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Team: Manchester United Where from: Manchester Favourite player: Best team moment: Solskjaer has won it and I was behind that very goal Interests: Timezone: (GMT) Western Europe Time, London, Lisbon, Casablanca |
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03 Sep 2020 21:19:17
I read a rumour that United are not going to be held to ransom over Sancho, they will wait a year. The worrying part of the rumour was they were willing to bring in someone on loan for a year whilst the situation is resolved, this may be a message to Dortmund of course. The rumour as to who they are looking for the years loan, is Bale, hence why he was even quoted as appealing to be given a chance to leave. Personally I think that chance should have gone but it's a rumour.
1.) 03 Sep 2020 21:42:10
I'm not a fan of Bale, he is clearly a very talented player. Yet his apparent attitude over the past few years has been awful. Refusing to take the medical advice of his club, his childish antics on the sideline, while his refusal to attempt to learn Spanish doesn't sit well. Plus when you factor in his age, his injury record and his wage demands it has Alexis Sanchez written all over it.
Yet, a loan deal might not be the worst idea. With Sancho seemingly unavailable, and with Greenwood pushing to start maybe bringing in a player who isn't a long term option might offer the club some experience in a key position, without blocking Greenwood.
It doesn't have to be Bale, there could be other options. Dembele at Barcelona for example. Both players who considering their cost and their injuries a permanent deal looks like a bad idea. Yet a loan could be worth exploring.
2.) 03 Sep 2020 21:53:47
Theres an update on dortmunds transfer plans on the european pages, situation remains the same as it has been.
No serious buyers for sancho at the moment, united won't pay the huge sums needed to sign him.
Time to move on alternatives i think, but i'm not sure there are any alternatives that really fit the bill as first team starters, might have to resort to cover for greenwood.
I wouldn't go in for bale, madrid created a problem for themselves by giving him a huge contract a few years ago and not letting him go to china last summer. I don't think its in uniteds interest to solve madrid or barcelonas issues.
3.) 03 Sep 2020 22:05:57
Shappy
I suggested Barcelona’s Dembele a few weeks ago. I would be concerned at Douglas Costa. There are rumours that Ole wants this Dayot chap but the transfer committee thinks he is too young. We shall see but deals need to be done.
4.) 03 Sep 2020 22:34:36
I’d love to see Bale for a season. But he isn’t really a suitable Sancho replacement, being LW. So Dembele seems a credible alternative if indeed the club are looking for a credible stopgap. The total Sancho cost at present is pure greed. They’ll be keener to deal as the prospect of him leaving for free draws a season closer. It’s a shame that all of that side has become to frequent these days. Don’t remember much player power in the heyday of Olsen and Strachan tearing down the flanks.
{Ed0666's Note - did strachan ever tear down a flank?
5.) 03 Sep 2020 22:41:46
Im torn on bale. He falls into the category of players i wish had signed for United. But that was some time ago. The ability is there still i don't doubt that but i doubt his drive and commitment to be as good as he can be.
I still think we will sign sancho but i could be wrong. The deal is there to be done and with the sums involved there will be compromises made by all parties imo.
6.) 03 Sep 2020 22:51:31
Dembele or Coman are good options.
Bale on a season loan is not the worst idea I’ve ever heard though until the Sancho desk can be done next year.
7.) 03 Sep 2020 22:52:06
I totally agree with Shappy. Bale seems to be the perfect case now . He allows us to spend more money at other positions and his injury record means that he will rotate with Mason at right wing. And if, and its a big if, he finds his form he will be one of the best in the league. If we can't find a solution with Sancho then Bale on a year loan its a very good option.
{Ed0666's Note - bale is a left winger no?
8.) 04 Sep 2020 00:47:50
I don't think ed666. He is effective at right cutting in and shot. He was a left wing back and left back at Spurs, maybe he can still play there but he isn't left winger. At Real Ronaldo was playing at the left and Bale at the right, although i think he is best suited at a free role behind the striker . I have seen him play there with his national team previous years and he was fantastic, a special player. If he comes i think he will start from right but he will be more centrally most of time.
{Ed0666's Note - okey dokey smoky.
9.) 04 Sep 2020 04:52:09
I wouldn't say Bale is the perfect case, just not an awful option on loan with the caveat that a chunk of his wages are performance related to make sure he is doing his best to be on the pitch.
There are dozens of players I would pick for our RW spot ahead of Bale.
I don't think we need to go for a big name player, I think in an ideal world Sancho would be an excellent signing based on age, ability, skillset with the bonus of being a homegrown player. Yet the reality is there is a huge cost attached to Sancho which might not be able to be surpassed to get the deal over the line. If the club feels that there is a genuine chance of getting the deal done next summer then a short term solution might be the best idea.
Invest in other areas this summer, bring in a loan option for RW. Then go all in for Sancho next summer when hopefully the club doesn't need to bring in quite so many players, and when the Sancho deal might be a little cheaper and more affordable. When all the uncertainty over C.V. has been cleared.
Personally I think depending on how Ole wants to play other RW options should be sought this summer. When I look at our squad, I think a more traditional RW might be a good idea, someone who can hug the touchline and stretch play. AWB is first choice RB, but isn't the most adventurous. I think having a LW like Rashford who will tuck in we could play a LB the bombs forward on the overlap and have a asymmetrical attack with the RB staying deeper and attacking width coming from the RW on the right.
If the club wanted to do that then the ideal candidate would be Adama Traore, although he would cost upward of 70m, maybe a better alternative could be Ismailia Sarr who could be available for half that amount and is maybe a year or so behind in his development compared to Traore, but has just as high a ceiling.
It all depends on what the club is looking for from a RW and whether the club feels that next summer is the best time to get Sancho if he is considered that highly by the club. Ultimately what we really need is a top class Sporting director who can make these calls and create an overarching vision for the club over a medium to long term.
10.) 04 Sep 2020 08:39:15
We need a right winger, why are we even discussing Bale?
11.) 04 Sep 2020 08:39:59
But are the golf courses in Manchester good enough to attract Bale?
12.) 04 Sep 2020 09:35:53
If Sancho is unobtainable my preferance would be going for Ocampos, thought he did a decent job against us.
13.) 04 Sep 2020 09:55:26
Dozens Shappy? :p
Can you list 24 players you would honestly rather have than Bale at RW?
14.) 04 Sep 2020 10:27:59
I don't blame Bale tbh, Zidane hardly been treating him fairly either, I'd sit on £600k a week if being benched or left out all the time too.
Not many can afford him or those that can do they need him, takes both parties to terminate a contract so what's Bale to do, sure he would play if treated fairly in the first place but way past that now.
15.) 04 Sep 2020 10:49:54
Personally I said weeks ago, that if we can’t deal with Dortmund and Sancho, I would look at Ousmane Dembele.
16.) 04 Sep 2020 10:59:26
I do like Dembele but he would seem to be one of the younger players Koeman might want to hang onto. And I think Messi will stay for a year and get his free transfer at the end.
17.) 04 Sep 2020 11:12:54
Did barcelona not say dembele is not for sale?
Only managed 5 league games last season has had a operation on his hamstring, be interesting to see if he can get past his injury issues. Bad injury for such a quick player.
{Ed002's Note - I would ignore such statements.}
18.) 04 Sep 2020 12:06:33
Jred
Barca have spent mountains of cash, such as on Dembele and Coutinho plus been paying Messi a very large salary.
I suspect Dembele may be someone they can realise cash on to help rebuild and I would be surprised if it was anywhere near the mountain of cash Sancho will require. I may be wrong but think Fati is the one they really want to keep.
19.) 04 Sep 2020 12:37:30
Redman
He also cost mega money and managed 5 league games last season .
Seriously torn hamstring for such a quick player, it will be interesting to see how he returns .
20.) 04 Sep 2020 13:10:54
Jred
He did cost mega money, as you put it and if they sell there will be a big loss on him.
Giggs had terrible hamstring issues but we found a way to resolve it, I think with Yoga. That’s why they have medicals.
21.) 04 Sep 2020 13:13:09
Spenno, I really don't want us to sign Bale permanently. I would just about accept a loan deal if half of his wages were as a bonus for making the match day squad. He has a terrible injury record, and has shown very little drive to play football over the past couple of seasons.
For that reason if we were looking to sign a player permanently Bale would be so far down the list there would be dozen's of players I'd choose ahead of him.
Sancho, Buendia, David Neres, Brooks, Tsygankov, Ismailia Sarr, Moussa Diaby, Kulusevski, Leon Bailey, Mahrez, Salah, Bernardo Silva, Ferran Torres, Chiesa, Gnabry, Adama Traore, Mbappe, Bergwijn, Stengs, Tete, Ziyech, Pulisic, Willian, Thorgan Hazard, Bernardeschi, Douglas Costa, Dybala, Lo Celso, Lucas Moura, Justin Klivert, Zaha, Richarlison, Odegaard, Lozano, Raphinha, Under, Zaniolo, Chukwueze, Hudson-Odoi, Dembele, Trincao, Fati, Bryan Mbeumo, Ihatteren and Messi.
All players who can play RW who I'd want more than Bale, a lot of them just won't be available such as Mbappe for example. Some are very young and probably aren't ready for the EPL such as Ihatteren. While others are good solid players without being anything special such as Lucas Moura.
All however I feel would be better signings than Bale.
22.) 04 Sep 2020 13:29:21
Redman
Owen would be a better example similar injury as opposed to giggs persistent injuries .
I like dembele, great to watch but there will be question marks about his latest injuries.
23.) 04 Sep 2020 13:29:21
Redman
Owen would be a better example similar injury as opposed to giggs persistent injuries .
I like dembele, great to watch but there will be question marks about his latest injuries.
24.) 04 Sep 2020 14:16:06
Shappy I was assuming they would all be realistic and obtainable alternatives, think only a handful of those would be. But I get the point re: Bale.
25.) 04 Sep 2020 14:57:22
Bale doesn't even like playing football. He gets £600k a week to play his preferred game of golf in the sun. Why would he leave the golf course and come to rainy Manchester?
26.) 04 Sep 2020 14:57:31
Spenno, conservatively I think around 27 of them could be realistically obtainable.
27.) 04 Sep 2020 15:11:42
Thank god for Google, hey Shappy.
Complete bolloxology again.
28.) 04 Sep 2020 21:43:47
Betty, I don't need Google, I'm a full time student so I have plenty of time on my hands to watch plenty of football.
The thing with Bale is just about any player is better than him as they actually want to play football. His injury record is atrocious, his game relies on explosive speed, which is causing his injuries. He expects to earn 600k per week and only wants to play golf.
29.) 04 Sep 2020 23:17:26
Why do people feel sancho will be cheaper in a years time, it's a genuine question .
I've always rated bale but that ship surely has sailed . I'd have liked him 3 year ago not now . He seems Madrids answer to sanchez, large wages no takers if a fee is involved or he duznt have a rethink on wages but if you were him would you.
30.) 05 Sep 2020 08:15:11
Slate it's not about him being cheaper in a year's time. Although I vaguely remember someone saying something about agent fees might becoming under some kind of legislation for next year which might bring them down. But that's neither here or there in the grand scheme of things.
The issue isn't spending that amount of money, it's spending that amount of money while there is so much uncertainty around football currently due to the events of this year.
No one knows when fans can come back to stadiums, the financial hits of this year haven't been fully felt yet and how that knocks on to next year. What if there is another stoppage in sport? How will what has happened effect sponsorship deals moving forward. While club's are concerned about image, spending 120m on a player while several million people have lost their job and the country has gone in to a deep recession, can reflect negatively on the club. Speaking of recession, the Glazers took over the club in 2005, then the 2008 global recession happened which meant the club had to borrow further, along with the additional interest increased the debt by around 300m and meant that 12 years later the debt still hasn't been paid off. So the club has been stung by global recessions in the past.
Until there is more certainty sanctioning such a large spend in one player isn't something the club can do out of hand. Due diligence needs to be done, along with making sure the deal is as good as possible for the club in terms of bringing the fee down and spreading the the cost.
31.) 05 Sep 2020 10:39:44
Wouldn't touch Dembele personally.
32.) 05 Sep 2020 17:15:23
I'm guessing then shappy that if the 120 million you quote was spent on say 4 other players youd be just as against it what with the financial uncertainty and people losing jobs and other things you mention otherwise your simply saying youd spend it differently .
33.) 05 Sep 2020 18:10:43
Slate, I'm not saying I'm against the club spending 120m or 200m. If the club has it and can afford it then fine.
What I'm saying is there is a concern about spending so much money on one player.
Like I've said, I would be happy if we get Sancho, he looks one hell of a player. Yet I would have a concern if the club were to put all their eggs into one basket. If Sancho was our only summer signing I'd have concerns. However, we have signed DvdB already. If Donny and Sancho were our only two summer signings then fine. However, I'd have concern over our defence, I think we could do with a couple of quality signings in defence.
31 May 2020 15:03:20
Saul Niguez has apparently said he will announce his new club in 3 days. Will be interesting to see where that is.
1.) 31 May 2020 15:15:26
He looks City bound, i think he'll fit in any Pep side.
2.) 31 May 2020 15:56:54
Im not sure how reliable that teller is redman. hope your well.
If he is announcing it in 3 days then its been kept very quiet wherever he is going.
My guess would be city although i really hope its us. He is one of the top midfielders in Europe imo. If pogba where to go saul can replace most of his qualities and add more.
Saul and sancho and ighalo in this window would be the stuff of dreams.
Maybe get a player in return for pogba that could add depth.
Grealish is another target according to ed002 and the club are keen on him and Bellingham so saul is probably less likely.
3.) 31 May 2020 16:43:56
Hi Ken
I am well thanks, but not everyone in my family is, but we shall see on that. Sat drinking vino in the garden.
Someone said this was similar to what Griezmann did. It seems strange announcing it that way.
It would be interesting to see Ed02’s view on Saul and where he is going or if he is at all?
4.) 31 May 2020 17:34:47
It's his new e-Sports team.
5.) 31 May 2020 17:41:21
Fabrizio Romano has said this has nothing to do with a transfer.
Which seems to make sense. Saul has always appeared pretty commited to Atletico, at least publicly. I can't imagine he would announce himself leaving before the season is finished.
I'm expecting some sort of sponsorship or the other to be announced.
6.) 31 May 2020 17:47:50
Saul is a top class player and would fit in well in pretty much any side. If it was United he is due to sign for, that would surely signal the club are confident that Pogba will leave this summer? Even though the club appear to be dicking about in letting him leave.
7.) 31 May 2020 21:04:47
When do we ever announce a signing this early?
It will be a sponsor.
8.) 31 May 2020 22:48:25
Following United on twitter Orr instagram now apparently 👀👀 that 100% means were nailed on to sign him 😂😂😂.
9.) 01 Jun 2020 09:35:03
People will grab hold of anything, fair play to him for playing everybody like this and getting attention on himself, madness what people believe.
10.) 01 Jun 2020 10:02:17
I am sure the Atletico fans are really pleased with the circus he's created around him. Straight away i have been put off him. Sounds like he's feeling sorry for himself and is suffering from lack of attention due to lockdown bless him.
11.) 01 Jun 2020 15:38:11
Nothing official from athletico madrid or from any other club. so is take it with a massive pinch of salt.
Im sure any club sending that sort of money will want to maximise the coverage and to their unveiling.
Sounds like a load of BS to me.
Him and sancho are the dream signings this summer. Along with ighalo they would breath new life into this team. With maybe another player coming in to boost the squad in any deal for pogba. The likes of raibot would increase competition.
18 Oct 2019 07:02:23
Interesting seeing photos of Pogba and Zidane meet in Dubai and apparently chat for 10 mins, a coincidence meeting on the beach.
1.) 18 Oct 2019 07:34:54
I couldn't care less. Le Sulk can move to RM. I doubt we would notice he had left.
2.) 18 Oct 2019 08:54:50
We need quality but we also need 100% commitment from everyone. The reason we are in this mess is the lack of desire and pride for the shirt. Pogbas a good player but doesn't have the mentality we need. Time to go.
3.) 18 Oct 2019 12:24:27
Yh i agree if our new recruitment plan under ole is to bring in players with limited technical ability and do their best work off the ball but with more passion and work rate then pogba doesn't really fit in.
4.) 18 Oct 2019 14:04:23
I like to try and be more realistic in what I expect from footballers. I don't expect them to have an undying love and passion for the club, that's the fans job.
If they do then that's a bonus.
What I expect is for a footballer to be professional, as that is what they are, professionals.
I expect them to work hard, look to develop their skills and be committed to the team. They don't need to love the club.
But they need to respect their position, they need to respect their team mates and they need to respect their manager and coaches.
Without seeing how Pogba is in training it is hard to say if he is showing that. Yet his on field performances are often inconsistent at best which suggests he isn't working as hard as he should be. He has all the talent to be a top player, but does he have the drive and application?
If he wants to be elsewhere, then fine. I won't hold a grudge, but he needs to being working hard for his team mates or eventually they will turn against him.
I think Ed002 was right on the money again with Pogba, his career belongs in Spain or back in Italy. Yet with Juventus having 7 midfielders on the books (Ramesey, Pjanic, Khedira, Can, Raboit, Matuidi and Bentancur) I don't see a place for him unless several leave. Real Madrid's interest seems to stem from Zidane, who himself might not be there all that much longer with Jose apparently a possible replacement. His options might be growing thin. With Barcelona having recently signed Frenkie De Jong and Arthur, they are unlikely to look to spend the 150m+ it would take to bring him in, plus they have wage limitations unless they can shift one or two big earners. Ultimately PSG might be the best possible escape route for him. With both Real Madrid and Barcelona circling for Mbappe and Neymar respectively PSG might have some funds to reinvest and they have shown an appetite to try and bring in some of the best French players in the world.
So, I feel PSG might be the place he ends up next, either that or he will sign a new increased long term deal with us.
5.) 18 Oct 2019 14:34:03
you can count on one hand the number of top performances pogba has produced for us. you can say its because of the talent around him but i don't think that's totally accurate. Pogba has immense talent, however there are games where he doesn't even do the simple things well (pass to a team mate, control the ball, track a runner) . like the above post i don't expect him to die for the shirt but I expect him to put a shift in. Our problem is that our players are either short on talent, high on workrate or high on talent and short on effort.
This may all be a result of him being demoralised and wanting to leave, thus affecting his performances. whatever the reason a move away may be best for all parties.
6.) 18 Oct 2019 20:23:51
The reality is Pobga has no support around him, literally nothing. We play mostly rubbish football, I'm not shocked he doesn't enjoy himself. We have 4 average midfielders that create nothing/ do anything to support him. Pobga, as he has shown with France and Juve, with quality players around him, he is also a quality player. We are a team devoid of forward talent, quality or movement, or tactical knowledge form the sideline.
I implore anyone to play midfield in a team like this and excel as a creative player. It just doesn't happen at the highest level. Yeah he has rubbish games, yeah his good ones are not frequent enough but he is still the only one of those midfielders that comes close to being on an high level (couldn't consider him world class or elite) .
7.) 18 Oct 2019 20:33:01
That's the thing MrGoodKat, he has played better at Juventus and with France. Yet, he has been just as inconsistent with both his previous club and his national side.
8.) 18 Oct 2019 20:58:24
I agree, he goes missing - but he is still clearly the best midfielder we have, and the sad thing is, it's by a long way. It's good to see McTominay play for the shirt but lacks any real quality (in terms of what we expect a Man Utd player to be), Matic lacks mobility and any real influence on the game and Fred lacks everything technical about a footballer.
I disagree with the "Pogba doesn't track back etc" complaints. What I really want from him is to create something, get on the ball, run forward. Play to strengths and not square pegs round holes situation. I want United to but some players that have a dedicated position in the front 4. To be able to say, with confidence that this is the best player to play Striker or Right Wing or Attacking Mid.
9.) 19 Oct 2019 07:56:16
That's the annoying thing with Pogba, he isn't just our most talented midfielder by a long way. He has more talent than 95% of all midfielders anywhere.
He does track back, but he is even more inconsistent with his defensive work than he is with his more expansive and creative work. My issue is even when he does track back he doesn't do so with any purpose. He jogs back and never looks like he is going to attempt to put a tackle or a block in.
The fact that over his time at United he averages 0.8 tackles per game shows his lack of desire to do the dirty work.
To be honest I'm not too bothered about that. Not all midfielders need to be crunching in tackles. What disappoints me with Pogba is that he at 27 is still so inconsistent with the parts of the game he does enjoy. His passing, shooting and chance creation some games is world class, while woeful in others.
He reminds me a bit of Nani, a player on his day is unplayable and will win you games on his own. However, "his day" might only be one game a month, in the others he is distinctly average.
15 Oct 2019 06:38:15
There have been rumours for a few days that Kevin, one of the Glazers was selling up, that he had swapped his B voting shares for A shares. I was told a couple of days ago the B shares can't be sold. Now there are reports in the main press that Kevin Glazer has transferred his 13% to A shares and is looking to sell. According to the press several others want to sell up too. Hopefully it is the beginning of the end of them, although it is said two of the family don't want to sell.
1.) 15 Oct 2019 07:20:27
Yeah Red Man.
Multiple news channels reporting the same.
2.) 15 Oct 2019 07:37:48
I would not be surprised if they are selling to family? Maybe someone wants more power?
3.) 15 Oct 2019 12:02:01
So how does this work then? If the individual share holders sell up and shares are sold on the stock market, how will that change anything in the future? Won't the shareholders just keep getting dividends? How is that any different to how it is now?
4.) 15 Oct 2019 13:36:41
Nothing actually concrete has happened redman, 1 guy is selling but it just means more control over utd for the other glazers.
5.) 15 Oct 2019 16:55:43
If one's had enough then its a start.
6.) 15 Oct 2019 18:02:04
Apparently being denied now. ☹️.
08 Oct 2019 10:40:04
Rumour, The morale in the dressing room is at the lowest for the past ten months with observers claiming there is a lack of energy which is 'sapping' spirits at Carrington.
{Ed007's Note - Who ya gonna call.......
1.) 08 Oct 2019 12:25:02
Love it Bond.
2.) 08 Oct 2019 15:17:04
you could see how bad the morale is in david de gea, s interview after sundays game.
3.) 08 Oct 2019 18:11:02
Dea gea was right though we can't even score.
We have a decent defence but that's what were relying on to get us points
The midfield and attack have to step up.
I'm still amused as to why we keep playing possession football. let the other teams have the ball then break.
We have speed up top but we are not using are best assets atm.
4.) 09 Oct 2019 06:16:56
He is rightfully disgusted.
We are short of a prolific goal scorer.
5.) 09 Oct 2019 19:12:58
TrueRedDevil, i would give my left nut just for a goal scorer. Both for a prolific one!
6.) 12 Oct 2019 15:50:37
Poor comment un an interview from DDG. He would have better saying that when the team isn't scoring there is more pressure on saving shots like the Newcastle one.
Red Man's banter posts with other poster's replies to Red Man's banter posts
18 Sep 2020 11:31:55
In all the frustration over lack of signings I think we should all ask ourselves, What was United's plan and if there was a plan, how have we performed with two days to the start of the season?
If there was a plan surely it must have included timing. After the positive finish to the season, surely they should have realised build early and prepare for the new season, arrive at the first game with the players wanted being integrated and settled. Look to make a strong start.
Now here we are and who knows who is coming, the first game a couple of days away and to me the momentum seems to have slowed on the altar of trying to save money. I can understand plan B, but it just looks all confused. If we had a plan, then it should have been costed, budgeted and implemented early. The C.V. situation may affect finances but surely the financial plans would have been formed weeks ago.
Now we just look a bunch of rag tag amateurs, moving from option to option. Next who would be surprised at Douglas Costa, with a spiel about how he was always an option. It also appears we aren't selling so the net sales may not be so good.
Right now it feels like we have gone from the positivity of last season to frustration. There is still time but the kids they bought are years off, if we are lucky and it has the hallmark of not wanting to go too far, which is a missed opportunity. We should have had dynamic plans but look like dithering.
1.) 18 Sep 2020 11:46:45
Funny Red Man how only United have their finances in a twist due to C. V while Chelsea are splashing. I heard Aston Villa have spent more than us. Fans need to chip in with 10 quid each to support our poor owners.
2.) 18 Sep 2020 11:48:33
Red Man - We are linked to every player and probably 99% is rubbish. We were never in for Bale, we were never in for Sergio Reguilon, we never made an approach for Thiago. The amount of crap that the rags publish about Man United is laughable and it is all the sell there paper.
Only Ed and Ole know what targets they want, nobody else. I think they will surprise a few people and still bring in 1 maybe 2 players. I am still convinced that they will get Sancho, if they do i think he will be the last one in due to the expense.
3.) 18 Sep 2020 11:53:50
There seems to be a genuine lack of planning to challenge at the top.
The teams around us are improving their squad and we haven't even improved our starting XI.
It pains to see another manager not being backed.
Hopefully we don't do any panic signings such as Costa. We will then be left with another aging, injury prone player with huge wages.
4.) 18 Sep 2020 13:03:54
Simo
Surely we know the price for players (Ed said we know what is required on Sancho) and if it is over what we would like to pay we have to take into account paying a premium for having them available for the first game.
Sure they know who they want, but if they just keep going until they pay what the other club quoted in the first place, and in the meantime we drop points that’s not planning. How much could 2 points mean if it is the difference between CL and EL?
5.) 18 Sep 2020 13:44:24
Red Man - For me it's Sancho or bust now! Anything else just reeks of panic!
What the decision makers at the Club don't seem to realise is by not dealing with the Sancho situation decisively they have only succeeded in drawing yet more negatively to the Club before a ball has even been kicked. It's yet another summer where Man Utd are the laughing stock of European football.
I think everybody could understand if the Club deemed Sancho too expensive and moved on to other targets however it's the arrogance and stupidity of the negotiators that continue to relentlessly pursue a deal thinking Dortmund will somehow lower their demands that truly blows the mind.
I keep reading in the media that Club officials are frustrated with other Clubs and agents using Utd to generate interest in players but the fact this keeps happening with such regularity only emphasis the chaos behind the scenes. The fact we haven't signed a RW, LB or even CB means Utd can be used in this way. Nobody knows if Utd will eventually pay the money for Sancho. To be honest I don't even think the Club know yet. I get the impression it could be decided with the flip of a coin. The length of time this has now dragged on its no longer a foregone conclusion that Dortmund would even accept an offer should it arrive! Why should they now sell one of their best players without the time to get a replacement and risk sabotaging their own season?!
If Sancho does not arrive the Club will only have succeeded in undermining yet another manager and I feel for Ole moving forward.
Some posters believe Ole is out of his depth but I think we have yet more evidence that any manager would struggle to succeed under the current structure at the Club.
6.) 18 Sep 2020 13:53:42
Red Man - How do you know that they having planned anything? And how do you know we are going to drop points?
7.) 18 Sep 2020 14:04:25
Shan didn't someone informed you about Chelseas ban and the sales they did? Because your example is Chelsea to prove your point. What about the examples of Real Barcelona Liverpool, they haven't their finances in a twist due to CV?
In fact in 2020 we have already gave 100 millions for transfers, i don't think many teams have spend more money net. And we would have gave closer to 250-260 if we could buy Sancho which clearly want, and maybe we will buy him. Money was never a problem in this club, Ed002 said that we are a cash rich club, we can buy players even now with the CV uncertainties.
Red man when we speak about transfers of 150+ millions, players that can come here and be with us for over 5 years like Sancho, you can't be thinking about the 1 or 2 matches they miss at the start of the campaign. Its not working like that. As you say we must throw all the money and not negotiate for what? For having him for one more match. You can't be serious.
8.) 18 Sep 2020 15:21:56
Herrera i also mentioned Aston Villa. Did you deliberately miss reading that? Or are you saying you are happy with the current situation? And what about Sales? Who stopped the current incharge from selling?
If it takes 2 months to negotiate a player, then these people should retire.
9.) 18 Sep 2020 15:19:59
Herrera
We don’t just need a forward
If we pay what we would have had to pay 4 weeks ago for Sancho ( and I am not sure he is worth that much and probably would have looked elsewhere by now) then it would be a waste of 4 weeks or more of integration time. Ed says we know what is needed, if so pay or move on. If Woodward comes out waving a piece of paper saying he has got a big discount fine, but if it is what Dortmund want then it was just a waste of weeks. What about the other positions? I can understand it with a purchase like Sancho, high end but if we need a CB, Holding CM, LB surely there was a plan for it. Remember I have seen us get players on the last day before but that is one, not 3. We may not lose points but if we do they may be vital whilst dithering over the price.
10.) 18 Sep 2020 16:14:51
Red Man maybe we don't drop points and save 20 millions, who knows? . that's the reason its not working like that.
When you are negotiating such a big deal you see the bigger picture, not the 1-2 matches a player can miss in the start of the campaign.
Shan Villa outspend Liverpool too, maybe some others top teams too. Its not a good example saying they outspend us for a transfer window. Its like saying "oh look even Montpelier and Nice outspend Pari this year". I believe that you can understand that means nothing. For different reasons (its not for this topic) a smaller club can throw a lot of money and even outspend bigger clubs for a small amount of time (a transfer window or two) .
When we compare, we must compare teams with common characteristics. Liverpool for example have a fine roster and with less positions to strength than for example Everton or Villa. Or Pari, they have broken the bank the previous years, they have a top roster, you will say that they don't want to spend because for one year maybe Nice will outspend them? Be serious. What about Sevilla or Sosiedad overspending Real Madrid for ONE year? Yet Madrid next year will be able to buy Mpambe and will superpass Sosiedads last 5 years spend. Yet when we will be able to buy the big player (Sancho) we will superpass Aston Villas spending at once.
So we must compare same situations and for a certain amount of time in order to make a good and fair comparison.
Unless you believe that because yesterday i bought a car i outspended Bill Gates. Oh, in fact maybe i did it but it means nothing 😅 It only means that yesterday i bought a car and Bill will buy one at different time and much much more expensive. Sounds familiar with the Aston Villa case?
11.) 18 Sep 2020 16:28:27
Herrera that is a funny comparision.
PSG are Ligue 1 winners and CL finalists. Their squad has genuine world class players. So it's understandable if they don't spend.
On the other hand, We scrapped for third spot. There's a big difference.
We have some glaring deficiencies in the squad and therefore money needs to be spent to address them.
12.) 18 Sep 2020 17:00:04
Its as funny as saying Villa outspend us TRD. The point is simple, the intention is there and if (and when) we can take our primary targets then we will outspend almost everyone. Real Madrid when (rather than if) can buy her primary targets then they will outspend almost everyone.
Big teams have different plans, huge targets. Sometimes they must wait some months or a year to take them. Real can't get Empampe this year doent mean they instead give these money for other players, they will just wait and take who they want, the same goes with Sancho, at least that is what our intentions are. For such huge transfers there can't be a good plan b because none player ticks all boxes for them (with Empampe) and no player ticks all boxes for us (Sancho) . So unless we take our primary targets some teams will outspend us in short term. But as i said that's natural and means nothing. That's the point.
13.) 18 Sep 2020 17:40:56
If only intentions were enough for league titles and champions league trophies. All those teams Herrera have a much better squad so they don't really need strengthening whilst we are playing catch up. Standing still is good but when the teams below you start moving forward you will see that you are actually moving backwards. You say Real Madrid haven't spent, weren't they La Liga champions this year? You realize Real have more CL titles in the last decade than our total trophy haul in the same period.
I didn't say we have to buy Sancho, but we need to strengthen and there are many options but the people incharge need to start moving. In case you didn't know, our season starts tomorrow. So where is the "intention" you speak of?
14.) 18 Sep 2020 19:12:24
I gave you an example of how a smaller team can outspend you short term and how that is normal. And that you can't take this into conversation because means nothing. You don't seem to want to understand this.
But if you don't see the intention from the team that are second spenders the last 10 years, nobody can help you. Not even the facts. There are questions about how effective we are, how good our recruitment team is etc. But you can't question our intentions. The intention is to spend big on one more time as we did over and over again in our history.
One last thing for me. The team had clearly targets, an AM for squad depth and Sancho . One more player that would be plus. that's what the club trying to do.
You would only be satisfied if, the moment Sancho became difficult to take, the team instead went out and bought 2-3 other players which would be out of our plan with the danger of panic buying. The team think that Sancho ticks all boxes, he is the one to take us to the next level and we can't afford to lose him. They want to try all possibilities to buy him. To go out and buy 3 others players instead means that we give up on Sancho and that is exactly what the club don't want to do.
In the same time because except from him we already have bought Bruno for a good sum of money, because we have bought VDB, because we want a left back too and because of C.V. we are trying to reduse the price or (and) to agree some instalments. You seem to be affected too much with which others teams do. We have other targets, in other areas and a completely different plan to others. Because you say that we want a center back or a numper 6 doesn't mean that Ole thinks the same, some of this positions are "ticked" for next seasons . Yet if we will not buy a CB you will moan, even if this was not our plan for this year. So judge the team with certain criteria based on the real targets. Because as i see it you move the goal posts and if we take this path none will be satisfied. that's a big post and i am sorry. Personally taking into account that they wanted an AM and Sancho i will judge then based on that. Do i want to buy players in other positions too? Ofcourse, but i will not moan because with Bruno, DVB and if Sancho comes that means over 250 millions in 2020 and with the C.V. unsertainsy. But then if they lose our first two matches of the season where are the intentions?
15.) 18 Sep 2020 19:54:23
we look like we have played 60 games after 10 games. so we need decent reinforcments because he does not trust who is on the bench. either that or better fitness coaches.
14 Sep 2020 16:28:29
Just so you are aware of the impact of our debts. United have paid £209m in last 5 years to fund the Glazers' ownership structure: £120m interest plus £89m dividends. In the last 10 years they spent £838m on financing: £488m interest, £251m debt repayments and £99m dividends.
1.) 14 Sep 2020 16:58:07
But now the club are worried about financial stability and want to ensure the clubs future. want to ensure they still get their payments more like. Those numbers are shocking and disgraceful.
2.) 14 Sep 2020 18:49:05
It is absolutly apauling Red Man, just think what and where could be if we had owners who were interested and the club was progressive and did things correctly.
Makes it even more frustating with how we handle transfers and the codition of certain parts of the stadium.
Cannot wait for them to sell up. Who knows when that will be though with their valuation.
3.) 14 Sep 2020 18:03:54
So why weren't we spending 200m a season before the Glazers took over then?
The answer is in two parts. Firstly under Glazer ownership we have seen a massive hike in revenue from TV and sponsorship. Not all can be credited to the Glazers, the TV money deals aren't negotiated by the club. But the plethora of of sponsorship deals bringing huge sums into the club have been a part of the Glazer plan and ownership.
Secondly, before Glazer ownership we had a large number of owners all of which received dividends every year. The issue is that under that type of ownership it would require a large number of people to vote against receiving a dividend in order to redistribute club funds towards transfers or improvements of the stadium or training facilities.
While the debt also means that a huge amount of club finances aren't leaving the club as taxes.
It's easy to look at the figures and think what could be if we didn't have the debt. But the reality is that without the debt a lot of that money that has gone on interest would have just left the club as taxes and dividends and very little of it would have worked it's way back to transfer fees and new stadium roofs.
The reality is that the club have outspent most clubs in the world over the past 7 years, spending close to £1bn. Sadly most of it has been wasted through poor management or as the Ed's might say amateurish running of the club. Bowing to fan pressure, not having a clear plan, not having the best people in key positions up and down the club. That isn't a lack of investment, but a lack of understanding.
Ironically maybe if the Glazers had a more hands on approach they might see some of the issues and fix them. For them the club is a 3.8bn assets they own, which gives them flexibility in their other financial ventures while requiring little to no input either financially or in terms of time. Consider them a holding company, owning but not being involved. Things will change if we get new owners, but not necessarily for the better. We could be bought by assert strippers, or as a play thing for a rich and powerful business person. Something to be picked up and paraded around until they get bored and move on to the next thing, only to be left on the shelf to gather dust.
4.) 14 Sep 2020 20:24:04
Shappy I was going to post very similar thoughts. We are spending the same or more than we did at any time, the club is worth just as much as it was in the past, always in top 3 worth over £3 Billion. Just think if we had Mike Ashley as owner.
5.) 14 Sep 2020 23:03:48
Another Great post Shappy. On the nose.
6.) 15 Sep 2020 02:36:07
what a load of bs shappy, the money that utd spent on interest was money that would have been earmarked in every budget for interest. Had we no debt, much if not most of it would then have been utilized in other areas, transfers, coaching staff, training ground and stadium improvements etc. So suggest that a club like utd would have no clue what to do with millions of $ every year and would just let it sit in the bank and pay taxes and dividend on it is beyond stupid.
7.) 15 Sep 2020 07:58:34
CSM, if the money didn't have to go on interest or debt repayment can you give me a reasonable reason for why the Glazers would choose to funnel that money towards the club rather than into their own pockets in the form of dividends?
Fans talk as if that money would have been used for us to sign Messi, Bale, Kroos, Ramos etc. But what evidence have they got that suggests the Glazers plan for he club is to spend all the money the club makes back on the club and not take the profit from their business as dividends?
Also without the debt the club would have to pay significant amounts in taxes which would decrease the amount of profit.
Simply put only one or two teams have out spent us over the past 10 years. The fact is that it has been spent very poorly. Had the 1bn or so that we have spent be used more wisely then we would have a squad on par With that of Man City, a better squad and arguably first team than Liverpool. That's without any more investment than we have had, just not wasting it on poor buys.
Mata (a player I really like) cost us 12m more than Liverpool paid for Suarez. Mata will leave for free or a nominal fee, while Liverpool sold Suarez for a huge profit. Hell Fallaini cost more than Suarez.
Mata was also one of the less disastrous transfers.
Our major issue hasn't been how much money we have spent on debt repayment or interest. It is how much we have wasted on poor buys from a club without direction or leadership. A lack of quality in the boardroom and the upper levels of management at the club.
8.) 15 Sep 2020 08:19:55
Shappy they would have to funnel to the club because only so much can be paid to directors via fees etc, dividends are after tax, woodward is a nincompoop when it comes to anything football but even he won't be stupid enough to just let the club pay high taxes on profits, one of the big reasons utd have seen no infrastructure development at OT is because those require big expenditure, expenditure we had going towards interest. Even woodward with his all his incompetence would have shown glazers that sums spent there would lead to higher incomes which would lead to higher dividends for the glazers.
The billion dollar waste you point to are the best eg. of that, glazers could easily have muzzled woodward's sprees if they so chose, but they clearly didn't. They want their director fees and good dividend, they don't care what utd do with the rest of the money.
9.) 15 Sep 2020 12:24:43
So what you're saying is that the Glazers have taken 99m out in dividends over a 10 year period. Less than 10m a year or around the same amount the club pay Juan Mata.
While 1bn has been spent on debt. However if the club didn't have to spend that money on debt then they would have spent it on what?
Do you really think that the club owners consider 10m a year between 5 or 6 of them btw is a good return?
Of course not. If they could have had more money out then they would have done. They are investors after all and the most important aspect is how much they can make.
They could have taken more out and not spent it on Di Maria, or Pogba or Lukaku and doubled the amount of money they have made personally. But they didn't, they allowed the club to spend huge sums of money. 1bn spent of transfer fees in 10 years, goodness knows how much on agents fees and taxes to make those transfers happen. While also committing to having the second largest wages bill in world football.
The position we find ourselves in has nothing to do with the debt, or how the owners have managed the finances of the club. They have made huge sums available for transfers and they have paid huge wages as well.
The problem has and continues to be the people running the club have no long term vision, aren't qualified or at least aren't the best people to be doing so. Blame the Glazers for that by all means, but you can't say they haven't given the club the money to be successful.
10.) 15 Sep 2020 13:15:43
Shappy they haven't given us any money, the money we spend on interest and the money we spend on transfers is utd's own earned money.
I do not disagree with what you are saying about the lack of planning from the chinless wonder, but to the assertion you made in the original post that the had there been no debt the money used for debt would have just been taxes and dividend and wouldn't have been used for anything beneficial to utd.
11.) 15 Sep 2020 13:41:05
Good post, Red Man. Always good to have a reminder.
12.) 15 Sep 2020 19:12:36
Shappy,
Nonsense
Pre Glazers, as an example, we bought Rio Ferdinand for a world record fee for a defender, Rooney another.
Before the Glazers the Plc, who I was not keen on, yet we had no debt, funded the last major stadium work, it was money the Plc provided, that rebuilt the stadium. Since the Glazers arrived, nothing.
Justifying the debt on the basis of tax efficiency, that really is nonsense. Leverage can benefit a business but it depends what the money is spent on, this debt gave the club nothing.
Lastly “consider them a holding company, owning but not being involved”. They take millions in dividends so are very much involved. The £3.8Bn valuation, does absolutely nothing for any of us, only the Glazers Who will benefit when they sell.
13.) 16 Sep 2020 11:23:33
CSM, the Glazers own the club, all money made by the club can potentially be claimed by the Glazers as theirs.
If you own a business and reinvest the money the business makes back into the business then that is still your investment. As fans we need to get our head around that.
We can't ring fence the money the club makes and the Glazers as separate entities. The Glazers own the club, all club assets, the stadium, the training ground, the offices, the players etc are under the ownership of the Glazers. All money the club makes is owned by the Glazers. If it is redirected back into the club then that is the decision of the Glazers, if it goes out of the club into their pockets then that is their prerogative.
Manchester United doesn't own the money it makes.
14.) 17 Sep 2020 17:48:06
I am looking forward to Shappy providing details of the money the Glazers have given the club.
10 Sep 2020 09:05:04
Filip Stevanovic
"Filip Stevanović is one of the most talented players I've ever seen in my life. "So said iconic FK Partizan head coach Savo Milosević, a man who played alongside the likes of the iconic Dejan Savićević, Interpersononale legend Dejan Stanković, free-kick special-ist Sinisa Mihajlović, and former Real Madrid forward Predrag Mijatović, during a storied career.
There is a fascinating piece on scoutedftbl that is worth a read.
Let's hope he is coming to us.
1.) 10 Sep 2020 09:49:12
Fingers crossed red man.
2.) 10 Sep 2020 10:28:06
Ed has said we'll know by the end of the month. Player is 17 so cannot transfer to Europe before he turns 18 which means a loan back to partizan could not be completed until after that date either I think this one might already be done.
3.) 10 Sep 2020 10:39:53
Yeah I read that yesterday, he certainly seems very highly rated. If he signs let's hope he settles well and he can make good on that potential.
We have made a huge push to bring young players from Europe in. Brexit being the driver clearly.
However, hopefully that could have a benefit for the lads already in the academy. With so many young players joining who will need to settle and won't be eligible for a loan. That should mean most of the lads old enough to head out on loan will do to make space for the new lads.
A good loan move can be the making or breaking of a young players career. Beckham joining Preston was his spring board to the first team.
Personally I think Garner, Chong and Gomes should have went out on loans last season. That probably has cost us Gomes. Chong and Levitt have left on loans, and Garner looks like following soon.
4.) 10 Sep 2020 10:52:00
Red Man - this kid looks the business, he looks a fantastic talent. We are getting some great young players in, the future looks bright.
5.) 10 Sep 2020 11:42:18
Never impressed with Chong whenever I saw him, certainly not as a United player which doesn't mean to say he wouldn't be half decent elsewhere and have a career. Credit where its due he is getting some nice reviews at the moment so good on him for his attitude, easy for a youngster to think its beneath them as they are a "united player" when they go out on loan.
6.) 10 Sep 2020 11:49:11
Could be the next Messi. Could also be the next macheda.
7.) 10 Sep 2020 11:56:43
Sim01975
You never know how or if they will develop. Usually around 18 they start to develop but mentally as well as physically. If they don’t get the mental side right they may not make the step up. There have been many many promising kids that just never took the step up. Greenwood has taken the step up but there are warning signs. Its not just the nonsense in Norway we should be worried about, there are other press reports which indicate he may have become a bit arrogant. Fine dividing line at that age between confidence and arrogance. SAF would likely have sorted it quickly, but we need to consider the transition from promising kid to first team star carefully and ensure support is there.
If we get a couple through to first team regulars from all these purchases we will have succeeded.
8.) 10 Sep 2020 14:12:45
Red Man - very true what you say is correct. If he does sign for us let's hope that he reaches his full potential along with the others that we signed.
9.) 10 Sep 2020 19:04:41
Cost us Gomes? Hardly worth losing sleep over, wasn’t overly impressed with him and doubt we will be hearing his name any time soon.
10.) 10 Sep 2020 22:09:09
Agree with whiskey, I like gomes but can't see him making it's anytime soon, should have stayed and gone on loan imo, but he made his decision and wish him the best, but have a feeling he will drift off the radar at lille. I have faith in chong I think he will end up having a chance with us and taking it, his loan will make him a much better player and give him some confidence which he needed.
11.) 10 Sep 2020 22:56:44
Agreed on Gomes. He may prove us all wrong when he grows up. As for Chong, I reallyrate him. He’s not yet set the world alight, but not yet had the chance to either at United. A good solid loan in Germany will be great for his career either with us or for a perm move to the Bundesliga.
09 Sep 2020 12:58:30
Interesting times
We have apparently signed 16 year old Alejandro Garnacho, one of the 'jewels' in Atletico Madrid's youth team, he is a highly thought of striker. We fended off interest from Real Madrid and Borussia Dortmund.
We have been buying some young 16/ 17 year old talent recently including a RB from Barcelona and a LB from Real Madrid. The lad Filip Stevanovic at Partizan Belgrade is also rumoured to have signed. The Ed said wait until the end of September on that (his birthday is 25th Sept) . The Ed also said this is the last time we can do this with young talent before rules change.
On the outside it appears the club has gone at this aggressively, if it comes off the benefits could be spectacular. We won't know for a couple of years, they are all young but whilst we appear indecisive on the big senior deals at times, it looks like we have gone strongly at the international youth talent.
1.) 09 Sep 2020 13:45:53
Its maybe the fact there aren't a 100 false click bait headlines a day when it comes to youth recruitment.
{Ed002's Note - This is the last opportunity to buy 16 and 17 year old players from Europe.}
2.) 09 Sep 2020 13:46:27
It's a good thing red man. Of course they are only children and there is a lot of growing in them as people before they can prove it at senior level. But it is very positive.
I missed what ed said about stevanovic. I know he's a cracking young player but are we to sign him?
3.) 09 Sep 2020 14:08:42
Not sure what that's got to do with it jerd.
4.) 09 Sep 2020 14:13:23
Angel
I think it is a good thing. They almost certainly will not all make it but if one or two do it was a good move.
Filip Stevanovic. Ed said he had enormous potential and it would be great for us to get him. Ed said we would find out what is happening with him at the end of the month. His birthday is on 25th, 18th I think. The rumour is we have bought him and will loan him back but can’t do it until he is 18. Guess we will find out.
5.) 09 Sep 2020 14:22:07
Good post redman.
Angel we need to wait for his birthday on 25th sep. Very highly regarded.
6.) 09 Sep 2020 14:24:10
Ed2 what is the rule change that is taking effect.
{Ed002's Note - That English sides will no longer be able to buy 16/17 year old players from EU sides.}
7.) 09 Sep 2020 14:52:40
Gazza91. I believe it is due to Brexit. The gift that keeps on giving.
8.) 09 Sep 2020 18:42:03
Cheers Red Man. Do you mind me asking what the significance of that is? I hadn't seen it explained on here.
{Ed002's Note - The significance is that because of Brexit sporting benefits such as this will go as the UK descends in to recession and the eventual financial death spiral.}
9.) 09 Sep 2020 18:58:46
Good to see us active again in the youth market. A hell of a lot of talented lads in there now- let’s hope they progress well.
10.) 09 Sep 2020 20:00:38
Many thanks ed. I though brexit was the issue but didn't want to assume.
Hopefully he will become a united player, looked good against us and have heard he is indeed a talent.
11.) 10 Sep 2020 13:33:42
Hah, you have an even cheerier outlook on brexit than I do Ed! Out of interest, do you have any idea what implications our nations economic suicide may have for the signing of senior players in the future? Beyond the obvious increase in dead pit ponies and so on, and the likely decrease in available transfer funds. I'm thinking in terms of visas, work permits, taxes etc.
{Ed002's Note - WP rules will change.}
12.) 10 Sep 2020 14:26:23
I feel City's owners have found a way around this by buying clubs in Europe. They purchased Troyes in France last week, means they could theoretically sign young EU players for Troyes then transfer them over to City at 18.
17 Aug 2020 08:07:30
Last night was another reminder about in game management. We had two games in this competition and our front three didn't score in either, even with an additional 30 minutes in the first one. Our front three don't score last night, yet we make no changes until 87 minutes. Sevilla make a substitution on 56, they score on 78 minutes. Why did we wait another 9 vital minutes when they haven't scored in the previous 200? Why do nothing until 87 and then the subs were Mata and TFM. TFM! We needed a goal so why did Ighalo only come on 3 minutes into injury time? What was the thinking with Ighalo? I would love someone to explain this ingame management from Ole. I would also like to know why he dropped Romero, who I can only imagine will now leave.
1.) 17 Aug 2020 08:45:17
because the players we have on the bench are crap,
other than our first 11 we have no one.
when you look at our bench when we need something different we are lacking.
but both goals yesterday were simple defensive errors.
no one aware of the runner for the first one and to be fair the keeper got beat at his post i would expect him to do better,
second goal between wb and linoff neither one looked and got goal side. poor defending cost us another game
we need to improve, stop wasting time and either pay up to get Sancho or move on to another player.
next season is round the corner and we look so thin.
2.) 17 Aug 2020 09:02:36
The difference between the two teams was lies in the fact every time our forwards got into a good position, they were immediately closed down, Bono particularly reduced the space which made it near impossible for Martial or Greenwood to bury their chances. Our defenders didn't do that. De Gea remained glued to his line, which gives the striker plenty of time to pick out a spot.
Rashford was terrible, but I kept thinking "who can you bring on for him"? James? Lingard?
3.) 17 Aug 2020 09:10:07
Bolger2
If you think Ighalo is “crap” why on earth did Ole agree to extend his loan costing the club millions?
Do you think more of the same thing that isn’t working is the answer? What was the definition of madness? There were options but to sit on his hands until 87 minutes (93 for Ighalo) expecting a different outcome is numbing and not decisive.
4.) 17 Aug 2020 09:37:40
ighalo was brought in to be backup nothing more.
if martail is fit, ighalo isn't going to play we missed out on halland and exstended his loan so we don't need to spend millions on a replacement
what options do we have on the bench?
james? mata? lingard? our bench is poor. no one on that bench would have come on and made a difference.
defensive mistakes cost us the game.
5.) 17 Aug 2020 09:44:24
But Martial was our best player last night, he was causing trouble, linking up well with Bruno and Pogba, Ighalo would have to either replace him, or see Martial shoved to the left in place of Rashford, which may have lessened his impact. I don't think it was as straight forward as many make it seem. Martial and Greenwood were not the ones needing replacing last night, and apart from Ighalo, the rest of the bench was dire.
Also, I wouldn't say it wasn't working, we had plenty of chances (thwarted mainly by a defence and goalkeeper closing them down), although the players did seem to drop down a gear after their second goal.
6.) 17 Aug 2020 10:05:23
Bolger
It wasn’t just defensive mistakes, we only scored one goal and that was a penalty.
LLV
It wasn’t working because in both games we haven’t scored in open play. If you note we dropped down a gear after their second, why did Ole do nothing for 9 minutes, longer for Ighalo?
Why keep Ighalo if we were not going to use him when we needed a goal. 87 minutes is ludicrous when added to the previous 120.
7.) 17 Aug 2020 10:33:50
Redman.
Ole is just not up to the job. This is Europe's 2nd tier comp. We have players there that have won it before. So our bench was strong enough Ole just doesn't have the know how despite spending 200m and getting rid of the players many here branded useless.
8.) 17 Aug 2020 10:40:35
Red Man, do you seriously think Ighalo would have changed anything? I can't even remember touching the ball in the almost 10 minutes he was on the field. It's just guess work.
9.) 17 Aug 2020 11:09:02
LLV
So why did Ole approve giving him an extended contract? Spending millions to do it.
If it isn’t working he had to do something, whether it was Ighalo or something else, instead he dithered, again.
10.) 17 Aug 2020 16:11:06
Because there needs to be someone to cover for Martial if he's injured. He's a stop gap, not a real option.
11.) 17 Aug 2020 18:00:49
LLV
We needed to make a change, do something, Ighalo is a striker but Ole did nothing, it’s not good enough.
12 Sep 2020 10:43:03
Pog
I read about him a couple of months ago. He started in our academy but then moved to City, scored a lot of goals for them, something in my head says 600, but now feels unappreciated at City.
Just looked now and reports say he will cost just under £1m, to stop going to a tribunal. City are said to be negotiating over various clauses in the agreement. A tribunal could drag the saga out for several months, which both clubs would be keen to avoid. City are not happy to lose him. He can’t sign professionally until he is 17 and his 17th Birthday is this month. Over the past few weeks he has been regularly ‘liking’ United posts on Instagram, those of the United’s players.
He was coveted by several significant foreign clubs. Looks like another potentially very good signing at youth level.
11 Sep 2020 14:00:36
Pog
Thought I replied to this but yes rumours he can’t sign professionally until 17th birthday which is this month. City and United prefer to agree compensation, possibly circa £1m, rather than wait 2 months for a tribunal. Originally in Uniteds academy moved to City 6 years ago, scored over 600 goals. No official word but the lad has been liking United players posts on social media.
04 Sep 2020 13:10:54
Jred
He did cost mega money, as you put it and if they sell there will be a big loss on him.
Giggs had terrible hamstring issues but we found a way to resolve it, I think with Yoga. That’s why they have medicals.
04 Sep 2020 12:06:33
Jred
Barca have spent mountains of cash, such as on Dembele and Coutinho plus been paying Messi a very large salary.
I suspect Dembele may be someone they can realise cash on to help rebuild and I would be surprised if it was anywhere near the mountain of cash Sancho will require. I may be wrong but think Fati is the one they really want to keep.
04 Sep 2020 11:41:46
Bolger
To be fair to Ole, it was early in his time and likely he didn’t feel he had that level of authority at that time. However, do you think Ole had a say on who went on loan Smalling or Jones?
It seems a long way since the eulogy that SAF gave him.
19 Sep 2020 10:10:23
Ed001
Yes, thanks, don’t know him. I often say partnerships are important at CB, I would expect you guys have done some good scouting as Klopp and Co do. Will be interesting to see the fit. Unfortunately I watched very good Liverpool CB partnerships in the 70’s and 80’s. If you get that right pairing right as well, it spells more trouble for us all.
{Ed001's Note - he is young so it will allow the Gomez and VVD partnership to flourish.}
19 Sep 2020 09:56:05
Ed001
I think Liverpool have made two good signings, tweaks and good tactical ones, they fit in well. I expect you to go deep in all competitions. Maybe the CB situation for you alongside VVD is something but you know that better than me.
I am surprised United haven't got rid of a few, however, I sense unrealistic monetary expectations are behind that. All very well expecting Dortmund to drop their price but then expect to hold ours. My instinct is that is very financial thinking in nature, driven by those where the numbers in the accounts are more important than the actual situation. We seem unable to do a deal, to see the benefit of resolving situations and what it might improve. From the outside we seem to cling on too long in situations. Do the deals, take the hit, the benefits will be more than the losses in the books, unless the books are what really matters.
{Ed001's Note - Kabak is for centre-back mate.}
19 Sep 2020 09:45:31
A couple of things AJH.
Shaw is too often injured, Williams comes in but has not enough left foot and doesn’t look like an Irwin at left back. I like Williams but think it will depend on who the left back is up against as well. If it is a left footed winger, playing on the right, a right footed full back can be useful if they cut inside all the time. However, if we want our full backs on the front foot, we need a left footed left back, one who doesn’t play 5 out of 10 games due to injury.
Telles is 27, Reguilon was I think 23. We have just bought a young 17 year old 6 foot left back from Madrid, who, in two to three years, if he is good enough, will be pushing for a place. A younger left back would block him and he would question why we bothered. Therefore Telles at 27 makes sense, if we buy him. I think the position needs to be looked at.
Telles may be first choice and that sends a clear message to Shaw. Williams will be able to cover both full back positions, especially if Dalot goes, because whilst I think Dalot is a good player Ole doesn’t. How will Williams feel about not being a first choice player? Well, down to earth lad, it didn’t do OShea any harm, but depends on his ambition. He is talented but not sure left back is right for him.
This is left field but is it worth looking at Williams in a defensive midfield role for the future?
18 Sep 2020 15:19:59
Herrera
We don’t just need a forward
If we pay what we would have had to pay 4 weeks ago for Sancho ( and I am not sure he is worth that much and probably would have looked elsewhere by now) then it would be a waste of 4 weeks or more of integration time. Ed says we know what is needed, if so pay or move on. If Woodward comes out waving a piece of paper saying he has got a big discount fine, but if it is what Dortmund want then it was just a waste of weeks. What about the other positions? I can understand it with a purchase like Sancho, high end but if we need a CB, Holding CM, LB surely there was a plan for it. Remember I have seen us get players on the last day before but that is one, not 3. We may not lose points but if we do they may be vital whilst dithering over the price.
18 Sep 2020 13:03:54
Simo
Surely we know the price for players (Ed said we know what is required on Sancho) and if it is over what we would like to pay we have to take into account paying a premium for having them available for the first game.
Sure they know who they want, but if they just keep going until they pay what the other club quoted in the first place, and in the meantime we drop points that’s not planning. How much could 2 points mean if it is the difference between CL and EL?