Manchester United Discussion

27 Nov 2023 19:04:04
Garnacho may have stole the headlines with what is probably, from a technical point of view" the best overhead scissor kick goal on the EPL era. You can argue others maybe have been more important in terms of context, but just for sheer technical excellence Garnacho's has to be the best I can remember.

When coaches are showing replays to kids on how to do a scissor kick, Garnacho's will be the go to resource. The body shape, the timing, the connection all perfect.

So he deserves all the plaudits for that. However, that said I didn't think he had a great performance overall, and he still needs to be doing more to justify starting more games when everyone is fit and on form.

Now that's out of the way we can talk about the real revelation of yesterday's game. Kobbie Mainoo was superb, a titan, and probably put in one of the best midfield performances that I can remember from the past couple of years.

Obviously this needs to be taken with a note of caution. He's a young lad and his form will fluctuate. He also has a long way to go yet, one good game does not make a great player. He needs to keep his head down, stay grounded and keep working.

However, yesterday he was EVERYTHING you want from a midfielder. He worked tirelessly, both on and off the ball. He NEVER hid once, always showing for the ball and prepared to take the ball, even when under pressure. Only to calmly turn the opposition and roll the ball past them into space before popping off a pass (generally in a forward direction as well) . He anticipated danger, made some good tackles and interceptions, as well as having the good sense to track back, making sure he was in the right place at the right time to clear the ball off the line, preventing a certain goal.

Defensively he was immense, not though power and pace or physical domination. But through excellent reading of the game and anticipation. He played with his head despite being so young and inexperienced. He could see the danger where players 10 years his senior could not. The promising thing about that is that he should fill out a bit and become more effective physically, but he has that footballing intelligence that you just cannot teach. The kind of football IQ that the very best all have. He has that, and he will continue to improve and develop that area of his game as he gets more experience.

It wasn't just his off the ball and defensive work that was excellent. On the ball he was just as effective. Comfortable taking the ball under pressure, then able to progress the ball forwards. He showed more in terms of effective ball progression in his time on the pitch yesterday than players like McTominay and Fred have shown in their entire United careers.

It wasn't all about upping the tempo and playing passes quickly. He showed real intelligence in knowing when to play a quicker pass and when to slow it down and to give a little more control and manipulate the oppositions shape.

Finally, he showed phenomenal temperament and attitude. To take playing away at Goodison Park in your league debut, especially playing in the heart of midfield, showed great character. He could have easily been overawed by the occasion, many great players have been on their debut, especially if they came in tough away games. To play such a pivotal role in the side, in such a game. While doing so to the level he did showed that he has a top class temperament.

This kid has all the ingredients to become a top, top player in the EPL. The last time I saw a kid his age, play as well as he has in the heart of midfield, was Cesc Fabregas when he broke through at Arsenal. While Fabregas had the luxury of having a much better team around him when he was breaking through.

While Garnacho might have taken the headlines on Sunday, it was another academy graduate that might have been making his "a star is born" moment. I really can't wait to see how Kobbie goes on from here. For me, seeing young academy lads push to be first team regulars, is what Manchester United is all about. We give these lads chances and and a platform few other tops sides do.

If anything of what makes Manchester United great still exists at the club, then it does in the boots of the players like Kobbie Mainoo.

28 Nov 2023 06:15:52
One game.

28 Nov 2023 06:37:42
I would advise caution when it comes to young players. It is just one game. No pressure on the young lad. Keep it in your pants Shappy.

28 Nov 2023 06:51:57
It was, but name a better midfield performance from a United player l over the past 3 years?

The kid has a long way to go, but he's started off very highly.

As United fans who haven't had much to be happy about or to look forward to this season, Kobbie offers a potential bright spark.

28 Nov 2023 11:08:27
I was partly joking Shappy, but I kt partly. Yes he looked good but so did ple ty of others. Januzaj is one and remember Tuanzebe against PSG. Let's hope he's the real deal, but let's not over burden the kid.

28 Nov 2023 12:07:54
I have seen him twice playing in the youth team in person. In the EFL Trophy against league 1&2 opponents. He was dominant. The lad has everything you need.

I wish him all the best.

28 Nov 2023 17:35:15
Me and the boy watch a lot of the kids football as well, Caolan. Haven't been this excited since Mason came through the ranks. And before Mason, there wasn't a lot really to get excited about. I can see why he gets the Pogba comparisons. Hopefully, it turns out better than that story for us.

29 Nov 2023 01:38:48
Just hope he has good people around him and protected from the noise that comes with being so young at a club like United. He is really a young boy and lots ahead of him. Need to manage his minutes as he is still developing. He reminds me of scholes/ carrick in terms of temperament and seems to be in his own bubble, which is great. So so calm and efficient in what he does on the field.

24 Nov 2023 08:49:34
I've not seen any posts mentioning the recent revelations that Utd could potentially lose out on CL/ EL, due to SJR's ownership/ part ownership of two clubs.
Essentially only one would be able to appear in the CL, regardless of whether they qualified for it or not, and if they both finished in a CL spot then the highest placed side would be the lucky one. Not sure what would happen if they both placed in the same final position.
The other side wouldn't even go into the Europa League, due to the chance the pair would meet in a later stage, and would instead drop into that cruddy one West Ham won last season.
So obviously (one would assume) the prospect of this occurring would have been spoken about in very early meetings between Jim and Utd, and assumably there are multiple loopholes enabling Utd to qualify regardless (not forgetting Nice are looking very good to qualify) . But loopholes can be removed as well as exploited. Maybe it's closer scrutiny of this that is holding things up, who knows.
Maybe he'll sell Nice. Maybe as Utd aren't looking great for CL this season he thinks it can all iron itself out. Lots of ins and outs.

24 Nov 2023 09:41:24
I read it comes more down to leadership than ownership? I. e, INEOS can own multiple clubs but the leadership cannot be the same with both clubs. For example, Jean Claude-Blanc, Paul Mitchell would not be able to work across both clubs? Not sure if this is accurate or the best example. However there are plenty of clubs now that are in this situation and it works, I believe Man City and Girona are in the same scenario?

24 Nov 2023 09:45:06
I seem to remember someone (potentially Ed02 but I could be wrong) saying that it would be allowed if it could be shown that the two clubs were run as separate entities. I think Red Bull had both clubs in CL as they were able to show this. Maybe this is one of the reasons that Brailsford has stepped away from Nice.

23 Nov 2023 21:42:35
Naruly Alip, anyone seen him play?

I'm intrigued because we do need to, albeit belatedly, start thinking outside the box, so to speak, and there really are some stupid figures being demanded for defenders with rather less potential than what is suggested by the fees.

Anyone got anything?

19 Nov 2023 18:59:21
He was playing for new contract last year wasn't he, now he has it .

16 Nov 2023 15:07:56
Really looking firsts to seeing how all the new appointments and structure above the manager works out.
Is eth the man they see in charge going forward?
It's hard to know ed002 feels that they may change.
So should that change be immediate or do they wait and see how he operates at closer quarters and see how he engages with them.
Really interesting times ahead so many positive opportunities to change things for the better medium term.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how things pan out.
It's got to lift the general mood around the place anyway so that in itself is a good thing.

{Ed002's Note - I would doubt that ten Hag will be manager next season.}

16 Nov 2023 17:08:56
I can understand that ed002.
Usually new owner comes in with new ideas and a bit of a clean sweep.
It will be interesting to see how the rest of this session goes or if they will make a change sooner rather than later.
Probably too many variables to know.
Cheers.

16 Nov 2023 18:03:40
Ed002, could I ask who you think SJR may target for manager if ETH isn’t likely to still be there? Obviously it doesn’t mean that he/ we will get them, but who is likely to be the main target, in your opinion?

Thank you.

{Ed002's Note - The trouble is it is not about the investor as such.}

16 Nov 2023 18:17:13
Ed002

If you could, who would be in the running to potentially replace him?

Appreciate it.

{Ed002's Note - Jim has two people he would consider but it is about others and what they also have thoughts about.}

16 Nov 2023 19:58:42
Ed002, have you got any views on who might be on the shortlist to replace him?

{Ed002's Note - See previous answers.}

16 Nov 2023 21:18:46
I think they’ll try and give him the season but, if results don’t improve, it’s inevitable he’ll go.

Lots of question marks about his communication skills, obsession with automatons and players in certain positions plus making players run too much on the week, causing non-contact injuries.

16 Nov 2023 23:44:12
I think it depends on what the FoF wants, if you bring someone in to run the show then you have to let them have their man.

16 Nov 2023 23:48:25
DoG not Fof.

17 Nov 2023 08:11:37
A DOG will be in charge? No change then. 😂.

17 Nov 2023 10:04:10
Ed002, is ETH aware of this?

{Ed002's Note - Yes he will be.}

17 Nov 2023 10:40:27
So will the players .

17 Nov 2023 13:24:39
I think as fans its normal to want to know everything about the club and what will be happening.

However, most of the details are yet to be worked out, with many of the people who will be responsible for them not even in place yet.

We know SJR will want to make changes, its bee well publicised that he wants control over the football side of the club. Logically if he wants control over that side then he will be planning on making changes.

However, he isn't a football expert. He is bright enough though to make sure he hires football experts in those key roles.

It probably will be JCB in as CEO. He can't come in yet as the purchase isn't completed. Yet even if JCB is sure he will get the job, until he is in there and doing it will he be sure what changes need to be made.

Maybe it'll be Paul Mitchell in as DoF or maybe someone else. But until that person is in place then they won't be able to work with the new CEO (whoever that is) to know what they need to do an what they have to work with.

Let's say it is Mitchell as DoF, will he want a new manager or not? Well that will depend on a range of factors.
Does EtH suit what the new DoF want's to do? Does EtH want to work under the new structure with maybe a different remit? Or maybe the new DoF is forced into a decision if results get to a certain point.

There are too many moving parts to accurately make any sort of predictions or educated guesses about what will happen.

Will the new CEO be prepared and able to plan for the club to not qualify for the UCL next season in order to sort other factors out, or will the pressure to qualify and receive the financial rewards for being in it be too much.

If the CEO decides we absolutely cannot afford to miss out on UCL, then how does that effect the decision making of the new DoF?

There are too many ifs, buts and maybes at this stage to have any idea about how this wil play out.

All we know is that SJR will make changes at the top, and those changes will filter down through the club over the coming months and years. Hopefully getting us back to being a competitive club again.

I appreciate what EtH has done, I feel that he has handled everything really well during a time of utter destabilisation and chaos at the club. I feel he has laid good ground work in this squad, set expectations, instilled a level of discipline, and has started to develop this squad in the right direction. He's been a safe pair of hands and he's done a great job in my opinion all things considered. For that I will always be thankful.

I hope he is given a chance under this new structure. In my opinion he has definitely earned it. Yet if that isn't to be then I wish him the best and thank him for all he's done. Ultimately it is about the clubs success and not an individuals.

17 Nov 2023 15:16:03
Laid good groundwork virtually every player he purchased or loaned can’t even get in his own team, how on earth is that good groundwork if he don’t like them and his own choices why will the next man
Antony…
Mount
Arambat
Shall we go on with the rest, no not worth it, are any of these any better then what he let go, probably not, so how on earth is it good groundwork all he done is empty the bank account.

17 Nov 2023 23:35:47
I find it strange eth still has a job yet knows he's likely to lose it soon. Back to the square 1 again.

18 Nov 2023 07:31:20
The thing this time however it hopefully isn't back to square 1.

We have appointed manager after manager without any of the help he needs in terms of competent leadership.

If and it's a big if, because we have to wait and see how it pans out, WWE put the right CEO and DoF on place it's back to square 0 and United can put in place a team including the manager who can take the club forward.

18 Nov 2023 19:15:35
I agree Oak but if the right people are put in charge it then needs a capable manager and then back him, not for 1 minute as ETH shown he can be that man, his tactics his game plan his man management his purchases his loans have all been very questionable to say the least…

Back a manager by all means but it’s got to be someone capable, even ETH attitude shows me he not going to like being told who he got and not got in the squad, it needs to be total reset…no point having a bit of this and that.

19 Nov 2023 12:32:20
Hi ed002

Hope all is well. Just read the above discussions. Is it correct to assume eth and current owners are looking at parting ways or more about sjr coming in and wanting changes.

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth?}

19 Nov 2023 15:00:56
Ahmad, It's not that they are looking to part ways, just that its fairly common practice when a new management structure is put in place with new people and a new vision/ plan (or in our case an actual plan) that existing people often leave.

However, that is dependent on whether they fit the new plan or want to be part of it.

At the end of the day us fans are mostly happy with the idea of the club becoming more organised and focused. Having an actual vision and a plan for how to accomplish that vision.

However, that vision/ plan is not the one EtH signed up for. Maybe the new people at the club don't feel EtH is the right man, or maybe EtH doesn't want to be part of a new structure and work under the new conditions.

Until we officially have a new CEO and until we clarify who will be DoF (Murtagh staying or someone like Paul Mitchell taking over) then we are no closer to knowing what sort of changes these new people will look to make.

It's all up in the air, with no guarantees about what will happen or when. Just got to sit back and see how it all shakes out.

19 Nov 2023 22:20:36
Shappy

I am still not clear what ed002 is reffering to. New management or not the manager is right or wrong for the club. I tend to think very right and a big mistake if we change.

Dof footballs do not set the tone for your team. Its the manager and dof go get the guys that fit that vision. Not the other way round.

There must be more to this that we are not aware off.

19 Nov 2023 22:44:59
Ahmad, I think you have it the wrong way around. The whole point of having a DoF is they set the tone. They decide what the team should look like, the profile of players and the broad style of play. The whole point of having a DoF is that it's a role that bridges managers meaning teams don't lurch from one manager and style to another.

The DoF will be the key figure in hiring and firing managers. If they do their job well they'll hire a manager who fits their vision and the squad at the club.

If we get a new DoF then they will decide the direction of the club, if EtH doesn't fit that then he'll likely be let go in order to bring in someone else.

Personally I feel EtH has done enough to deserve a crack at the whip with some competent people around him. But if it's not the right fit then he'll depart.

20 Nov 2023 09:22:03
Surely most UTD fans will be hoping ETH goes get a change in the dugout he's been shocking this season and all of his transfers have big question marks over them . i'm really not seeing these foundations shappys on about what are these cornerstones to future success?

23 Nov 2023 18:11:18
People saying he has had a shocking season.
Third of a season gone.
Injuries galore.
6th in league, likely to get top 4 as villa and Spurs will fade away.
Champions league, historically we have made this hard for ourselves, this season is no different!
Dealt with problem players very well, firm and fair. Take Maguire vs Sancho reactions, Sancho sulks, Maguire knuckles down and is back in the team (albeit due to injuries, but he is doing a job) . I'd take a Maguire type attitude over a Sancho everyday, eth has stuck to his guns and rewarded someone who is rewarding eth with performances.

See where we are end of season, it will be a different picture.

I've always viewed this and last season as transitional seasons, if we really were to reset and clearout.
Next season, if given the chance, eth's utd need to stamp their identity on the opposition from game 1. If he has the stuttering start next season, he will be gone.