Manchester United Discussion

13 Jan 2025 16:56:02
I had been hoping that Arsenal would win the title rather than either City or Liverpool, but after yesterday I've changed my mind. Arteta is a jerk. Havertz not only dived for the PK he then did a Kyle Walker on Ugarte, flopping to the ground, pretending there was a head butt. Of course it must be very frustrating for them to be perpetual bridesmaids. Same old Arsenal etc. Justice.

13 Jan 2025 17:27:28
Shawthing, spot on, but I read this morning that the PL might be taking a retrospective look at the 'head butt'. Cruel if true. Havertz cheapens himself, and his team.

13 Jan 2025 22:01:52
Hope they look at Havertz grabbing uagrte by the throat too then. That's what causes that whole commotion. They didn't show that on tv replays tho.

04 Jan 2025 22:29:22
Not that I think it's a possibility but a straight swap of Rashford and Osimhen would be a ridiculously good deal for us.

05 Jan 2025 02:07:56
It would surely be such a good deal for us that you just know it won't happen.
Just imagine the Marcus meltdown after a Conte beasting. 😱.

05 Jan 2025 10:37:22
Unfortunately Rashford looks like he has overplayed his hand assuming the interview would generate a lot of interest. Maybe behind the scenes there is.
A deal for Osihmen or Kolo Muani with Rashford going the other way could suit all parties.
At the minute we are getting nothing from Rashford so we need to not over price him especially with wages and issue.

06 Jan 2025 10:27:58
I'm just not sold on Osimhen. He's a very good player, and ticks a lot of the boxes. It's his injury record that is concerning, and would be if he moved to a more physically demanding league like the EPL.
While his falling out with Napoli is also a concern, he also didn't have the best relationship with Lille by the time he left.

06 Jan 2025 20:18:46
Shappy

On another post I commented that I didn’t know about his attitude. However, many commented on Cantonas fallings out back in 92.

06 Jan 2025 22:15:21
Red Man, his attitude from the outside looks a concern, but I'll be honest and say that I don't know enough about the falling outs he had to be able to proportion blame on either the player or the clubs.

If it had been just one club then I probably wouldn't have mentioned it, but two slightly messy exits don't sound great regardless of who was to blame.

My real concern with him is that in the past 4 years he hasn't completed more than 70% of the available league minutes in any of the four seasons.

He does play with a physical edge and he does seem susceptible to picking up injuries. Given that the EPL is a much more physically demanding and challenging league than either Ligue 1 or Serie A that has to be the main concern. Do we want another player who'll miss at least 1 in every 4 games due to injury?

08 Jan 2025 12:56:24
He is still miles better than anything we currently have
He actually puts himself about is quick and aggressive and a excellent finisher all what Rasmus is not, so I would take him in a heartbeat.

30 Dec 2024 23:02:48
We have a couple of weeks now where the manager can actually get some training in with the squad. Hopefully amorim and his team can work some miracles and teach this pathetic bunch how to play football.

Rest and recovery days should be watching the last 4 games back in full in one sitting. Anyone who falls asleep gets a slap and a 2 week fine, because we as fans have to endure it, so should they.

I will say it again, we need to bring roy Keane as a coach because this lot need someone to shove a rocket up their arse and put a bit of fear in them.

31 Dec 2024 09:09:02
A couple of weeks? We're away at Liverpool on Sunday! 😬.

31 Dec 2024 10:10:15
Danny, Keano is my hero. But he would be a nightmare. It would get worse.

31 Dec 2024 10:43:01
Are you in some other universe, it’s Liverpool in what 5-6 days! Or you trying not to think about that game!

31 Dec 2024 12:09:42
Wow Danny, what's February like?

How's that Wotsit thing doing in the US?
What has fluffy Sir Jim done most recently?
What was the score against Palace?
And,
most importantly, Lotto numbers please. Come on, don't be shy. 🤲.

31 Dec 2024 14:12:29
Meant a couple of weeks with just 1 game a week, so we get 4 or 5 days training a week, just didn't word it right.

01 Jan 2025 12:11:38
Danny,

I’m fairly sure everyone knew what you meant mate they just can’t wait to jump down your throat to tell you that you’re wrong and be sarcastic.

Quite clear what you meant and correct, 1 game in 13 days as opposed to 6 games in 15 days previously giving chance to get on the training ground. It’s why I wasn’t too fussed about going out of the Carabao as it gives us some time now to focus. We will lose at Liverpool I’d imagine and the Arsenal cup game will be tough depending on how seriously they take it but after that we have to start getting points and the training done in the next couple of weeks will hopefully unlock some better performances.

01 Jan 2025 13:51:26
GDS2 Had I known what he meant I wouldn't have posted as I did. So not a case of jumping down a throat etc. I feared he was under a misapprehension of some sort.
A tad ironic that you have done exactly what you criticise to those who responded. Too funny.

01 Jan 2025 20:10:23
Fizz,

I haven’t and I have no idea what you’re talking about. If you aren’t one of the people that was sarcastic to Danny for no reason then that’s fine and you don’t need to take offence, enjoy your day.

02 Jan 2025 02:45:24
Must have been a bad few weeks. People getting all grumpy and nasty again.

Sigh…….

02 Jan 2025 06:18:54
Everyones grumpy on here 😂

So we should definitely hire Roy Keane to cheersl the gaff up!

02 Jan 2025 09:37:08
I'm not grumpy at all.
Few bad results not enough to upset me.
Some good decisions been made by the business recently. 18 months time will see us in a much better place. Until then I'll grab my popcorn and sit back and enjoy the carnage. Really enjoying some of the posts and reactions to the daily news out if OT. Brilliant stuff. Some really funny reations Keep the posts coming some are hilarious. 🤣🤣🤣.

02 Jan 2025 10:51:55
Ken, hope you had a good Christmas and new year mate. Good to see you, didn't see you for a while on the chat. Hope all's good.

02 Jan 2025 11:27:26
All good thanks angel.
Time to button down the hatches. Sjr and team making some really good decisions that will pay dividends over the next few years. Couple of bad ones too but they won't get it all right. Next 6 months will be tough and I expect some more really good business decisions. It's high time the club stopped acting like a community charity and stayed being run like a professional sports business. As I said some tough months ahead but until the fat is trimmed and I mindset is changed by all employees we can't move forward.

02 Jan 2025 12:05:23
GDS2, really?

It's called jesting - nothing serious meant by it, it's just having some craic.
Danny didn't seem upset by it and I'm pretty sure he'd say if he was.

We can all be sarcastic on here - and that does include you buddy. 👍.

02 Jan 2025 14:15:47
Yes ken, they do have to double down, no choice now.

As they say down my way though, it's not looking good bruv.

02 Jan 2025 15:19:28
It looks no different than I would have expected to be honest Angel.

02 Jan 2025 15:57:22
Never been sarcastic in my life Ork.

02 Jan 2025 16:56:07
Indeed. 👍.

02 Jan 2025 17:02:46
Ken, I thought you said we just needed a decent coach to coach this lot 😂.

02 Jan 2025 17:08:06
No angel I never said that at all.
I did think garnacho would be up for it I also thought a 3 would suit martinez but I'm wrong on both counts.
Both previous idiot managers moulded a group where the leaders are rashford Bruno maguire no wonder the likes of sancho and garnacho just don't want to work. Standards have been in the floor they know no better.

03 Jan 2025 08:53:31
Funny you should mention Sancho Ken. As I genuinelly think he’d be a good option in one of Amorim’s 10 slots.

03 Jan 2025 11:19:22
Eric,

I think the only slots Sancho would be good in are in Las Vegas, he could go with Rashford.

03 Jan 2025 16:20:50
He’s ready made for that left hand side 10 slot of any player in our squad. Not perfect, but he’s on the books.

04 Jan 2025 10:50:07
He’s going to Chelsea in the summer unless their season collapses which seems unlikely. He’s been awful since we signed him and I’d rather play Jonny Evans in the 10 than see Sancho put a united shirt on again.

28 Dec 2024 23:53:31
Hey Ed001. What do you mean by this?

"You've already been bought into by a sportswashing concern with a worse human rights record than any middle eastern country. "

{Ed001's Note - don't be an idiot, it is clear what I meant, why even ask the question, just do a bit of research and stop spouting inane tripe about how the west is all good and everyone else is bad.}

29 Dec 2024 03:33:43
MancMan

Some search fodder for you.

INEOS, Benzene and First Nation Peoples.

UK fracking and injunctions.

Ship canal pollution.

Threatening UK job losses if international pollution laws aren't relaxed for them.

While sifting through the results, there will be results concerning the INEOS word salad of ethics as provided by INEOS Group and a variety of it's subentities, along with incredibly hollow net zero target pledges - a similar pattern to sportswashing.

The INEOS brand is all over sports right around the world because, like for every other sportswashing brand, the merit of familiarity and association with entertainment industries that draw heavily on the value of community is far too powerful to ignore. The inherent acceptance amongst the many is that brands with such presence can't possibly be doing egregious things. Think of that as the front.

As a petrochemicals group with greasy pies dripping from every digit, INEOS are literally creating enormous volumes of full cycle pollution, including lifetime pollution that has very dire consequences for the sufferers. Think of that as the real meat on the bones - nothing pleasant and barely anything ethically sound.

What the dirty b***ard and his minions are doing in Canada is just vile, but the brand looks nice and shiny so we're all good.

I'm sure that Ed001, if so inclined, would articulate the point better, but you really should shake the sand out of your ears - the INEOS brand is a foul reality of big business.

Human rights atrocities can be subjective and I personally wouldn't necessarily agree that INEOS is particularly worse than every Middle Eastern country, but I'm 100% with Ed001 when it comes to the delusion of the West being better than any other region of the planet.
SJR's first language is English and he's a white man so, while bigotry and ignorance aren't necessarily the factors that impress the opinion or feeling amongst some, familiarity is.

There are plenty of muppets around who bang on about how bad China is, but most of the rhetoric they recycle is driven by the US who, frankly, are soiling their panties because they know the economic model of China will kick their asses.

I trust SJR in his ability to make this club function properly within the modern game, but I have absolutely zero faith in the idea of him considering the fanbase to be as important as the Manchester United/ INEOS brand potential.

I've run enough businesses for enough years to know how to identify what power a brand can deliver for my business interests, but there are far better brains than my squishy little mess who exploit brand power and potential to the absolute max - the extreme of sportswashing is still easy to spot though.

There are rotten scumbags everywhere in the world, our Jim is most certainly up there.

29 Dec 2024 04:30:21
Its not his fault, ED001. These folks on here just speak what the western media tells them. Its just an agenda. As i understand you have spent some time in the middle east so i am sure you do see the difference.

29 Dec 2024 05:21:31
It’s ridiculous to think that the west is any better, money speaks all languages and don’t matter where you come from, Ineos are no better than anyone else, in fact as Ed says are probably worse because they try act goody two shoes!
IMO SJR was never the answer to the problems at United and trying to play the local lad card is exactly the kind of BS that companies such as Ineos behave.

30 Dec 2024 11:12:30
Thanks for the info Ork, I had a look into the pointers you provided.

I now understand better how INEOS are persistent polluters of the environment including here in Manchester.

Obviously INEOS's record is poor and my first thought is that it is a failure of the authorities which allows INEOS to do what they do.

My second thought is that I am failing to see how the practices of INEOS are anywhere near as dire as those of the Saudi Arabian Government.

INEOS hasn't killed 15,000 Yemeny civilians with bombs. INEOS doesn't lash and imprison people for being gay. INEOS doesn't suppress the rights of women. INEOS doesn't enslave people and allow them to die in their thousands on construction projects.

Ed001, maybe you can educate me as to what I'm missing because I'm failing to see how what Ineos has done is in anyway similar and from your comments it would seem you have in-depth knowledge on the subject?

{Ed001's Note - why don't you try educating yourself like an intelligent human being, instead of expecting others to do the work for you. Do you think I have time to educate you? Christ sake, I wish I hadn't even bothered as you clearly haven't.}

30 Dec 2024 12:14:17
Ed001, trying to educate myself is exactly what I'm doing by asking questions of people who might know more about the subject than I do.

Then when I've been pointed in the right direction (Thanks Ork), I've done some research.

From that research, my conclusion is that you are wrong. You've said nothing useful to change my opinion.

It doesn't matter but I hope you cheer up soon.

{Ed001's Note - I am perfectly happy, just really busy and don't have time for this.}

30 Dec 2024 13:32:00
I'm pleased to hear that Ed001 :-)

I feel it's a shame you didn't take the opportunity to direct me to some topics I could research. It would have taken the same amount of time as it took to tell me I am an idiot and should educate myself.

{Ed001's Note - I would have had to look it up again to find it, so no it wouldn't take the same amount of time.}

28 Dec 2024 09:59:12
Will no one accept that maybe Ashworth as someone with years of PL experience had valid concerns about appointing a foreign manager totally entrenched in playing 3-4-3 from day one in every game?

Maybe instead of blindly buying into here is a bright young coach he will be able to make players improve dramatically as is needed more thought was given to well the players we have can barely pass 20 yards to the same colour shirt, have little technical ability, little energy and hardly any in game intelligence that a safer pair of hands was needed like a Tuchel, Eddie Howe or even Southgate whereby we could be sitting 6-7 points better off today and be less under this clould of doom?

Maybe Ashworth also saw behind the curtain and realised that if the person who hired him was full of hot air and was just a very good talker with little idea of running a club then it might not be a bad idea to get out now with a payoff and look on from a distance as the club lurches from one crisis to the next .

28 Dec 2024 10:31:52
Burren, I think that would have been a safer choice for someone like Ashworth and he would have had many valid reasons for making such an appointment.

But the fact that SJR and his cohorts plomped for Amorim says to me that they felt that there were major issues with the way we play and have decided to give this man ample amount of time to turn it around. I hope that this is the case.

He has had a terrible start to his tenure but I just hope that there is a method to all of this, I'm sure that there is. He seems to be very bright, talks well, looks well, plays an attractive brand of football. But with Jim Ratcliffe looking like he is in a hurry to get the club back to the top, I hope that he has the patience and foresight to stick with him.

Also, they really need to get recruitment right, a couple of bad signings and it will undo Amorims work.

28 Dec 2024 11:37:21
Absolutely sacking Ashworth could prove to be a bad decision. Just as hiring him in the first place could have been a bad decision.

Personally I think where EtH fell down as a United manager is that he changed and adapted too much. In the end it became very hard to describe how we played as a team under him as he regularly adapted his tactics so much for each game.

We saw how he wanted to play in his first couple of games, but the players struggled to adapt to it. So he changed it to fit his tactics around the players.

As a manager you have two options.

1. Make the players adapt to your tactics, and ultimately probably have to replace many of them as they won't be able to play those tactics to the level required.

2. Adapt your tactics to the players available to try and get the best out of what you have.

While the second option is considered the more pragmatic approach, it only works when you have a unified squad of players who are capable of playing the same way and the players are of the highest quality.

You can afford to adapt to the players when you have top class players who can win you games on their own if played in the right system. Likewise, you also need the squad to be able of a high standard and have intelligent players who can adapt to play different ways while maintaining a high level of performance.

We have had managers like Ole and EtH who have tried to adapt their tactics to the players available. Ultimately this has been unsuccessful due to those players being neither the quality needed or having the tactical intelligence to adjust their game to suit the tactics needed for the majority of the players.

As a result we have seen horribly inconsistent performances/ results sometimes beating teams comfortably, and other times being soundly beaten.

To play this way requires us changing the majority of the squad for higher quality and more tactically intelligent players.

So them we have option 1, what Amorim is trying to do. Implement a style of play and then either train the players to fit that system or bring in new players.

Both options require us to bring in a lot of new players. However, you could argue that it's easier and certainly cheaper to bring in players who suit a system than it is to just sign the biggest named, most talented players.

Whichever type of manager we brought in they would be having the same problems now. A lack of quality players capable of playing the style of football expected to the level needed for where a club of our size should be.

A pragmatic manager like EtH probably wouldn't have got significantly better results than EtH was getting, certainly not over the medium to long term.

When I watch us under Amorim I actually think we have played better than the results would suggest. We've typically controlled games better, had a better shape and created better chances. Where Amorim's system is failing at the moment is individual errors are costing us.

A system set up requires every player in that systems to play their role well. Individual mistakes are more easily punished by teams as the responsibility on each player is both greater and more specific.

We have players making mistakes in the forward line, wasting good opportunities to score. While players in the back line are making individual errors that are leading to goals being conceded.

Part of this is due to the limited amount of time Amorim actually gets to train the players.

He has said that training between games is limited due to recovery time needed. He is also having to heavily rotate to avoid injuries and burnout, due to our players poor physical conditioning. Which is further limiting time for players to play in the system and get to grips with it.

As the season wears on the players physical condition should improve as well as their understanding of what they need to do in this system. That will see a reduction in mistakes with us scoring more of our chances and making fewer errors leading to goals.

We just need to be patient and ride it out. The club are also doing all they can to reduce outgoings to meet PSR rules and to make money available to strengthen the squad in key areas.

This season will be tough, and I'm not expecting to see significant improvement until next season. Once the manager has had time to train the players in the system, work on and improve their physical condition, and bring in a few players to raise the level and suitability of the squad to play this system.

I would then expect to see year on year improvements as they squad get more used to this way of playing and the squad is steadily improved.

But we need to ride out this season to get to that point. I am still 100% convinced we have the right man in charge, and that the new owners are getting more things right than wrong. Don't swallow the media narrative against our club, they are preying on some bad results and the negativity fans feel because of those results to profit out of our misery. Rise above it.

28 Dec 2024 12:26:15
United are not a quick fix it's going to take years so I am not concerned that Amorim didn't come in in the middle of December and implement his system and magically changed us into winners.

This squad is rotten, too many for too long have overrated the players.

It's going to take years to sort out the finances and the squad because of years of mismanagement.

I like Amorim, and think he is the right man but even with the right man it's years to put right.

28 Dec 2024 21:31:11
Shappy, always what I say. Instead of sticking to his footballing principles, ETH tried to blend too many to suit they players he had at the club.

Absolutely, the players he ended up with were not the players he wanted at the start and many were thrust upon him because they couldn't get the players he want. Casemiro and Hojlund are 2 that spring to mind.

If anyone is in doubt, go back and read Laurie Whitwells in depth pieces detailing why we ended up with such players. When they were there, ETH then had to change it up drastically.

Going into his second season he then had an injury crisis and into his 3rd, we actually played some decent football but chances went a begging which ended up getting him the sack.

Without doubt, ETH is a fine coach and will do well elsewhere. This club is just a joke of a thing.