Current Avatar:
No Avatar image uploaded
No Avatar image uploaded
Manchester United Rumours Member Posts
Tumbleweed!'s Profile
Tumbleweed!'s Posts and Other Poster's Replies To Tumbleweed!'s Posts
To Tumbleweed!'s last 5 rumours posts
To Tumbleweed!'s last 5 banter posts
To Tumbleweed!'s last 5 rumour replies
To Tumbleweed!'s last 5 banter replies
Tumbleweed!'s rumours posts with other poster's replies to Tumbleweed!'s rumours posts
23 Aug 2024 13:48:17
Ed002 good afternoon.
2 questions for you.
What do you think will happen with sancho come the end of the window. Loan out, sell or stay?
Secondly mctominay do you think he will get a move or stay? If he does move do you see united going in for another midfielder to replace him or do you think ugarte will be the only 1st team midfielder brought in (assuming they get him)
Appreciate i'm only asking for an opinion.
{Ed002's Note - Jadon Sancho (W) Borussia Dortmund would take the player back but will not pay more than half of what they sold him for and will step back unless the demands of the player and club are more reasonable, or a further loan is offered. Newcastle may have provided an option but moved on. Agent approached Spurs but they can be discounted. Perhaps a loan to buy for Juventus but wages are a huge issue. RBL may be open to a discussion.
Scott McTominay (CM) If available at the right price, West Ham, Fulham and Galatasaray will be interested. Napoli may offer a wildcard option but he is not first choice - and they would likely only want a loan. I suspect he will stay or may make a move to Napoli.
Manchester United have priorities to address first.}
1.) 23 Aug 2024 14:46:54
Cheers.
14 Aug 2024 13:40:37
Hi ed002.
Do you know if there is any serious interest from the Saudi pro league in any of our players?
I've read reports that they are looking at the likes of lindelof casimero Anthony and rashford.
Just wondering if you think they will make any offers to united for any of the above?
{Ed002's Note - Casemiro at the right price may still be of interest.}
1.) 14 Aug 2024 13:56:25
I guess if Ugarte comes in then Casemiro has a decision to make.
2.) 14 Aug 2024 15:42:03
ED002,
What fee do you think a deal for Casemiro could be down for?
Thanks.
{Ed002's Note - I am not going to try and guess fees but at 32 perhaps £20M or so.}
3.) 14 Aug 2024 16:47:52
No it doesn't.}
4.) 14 Aug 2024 17:04:06
Cheers ED002,
I think the club just need to sell at a loss a s get his wages off the books.
5.) 14 Aug 2024 17:14:53
Paying him for a year and selling him next year might be cheaper and not generate a loss MH.
Not intimate with the detail but that's what a lot of us don't know.
6.) 14 Aug 2024 17:24:09
It depends, if it's going to cost the club the same regardless of whether he leaves this summer or next then surely getting another year out of him and his experience makes it worthwhile keeping him around for another year.
{Ed025's Note - that is not moving forward though Shappy, thats stagnating mate and if you want to progress you have to get rid of free loaders like Casimero and Anthony imo mate, they are bleeding the club dry..
7.) 14 Aug 2024 18:31:02
Assume we're amortizing his transfer cost at £15m pa and he costs us another £15m pa in wages, and his written down book value is £30m, selling him for £20m improves the bottom line by £20m in the coming fiscal year. That cost has to be reduced by the annual costs of his replacement. A 5 year contract for Ugarte at say £45m plus a wage of £5m year, for a total of £14m a year, still yields a better financial outcome.
These are all complete estimates based on info on the internet but, suffice it to say, if the Saudis are prepared to give us £20m+ for him we should take it and move on. We cannot be building teams around players at the end of their careers. Surely that's got to be the #1 lesson of the last 12 years or more.
8.) 14 Aug 2024 22:28:01
Ed025, I'd love to get all those players who aren't good enough off the books of the club this summer.
But if we did that we'd struggle to name a 5 a side team let alone a starting 11 and 7 subs.
Reality is that we need to ship some off this summer, a few more next summer and probably a couple more he summer after.
Currently Casemiro is the only special-ist CDM we have at the club. We need at least two special-ists defensive midfielders to cover for injuries and to rotate.
If we get rid of Casemiro this summer then we will also have to sign TWO defensive midfielders rather than one.
Therefore, selling Casemiro at a loss and then being forced to buy two midfielders is an extremely costly way to run the club.
Keeping Casemiro for one more season as the back up, while signing a player like Ugarte to be first choice. Makes much more sense. Then sell Casemiro next summer without him counting as a loss on the books.
Just like everyone else, bar City, we need to keep within PSR rules.
Say we bought Ugarte for 45m and kept Casemiro. That is the CDM position sorted for this season at a cost of 45m.
If we sell Casemiro for a 20m loss on the books, buy Ugarte for 45m and Sander Berge for a further 25m then solving the CDM position has cost us 90m with the two players and the loss.
Effectively you can add whatever loss we take on Casemiro to the fee of the player we sign to replace him.
9.) 15 Aug 2024 01:35:03
Doesn't add up Shappy. Casemiro costs United c. £30m a year in wages + depreciation. And if his departure means we have to buy 2 CDMs then surely we have to buy 1 anyway. So you can only compare costs between Casemiro and whoever replaces him. The second CDM will have to be funded by the sale of, say, McTominay and/ or Erickson.
Where are you getting the £20m loss from? Apparently we paid £60m for him on a 4 year contract. He's been with us for 2 so his residual value should be around £30m. Ed suggested we might get £20m for him. I'm sure United will be weighing the extent of the loss compared to the savings. If we can only get £10m for him then my guess is he'll stay, but they are not going to base the decision on the illogical proposition that we'll have to buy 2 people to replace him. If we keep Casemiro and get Ugarte, the bottom line cost for Ugarte is not £45m in year one, it's £9m amortization + his wages. Even if you assume a loss of £20m by selling Casemiro, you have to offset the £30m of annual cost you have avoided.
10.) 15 Aug 2024 01:50:57
Sales appear on the accounts for that year, incoming you can spread across fives year in regards the accounts.
You will be going into future years already having to account for that 15 million of his fee.
Chelsea are committing themselves to having to sell a lot of players in each of the next few years, assuming there are no more hotels to move about on the accounts.
I am not sure why everyone isn't playing hardball with them over buying their players, they have to sell.
We have a number of players who are going to restrict future budgets if we move them on.
I rather fancy there has been a bit of robbing Peter to Paul about us this window, out of necessity admittedly, but we are going to have to sell a couple each year just to balance the books and allow us to be able to spend.
We are still hampered by the awful recruitment over the last few years.
11.) 15 Aug 2024 10:01:03
Oak your forgetting if we sell the players we are trying to sell the wage budget would probably be significantly lower and this in the end is almost as big if not bigger than money from sales.
12.) 15 Aug 2024 19:02:07
I think it's unfair to label either Casemeiro or Anthony as freeloaders.
Nobody put a gun against the heads of Utds recruitment and said they had to pay over inflated prices and salaries.
You can't blame the players for maximising their income as they have a short career and let's be honest we would all do the same as them given the chance.
Both players do try. Casemeiro had an excellent first season but in common with the whole team last his way last season. This year with decent defenders behind him and a stronger midfield ahead of himaybe he will be able to play to his strengths more. Anthony has talent but probably not good enough to cut it at the highest level. flashes of brilliance fail to hide the overall level.
13.) 15 Aug 2024 21:11:37
Salford you are right, that is unfair on genuine freeloaders who have perfected that art.
The surplus to requirements players have parasitic veins running through their bodies. That is a more fair and reasonable analogy of them.
14.) 16 Aug 2024 10:42:23
Cutting Jimbo.
15.) 16 Aug 2024 14:08:03
I don’t know Casemiro but if he has the professionalism off the park he could be an excellent mentor for the younger players and still play a part if we are injury hit. He’s long in tooth but has been a great player and demanded success. If his heart is still in it.
16.) 17 Aug 2024 08:18:30
Get Ugarte in and play Casemiro in Europe, cups and as/ when needed in the league. Let’s be honest, ‘when’ we’re winning 1-0 away at Liverpool later on in the season, Casemiro coming on for the last 20 minutes will be invaluable.
Sell McTominay, bring in Rabiot and that’s midfield sorted, at a cost of only around £15m net:
Ugarte/ Casemiro/ Collyer
Mainoo/ Rabiot
Bruno/ Mount.
29 Jul 2024 19:16:34
Hannibal may be off to rangers.
Pellistri? I think there is some interest
Sancho psg potentially
Mctom Fulham?
Awb West ham?
Ericksen ajax?
Lindelof? Not heard much
Clearing these players would be a lovely end to the window.
4 more in would be great. A cb rb and 2 xcm
If we do clear out those I think that will only leave dalot Shaw maguire bruno and rashford as players that eth inherited. 3 summer windows to get rid of nearly a whole squad is some going.
It really would be nice to see the above 7 go before the end of August . If we got fees in and around 85 to 100m between them all it would be decent imo.
Rb looks sorted fingers crossed.
1 x cm looks sorted with the Uruguayan chap from psg.
Hopefully 1 of jb challobah or deligt will come in at cb.
Ideally then we get another cm in although I think eth is looking at mount as a cm.
1.) 29 Jul 2024 20:13:43
Where is Casemiro!
He should be the first out of the door, his wages vs what he brings represent the worst ratio of any player on our books.
Yes worse than Eeyore and the petulant child Sancho.
In order of priorities out the door.
Casemiro
Sancho
Maguire
AWB
Hannibal
Pellestri
Lindelof
Anybody else that isn't viewed long term.
2.) 29 Jul 2024 20:57:29
Casemeiro is on big wages and understandably no elite team will need him and middle tier teams could not afford him. So difficult to move on.
Likewise Maguire and Lindelof.
3.) 29 Jul 2024 22:44:37
I forgot Eriksen and Anthony!
We are still a mess.
Top 4 whilst not necessarily out of the question this year, you have to say if the majority of the above players are part of the squad, somewhere between 4th and 8th is a reasonable prediction.
Not being a doomsdayer, more so realistic about our current squad.
You could replace
Eriksen with Collyer
Maguire with MDL
Pellestri with Lacey
Casemiro with Ugarte
Lindelof with JB
AWB with that Maz. Guy from Bayern
That leaves Hannibal Sancho and Anthony. I would say Rashford, Amad and Garnacho offers us quite a bit on the wings, plus Lacey to be integrated wherever possible. So what to replace those three with from the youth setup, or any shrewd signings available. there's been quite a few names mentioned on here about potential youth players, it isn't the worst strategy!
4.) 29 Jul 2024 21:58:11
Unless a saudi league team comes in for him Casemiro is going nowhere, Lindelof will go before the window shuts but i think Maguire will be staying.
5.) 29 Jul 2024 22:05:17
Casimero imo is much more valuable to the team than the likes of mctom or ericksen jimbob imo. Good experience in a squad not blessed with that.
He is also a lot harder to move due to the finances. We cannot suffer big losses on assets and nobody will pay enough for us to avoid that.
Maguire and cas are not going to walk away from millions.
If he stays casimero will make a positive contribution imo.
Lindelof might get a suitable offer.
6.) 29 Jul 2024 23:23:10
Let's pray for the Saudis to take Cas.
PSG to take Sancho
Ajax to take Eriksen
Anyone to take Maguire
Someone to take AWB
.
.
.
.
7.) 30 Jul 2024 06:03:18
Have a feeling Ten Haag will want to hold onto a few of the players you listed. He loves peddling excuses and so will want to keep at least five or six pre-Ten Haag players around so that he can blame the squad he inherited when things inevitably go pear-shaped.
8.) 30 Jul 2024 08:52:46
This has reminded me, what happened with Hannibal?
He looked really promising not long ago, and I thought he looked pretty good at the start of last season, then he left on loan and suddenly his time at Utd seems to be over.
Did he just peak early and not expected to reach the level we need? Are there personal issues?
9.) 30 Jul 2024 09:19:46
Simply over rated over hyped.
10.) 30 Jul 2024 12:18:45
Hannibal has many good aspects of his game, technical skills, physically strong, reasonable quick and is seemingly a hard worker in the pitch.
But all of that is let down as he seems to lack the cerebral capacity to apply himself in a way that is beneficial to the team.
He runs around like a headless chicken, chasing the ball like a dog chasing a carrier bag in the wind. While he doesn't have the emotional intelligence to manage his emotions, leading to flashes of anger and petulant behaviour. Making him a red card waiting to happen.
Those drawbacks make him a hard player to fit into the line up. His most natural position at United would be in the No.10 as he isn't disciplined enough to play in the pivot. That means he's competing with Bruno, who has some of the same drawbacks (uncoordinated pressing - dragged out of position, and petulance) but without being able to have the same kind of impact on games. While Bruno is seemingly never injured.
We also have Mount, Eriksen and Amad who can all play there and are ahead of him.
Time to move him on and create space for younger lads who have a chance of making it, as long as there is a pathway for them.
Was he overhyped/ overrated? Well he's certainly never lived up to the hype. He has the talent, but is lacking between the ears. Something that is never considered when young players are rated. I keep saying it, but talent will only take you so far, mentality/ attitude are what makes the difference.
Have they got the right attitude to learn, to push themselves, to work hard, to look after themselves away from the pitch, the resilience to see setbacks as challenges and to relish those challenges.
Or do they let ego take over, get ahead of themselves, think they've made it, get distracted by all the things that easily distract teenage boys with money to burn.
Being a professional footballer is harder now than ever, the expectations, the pressure, the social media element, the need to not just be good with the ball but to train your mind, marginal gains.
If a professional at the highest level drops their level by 2-3% that has a massive impact on their performance.
Staying up late playing computer games so you haven't had enough sleep can be the difference between a good performance and an awful one.
While I'm not saying it isn't worth it, the sacrifices that these young lads need to make to make that leap from youth to professional level are massive and significant.
While they are also too young to have enough life experience to fully understand the impacts of their actions. They need to have enough trust and belief in those older adults around them to follow what they say and not question it or think they know better. Anyone who works with teenagers or has had teenagers knows exactly how hard (almost impossible) that is.
I'm a massive advocate for the club creating pathways and giving opportunities to youth players. For me that is an integral part of the Manchester United identity.
However, I also know that at best only 10% of the lads in the academy are ever likely to get a real chance in the first team. While less than 10% of those who get that chance will actually make it in the first team for a multitude of reasons.
So out of 100 lads in the academy, 10 or so might actually get some games in the first team. Of those ten you'll be lucky if one of them turns out to be good enough to play regularly for the first team. Maybe a couple others might be okay as squad players for a year or two (but will eventually have to move on to have a career) .
Look at United over the past decade. McTominay and Rashford are the only ones to have actually made it at the club. Rashford being good enough to be a regular starter, while McTominay is a solid squad player.
Last season we had Mainoo and Garnacho really step up and look to readdress that and get more youngsters in the first team squad.
Hopefully there are a few more to come from a super talented group of players currently in the academy.
Collyer looks like he might be the McTominay replacement as one who goes on to become a good squad player. Although fingers crossed he kicks on and proves me wrong.
For most of the lads in the academy, becoming a solid squad player is likely the best they will achieve at our club (that isn't an insult, but is actually a compliment. The standards for our club need to be sky high, even for those on the bench) .
Maybe there is the chance that one or two of them possess the right level of ability, mentality and temperament, while also getting the luck they need to step up and make it as a starter. From what I've seen of the academy lads there are three who for me have the best chance. Harry Amass, Shea Lacey and Ethan Williams.
They all seem to possess that higher level talent, while they also play in positions both where there is potentially chances opening up with players leaving/ declining over the next couple of years, and in positions where it is easier to give young players a chance (wide rather than centrally) .
I think it's particularly hard for players who play down the spine of the team to make the jump up and breakthrough into the first team. Be that keeper, CB, CM or CF. These positions are too key to performance and results. Fullback and playing on the wings are much easier positions to breakthrough in.
11.) 30 Jul 2024 23:52:55
Thanks, that's a shame, I remember seeing him a few times a couple of years ago, and thinking he might end up in a similar mold to Ander Herrera, who was a big favourite of mine. But if he doesn't have the mentality, not much that can be done. Maybe he'll discover it as he matures.
12.) 31 Jul 2024 10:30:38
Agree there Shappy: Gary Neville has always said he was never the most talented, but made up for it with hard work and intelligence.
13.) 31 Jul 2024 11:36:48
Thorne, it's always a shame when a talented young player falls short of making it at our club, for whatever reason.
Hannibal I think is a classic case of a young player relying too heavily on their natural talent and not developing the rest of their game.
The tactical demands of the modern game at the top mean players cannot rely on individual brilliance if that isn't paired with the intelligence to follow tactical instructions and work as a team.
Players need to know how and when to press, where they need to be during different phases of play. While also having the reading of the game to know which phase they are in and what they need to do next depending on what happens.
For Hannibal I think it came too easy for him at youth level, he never had to move outside his comfort zone and push himself to develop all areas of his game.
He always looked like a player where it was a question of "when" will they breakthrough, rather than "will" they breakthrough.
18 Jul 2024 18:10:34
Ed002. Has there been any discussions with rabiot and united? I like him as a player just curious as to where he will end up. I think he is suited to the epl. Thanks.
{Ed002's Note - Adrian Rabiot (CM/DM) Juventus are looking to replace their midfield misfits. They are looking to sell and move off the wage bill players they no longer want to fund replacements they have already identified. As a free agent, Rabiot will, like every other player, be offered to Newcastle. A third party has been instructed to find him a new home and whilst he could have been used in part exchanges previously he has let his contract run down and will leave as a Free Agent in the summer. Liverpool offer an unlikely, at least to me, solution but they have declared an interest and know what the financial implications are. I suspect Manchester United interest has gone. Milan and Real Madrid offer wildcard options. Turkey could provide a solution. Wage demands are excessive.}
1.) 19 Jul 2024 08:21:22
Isn't United's new transfer strategy to buy younger players with potential rather than players at the end of their careers on big wages?
{Ed002's Note - No.}
2.) 19 Jul 2024 11:09:48
I think United's strategy is to favour younger players who can grow into the side over time. But they are also exploring what options and opportunities are on the market due to a restricted budget and the size of the overhaul needed.
MdL and Rabiot are examples of players the club are looking at because they are available (potentially for less then they otherwise would be) . While Yoro might have been a primary target, it was expected that he'd go to Real Madrid, with any approach considered unlikely to succeed. Yet when United realised the door was left open a crack, they stuck their foot in the door and managed to get a deal over the line. Yes they've probably paid more than they should have given he had a year left on his deal. But by going in aggressively with a higher bid put Real Madrid on the back foot and made them unwilling to match it. Which to Yoro probably looked like they didn't value him as much as United did, which probably swung the transfer in United's favour.
10 Jul 2024 18:06:19
Hi ed002.
Do you expect greenwood's move to France to go through despite the obvious difficulty with his past history or will there be a backlash from fans etc ending up with the offer being withdrawn?
{Ed002's Note - Probably not.}
1.) 11 Jul 2024 12:57:41
No surprise there. Thanks. Its a tricky one for all concerned.
Tumbleweed!'s banter posts with other poster's replies to Tumbleweed!'s banter posts
29 Aug 2024 17:37:55
Has sanch signed for Juve?
1.) 29 Aug 2024 17:52:48
No. Wants chelsea apparently.
2.) 29 Aug 2024 18:41:08
Truereddevil broke the news yesterday so i believe so.
3.) 29 Aug 2024 19:38:08
No, he’s not gone anywhere as yet.
4.) 30 Aug 2024 10:19:09
Apparently like McTominay he'll only leave if the club gets what they want for him. Otherwise he'll stay and be part of the first team squad.
Personally while I'd rather he go, I do like the clubs new approach of not being a soft touch when it comes to selling our players.
5.) 30 Aug 2024 11:59:14
Sancho's preference is to join Chelsea.
6.) 30 Aug 2024 13:30:12
I mean given the sheer number of players they signed it might be the perfect club for Sancho. It'd be nearly impossible for the manager to notice him turning up late to training ?.
28 Aug 2024 20:05:19
Window closes in 2 days thankfully. I'm not sure if we will sign anymore I have high hopes but low expectations on that.
Hope we sell a couple more in lindelof and ericksen. I think we will see a few mad deals. Some clubs will get good loan deals for players for a season that they couldn't afford normally I think.
1.) 28 Aug 2024 20:36:56
From what I’ve read, Lindelof is unlikely to be going anywhere due to be injured.
2.) 29 Aug 2024 12:40:43
Yeah, I don't think Lindelof can pass a medical at the moment, which would make selling him practically impossible.
I expect to see Sancho and Eriksen leave before the window closes.
Along with Ugarte signing and hopefully another midfielder for depth.
At this point the only two realistic options look like Rabiot or Amrabat possibly. Personally I'd really like to see Rabiot join (as long as the contract is sensible) . Other than that INEOS will need to pull a rabbit out the hat to bring in someone else before the deadline.
3.) 29 Aug 2024 15:47:44
I'm looking forward to a real curveball unexpected loan with a minute to spare, perhaps a journeyman striker with a bit of experience.
Playing 2 false nines in week 2 was not part of any sane manager's plans.
4.) 29 Aug 2024 16:39:52
There is a bunch of people who are getting paid an absolutely fortune go rather than getting players in. Clearing their wages this season and in future seasons puts us in a better position going forward, and when those players are not starters all the more reason to shift them on.
26 Aug 2024 12:13:15
Are we the only big club that plays without a centre forward?
1.) 26 Aug 2024 12:44:52
Have been saying Ken that we need another striker, someone that is proven in the prem, the only one clearly available is Toney but we definitely need one.
2.) 26 Aug 2024 13:23:10
Arsenal?
3.) 26 Aug 2024 13:24:38
But we don't use the 2 we have. Rasmus on bench for last 3 games lad season and Zirkzee this.
4.) 26 Aug 2024 14:35:31
One is injured, the other went to the Euros injured and didn’t kick a ball in pre season.
5.) 26 Aug 2024 15:15:59
Rasmus was available last 3 games last season but on the bench we have not played with a striker in our last 6 matches which helps our defence because Bruno is not missing in action and it is harder to play through us. So does he want to play with a striker at all?
6.) 26 Aug 2024 16:36:08
Good shout angel but they do play havertz as a cf. He plays back to goal at times and links up play. We don't play Bruno or mount like that. No real focal point up front Haverthwaite plays a very different role. He is playing cf despite not being a natural one.
7.) 26 Aug 2024 16:39:36
But havertz is and has never been a CF. I watch them and see him as a false 9, albeit can push on. But he usually drops.
It works. They scored a lot of goals last season.
8.) 26 Aug 2024 16:45:25
Liverpool did pretty well when Firminio was their "striker", a player who had been a midfielder for most of his career prior joining Liverpool.
He was a false 9, and his off the ball work and link up play helped Salah and Mane score bucket loads.
Arsenal play with Havertz as their "striker", a player who isn't really a striker either.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see Chelsea play Nkunku as a striker at times, and City have used Bernardo Silva and Foden as false 9's on occasion.
It's certainly a tactic that other top clubs have used to varying degrees.
Zirkzee is also more of a false 9 than a traditional striker.
Given that Højlund is our only traditional striker, and that he is still young and learning his trade, I can see us being a side that plays with a false 9 more often than not this season, with Højlund maybe coming on later in games as an impact sub to offer something different to maybe change the game.
It's also a tactic that EtH used fairly regularly with Ajax with him using Tadic as his striker, especially in the bigger games.
Given that the majority of our wide players (Rashford, Garnacho, Antony and even Amad to a lesser extent) are players who look to score themselves rather than create chances then it makes sense to have a goal creating focal point rather than a goalscoring striker.
We lack creative wingers, as seen by Højlund's lack of service last season. He had one of the best conversion rates of any striker in the league last year, but was in the bottom half of strikers for the number of chances he got.
As we are unable to go out and buy a couple of chances creating wingers this summer then maybe it makes sense to play a "striker" who supports the wingers as we don't have the wingers to support the striker.
9.) 26 Aug 2024 16:54:39
So our season rests on rash having a 1 in 4 good season this next year? Excellent.
10.) 26 Aug 2024 16:57:53
Yes angel good manager arsenal have.
Haverthwaite plays up front for them as a striker as per arteta.
Plays the role well and as you say can drop deep too when needed.
11.) 26 Aug 2024 17:04:11
Goal scoring wingers we have is it shappy? Really? I'm not sure that's true. I think hasland scored more on Sunday than Antony and ahmad did last season as a whole.
Garnacho did he get 7 league goals last season?
Arsenal play haveryz as a cf as did klopp play firminho there. They may not have been cfs but its the position they played. Linking play back to goal mount or Bruno don't do that.
12.) 26 Aug 2024 18:26:33
Ken, by "goalscoring wingers" I mean wingers who will naturally look to shoot rather than pass the ball in the final third.
Key passes are passes that lead to a shot.
Last season:
Antony 1.8 shots per game, 0.7 key passes.
Rashford 1.9 shots per game, 0.8 key passes.
Garnacho 2.8 shots per game, 1.3 key passes.
Amad 1.1 shots per game, 1.1 key passes (on a much smaller sample size) .
As you can see they are all at least twice as likely to shoot than they are to try and create for someone else.
To put that into context Højlund managed 1.1 shots per game and 0.9 key passes.
Our starting striker was having less shots than all our wingers, while also managing more key passes than both Rashford and Antony.
Bruno and Mount have rotated as the CF and Bruno played as the CF in those final few games last season including the FA cup final. It's also the role Zirkzee is most likely to play.
Our wingers are the type of wingers that will always get more goals than assists, ergo they are goalscoring wingers. They just aren't particularly prolific at it.
13.) 26 Aug 2024 18:27:09
I'm not against a false 9 system by any means. Our way of playing it works in as far as we look harder to breakdown and don't get played through as easily.
But offensively it looks very disjointed and we have no focal point like a havertz or firminho. Is zirkzee that man? I hope so.
14.) 26 Aug 2024 19:03:21
At the risk of being contentious, I would drop Bruno for Zirkzee and have Zirkzee play as a false 9. Can't see it happening though.
15.) 26 Aug 2024 19:57:09
Haha ajh see my post on the rumour page. You are not alone.
16.) 26 Aug 2024 20:36:28
Shappy
You say we lack Creative wingers, I would say that we have them, but tactically they are not allowed or encouraged to get past full backs or cross balls, they have had to adhere to tactics, retaining the ball backwards and pass inside. We lack a centre forward but you mention our wingers shoot, well ETH plays inverted wingers to cut inside.
17.) 26 Aug 2024 21:02:44
Shappy, to put it more simply, we have the type of wingers that are sh1t wingers. Hopefully some of our younger guys can develop. I have given up hope for the older ones, now just sitting waiting for contracts to end.
18.) 27 Aug 2024 09:22:05
redman
you have first hand knowledge they are told to not go past fullbacks and cross. its a bit of interesting statement. When there are 2/ 3 guys defending of course you recirculate, everybody does. our delivery to the wings is too slow and too clumsy/ rusty atm. Not a lot of great opportunities atm where they don't take on full backs.
19.) 27 Aug 2024 10:45:10
Red Man, like you I don't know what the tactics the manager is telling the players.
But I do know that over the past 7 years Rashford has always scored more goals than he has created assists. He has always taken more shots than he has played key passes.
So either that is just his natural game, or LvG, Jose, Ole, Ralf and Erik have all coached him the same way and asked him to play the same way.
I'd expect it's fair more likely that it's just his natural instinct. When he has the ball in the final third he instinctively looks for how he can shoot rather than who he can pass to for the best scoring opportunity.
Antony it's a little harder to tell as in Europe he's only really been coached by EtH so you'd imagine that he's been asked to play a certain way. Which might explain why he has also always had more shots than key passes across his time at both United and Ajax. Although he also has more goals than assists for Sao Paulo and in his appearances for Brazil at various levels.
He is probably one of the most "head down" wingers I have seen in the EPL. Which again suggests that he isn't looking to see who he can pass to, but is just focusing on getting into a shooting position.
Amad and Garnacho it's much harder to tell as they haven't got much experience, they also seem to be fairly focused on scoring (as is fairly typical for young forwards), but they do seem slightly more mouldable and could be coached to be more creative. Last season I said on here numerous times that I thought Garnacho benefitted from playing on the right as he played with his head up more and was less focused on getting into a shooting position. He was a more rounded threat from the right than the left (where he tended to be overly focused on cutting in on to his right foot and shooting) .
Potentially with Amad and Garnacho we could coach them to be more creative, although it does appear that getting into shooting positions is their natural game right now (especially Garnacho) .
With Garnacho idolising Cristiano Ronaldo and openly saying he tries to model his style on his heros game, it's hardly surprising that he is overly focused on scoring at this point in his career.
Given that our wide players give the ball away the most of any players in our team I doubt they being overly constrained by "possession" tactics.
Personally I'd say the reason that they often end up passing the ball backwards or making the safe pass isn't because it's what the manager has told them, but because they were solely focused on trying to get into a scoring position themselves and only when it was totally cut off did they lift their head up to find a pass, by which point the only pass on is a safe backwards pass. Yet if they were looking to create chances and played with their head up then there was numerous opportunities to make a dangerous and creative pass to someone in a better scoring position than themselves.
But that's not their natural game, they only look to pass when they have no opportunity to shoot themselves. By which time others who were in good scoring positions have now been marked or had the passing lane closed off, with the opposition back in their defensive shape.
20.) 27 Aug 2024 10:58:30
Dodgy, I'm not saying they are sh1t, nor am I saying they are great.
Just that in terms of their natural playing style/ instincts is to look to shoot.
They are wide forwards more than wingers, they play on the side of their weaker foot, they aren't looking to stay wide and stretch play, but to cut in onto their stronger foot and shoot.
Historically there have been great players who play like that and awful players who play like that.
No one used to complain that Cristiano Ronaldo didn't get enough assists or that he didn't cross the ball enough. Because he was world class at cutting in and scoring.
If you had a prime Ronaldo you wouldn't have asked him to play on the right, stay wide and whip in crosses. That would have been a waste of his best skills.
Likewise, if Rashford or Garnacho play best when cutting in and shooting then why would you try and get them to play a different way against their natural game.
You get the best out of your players by getting as many of them as possible to play to their strengths/ natural abilities.
Maybe signing Zirkzee and looking to play with a false 9 is the best way to get the most out of the players we have.
Certainly playing with a more traditional striker in Højlund didn't help the team score the number of goals we needed to, despite Højlund having one to the best chance conversation rates in Europe, let alone the league.
Every forward line needs at least one facilitator, if not two ideally. If you have three players who are all focused on scoring the goals and not creating them then you are playing with three individuals in the final third with no one to support them.
Do you think RvN would have scored as many goals as he did with Ronaldo and Rashford playing with him instead of Beckham and Giggs?
Likewise do you think Ronaldo would have scored as many goals as he did for us with Rooney, Tevez or Berbabtov looking to feed him as many chances as he got?
Rashford, Højlund and Garnacho didn't work as a front three last season despite being our best three on paper as all are natural goal scorers (shooters over passers) .
We need to replace at least one if not two of them with players who will look to create/ facilitate chances for their teammates.
Zirkzee is an obvious option, Amad could possibly be another, or playing one of Mount or Bruno in the front three.
25 Aug 2024 20:36:20
We are only 2 games in and don't have our final squad in place.
None of us can be critical for that without having full knowledge of the constraints and complexity of the finances and intricacies involved.
Some players have joined late and are not quite up to speed.
Really disappointed in how flat and pedestrian we look. We move the ball so slowly compared to the rest of the teams.
I'm not sure who said it the other day ( maybe Salford sorry I'm not sure) there is something missing. It's hard to put your finger on what it is but it's just grey. Lifeless compared to the top teams.
Eth needs to get our new players into the team immediately and sort out what way we want to play. Striker or no striker?
Liverpool next week time to make some big calls .
1.) 25 Aug 2024 20:48:27
It's the hope that kills you but I must admit like last year I hold little.
We are an average team managed by an average manager. 3 years in and very little has changed on the pitch.
With onana casemiro and no striker our spine is just to weak. I'd play the youth, garnacho and mainoo the only positive players, all the rest play backwards and are robotic.
2.) 25 Aug 2024 21:11:11
‘Twas me sir!
3.) 25 Aug 2024 21:30:26
Sorry Keefy.
4.) 25 Aug 2024 21:51:27
I think we are missing ball players who like to keep the ball. As it is it's long balls from deep trying to counter fast. That's not the type of football that will compete. We also have some players that shouldn't be anywhere near our starting team like Maguire and Rashford. Harry tries his best but he's just not good enough and Rashford well. the less said the better. A waste of space. Ugarte will be a good signing but I think we need another in midfield that can play.
5.) 25 Aug 2024 22:35:30
What's missing is basic defending.
6.) 25 Aug 2024 22:53:48
We miss a dominant midfield player. A Robson or Keane figure. Not easy to find but we won't fight for the biggest trophies until we get a midfielder who bosses games and inspires.
7.) 25 Aug 2024 23:56:45
I partly agree ted I just don't get the Rashford hatered from the fan base ATM. he's literally playing the left side on his own because we have no full back. I would have taken amad off before Rashford at the weekend and believe that was the plan before he scored, not sure why that changed it.
We 100% need someone who can make passes and dictate the play we are far to reliant on Bruno to create.
8.) 26 Aug 2024 06:22:57
We need to play faster and risk more in final 3rd. Too many times we win the ball, get quickly to the opposition half, just to slow down and pass backwards and let their defence settle.
9.) 26 Aug 2024 08:13:07
All those excuses tumbleweed yet all other squads in the league share the difficulty of their important players not having a full pre season, Liverpool haven’t made a single signing with a brand new manager in place and have managed to get off to a good start.
ETH’s 3rd season now, more signings through the door and it’s the same old performances pretty much.
10.) 26 Aug 2024 09:17:19
Sarcasm doesn't come true in print.
We just are unlucky.
11.) 26 Aug 2024 09:57:19
First half I thought we held control and conceded a poor goal. Had chances but final ball let us down.
2nd half we just became chaotic after we levelled. Look at the winning goal, half the defenders were trying to bomb on for a counter when Antony (I think) challenged for a ball.
6 games lost to goals in the 90+ minute and I’m sure a few draws as well. It’s a trend that’s worrying which the manager must address. The subs were also shocking on Saturday.
12.) 26 Aug 2024 10:03:26
True red man,
If our away game had been against Ipswich we would have got off to a good start as well.
13.) 26 Aug 2024 10:12:04
Agree with a lot of the comments. Very slow build up and not sharp. I think we are a team that revolves around Bruno and he is not a physical midfielder and does not enjoy or is as effective when someone is nipping at his heels or putting a body on him.
I know rash is very disliked but said it last year and same holds true for this year, we need him to kick into gear. Dropping him will not help his confidence and can't see Amad or Garnacho doing enough in terms of goals.
i still believe this squad if we add 1 or 2 before the window will do very well. Wait till we have had 7/ 8 games and then its a better and fairer assessment of where things are.
Watched arsenal vs villa and the score is not reflective. villa have a really good team and good squad.
14.) 26 Aug 2024 10:50:27
Dbrooks90
There's a particular point of attacking play that Bruno excels at while Rashford fails - attacking spaces near the goal while having the IQ to understand how and when to show for the ball in pressurised zones.
Bruno is world class at picking locks with clever balls - only De Bruyne is better at that in the PL. So when Bruno receives the ball in the 10 position, he needs movement that adds impetus to the developing attack. While he would prefer to thread a ball into the box for an attacker to take and drive towards goal, he sometimes has to spread it wide.
What Rashford doesn't generally do is drive into the box to collect a pass because he can't read the game well enough and ultimately has no interest in playing to the strengths of anyone else.
What Rashford does like to do, and sometimes Garnacho too, really does p*** me off. He'll do the basic standing still to show for the ball or run into a pocket down the wing to receive a lofty. The majority of times he gets the ball, he dithers or tries the now-predictable step-over routine and simply loses the ball. If he's fortunate enough to beat his man, he's slowed play enough to allow the opposition to regroup and reorganise, the momentum has gone. As a wide player, he, at 26, should by now have the ability to make the correct decision and lift his bloody head up to pick a pass inside when the opposition is still vulnerable, but that's another area where he's poor - vision.
There are two similar players to Rashford in the PL - Mudryk and Werner. Both are quick, direct players who like to run in behind, but both, like Rashford, provide appalling levels of end product for their respective teams.
Yeah, Rashford has had 3 purple patches in terms of goals, but what does he do when he's not racking them up?
It's not just Rashford though - it's also Garnacho, it's also Antony on the right.
Bruno is a frustrating character, of course he is. If I was playing alongside someone like him, I'd hate him - gobby, petulant, ranting and raving. Yeah, I'd hate him alright, but I'd also respect his game.
We are talking about the guy who is our most gifted passer, our most gifted runner, our most gifted crosser, our most gifted striker of the ball. He is at his best behind the striker and would be unlocked by a player like Ugarte, but Rashford cannot be unlocked by anyone.
So yeah, we might well be too reliant on our most gifted player, but that reliance is impressed more greatly because of one-dimensional players like Rashford and, as a fan, I can tolerate the histrionics of Bruno far more than those of Rashford.
15.) 26 Aug 2024 11:53:31
Agreed Ahmad I think it’s going to be late September before things start to click. A strange pre season and signing players who did not kick a ball all summer are contributing factors. Recruitment has been ok but slow, I wish the window closed at the start of August and not the end.
16.) 26 Aug 2024 13:31:22
I hope we don't have bad luck all the way up to end of September.
Last season it was injury bad luck this season it's offside bad luck. It's our luck that need to change obviously and not the process.
04 Aug 2024 16:00:35
Interesting interview with zirkzee who claims he is not a cf more of a false 9.
We played our last 3 games lady session without a cf which covers Bruno a lot as he was not relied upon to be in the right place defensively which is a major weakness when he plays in a 3 man midfield.
Eth claiming sancho might play that role v city.
What is our tactic? Will we play with a cf like rasmus or without utilising zirkzee or sancho or Bruno?
It's bit weird that our preference is not clear imo.
Perhaps we will play some games one way and others with a cf.
It looks to me as if we are still unsure of exactly what the team shape will be when all our back.
1.) 04 Aug 2024 16:37:23
Maybe Zirkee playing off Hojlund up top.
2.) 04 Aug 2024 17:09:42
Loads of different options, we can play it different ways, the style of play will mainly be in how we build from the back, hopefully what we do up front will start to click.
3.) 04 Aug 2024 17:40:25
EtH used to regularly switch between a false 9 type player in Tadic and a more traditional CF in Dolberg during his time at Ajax.
I expect it's something that is likely to happen now at United with Zirkzee and Højlund offering very different solutions to potentially different problems.
Personally I think with players like Rashford, Garnacho and Antony that we are better off playing with a false 9 type CF who can drop deep, pull a CB out of place and link play.
While Højlund could prove to be useful playing on the right of Zirkzee or as an option late in the game against tiring legs when space has opened up.
4.) 04 Aug 2024 18:25:53
If only we had a Ruud in our team!
5.) 04 Aug 2024 20:55:43
No good if you don't pay with a cf salford.
6.) 04 Aug 2024 22:42:18
Rashford always played well with Martial (when he was fit! ) so I can see him benefitting from Zirkzee style where they will interplay and swap positions.
We don't have providers so hojlund will always struggle.
02 Sep 2024 14:08:26
Like the fans.
02 Sep 2024 10:28:39
Agree dbrooks.
31 Aug 2024 12:06:11
Good post W16. Thanks to all the eds particularly 002 over the window.
Ed002, how do you think the window has gone for united?
Obviously not perfect but do you see marked improvements in our approach and strategy over other years?
Finally where do you think we could have perhaps done things in a better way and got a different result over some summer transfer approaches or sales?
Thanks again I don't go into the other pages but I'm sure it's the same sort of Insights you give for all the supporters. Fair play to you it's great that you give the time to share those. ????.
{Ed002's Note - Still having Eriksen, Maguire, Evans, Casemiro and Antony is not ideal. I would have expected more effort on a goalkeeper and a LB.}
28 Aug 2024 20:02:17
Great buy by Liverpool. He is a really good player. He will take the load of salah and Diaz as he play either side. He will make a very good contribution there i think.
Hopefully his injuries are behind him. He won't play every week I think but what a good player to have to call on. We had no interest I don't think and I've read that he would only consider a cl club.
I think it will be a hectic last 2 days with players moving all over. A few mad ones and possible loans for good players.
Will we get another 1 or 2 in remains to be seen I've high hopes but low expectations. Hope to see a couple more leave anyhow.
28 Aug 2024 15:43:57
Great note we need another forward in. ?.
09 Sep 2024 16:19:14
Drop by again when you have a sensible question.
Nearly everybody from experts to fans can see it maybe you can't. Perhaps everybody in the world of football is wrong and your right. But I doubt it.
09 Sep 2024 16:17:05
Welcome sully.
We have a better squad but the answer is no for me and I can't remember a worse position we have been in football wise for 40 years due to the man at the helm.
From a business perspective we are in much better shape.
Three u turn the did in the summer on the manager fell will set us back 12 months imo but lots of other things have improved for sure.
09 Sep 2024 16:09:46
Ahmad you are not dumb when it comes to business.
The outlay on players has been circa 700m
The number after sales of players does not just come off the top of that number. The accounting will not be aligned and the accounts do not work that way.
Redman is correct during his tenure we have spent in excess of 700m on players plus all the various additional costs that go with that.
It's not an opinion it's a matter of fact.
How much of the 160m in income from players sales is profit? Not the full 160m that's for sure. That's why you can't simply deduct 1 from the other.
Google simple accounting and you'll understand.
08 Sep 2024 14:48:47
Angel we spent more than 480m he is talking nonsense. You can't dispute transfer fees they are a matter of fact not opinion but I appreciate your input.
It's not an opinion it's just a small matter of basic affing numbers together.
United have outspent City comfortably o er the past 5 or 6 seasons.
08 Sep 2024 09:22:39
Some just don't understand redman.