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07 Jul 2023 19:33:09
Romano reporting that Onana deal pretty much done and that it will be completed by end of next week. United expect him to be on the US tour.
Excited for a new goalkeeping era, I thought DDG would end up signing a new deal to be perfectly honest. Mixed emotions on that one, David will go down as a United legend. One of my favourite players of all time. But football moves on and Onana will completely revolutionise our counter attacking style.
1.) 08 Jul 2023 07:42:04
One of your favourite players of all time. Jeez.
Just don’t get this DDG love in. Above average goalkeeper who won many personal awards because he was in a below average United side. Poor at crosses and commanding area. Always had a mistake in him. Last season helped knock us out of Europa and awful in Cup Final. Tried to move on numerous occasions. Payed way above what he was worth. Nowhere near the standard of Edwin (please get better soon) or Schmikes.
Regardless of how his departure has been handled (think about NHS staff and teachers for some perspective) it’s no worse than Keane or RVN who made far greater contributions to the club.
Personally swapping him for Onana will be best bit of business this summer for me.
2.) 08 Jul 2023 08:25:29
Just my opinion. Got a soft spot for keepers and I think in terms of shot stopping he’s up there with the best we’ve had. I think he was on a similar level to Peter. Not as commanding or as dominant, but athletically in terms of shot stopping he was.
Besides, he hasn’t left the club yet. He may sign a contract on reduced terms and fight for his place.
And bringing the NHS and teaching profession into your comment was a cheap shot. Don’t care what profession your in, whether it be a multi million pound footballer or an NHS janitor, everyone deserves to be treated with respect.
3.) 08 Jul 2023 08:41:37
fireman agree re nhs comment but let's be real- ddg was treat well 375000 a week well and respect is a two way thing. Did he treat mufc with respect contractually? remember the madrid fiasco? He played his part but was very well, some would say too well, rewarded for it- its time to change as the game has but ddg hasn't and unfortunately that has put a stain on an otherwise very decent career.
4.) 08 Jul 2023 09:53:28
Unfortunately the game and style of play the top teams want to play has passed DDG by with ball playing being such a key part. At 32 I am not sure he will be able to adapt this game enough to be what we need, I am convinced he would improve but when the pressure comes he will revert to what he is comfortable with.
I have loved having DDG down the years but been fully aware of his failings which also include dominance in the box and crosses, but overall he has been a top goalkeeper.
For modern football he has suffered from a series of managers who have not wanted to play this way and defenders who also can't do it. If he chooses his next club wisely he will again be seen as a top goalkeeper, just not what we need for the next evolution of EtH team.
5.) 08 Jul 2023 11:04:29
Unless Onana learns to catch the ball and also how not to parry the ball back into dangerous areas we might not be much better off- except he can kick the ball accurarately which is what the hipster fans tell us is now essential although Banks, Yashin, Shilton, Bonetti, clemmence, VDS seemed to do ok by throwing the ball out once they had done the hard part which was generally thought to be the saving of shots and denying the opposition goalscoring opportunities.
6.) 08 Jul 2023 14:58:49
Those goalkeepers also could pick up back passes and mostly played with defenders who used their heads more than their feet. Football has evolved and players have too, Allison is probably the most important signing liverpool have made in a decade and revolutionised how they play as he can sweep, do 1 on 1 and is strong with his feet.
7.) 08 Jul 2023 17:21:22
But the one thing that never changes and never can change is that first and foremost a keeper has to be good with their hands and good at reducing chances from the opposition . Its the same thinking that has people excited about attacking fullbacks, yes its good but in another generation we will see less and less good defenders, its already happening now.
8.) 09 Jul 2023 07:02:01
If you don't change with the times you get left behind, we've seen that to a certain extent with Jose. Madrid tried to match peps City like we did a couple of times against that 09-13 Barcelona squad and got played off the park. Meanwhile inter should have beaten them because they managed to hold them off by playing deep and onanas calmness on the ball helped that. Even players like haaland change things, teams had to change the way they set up because he was so powerful and direct. In 50 years time maybe the 442 will be back revolutionary and a cryogenically frozen big sam will awaken and dominate world football.
18 Jun 2023 16:57:50
Just read that Ruben Neves is the latest player to be courted by Saudi. I get the money aspect, but surely he’s got more to offer in Europe first. He’s 26 and in the last year of his contract…. I think he’s a cracking player, would much rather have him than MM. Was really impressed when I saw him at Old Trafford, had a real calm presence about him.
Do any of the admins know if we still retain any interest in him?
{Ed002's Note - Manchester United has moved on.}
1.) 18 Jun 2023 18:19:56
I think he'd be okay as a Casemiro alternative at the base of midfield, albeit in a very different mould of a No.6.
But I'm not sure he's a great fit for EtH's No.8 where he wants a combination of energy and defensive work rate off the ball and creativity and ball carrying ability on it.
Neves doesn't have the mobility or pace to play that style of No.8.
Having him as a controlling 6, taking the ball off the defence, breaking the first line of pressure and dictating play is what he's best at. But without a defensively diligent and mobile no.8 alongside him he can be overan.
2.) 18 Jun 2023 18:41:30
Feels like we are seeing a new version of the Chinese league from a few years back, whether it survives longer only time will tell but could be likely as these big contracts seem to be centrally based with then allocated to the next team to spread the top players
I doubt this will be the last surprise signing.
3.) 18 Jun 2023 19:02:30
Just posted something similar fireman. can't believe that players in their prime are going to saudi for the money. It seems the game really is becoming just a money game these days. I get it at the end of a player's career. But it is not that long ago that Neves was rumored to be a Barcelona bound player.
4.) 18 Jun 2023 20:49:42
I think there's a little shift in Saudi this season. It's not just players at the ends of their careers going there for a final pay day, but increasingly younger players looking for a quick buck too who are maybe not so fussed about European honours. Maybe if it escalates further it will one day be the cream of the players being tempted.
5.) 18 Jun 2023 21:15:57
Not sure why nobody can believe this? They’re transient employees who have a shelf life on earnings. Why not go? Ronaldo was the big one they bagged and others will now follow.
Heck I’d go to Saudi for 2-3 years if it made me a millionaire a few times over and come home.
{Ed014's Note - you forgot you need to actually be able to play footy Eric! ?
6.) 19 Jun 2023 08:05:28
The fatal flaw in my plan Ed14.
{Ed014's Note - albeit a good one bar that minor hiccup ?
7.) 19 Jun 2023 11:27:13
I do play 5 aside to an appalling standard regularly I’ll have you know. Might qualify me for a 12 month deal with an option to extend.
8.) 20 Jun 2023 15:21:21
I played in the Saudi league in 90’s. There was brown envelopes in your shoes even back then. Playing in front of 1 man and his dog in huge stadiums on occasions.
Sad to see players at the top of their profession heading there now if I’m honest. It’s not like you’re not set up for life in any top league anyway.
But maybe becoming “super wealthy” not just footballer wealthy appeals to some. I still have my first pay check £29.50 a week YTS apprentice and was happy with that.
{Ed002's Note - This is all happening on the back of a successful World Cup in the Middle East and the need to seek alternate income to oil. Sport has become a major focus for investment - as will tourism.}
9.) 20 Jun 2023 20:10:00
It’s one thing big events like world cups etc going there. Dubai has had golf, tennis, cricket, Rigby 7’s, horse racing for years.
I can’t blame the Saudis for pushing the tourism angle and oil alternatives. I made a decent living there and enjoyed the place.
Even big world title boxing can produce great ticket sales. But it’s the top level players turning away from meaningful league titles, champions leagues etc just for money seems hard to grasp.
14 Jun 2023 19:04:05
Fabrizio stating that we’ve offered 40 million for MM which has been rejected straightaway. They want 70, but we are expected to go back in.
1.) 14 Jun 2023 20:47:13
What I don't understand and perhaps Ed002 can help if he isn't busy.
Why would United speak to Chelsea for two weeks, only to offer a below par offer
I mean, surely the talking is discussing price? So if that's the case, why offer an amount officially that will not be accepted?
{Ed002's Note - There would have been some discussion and now an opening offer.}
2.) 14 Jun 2023 21:05:12
This transfer seems a certain one and we'll end up paying about 60m. The big concern is the striker at this moment.
3.) 14 Jun 2023 21:30:02
Anywhere around £50m plus add ons and it’s a good deal all round.
4.) 14 Jun 2023 21:31:53
Many thanks Ed002 for the reply.
Can I ask if United have enquired about any other Chelsea players in recent discussions? Unofficially of course.
I know you are pretty close to Chelsea officials.
5.) 14 Jun 2023 21:33:04
Sydney
Negotiations work like that, both sides want differences amounts.
6.) 14 Jun 2023 21:54:33
Red Man, obviously, but why talk to Chelsea for 3 weeks, obviously discussing price, then to offer an amount below the acceptable price.
What was the point of the 3 week discussions leading up to a bid? Seems rather pointless? What did they talk about before?
7.) 14 Jun 2023 22:07:44
They probably couldn’t agree, Chelsea want far too much and we don’t want to fund their rebuild. Chelsea say we want £70m and we are not going to want to pay that, hoping to meet in the middle.
8.) 14 Jun 2023 22:43:51
But there were discussions, Chelsea would say what they want, we say what we want to pay. In the 3 weeks that's when discussion on price is happening. Unofficially we are offering a price, they are declining etc. Negotiating if you will, so Why then would we publicly offer an amount that they won't accept? Seems amateurish to me that's all, or these bids are for the show. Chelsea want to look like they are playing hardball for their fans? Idk. One thing I will say is it does look nailed on now.
We still need a GK, CB, CM and prolific striker. And if outgoings allow, a good attacking RB.
9.) 14 Jun 2023 23:39:16
There are many different styles/ approaches to negotiating. it is rare in the commercial world for a multi million pound deal to be instantly agreed. Let's just wait and see what transpires.
10.) 15 Jun 2023 08:24:47
Hopefully £50m is out cut-off point and we'll get him for something towards that.
If Newcastle get Barella for £50m and Liverpool get MacAllister for £35m then to spend towards £70m for Mount immediately makes him the latest player we've massively overpaid for in recent years.
11.) 15 Jun 2023 08:48:57
We're always told that 'x team has been working hard on this deal for weeks'.
I'm pretty naive to what goes on in the background with a transfer.
Other than trying to deduce what fee is going to be demanded and making an offer with a quick email lol, what does 'working hard' on a deal actually mean?
I can appreciate there's a lot of cat and mouse going on - the selling club will pretend they're not interested for weeks, the buying club will avoid showing their hand and making an actual offer for as long as they can. but what's the hard work?
12.) 15 Jun 2023 09:28:40
It will happen.
Mount want's the move, Chelsea either sell this summer or loose him for nothing nest summer.
13.) 15 Jun 2023 09:29:50
I think people hear that talks have been held for weeks and assume that the club's and agents have been hauled up in some office somewhere for 6 hours a day every day.
Agents tend to represent dozens of clients and will be working on many deals for many clients every day.
While clubs also have a handful of people who can deal with these negotiations and they are needed to work on every transfer and new contract at the club. So will also have loads of jobs to do each day.
It could easily take a day or two of wrangling just to find a time when all parties can sit down and talk.
Weeks of discussions could put literally be a few hours over several weeks.
14.) 15 Jun 2023 12:38:24
It's a bit like Bargain Hunt where David Dickinson goes in, sees an antique he likes and says, what's the best you can do on that.
The dealer ums and ahs, Dickinson looks pensive, the dealer comes back with a price, Dickinson points out a few issues, they meet half way and shake hands, Dickinson gets out the readies.
United should hire DD, he can spot a bargain.
15.) 15 Jun 2023 19:10:25
Woodward already tried the overpriced antiques market recruitment strat, he just forgot about the good price part.
16 Aug 2022 20:22:34
According to Romano, the Rabiot deal is OFF due to his wage demands…….
Another bullet dodged.
1.) 16 Aug 2022 20:38:54
For good.
2.) 16 Aug 2022 20:45:00
The club is dodging so many bullets that they’ll end the transfer window with McFred. Not that I think Rabiot was the solution, but the club is clearly struggling to find players willing to join and scrambling around in the last two weeks of the transfer window.
3.) 16 Aug 2022 20:59:49
He was never a player I wanted, so in a way I'm glad he hasn't signed.
However, what I'm really happy about is the club having enough sense not to fold and give him a huge contract.
With all of the bad press around the club they could have easily given in, and paid him what his mummy asked for just to get a signing done and try and create some positivity.
The fact that they seemingly have made a conscious, sensible decision NOT to just throw money at the problem like throwing sh1t on the wall and hoping some sticks, is actually a positive step forward in my opinion.
4.) 16 Aug 2022 21:32:55
At this stage United efforts to get a midfielder look desperate and everyone will up their fee. Rabiot was only a good deal at the right price.
Caicedo seems to be next on the United transfer merry go round. Expect a few weeks of lowball bids followed by a desperate lunge at the end of the transfer window for anyone who has ever played in midfield.
5.) 16 Aug 2022 21:37:31
Good news unless the club becomes even more desperate as the month ends and they throw the Rabiot money at someone even less desirable like Fellaini in 2013.
6.) 16 Aug 2022 21:52:30
As other posters have said, proud of the club for not giving in to a parasite like Rabiot and his lunatic mothers demands. He probably banged a bit on his wage demand knowing full well we are in s*** state.
7.) 16 Aug 2022 22:03:25
Wonder where this leaves Garner? I thought they wanted to sell him to help with the Rabiot fee?
8.) 16 Aug 2022 22:18:00
You’ve got to start ask questions of John Murtough. How is he selling the project to potential players? l dudes been to Spain and Turin to finalise deals and he’s returned empty handed.
9.) 16 Aug 2022 22:32:20
Simply put, murtough is utterly useless at his job. After this shambles of a transfer window and the embarrassment he has caused the club, he really should be sacked on 1st September. But in truth all should be kicked out the club.
10.) 16 Aug 2022 22:39:01
Glad we did not give in and stood our ground. maybe finally seeing the light.
11.) 17 Aug 2022 00:07:51
It's all good until you are all crying at the end of the transfer window that we have to rely on those two useless idiots in midfield.
12.) 17 Aug 2022 01:30:52
Very nice RW, I imagine those two useless idiots are 5 times the humans you appear to be with comments like that.
13.) 17 Aug 2022 02:16:33
Give it a rest dodgy, they are both utterly useless. Absolute liabilities on and off the ball. couldn't give a toss if they have had the odd good game, they are not good enough for a top 6 team nevermind to challenge for the title.
Too much sentiment'hes one of our own' 'but he puts in the effort and graft'. Yeah okay but they're still rubbish players.
14.) 17 Aug 2022 06:32:42
I’m sorry but although most of us seem these players rubbish and not the standard we need or are used to, their certainly not rubbish players!
They are all far better than what their showing but their so bereft of confidence it’s staggering! Hence why our fan base need to be better, this group of players ( although I like others dislike a lot of them ) need us lot more than ever on their side!
15.) 17 Aug 2022 07:06:02
Mctominay and fred aren't rubbish? I'll put down the whiskey and switch to smoking whatever your on Chris.
16.) 17 Aug 2022 08:07:12
To be fair to the likes of Scott, Fred they are supposed to be decent lads who want to play for Manchester United. But the fact of the matter is they aren’t good enough. They don’t have the class or technical ability to succeed here.
17.) 17 Aug 2022 08:08:00
So much for only signing first or at a push second targets. We literally can't even get 4-5th choice.
18.) 17 Aug 2022 09:12:31
Someone mentioned Fellaini above. Christ, I think I’d take someone similar at this point in time. At least he’d show some battling qualities and actually provide a presence in the side.
19.) 17 Aug 2022 10:25:17
If they keep dodging bullets is it any wonder Utd fire only blanks.
07 Aug 2022 12:03:37
Any truth in the rumour we’ve bid somewhere in the region of €8/ 9 million for Marko Arnautovic?
Struggling with this one of true, both in terms of quality and attitude. Again at the price would reinforce my theory we aren’t exactly flush.
{Ed002's Note - I would need to check.}
1.) 07 Aug 2022 12:15:36
Seem to remember him being a prima dona at West Ham and Hammers fans hated him.
2.) 07 Aug 2022 12:24:01
He has just one goal less than Osimhem.
3.) 07 Aug 2022 12:58:09
Old, difficult, banned for racism.
No thanks.
4.) 07 Aug 2022 16:54:50
Ok. If all are crying NO. It means United would certainly after it. and make a face like they have got a world beater.
5.) 07 Aug 2022 21:35:55
Reports that a bid has been rejected for him. Hope that ends our interest because he is an awful signing and reinforces the view that we are going in circles.
Stick one of the academy players on the bench rather than a hasbeen with questionable views.
6.) 07 Aug 2022 22:38:36
The more I think about it the worse it gets.
FiremanC's banter posts with other poster's replies to FiremanC's banter posts
20 Oct 2023 08:26:33
I’m a bit of a stick in the mud with certain things, and I should be more forward thinking. But I’m struggling to see what a cycling guru like Dave Brailsford is going to bring to the party. Perhaps all the players might start using ‘inhalers’……….
1.) 20 Oct 2023 09:45:15
They might get some players match fit
at least on spin bikes. The side looks a yard off the pace at least so far.
2.) 20 Oct 2023 10:47:48
I've been reading up a bit on him, as didn't have a scoobies. The mastermind behind Team Sky (as it was), and the whole marginal gains philosophy. Sporting success has been light for a few years for Ineos, maybe Utd can be the catalyst?
Saying that there seems to be concerns about him in particular.
3.) 20 Oct 2023 11:15:29
Of all the concerns I have regarding the Ineos, SDB being in charge of the Ineos sporting portfolio and overseeing the changes we need on behalf of the owners would be the least of my concerns. The guy is a very successful sports administrator, has football guys under him at Ineos and is better placed to put in the right people than the owners and on behalf of the owner. If he can manage to get one appointment right, someone with competence and vision to run the football side of things, he will go a long way to curing our ills.
Sadly whilst he may find a lot of asthma sufferers in the ranks, I doubt there is a treatable medical condition that will allow some of our clowns to actually read the game and be where they need to be.
4.) 20 Oct 2023 11:49:43
I’ve sussed it we don’t need anyone except a top optician because they all seem to be colour blind as they can’t pick out a red shirt.
5.) 20 Oct 2023 15:26:12
Brailsford will bring in some top quality doctors ? look at the miracles worked with Wiggins and Froome ?.
6.) 20 Oct 2023 18:15:07
No coincidence that Ineos haven’t won a bean since he got rumbled….
7.) 20 Oct 2023 19:01:38
The standard of PED testing in football is so poor it should not be an issue.
8.) 20 Oct 2023 21:26:18
Depends on what level he'll be working and the role he'll have. As sporting strategist I'm sure he'll bring something. As a DoF he wouldn't have the connections and understanding of the specifics of the sport to really thrive in that role. Although rumours that Paul Mitchell is to join the club are strong. Mostly centred around the fact that he has bought aa new house in the north west and has turned down other job offers apparently, almost like he is expecting to get a job closer to home some time soon. Who knows. Let's see how all of this shakes out.
9.) 20 Oct 2023 23:06:00
My main concern is that Joel Glazer. wants to be part of the sporting committee. After all, he apparently referred to Martial as the French "Pele".
10.) 21 Oct 2023 09:33:41
MH- I’m not concerned by that.
The glazers are still majority shareholders so still have a duty of care imposed on them. They can’t be completley absent.
Ratcliffe will have it set up that he has the final say imo.
11.) 21 Oct 2023 11:12:04
Caolan_2
That's a good point that you've made. I never thought of it like that.
04 Oct 2023 19:32:19
So at the minute, Onana is looking like an African Taibi……. but for Inter he’s been a superb goalkeeper and Eric believes in him. No keeper is going to come to our rescue and we can all get bleary eyed about DDG and Schmeich’s, but Andre is our number 1 and we need to get behind him. He isn’t going to improve and settle with us if he’s getting pelters every week.
1.) 04 Oct 2023 20:13:52
Onana almost single handedly lost us the game against Bayern and Gala.
Pressure is getting the better of him.
We need to get behind him as we did with DDG during his calamitous start.
2.) 04 Oct 2023 20:27:08
Singlehandedly, oh come on lads. He's been here 5 minutes. Bet you were full of praise for DDG when he had his first season.
Onana is a fine keeper and will be okay.
3.) 04 Oct 2023 20:56:03
My problems with him are that the errors are all widely different.
He's fumbled crosses, he's let in ridiculously easy saves, he's misplaced passes.
The 3rd goal yesterday was horrendous though. He fell to the ground and made the strikers mind up, it was absolutely woeful and at a time when the whole team is struggling, you really can't be having a keeper making the amount of errors he's making.
4.) 04 Oct 2023 21:01:47
Angel couldn’t agree more.
5.) 04 Oct 2023 21:31:05
Two really bad errors in champions league games is pretty inexcusable in my opinion.
I think he's been fine in the league tbh, don't think any goals he's conceded have been his fault.
Playing behind 57 different defensive combinations hasn't helped matters either, the whole team is defending abysmally, particularly Casemiro who seems to want to play up front half the time likes he's playing a kids match.
6.) 04 Oct 2023 21:43:39
If it was me, Onana is getting dropped.
But ETH won't do that since he's ex-Ajax.
When did we settle for mediocrity?
If he's having a difficult time he needs to sit on the bench and reflect and fix his basic issues.
The keeper behind him in heaton and bayindir deserve a chance. We are not Onana FC.
7.) 04 Oct 2023 22:00:42
It's a tough one with goalies. Fergie dropped Leighton, and he also dropped Dave for a while, just to take him out of the spotlight more than anything. People forget how Dave was hammered at the start. But he had strong enough character to see it as a challenge. Jim didn't unfortunately.
How would Onana react? It's a fine line to walk with goalies, probably more than any other position.
Personally, I've noticed a big improvement in playing out from the back. Most teams don't even bother pressing him the way they did with Dave, because they know 9 times out of 10, he'll be grand.
We knew there would be clangers playing that way, but that's the way we all wanted to play.
Give him time.
8.) 04 Oct 2023 22:03:18
Backpass we settled for mediocrity the day Fergie and Gill left the club.
9.) 04 Oct 2023 22:21:39
Blackpool Red
It started when the Glazers arrived, not the day SAF and Gill left. No value in the market and SAF bringing back the retired Scholes, clinging on to the CO92 and wringing everything from players he bought pre Glazer.
10.) 05 Oct 2023 00:30:04
Fergie was partly to blame for the Glazers coming in and would have gotten (And still is) getting very rich from the Glazers for his silence.
11.) 05 Oct 2023 06:13:05
Drop onana? Come on people get a grip, he’s been here two minutes! Huge pressures being United number 1 and dropping him creates even more! He’ll be fine! Replace him with Heaton or the kid? Come on, we’re desperate to get some stability in the 11 and people want to drop our gk!
12.) 05 Oct 2023 10:00:29
So drop the guy who got to the semis and final of cl and replace him with a guy yet to play a game in a must win game.
What happens if the new guy makes a mistake if you guys get your wish against Brentford who will bombard us with crosses.
Has anyone even seen him play to be asking for Onana to be dropped or is it typical we now have a new guy we want to hate and take out their frustration. The press/ pundits do plenty of that no need to join in.
Onana with a decent back 4 who do not hide from receiving the ball and can defend will be a really good goalkeeper.
13.) 05 Oct 2023 12:22:27
Unfortunately, like I posted during our pre-season tour when he was so far forward he got lobbed, we're just going to have to accept that with a ball-playing goalkeeper (who also likes to go a little rogue), come huge risks. He's been directly responsible for a handful of goals against us. But I don't want to bash the guy, as having this type of keeper helps our play too. It's like having an extra outfield player, like Pep said. I think the pace of the Prem is a helluva lot quicker than the Dutch and Italian leagues so he's not getting as much time to think about his passes and a few have gone amiss. Nothing any of our mids don't do but of course GK errors tend to lead to a chance.
14.) 06 Oct 2023 10:47:06
Ahmed what difference does it make he got to a champs league final, this is different league different season, different team, different manager, got zero relevance whatsoever, I seen many players over the years who won many things does not mean to say they are great players or suit a certain league or style, what’s been good from Onana so far, people say his kicking well I not even seen so much of that, Emerson kicking goes directly in a controllable fashion to one of his team mates, Onana more often then now is a punt upfield, if that’s what I ]t takes to make a good goalkeeper put Bruno in goal.
29 Jul 2023 19:49:33
Welcome to Old Trafford Rasmus. Deal done.
24 Jul 2023 09:35:45
A few transfer thoughts on a rainy Monday morning.
It now appears that BvB have agreed a €19 million deal for Marcel Sabitzer. Whilst I don’t think he was ever going to serve as a bombproof starter, for that sort of money I think he would have improved our squad. He always did a job when he came on, and he had the technical ability to hold, go box to box or support the front 3. Scott possibly fills the same role, but I think Sabitzer was technically better and therefore a cheap squad upgrade. Having said that, the boy Mainoo looks like he’s the real deal, so maybe ETH thinks we have enough in there. Amrabat is quality and the most likely midfield incoming, but my hunch is that we’ll probably go with what we have in the middle with either Fred or Scott going (most likely the former)
Noises made from the Spurs ownership that they are in a similar situation with Kane as PSG are with Mbappe. In that, they don’t want to lose out on decent income for him. In my mind there’s no way Kane stays at Spurs, it’d be financial suicide given his age and how much they’d still get for him. This could play into our hands, because if Kane decided that he 100% wanted to stay in the Prem with us, it would give us massive leverage towards the end of the window. Got to be honest, I thought Tottenham were going to keep him until the bitter end and risk losing him for free, but I guess money might eventually talk. I’m of the opinion that we’d be better off focusing on the next big striker, and we seem to be doing that with Hoijland (although it remains to be seen if he’s good enough) I’ve always thought that we were one or two seasons too late for Kane. BUT……. if it comes to the last couple of weeks of the window and we manage to leverage a position with Spurs where they are forced to sell to us for say 50-60 million, I think even my opinion would be swayed to go for him.
Everything takes time and I appreciate that our finances are delicate at this moment, but if we need funds from sales then I’m a bit disappointed that we haven’t managed to shift many of the burdens we still have in order to increase our bargaining position. In an ideal world we’d have deals in place to shift Maguire, Martial and Fred by now. Maguire won’t be short of offers but it would absolutely hinge on his desire to play football and take a pay cut. Sadly Martial won’t be going anywhere due to wages and his injury record. I doubt any club would take a punt on him. Ironically been (allegedly) one of the Glazers favourite players, he’s a shining symbol of their ownership…….
Goalkeeping wise, I actually think we are ok in this department. Onana as number 1 and Kovar as number 2. Massively impressed by Kovar, that loan last year has done him the world of good. Although I was thinking about if there was any scenario or possibility that DDG actually comes back to the club. He’s obviously settled in the UK, and if he doesn’t receive any offers (unlikely I know) would there ever be a situation where United say to him “come back (on reduced terms) and be back up to Onana and there’s a long term coaching spot for you”
Only time will tell, but I reckon we’ll be busy towards the end of the window.
1.) 24 Jul 2023 09:55:22
FiremnanC - I think you will see a few moved on in the next few weeks.
Elanga to Forest for 15 million looks done.
Telles - around 6 million to a Saudi club is done.
Henderson to Forest is in the process of being done. Not sure of the price but i would think 20-25 million.
Fred - 10-15 million to Fulham or a Saudi club.
Bailly - 2 million to a Saudi club.
I would think Williams will be moved on for a small fee 3-5 million.
DVB will be moved on. We should be getting at least 20-25 million for him.
Maguire is the player i'm not sure of, if we can move him on we should be getting at least 30-35 million for him.
2.) 24 Jul 2023 10:18:52
Fireman, the problem with shifting players to raise funds is we need to sell them above their amortised value otherwise we are selling at a loss.
Amortisation is effectively the transfer fee and wages divided over the length of his contract.
In Maguires case that is the 80m plus his 9.8m a year wages divided over the 7 year deal he signed. Effectively meaning he costs us around 22m a season.
Given that he has 3 years left on his deal that means we would need to sell for around 66m to break even. Anything below that would be considered a loss and therefore wouldn't raise funds for a new purchase.
Players like Elanga, McTominay and Henderson as homegrown players would be the players who could raise the most as there is no transfer fee to amortise.
Players such as Maguire, Fred, Donny etc would need to be sold over a certain value to actually raise funds.
Even then depending on how those fees are paid and when it might not help this season.
3.) 24 Jul 2023 10:46:11
Amortisation!? Sorry mate, that’s way over my intellect level! Even if we sold Maguire for say 20 million, surely that’s 20 million towards a player we actually want and a saving of 9.8 million a year. I’m sure like you say it’s not as simple as that, but that’s how my tiny brain works!
4.) 24 Jul 2023 11:32:27
Fireman, when a player is signed the cost of the player is effectively speed over the length of their contract.
This is because a club doesn't own a player, they own the right to play that player over the length of their contract.
The cost of buying that right is then absorbed by the club over the length of that contract. This is called amortisation.
Now Maguire cost 80m in transfer fee, and around 65m in wages over the length of his contract. Which means he has cost the club a total of around 145m not including agents fees and bonuses etc.
The club absorbs that cost by spreading it over the length of his contract. Which means he costs the club between 20-22m per season. Effectively meaning that according to the accounts we have paid off 4 years of the 7 year deal which equates to between 80-88m of the 145m or so he costs the club.
Which means that according to the accounts Maguires is still an asset worth around 65m and selling below that amount would equate to a loss.
Which puts the club in a really difficult situation. Let's say the club sell for around 40m, and the buying club agree to pay 25m up front with the rest spread over the next 3 years.
On paper the club will have 25m going into the club accounts.
Yet the reality is that the club have sold an asset for 25m below its value. That loss is taken into account when calculating FFP and what the club can spend to stay within the rules.
So while there would be a little more money in a bank, we would actually reduce the total amount we could spend under FFP without breaking the rules.
So while it might help in that we wouldn't have to borrow so much money to pay for deals we have/ are agreeing right now. It reduces the amount we could spend on a replacement for Maguire.
From memory the amount the club could spend this summer without falling foul of FFP was around 150m. Once a deal for Højlund is completed then we will have spent everything we technically can.
Sell Maguire at a loss and it actually reduces that 150m we could spend within FFP.
Therefore any further signings will be limited to how much we can raise by selling players above their amortisation value and therefore counts as players sold for a profit.
The reality is players like Maguire, Fred, Donny, Telles, Bailly etc will likely bring the figure down on what we can spend as they will likely be sold at a loss on paper.
Big fees for players like Elanga, Henderson, McTominay and possibly Greenwood is probably the only way we could in theory release more funds to buy another player. Due to their amortisation value being just their wages left over the rest of their deal.
The issue is that we will need to spend what we get to replace them.
5.) 24 Jul 2023 11:46:51
Shappy, you don't hold the value of future wages on the balance sheet. Just the costs associated with purchase, including all associated fees such as agent etc.
Not sure what that would make his current carrying value, but maybe closer to 35-45m? Regardless, he need to go for the good of everyone.
6.) 24 Jul 2023 14:27:43
I think this is why Ed002 never wants to get into the financials, it is a mindfield and we never really know what they are doing on the accound.
However, it potentially explain why we have been aggressive with some of the youngsters, whilst they are not bringing in much it sounds like this will 100% help in against FFP. We could realistically end up with:
Elanga (£15m), Henderson (£20m), McTominy (£25m), Williams (£5m), Bailley - initial fee will have been amortised down by now (£5m), Iqbal (£1m) .
Our wages position will be in a positive position with DDG leaving also.
7.) 24 Jul 2023 14:45:55
Shappy, wages aren’t taken into account for amortisation.
8.) 24 Jul 2023 16:20:16
Brad 76 - Isn't this a fan site? Even if we're talking rubbish does it matter as long as we're having fun? If talk of finances is taboo, it removes a whole aspect of the game that fans like to conjecture about. The second part of your post demonstrates exactly what I'm saying. If the Eds want to step in that's great, but otherwise let us have at it. Criticize the content, by all means, but let the posts about finances stand.
9.) 24 Jul 2023 21:15:48
fuser,
that’s my understanding and unlike Shappys point it isn’t just a straight calculation dividing the total including wages over 7 years. Contract extensions also impact it.
People should keep away from numbers unless they have some knowledge.
10.) 24 Jul 2023 22:25:52
Amortisation is pretty much irrelevant. We pay the transfer fee up front. If we were paying the fee, including wages for an agreed period regardless of if the player remained then yes it would have some relevance. But the fact is he will cost us around 30mil and games if he stays. Get rid of him now….30mil saved. Simples.
11.) 25 Jul 2023 09:29:03
I'm pretty sure wages are amortised when dealing with FFP. At the very least wages will be counted in the accounts in terms of future costs when it comes to planning and deciding what the budgets are and the financial mobility of the club.
Wages left on a contract when that contract is terminated often have to be paid up, or at least an agreement has to be reached to pay up a proportion of it.
Typically when a player is moving "up" to a bigger club and on bigger wages the player waives the right to what is left to them on their contract.
However, it's far more complicated when a player moves "down" to a smaller club and having to accept lower wages. In those cases the selling club often have to pay up some or all of the remaining wages on a players contract.
In the case of Maguire he is on 189k per week. If he moves to West Ham or similar then you'd expect his wages to drop to closer to 100k per week. Over the three years he has left on his contract that is a difference in the range of 12-15m worse off in lost wages.
Why would he be so willing to accept earning the best part of 15m less than he was promised when he signed his contract?
If the club want to move him on then the minimum you can expect for a club would have to do is pay out the difference between his current wage and his future wages over the time he would technically still have left on his current deal.
12.) 25 Jul 2023 18:17:55
100k is 99k too much for Maguire if you ask me….
13.) 25 Jul 2023 18:56:17
Yes Shappy, we would have to come to an arrangement with a player who we want to move on who has a wage higher than the buying club will pay. He would not be obligated to accept anything not in his favour.
The club will also have to balance revenue, buying costs and wages when to meet FFP.
We also have to manage cashflow availability because some payments on previous purchases might not be completed yet.
The finances are very complicated, and we would have no idea the nuances of all the deals past present and future.
I was just commenting on the specific about future wages being in amortisation.
McGuire's wage structure (which now higher when we are un UCL aparently) will certainly be a challenge for both man utd and the buying club. I'm sure the 3 parties (including the player) will all try to pressure the others to take a hit. I don't anticipate it will be an easy negotiation.
14.) 25 Jul 2023 20:07:39
If any team plays £25m for Van De Beek they need their head testing.
15.) 25 Jul 2023 19:26:23
Maguire (reportedly) signed a 6+1yr option deal for £80m. So, if his asset value is amortized straight-line at £13.3m over 6 years, after 4 the NBV will now be £26m. Surely he's worth more than that even on his current £10m wage? If he's sold there should be a paper book profit on the sale. It would also remove £23.3m total from the coming year's expense (wage + amortization) . If nothing else happened how could that be bad from an FFP profit point of view?
Of course the issue is by whom he would be replaced on the roster. If, for example it was Harry Kane, whose total wage (salary + annual amortization) is £35m+ it would reduce profit by £10m+.
I trust the new administration at the club to work towards staying within the FFP loss guidelines (I don't think the wage bill as a % of revenues is a problem at all), they know the exact numbers - unlike us. Ironically it may give us a bargaining advantage if selling clubs believe we have acute FFP problems and we will have to walk away from deals if they exceed certain levels.
Fred's contract has expired, and has been extended, so he should now be off the books as an asset. Likewise Martial, and McTominay, and Henderson. Telles probably yielded a small book profit and we're saving £5m in wages in the coming year.
Shappy, if I 've got the numbers wrong, please feel free to correct me, but I really don't see how selling any of the players mentioned above adds to United's FFP issues. Far from it. All sales will generate some profit pus the potential to benefit from a payroll reduction of maybe £20m a year.
16.) 26 Jul 2023 17:12:02
Shappy
Wages are not an amortized expense. They are an ongoing opex cost and different to how you account for wages. Maguire cost minus years at the club so far are amortized. what's on the books today is a straight unamortized posrtion of his cost and years left of his contract.
We seem to have options on all our contracts so not sure if we amortize in his cost over 6 or 7 years his cost.
Wages has nothing to do with amortization and maybe people confuse what's being reported as total cost which factors in wages.
17.) 26 Jul 2023 17:21:17
In simple terms let's say we have 30 million of his cost unamortized. As long as we get 30 million it has a net zero effect on our financials from a ffp point if view. Now we get to save In next years financials 10m in wages which impacts our overall profitabilty numbers from an ffp point of view given we did not lose money on the sale and were neutral.
19 Jun 2023 12:57:59
Now, I know he’s got the breaking strain of a melted Kit Kat……. but United willing to accept 2 million for Eric Bailly!? You wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole, but surely he’s worth more than 2 million?
On the flipside, Atalanta are allegedly asking €70 million for Rasmus Hojlund……go figure.
1.) 19 Jun 2023 14:20:05
I would give him away for free.
2.) 19 Jun 2023 15:31:37
Bailly unfortunately due to the injuries (see Martial for the same situation) is not worth the value that his abilities should be. He is unable to stay fit and any new club will know this and will not be willing to invest much money into that. aside from him likely being a top earner as well.
We have to accept this and get what we can whilst getting him off the wage bill. realistically anything between £5-10m I would see as a bonus.
3.) 19 Jun 2023 15:42:44
If a player is offering nothing to us, can’t stay fit and is costing us money on wages, it is better to get whatever we can for them and remove those wages.
Bailly isn’t up to it and is always injured. Take the £2m and everyone is happy.
Same with Martial who earns a pretty penny. Let him go cheap and someone might pay him more in wages and get him out of the club.
4.) 19 Jun 2023 16:41:40
Would rather keep him than the “captain”, both are calamities but Bailly is at least more entertaining.
5.) 19 Jun 2023 16:43:48
I’m not saying I wouldn’t get rid for 2 million, but I’d have thought even with his record he’d command between 5 and 10.
6.) 19 Jun 2023 16:54:35
2 million. I'd take 2 Beyonce tickets and I wouldn't go see her if she was playing in my backyard.
7.) 19 Jun 2023 17:55:08
£4m and I’d throw Martial in with Bailly. Think of the savings in wages for those two alone. No one is going to want Bailly or Martial for anything like a decent fee, especially Martial on his wages and with his injury record and the fact he is garbage.
HM we should get a good few million for as he is an England international, no matter what we think of him. I would take £30m for the three.
8.) 19 Jun 2023 18:16:59
It’s not just his £2m fee though, it’s his wages also. Perhaps we have to take a hit on his fee because he’s on high wages.
9.) 19 Jun 2023 19:14:32
Pay up his contract and have done with it.
10.) 19 Jun 2023 19:44:43
He’s terrible. Always has been.
11.) 19 Jun 2023 21:03:43
You know what, if Bailly could stay fit and get a run of games…. I think there’s a player in there to be honest. He impressed when he first came.
12.) 20 Jun 2023 00:24:55
Too late for him that's the problem too many chances.
13.) 20 Jun 2023 06:13:24
Turn it on its head. If Bailly was playing for another club, and was injured for almost 4 years, was rash and erratic when he played, and was on a high wage, how much would you be prepared to pay for him?
14.) 20 Jun 2023 07:54:02
He was rash and erratic when we bought him and he only had one decent season, so £30million.
15.) 21 Jun 2023 09:12:44
That's the Utd way Grim.
Lad can be pretty decent, probably worth £25m based on average performance, but he's erratic and hugely injury prone, so we'd pay 30!
19 Nov 2023 07:57:08
Rangersred is entitled to his opinion is he not? After all it’s a discussion forum! Bit of digression beats the same boring monopoly…….
31 Oct 2023 08:35:32
Agree with that Shappy. We don’t have the defenders for that system your right.
31 Oct 2023 08:34:34
To come on here to disclose a rumour and not go into detail is quite arrogant Ahmad tbh. This is a forum where (hopefully) real fans can chat and be honest with each other. Why can’t you disclose what information you know? No disrespect but your nobody in relation to Manchester United and to come on here with little bits and pieces makes me think that your either full of BS or you think your a big shot (which you obviously aren’t) Sorry if this sounds abrupt, but share what you’ve ‘heard’ or don’t say anything.
31 Oct 2023 08:27:03
Graham Potter………no no no no
Supported United through thick and thin and handed over season ticket money for nearly 20 years, but the state of the club is driving me to despair……. it’s actually doing me in because it’s all I think about.
ETH has to see out his contract at least, I agree with Richard Arnold, we have made progress. Maybe not on the pitch, but in the mentality of taking the power away from the players and back into the hands of the manager. Forget the first season, it’s the honeymoon period where in more cases than not there’s kneejerk improvement. If we think about it, there was always going to be a step back before we stepped forward. Goes without saying when a manager tries to impose his philosophy on a football club. The acid test will be in the next two seasons.
If Chelsea season ticket holder Ratcliffe comes in waving a big stick and replaces ETH with Potter then I’m done I reckon.
26 Oct 2023 19:35:53
Wouldn’t be the worst thing imo. As long as he was comfortable with us holding all the cards instead of the other way round, I think he’d only bring positives to the goalkeeping group.
02 Nov 2023 18:50:05
That list should include the whole squad if you ask me. I don’t think there’s a good ‘un amongst them.
I think now we’re finally paying the price for a string of weak managers who’ve been petrified to move on sub standard players. I mean, Antony Martial……9 seasons and 89 goals……absolute joke. How is he still at the football club!?
01 Nov 2023 16:32:04
You’ve written about 10 A level essays today Shappy…. not much work at the minute?
26 Oct 2023 19:48:45
All I ever read is stats, stats, and more stats on here. It’s more like a legal forum than a banter forum! Mainly from armchair fans as well who don’t go week in, week out.
Rashford for me is underperforming. So is Bruno. I’m not doubting their quality, but at the minute they are regular starters and they just aren’t doing it. Both show glimpses of brilliance and I dare say the ‘stats’ back them up. But if we’re totally honest, neither get into the City side.
22 Oct 2023 21:26:13
I like Amrabat, he’s a good addition. Would have him in the starting 11 before Casemiro 100%. And don’t forget he’s only been with us a matter of months.
20 Oct 2023 18:15:07
No coincidence that Ineos haven’t won a bean since he got rumbled….