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14 Jan 2024 14:10:03
I've just read a piece about the prospect of Alvaro going to Benfica making it an easier win for the signature of Joao Neves - I sincerely hope this is rubbish.

If this is true, then the sheer arrogance that has made us look ridiculous for years still hasn't left.

I'd be stunned if he came to United at all, but the suggested 'offering' of a youngster given no gametime by the club as some kind of sweetener is pathetically desperate at best.

Ork

1.) 14 Jan 2024 14:29:35
I think developing a good relationship with Benfica is an excellent idea.

The generate so many quality players, smart move.

Silva and Neves are both targets and huge talents, we really need to develop and edge in the transfer market.

Alvaro Fernandez isn’t ready or good enough right now, and we have plenty of LBs at the club. Whilst I don’t agree with decision to Loan him and sign Regullion, tbf he performed when needed.


2.) 14 Jan 2024 15:54:57
Why is it bad business if Utd can come an arrangement with Benfica that benefits both parties.

I'm not saying that this is what is happening, but it does make sense.


3.) 14 Jan 2024 20:13:33
I was impressed with Fernandez tbh. We don’t have a wealth of left back’s and I’m surprised we’ve let him go. That said, the coaching staff will have seen him every day and will no doubt know more than us.


4.) 15 Jan 2024 11:31:53
Maybe the lad wants to play some football. Benfica are a huge club with a great reputation for building careers. Why not go there rather than not even getting on the bench at Utd or going back to Preston?


5.) 15 Jan 2024 14:09:44
Utd don't exactly have a great reputation at the moment for mapping out youth players careers.

I rate Fernandez, but going to Benfica is a really good move for him.


6.) 15 Jan 2024 16:37:31
Well could be worse ork they could put you in charge?
You've no idea of any of the facts but have decided it's ridiculous.
Do you know how ridiculous that is?


7.) 16 Jan 2024 20:26:22
João Neves looks a real top prospect, however, personally I'm not sure he's a player we should be chasing this summer.

Coming from Benfica you can be assured he'd cost something north of 80m. For a 19 year old with less than 40 professional games under his belt who has never played in a league as physical or competitive as the EPL that's a huge amount to gamble on him.

We also have the 18 year old Kobbie Mainoo in our squad who's arguably been out beat midfielder this season. I'm not sure Mainoo and Neves form a natural and complementary duo, and I'd be very surprised to see any manager regularly play two teenagers in the heart of midfield for United or for any team expecting to play regular UCL football.

Given our need to buy players who are ready to step up and play every week right now at the sharp end of the EPL, and the need bring in 5-6 players this summer I really can't see us spending the kind of money João Neves would cost on a young, unproven play like Neves.

Let's take a leaf out of Liverpool's book, they could have pushed for the 100m signing of star young midfielder Jude Bellingham last summer. But realised they needed to sign several players and couldn't afford to buy Bellingham AND the other players they needed so I stead they bought 4 midfielders and totally rebuilt their midfield.

I think signing 2-3 midfielders is the smarter option for us given the massive squad rebuild we need than spending big on one player who might not even be ready for the step up.

We kind of did that last summer in the striker department. Spent big on a young player who has massive potential but probably isn't ready to play every week for us. The difference is the striker market has far fewer good options and is massively overpriced. We should be able to scout 3 or 4 really top drawer midfielders who wouldn't cost the earth but would help totally change our side for the better.


 

 

 

Ork's banter posts with other poster's replies to Ork's banter posts

 

29 Feb 2024 13:01:54
And so comes the inevitable attempt from the Tutto-clowns to unsettle a coach from a Milanese club - this time Inzaghi being the subject of an 'approach' from United.

While it's clear that this is just buncombe, it does raise a little 'what if? ' - What would happen if we did get a coach so staunchly set to the 3-5-2?

From my understanding, it's not just the senior team using the flat-back-four - I believe the U21s and U18s also stick with the 4 too.

I'm sure there are some on here who get to watch the U21s and/ or U18s. Are the respective formations more varied, interchangeable and fluid or do you see a similar rigidity to the seniors?

Ork

 

 

12 Feb 2024 16:59:04
A lot of noise has been made about the injury problems of Martinez - plenty from myself, but, with Shaw's own injury issues, I think left-sided CB summer signing is perhaps now a priority.

Martinez, injured or not, needs decent competition from a proper CB. Shaw, despite being an adequate backup at left CB, is not the answer. I disagree completely with the narrative that he's a better CB than LB, but to each their own.
Evans is too old to become the answer and Maguire, irrespective of how dominant a force he can be, is, like Evans, not a natural on the left.

We have 5 proper CBs who are, at least predominantly, right-footed, but just one left-footed option.
Additionally, we have 2 senior LBs with major injury problems this season, as opposed to the 2 lesser-afflicted on the right.
Yet, there are those who would insist that neither Alvaro nor Brandon Williams are good enough - each is better than an option out injured.

First and foremost for me, defensively, as shown by this season, a natural left-sided CB must surely be the priority.
Secondly, we need to manage the load faced by Shaw and, if Malacia can't return to the level required, then we have to commit some faith in Alvaro or Williams.

So, do we splash out £60-£70m on a Bastoni or an Inacio, do we take the option of an overpriced big old lump like Branthwaite for £40-£50m, or do we take a punt on someone like Nuraly Alip for maybe £15-£20m?

Or instead, should we stick with 3 injury-prone options to cover 2 positions while we lazily focus only on the right side that has 7 options across 2 positions with only Varane as the standout injury problem?

For me, it's now a no-brainer.
Until yesterday, I was thinking maybe Shaw could become the answer, but seeing Lindelof at LB with Maguire at left CB reeks of defensive fragility.

I know Dalot can cover LB, but will we now see Lindelof at RB until another FB returns?

Between now and April, we have 6 PL games - one at the Etihad and 5 winnable. This will be the easiest remaining period for us to gather points, but now our defensive injury gremlins have reappeared.

That said, we're only 5 and 6 points behind Villa and Spurs respectively with a debatably easier run-in - we might yet just squeak our stinky little extruder into the top 4.

Ork

1.) 12 Feb 2024 18:19:29
I think Branthwaite is a fine prospect and doing well. I think he is a realistic option.
He looks better than Evans lindelof and maguire to me and I think he has a very good future ahead of him.


2.) 12 Feb 2024 18:35:02
We’ve been unfortunate with long term injuries this season at the back. Our left back has been out for most of it, and our back up left back is out pretty much for the season too. Martinez has been Nicky with injuries, but Varane is a liability fitness wise.

I think we need x2 new CBs and a RB in the summer.


3.) 12 Feb 2024 19:45:28
I think we should ideally look to sign two centre backs. However, I also think we should look to sign two midfielders. Given our limited depth in forward areas, that would mean at least 6 new signings this summer, which isn't going to happen.

With that in mind I think if we signed one centre back, either Todibo or De Ligt, and kept Maguire and Varane, that would cover us pretty nicely at the back, since Maguire can play left or right side. Even Lindelof can play left or right side, and actually played really well next to Varane last season during the final few weeks.

That would leave more money for those two midfielders, which will be essential with Eriksen, Amrabat, and Donny all leaving this summer. Right back can wait until next summer for me, partly because I don't think there are many right backs available that are good enough. Frimpong might not be suited to a back 4, mainly playing really high in a back 5 for Leverkusen and even playing as right forward. Mazroaui might be allowed to leave Bayern in the summer but I don't think he would be an improvement on Dalot, perhaps not even Wan Bissaka. Arnau Martinez is pretty solid but I'm not convinced the City Football Group would sell to United and again I don't he would offer any more than Dalot. Pedro Porro is a class player and would massively improve that side but Spurs would understandably demand huge money.


4.) 12 Feb 2024 20:23:52
I've said all along that ideally we sign two CB's this summer. I also think we need to sign two midfielders unless Casemiro is both able and willing to play one more season in more of a back up role. If not then we definitely need two midfielders, as Mainoo is the only other option.

Branthwaite would be a great option and we will probably need to look at signing some options that count as homegrown players given that Maguire, Evans, AWB, McTominay, Greenwood and Sancho are all players who could and probably should depart this summer.

Then a right sided CB such as Todibo or Antonio Silva. Although Tomori and Guehi would obviously also count as homegrown alternatives.

It would be good if we could sign a RB who could also play at CB in a pinch if needed, someone like Geertruida or Simakan.

One thing is for sure, until we get better defenders who can play with the ball and enable a better style of play, we will continue to have inconsistent results.

Lots of talk about wingers such as Olise. But I think it's the spine/ heart of the team that needs rebuilding.

Look at Liverpool last year and this. Completely changed the midfield and went from alsorans to contenders.

When the team defenders well and controls the ball we will improve in attack.

I'd leave RW this summer and then maybe have a look at Cole Palmer for summer 2025 if Chelsea haven't improved. A local lad with bags of ability and a great attitude by all accounts.

We also have a few young players who could in the next couple of years start pushing for a first team place. Harry Amass at LB, the Fletcher twins in midfield, Shea Lacey at RW.

We need to start to think about Thier pathway into the first team.


5.) 12 Feb 2024 21:41:38
Shappy, I would consider keeping Maguire and McTominay this summer - never thought I would say that. Maguire is a decent centre back and solid pro, and McTominay is a great option off the bench, and has been invaluable this season. I would also keep Varane another season as he is without question our best defender with Martinez out. If we keep Martinez, Maguire, Lindelof, and Varane this summer, then we could afford to sign only one centre back.

Equally, I would keep Casemiro as he is our best midfielder when fit, but I think we should still be looking to sign two midfielders this summer. Eriksen and Amrabat will leave, which leaves only Casemiro, Mainoo, Mount, Bruno, and Scott. Mainoo is still only 18, Casemiro can't play twice every week, and Scott isn't good enough to start. We need a number 6 to provide back up for Casemiro and eventually replace him or compete with a future signing and a number 8 to take the burden off Kobbie and potentially start alongside him this summer.

Then next summer we can allow Varane, Lindelof, Maguire and Casemiro and Scott to leave, potentially Bruno too, and sign two centre backs and a young defensive midfielder that can play at 6 or 8 next summer.

In an ideal world our midfield options would be Kamara, Thuram, De Jong, Mainoo, and Mount by 2025. Then we can stop playing a number 10 that doesn't offer any defensive stability or ball retention.


6.) 12 Feb 2024 21:43:32
Branthwaite was shrugged aside like a Playmobil toy for City's second. What is the love-in with this player, simply by his nationality he'll cost three times what a shreweder less glamourous name might once our amazing network of scouts across the globe kicks in.
I thought when Lindelof came on at LB he was lucky not to cost us, they were targeting that side. Fish out of water. From what I've seen of Malacia I don't think he's the answer either.


7.) 12 Feb 2024 22:29:09
Gilly, Maguire and McTominay have been decent for us this season, but neither are good enough to be first choice and we need to both raise funds and make space in the squad before we can sign anyone.

Sell both of them and that's 70 maybe 80m coming into the club for two players who just aren't good enough.

If we are shrewd with our signings we could replace both with more suited players who could and would likely be first choice.

Todibo is supposedly available for around 30-35m, which is probably around what we could get Maguire.

While a player I really like and think would be a great signing is Manu Kone from Gladbach. Again probably available for between 30-35m which is what we would likely get for McTominay.

Then if we get 25-30m for Varane and 40-50m for Casemiro from Saudi Arabia then we would have plenty to buy replacements who are more suited to how we want to play and with more longevity.

If someone will pay 20-25m for AWB then I'm fairly confident we could sign someone like Geertruida or Simakan for a similar fee to replace him. Again moving on a player who probably doesn't have a long term future and bringing in a player who could.

Selling Maguire, McTominay, Varane, Casemiro, and AWB and bringing in two CB's, two CM's and a RB for around what we make would in theory leave all our budget not including money made from sales to sign a striker.

While selling the likes of Donny, Hannibal, Pellistri, Greenwood and Sancho could further raise significant funds if the club were to try and make more than 5 or 6 signings this summer.


8.) 12 Feb 2024 23:57:52
I don't think we will allow that many players to leave this summer. Wan Bissaka will probably leave if we can a good enough offer, but I'm not convinced by the players that have been linked as a replacement. Simaken might be a useful signing as a back up right back, since he is also an adept centre back, but other than that, there are not many that would be a significant upgrade on Wan Bissaka, let alone an upgrade on Dalot. Pedro Porro might be the best young right back not currently playing for an elite team, and he would cost huge money.

If we can wrap up deals for Todibo and Thuram with the money we can raise by selling Maguire and McTominay then fair enough, but we would still have to sign another centre back and another centre midfielder, which would likely cost another £100m. Greenwood, Sancho, Pellestri, Henderson will all be sold which will more or less cover that, but there would still be centre forward and right forward to consider.

If we allow Varane and Casemiro to leave this summer they will also have to be replaced, at significant cost. Whereas if we can keep them for a further season, perhaps on reduced wages, which has been suggested, then I think that would be the most astute option, both financially, and with regard to squad depth and experience.

Granted, if we sold Varane, Maguire, Casemiro, and McTominay this summer, along with those that haven't featured such as Greenwood, Sancho, Pellestri, Henderson, then we could potentially afford to spend £300 million of 6-8 new players this summer, but in our history, we simply haven't ever done that all in one window. I think it will be £200 million spent on 4-5 players, with maybe £120 million raised from sales. Next summer, 2-3 new players and letting Varane, Casemiro, Anthony leave would be sensible.


9.) 13 Feb 2024 01:12:02
Shappy where are you getting these figures from? £30-35m for Maguire? He’ll be 31 years old, barely have played well for 2 years and he’s literally average (altho perhaps good for a low defensive block) on high wages (unlikely to want to a massive drop off in wages) have 1 year left on his contract. His options are West Ham and maybe an Italian side like Roma? At best. Neither will want to be spending more than £20m at max imo when factoring age and wages and contract remaining etc

Mctominay will also have 1 year left on his contract. There’s v little interest in him, maybe West Ham, maybe Newcastle? No continental team is paying £30m for him with 1 year left on his contract.

Pretty sure Nice were asking for 50-60m for Todibo in January, which is always inflated prices compared to the summer window but I’d imagine they’d still want £40m+ this summer.

So think Maguire + Mctominay = Todibo or there about.

AWB is also in his last year on contract and seemingly the only interest is Crystal Palace. I’d imagine 15m seems fair.

Varane and Casemiro are slight wild cards, who knows what Saudi clubs are willing to pay for Casemiro but 40-50m seems especially generous, and I’m not entirely sure who would want to sign Varane? There were links of him going back to Madrid but I don’t see them signing an injury prone CB on high wages for £30m.


Ultimately I think those players raise £120m max imo. A far cry from the 200m+ you seem to expect. Also Donny, Sancho, Greenwood, Pellistri and Hannibal raising ‘significant funds’ seems overblown. 10, 35, 20, 10, 10 would probs be around the figures I’d imagine clubs would pay for them, so maybe another 100m max.


10.) 13 Feb 2024 02:56:10
Agreed Fuser, we simply can't afford to replace that many players in one window. We need a centre back, we need a number 6 and a number 8, and we need a centre forward and perhaps a right forward, although a versatile forward that can play across the front three might be the more financially astute option.

If we can shift Henderson, Williams, Eriksen, Sancho, Greenwood, Pellestri, Hannibal, and Donny this summer to begin with, that could raise £120 million, perhaps more. That should cover at least half the money we invest in those four new players.

Give Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Maguire, McTominay, Casemiro, and Varane each another year, and extend contracts by a year if necessary, then take £20 million a pop next summer and run. We would probably only two young centre backs, a right back, and one centre midfielder, ideally capable as a number 6 and as a number 8 to replace those 6. Potentially cash in on Bruno next summer too, which would give us plenty cash to replace those players and improve the positions we can't improve this summer.


11.) 13 Feb 2024 05:51:52
There’s so many players that need to go
Varane being one along with Evans lindelof awb and I’d like to see Maguire go but he may stay
We desperately need a top top right back who is a threat going forward but also does his job! Dalot good back up option
Erickson and amrabat will go and do they cash in on mctom while stock is high?
Sancho greenwood pellistri martial Donny also to go! I’d keep cas as a squad player to help and find a top part long term for mainoo!
It won’t happen all at once but I’d expect a lot of the above to be gone in next 18 months!


12.) 13 Feb 2024 10:01:51
There is a reason why finance and figures are not spoken about by the eds.
There is more nonsense in this thread than I'veseen in a long time.
Is for real not a computer game. Nobody has a clue what their talking about.
"Increase their contracts by a year if necessary"???
Really lads stick to the day jibs.


13.) 13 Feb 2024 10:25:36
Fuser, West Ham agreed a 35m deal for Maguire last summer only for the player to turn it down. That was off the back of Maguires worst season with us, having hardly played and being a total liability when he did. Since then he's had some decent if not spectacular form, so I think 30-35m is about the right figure for him coming off the back of an improved season.

McTominay had interest at 30m last summer but we waned 35m, again coming off of a poor season. This season McTominay has 8 goals for United and 7 goals for Scotland. Probably having his best season of his career, certainly his most prolific in front of goal. Therefore, 30-35m for him seems about right.

The wages are a non-issue in my opinion. United would have to pay up the final year of their deals anyway, while the buying clubs do not have to match their United wages, so will offer them wages in line with their clubs wage structure.

AWB would achieve 20-25m in the current market for an English homegrown player. Especially one whose only just turned 26 and is entering their prime, the buying club would get 5 maybe 6 years of peak performances from him.

Varane has had interest from both Bayern and Real Madrid as well as from Saudi Arabia, 25-30m for him seems about right.

Casemiro is the wild card, could be anything from 30-50m for him from Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming maths isn't your strong suit, if you add up the lower end ranges I've put down (70, 25, 40, 20) then you get 155m, if you add up the higher end of the figures I suggested (80, 30, 50, 25) then you get 185m.

So I haven't suggested we'd make 200m+ from selling Maguire, McTominay, AWB, Varane and Casemiro like you're saying.

I said we could raise significant funds from the selling of some fringe players. I think you're probably right with fees of 10m each for players like Donny and Pellistri. That seems about right, but we might get a little more for Pellistri. Hannibal has a 20m purchase option in his Sevilla loan which suggests the club would want around that figure for him, which means your suggestion of 10m seems unlikely.

I think your suggestions of 35m for Sancho and 20m for Greenwood are a fair bit short of what we will actually get, I'd expect more like 45-50m for Sancho given his good form for Dortmund. While Greenwood has caught the attentions of both Real Madrid and Barcelona, again I'd expect closer to 40m maybe even a bit above that.

My point however is that I didn't give any figures I just said the selling of these players would raise significant funds. You stated that was "overblown" then gave some figures that are probably on the low side that still totalled 85m, You suggested "100m max". I think most people on here would agree that 85-100m is a significant amount of money. Enough to make one or two top quality signings at least, maybe three with some great scouting.

Like I said though I think you've underestimated on at least 3 of those players so it could be 120m.

This also doesn't include the 16m we should get from selling Henderson plus whatever we get from Williams and Alvaro Fernandez which might only be 10-15m. Still that's another 26-30m to add to the pile.

So that's 155-185m from Maguire, Varane, AWB, McTominay and Casemiro.

100-120m for Sancho, Greenwood, Donny, Pellistri and Hannibal.

and a further 26-30m for Henderson, Williams and Alvaro Fernandez.

meaning a total of between 281-335m.

That's 13 players sold with only 3 maybe 4 of them being players who'd possibly be first 11 regulars. The rest are squad players who'd have minimal impact over the whole season.

If we can bring in 5-6 first 11 quality players to replace them (which with 280m before the club adds any funds of their own or anything from INEOS should be more than enough to secure 5-6 players) We would be a much strong squad and better team for it.

As for what player would cost to buy I'm only going off of figures I've seen quoted, which I accept is horribly inconsistent.

The figures Nice would accept for their players for example have varied wildly, with some of the outlets suggesting higher figures if sold in January as opposed to what they might accept in the summer. Which given their position in a title challenge makes sense.

Either way the club should be able to raise significant funds through player sales this summer without having to sell key players.


14.) 13 Feb 2024 10:58:06
Shappy I'm now 100% sure you don't understand what your talking about.
No need for the hypothesis.
So far off the mark and so far from understanding.


15.) 13 Feb 2024 12:06:14
Times two, take away three and then tell me what time it is in Abu Dhabi!


16.) 13 Feb 2024 12:27:10
In modern football, it pays to have versatile and dynamic options for each department - say a Jonny Evans or a Scott McTominay.

Now, I've been perhaps rather harsh on McTominay over the last couple of years, but he's shut me and many others up a little with his endeavour.

If it were up to me, I'd keep Maguire and McTominay, for reasons I'll explain further down.
Both, along with Shaw, Kambwala, Mainoo, Mount, Rashford and Garnacho, would fulfill the homegrown quota.
Additionally, we have the 'homegrown' options of Gore, Hannibal, Williams, Alvaro, Bennett, Fish, Vitek, McNeill, Hugill, Forson, and the enigma that is Shoretire to decide upon. We might also have the Ethans - Wheatley and Williams - looking to stick toes in the door.
Of this group, I would probably sell Hannibal, Williams, Bennett, Fish, Vitek, McNeill and Shoretire. I doubt we'd make more than £30m from that lot, but they've all had time and we need to be ruthless.
Greenwood and Sancho are, to me, irrelevant beyond anything that pertains to received fees.

So now, we get to the senior options with value who have contracts expiring in 2024, 2025 or 2026.
Maguire might just end up leaving on a free, we must simply accept that because of the sheer enormity of his wages. He's here, imo, until 2025, that's when we should be working on his replacement.
Lindelof's contract extension also runs out in 2025, but he's not on stupid money and would absolutely be someone I'd be looking to shift.
£15m?
Varane might stay for another season with an extension, but I'd prefer to sell him. Maybe another £15m?
Evans is worth keeping for another year.
I'd look to tie Kambwala down to a new contract.
I'd sell AWB who, for me, has always been an earnest yet average PL defender who can chuck in a worldie tackle. £15m max?
Malacia (2026) is a difficult one. I'd hope to see him have an injury-free crack for a season before deciding on him.
Casemiro needs to be sold. Great player, but now failing fast.
Contracted until 2026, Saudi clubs circling, £25m+?
Eriksen will go, no doubt about that. Maybe £10m?
McTominay is an experienced, versatile player with physical attributes most don't have - big, tall and athletic. I've been harsh on the guy because I've always wanted him to be a master rather than a jack, but he's still a decent squad option.
Fernandes (2026). Yeah, never an option for sale.
Then we have Amad. I really do like him as a player, but if Antony isn't sold then he needs to move for the sake of his own career. I doubt anyone will pay close to half of the fee we signed Antony for so, unfortunately, I think Amad will go.
Perhaps another £15m?
Martial can just f*** off. Absolute w***** who, for me, is one of the worst signings we've ever made. Lazy af p**** with a pathetic attitude. Just go already.

Then we have the remaining 4 loanees - Sancho, Greenwood, Donny and Pellistri. Sell all 4. £30m, £25-£30m, £5-£10m, £10m, respectively.

So, conservatively, we could generate £195m from the sales of 17 players.

Of course that won't happen, but the point is that we must get ruthless with players already here before looking at improving the squad.


17.) 13 Feb 2024 13:23:08
Ork,

Think this is one of those times that I completely agree with ed002.

We shouldn't be chatting about finances, we haven't got a clue ?.


18.) 13 Feb 2024 13:27:28
Last paragraph there ork imo is the key.
I don't think your numbers make any sense at all but the idea of being ruthless and potentially taking big hits is OK but the books have to balance so that may well mean we need to sell one of our more valuable assets.
We all have our dream scenario or wish list but without the full picture its all just stuff in our heads.
If players don't want to move its not easy to shift them as we've seen.
I think we all just have to sit back and hope that the club tick as many of our hopes as possible and as fans we need to support that outcome imo.
No quick fix I think we all have to be patient.
But I totally agree that getting players out is more important than those coming in just now. That's just my opinion without seeing the full picture.


19.) 13 Feb 2024 14:09:14
Snappy there is no way we are getting £300 million for those players, not a chance. Just because we paid far too much for them doesn’t mean other clubs are that daft.

Tumbleweed, United have signed several players over several, with an option to extend for a further year written into their contract. For example, Pogba signed a 5 year deal with an option for a further year when we signed him in 2016, Sancho signed a 5 year deal with an option for a further year when we signed him in 2021, and Lindelof signed a new 5 year deal with an option for a further year in 2019, along with countless others.

I’m guessing similar deals will have been agreed for players such as Wan Bissaka, Maguire, and McTominay, meaning we could extend their contracts until 2025 if necessary, and therefore keep them for a further season, whilst still getting a decent fee next summer. I believe Varane has a contract until 2025, and Casemiro has a contract until 2026, though I might be wrong, so we might lose Varane on a free next summer, but I don’t know if the club might have the option to extend his contract for a further year.

It will be interesting to see how the club decide to shift so many players that don’t have a future at club, be it short term or long term, but I think it is utterly unrealistic to expect them to sell nearly 15 players in one window, and even more so to expect them to raise £300 million in the process.


20.) 13 Feb 2024 14:43:18
angelred

I'm not being funny but, while I'm sure Ed002 might at times be fed up with seeing discussion about financial doings that we're not privy to, if the Eds were vehemently opposed to said discussions they wouldn't approve the posts.
They are, after all, the captains of this 'ere ship.

Tumbleweed

As I also have no detailed picture of the intricacies involved, I can only speculate from the information available to me.

Players can be difficult to shift, Martial is the prime example of that.

My overall position is this.
I wish I could have been a pro footballer, but I was always crap.
I'd love to be a top-level football coach, but I know I'd be crap.
Despite how crap I am at playing the game and how crap I'd almost certainly be at coaching it, my inner i'd is still a rotund little 8yo hoping that just today I'll not be the last kid picked and that the game goes how I want it.
That's literally where I am when it comes to United and football in general - a kid that, despite the spiteful nibble of reality, wishes he was involved with the game he loves so dearly.

As long as the Eds allow it, this kid will unapologetically continue to talk football on any level I wish because, despite how crap I am, I am still utterly obsessed with the game.

So yes, I will talk finances, as will Shappy, as will you when it suits.
I might well talk a fair amount of trash, but I'll own that, take it on one of my chins and move on.

It is what it is mate.


21.) 13 Feb 2024 14:47:55
Dalot is playing fantastic right now and is a shout for our player of the season. There is a reason why it is difficult to find better options out there that are playing at smaller clubs.

Last year he was terrible on the back post and wan bissska was better defending a tricky winger. But this season he has improved both those problems areas and has also played well coming into midfield and overlapping out wide (where he crossing is a little hit and miss) .


22.) 13 Feb 2024 16:01:50
I respect that ork. At least your not delusional. But to be fair it's quite easy to ecucate yourself more about the finances and some of the intricacies and costs on transfers. Ed002 has a few pieces posted in the archives so you have a lot more info available to you to make more informed posts.
None of us have any idea on what is likely to happen on transfers and of course we all think we know how to pick a team and manage a squad but as you rightly say it's thrash talk nonsense, the tea lady from the office would have an opinion on how we should approach it and she would swear she is right too?
Nowt wrong with dreaming mate.


23.) 13 Feb 2024 17:41:43
Tumbleweed

I'm really not as thick as you presume.

For example, amortisation.
I understand that anything in addition to £4m max for Lindelof in the summer would be considered profit.
Anything in addition to £8.2m max for Varane would be profit.
I know we'd want £35m to break even on Casemiro, £29.2m on Sancho and £49.2m on Antony.

I also know that, for the club, contract amortisation isn't the only prickly issue - wages are a big ol' concern too, but in terms of PSR/ FFP they are of no consequence.

Of all the players I suggested we sell at the fees given, only Casemiro and Donny would represent losses - maybe a maximum of a £15m loss on the pair, offset by the profit on just Varane and Lindelof.
Eriksen arrived on a free, so £10m for him would be considered profit.
Anything in addition to £7.4m max for Amad would be profit.
Anything in addition to £1.8m max for Pellistri would be profit.
Then we have the suggested £60m made from the sales of Greenwood, Williams, Bennett, Fish, Vitek, McNeill, Shoretire and Hannibal - almost entirely profit. That figure may be missing the mark one way or another, but you get the gist.

I know you don't rate figures being bandied about and that's fine, but your dismissal doesn't count as greater knowledge or better understanding of financial doings.
I think your rating of Branthwaite is cuckoo-speak, but that's an opinion from someone who, from the outset, knows no more or less than you.

I'll be frank, amortisation of contracts in football is not the most familiar to me, but I don't think I'm doing too bad learning as I go.
I'm certainly no expert and I'm always happy to be corrected, but shut downs won't happen with me mate.


24.) 13 Feb 2024 18:06:38
Ork,

"If it were up to me, I'd keep Maguire and McTominay, for reasons I'll explain further down.
Both, along with Shaw, Kambwala, Mainoo, Mount, Rashford and Garnacho, would fulfill the homegrown quota. "

Players under the age of 21 don't have to be named in your 25 man squad. Meaning Kambwala, Mainoo and Garnacho will not be included in our "homegrown" quota for 2-3 more seasons yet.

Which means even if we keep hold of Maquire and McTominay, along with Shaw, Mount and Rashford that we only have five players to register as homegrown.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Evans and Heaton stick around for that reason.

It's often easier to think that we can only have 17 players over the age of 21 who aren't "homegrown". Next season for example Hojlund will need to be registered, while he didn't have to be this season.

Andre Onana, Altay Bayindir, Raphael Varane, Lisandro Martinez, Victor Lindelof, Tyrell Malacia, Diogo Dalot, Casemiro, Christian Eriksen, Donny van de Beek, Bruno Fernandes, Antony, Facundo Pellistri, Anthony Martial, Rasmus Hojlund and Amad Diallo.

As it stands these 16 players will all need to be registered next season if they were to still be at the club.

So effectively it would need to pretty much be a one in one out approach to signing non-homegrown players.

If we want to sign 5 or 6 non-homegrown players we will need to sell/ release 4 or 5 non-homegrown players. Donny, Pellistri and Martial are pretty much nailed on to leave, but at least 2 or 3 others will likely need to go as well.

Further more we will likely see the likes of Greenwood, Sancho, Evans, Heaton, Maguire and McTominay all potentially depart which is another 6 homegrown players.

So it would be prudent to look to sign a couple of homegrown players this summer to avoid a situation further down the line where we might be forced into having to sign homegrown players or play with a smaller squad.

The club needs to think about making sure we stop making financially stupid decisions with our players, big contracts for declining players, or new contracts for bit part players who aren't contributing, and finally selling players while they still have some value rather than letting their contracts elapse and leave for free.

Martial, Evans and Heaton will all leave for nothing this summer. While that might not be a big deal for Heaton and Evans, two players we got on free transfers. The situation with Martial is we paid near 50m for him, and paid him just shy of 80m over the 9 years he has been at the club. Allowing him to leave for free is exactly why we are in a tight spot with FFP.

In the summer we will have eight players who will be entering the final year of their contract (McTominay, Varane, Maguire, AWB, Lindelof, Diallo, Eriksen and Kambwala) .

I would expect Diallo and Kambwala to get new deals before Christmas. Eriksen might be allowed to leave for free as he was signed on a free.

The other five I would expect the club to look to sell as many of them as possible to avoid them leaving for free, and I really don't expect any of them to be given a new contract.

The only fly in the ointment is that we have three centre backs, four if you include Evans who will all likely leave the club this summer. For that reason I could see the club offering Evans another one year deal, or keeping Lindelof and letting him leave on a free as his fee and wages have been the lower than that of Varane and Maguire, and he has been a steady squad option.

Varane on 300k per week needs to be a starter if he stays, as does Maguire on 190k per week. Its hard to justify paying players that much to sit on the bench and is not something I see INEOS doing going forward.


25.) 13 Feb 2024 21:54:06
Not for 1 second suggesting you're dumb, ork but I would say your a bit snowflakey with that kind of response very touchy indeed, nor did I mention amortisation that's pretty simple Mathematics and accounting.

I'm taking about vat agents fees, legals associated costs pay offs etc so getting in 250m in fees that does not go to the club three is a load of associated costs. So even then that puts out your amounts going against the amortised value. It's quite complex which is why eds won't go into it
Nobody said you're dumb, just not as fully in the picture as you could be. Touchy chap you are??.


26.) 14 Feb 2024 13:05:21
Tumbleweed

I get that amortisation is basic accounting, but I don't know enough about the forensic structure of a footballer's contract to know whether it's very nature is subject to standard amortisation the same way as any other respective contract. I get that there's likely nominal difference if any at all, but I don't presume to know anything about a footballer's contract beyond the basics.

I'm one of the very many who find accounting dull and will only seek to know the bits that apply to myself, my family and my businesses, after my accountant has worked her grubbies through the puddings.
I don't have a pro sportsperson in my family so have no reason or indeed interest in learning the finer details of contracts relevant to athletes.

I like football, not accounting.

I mentioned amortisation because the manner in which you always seek to shut down talk of financial doings is that of someone who presumes themselves to be an authority surrounded by simpletons. You could be Alan Sugar for all I know pal, but you still won't be shutting me down.

Simply put, if the Eds are comfortable with finance-speak being posted, then it just leaves you with the problem.


27.) 14 Feb 2024 16:11:37
I've no problem with anything you say. I said the the eds don't talk about finances because it's complex and the try not to get into it themselves. You can make up a bunch of figures that don't make sense I'm not sure why your so touchy about someone pointing out that they don't make sense Or bare any relation to reality. Nobody trying to shut you down just pointing out that that your assumptions are flawed some of the reasoning why.


28.) 15 Feb 2024 06:10:57
I see people going completely overboard in terms of a rebuild. We are not selling mc and say what you want about him but in terms of age, attitude and ability to win you games and being an academy player, plenty will go before he goes imo.

We will get a couple of CB's and a couple of mids with Ericksen, cas moving on most likely. we will also spend money on a couple of people up top right wing and striker. 6 signings I reckon.

Greenwood, Sancho, Dvb, Hanibal, Cas, Eriksen, Maguire and Varrane will go imo. Not sure why lindelof was extended, his forward passing ability is on par with a 3rd grader. Praying shaw is ready to come back, lindelof at left back is embarrassing.

That is a massive job for whoever the new DOF is. Then you have the likes Hanibal, Gore, Pellistri, Fish who will be back from their loan spells and he has to figure out what to do with them plus a number of academy players who will need a pathway.


 

 

02 Jan 2024 10:47:16
Seeing the CB names we're linked with most - I'm not overly keen on any of them.

Scalvini - Big and powerful with great composure on the ball, but slower and more cumbersome than Maguire.

Dragusin - Strong and quick, but couldn't pass wind.

Todibo - Strong and quick while decent on the ball, but can switch off badly.

Yoro - Perhaps the most overrated of the lot, worth nowhere near the £70m+ that Lille will apparently seek. Kambwala is a better prospect.

For me, right now with the FFP constraints and the likely options available, I'd go for Adarabioyo who, whilst certainly not a Van Dijk, is already playing in the PL and might well represent better value given that he'll be available for free in the summer and won't renew with Fulham.

What say you?

Ork

1.) 02 Jan 2024 11:36:46
I've never seen any of them train. I've hardly seen any of them play for their clubs for anything more than a few mins.
So can't give any opinion on them.


2.) 02 Jan 2024 11:38:30
I would go for Tapsoda in the summer. best imo, has everything but you lose him to afcon every 2 years.


3.) 02 Jan 2024 12:32:41
There are lots of different options out there available, unfortunately the more talented or proven players will cost more to buy. There's no getting away from that. Personally I think we need a couple of signings at CB. However, given that we also need players in several other positions it might be that we can only make the one singing.

Antonio Silva looks to be one of the best young and well rounded players, however, his price is rumoured to be in excess of 70m. Which is probably more than we can afford to spend on any one player.

I really like the look of Ousmane Diomande from Sporting Lisbon. While his partner Inacio is probably the more rounded player right now, I think Diomande looks much more suited to playing in the EPL. Quicker and more athletic while still technically gifted enough on the ball. He's a couple of years younger than Inacio and it shows with him being a little more raw in his development. However, I think his height and ability in the air, along with playing RCB would potentially make him an ideal partner to Martinez. While Inacio would likely have to adapt to playing at RCB alongside Martinez.

The only other player who's really caught my eye over the past season or so is Jarrad Branthwaite from Everton. He looks a cracking prospect and someone we should be looking at and be prepared to move for him if another top EPL side looks to move for him. He's everything you want from an EPL CB. Tall, strong, quick, yet he reads the game well, rarely making a mistake. Good on the ball without being outstanding, but an area that looks like it could be developed and improved with good coaching. He's also shown some leadership qualities, has shown he communicates well and will help organise the defence.

The only real issue is that he also plays LCB so would be in competition with Martinez for a starting spot. However, if Martinez doesn't recover to find his best form again after this injury lay off then Branthwaite seems an ideal signing a little further down the line. Or maybe we see a tactical shift with Branthwaite playing LCB and Martinez starting at LB but playing as a inverted fullback alongside someone else in midfield. Supposedly that is the role Arsenal were looking at when then attempted to sign Martinez, in the end after we signed him they signed Zinchenko to play that role.

Either way long term we will need to build a deeper squad with serious competition for places if we want to become a top side again. Although signing a RCB to play alongside Martinez is the higher priority right now.


4.) 02 Jan 2024 12:35:15
ahmad

In the summer yes, Tapsoba would be a great option, but I'm thinking about options now.

I wouldn't put money on Martinez returning to top form anytime soon.
Shaw's out again. Maguire and Lindelof are having problems this season. Varane might now lack focus as well as consistent fitness.

That leaves Evans (36 tomorrow) and 19yo Kambwala as our only currently reliable options.

Personally, I'd get rid of Varane now. He's apparently displeased by the prospect of reduced terms being offered by the club and is already generating interest from clubs doing better in less physical leagues. I expect him to go out of choice, whether that be this month or in the summer.

I think it's essential that we bring someone relatively inexpensive in now and reevaluate the defensive department in the summer when, irrespective of the likely eventualities, Adarabioyo will still represent a decent squad option.

We must start boxing clever now.


5.) 02 Jan 2024 13:41:30
OrK, I disagree with making a short term signing in January to "see us through". Our squad is in the mess it is in right now due to short term thinking.

Ultimately signing someone like Adarabioyo now is unlikely to make a significant impact between now and the summer. While his signing takes up a squad place, depletes spending power and would mean that we have a player who is ultimately not good enough on a 3-5 year contract.

If we absolutely have to make a signing in January to cover for injuries then it should be a loan and nothing more.

Only players who are part of the long term vision for the squad should be signed on permanent deals in January or the summer.

If a main target is available in January then great, sign them up. If not then we should stick with what we have. Even if that means finishing outside of the top four. We need to get away from this short term fix mentality that has seen our empire crumble.

The problem with short term fixes is they rarely work and often come with big drawbacks in the medium to long term. There is nothing to stop Adarabioyo from snapping his ACL in his first game for us. Then we've assigned funds and a squad place to a player that we effectively only need for 6 months, of which he'll be injured for the entirety of that time. While his signing would restrict what we could do in the summer and beyond.


6.) 02 Jan 2024 14:46:31
Shappy

The main reason for this mess is pure mismanagement at all levels.
That's why Jones and Bailly remained for so long, it's why Martial is still here.
It's why we spent £255m on Maguire, Antony and Sancho.
Not one of those aforementioned players arrived due to short-term thinking, not one.

Adarabioyo would not be a short-term fix - he's better than Lindelof, better value than Maguire and would play more games than Varane.

We can agree to disagree, but this mess is not due to short-term thinking - it's due entirely to inadequate and incompetent thinking.


7.) 02 Jan 2024 14:57:48
Shappy

I don't rate Branthwaite at all and don't get the. If Martinez does not recover, we need a left footed CB.

If the idea is not to do the same mistakes we have done in the past, then we should buy a proper CB that you know he is part of the spine of the team for the next 6 to 7 years and someone who does not get found out for pace.


ORK

Reality is we have something like 22/ 24 games left if we make a run in the fa cup. ETH said malacia, shaw, martinez, maguire will all be back mid jan in his last presser.

Add Lindelof, Varrane, AWB, Dalot, Evans in there we suddenly have an abundance of options at the back pretty much playing one game a week and enough time to get some of the guys back from injury to match fitness. Might as well wait and go for the best talent in the summer imo.

I think priority this jan is to get someone on loan as a striker/ right winger. Martial and Antony both are hopeless imo. Our inability to score is causing us all kinds of problems and the more we push the more we get caught out with soft goals.


8.) 02 Jan 2024 16:32:35
Could we really be surprised if Utd loaned a Dutch CB, or one from the Eredivisie? Maybe I should dig out my Daley Blind Utd shirt now.


9.) 02 Jan 2024 16:35:22
Ork, We might have to agree to disagree on this one. For me Adarabioyo is an average EPL player, no more no less.

I am 100% against signing more average players, for me signing should fall into one of two categories. They either need to be a player to go straight into the first 11 for the next 3-5 years or they need to be a highly talented young player who we can develop into a top class player over the next 2-3 years.

Your "squad players" should be either former first 11 players pushed down the pecking order by better new signings, or academy lads looking to push their way into the first team.

I'm adamantly against signing players who aren't good enough or won't be good enough after developing a bit more for your first 11. For me that is just wasting money, spending it for spendings sake. I'd rather give a lad from the academy a chance than sign someone who is not intended to become a regular first choice player. Give the lads a chance and keep your powder dry for a player who'll actually improve you.

I also don't think Adarabioyo is any better than Lindelof, I'd rather just activate his one year option in his contract and keep him as back up next year before signing another CB in 2025.

Evans has shown that when fit he is as good as any of our other options, better than most even at 35. While his fitness record is fairly similar to Varane's if we are honest. I'd rather give him another year. Not only is he good enough as back up, he's a leader and a model professional. The kind of characters we need more of around the squad.

We need to sign a quality first choice CB to play alongside Martinez. If we don't have the budget to sign two top class or potentially top class CB's this summer then for me it makes much more sense to keep Lindelof and Evans until 2025 and sign another CB who is good enough then. Rather than sign someone who isn't any better than Lindelof and Evans now and won't ever be, but on a 4 or 5 year deal.

As for the mess we are in, it's certainly down to short term thinking. Giving new deals to players on the books to avoid losing money on this years accounts but with no consideration to the fact that we will have to pay those players for the next 4 or 5 years despite them having little to no impact in the team is very much short term thinking. Likewise signing older declining players on massive wages as it boosts the brand image is also short term thinking. Signing players like Imbrahimovic, Falcao, or Cavani when we needed a new striker was not long term thinking. Likewise giving massive wages to the likes of Varane and Casemiro who were entering the twilights of their careers at the highest level.

While I'm not arguing that the decisions made were anything short of incompetence, they have all been made as a reaction to fixing problems right now, and not signings made to think about 2-3 years down the line. Team does badly so splash the cash on a fancy big name player to appease the fans and the sponsors and bump the problems down the road to deal with another day.

Much like the continuous kicking of the can down the road over Mason Greenwood, no one prepared to actually make a decision, so just delay for now. send him hone, send him on loan. Just don't actually deal with it. More short term thinking with no real plan for how to resolve it.


10.) 02 Jan 2024 16:42:17
Ahmad, I think Branthwaite has quietly been one of the best young CB's in the league this season. He's left footed as well which is rare for a CB. I wouldn't be surprised to see him give the much hyped Colwill a run for his money as the long term LCB option for England. He's only 21 and this is his first real season in the EPL. He's been quietly excellent for a improving Everton side. Everton would be 12th place and 5 points behind ourselves if not for their 10 point deduction. I'd still expect them to pull comfortably away from the relegation places by the end of the season.


11.) 03 Jan 2024 04:30:31
Shqppy

I tend to watch players when we get associated with them. He is your typical standard CB, who is okay to sit deep and defend and in terms of passing he is limited. If the ambition is to push up higher up the pitch and have cb's who can defend, have pace and ball playing CB he is very average for me. Colwel, Guehi and all these guys are standard cb for me nothing special. People criticize southgate for starting maguire but none stand out to justify starting.

Its Leyton banes syndrome when they are overhyped and 10 years later wherever they are playing they are considered good players at their position but nothing special.

If you watch Tapsoda, you see a massive difference in skill set and he grabs your attention immediately, no wonder Leverkusen have not lost a game this season so far and one of the lowest amounts conceded in a very high scoring league. Some of the passes this guy does is outstanding and not talking about hitting long balls to wings.

I would take Todibo over Braithwaite if that was the two options. Have watched him plenty of times but the french league is boring to watch and not a lot of goals so hard to say if its the defender or just quality of play.


 

 

29 Dec 2023 07:56:30
I must admit to fearing that the Erik-out campaign would become an all-consuming, claustrophobic vacuum of nonsense.

I am now back to being the annoyingly positive pillock I was before.

I can't wait to see the return of Casemiro - he's miles better than Amrabat and only needs an energetic passing machine like Mainoo to blend with for him to excel.

Yes, he's 31. Yes, he's slowed a little, but he isn't suddenly inadequate. He's still among the best in the world, but just needs better support than he gets from McTominay and Eriksen.

Moreso, I am so looking forward to seeing a fully-fit Martinez return.
Don't get me wrong, Evans has been immense given his age, but he's no Licha. The all-round game and warrior-spirit of this absolute animal makes him, imo, the most important player we have.

I'm hoping that, having seen how much better Garnacho and Bruno have looked on the right, ten Hag will reluctantly call it on Antony - he is just not good enough.
I would also like to see Forson getting some minutes in on the left - 7 goals and 2 assists from 8 U21/ youth games should not be overlooked.

2024 could be the beginning of the turn - emerging from the gloom of dross performances and bad energy to realise a playing culture that actually works and keeps bums on seats at OT.

Hopefully, that Villa game will serve as an inadvertent nod to how our whole season will be and we're going to see an upturn inspired by renewed effort and vigour from a team of football players.

Ork

1.) 29 Dec 2023 09:11:58
I have been an optimist the whole season and try and ignore most of the overreaction. United gets so much more negativity and overreaction from supporters and opposition fans/ pundits than any other team and you have to block it out.

Case and point is saka, who has 5 goals this year in the pl and plays in a team that creates a lot more chnaces, better football and much further down the line than we are in terms of a rebuild.

Club who have spend 735 mill in 4 years on players. No one talks about Saka but rash gets abused week in week out even if he had 8 goals instead of 2. Both wingers and saka has plays every game in his fav starting position compared to rash sometimes through the middle and some games on the right hand side and recently benched.

I will remain that way unless our injuries never let up. We need to see players back in Jan and shore up how we defend set plays and deal with counter attacks against teams who sit deep. if the injuries drag into feb and march then I will change my view on the season and where we end up but not the manager.

Westham yesterday was a perfect example of this league. They play ugly but did what they did to us at emirates to Arsenal and arsenal had their best 11 out on the pitch.

same result but difference was arsenal creates more chances as they are much better than us in retaining possession and just technically better playing in tight spaces and recirculating the ball and probing around the opp box.

Forest Tomm would be good win to close the year and have some feel good factor around the club and some positivity. We are in the mix and no one is running away with anything. 5 point gaps can disappear very quickly when you lose one and draw one and the other team wins a couple on the bounce. We need to win games and the rest will drop points for sure.


2.) 29 Dec 2023 09:49:13
To be fair Ahmad your level of optimism tends to fluctuate on the previous result :D

The scrutiny of Manchester United has always been there for as long as I remember. Every other fan has hated specific players, from Rooney to Beckham, now Maguire and Rashford, and there's no such thing as a neutral when it comes to the club. The level of contempt and frustration from our own fans has built over the last decade and reaches fever pitch after a couple of successive losses.

Speaking of being optimistic, I wonder if we're starting to come through the storm. It certainly couldn't get much worse than it reached a few weeks ago. I'm not suggesting that now SJR is involved everything is going to be better, far from it, and I don't expect much to happen in the January sales. But it does feel like a little light at the end of the tunnel in my book. The last result and more importantly performance was like one of old, exciting with Utd coming from 2 down. It will be some time before we're challenging for anything major in my opinion, but it feels to me like the tide could be turning. Or maybe that's just fickle me after one good result :D.


3.) 29 Dec 2023 10:42:14
Another false dawn and papering over the cracks.


4.) 29 Dec 2023 11:47:17
Maybe.


5.) 29 Dec 2023 12:24:48
Ahmad you continually miss the point re Rashford. The stick he’s getting isn’t because he has only scored two goals. It’s because of the absolute lack of effort for which he’s in competition with Martial atm. Stop being such a fanboi and reacting to the concerns of others that point that out.

Unfortunately we have seen too many false dawns from this group. I hope beyond hope this isn’t another and that we can kick on and enjoy the second part of the season. GGMU.


6.) 29 Dec 2023 13:42:15
Villa were pretty poor second half against us and yet still had chances to score more goals. The desire of the Utd players second half was a pleasure to see but one good half does not reflect how poor we are. The fact Villa played such an open game suited oiur counter attacking style. Against properly organised teams we are hopeless. Midfield and defence still miles away from where we need to be.


7.) 29 Dec 2023 14:07:42
I feel more optimistic too, but I'll still not be sticking Utd in my coupon, this weekend.


8.) 29 Dec 2023 14:07:43
Fizz

What people think is a bad attitude is him making about 20 to 30 runs and us being so slow even trying to find him. I agree to disagree with many on his attitude. I think its frustration with our slow play and moving the ball.

Spenno

My level of optimism is on par what eth said today. This will be a different team come jan and we get players back and have options. I am not blind to when we play poorly but its less tactical imo and more personnel related. Our second string and gap in quality is quite glaring.


9.) 29 Dec 2023 17:19:45
Rashford visibly doesn't try. It is clear as day in front of your eyes and he was quite rightly dropped for it. Stop trying to defend the indefensable! He doesn't go into 50 50s, he ducks out of headed challenges and does anything he can to avoid heading the ball in general, especially long balls.

Rashford burst into the scene by being a high energy player scared of nothing. Now he his terrified of shadows. Such a shame.


10.) 30 Dec 2023 07:47:55
Salford here we go again
Villa were poor
They played into our hands ….
That’s how they play and have beaten nearly everyone! They were poor because we were all over them!


11.) 30 Dec 2023 08:30:37
Ork don’t worry about bums on seats at OT. ETH is very much loved by those within the stadium.


12.) 30 Dec 2023 12:01:05
Ork, I agree with Casemiro, towards the end of last season and the start of this up until his injury it was clear his level had dropped slightly. He probably doesn't have the ability to hold our midfield together on his own like he did for the first half of last season. Yet he is still arguably our best midfielder.

I think we need to play with a double pivot, both to shield our defence and to give us greater control and options to play out from the back.

I really like the idea of playing Casemiro and Mainoo together for the rest of the season when possible. I think it'd give us the best midfield platform, and it would give Mainoo the opportunity to learn from one of the best CDM's of the past decade by playing alongside him. It could really help him develop as a player.

Ideally I'd keep Casemiro for next season as well, to play as a rotation option, while looking to bring in two new midfielders to complement Mainoo and Casemiro. Giving us 4 good quality options for the two positions in the double pivot.


13.) 30 Dec 2023 13:51:25
I like ETH’s no nonsense approach, particularly to Sancho, yet he hasn’t shown it with Rashford or Antony so much. I think he needs to be both logical and consistent with selection and ingame management. Let’s see what he does this evening, particularly with the Antony, Rashford and Garnacho positions, plus McT.

Overall I want to see better recruitment of young hungrier players, rather than fading star types, like Casemiro. Yes I did post that on here at the time. We need and I hope the new investor will want, a better review system before buying. The Manager should not be the sole driver of a purchase.


14.) 30 Dec 2023 15:36:53
Shappy

I'm with you there, which is why a signing like Andre would be ideal.

However, I fear we'll need to instead explore cheaper options as Andre would cost almost £35m - unknown gambles or experienced PL players with contracts expiring in the summer could be our market.

If it were up to me, this January, I'd sell Varane for the mooted £17m and buy Adarabioyo who is refusing to renew his Fulham contract and, at 6'5" and being a big old unit, offers plenty to a team that frequently struggles against powerful teams.

Then, in the summer, I'd be inclined to explore a free or two - maybe a Soucek or a Guido Rodriguez, a Lloyd Kelly or a Valentin Gomez, perhaps even Gabigol.

Being naive and basic in the transfer market has been a major problem of ours, the FFP pressure might eventually force us to become more savvy.
That said, the weak af terms of van de Beek's loan agreement aren't suggestive of a significant change anytime soon.

I'd love us to get Andre or Vermeeren, but our hesitant and moronic nature in the transfer market means we're likely to try driving hard bargains in the wrong rooms again.


15.) 30 Dec 2023 16:38:41
Ork, André could be available for much closer to 20m, his contact expires December 31st 2024. So only has a year left on his contract.

For me he is exactly the kind of player we should be looking at. He profiles really well against the kind of midfielder we need.

Yet you know we will scout him but not make the move. He'll then sign for Benfica or Lyon for around 20m then have an exceptional 18 months with them with us looking to buy him in 2025 for north of 70m.

We could have signed Moises Caicedo for less than 10m, Enzo Fernandez for 16m or Julian Alvarez for 12m at different stages in the past 3 years. We also missed out on deals for Haaland and Bellingham due to us not being a well run club which can show young players a development plan for them. Could have had both and still have change from 50m.

Imagine if we were a well run club in the past 5 years we could now have had a midfield of Caicedo, Enzo Fernandez and Bellingham, with Haaland and Alvarez leading the line for around about the same amount of money that we spent on Antony.

It's utterly shocking when you think about the amount of money we wasted, when there are players we've tried to sign probably now worth in excess of 600m and we could have had them all for 80-90m.

We need to become fat more savvy in the transfer market. Signing players like André for around 20m now is the only way we will be able to create a title challenging squad. We simply cannot afford to buy 60-80m players for all the players we need. That would cost us between 600-800m, and would take 4-5 years, by which time the players we have now will need replacing so we would still need a bit a further 5-6 players and still be 2 years away from having a squad that can challenge.

Literally the only way we can rebuild a squad to a level where we can challenge again is by being clever in the transfer market and taking a few educated gambles on players.


16.) 30 Dec 2023 22:46:54
Face it were crap. if you think this manager with this set of jokers can do anything you're utter delusional. Every game is dire just dire, it's horrible to watch. can't carry on, without doubt most be sacked. Moyes and van gaal played better football . We're an embarrassment face it a laughing stock. he's spent 400m and its plain awful.


 

 

22 Dec 2023 23:18:08
With the news of Lindelof's surgery and subsequent layoff, I'm hoping to see big Willy getting some minutes in tomorrow.

This one reeks of 0-0.

Ork

1.) 23 Dec 2023 05:43:50
we will score, they concede a lot of goals for a team that sits in.


2.) 23 Dec 2023 11:34:09
Looks like you've got your wish. Fingers crossed he has a good debut.


3.) 23 Dec 2023 11:45:59
Where’s Varane?


4.) 23 Dec 2023 11:59:56
Thank god he makes his debut alongside Evans. He is the one defender we have who can tutor a young CB through a game.


5.) 23 Dec 2023 15:26:14
You were half right we got nil.
? no goals in 4 games. Few chances and when they do come we can't take them.
Like the managers before him he has been let down by the players under him and the people above him.
So many players out is a genuine excuse but there are a lot of factors even taking into account the injuries that are not good.
Where we go from here is anybodies guess.
I hope we don't sack eth unless sjr and team's 1st choice is available now.


6.) 23 Dec 2023 18:14:45
West Ham struggling to defend and score goals but wait ETH is in town with his stupid tactics and in game management so West Ham keep a clean sheet and score 2, ETH is the gift that keeps on giving

Merry Christmas your deluded along with your admirers and defenders of your small club mentality, purchase and loans of poor quality players, even Weghorst now having a dig about ETH, that’s a new low.


 

 

 

Ork's rumour replies

 

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02 Feb 2024 21:05:39
ahmad

You may have missed it, it's since been amended.

The footnote read 'MAUPAY IS A WASTEMAN. '

Ork

 

 

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02 Feb 2024 16:25:18
ahmad

I'm definitely keen to see how Bergvall does, he did have a trial at OT a couple of years ago.
Check out his Wiki page, Club Career has a fantastic footnote.

Ork

 

 

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09 Jan 2024 19:42:14
I wouldn't be surprised if Real make a move.

Ork

 

 

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05 Jan 2024 19:27:33
€8m offer from Fenerbahce.
Yep, I'd take that and throw in some biscuits.

Ork

 

 

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05 Jan 2024 14:25:46
Rather like the speculative rumours regarding Kimmich, there's no firmness to the ground of Medialand.

Bayern probably would sell the soon-to-be 29yo Kimmich for the mooted £78m, what with the emergence of Pavlovic and dutiful flexibility of both Laimer and Goretzka (each of whom arrived on free transfers) alongside the fact they only paid £6m for him.
That £78m would cover his signing fee and all the wages paid for all 3 of the senior central midfielders at Bayern - that's called a basic no-brainer.

While he is an absolutely phenomenal player, at 29 his value will decrease come the summer so Bayern are simply using the media to see who bites.

A fishing analogy works nicely for this.
Bayern are casting a line.
The media is the hook.
Clubs like United, PSG and Barcelona will be the main nibblers.

Now, the problem with the whole prospect of anyone buying Kimmich for any price in January is that he'll want assurances and big money.
Euro 2024 in Germany will obviously be rather a big deal for him so he will want to be the main man at any new club.
Moreover, what with Bayern being routinely the main source of players for the German national team in tournaments, it would take massive wages to draw him away.

Ultimately, I doubt very much that he'll be leaving Bayern until the end of summer at the earliest when, upon the completion of the Euros, he might well return to Leipzig or perhaps then consider riches from abroad.

So yes, the media will follow whatever script they're fed - they're all like it.

I fall for the garbage all the time because I'm led by my inner-id that bellows 'F*** no! ' every time I hear stupidity.
Am I stupid? Marks out of ten please :D.

Ork

 

 

 

Ork's banter replies

 

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01 Mar 2024 14:43:03
Ahmad H

What absolute rubbish.

Like a lot of people, I also come from a very poor background, but nobody will ordinarily escape poverty without effort.

Yes, his talent has removed himself and his family from the threat of poverty and that can only ever be a great thing - I'm genuinely happy that he won't suffer the real misery his mother suffered.

Unfortunately, for those in attendance at United games, most keep themselves away from the fingers of poverty with at least as much graft as talent.

The point is mate, for this fraud to run his mouth about commitment, he needs to first remove his head from his squeaky clean and consider the commitment of a regular fan who has grafted away for 40hrs+ a week in a job that certainly isn't a dream vocation to, once the bills have eaten most of their earnings, commit to their passion of following their team.

I've been to enough games and seen Rashford live to know that, irrespective of his runs, he does not graft.
As for those runs, when he does get the ball, he is frequently on his own because of his mooching and should at least try to hold the ball up, but no, he'll sink into Boss mode and try to jink his way past 2, 3, 4 players long before he'd even think to lift his head to find a pass. That's all he ever wants to do and, considering the fact he fails with this play 95% of the time, it's just not good enough.
So this running garbage is just that - garbage. He will occasionally track back, but he certainly won't sprint to do so.

I'll be fair, he puts in a bit more graft than Martial, but that's no glowing endorsement.

Like Bruno, he is not a team player and I would be very happy to see both leave by the end of summer'25.

Ork

 

 

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29 Feb 2024 21:59:25
In a nutshell Tim.

I'm sick of seeing pampered little boys like Precious stroll around taking the p*** out of fans who have paid small fortunes from their comparatively tiny wage packets that they've properly grafted for - only to then have to listen to this delusional and blinkered moron chat some more s*** about commitment.

I wonder, does he really actually believe that s*** that's dribbled out from his head?

Ork

 

 

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14 Feb 2024 13:05:21
Tumbleweed

I get that amortisation is basic accounting, but I don't know enough about the forensic structure of a footballer's contract to know whether it's very nature is subject to standard amortisation the same way as any other respective contract. I get that there's likely nominal difference if any at all, but I don't presume to know anything about a footballer's contract beyond the basics.

I'm one of the very many who find accounting dull and will only seek to know the bits that apply to myself, my family and my businesses, after my accountant has worked her grubbies through the puddings.
I don't have a pro sportsperson in my family so have no reason or indeed interest in learning the finer details of contracts relevant to athletes.

I like football, not accounting.

I mentioned amortisation because the manner in which you always seek to shut down talk of financial doings is that of someone who presumes themselves to be an authority surrounded by simpletons. You could be Alan Sugar for all I know pal, but you still won't be shutting me down.

Simply put, if the Eds are comfortable with finance-speak being posted, then it just leaves you with the problem.

Ork

 

 

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13 Feb 2024 17:41:43
Tumbleweed

I'm really not as thick as you presume.

For example, amortisation.
I understand that anything in addition to £4m max for Lindelof in the summer would be considered profit.
Anything in addition to £8.2m max for Varane would be profit.
I know we'd want £35m to break even on Casemiro, £29.2m on Sancho and £49.2m on Antony.

I also know that, for the club, contract amortisation isn't the only prickly issue - wages are a big ol' concern too, but in terms of PSR/ FFP they are of no consequence.

Of all the players I suggested we sell at the fees given, only Casemiro and Donny would represent losses - maybe a maximum of a £15m loss on the pair, offset by the profit on just Varane and Lindelof.
Eriksen arrived on a free, so £10m for him would be considered profit.
Anything in addition to £7.4m max for Amad would be profit.
Anything in addition to £1.8m max for Pellistri would be profit.
Then we have the suggested £60m made from the sales of Greenwood, Williams, Bennett, Fish, Vitek, McNeill, Shoretire and Hannibal - almost entirely profit. That figure may be missing the mark one way or another, but you get the gist.

I know you don't rate figures being bandied about and that's fine, but your dismissal doesn't count as greater knowledge or better understanding of financial doings.
I think your rating of Branthwaite is cuckoo-speak, but that's an opinion from someone who, from the outset, knows no more or less than you.

I'll be frank, amortisation of contracts in football is not the most familiar to me, but I don't think I'm doing too bad learning as I go.
I'm certainly no expert and I'm always happy to be corrected, but shut downs won't happen with me mate.

Ork

 

 

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13 Feb 2024 14:43:18
angelred

I'm not being funny but, while I'm sure Ed002 might at times be fed up with seeing discussion about financial doings that we're not privy to, if the Eds were vehemently opposed to said discussions they wouldn't approve the posts.
They are, after all, the captains of this 'ere ship.

Tumbleweed

As I also have no detailed picture of the intricacies involved, I can only speculate from the information available to me.

Players can be difficult to shift, Martial is the prime example of that.

My overall position is this.
I wish I could have been a pro footballer, but I was always crap.
I'd love to be a top-level football coach, but I know I'd be crap.
Despite how crap I am at playing the game and how crap I'd almost certainly be at coaching it, my inner i'd is still a rotund little 8yo hoping that just today I'll not be the last kid picked and that the game goes how I want it.
That's literally where I am when it comes to United and football in general - a kid that, despite the spiteful nibble of reality, wishes he was involved with the game he loves so dearly.

As long as the Eds allow it, this kid will unapologetically continue to talk football on any level I wish because, despite how crap I am, I am still utterly obsessed with the game.

So yes, I will talk finances, as will Shappy, as will you when it suits.
I might well talk a fair amount of trash, but I'll own that, take it on one of my chins and move on.

It is what it is mate.

Ork