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18 Jun 2021 18:24:36
Reports that ole is going make a definitive decision on the number 1 spot and has opted for Henderson.

Not an easy call to make and leaves the club in a tough position with DDG.

An alexis type loan deal most likely for him I assume if he wants first team football next season.


1.) 18 Jun 2021 22:23:23
The sensible decision.

2.) 19 Jun 2021 07:32:32
The sensible decision in what way? DDG has been a loyal servant, Henderson has had one good season at Sheff Utd and has more market value. Just because it’s the decision you’d make doesn’t make it sensible Shappy. Think i speak for many on here when I say the sooner you realise that the better.

3.) 19 Jun 2021 07:37:47
What are the loan options, most clubs seem settled in the goalkeeping department, and then there is the matter of his £375k a week wages to cover.

4.) 19 Jun 2021 07:57:45
Thats why its going to have to be an alexis type deal where we pay a fair chunk of the players wages while they play for their loan club.

5.) 19 Jun 2021 09:21:28
Red Whiskey, DDG has continued to decline every year for the past 3 seasons. That is not a blip but a clear pattern of decline.

Currently Henderson and DDG although having different strengths and qualities are probably on par.

So if you have two keepers, on a similar level, but one is declining while the other is improving then surely backing the keeper who is on the up is the sensible thing to do.

DDG has been a loyal servant and he has been paid handsomely for it. He is the highest paid player in the league, yet he isn't even in the top ten best players in the league currently. He has also had a little dig at the club in a post wishing Romero the best. Saying that Romero deserves to be treated well by his next club. He might be 100% right in what he is saying. Yet to publicly back a player leaving the club over the club doesn't look great.

Personally given that it will be hard to sell DDG this summer then loaning him out seems like the best and most sensible decision.

That way both keepers understand their role and it removes the indecision that has impacted both of their performances this season.

Henderson gets a shot at proving himself without the spectre of DDG hanging over his head.

DDG gets a fresh club to play at which might give him the jolt needed to get him back to his best form.

While if Henderson flops then we still have DDG on the books to come back.

6.) 19 Jun 2021 09:30:51

What are you on about? It looks like you have a massive soft spot for DDG. Logically thinking, DDG does not deserve to be first choice gk anymore. He has been horrible for past three years and yet is the highest paid player in the league.

Form loss usually only last for weeks or months. DDG has lost his form for 3 years now which means he is in decline. As much he has done for the club, it is time to say good bye.

It is sad to see many people slating henderson just because he is here to replace their beloved DDG. Henderson is still learning and can only be better. He is better in everthing compared to DDG except shot stopping. To be fair, DDG has never been good at anything except shot stopping and there was no one better than him.

As Shappy said, sensible thing is to go for Henderson as first choice and sell DDG. If he was at low wage then i would understand but he is at incredibly stupid wage which is not healthy for the club.

7.) 19 Jun 2021 10:31:40
Henderson is a perfectly adequate goalkeeper, but is that what we want, adequate.

We all agree that DDG needs to be moved on, ideally he would like to go back to Madrid, but neither club there looks an option at the moment. Heard that he sounded out Barcelona as he is close friends with Aguero, but the money situation is too difficult to overcome.

The more you look at it the madder his contract looks, with three years to run and £60million still due to him. Those are big numbers for loan clubs to consider and even bigger for United for someone who might not be playing for you, dwarfs the cost of sacking Jose which cost us only £20million.

Personally I would prefer if we went for someone like Meslier, who is already ahead of Henderson in ability, yet three years younger.

8.) 19 Jun 2021 10:50:58
Grim, he only has two years left on his contact until June 2023. I fully agree that in hindsight the length and size of his contract seems like a bad decision.

I disagree that Henderson is merely "adequate". I think he is a very talented keeper. I'm also not the only one, with teams such as Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, PSG and Dortmund all having had him seriously scouted and interested in signing him (although with PSG signing Donnarumma I expect their interest has gone now) .

Top sides are interested because they see the talent in him. I'd say his current level is greater than that of DDG during his first couple of season's with us.

It would be madness of the club to let him go without giving him a season as first choice to see if he can prove himself at the highest level.

9.) 19 Jun 2021 11:40:05
For me there is no contest between them. If DDG can restore his confidence, which is the problem, then in terms of skill I haven't seen Henderson do anything in the numerous chances he was given last season to suggest he's anywhere near the same level. He's English and has come through our ranks and people like that. But he's not really done a thing as far as I'm concerned other than play well for a lesser side on loan where he was tested far more often.

10.) 19 Jun 2021 11:56:26
Hendo for me all day long. If we lose him we will be searching for a new number 1 in a year or 2 and will struggle to find a keeper as good as him because if he's playing every week he's going to get better.

11.) 19 Jun 2021 12:40:00
Option on the additional year Shappy, we usually extend those because we want to get a fee for a player. With the exception of the Dog Walker, have we ever let a player at DDG's level go without asking for money in return?

I agree Henderson is talented, but so is Lingard, at United he is a squad player, not a first team player.

Interesting that Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, PSG and Dortmund all looked at Dean. However PSG decided on Donnurumma, Dortmund went with Kobel, Spurs were actually looking at Maignan until he went to Milan, Chelsea considered Donnarumma, but now he has gone to PSG will stick with what they have and Arsenal want Onana.

12.) 19 Jun 2021 13:52:27
The problem is, is that DDG has made mistakes for the past 3 years and until this season wasn't dropped. Romero deserved to be our number 1.

In OGS first season DDG cost us a place in the CL by making some very silly errors, which were partly down to OGS wanting to play out from the back. The club then went on to offer him a huge new contract, which he didn't deserve due to how poor his form was. Even Mourinho said on Sky Sports that is was very surprised that he got a deal like that given how poor he had been.

OGS can't make a decision. He Brough Henderson back, left Romero in the lurch and the only GK who was probably happy was Grant.

I can't wait for the club to offer pogba a new monster deal and watch him play poorly again. He clearly doesn't want to be at the club. During the Euros his comments have made it obvious.

Utd are a poorly managed club, run by amateurs.

13.) 19 Jun 2021 14:08:12
There is no proof that Henderson will only get better and improve and there is no proof that a goalkeeper at 31 will keep declining.
The only real question is if we believe Henderson will become a top top keeper, i personally don't. So we have two options:
1) We believe in him becoming a top keeper and far better than the current ability of De Gea so we keep him.
2)We don't believe in him and believe that it is a risk so we sell him NOW because now his price is higher. After 1-2 average seasons his price will go down. Furthermore between two "average" keepers i would prefer the one with the expiration date (De Gea) . He has two year contract and we have enough time to think about his replacement if we won't renew his contract. He will also be 33 and we will have an easy desicion. With Henderson it will not be an easy desicion because of age and nationality, so if he is half decent stick with him so stick with an average keeper.
So the sensible choice is stick with De Gea and at the same time try to find his replacement after 1-2 seasons.

14.) 19 Jun 2021 14:14:59

You’ve just said OGS can’t make a decision then described the decision he made. I think what you mean is he made a decision you didn’t agree with which is different.

15.) 19 Jun 2021 14:37:30
Id sell them both and go for Oblak. You never know until you ask.

16.) 19 Jun 2021 15:17:47
Is this a new trend over here where players are judged without being given a proper chance to prove themselves? And yet we got Ole in charge.

I agree DeGea is the more experienced and better shot stopper of the two and if possible I would have him as No.1 with Henderson as backup rotating with him and gaining experience in the process.

However, if we have to make a choice then based on the mistakes made by both I would keep Henderson as he is much younger and a better all round keeper and has time on his side to improve upon his weakness. I would give him a season to see if he can step up and if not we can always get someone better.

The problem though is with DeGea's contract right now and we somehow need to handle that.

GrimisnotDead as far as Lingard is concerned he was given more than enough chances in the first team which he failed to take. And other teams haven't come in for Hendo probably because we are not yet ready to let him go.

17.) 19 Jun 2021 16:02:25
It's definetely the riskier of the options. Ole immediately alienated Lukaku upon his arrival in place of the local lad. After numerous options up front the situation will require major attention at the end of this season. Will history repeat itself?

I personally think it's the wrong decision but I hate the idea of rotating GKs. If he's chosen Henderson then so be it.

18.) 19 Jun 2021 21:08:56
LPU, wasn't Lingard only behind Lukaku in the scoring stats in 17/ 18 under Jose, hardly not taking his chance. He then had his dip in form which was due to his well know off field issues. Ole initially refused to let him go on loan, its was only because Jesse forced the issue that Ole buckled, and you have to agree he took his chance at WH.

Teams haven't come in for Hendo because clubs know we aren't ready to let him go? That is not how football works, if a club was truly interested in him they would have already sounded out his agent about the possibility of a move, the fact that the majority have scouted him and moved on says alot.

But that is the beauty of football, we all have opinions, for me Henderson would be perfect for an Everton or West Ham, but not a top four team, which is what we expect to be.

19.) 20 Jun 2021 04:47:01
GrimisnotDead, Lingard played well for a while but he was afforded a lot of chances to make the position his own which he failed to do so. So, effectively he has not taken his chance.

How do you know that other clubs haven't come in for him? And without even giving Henderson a proper chance why are you even judging him to not be good for us? Just give him a chance to prove himself before making a hasty judgement.

20.) 20 Jun 2021 07:53:18
Grim, I don't think Lingard and Henderson's situations are comparable.

Lingard has made 133 appearances for the club over a 7 year period, under three different managers.

Henderson has made 13 appearances, in one year, under one manager, with 8 of them coming in a run of consecutive games.

Teams have come in for Henderson, they have approached his agent and they have approached the club and have been met with a flat out no.

The fact they have moved on when a top club have refused to sell them a player, only says they are well run and not stupid.

21.) 20 Jun 2021 08:12:12
Herrera, while there might not be any definitive proof that a 24 year old goalkeeper will continue to improve. It's pretty well accepted that most players hit their peaks in their late 20's or early 30's. With keepers often hitting their peaks later and sustaining it for longer.

So while there is not proof that Henderson will improve, probably around 90% of keepers at his age will continue to improve.

Is there any definitive proof that DDG will continue to decline? No, but he has shown a steady and continuous decline over the past 3 seasons. That's more than a blip. Poor form lasts week's, maybe months, but not years.

For me the only way I see DDG rediscovering his form is if he moves and has a new challenge. Even then I doubt that will see him return to his absolute best.

For me he is a similar keeper to Casillas. Great shot stopper, average at everything else. Even at his peak DDG was weak in the air, his distribution was average, his command of his area was poor. But he made saves that no one had a right to make. His reactions were freakish.

The issue is as you age your reaction speed declines first. We saw it with Casillas and we are seeing it with DDG. His shot stopping is still way above average, but it's not anywhere near where it was when he was 26. And in my opinion it never will be again.

This has exposed DDG's lack of quality in all other goalkeeping departments. His inability to play out from the back has seen him lose his spot for the national team, first to Kepa now to Simon.

Both decent keepers but not world class.

The reality is that he is likely to continue to decline. Apparently Ole has set him with specific training to try and improve his distribution. Something I wonder why no other managers/ goalkeeping coaches have done. Over the past 8 years he should have been working to improve his weaknesses and make himself a better all round keeper, that would have mitigated his loss in reaction time as he aged and would have kept him near the top.

Currently there are maybe 4 or 5 keepers in the EPL better than him. With some young ones who over the next year or so might overtake him as well. Dean Henderson being one of them.

I expect if you went to all the top sides and offered them DDG or Henderson right now for the same price, say 30m. The majority would pick Henderson. That tells you all you need to know about who should be out No.1.

22.) 20 Jun 2021 08:38:42
I miss van der Sar : (.

23.) 20 Jun 2021 09:39:56
Trololo, I miss VDS, my personal favourite keeper during my lifetime.



04 Jan 2021 20:54:57
Rojo to boca juniors? Not sure if accurate but Would make sense for him to finish his playing back in his natice argentina.




27 Jul 2020 10:12:15
Does jack grealish helping villa stay up make it easier or harder for a deal to be done to sign him up?


{Ed002's Note - It makes no difference.}



29 Jun 2019 17:16:16
Rashford close to signing a new deal.

Great news.


1.) 29 Jun 2019 18:07:02
Yeh fantastic.

2.) 29 Jun 2019 18:58:18
Good news he’s committing to a new deal altho if reported figures are true i'm not sure why he would get 250k a week plus at his age where do you go from there. Another massive contract for a young player that needs to prove he's worth half that. I guess i'm just a old f****r and despise the over paid nature of these young lads who have done nothing within the game. Personally if have said score 30+ goals this season we can talk about a wage increase.

3.) 29 Jun 2019 19:12:09
Who knows if that reported figure is true and who cares how we personally feel about how much he earns. The key point is that its all relative.

If sanchez is on what he's reported to be on then rashford has every claim to earn as much as he can. he's done more for this club in the 10 games he played under lvg than sanchez has ever done for us.

Martial and shaw just got new contracts and i assume a pay rise, rashford deserves it more than them.

Most posters on here in the last third of the season becried the lack of players who put the required effort in and have the desire to improve themselves. Rashford has both those qualities as well as technical abilities that few in his age range can match.

4.) 29 Jun 2019 19:34:56
Shouldn’t be on three times what Wan-Bissaka has paid. He’s equally as unproven over a sustained period of time.

5.) 29 Jun 2019 20:03:17
Great news if true he has every chance of being the focal point of this new young team we are building.

6.) 30 Jun 2019 09:59:16
This is clearly nonsense. It’s all gone to his head and he is holding the club to ransom for £300K a week isn’t he?



08 Jun 2019 12:13:05
A few reports coming out now that united are getting frustrated and are surprised by the fees involved in signing british young players.

Have they been living under a rock for the past 6 or 16 years?

I completely understand that they have certain valuations for players and if they are quoted over that then they should back away in most circumstances and move on to other targets.

But prices for young british homegrown players have always been at a premium whether its rio ferdiand, andy carroll or kyle walker and i would be baffled if this was surprising them.


1.) 08 Jun 2019 13:07:43
There’s no doubt a Manchester United tax is added to the value of any player we approach.

Daniel James being the perfect example. We are paying twice the fee Leeds were quoted only four months ago.

2.) 09 Jun 2019 02:52:55
Rooney Rio Andy Carroll sterling Walker

The list goes on homegrown cost a hell of a lot more.

3.) 09 Jun 2019 08:28:29
Except Rooney and Rio were worth every penny for our club!

4.) 09 Jun 2019 09:38:35
Very true Eric. As is Sterling for City.

Imagine what Scholes would be worth today 🤔.

5.) 09 Jun 2019 12:36:56
AT Wazza finally someone who really rates Scholes as high as me, if we had a player like Scholes in our current squad our defense wouldn't be as exposed as it has been the past years, he is what i would call MAESTRO. one of those players that don't get recognize in England but are truly hard to find.

6.) 09 Jun 2019 15:22:58
Remanutd he’s exactly the type of player we need. You see Rashford making so many runs but the ball moves sideways.

I remember a game we were losing, playing badly and Scholes was brought on. It was the end of his career. But he collected the ball four times and each time he passed the ball forward. He was so aggressive with his passing, fast and direct.




DSG's banter posts with other poster's replies to DSG's banter posts


04 Oct 2021 18:16:23
Two points:

1.) Can we now add Watford to the list of teams with a better manager than us?

2.) Scott Mctominay can't even get into Scotlands first team in central midfield and has to be shoehorned in as an auxiliary centre half but starts for us every week.


1.) 04 Oct 2021 18:58:29
DSG McTominay is a good player. However I said something similar about Fred… when him and mctominay are squad players, starting maybe 20 games in all comps max then you’ll know we will have a very strong midfield. Whilst they’re first choice, we won’t compete with the absolute best.

2.) 04 Oct 2021 19:00:38
You can add the Scotland manager to the list too dsg. And Big sam and Tony pulis.

3.) 05 Oct 2021 10:34:47

McTominay playing CB for Scotland has less to do with him being shoehorned in and more to do with Scotland's lack of decent options at CB at that time. He's first choice for Scotland and more often than not plays midfield now.



26 Sep 2021 23:47:27
"I said it even when they [#mufc] were winning, even when Ronaldo scored, they don’t play well enough as a team to win this league in my view. They don’t play well enough as a team. "

"I still look at them [#mufc] and think of them as a team who win games in moments. I look at Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City, they are teams. They put team performances in. That’s not to say United never do, but Ole now has to get United into a team. "

Quotes from Gary Neville, forget the fact its taken him 3 years to realise what most fans realised after 1, he makes a valid point on us being too reliant on individuals as opposed to having a style of play to fall back on.

Do find it odd however that Neville expects Ole to somehow develop a style mid season after being unable to do so for 3 seasons now.


1.) 27 Sep 2021 07:18:07
The time for change of style was set up perfectly this summer, with the calibre of 2 out of 3 of the incomings, all the people thinking if we signed a DM Ole would change his style…. NO he would not this is all he knows and all he is prepared to try, he keeps banging on and on with same ol system which will eventually be his downfall but in meantime we just have to get on with it.

You can play this style of play and be much quicker and attacking but to do that, you need a better right back 2 better then McFred possibly even a better CB and a decent crosser of the ball would be nice, but we don’t have them and we have Ole leading the pack so be more of the same for the short term at least, but it won’t be too long!

2.) 27 Sep 2021 07:47:10
Neville stating the obvious as we all know and agree with.

Not sacking OLe anytime soon by the looks of it but nothing to stop him changing his backroom staff for a more experienced and progressive one . which he won't do of course.

3.) 27 Sep 2021 08:24:07
Again Jackamus, making assumptions and imposing them as fact. His preferred formation at Molde, then when he first arrived at United was a 4-3-3 with two CMs ahead of a DM. I've seen many reports and accounts, as recently as the commentators on the Villa game, stating he would prefer a 4-3-3 but personal does not allow it (logical as Matic is the only real DM at the club and can't play two games in a row, and struggles with 90 minutes) . So the two holding midfielders is far from being the only system Solskjaer knows.

4.) 27 Sep 2021 08:32:02
Wish someone would ask Gary Neville why he hasn’t given as much time to the multiple managers at Salford as he advocated for his mate Ole. After 3 years in the role, a TV pundit is having to tell the United manager to organise the 11 individuals into a team and the board are not able to see it.

5.) 27 Sep 2021 09:31:15
So Ole really wants to play 4-3-3 but he hasn’t got the players to utilise his preferred system I give up!

I have no problem with people defending Ole but let’s at least have a sensible debate. I don’t think Ole has ever played 4-3-3 at Utd? Herrera and Matic were holding midfielders whilst Pogba was allowed to get forward and if this was indeed his preferred formation why have we not seen it for another 3 years?!

Sensible Utd fans know exactly what Ole is. There is no need for excuses. The truth is his style of play is limited and does not extend beyond individuals producing moments of quality to win games of football.

We’ve been waiting nearly 4 years for Ole to evidence his style of play and we’ll still waiting. We’ve heard talk of attacking football, working hard, pressing from the front but in reality we’ve seen absolutely no evidence of this. What we have seen is an excellent counter attacking team with some good individuals capable of winning football matches.

I’m not an Ole hater, I really want him to succeed. I give him credit for building a good squad and stabilising the Club which has allowed us to sign better players but he’s light years behind the likes of Pep, Klopp and Tuchel.

Ole is a million miles away from introducing the modern, progressive football we all crave. Where’s the pressing? Where’s the plan to win the ball back quickly and high up the pitch? In possession where’s the patterns of play? Where’s the rotation? But don’t worry it will be ok when Ole finally gets a DM and we can play 4-3-3. Can you not see how absolutely ludicrous that sounds?!

6.) 27 Sep 2021 09:46:29
I'm not saying he's not a long way off implemented great eye-catching football. I was merely pointing out another assumption being branded as fact. Ole has used other systems, the 4-3-3 and even the 4-4-2 diamond. When he first arrived he had Herrera playing box to box ahead of Matic, not playing as a DM alongside him. And his championship winning sides had a DM with two creative CMs in front of them. There's no denying that injuries led Ole to implementing a two holding midfielder system towards the end of his first half season, and that he hasn't gone back since, but then how could he without the personal to do so. Most reports have stated he wants a DM, he wanted Rice but was priced out of a move. Fabrizio Romano has said it is now the priority, before the current season began. It's one thing to be disappointed or upset with the football, I too would like to see better. It's another to make unfounded assumptions and attempt to pass them off as fact.

7.) 27 Sep 2021 09:53:47
Sorry but Neville talks a lot of rubbish. before the season started he said if Man United brought Kane they would win the league or at least challenge. You have since brought Ronaldo who is better than Kane yet he now thinks you aren't a team and can't win the league.

Need neville to just admit his friend is not good enough but ofcourse he won't go as far as to do that.

Ps. i don't think many reasonable people thought United would win the league.

8.) 27 Sep 2021 09:56:03
I think that's the point that grates with me the most, its the contradictions around how we want to play.

For example, Lukaku was overlooked and transferred out of the club so we could play this high pressing attacking football that he wasnt apparently suited for.

Then we bring in Ronaldo who at 37 is hardly going to be pressing from the front like Carlos Tevez.

Then Lindelof is apparently the problem, leading to us playing a deep line with 2 holding midfielders. To rectify this we sign Raphael Varane but still play deep with 2 holding midfielders.

9.) 27 Sep 2021 10:10:52
Whatever Ole’s limitations are why are we listening to Neville? He has far too much to say about every subject and his one spell as a Manager was laughable.

Pundits sit there pontificating about everything and none of them are prepared to show us how it’s done. Shearer had a go and was poor, Neville had a go and was poor, Souness had some success, a lot of the younger ones just see punditry as an easy life. Everyone has an opinion, even when the evidence shows they have no clue.

10.) 27 Sep 2021 10:39:54
DSG - absolutely spot on mate.

LLV - Let’s stop pretending Ole isn’t playing the brand of football he wants because he hasn’t got the players. Read DSG’s post it’s all contradictory which is yet more evidence that Ole doesn’t really know what he’s doing or what his vision actually is. Nobody is passing anything off as fact merely analysing the evidence. When Ole hasn’t played 4-3-3 in nearly 3 years I’m not sure we can call it his preferred system or even something he’s moving towards. He could have signed a DM this summer he chose not to. We’ll have to agree to disagree pal, I fully accept everyone sees it differently.

In relation to another of DSG’s observations in my opinion Ronaldo has severely effected our ability to press from the front and probably means we won’t be as effective on the counter attack either. We probably need to move more towards a possession based game but we’ll never achieve that with McFred. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

11.) 27 Sep 2021 12:23:33
Nailed it DSG.

12.) 27 Sep 2021 13:11:24
We never press from the front anyway, so not sure how anyone can say Ronaldo don’t press no one does! He they do it’s half heartedly, Liverpool press from the front, that’s how it should be done if you want to press, but we don’t.

Ronaldo is filter then anyone in this squad, he blast all the others out of the water with his fitness test and results this season alone, but that’s really not how we play or him either, so that’s not really an argument.

13.) 27 Sep 2021 14:00:13
LLV, I’m making assumptions! And trying to pass off as fact, ok he played 433 in Molde! For gods sake…. and you say he tried different formations at united, how often it’s clear even to Stevie wonder what his preferred formation is.

Whilst we are on assumption’s are you not making one saying a professional footballer Matic can’t play back to back games because his legs are gone! Maybe they have maybe the have not, but it’s only an assumption from you that they have, I think if you actually ask Mr Matic he would deny such, so why are your preaching others not to make assumptions and your making them yourself…….



08 Sep 2021 12:29:56
Fred not available for our next two games due to the brazil FA invoking bans on premier league players not released for the international break.

Maybe a chance for donny to get a game depending on mctominays fitness.


1.) 08 Sep 2021 12:52:25
I'd hope so. Fred isn't as bad as he is often made out. But he is a limited player who is in poor form.

Surely Donny should be given a couple of games to try and lay down a marker.

If he doesn't play while Fred is banned a d McTominay isn't fully fit then it's time for him to leave sadly.

2.) 08 Sep 2021 13:17:36
I would hope Donny gets to games, but can see Pogba and Matic like lining up.

3.) 08 Sep 2021 13:18:54
If Donny doesn’t get a game now then he’s toast.

4.) 08 Sep 2021 13:26:14
Shappy, Fred should not be anywhere near a team with aspirations of winning major trophies. There's zero point in having limited qualities like winning the ball back, if you turnover possession almost immediately.

Let's hope Donny makes himself undroppable.

5.) 08 Sep 2021 14:24:39
It'll be Pogba and Matic. More chance of Lingard starting than Donny even though I'd be delighted to be wrong.

Donny will get 7 minutes at the end of the Young Boys game in midweek.

6.) 08 Sep 2021 14:30:50
Mumbles, I think Fred gets more abuse than he deserves due to people's frustrations about the club not having a world class midfielder.

Fred is limited and does have his flaws, but on the whole with how we set up and how we play he is fairly effective, certainly more effective at the job asked of him than Pogba, Donny and Matic. Which is why he starts.

Fred tends to win the ball back more than anyone else on the pitch, he also tend to have a pass success percentage in the mid to high 80's.

What let's him down is his control tend to put him in difficult situations and his passing isn't expansive enough.

That said Matic doesn't start because he has poor mobility and he can't last more than 70 minutes.

Pogba doesn't start because he lacks any sort of defensive sense or drive.

Donny doesn't start as he hasn't shown enough in the games he has been given to suggest he would offer more than Fred. Better passing but worse defensively.

Fred is the kind of player the top sides need once every 8-10 games, not every week and certainly not against the sides the club should be fairly easily beating.

The problem is that over the past 3 season's no one else has managed to perform better than Fred on a consistent basis. Maybe that is why the club looked at trying to find a deal for another midfielder. Sadly that didn't happen.

7.) 08 Sep 2021 14:35:40
Can they make the ban permanent?

8.) 08 Sep 2021 14:49:58
A blessing in disguise. As others have said though, Ole will probably just play McMatic or Mogba instead.

9.) 08 Sep 2021 15:04:42
Oh no, no fred, Ole will now shift to back 5 to help the team defensively against a mighty Newcastle.

{Ed025's Note - you must all be gutted rohan.. :)

10.) 08 Sep 2021 15:51:07
Ed025 we as a team have always had a special talent of letting out of form strikers get in form by letting them score against us. I fully back joelinton to score.

{Ed025's Note - lets be honest rohan, joelinton couldn,t score in a brothel mate.. :)

11.) 08 Sep 2021 16:32:33
Thats not so bad rohan, if we manage to beat those teams. Help their players get in form and make trouble for other contenders, evil plan ????.

12.) 08 Sep 2021 17:18:40
I really hope DVB gets a decent chance, not just a couple of games but 4 or 5 to make a claim. Matic is struggling, his reflexes are just not there anymore, anything knocked just slightly off from where he thinks the ball will go, he misses.

Shappy some news mate, Fred IS as bad as made out, the opposition target him for his lack of control and commentators and pundits alike are mentioning, more and more often Fred has given it away again. As I've said in the past I love his energy and total commitment but we need more.

13.) 08 Sep 2021 17:37:22
That goes without saying saying Shappy. I don't like Fred in the team because I don't think he's good enough to be a Manchester United player. He works hard but that's not a free pass. Lingard and James were similar. Hard workers but not good enough.

82% pass completion for a player who passes in 10 yards to the nearest player is appaling.

I don't think he's been treated unfairly at all. His time on the pitch mirrors the managers time in the dugout. Excuses made for mediocrity delivered.

14.) 08 Sep 2021 17:49:49
The 82% pass completion was to opposition players. Its actually 18% to team mates.

15.) 08 Sep 2021 18:53:48
Fred just needs to be given a run of games, I'm sure he will come good then.

16.) 08 Sep 2021 18:59:30
Fred is a massive weak link. He's a squad player not a starter.
If Donny and Fred gametime was swapped I would have no issues.
Fred playing 10-15 games a season is fine. He's backup at best.

17.) 08 Sep 2021 19:21:49
With Sancho potentially out with injury I would go back to the Leeds Game and play Pogba left. Give VDB a go in the middle either alongside Matic and have him as the energetic 8 or as the 6 if McTominy back and allow McTominy to being the box to box energy whilst VDB plays the quarterback role and defensive play like Carrick.

18.) 08 Sep 2021 20:03:55
Fred is the best player we have.

19.) 08 Sep 2021 20:31:38
There are sunday league players who work hard.
Fred can't control the ball let alone the midfield.

20.) 08 Sep 2021 20:37:52
While Fred's average passing success is down to 82% this season, he has averaged 87-88% in all the other season's of his United career. Which probably highlights the poor start to the season he has had this year.

21.) 08 Sep 2021 21:02:59
But that stat means nothing when the pass is bad. As long as the player receives the pass, it's considered successful, but he plays behind the player, fast into their feet, basically makes them run in an opposite direction to the flow, or forces them to take two or three touches to get the ball under control. A good pass is a pass the receiver can either run onto, or pass anew with one touch. Fred's passes almost never fall into that category.

22.) 08 Sep 2021 21:16:11
Donny doesn’t play in Fred’s position and McT is recovering. Sorry but it has Matic all over it.

23.) 08 Sep 2021 22:02:32
LLV spot on. Stats without context are useless.

24.) 08 Sep 2021 22:10:30
LLV, it's a measure to judge a player but shouldn't be considered without context or as a sole measure of a players passing ability.

For example you could play every pass back to one of the CB's and end the match with 100% pass success.

The other issue is that we consider interceptions a mark of a good defensive positioning/ reading of the game. Yet it in Fred's we never give any credit to the defending player and place all the blame on Fred for the pass being intercepted. Maybe a few times his passes are just intercepted by good work from the opposition.

I never said Fred's passing was good, but he doesn't give the ball away with poor passes quite as often as many would assume.

This idea that him winning the ball is pointless as he always gives it straight back just isn't true.

What is true though is that he lacks the technical ability and vision to make the most of the ball once he has it.

25.) 08 Sep 2021 23:36:17
Mctominay is still out matic is long past it so if dvb doesn't get a start at neecastle and then overlooked at young boys then I think we can safely assume Ole didn't want him.

26.) 08 Sep 2021 23:59:51
Just a perfect storm. No one will be happy unless DvdB wins ballon D'or and Fred is sent to the tower.

Fred has had a rough start to this season, no doubt.

Donny deserves a chance given that poor start. If he played well, he stays in the team.

Fred remains an important member of this squad, and I'm sure he will have an important part to play in our title winning season ????.

27.) 09 Sep 2021 00:36:27
I think an Ed added some question marks!

{Ed001's Note - it is just the way it came through mate.}

28.) 09 Sep 2021 03:14:45
DodgyBanter, Fred as an "important member" in a title winning season - would love to see that ????????.

29.) 09 Sep 2021 03:25:01
I think I put an emoji. I thought someone was questioning my pretty outrageous claim of a title season. I can but dream Ed.

{Ed001's Note - ah right yes, Ed007 was just saying on the widget some emojis are not showing up, I will mention this to Ed33. Cheers mate and keep dreaming, everyone needs to have dreams, no matter how unlikely.}

30.) 09 Sep 2021 03:48:55
Ed001, it seems DodgyBanter has crashed the emojis on here by that outrageous title claim.

Poor emojis.

{Ed001's Note - it is very possible they are just too busy laughing to appear.... ;-)

31.) 09 Sep 2021 05:43:59
Ed001, very possible. Let me try ????.

{Ed001's Note - ohhh must be! Nice one dodgy you broke the emojis...}

32.) 09 Sep 2021 09:40:58
Ed001, any chance of Ole replacing the smiling emojis for the time being?

{Ed001's Note - he does like to smile.}

33.) 09 Sep 2021 10:29:10
@shappy: "This idea that him winning the ball is pointless as he always gives it straight back just isn't true. "

Again, the same stats do not prove this. Imagine the following scenario, which happens a lot with Fred. Fred passes to Pogba, the pass is heavy, Pogba has to take several touches to get the ball under control, by which time the opposition player has made a challenge and come away with the ball. Here, from a stat point of view, Fred has a successful pass, and Pogba is chalked up as losing possession. Although technically this may be true, ultimately it was Fred m that I initiated the bad pass that Pogba was unable to take under control, leading to a loss of possession. It's these kind of things that are constant in Fred's play that make him a bad choice as a first choice midfielder, and the stats will 'ever show this.



14 Jul 2021 14:21:43
Watching it at times it looked like Rice and Phillips were playing a different sport to Jorginho and Verratti. Just could not match their bravery, composure or technical ability whatsoever.

Which is related to us because England reminded me of how we set up sometimes in big games with Mcfred and if we are looking ar Rice to solve our issues in midfield i don't see much changing on that front.


1.) 14 Jul 2021 14:55:10
Both of those players would improve our midfield but not realistic. Rice would massively improve our midfield as a holding midfielder with either Pogba/ Van de beek next to him.
Just because he plays slightly differently to those 2 does not make him a massive upgrade.
The question for me is who we should get and how much would we have to pay.

2.) 14 Jul 2021 16:29:13
It all depends on Ole.

If we signed Rice, then played him alongside McTominey, with McT instructed to play a primarily defensive role like he does alongside Fred, then no, it's not going to change.

However, if Rice was signed to play the defensive role alone, with a partner (either Pogba, Donny or McT) alongside him given freedom to roam forward, then it would be a massive transformation, and exactly what we need.

The same is true no matter who we buy. We could buy Jorginho or even someone like Kimmich, but if we use them as part of McFred 2.0 then the result is the same.

Rice wouldn't be quite my first choice (I'd prefer a more creative CDM), but definitely a good signing IF he is used properly.

3.) 14 Jul 2021 16:52:12
Ole has taken a lot of stick this past season for playing McFred.

Playing two more defensive midfielders in the double pivot is apparently defensive, cowardly and negative according to many posters on here.

We have seen Southgate accused of being just as cautious and defensive this summer by playing Rice and Phillips as his midfield. Although he did just lead England to their first major final in 55 years and only their second ever.

It's funny how some managers are labelled "defensive" based off of their midfield pairing and others are not.

No one considers Klopp's Liverpool side defensive because they played the more defensive midfield duo of Fabinho and Henderson on their way to winning their first title in 30 years. Klopp even played Gini Wijnuldum in a defensive styled No.10 who's primary job was to press and make tackles and win the ball back high up the pitch.

Chelsea won the UCL with a starting midfield of Jorginho and Kante played in front of THREE centre backs. With the full backs as well then that's 7 of the 10 starting outfield players who could be considered defenders first.

Barcelona have played all season with Busquets and Frankie De Jong as their starting midfield.

Over in Italy, AC Milan had a resurgence with the midfield of Tonali and Kessie.

While Juventus had a rotating midfield, but would often play two of Bentancur, Arthur, Danilo, McKennie or Rabiot as their midfield.

Bayern Munich played Kimmich and Goretzka more often than not in midfield, but also had Alaba, Tolisso, Martinez and Roca play minutes in midfield in a league they absolutely dominate.

Dortmund often played Witsel and Delaney at least until Witsel got injured. Then Emre Can, Dahoud and Bellingham covered for him.

RB Leipzig, play Kampl, Laimer and Sabitzer in the double pivot, although they played many different systems and it is much harder to establish who and what system was first choice.

PSG in a real one team league often lined up with two of Danilo Pereira, Parades, Gueye, Verratti and Herrera in their midfield. Marquinhos played there a lot the previous season, but dropped back more permanently into defence now Tiago Silva has departed.

Lille surprised everyone and won the French league with the defensive Bruno Andre and Soumare as their most used double pivot.

Some of these sides play a more defensive way and others a more offensive way. But the same point remains, all of them play with at least two midfielders who's natural instincts and best skills lend themselves to playing a more defensive role.

In fact among the top sides it seems far rarer for a side to play with a single defensive midfielder in their midfield.

This leads me on to wonder if we did sign a player like Rice, would he automatically be paired with one of the more offensive players like Pogba or DvdB, or would he be paired with one of the more defensive players like McTominay or Fred?

For West Ham he has tended to play with Soucek who while grabbing a few goals tends to be a strong defensive presence. While for England Rice has tended to play along side Phillips this tournament and Henderson before that.

It seems that playing with two more defensive minded midfielders is fairly common and in vouge currently. I would suggest that this is because it gives more freedom to the full backs to get forward, while offers a better shield in front of what is becoming far more common, ball playing CB's.

It far more common to find a teams width coming from the full backs, the ball rotation and retention from the centre backs, the creativity from inside forwards and the heart of midfield offering industry and defensive solidity, filling in the gaps and shielding the defence allowing the defenders to get more time and space to get involved in play.

4.) 14 Jul 2021 17:48:43
The difference is shappy, all that you have said are good enough to take the onus of one of them to sit and one to break. McFred doesn’t work that way, if Mctominay bursts forward you’ve got fred who’s as much use as his namesake the Freddo left to sit. If Fred breaks, more often than not he loses the ball. It’s all well pointing out other teams playing with a central two, but they have a system that works. Ours doesn’t, and that’s down to Ole having chose to stick with those two.

5.) 14 Jul 2021 18:02:48
Agree with Thorne. McTominay can't play as a defensive two. Signing Rice would allow him to get forward more.

Sadly, I don't think the manager would change anything though.

Shappy, you've just described completely different systems there. Not too sure what comparison you're trying to make?

6.) 14 Jul 2021 19:34:35
Lol Shappy comparing Fred with Fabinho/ Henderson.
The latter two are from different planet in terms of quality.

The problem we have is McFred are not creative on the ball, don't possess the passing range and don't move the ball quickly to our forwards.

VDB with a proper CDM like Rice will give us a fantastic midfield pivot to build on.

7.) 14 Jul 2021 21:06:51
Its very difficult to know what the manager wants.
Is pogba going to play on the left wing? Or in midfield?
A dcm was not on our priority list of positions to fill.
Is ole playing 2 deep lying midfielders to protect our back 4 and does he intend to continue that with a new cb in place.
Mcfred is good at disrupting opposition play but bad at ball retention and creativity.
At the moment we essentially have matic fred mctom vdb pogba fighting for 2 spots with bruno sitting just ahead of them. I'd imagine garner will go on loan.

8.) 14 Jul 2021 21:07:41
I think if Utd were tearing it up with Fred and McT it wouldn't matter. I have no problem with a so-called defensive pairing, as long as they can play a bit too, as many of Shappy's examples can. Unfortunately, the pair we have been lumbered with are simply energetic battlers, sure there's room for them in a squad but not as 'the' Manchester United midfield. Ideally, neither should be first choice, let alone both. I don't buy this nonsense about Ole 'having' to play them to cover a weak defence. He just has no choice, really. I do believe Rice would be horrifically over-priced and beyond us (at least in this window), but we're not talking about the differences between specficic pairings, we're talking about players who can do the mucky stuff and also play vs, well, donkeys. There isn't a single player in the squad who 'should' be starting in midfield for Utd. For what it's worth I'd consider Fernades more a striker really, he doesn't belong in the war-zone.

9.) 14 Jul 2021 21:12:49
Obviously every team plays slightly different systems, they have to as a team is to an extent the sum of its parts. Some teams have creative wide players, some have attacking full backs, some have a No.10 others don't, some have a false 9 or a back three etc etc.

How the midfield functions as a sum of the rest of the side is the crux of it all.

I'm just really pointing out that very few top sides play with a single defensive pivot. Most have at least two midfielders who carry more defensive burden that offensive. It's quite normal to have a double pivot where both players are expected to tackle, to press and to win the ball. Some are lucky enough to have players who can do that AND offer a more progressive movement of the ball.

Also I'm not saying McFred are good enough or comparable to those players.

Just that stylistically playing with two more defensive midfielders in a double pivot isn't that uncommon.

I find the idea that if we sign another CDM that we will automatically play someone like Pogba or Donny alongside them. The reality is that whoever plays along side any potential CDM we sign will still be expected to make tackles, to work hard, to press the opposition and to track runners.

Yes the midfield needs rebuilding, as simply put it isn't fit for purpose as it is. But the idea that we can sign a CDM then play someone who is only focused on attacking alongside them probably won't work out.

10.) 14 Jul 2021 23:32:29
But McTominay and Fred aren't CDMs, we only have Matic and Garner for that.

So we either put faith in Garner or sign a proper CDM to give the other footballers the license to get forwards.

11.) 15 Jul 2021 08:18:20
Sepp ole didn't want to play like that.

12.) 15 Jul 2021 09:10:41
Ole initially played with one CDM a box to box and an CAM. The double pivot seems to come from his lack of faith in the defense, which could shift with someone like Varane coming in. I don't particularly believe this is how Ole wants to play, as that is not how he began as manager.

Things changed when Smalling got injured after that initial spell in charge, and results suffered, leading to the double pivot the following year, with Smalling departing.

13.) 15 Jul 2021 09:54:17
There is a level of balance a manager will look to when building his team. It's fairly standard that you look to get 5 of the 10 outfield players in attacking positions, along with 5 offering ball retention and defensive cover.

At United we play with a four players (RW, ST, LW and No.10) who are clear offensive players. often with Shaw providing the 5th offensive option playing on either the over lap or under lap on the left.

That means ideally you don't want one of the midfield double pivot in the attack initially as it would unbalance your side, creating gaps for the opposition to counter via.

For the same reason you don't really want the RB to be overlapping either as that again would give us 6 players in the offensive third and unbalance us.

Occasionally you might want a midfielder to break forward during the second or third phase of an attack once the opposition has regrouped and are back in their defensive shape. You then need a 6th player to come in to find/ create space.

What we really lack from of midfielders is the ability to move the ball quickly and accurately as well as carrying out their defensive duties.

McFred's biggest weakness is they move the ball too slowly, which means by the time our forwards get the ball the opposition are back in shape and they now have to win a 1v1 to create the space that was there a few seconds before when the pass to then should have been played.



02 Jul 2021 16:47:22
First Mata, now Lee Grant new contract.

Amazing to see the club securing the futures of such key players.

Fingers crossed fred the red and albert the kit man are tied down soon as well.


1.) 02 Jul 2021 17:48:06
Means one of Ddg or Henderson may be about to leave.

{Ed014's Note - both more likely

2.) 02 Jul 2021 18:20:34
Do you believe there is a chance both will leave? Isn't it too progressive for our club?

3.) 02 Jul 2021 20:16:49

With Tom Heaton signing, it does make you think about the futures of DDG and Henderson. I thought he would be 3rd choice, clearly not.

{Ed014's Note - I’ve said before I’m not convinced by either and Heaton would be ideal backup to Oblak whilst making some money from both Ddg and Henderson, both sellable assets.

4.) 02 Jul 2021 20:35:14
So that looks like Heaton as second choice, and Grant as third.

Means that it's almost certain one of DDG or Henderson will leave this summer either permanently or on loan.

While I definitely think it's worth giving Henderson a run before a final decision about whether he is good enough of not. The reality is it will be though to move DDG on.

I am struggling now to see where he could go. PSG have just signed Donnarumma, while AC Milan replaced him with Maignan (an excellent player btw) . Bayern have Neuer, Real have Courtois, Barcelona have Ter-Stegen, Atletico have Oblak. All now better keepers than DDG.

Inter have Handanovic, Roma are looking to sign Patricio. In England City and Liverpool have better keepers in Ederson and Alisson. Arsenal are looking at Onana and in honesty couldn't afford him. Spurs and Leicester have keepers who are on par and would probably struggle to afford him. Chelsea I don't think would go anywhere near him. While Kepa and Mendy are arguably at a similar level to DDG currently.

The only top side who I think could afford him AND he is currently better than their current No.1 is Juventus.

Literally every other top side has either a keeper as good as him or better.

That makes it a tough sell.

5.) 02 Jul 2021 21:31:58
I honestly don't know what people see in Alisson. He had so much blunders this season. He isn't any better than DDG tbh.

Anyway, if we are playing this game, perhaps if we buy Oblak, DDG could go to Atletico, and I supose Henderson would find buyers.
Other than that, Inter is looking for a Handanovic replacement soon (or so I have read somewhere), but I doubt they have the money.

6.) 02 Jul 2021 23:12:41
Allison had a difficult year Trololo but even in this year he saved them a lot of times but made a lot of mistakes. Mistakes can happen but he is still a top class keeper and way better than Henderson and De Geas current ability.

7.) 03 Jul 2021 07:22:53
So who is to say he won't keep making those mistakes? Perhaps he just looked very good while they had VVD defending him? Perhaps DDG would look much better if he had better defensive line up in front of him?
I honestly don't think he is a top level keeper, but then again, that is just my opinion.

8.) 03 Jul 2021 09:14:32
Totally agree on Allison, if ddg had a season like him we'd be saying get rid, oh we are I forgot.




DSG's rumour replies


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13 Sep 2021 11:09:07
Yh read a story that Pogba is more amenable to signing a new deal, the way he's been playing this year, would be good to tie him down.




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09 Aug 2021 08:14:59
Is he going to get enough game time at villa to make the loan worthwhile?




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02 Aug 2021 12:06:31
Do we want a player who allegedly refused to turn up to training to force a move?

Would strike me as having an “attitude problem” if true.




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15 Jul 2021 20:30:40
Henderson for PL, DDG for the CL and cups. Other clubs have operated in such a fashion. For example Casilas and Diego Lopez for real madrid.


{Ed0666's Note - England with Clemence and Shilton



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15 Jul 2021 20:28:56
Hard to buy a player if he doesn't want to leave Italy mind.


{Ed0666's Note - You do what most rich clubs do bribe the player.




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15 Oct 2021 09:32:11
2 points off the top so on paper he looks like he's doing an acceptable job.

But we all know that comes with huge caveats.

Weve played well in one game this season, that being the first one.

Weve been hugely fortunate that both west ham (Antonio) and everton (Richarlison/ DCL) and maybe newcastle (Wilson) didn't have their starting strikers fit otherwise we could easily be mid table.

Add into the fact that our run of fixtures up until december are incredibly difficult, Its hard to see us being near the top after that and i think Ole will be under huge pressure like LVG and Mourinho eventually succumbed to.




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12 Oct 2021 20:51:38
5 first team centre backs at the club, injuries can happen at any time, just have to deal with it.

We were quite fortunate with injuries last season when other teams were not.




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12 Oct 2021 12:11:42
Wijnaldum was about money and more importantly length of contract, players only have short careers and guarantee of income is important.

Barkley had a fair crack of the whip at chelsea under sarri and lampard, just not good enough for the top level. Drinkwater is a better example. who went to chelsea and hardly plays.




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11 Oct 2021 16:39:46
Quality player, simple as that. We are a much better team with him in the team than without in my opinion and so are france evidently.

That being said, i think the squad is easily in the best position its been to cope with him moving on when you factor in the creativity of bruno, sancho and rashford.

I have never really got the criticism of his ability or the criticism of him as a flawed character, seems like a humble guy with bags of ability.




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11 Oct 2021 16:35:49
Depends which version of Sir Alex were talking about, if its the one who came from Aberdeen with a huge point to prove or if its the Sir Alex post his 1st attempt at retirement when he revamped his tactics with Quieroz and muelensteen. Then i think he'd be right up there with the best in my opinion.

If its from his later years i think he'd struggle to compete with the likes of pep and klopp as i don't think he'd gel with the modern footballer and fall out with them like mourinho does.