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09 Dec 2020 11:46:56
Phil Jones links to Newcastle surface again. Something went so badly wrong with this guy. A major lesson to be learnt by the club as oozed potential. Now, the more pressing question is how much better than Jones is Maguire? No joke. The gap is not as big as we'd like or hope.

BadRedDevil

1.) 09 Dec 2020 13:03:02
The gap is huge, one is on the pitch training and playing, the other is on the treatment table. His injuries ruined any chance he had, just never got a good full season.


2.) 09 Dec 2020 13:03:20
I've always called Maguire the fully fit version of Phil Jones. Maguire is just as calamitous as Jones.

The question is, does OGS have the balls to drop his underperformers.


3.) 09 Dec 2020 13:04:06
If I remember correctly we tried to sign Jones that same season you did and when that didn't work we went with Henderson. Seemed a huge mistake @ the time.


4.) 09 Dec 2020 13:24:57
Mad Hatter, doesn’t seem so. It mystifies me how Tuanzebe has not featured more after his performance away to PSG. He made Mbappe look ordinary and Lindelof better. Price tags matter at United. Only conclusion that can be drawn.


5.) 09 Dec 2020 17:21:55
Why is Jones anything to do with Henderson? Both different positions.


6.) 10 Dec 2020 08:28:42
Not sure Maguire is an £80m upgrade on Smalling though for example.


7.) 10 Dec 2020 15:04:40
BRD,

I agree with you. i'd quite like to see how a Bailly and Tuanzebe partnership would work. The problem is players come back from injuries and don't get game time for ages. Then they get thrown in at the deep end and get slated for notnpkaying well, when they haven't played enough games to be match sharp. I remember when OGS put Bailly at RB against Barcelona. He hadn't played any football prior to then as he had been injured.


 

 

 

BadRedDevil's banter posts with other poster's replies to BadRedDevil's banter posts

 

10 Mar 2024 17:42:24
Klopp. A brave and energetic manager with a positive relationship with his squad. Hasn’t been afraid to rely on youth when injuries dictated.

ETH. Cowardly energy sapping manager that constantly frowns. Seems hard to bond with. Would prefer to play a wholly inadequate Lindelof at left back rather than Dalot (and play Ogunneye at right back).

I don’t buy this “the players are to blame”. It’s entirely possible that many of these players are to blame and that ETH is an equally inadequate manager.

BadRedDevil

1.) 10 Mar 2024 18:05:52
Klopp, an established manager at a well run club, who has the full backing of the club hierarchy, has fully shaped the squad, ensured that system of football played at youth level is cohesive with first team, and has announced he is leaving the club.

ETH, a manager in his second season at a disaster of a club, already suspects that the club will be getting rid of him in the summer, inherited a squad put together by multiple managers with very different styles of play, has had limited time to ensure cohesion between youth sides and first team, and is fighting to save his job.

ETH has made mistakes, big ones. He’s difficult to get on with, that’s obvious. He’ll most likely be gone in the summer. But comparing his situation to Klopp’s displays a staggering lack of understanding of modern coaching. Last three managers have raised questions about players’ attitudes. We see it every week. Players pick and choose when they’ll put in effort.

In today’s game every City and Liverpool player was committed to pressing the opposition when not in possession. If United players are refusing to put in the hard yards because the manager is grumpy, that then that tells us everything we need to know about this squad.


2.) 10 Mar 2024 18:48:33
Silly comment. Ole had no issues getting on with players and wasn't great. For that matter SAF was hardly big pals with his players. Different coaches have different approaches. Our issue is that outside of a handful of players that have been injured most of the year, our squad is full of players that probably wouldn't get into any other squad in the top half.
I, for one, would like ETH to get another season where he actually has a proper structure around him.


3.) 10 Mar 2024 18:49:10
How many more seasons until we learn that half the team that failed with Ole might not be good enough to play title challenging football? If we agree the players might not be good enough, why not try that first?

I suspect that ineos do not want, or are not able to sell off the players from this team that are holding us back. So we will not be much better next season either. It is a long road back, and linger jf we fail to realise where we are.


4.) 10 Mar 2024 18:51:45
@danny when did I compare situations? I compared the person. Your post shows a staggering lack of ability to read.


5.) 10 Mar 2024 19:33:25
When Klopp took over Liverpool our manager was LvG, he was ripping apart the remains on SAF's team.

Since then, we have hired and fired Mourinho, Ole, and Rangnick.

As well as hiring EtH.

This squad has had players bought for LvG, Jose, Ole and EtH in the same time period that Liverpool having been buying players for Klopp. Building a side to suit Klopp, developing an academy to prepare players to play for Klopp.

Selling players who don't suit Klopp, signing players who do. Years and years of coaching to fine tune the style of play and make it second nature to the players.

The two situations are not remotely similar unless you are comparing Klopp's second season at Liverpool to United's season this year.


6.) 10 Mar 2024 19:36:25
What about the squad Klopp took over Danny mate? Because it seems like only our managers have excuses .
He took Liverpool in worst situation than we are and in two weeks they played at Spurs . They were the only team that outrun Tottenham that year . From the first year the patterns an style was there . Pep took a team who was fifth in possession the previous year and made them first . Every top manager has a clear style that is clear for us to see from the start, and that has nothing to do with players.


7.) 10 Mar 2024 19:44:38
Very good post BRD.
Liverpool played with a reserve keeper. A right footed cb at left back.
2 academy graduates.
Top scorer not fit to start
6 of starting 11 not with klopp more than 18 months
1 of preferred back 5 available.
Brave looking to win.
Watching that game and the spurs game just shows how badly we are prepared and coached.


8.) 10 Mar 2024 20:40:08
Forget talent, forget ability, the commitment, energy, intensity, hunger and desire on display this afternoon at Anfield is something we’ve not seen at Old Trafford for over a decade.

Our players are overpaid, egotistical, blame shifters that refuse to take responsibility or accept any accountability.

At the first sign of trouble the excuses are leaked to the press as the blame shifters hide behind what ever excuse they can muster.

Normally it’s the manager!

These players must be rooted out and sold, if they won’t follow instructions or tactics it’s time they were called out.

Every manager has attempted to appease them, it works for a while but never lasts. These players will get anyone the sack.

Is a new manager really going to improve the likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Rashford, Mctominay, Sancho, Martial et al no chance!


9.) 10 Mar 2024 20:42:40
Plus the 3 guys in midfield 2 are there 9 months 1 there 3 months. Look like they've played together for years. Klopp getting the best out of them.
The speed and fitness of the players is light years ahead of our players.


10.) 10 Mar 2024 20:43:25
You're right there mainoo. Always excuses for this club. Managers have come in to other clubs and made some progress. Near 2 seasons under ETH and I don't see where he is going and I don't buy the injury excuse as a fully fit squad is still rubbish. Two games today and both were more entertaining than anything I have seen under eth since he got the job. It may not be all his fault but he's scared to fail and in turn the players play like they too are scared.


11.) 10 Mar 2024 20:59:02
Manioo, the big difference is club structure.

At Liverpool and City they had professional structures in place with people who know what they are doing. They identified the manager they believed could take the club forward in the direction they had decided. These managers had the full backing of the club, and the players were left in no doubt that they could either get on board or they’d be out the door. Pep and Klopp are top class coaches. But their success is underpinned by well run clubs pulling in the same direction.

The contrast at United is that it is a poorly run club with inexperienced people in charge. The players have seen that if they don’t perform, the manager goes and they stay. Happened with Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole and now with ETH. Up until the League Cup win, ETH seemed to be making progress with the team. He took a hard line and the players that didn’t get on board were left behind. For me this highlights that he had the club’s backing and players felt like they had to perform.

Since then the uncertainty surrounding the potential sale weakened ETH’s position and player performances have gradually gotten worse. There’s a visible lack of effort from some players and a lack of confidence all over. The players realise that ETH’s position is under threat and see another opportunity to throw another manager under the bus.

Personally, I think that the new owners want a fresh start and have their own ideas about the type of person they want as a head coach. ETH is a deadman walking. He has made big mistakes in the transfer market and, like every manager when they fear the sack, he’s becoming more and more risk averse. But I don’t think anyone who has been watching United for the last decade can honestly think that this squad is not a bigger problem than the manager.


12.) 10 Mar 2024 21:08:10
It's all ANOTHER managers fault ?.


13.) 10 Mar 2024 21:17:35
Klopp has a clear pattern, way of playing, coaches the team to that, the Liverpool fans knew what he would do. Also you can see the bond he has with all his players.

It isn’t about getting on with players, but it is about getting them to play for you. ETH is reported as tough to get on with, but it depends what that means. His utterings about Antony being unplayable, continuing to play Rashford regardless, allowing Bruno to behave the way he does, to give the ball away, yet be first choice no matter what, will not be lost on the other players.

It’s not just Klopp though is it, Pep implemented a style they knew was coming, Postecoglu at Spurs.

We sit here saying give them 5 years, every one of them yet none of us know if that will be successful, we just think because SAF was, it will work for ETH.

I think ETH needs to show some coaching skills, coordinated team play, stop talking nonsense about Antony, wake up about Bruno and Rashford, play some decent football, sell his plan to those in charge fast because, that yesterday was very poor, he looks on borrowed time.


14.) 10 Mar 2024 21:19:51
Comparing Liverpool and klopp to us and ETH is laughable!


15.) 10 Mar 2024 21:22:23
Tumble, liverpool brought in 3 or 4 top players to rebuild the 3 midfield positions. They moved on the older and less skilled players to build a team fit to challenge for the title. A year ago they moved on the aging players that had been good, but would not take them forward any further.

Mane, bobby, hendo and co all left and new fresh players were brought in for the managers style.

We still have Martial, steeling 250k a week. Mctominay and McGuire were identified as players to move on so that EtH could build such a squad. But we failed to move them on.

We have also made rashford a brand, we have sancho and Greenwood who for different reasons are playable and can't be sold.

When barrada and dir football are in place I suspect that we will slowly see these mistakes dealt with. But no doubt it has been a big mess caused by the club and not EtH. Yes, eth want anthony and he has not yet been able to make the step up, but plenty of managers including Pep, klopp and arteta have made expensive mistakes signing players.

We are a patched up patchwork midtable team and 6th is about right for where we sit. If we had a full strength team all year I suspect we would be 4th. Still amazes me how little media attention is paid to Chelsea and Newcastle, almost like the media has an agenda against utd ?.


16.) 10 Mar 2024 21:36:45
Very few weeks we are not fielding 8, 9 or 10 internationals.
In todays game given 6 months with either coach
Switch elliot for garnacho
Rashford for Alves
Casimero for endo or
Mainoo for endo
Varane for x (sorry I forget young Liverpool cb name)
Dalot for (Bradley who was great) .
Rasmus for nunez
Shaw for aki.
Given 6 months with either pep or klopp those players would fit in and in most cases not improve but would fit in seamlessly into those teams imo.
Before anyone gets excited I'm not saying we have better players but that any of those players switched they would look much better under those coaches.
We see it at international level on occasions.
It's not all eth's fault but we have good players he is not improving and not getting the best out of.
No matter who is injured or fit its pretty dull and miles off the energy levels and pace of play that entertains.
We do not look remotely like a team that has any sort of identity, and if there is one I certainly don't recognise or identify with it.


17.) 10 Mar 2024 22:20:02
Not a good post at all Ken, BRD ?‍♂️

Repetitive, uneducated, ironic nonsense is what I would call it.

Klopp is a great manager at a huge club who have (for the most part) largely backed him.

We’ve been here before, several times in the past 10 years. Our fans come across as incredibly spoilt with a sense of entitlement. The most moronic of the bunch seem to think that our manager should be some sort of miracle worker who can get a 36 year old Johnny Evans, along with a squad of players who the same people slate every single day, challenging for the title. The same people (alt accounts n’all) are unable to see their own irony, going on and on and on about it every single day.

ETH did unbelievably well in his first season. Taking us from 6th, to a league cup win, an FA cup final, a European semi final, and champions league football. Not one person on here predicted that would happen after ETH took over from Rangnick.

And now, yet another manager is struggling in his 2nd season, one that has been riddled with off field controversy and long-term injuries to key players, and once again we have the same people going on (and on and on and on) about it.


18.) 11 Mar 2024 00:08:00
Totally agree Wazza, It does seem that that there are those who only seem to have a sense of purpose from endlessly repeating the same old thing regardless of it's truth or otherwise.

ETH may well have a direct way of dealing with the players (fully deserved for most of them) but let's not forget when he was hired he was told restoring discipline and standards was a priority.

He also asked the question, what happens when a bad spell of form follows improvement, is that going to result in the sack? He seemingly was assured of support. Let's not forget the major issues he has had to deal with since arrival have been inherited from previous regimes.

The injury factors are also very relevant as in particular we have suffered more in defence than anywhere else. Yesterday was the sixth time Varane and Evans started together and that is the highest number of starts for any partnership this season. Add to that the issue with full backs, how many time has Shaw played? and this tells a major story as to to why inconsistency has been such an issue.


19.) 11 Mar 2024 00:49:03
The guy in CM for Liverpool was recommended to us 2 years ago by Rangnick, as per Ed002. Szob looks a player but we decided Ralf had no idea what he was doing and ignored him.


20.) 11 Mar 2024 01:13:01
Expect it all to be fixed within 18 mi this, it really is incredible. This is a total rebuild. Any steps we take to try and patch up a leaky ship will only delay how long until we are successful. Liverpool only got back after truely realizing that they needed to fully commit to rebuild. Last piece was coutinho. He was a good player, but not what klopp needed.

We have 2 major problems.

The defenders can't play high line and squeeze up the pitch. This is creating huge gaps.

Bruno and rashford can't play a possession based attack. They are better suited to a deep lying teM that play in the break. the ga. e of bottom half clubs.

Until we fix this we will not play a style of play that can compete, unless we park the bud and hit on the break. And ole got slaughtered for doing that.

We are what we are. Tine to turn the page.


21.) 11 Mar 2024 05:07:17
This thread just takes the cake and shows a lack of understanding to the amount of work that Liverpool (and Klopp) put in to make the team into what it is today. It was not an overnight process and required support and vision from the people above. We have revamped Anfield, built a new state of the art training facility where the youth team and the first team trains at, and have supported the manager through whatever process he saw fit. Everyone involved was working towards a common goal and had a shared vision.

The people at your club feels like they are either protecting or furthering their own interest rather than that of the club. It just feels like multiple people pulling in different directions instead of everyone working towards a common vision of where the club should be at. It boggles my mind that Martial, a player bought by LVG, is still somehow at the club despite all managers after deeming him surplus to requirements. Last summer, we saw the same thing happening to Maguire and Mctominay as well. Players that the manager wants rid of but is unable. Compare this to Klopp who had the support of the entire club to tear the whole team apart and rebuild it as he saw fit.

I'm not saying that EtH is a good manager nor that he should stay. But the culture around your club now is toxic to say the least and if that is not changed, no manager that comes in would be able to succeed.


22.) 11 Mar 2024 07:37:55
I have no intention of becoming involved in a conversation with people who cannot see that this group of players, in the main, are a bunch of overpaid whining kids who are to blame for the sacking of several managers. Add that to the incompetent hierarchy and where to direct blame becomes obvious.


23.) 11 Mar 2024 08:33:35
Agree with many of the comments above that basically provides a true picture of the status of the team and structure over the past decade at MU.
Unfortunately one major issue that has limited squad revamp after so many changes in managers and coaching staff is salaries compared to other teams.
MU even have to subsidize salaries if the player goes out on loan!
Unlike Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool it’s much more difficult to move failed players on because of the stupid high salaries and long contracts MU have handed out to players.
How many of us would move to another company for half the salary if you have a long term contract especially if you are at the end of your career?
Obviously this problem has been caused by the structure behind the manager and some poor selection of players transferred in.
Let’s have patience and hope the new structure over the next few seasons will sort this issue even if means buying some contracts to clear the decks.


24.) 11 Mar 2024 08:53:27
The only comparison we can use between ourselves and Liverpool/ the top 3 teams is as a barometer for how far we need to go to compete consistently.
The problem we have is top to bottom with everyone being part of the problem, the question will be how many will be allowed to be part of the solution.
Owners - Awful leadership for the entire time. Hopefully we are seeing a change in this whether the Glazers remain or not. This will take time.
Manager - attempting to set a culture and clearing out problem players. Unfortunately seems to be hard to get on with and has not evolved the play as we had expected.
Players - injuries all over the place, players brought in from multiple managers and playing styles, attitude problems virtually across the board. Some signs of promise but needs a massive overhaul and will take time.
Fans - We are not innocent in all of this. We can be impatient, as has been said on here many times we can be toxic. However, what a fan group if we can see progression and a real pathway.
Lets hope we are on the path to enjoyable football, a playing identity and ultimately success.


 

 

13 Jan 2024 16:27:31
Reading fans showing us how it’s done.

BadRedDevil

1.) 13 Jan 2024 21:17:51
That must surely depend on what it is they're reading.


2.) 13 Jan 2024 23:19:52
Classic dad joke. Love it!


 

 

24 Dec 2023 21:08:33
So we now have a situation where the more successful INEOS is on the pitch the more likely the Glazers are to hang around longer. The ultimate conundrum for many supporters.

BadRedDevil

1.) 24 Dec 2023 22:51:50
Not really, if you are a true supporter then all you should care about is the long term success of your club, who owns it or gets richer off the back of owning it really shouldn't be of any concern to supporters of the club.

I'd rather not see Glazer ownership, but what I WANT to see is good football, played with attacking verve, trust in youth, and success on the pitch.

I think too many fans are far too focused on many aspects that should not really be of concern to us. Ultimately the only reason they are is due to a lack of success on the pitch.


2.) 24 Dec 2023 22:53:41
Who would have seen that coming!


3.) 25 Dec 2023 00:00:23
Spot on Shappy . Some people seems to hate Glazers even more than they love United . As far as we see improvement on football facilities etc I don’t care if Glazers make more money.


4.) 25 Dec 2023 02:28:36
BRD

The Glazers and their respective networks will always make money, that's the legacy of Malcolm.
Manchester United sits within the collective business portfolio of the broad network and is therefore a means to make more money.

The 2 main problems at United under the Glazers are the debt and sporting mismanagement.
I don't believe for a second that Joel and Avram were the only two siblings interested in remaining, nor do I believe that any of them are in touch with reality.

The only way the debt would be removed was offered by Jassim, but he didn't offer them enough so that simply wasn't an option.
Sir Jim was never going to push for a full buyout, but offered more flexibility which appealed to their greed.
So really, of the 2 main problems at the club, only 1 was at all possible.

The 25% stake is not the ideal outcome any of us wanted, but it does come with a commitment to sporting endeavour from a group with far greater credibility than the mugs we've had to suffer for so long.

This has, so far, been a season where good news and vibes have been in very short supply, I'll take this positive news for what it is - the potential of seeing fortunes improve.

{Ed001's Note - just to point out, from what I have been told regarding the siblings, only Joel and Avram have any interest in keeping the club. That has been part of the issue with the sale. They never wanted to sell, the rest wanted rid. One of them, I can't remember which one off the top of my head right now, was the one who was the actual mover behind the Glazers buying the club in the first place. It was not Malcolm who wanted to get involved, it was those two kids who wanted to buy into a Premier League club. One of them did the research and put together the deal, but the other was very much his ally in the whole process. They have never wanted to sell, but obviously they were outnumbered in a family vote to end up with the club up for sale.}


5.) 25 Dec 2023 11:01:29
Minority and non-active members of essentially family businesses tend not to have the same agendas, and frequently want out. It gets even worse as holdings and power dissipate down the generations.


6.) 25 Dec 2023 15:11:01
We all would want the Glazers gone, however as pointed out and referenced by Ed that in hindsight looks like it was never an option and likely why the Qatar bid was unsuccessful.
In light of that we have to look at this deal as better than what we had. What we need to see over the coming months is what happens with the board, hierarchy of the top with change at sporting director etc. would Also like them to comment on the debt and if that is being addressed as well as future dividends. If there is a plan to stop the club hemorrhaging money that is a start.
Comment on the infrastructure and how the club intend to move forward with the ground improvements.


7.) 25 Dec 2023 16:55:43
I’m not for one minute suggesting we continue to be unsuccessful to get rid of the Glazers. But, tne prospect of ‘them’ continuing to draw dividends and live the high life of a United Exec sickens me.


8.) 25 Dec 2023 20:09:00
With the right CEO and DoF in place United are more than big enough to be a club who can challenge for titles, whilst bringing though youngsters and playing an attractive brand of football.

The ownership structure for me is far less important than who they bring in to run the the whole show on their behalf. That is why with this move I have hope. Hope that Sir Jim will bring the right people in and that under Ineos this club will move forward to being what I hope it will again.

I understand why people want the Glazers gone, I don't think many people if any actively want them, my biggest problem wasn't the LBO or the dividends, I just think that under their ownership United have been very poorly run and they as owners should have demanded change a lot quicker and put in place a system that ensured United were better run.

That being said, Sir Jim appears to make changes I have wanted for years and if he gets them tight I believe there is a clear way forward for United and for that I will support him.

Not everyone will, but I think he is the best chance we have had since Fergie to actually turn this around.


9.) 26 Dec 2023 18:04:58
Ed001 i remember you have previously said it was Joel.

All investment by Ratcliffe will be in exchange for new shares that's how it works, so if he invests £300m and it gets approved, more class B and A shares will become available to him, so he could buy his way to a majority that way.


 

 

21 Dec 2023 19:07:07
The A22 presentation was a nauseatingly disgusting revenue pitch to couldn’t care less about football club owners:

“Let’s create a streaming platform free to viewers (nothing about match going fans) to attract advertisers. ”! Supporters are the product. Not football. No different to your Facebook timeline.

Still a load of crap. Glazers will love it. It’s still much closer to US franchised sport. The top clubs will be safe every season. Still doesn’t explain in detail how our precious football pyramid is preserved. Still doesn’t have the sporting jeopardy of the original knock-out only European Cup. I hope our up and coming football regulator and football fans do what’s needed. Trash this crap.

I miss the days of sheepskin coat chairman smoking cigars and driving around in jags. Football was dodgy, but honest. Pitches weren’t perfect. Neither were the now sanitised tackles. No VAR. No online bookies. Half time scores. A bit rough and ready, but 3pm on a Saturday meant something. The ESL is just another backwards engineered by progress.

BadRedDevil

1.) 21 Dec 2023 19:58:46
You missed jumpers for goal posts.


2.) 21 Dec 2023 22:31:56
@Dodgy ??.


3.) 22 Dec 2023 15:08:49
Boy bad. exactly how I feel. Couldn't agree more.


4.) 22 Dec 2023 18:36:52
Cuppa at half time Dodgy, last man back goalie, is that your mum calling you for tea, ooh halcyon days.


 

 

30 Nov 2023 07:55:43
Bedding a new goalkeeper in is never easy. It can take months. Indeed De Gea was woeful at the beginning. Weak on crosses and couldn’t command his area - if indeed he ever did.

I have sympathy for Onana. He’s playing behind a poor defence in a team that on the whole has been poor. We all know goalkeeping errors are spotlighted more because of the impact. Ridiculous to suggest change.

The goalkeeper I saw at Inter last season is still there. The clamour for us to sign him was there. How fickle just because he’s hit some poor form. Class is permanent etc. He needs time and for the team as a unit to improve too. Both will happen. I’ve seen enough to believe he is far from our biggest issue.

BadRedDevil

1.) 30 Nov 2023 08:28:36
I have absolutely no sympathy for him. He is a Champions League finalist previously played for top European teams. This isn't about bedding in, this is about sheer ability.

The mistakes aren't due to bedding in, they are simply bad goalkeeping - end of. He is not making up for it with his distribution, which was allegedly the best in the world and I would dare say his pass completion probably isn't much better than De Geas.

The simple point is this - if we kept De Gea we would be in the last 16 of the Champions League.


2.) 30 Nov 2023 08:38:35
Onana is a good goalkeeper and has atributes that a lot of goalkeepers do not have. A couple of points though
1. Are we playing the right way to utilise these additional attributes of being a sweeper keeper/ playing out from the back
2. His fundamentals seem flawed. So many times this year he has let in a ball that has been close to him by either making the wrong assumption of where it is going or not having his feet position correct.
The second free kick last night should have been the easier one, the only player making a header was Martial so his assumption should be he will miss it or it will be headed behind. To miss judge that trajectory for me is a problem. he could have even gone with both hands to save it due ro to there actually being less danger.
Hopefully he will come good but needs to be working on the training ground. Whether we see Bayinder at some point if he goes of to the AFCON will be interesting.


3.) 30 Nov 2023 09:03:03
To say that last night's keepers' errors had anything to do with playing behind a weak defence is delusional. All three goals were down to poor keeping and cannot be seen as anything else. I am not suggesting we get rid but we need to be realistic about last night.


4.) 30 Nov 2023 09:28:28
I do worry about his basics. He got praised by the commentators for a decent save against Everton. But none of them pointed out that he parried it back into the goalmouth area, rather than away from goal, necessitating a follow-up block. There's obviously a decent keeper there, and his distribution when he gets the chance, is far superior to Dave's, but Fergie took Dave out for awhile at the start, and he came back stronger. Onana strikes me as the kind of character who would see being dropped for a few games as a challenge, so might be for the best.


5.) 30 Nov 2023 09:39:07
@Fizz. No need to make it personal. I'm not delusional. I'm a realist.

And by the way. It does have an effect. Your entire environment (at home and work) has an impact on your confidence and (peak) performance level. I worked for many years as a performance coach in sport and business having also studied the subject to Masters level. I have a great deal of insight into what impacts performance, both physical and mental. Many performance issues are reduced to the simplest of variables that could never reflect the actual cause/ effect (in this case poor saves) .

Would you let a doctor perform surgery on you if you knew he was going through a tough divorce? Would you expect to get the best from a footballer who is being accused of assault? Where do you draw the line on the influence of external factors?

I'm not trying to manufacture an argument to support Onana. I have no skin in the game. I just have sympathy for his circumstances. Swap him for Ederson at City and you wouldn't spot the difference. Clear example of how environment impacts performance.


6.) 30 Nov 2023 09:47:58
BadRedDevil
LMAO but who is being personal? I responded to your post. You might not agree with me over a single word in that post but it is what it is and I have no need for your CV.
Have a grand day.


7.) 30 Nov 2023 09:51:28
The keeper had a bad night but while Scott mctominay is in midfield offering nothing in build up or defence we haven't a sniff.

Bruno makes 2 fouls he's supposed to be the attacking player but he's the one who's had to get back because he knows Scott won't.

Mctominay left amrabat and mainoo on their own time and time again allowed them to get straight in at our defence and tackles were made so we could get organised, mctominay is not offering anywhere near enough going forward for what he's costing us in at the back/ in control of the ball.

The goalkeeper on, first goal he's tried to guess where the shots going I can forgive that one, the second was literally right at him, I know martial was running across it but he has to save it. And for the last one his positioning is awful to get beat at the near post like that. He's shown he can do it but he's making very basic errors and showing that some very basic things are issues let's hope he can fix them and quick.


8.) 30 Nov 2023 09:51:51
Errors from direct free kicks can't be put down to the defensive structure, Onana has cost us badly in the champions league.

The playing out from the back struggle is clearly because Martinez and Shaw have been injured, far and away our best technical players which is fair enough in my opinion.


9.) 30 Nov 2023 10:09:20
It doesn't take time for a top professional goalkeeper to make that save. Straight at him. I would have save it myself.


10.) 30 Nov 2023 10:27:34
He's single-handedly cost us half a dozen points in a group that we should definitely have finished at least second in. We all cried for a revolutionary new GK to play with his feet and whilst he's made a few decent saves he's also dropped more than a share of howlers and hasn't transformed anything just yet. We'll never know the full DdG story but I'm sure we'd be going into next week with a great chance of qualifying with him in goal.
But as it stands we still have a chance. He can only improve.


11.) 30 Nov 2023 10:45:36
Sadly a lot of people are easily led by a media narrative.

If you read the press then the only goalkeeper having a poor season is the guy between the sticks for Manchester United. It doesn't matter who that is by the way.

Arsenal's goalkeeping situation is a mess, and one entirely created by Arteta.

It's easy to pick out isolated moments to highlight something, but in doing so you also remove all the context around that situation.

It's like walking into a room as one person explodes and starts tearing into someone else. It might seem unreasonable, or that the person shouting is the aggressor or instigator. But you have no idea what happened before, you have no context.

Football highlights are exactly the same. You are looking at a tiny isolated incident without any context.

Has Onana made mistakes this season? Absolutely. Does that make him a bad keeper? Not really.

Firstly, all players make mistakes. Yet we need to look at the context to get a clearer idea about what is going on.

You could easily such clip up the 4-5 mistakes he has made this season, but that isn't representative of his ability. Imagine if someone did that for you. Just created a montage of every mistake you've made in your career and used that to judge your ability. Completely ignoring the circumstances around why those mistakes happened or all the really good things you've done.

For context around Onana. He currently has the highest save percentage in the EPL this season. He has also faced the 5th highest amount of shots.

What does that tell us? Well it tells us that he is playing behind a very leaky defence that is forcing him into making more saves than he should. Yet he is saving a higher amount of those shots than any other keeper in the league. If we make mistakes 5% of the time, then we will make a mistake once in every 20 times we do something. Therefore, the guy asked to do the task 20 times has once mistakes, whereas the guy asked to do it 100 times makes 5 mistakes. Does that make him worse at his job than the guy who only made the one mistake?

There are several factors as to why our defence is so leaky and Onana being a new keeper is certainly a factor in that. Yet the biggest and most obvious issue is the injuries. We all know that defending is done as a unit, that knowing eachothers game and working together is the key to good defending. Which we also know is pretty much impossible to get in a constantly changing defensive line up. Until we get some consistency in team selection in defence it will be impossible to gain some consistency in performances.

Onana despite facing a huge number of shots (only the keepers at the promoted clubs and Fulham have faced more shots), he has the highest save percentage and the joint most clean sheets in the league. So he clearly isn't a bad shot stopper, in fact he's actually one of the best in the league.

For those saying DDG would have been better, well Onana has a higher save percentage this season than DDG had last season. While if you look at errors leading to a goal, and you average that out against shots faced then DDG made more mistakes leading to a goal last season than Onana currently has this season. Which suggests that if DDG was still here and playing behind this defence and facing the number of shots that Onana has that he would have made MORE errors leading to a goal than the Cameroonian.

Then we have those decrying that Onana was signed for his ball playing ability and that we aren't seeing that from him. Those people seem to have a very short memory. He did play out from the back when he first joined, but once Martinez and Shaw got injured playing out from the back became a liability. None of our other defenders have the technical skills to be press resistant. Meaning every time the keeper played out to them they were being pressed and losing the ball.

If your side will lose the ball everytime your keeper plays out then you might as well get your keeper to play long balls as at least you are losing possession of the ball 60-70 yards from your goal with most of your team behind the ball. As opposed to losing it 30 yards from goal with the majority of your team the wrong side of the ball to defend.

The reason Onana isn't playing out from the back has nothing to do with his ability, but the ability of the players he has to play a pass to.

Again its the context behind it that gives you insight rather than just looking at the surface level.

Onana is not a bad keeper, in fact he's a very good one. But he is trying to settle into a new team, in a new country, with a new culture, in a new league that has a very different style to what he has faced previously. All while that team is facing an injury crisis and playing very poorly.

It's easy to jump on the media led bandwagon, especially when you are feeling disappointed and frustrated. Just try and remember to gain some perspective and not just baa along with the sheep.


12.) 30 Nov 2023 10:59:14
Onana made two errors last night Shappy and cost two goals.
1 Look at how the wall was organised and then he stepped to his left, classic error.
2 Well it just went through him.

We should also look at who gave away two stupid free kicks in dangerous areas.

Onana has made mistakes and they have been costly ones. There will be questions about any keeper when that happens.


13.) 30 Nov 2023 11:01:32
Onana is making similar mistakes, shots low and close to him. Brentford, Bayern now Gala.

De gea came and made a lot of mistakes, but the difference is with de gea we signed potential as he was 19. Onana is 27. He’s not going to improve much more or develop new abilities. That’s the concern.


14.) 30 Nov 2023 11:12:15
Shappy

He has a technical flaw dealing with low shots. He is not a bad keeper and has his strengths but there is something not right with how he handles lower shots especially if they are close to him and not ones he can stretch for.

DDG made similar howlers funny enough and its an open invitation to get crucified by the fans and media because they make any goalie look very clumsy and incompetent.


15.) 30 Nov 2023 11:12:17
Shappy behave. Nothing to do with a media bandwagon. I watched the game. The keeper made 3 mega poor efforts that cost us 3 goals. I don't need media to tell me.
Last nights result is on him and there is getting away from that no matter how you write it.


16.) 30 Nov 2023 11:31:18
First goal was not just Onana's fault. The wall was poor. There should have been two defenders behind the two Gal players in the wall. The ball went straight through their space as they peeled away. Every player in that team (yes, inc Onana but not just him) should have prevented that. Lack of leadership.

The third goal was just a superb strike. How Onana can be criticised for that I have no clue. Nobody could name a goalkeeper who would definitely have saved that shot.

Usual over reaction from many United supporters. It's football. A player has hit a poor run of form. Get over it.


17.) 30 Nov 2023 11:48:24
Onana has made some absolute howlers, but that's a poor way to judge goalkeepers. A StatsBomb tweet last week said he's saved +8.6 goals beyond expected in the EPL this year, which is best in the league. He also did some really good things yesterday and his distribution is really excellent. Yesterday was bad but he has been solid, and he comes for crosses well which has helped us a lot. Unfortunately he has been facing far too many shots. We let through too many runs from deep. I'm holding off judgement on him until we actually have a settled side, but if people can't see positives in the guy I think that's misguided.


18.) 30 Nov 2023 12:21:53
He just doesn't look comfortable . His handling is atrcious as he often takes two efforts to grasp the ball and his distribution is not on point atm . Saying that last night we or should i say bruno gave 2 stupid freekicks away and let's be fair, their 3rd goal was a superb bit of shill from the player first touch and then he hit the shot both powerfully and early. We could have easily lost the game but we cannot defend a lead with this setup.


19.) 30 Nov 2023 13:27:13
Shappy we don't need a lecture every time someone wants to express something. I haven't read a single thing in the news or pored over your usual statistics. I just watch the games and make an opinion. He is at fault for a great deal of goals this season, and we'll likely be eliminated from CL due to a fair few of them. End of.


20.) 30 Nov 2023 13:46:21
People always want to look for blame or pick out an individual when the team loses, but it is a team game.

Galatasaray had 16 shots, 8 on target. Is that Onana's fault that the team in front of him have allowed that many shots on goal. Or the fact United had 17 shots with only 4 on target? Was it Onana's poor finishing that stopped us being out of sight and scoring the 5 or 6 goals we probably should have from he chances we created?

This is where the idea that "Onana cost us the game" falls flat on its face.

Did he have a good game? Absolutely not. Yet what people fail to realise is that the game when fairly similarly to how most of our games have gone this season. We have been wide open defensively and it is the fact that Onana has for the most part kept the score line down.

As pointed out above the xG model suggests he's saved over 8 goals more than he should have on average. He has the highest save percentage in the league saving 78% of the shots he faces on target. While only the Luton, Fulham, Sheffield United and Burnley goalkeepers have faced more shots.

Does he have a weakness for low shots close to his body? Yeah possibly, hard to say for sure on a relatively small sample size. But name me a player who doesn't have a weakness. For example I'd fancy my 14 year old nephew to win a header against Leo Messi, does that make Messi a bad player? Of course not, every player will have a weakness.

The issue with the possible one with Onana is that it was a particular strength of the keeper he has replaced. Meaning its not something we are accustomed to seeing at our club.

DDG has a very different build, he was much more wirery. Meaning he could quickly react and adjust to make those saves. Onana is much more muscular meaning he is less flexible and will be slower to react in close quarters.

However, Onana is far better in the air, better with the ball at his feet, a better communicator, and the stats would suggest that he is as good a shot stopper over all.

Last season in 38 games DDG had a 71.1% save percentage and made 99 saves in the EPL. This season after just 13 games Onana has made 51 saves and has a save percentage of 78.8%.

Which highlights how many more saves Onana is having to make, and that he is actually saving a higher percentage of those than DDG managed last season.

Onana is not a bad keeper, he's just an over worked one.


21.) 30 Nov 2023 14:45:19
BRD he set the wall up, then proceeded not to trust it. That’s poor. If it goes over the wall and in the corner; then no complaints.

The mistakes he’s making are bread and butter to the best keepers in the world.

Shappy- you can use stats to highlight any point, the eye test never ever fails. I don’t compare him to de gea, because de gea was poor the last two seasons. Onana hasn’t been a significant upgrade.


22.) 30 Nov 2023 15:24:02
The real issue with Onana is it seems like he left his glasses in Milan. Keepers can not make the mistakes he has this season without serious questioning. His price tag makes it much more of an issue. Hopefully he finds form soon.


23.) 30 Nov 2023 15:36:36
People are blaming Onana last night not because we want a scapegoat but b3cause he was at fault and it isn't the first time in the Champion league this year he has cost us points.

All keepers, even the very best will make a mistakes as in fact do all players. If United want to compete again for top hours however they can't have a keeper making so many.

I do think a new regime will look to replace him.


24.) 30 Nov 2023 17:45:47
Oakbark, I doubt they will. Honestly have a look around the EPL, which keepers do you think are categorically a better keeper than Onana. Not better at one thing specifically, but overall a better keeper?

For me the only one is Alisson. Who is probably the best keeper in the world right now. Would I take Pickford, Pope, Ramsdale, Raya, Ederson, Vicario or Emi Martinez over Onana?

Probably not, he's at least as good as all of them, probably better than most.

I've rewatched the goals from last night several times now. Anyone who thinks Onana is at fault for the third goal must equally think Muslera is at fault for both Bruno's and Garnacho's goals. Three of the 6 goals scored last night were hit into the top corners, keepers don't save those.

The second goal there is no denying that he was totally at fault for that. Yes it dipped, but he needs to be keeping that out.

The first goal I'd say he's partially at fault, but I wouldn't call it a glaring error. Yes he set the wall up, but the wall was in the right place. There is nothing wrong with where the wall was. The issue came with Bruno standing with his arms crossed next to the two Galatasaray players on the end of the wall. He should have been behind them stopping them from peeling off the wall. The only mistake that Onana makes is he takes a step to his left as the ball is struck, which means he can't sort his feet out quickly enough as the ball comes through the gap. However, this is something pretty much 90% of keepers do as the most likely place the shot will be going is over the wall towards the near post. So keepers will tend to gamble and start moving that way when the ball is struck so they have a chance of getting there if it does clear the wall.

I wouldn't call it a massive error and would in all honesty say Bruno's poor positioning and not standing behind or even tracking the players as they peeled away was the main issue. That space should never be allowed to open up like that.


25.) 30 Nov 2023 21:24:38
Stats whilst of some use, can also very misleading unless used in context. And can only be accurate with consistent measurable inputs. For example Maguire pass success rate is always high. Why? Because he passes it mainly sideways or backwards. Same for Lindlhof. That’s not a dig at them (on this occasion) . Do the same statistics oh his effective forward passes. Completely different outcome. Pass saves are very similar. How many were really saves? A lot are just weak shots resembling a back pass. I’m not saying this is the case with Onana. Just making a point. But do the statistics with those removed and see how those numbers compare to other keepers.

1. Fact is that statistics can be skewed to win an argument by selective data samples.

2. Fact is that Onana has made a lot of gaffs this year and cost us vital goals and essential points. That cannot be argued to death. At 27 he should not be making these mistakes.

I’m not calling for his head. Far from it. But you cannot defend his shortcomings, more hope he filters them out of his game especially with a better defence in front of him.


26.) 30 Nov 2023 22:31:16
Following on the topic from this thread then that onana has single handedly cost us our champ league status, if he hadn’t of saved that penalty we’d of been out before last night? ??‍♂️ then whose fault is it if we’re constructing our usual pile ons after any game we don’t win!


27.) 01 Dec 2023 05:25:45
Chris

WE are doing the usual thing about a player when things don't go our way no doubt about that. However you can't argue he has cost us two win vs gala. At home his loose pass got cas sent off and we went from winning a game to losing one and then away yesterday that was really poor. The second goal was a lifeline for them.

One can have a debate about how we handle setbacks and how we could have still won the game given the chances we had.

He is going to have intense scrutiny going forward and fans will pile on including media and pundits and its his own doing tbh as he has made a few gafs.


28.) 01 Dec 2023 06:57:29
Yes he cost us a goal last night and at home was guilty for the red
Against Copenhagen at home he saved the blushes of our forwards and mctom by saving that pen and ultimately kept us in champions league? This is my point, you can’t just pile on players for big mistakes and forget the big moments before? If he doesn’t save that penalty gala away is a dead rubber!? Margins and details people chose to ignore when going in on one of our players!
A down grade on ddg I’ve read …
Ddg last season alone without even thinking cost us the fa cup final, our Europa run and nearly blew top four at West Ham! It happens
This guy like our other new signings need support, Mount is another who has become the go to guy to slaughter!
You need big shoulders to play at united and I’m sure these guys will prove it!


29.) 01 Dec 2023 07:51:14
2nd best goalkeeper in league what are you on! That’s laughable at best.


 

 

 

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30 Oct 2023 13:58:59
@ Keefy post of the day.

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08 Jul 2023 07:42:04
One of your favourite players of all time. Jeez.

Just don’t get this DDG love in. Above average goalkeeper who won many personal awards because he was in a below average United side. Poor at crosses and commanding area. Always had a mistake in him. Last season helped knock us out of Europa and awful in Cup Final. Tried to move on numerous occasions. Payed way above what he was worth. Nowhere near the standard of Edwin (please get better soon) or Schmikes.

Regardless of how his departure has been handled (think about NHS staff and teachers for some perspective) it’s no worse than Keane or RVN who made far greater contributions to the club.

Personally swapping him for Onana will be best bit of business this summer for me.

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18 Aug 2022 02:34:55
Everything has a price!

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18 Jun 2022 07:16:33
@Eric79 the time to judge is when pre-season starts, not the start of the season. That date is beginning to loom large.

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07 May 2022 19:57:02
Ahem. Jerry Jones.

I think Dallas Cowboys fans would argue very strongly about how owners do get too involved with team matters!

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17 Mar 2024 19:58:24
Law of averages says ETH must get something right one in a while!

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10 Mar 2024 18:51:45
@danny when did I compare situations? I compared the person. Your post shows a staggering lack of ability to read.

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29 Feb 2024 23:08:26
Turned down life changing money to earn £300k a week! You have to be kidding me. If he really said this.

WOW!

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25 Feb 2024 01:44:34
Thanks Ed. Good read.

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{Ed001's Note - thank you BRD.}


 

 

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Utd Road lol. 6 months of Fallout 4 sounds a dream.

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