10 Feb 2014 11:03:27
I've defended Moyes time and time again this season. Saying he needs time and will come good. I have to admit if he got the boot now I wouldn't shed any tears and would be a tad relieved. Tactically he doesn't seem to have a clue, and it is difficult watching us play at the moment. Does anybody truly believe he is the man to take us forward and win lots of trophies? I'm wanting to believe that but if I'm totally honest I don't.
He does deserve 2 years and time to get his own players in and I do feel sorry for him because a lot of what he was left wasn't good enough and had over achieved but I think if it gets to next christmas and we still aren't seeing any signs of improvement then he will be gone.
I could cope with some bad seasons and no silverware if it felt like we were heading somewhere and building for the future but at the moment does our future look good?
Suppose time will tell.

1.) 10 Feb 2014
Why not try mata behind rvp with kagawa and janusai as the wingers look at fulham wingers crossing for nobody you can't play mata on the wing what a waste play one twos round the box you spend the money on mata put rooney on the bench just make a decision if rooney dosnt like it tough luck your the manager show it and good things will happen just believe a bit inyourself

2.) 10 Feb 2014
He has to try a new formation. 4-2-3-1.
We have the players who could make that work, playing mata on the wing is as silly as. well playing kagawa on the wing. Ditch the wingers it isn't working.
When he signed mata it looked like that is what he would do but no. We have no plan b at all, and plan a is pretty crap at the moment.

3.) 10 Feb 2014
In my opinion Kagawa could be better than Mata, if given a decent chance.
I would play Kagawa behind RVP, get Rooney to play alongside Carrick and have Januzaj and Valencia on the wings

4.) 10 Feb 2014
Good luck with playing those 1-2's around the box, when there's 11 opposition players camped narrowly in that area.

5.) 10 Feb 2014
StevieK, it doesn't seem to bother teams like City and Liverpool, who often come up against two banks of 4 sitting deep. They just cut through them like a knife through butter, with fast, incisive, accurate passing - to feet.

6.) 10 Feb 2014
Why drop Rooney? No one really plays with out and out wingers anymore that's old school now.

width from ful backs, both JM and WR can push out wid when needed, but we should play through te midfield now and not down the wings as our wingerscouldt cross he rd safely never mind the ball.

The we have got AJ, DW, SK and TC to come on plus the likesof Lingard/powell/keane/henriquez to come through.

Dont get me wrong ideally we would have two top CM players in the summer but in the mean timetry this. Wy pay £64 million quid on two players then play them out of position? I can see Mata being the new Kagawa so what was the point in signing him to play him out wide. Moyes is inept and clueless and now starting to feel the pressure as tat silly celebration showed after the 2nd goal. Average manager never won a thing as a player or a manager so how does he know to win things when he never has.
Ive said it from day1 budget manager appealed to glazernomics just ain't good enough, also said out of all comps by easter an he'd be sacked, Hopefully I dead wrong and he does prove himself but it doesn't look that way yet.

7.) 10 Feb 2014
10 Feb 2014 12:48:35
Re steviek
Barca have been playing 1-2 against 11 (better players than Fulham's) for many a year without looking for pitiful excuses when it goes wrong. and bizarrely Fulham scored twice against us and should have had a third so hardly parked the proverbial bus all the game. too many make excuses for poor tactics from a poor manager who is responsible for improving the players and sadly who have all regressed under his stewardship (and not all the players are old)
Something is fundamentally wrong and ignoring it and thinking bringing new players in will resolve the problems is madness. it is possible that we made a mistake and appointed the wrong manager and coaches. just because its Manchester United does not mean we have not got this horribly wrong

8.) 10 Feb 2014
Can we please stop saying things like 'the squad he left wasn't good enough' - that is utter BS. he took over a title winning squad, spent 65 million pounds and a wonder kid broke into the first team. We should be challenging for the title. We should expect no less.

9.) 10 Feb 2014
StevieK

Silly excuse. We are certainly not the first team that plays against a team like that.

Well, we can always but Carroll and Crouch, then the excuse will vanish.

10.) 10 Feb 2014
"Will Red" understand your view but want Manchester United to give DM a fair chance, as I would with any other manager. DM's limitation may be his tactics but SAF wasn't the best at this either and hence why he employed McClaren, Quiroz and Meleunsteen to do the bit on tactical play. Its hard to see where that is within DM's current staff. However the reports on DM are that he is a tough cookie but also a listener and so perhaps he will put this right within his team in the summer. He did ask Meleunsteen to stay on when he took over. So we have to wait and see.

I agree with the call for utd to play a 4-2-3-1 formation. Yesterday it wasn't a strict 4-4-2 as Mata kept appearing in the centre and LHS in the first half. Hwever to play 4-2-3-1 yo need to have the right players and although in Zanuzaj, Mata, Rooney and RVP we have the players for that part we simply don't have the players in CM or in the full back positions to be successfull in this or any other formation. If you play 4-2-3-1 then your full backs need to play like deep wingers and also defend. Evra goes up all the time but his final ball is poor and now he doesn't have the legs to get back. We need a fast, dynamic CM player who can protect the back four properly and move the ball forward. We don't have anyone like that full stop.

Yesterday there were 60 crosses put into the Fulham box! so we tried to get around the outside but often the delivery was poor or the final execution off target. When we tried to play through the middle of Fulham it was crouded out as there was no space, so were the tactice really that wrong? If we had a real CM powerhouse then that player could of drove at the Fulham 9 man back lineon the edge of their box and disrupted their shape. That may of lead to the holesappearing for Mata, Rooney and RVP to exploit.

Rooney and RVP are both still a little bit short of match fitness and it showed yesterday as their touch and sharpness wasn't as good as we normally expect. This added to the fact that as a team we defended poory mean't that e did not win the game.

We can debate, moan and argue about frmations and tactics but it doesn't really mean a lot when we simply do not have players or the right qualiy in certain positions.

11.) 10 Feb 2014
Hoggy
I agree with a lot of what you said. 4-2-3-1 does need better cm and fullbacks than we currently have to work really well. But even with what we have now is it not worth a shot, try something different as what we are doing isn't working. Jones could play in the midfield 2 until the summer when he will replace vidic in defence.
I am not screaming for moyes to get the sack and am fully behind him at the games, but I am starting to question more and more things that I am seeing. I hope he gets the right players in and starts to turn the corner and brings us more success, I would love that to happen.
If I am totally honest though I am not convinced he will do that, and am not totally convinced he truly believes he can do that. I am normally an optimistic fan, I was brought up supporting Manchester United in the 80s when we never really challenged for the league and just won the odd cup. I don't want us to fall back to that. Its not that I don't want to give him a chance and like I said he does deserve 2 years, but I am just saying it as I see it at the moment, its up to him to convince me and other fans that he can make it at United. Up to now though he hasn't and with each bad result and poor performance it is getting harder and harder for him to do that.

12.) 10 Feb 2014
Zanuzaj?

Is this some Zaha/Januzaj hybrid?

If so, get him on the pitch!

13.) 10 Feb 2014
Ajs71

If you think barca and us are the same and we should be able to play their brand of football and fulham did not defend like I have ever seen before then you are definitely on another wavelength.

BTW for all you tactical geniuses if there was one criticism of Barca it is they have no width and struggle with teams who pack the middle of the pitch and it has probably cost them 2 CL trophies.

14.) 10 Feb 2014
He must be very good.

15.) 10 Feb 2014
Sam, we don't have players capable of playing this quick, incisive passing, unfortunately. I wish we had. Even if we did, they'd be pushed to have got through that yesterday. Abit more accuracy and variation in our crossing would have helped.

Ajs, Barcelona have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta to play that type of game. Are you seriously comparing our creative players to those three?

Silly comparison.

16.) 10 Feb 2014
GCU

Yeah the Barca way of football is flawed sure what have they won?

What absolute pitiful excuses you and the likes of Stevie k are coming out with. Ye are obviously the tactical geniuses and Pep and the like are clueless.
You must think if we just kept crossing the ball a few more times surely it would have fallen to someone. don't forget Fulham were playing with possibly the tallest defender in the EPL and Stoke the week before are giants yet our tactics are keep crossing. unreal.

17.) 10 Feb 2014
Devil don't be silly now. No-one is saying that we should just cross and cross and cross.

But when a team line up narrowly like Fulham, and you don't have Messi, Iniesta and Xavi pulling the strings, then using the width available is the percentage call.

A bit of variety too in the crossing would have helped - it doesn't matter if you're 8ft tall, you're going to find it difficult to cope with low, accurate drilled crosses.

Unfortunately, quick, accurate, incisive passing through the middle is not something our players, or most of them, are capable of doing at this moment.

And you need to be careful with that sarcasm on here. There's no room on this site for sarky little digs at fellow posters.

18.) 10 Feb 2014
Yeah everybody, leave Moyes alone. It's all and good to play through the middle with players like Xavi, Iniesta and Messi. But you try stringing more than two passes together when all you have is Mata, Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj. If we has one single player capable of threading a through-ball, do you not think Moyes would try it?

19.) 10 Feb 2014
Stevie

The problem is we DO have the players to play quick incisive football.

Mata Rooney and Adnan would absolutely thrive on that kind of football.

{Ed004's Note - Kagawa, Hernandez (running onto through balls), RVP played that way at Arsenal and even Cleverley.}|

20.) 10 Feb 2014
Devil, I still think those players would have struggled to pass through that team yesterday. That's just my opinion.

I too yearn for the future of 4231, and quick interchangeable, attacking players.

But just like any tactic, you have to adapt sometimes to the challenge put in front of you.

Ah, Danny, nice to see you back. Care in the Community day release, today?

21.) 10 Feb 2014
Completely agree Ed. infact if anything the players we have Cleverly included would be much more suited to that kind of football.

22.) 10 Feb 2014
Devil Dust

Don't talk nonsense and read what I posted before you sprout and dribble. Barca can play that way because they have probably the greatest 2 midfielders to grace a pitch with an outstanding cast around them and one of the greatest players the game has ever seen. In general incredible touch and control.

You are deluded if you suddenly think our lot can pass it around like Barca most of our boys need 2 or 3 touches and then look for a pass, but if it makes you feel better keep thinking that.

23.) 10 Feb 2014
Mata Rooney Adnan and Rvp need 2-3 touches before looking for a pass?

They do not need to play exactly like Barca but they can certainly play decent one touch football if they are let.

You are deluded if you think they should just keep doing what they are at the moment.

24.) 10 Feb 2014
Stevie I know why you mock me. While you yearn for a new quick and interchangeable future, I have faith in the teachings of Saint David, and my faith frightens you.

People think that wing play made by Manchester United managers and players. But they are wrong, so sayeth Saint David. And Saint David said unto the gathered media. "Why dost thou think that the players chooseth to run thine wing and crosseth into younder box? Dost thou not know that it is in the club's genes? That the players are compelled to cross by the Gods of the wing. Taketh the cherub Juan Matta. He playeth through the middle for years and, yet, as soon as he graced the hallowed Old Trafford pitch, he was drawn to the wing like the sweet song of a siren. He trieth to fight the call, but in vain. Manchester United players must crosseth and recycle it and crosseth again."

Now some people think that Saint David is wrong. That we sacrifice cross after to cross to the wing Gods but it is all in vain. But it is those critics who are wrong. The wing Gods are testing Saint David, and if he continues to deliver cross after cross after cross without reward and keeps his faith, they will reward him. Because he is the chosen one and will lead us, once again, into the promised land of Champions League football, in two years or maybe three.

25.) 10 Feb 2014
The problems, as I see it, were threefold. I agree that our best option was to attack from wide, but the slow, laboured build up before we went wide plus the delay in getting crosses in was totally ineffective. This allowed Fulham to regroup and get organized every time.

Secondly, a bit of variety in the crosses was needed - would have been nice to see a few low hard balls whipped in with pace. Far better suited to our strikers.

Thirdly, we didn't even try break them down through the middle. Had we at least have tried this a few times it might have stopped them double-teaming on our wingers.

What was so frustrating was that we didn't even try do anything even remotely different. Simply more of the same. Story of our season, I'm afraid.

26.) 10 Feb 2014
10 Feb 2014 18:34:34
GCU and StevieK
i never compared us to barca. I said barca have overcome 11 defenders week in week out and manage to find a way to win. my tactical genius is as limited as yours having never managed in the premiership but yes I would prefer we tried to play the barca way than the stoke way you and mr moyes continue to advocate. we are being compared to a conference side now under mr moyes, give me peps philosophy any day of the week. u both say we don't have the players to play the barca way well are u saying we have the players for our current style of play? If so why can we not beat Fulham, Stoke, West Brom etc etc etc etc. please enlighten us non geniuses with your tactical acumen u clearly posess

27.) 10 Feb 2014
Devil Dust
how old are you may I ask.

28.) 10 Feb 2014
Devil, have you seen Rooney's first touch? :)

29.) 10 Feb 2014
Devil Dust

You are not worth it:)

30.) 10 Feb 2014
We have mata, player of the year twice with chelsea. Kagawa, bundisliga player of the year twice. And Rooney. And januzaj. All these players are capable f quick intricate passing, but they are not being allowed to do so as we insist on playing with wingers.
As their cb said today, he was quite happy to be heading balls all day. Stupid tactic, never going to succeed with that!
No excuses.

31.) 10 Feb 2014
Nomidfield, have you seen Rooney's first touch either?

32.) 10 Feb 2014
Fair point, Resol. A bit of realism on here at last. Danny, keep it briefer please. I struggle with so many words, as you know.

Love how you know all the answers to running our team, just like your mate, Red Man, was able to fix the England cricket team in one post. Your knowledge knows no bounds. You're truly wasted on this site. A premiership managers role surely awaits.

33.) 10 Feb 2014
Stevie, all you need to do is BELIEVE in Saint David like a good little Moyesette.

34.) 10 Feb 2014
It's not belief, Danny, it's just giving someone a fair crack of the whip. If he doesn't cut it after he gets his own players and gets to play his own formations, then it'll be thanks for the effort, Dave, all the best.

He wasn't my first choice either, but I try not to let my own ego get in the way about that, when posting on here, unlike you and some of the other Chicken Licken brigade :)

35.) 10 Feb 2014
Ajs71

If you are going to quote a nobody that matters none, then I guess you can.

To play Barca style football takes certain players and that is why it is very difficult for anyone to emulate and we do not have the players to even try it.

On another note, Why don't you then go ahead and quote Carrick or Mata as well because they also had interesting things to say about the match.

I personally am more interested in what they said given their status and accomplishments in the game than some nobody. Whilst you are at it why don't you quote, Steve Bruce, Pallister, Beckham, Cole who by any measure are legends of our club and top football players and what they have all come out and said.

There is nothing wrong with crossing the ball into the box, what the players decide in terms of where and what area of the pitch is going to cross is a function of the quality of runs by our forward and midfielders and quality of our crossing.

36.) 10 Feb 2014
You're doing it wrong Stevie. It's only thugs like Jose that need to buy success, Saint David can succeed with our faith alone. BELIEVE little Moyesette, BELIEVE.

37.) 10 Feb 2014
10 Feb 2014 20:23:50
GCU
its easy to get guys on the payroll singing from the same hymn sheet and Fulhams current manager said we were predictable. is his opinion valid considering he was at Old Trafford for 5 fairly successful years?
Mata, Kagawa, Rooney, Rvp and Januzaj not capable of playing football on the ground passing quickly to one another? If not why did Moyes buy Mata? To get on the end of another cross? The game has moved on, perhaps your blinkered view of how the game should be played is more suited to conference football along with Dave's. he is responsible for results and staff morale and is failing. he looks a beaten man on the sidelines and if you believe that does not transfer to his playing staff you are deluded and clearly have no idea about man management

38.) 10 Feb 2014
Danny, I have this disturbing image of you, Red Man and Nomidfield, all sitting round screeching and giggling like little schoolgirls, every time you say the, 'believe' word, and virtually high fiveing each other at how funny and clever you all are. Thanks for that :)

39.) 10 Feb 2014
Noname

With all due respect let's not talk about man management and what we have done and do for a living, I will not be nice if we go there and will get personal!! but first post your name.

The game has changes in terms of football lingo and what someone calls 442 is 4231 or even 4411.

The most devastating team in the PL league play a 442 formation with overlapping fullbacks, which is exactly what we play most of the time. They get down the line and cross the ball and score for fun. unfortunately they are the blue half of manchester.

I do agree moyes looks shattered and would you be given how bad things have gone.

40.) 10 Feb 2014
Hush little Stevie don't say a thing
Moyesie's going to buy you a brand new team
And if that brand new team don't win
Moyesie's going to tell them to cross it in


BELIEVE, little Moyesette, BELIEVE

41.) 10 Feb 2014
10 Feb 2014 21:50:17
GCU
agreed Moyes looks shattered but he is responsible for the teams performances and his salary warrants better results and if not at least better performances
I disagree that City play a rigid 4 4 2 crossing for fun. maybe when aguero is out they use it as a plan b but certainly not plan as we do the whole 90 minutes
as far as the rest of europe go:-
England Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool none use our rigid style
Spain Barca Real Madrid Atletico as above
Italy Juve Roma as above
France PSG Monaco as above
Germany Bayern Dortmund as above
Portugal Porto as above
Holland Ajax as above
all the teams play flexible free flowing attacking football and you advocate sticking to a style that was incapable of getting a result at home to Fulham. every team I have mentioned would have beaten Fulham. this is the reality of how quickly we have fallen from grace under the new regime

42.) 10 Feb 2014
And my work here is done.

You have now become the very thing you attacked me for. You have become a sarky smartar$e. Welcome :)

Maybe now you'll embrace it and stop with all the pompous, self-important nonsense.

By the way, just wondering, with this deep concern you have for the future of the club, why haven't I seen you out protesting at OT? I thought you and the rest of the unholy trinity, would have been down waving your Moyes Out placards.

Maybe I missed it, because there's no way you'd just be all mouth and no trousers, limiting yourself and your prospective audience, to a little banter site. Surely not. Prawn sandwich, anyone?

43.) 10 Feb 2014
And by the way, watch that Nomidfield one. He's the weakest link, and he REALLY hates sarcasm.

44.) 10 Feb 2014
That post's a bit too long Steve.
Remember to keep it short and snappy, and BELIEVE.

45.) 11 Feb 2014
Cue that image again of the three of you rolling around giggling hysterically. Except this time you're all in onesies having a slumber party at your boss's (Red Man) house, drinking pop and talking about who fancies who!

I'm never getting to sleep now.

{Ed007's Note - This thread is going nowhere so it is now closed. If it keeps going I will simply delete it and put a short-term ban on people.}

46.) 11 Feb 2014
Sorry, Bond. Got a bit silly there. I enjoy going at it with Danny, but I appreciate it must be boring as help for everyone else.

Consider me duly chastised. Won't happen again.