Manchester United Banter Archive January 14 2015

14 Jan 2015 19:10:25
Falco has showed us flashes of being a top striker, he has proved himself as being a top striker, Wilson needs a bit of time, van persie is coming to an end of being a class striker, so can anyone understand why lvg isn't so sure about falco he was fit last week and would have walked on any team in the world.is he being told from the board we are not signing him, anyone know what's going on there.

Probably his overall cost. Maybe it has an effect on who he wants to sign? The club wanted Falcao, but he loves RvP.

I agree, Falcao should be playing whenever possible. Give him minutes, give him service, and he will score.

Its a very strange decision

I should also add i hope falcao starts banging the goals in and makes for him to be dropped.
given games i'm convinced he will

I think LVG sees the permanent signing of Falcao as being detrimental to his summer plans. If Falcao is signed LVG will have £40m and £283k/week less to play around with (I appreciate these numbers aren't 100%) and thus he doesn't want him to do enough to earn a permanent deal. I get the impression that the loan signing of Falcao was somewhat imposed on LVG by the board (who wanted a big name signing) and if so that won't have helped either. What LVG doesn't seem to realise however is that playing Falcao might actually prove to be imperative as to whether or not LVG is here in the summer. The three points dropped against Southampton last week could prove to be the difference between us finishing fourth and fifth.

I think the price being asked for falcao is very high especially with the minute re sale value if we bought him.
However, falcao has always scored goals and we are lucky to have him, so why not play him? Why not even put him on the bench.
Stupid decision which has backfired on us and it will be good if the boss came out and said he was wrong.
I think this is lvg's way of motivating players, unfortunately, in some cases, it has the opposite effect.

14 Jan 2015 17:54:04
Just out of interest. Noticed today that it's 10 years since the Glazers' took over our club.

What do people think of them now, and have any of you changed your minds about them over the 10 years?

Try and keep it civil, please :)

We will never know what might have been if we had not been burdened with hundreds of millions of pounds in debt to enable them to own the club. If that money had been spent on top players and ground improvements we may have won more in Europe.
Whilst Liverpool had their golden era they won European cups, in ours we got into position then ramped up commercial income to cover interest and reduce debt. We sold one of the greatest players to have played and brought in Valencia, the cash ensuring the club didn't make a loss.
They spent some money last year but what have they done to the ground? All the while City are developing.
Take a walk along the railway alongside OT, empty space and houses for sale, on the face of it there appears to be no real plans to buy it to expand the South stand.
One point for me that stands out, commercial plans apart, does anyone know the vision for the club? City ouze ambition yet whilst we are Commercial Champuons we are no longer football Champions.

I see the same infrastructure in and around the club that has been there for years, the same scoreboards and tired busy bars that can't cope with customers at half time. I see Gary Neville putting a hotel near by, why didn't they see that. What do they do for fans pre game? It is arrogance to think fans will keep coming, no matter what.
It needs someone with vision that doesn't need a debt to buy the club, yet overwhelmingly my feeling towards the Glazers is that they took away the chance we had to use our financial strength at the time it would and should have benefitted us most, for that it means years of missed chances.

Brilliant red man, hopefully people will see this and stop thinking 'well we've been successful so how can you say the glazers are bad'

14 Jan 2015 23:36:57
Red Man - Surely they know that the reason we're 'commercial champions' is because we've been successful 'football champions', they come hand in hand really. They'll know without us being successful and ambitious on the pitch, that the value of the club will decrease.

While I don't think they've been the best, they're certainly not the worst and I think they seem to know what they're doing, as long as we're doing well financially I think we should remain competitive. We've still spent a fair bit of money on some of the top talent around at the time in the past 10 years.

15 Jan 2015 00:18:00
Red Man, totally agree. We should have pushed on after our last European success, in a way we didn't after '99.

If they had put the money in at that point, we wouldn't be in the position we're in now. They thought they could do it on the cheap, and that domestic success would continue, along with a decent run in the ECL every year. No ambition to make us a major force in Europe, whatsoever.

Yes, the money is being spent now, but that's only because they know now that it needs to be. If only they'd released the purse strings a lot earlier, we would have had a squad fit for purpose.

As things stand, I think it could be worse, but I'll not forget it could have been a whole lot better, too.

On the other hand, rising from 700mil to being valued at 2bil is quite a significant leap.

Exactly mbd - they will do whatever they can to ensure the business is successful. Success used to be based solely on winning things, but as the commercial aspects no longer dictate actually winning it changes the ambition slightly.

For example 3rd is the boards target, 1st was LVG's target. Why do they differ? Only because sponsors withdraw without CL football, the game is corrupted now.

15 Jan 2015 16:47:52
Beast,

3rd is the boards target because we desperately need Champions League football this year. 3rd was also the realistic target of most of the fans after last years disaster. The club not winning things has a detrimental effect on the value of the club, of course it does.

Mbd

What benefit has the alleged increase in value of the club been to the team or the fans?

I think that we are listed on the stock exchange and as such our shares are being traded based on the value of the club. And we do benefit from at least a percentage of that kitty.

{Ed001's Note - how do the club benefit from a percentage of it? Only an initial offering sees money from share sales placed into the club. Once they are initially sold, the money from further sales go to the shareholder selling them.

The only real benefit to an increased value is the ability to borrow more money via short term loans to buy players.}

14 Jan 2015 16:15:58
So what does everyone make of the latest leaked United shirt for next season.

I'm not sure about it, hopefully its a grower.

It's horrible

14 Jan 2015 17:42:14
Yep that was my first gut reaction

14 Jan 2015 17:49:21
If that's the best Adidas can come up with, after years of me waiting patiently for them to come back, then I despair.

In fact, I think I'll stop supporting Utd altogether. What do you think, KLOOT?

14 Jan 2015 17:58:18
According to Manchester evening news its fake

Probably fake but I think it would look pretty cool if the shirt was fully red without the white bits on the sides/rib area :)

Bloody awful comes to mind

14 Jan 2015 23:39:12
Yeah it's not the real shirt, just like last year It's most likely that it's someone with too much spare time photo shopping some cr@p.

Have seen us wear worse, much worse. Bottom line though; it is a fake.

I actually quite like it. The Chevrolet logo is a bit of an eye sore but other than that I like it.

Looking forward to the actual new one as I think our current home kit is a bit bland.

14 Jan 2015 10:03:42
A quick question for ED 01 or 02 as you guys seem to have an insight into possible incomings and outgoings at a number of clubs. I have seen recently a lot of media coverage on the fact that United (regardless of the managerial situation) will possibly look to offload up to 12-15 players between now and the summer transfer window.

At first I disregarded it as menial tabloid conjecture but I have now seen it being reported by a few well respected journalists and organisations. I know that a lot of the outgoings will be fringe players, individuals who are out of contract and maybe even temporary loans, but 12-15 players seems like a lot to me. If that were the case almost an entire new squad would have to be re-assembled and after our £200million outlay last summer I can't see us replicating that in the coming windows, nor can I see the Glazers sanctioning another mammoth spend so soon. I know it's difficult to predict the future and we are still a long way off the summer where most squads do their rebuilding but I would be keen to hear one or even both of your thoughts in regards to whether this is just media conjecture.

Also I would be very interested to hear if any of the EDs have heard anything regarding the Glazers future plans for the club. After a rocky start at OT they seem to have shown commitment to the club and have been a mainstay here for a few years now but with no CL this year (and if God forbid we miss out again this year) will that still be the case?

Any answers, opinions or views you guys could provide would be great.

{Ed002's Note - 17 players left this past summer, I would not be concerned about the numbers. I have explained what I know about the future plans - try searching on 2017.}

I could see that number being offloaded:

Amos, Lindegaard, Keane (gone), Thorpe, Evans, Nani, Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher, W. Keane, Henriquez (gone) and Hernandez I see leaving as none of them have first team futures with us. We could even see the likes of Van Persie leave if we have the cash for suitable replacements.

The above list is 12 players though and I don't think anyone would disagree that they no longer have a long term future.

I tried posting a link the other day which showed how many of our players have contracts running out in 2016. It is a ridiculous amount of players and a lot of them are fringe players, certainly many players that LVG doesn't seem to rate from what I can tell. This summer is the only time we will get money from them, so it makes sense if they are sold.

I can see 17 players going at least, partly because of that and how poor we are playing - if our players can't do what LVG wants them to do, I imagine he will ship them out as there has been zero improvement in the players adaptability to his systems. He won't change, so the players will have to by the looks of it.

All of these have contracts ending in 2015 or 2016 according to something I have read:

DDG, Lidegaard, Amos Jones, Evans, Smalling, Rafael Cleverley, Carrick, Anderson, Fletcher, Powell, Young RVP, Falcao, Henriquez

It doesn't have Hernandez or Nani down, but they will be out of there as well. That makes 18, obviously a couple of these won't be shipped out, but there are numerous others that he won't rate in the team like Herrera maybe Januzaj and even Mata. Then we have many young players that aren't listed like McNair, Blackett, James.

I said before this will be the busiest summer ever, we have to be damn sure that LVG is the man do it before the cull starts. (These names were rights as of August it says, so maybe new contracts have been signed with some of them, I'm not sure).

{Ed002's Note - You appreciate that this is typically true for many clubs?}

Lindegaard, Amos, Rafael, James, Evans, Thorpe, Cleverley, Nani, Anderson, Fletcher, Hernandez, Henriquez, W.Keane, Lingard, Zaha, Varela all out IMO.

A RB, CB or two, midfielder and forward signed.

Beast, I am not sure it totally matters what LvG thinks about one or two players. I am not 100% convinced LvG makes all the transfer decisions. I still think there is a 3rd party so to speak at MU who makes decisions too. I wouldn't be surprised if it's SAF. LvG will of course want players, but I think the primary targets were picked before LvG's appointment and I think they are still the targets now.

Yes Ed, but I think a key difference is that many of these players have fallen well below Man Utd standard for a long time and have been commanding large wages for minimal contributions for the duration of their contracts - many have simply not kicked on. There are exceptions of course, but I think a mass clear out is afoot.

14 Jan 2015 11:36:40
I wouldn't be unhappy if every player left bar david de gea that's how bad it has got.Im sick of overpaid pre madonnas who think there great.Im sick of watching boring dross.I preferred the 80's at least they had passion.Its all about money these days.Old Trafford is soulless with no atmosphere.Bring back standing

The real question is who were they before they became Madonna?

Blackpool Red - DDG and Shaw for me. Quite worrying, that. What's even more worrying is that DDG looks likely to leave.

14 Jan 2015 13:09:51
Blackpool red,

Every player except De Gea lol brilliant.

You know that nobody forces you to go to the soulless Old Trafford (which has actually had a pretty good atmosphere at most games this season). You sound like someone stuck in the 80s unwilling to move with the times, sat listening to Bon Jovi playing with your cabbage patch doll waiting until a back to the future movie is on ITV2.

We know times have changed in football, you either embrace it or stop watching, simple as that, moaning about it will just make you a miserable old man.

GDS2 - Moaning about it will hopefully lead to change, simply accepting it will lead to what we are quickly becoming!

You need to watch some of the Zeitgeist documentaries mate, if you just accept crap you will end up being crap. The world is a scary place, football used to be a place to lose yourself and be passionate about for me, but now it's morphing into what I hate, its horrible.

Football is losing it's appeal in the quest for money. The club owners are typically businessmen rather than football lovers, therefore the end goal is to make money however they can. Football is killing itself, the players act like they are Gods, the clubs think they are untouchable and the fans are treated like wallets. Corruption is everywhere, the game is full of mercenaries and players are grown men diving, feigning injury or simply not caring about anything but the quest for more cash! There are of course exceptions, but they are less and less obvious.

Not only do I want Man Utd back, I want football back.

14 Jan 2015 14:48:50
Beast, I've a tear in my eye after that, mate :)

14 Jan 2015 14:56:25
This unfortunately is the modern game mate, moaning on a website isn't going to get you any change I assure you of that, and if you think it will then no wonder you moan so much.

Football is still my passion and always will be in whatever form it takes, I watch it for enjoyment and as a hobby, an amazing hobby that has given me some amazing times and memories over the years.

If you want to support a team that doesn't have mercenaries go and support Salford City or Hartlepool who are probably about to get relegated from the football league. You support Manchester United, you want the club to go out and spend ridiculous amounts, sack managers which will cost a fortune, and then complain when the owners are using you for your money, where else do you expect them to get it from?

14 Jan 2015 15:16:59
Gds2 if you think the atmosphere has been good you don't know what an atmosphere is my friend.Ive been home & away for years lots of European aways,champions league finals a few pre season tours reserve games & youth games.I don't go as much as I used too due to work commitments & money.I travel to manchester 4 times a week to take my lad to the academy at the cliff so don't tell me anything.I love this this club & hate what it has become but I'll never not support them no matter what goes on

14 Jan 2015 15:18:29
Red7, I don't think DDG is likely to be going anywhere. He's likely to sign an extension.

GDS2 - I moan about what is happening with our club because it is totally avoidable. Having patience isn't the same thing as loyalty, I would be up for giving anybody time if they had the willingness to adapt and evolve.

All of us love football, but there are thousands of supporters of all clubs slowly losing their passion for it. Supporting another team is not an option for a true fan, and simply giving up football is illogical. The few are dictating how the masses have to act and it is destroying the game. It happens with everything, as soon as you discover your product can have a mass market you lose the magic you had with the product and the loyal customer/fan becomes less important.

I have it with my companies, if I use a small supplier for IT support, as soon as they grow for the worse goes the customer service, direct lines are replaced with robotic switchboards, then if you threaten to leave they have doubled their client base so it makes little difference to them - 3 years before the would have bent over backwards just to have a meeting with you. Same happens with us supporting Utd, if we leave so what, it won't impact the club now - better to change it from within.

Society is fickle and it encourages short term selfish thinking, that is why footballers have less passion than they used to, its about fame and glory now rather than being the best at what you do for a living - look at Tadic the other day for a simple example. Most persons or newcomers to the game will think his celebration was all about his passion and he couldn't resist ripping his top off in the heights of euphoria. It was all pre-conceived, knowing he would be on every magazine/newspaper, twitter feed etc, his celebration was all about improving his global image, not what he had done for his team, everything is pre-meditated, its all false and as more and more fame seeking youngsters enter the game and more and more fair weather fans do from all over the world the soul is being ripped out of what most of us love and are slowly losing.

I don't mind the club spending the money, I just don't like the attitude and the illusions or grandeur which have reached ludicrous proportions.

14 Jan 2015 16:10:11
BR,

You are a much bigger fan than me then if you have been to pre-season tours and reserve games, I bow down to you.

14 Jan 2015 16:24:26
We're all fans who want the best for our club

14 Jan 2015 16:38:50
Beast,

You have clearly never scored a goal in a big game if you think ripping his shirt off was pre-meditated. I have scored goals in cup finals and an hour later had no idea how I celebrated, and that was just at a lower level, not scoring the winner at Old Trafford for my team for the firs time in however many years.

I agree with your other points, I just still don't understand what moaning about it on a website will do? You can hate it and disagree with it, but unless everybody took a stand, which will never happen, you just have to move with the times.

If that means you fall out of love with football then so be it, but I feel fortunate that we support a team that are financially stable and will be for a long time, whereas other clubs are falling off the face of the Earth.

Your comment earlier, 'moaning about it will hopefully lead to change' is what I have the issue with, because you basically just argued against that point and said the supporter has no power.

Good post beast, gds the atmosphere has been average nothing like it should or used to be, and the reason is a lot of diehard passionate fans don't go anymore through one reason or another.at the newcastle game i felt like slapping some of the one match wonders blocking every stairwell taking selfies.and we saw the demise of red issue at sundays game again down to a lack of genuine hardcore fans being replaced as the say by families and happy clappers.

GDS2 - I scored a winning goal in front of 48,000 people in my youth so I can identify with it believe me (my top didn't come off as it happens but I know what you mean). Everyone is different but Tadic was pre-planned hands down and was more about self adulation than anything else.

Regarding the moaning, you are right one man has no chance, however moaning on here leads to other people picking up on it, thinking differently, talking more and learning more. How does anything change? Everyday you hear about pressure leading to change because of mass rejection of the idea. Cardiff City shirt change as one immediate example, think of it as the same as booing, or chants, or even the green and gold. Some don't work, but there are many occasions when one person turns into many and change occurs.

Anyway, let's move on as we are pretty much on the same page.

14 Jan 2015 19:12:46
Tony, I think the 'before Madonna' remark deserved a few more agrees. Nice one, centurion :)

14 Jan 2015 22:40:32
Agreed, feel like the rest of the post took away from what was a brilliant joke.