Manchester United Banter Archive February 15 2015

15 Feb 2015 18:45:44
Can I politely make a request please posters?
I know there is great debate on here about LvG. He has become the "new Marmite". But please, especially to those who want him gone, can you all please stop using the word " philosophy" as a stick to beat him. It is getting soooo tiresome.
I know he talked about it himself, especially when he was first appointed. But, back then, everyone (well most, anyway) was bigging LvG up as the new messiah and constantly quoting his "philosophy". Fast forward a few months, and because we aren't playing like Real Madrid, we use it as a criticism instead.
I totally agree we are boring to watch, and should be progressing more than we are. But please, stop banging on about the bloody philosophy. 😈

Yeah even I am getting fed up of beating him with that one.

15 Feb 2015 19:33:37
Has someone actually beaten him with a stick? I'm just saying. that face :O

Betty
The bigging him up in the summer drove me round the bend .

Lol Betty, fair point.

The reason people bring it up is because LVG banged on about it so much when he started yet nobody can see what it is. It's a bit like dark matter.: we know it exists but nobody has been able to prove it.

Haha good one AJH. The Collider is due to start again in March so hopefully they will find it in time, apparently they are expecting an amazing discovery.

Fair do's Betty, your right.
Lets just let LVG beat himself up with it.

I think he has moved on to "balance" now anyway, that seems to be used a bit more often than the P-word these days.

Beast
That's only because he can't find where he put the "P" word, maybe Beavis has got it.

15 Feb 2015 17:34:37
No midfield

It's all well and good saying we've only lost 1 game in 18, it makes us look great. But look at the games we have played, we should be expecting to win those games with the exception of arsenal. There's 14 games left, maybe 18 if you include the fa cup, let's see if lvg can go unbeaten in these games. I honestly feel we won't make the top 4 again this season, to me arsenal and even liverpool look more likely, were scraping through games with luck. We have the players to absolutely demolish teams but I just feel players are unhappy at the minute, for me the sooner lvg goes the better. I do agree with u in one sense Thomas for who we could get to replace him? Klopp or bland for me unless Ancelotti was available. I understand conte is a good coach but would he just be another defensive type manager?

{Ed004's Note - You mean Klopp who has been struggling in the bottom half of the Bundesliga all season or Blanc who has massively under-performed with PSG this season?}

It has to be Simone Conte or Ancellotti anybody else would be stupid Pep has made Bayern weaker Kloop is struggling with Dortmund and Blanc couldn't even top a French league they should walk

15 Feb 2015 18:16:51
Tbh how u can say we have been lucky for that run is laughable, yes we have been uninspiring but lucky? I'll give u there has been the odd bit of luck, Southampton away, but every team needs a bit here and there.
stop listening to what your being told by others and look at it logically, we have lost 1 in 18 playing sleepwalking football not lucky football.

Yeah klopp who has also won back to back league titles but then lost half his team and is having a bad year but there hitting form now, and yes blanc who also has titles behind him and is what? 2 points off the top? Tell me ed 004 how's hiring klopp any worse than hiring van gaal who if u remember left Barcelona sat in 17th? Who also only has 2 league titles since the turn of the century? Or do u only remember the good points?

{Ed004's Note - Klopp lost half his team... Only Lewandowski left in the summer or are you talking about injuries? If so thank god we haven't had to play with an injury depleted squad at all this season. Don't follow the French league much but are Psg not playing poor football and sitting in 3rd place? The exact same thing LvG is doing in a far more competitive league and getting slated for. But you are talking about past successes with both your managers even though we have a manager who has won far more but if I mention that I'm only seeing the good points of his career. I don't think LvG will be here next season but the grass isn't always greener on the other side. If you highlight that I only see the good points then surely you're only seeing the bad points.}

I don't get why it needs to be a massive name (other than for share price reasons). Granted we are a huge club, but that is the commercial aspect. We need somebody who is intelligent, has a strong character, can man manage elite professionals and believes in attacking football, under 50.

Ultimately we are not asking for a CEO, we are asking for a football manager. There are dozens out there with CL experience and the right core ingredients to take a punt on, because picking a manager is more luck than judgement these days.

LVG would be perfect if we were playing Barcelona or Madrid every week, but we aren't. He sets up most weeks like we are facing a team with better individuals than our own and that is a key problem I think.

I firmly believe LVG would have Stoke on as many points as we have this season if he were managing them - he isn't necessarily an awful manager, he just isn't a Man Utd manager. Our talent is wasted on him.

Managers like Simeone, Poch at Spurs all come from somewhere, even Pep, Klopp, no massive pedigree before they were hired by top clubs. I've said it before but we need to look at the right attributes, not the right CV. What is Rijkaard doing these days?

And I firmly believe you keep trying until you get it right, if their ideas aren't being implemented and there is no progress after 6 months - get rid and start again. You get the manager that fits the club, you don't change the club to fit the manager. One manager can be awful at one club and great at another.

{Ed004's Note - I love the football Koeman is playing at Southampton tbh he has impressed me. Ponchettino style of play is good as well (maybe our team would suit him more? Di Maria, Herrera, Blind etc used to high pressing games) though I'm now 50/50 on Klopp this season has put me off him but his style of play is brilliant to watch}

More than Southampton away red man. In that run we could of lost easily in a few of those games, arsenal should of put us to bed, Southampton in both games, Stoke had chances cleared off the line, burnley where miles better, de gea has saved us more often than not. The simple fact is we're only just in the top 4 and stil have to play, Spurs, Chelsea, arsenal, city, Liverpool, Everton. We coul easily drop points in those games. I notice my first reply wasn't put up

Do not try and insult me either chris

It depends what you deem as luck Chris. If luck is winning or drawing when the other team played better and had better chances, then most of our games have been lucky this season.

Almost every away game the general consensus afterwards was "we got away with that today", far too many home games as well.

Any neutral would pick the other team as being the better one in over 75% of games this season - that just is not right for a team with our talent. Then you add how boring we are and you can see why I am so anti what is happening.

1 in 18 sounds so much more impressive than what it actually is, just like LVG's CV.

The difference with klopp and Dortmund ed is that they don't have a massive squad like us, this season they have lost lewandowski, they lost gotze the year before and injuries have been worse, at one point they had reus, kuba, the Polish rb, gundogan, sahin all injured, yeah we had injuries but we have much better back ups than they have so its easier to cope. Psg are under performing but they win 1 game and Lyon lose then there back on top, there not chasing 12 points are they? Lvg doesn't even have to deal with the extra European games and he's hugely under performing

{Ed004's Note - So we can excuse Dortmunds injuries but Van Gaal doesn't get that afforded to him. Ok fair enough no point arguing about that. PSG have played shite football, are in a poor league and are struggling. Also Blanc didn't have to deal with a summer over haul and a team lacking in confidence. I'm not trying to state that LvG is the best manager for us (don't think he is) just trying to point out both managers you have mentioned are risks as well. I ignored that 12 point comment because I don't want to start comparing the mighty Lyon against Chelsea and personally I think we would be a lot closer to top of the league if we didn't throw away points in first few games Swansea, Burnley, Leceister etc when players were integrating. We started the season playing catch up}

Thank you beast for talking sense, lvg is a fraud, he's won 2 titles since the turn of the century, 1 was with bayern (most of us on here would have a good chance at that) the other was the Dutch league, the same league Steve mcclaren won. Lvg lives off his one champions league win 20 years ago. People should remember Roy hodgson once won 5 league titles in a row

But they both play attacking football ed lvg sets up just the same as moyes. I hate the excuse of we are in transition or had an overhaul because so do other teams. Whether the league is stronger or not psg are still in the running for the title, with the players we have there's no excuse, we should be in for the title. Same with Dortmund, as I said we have a bigger squad to deal with our injuries, if falcao gets injured we have Rooney or rvp etc Dortmund don't have that luxury.

{Ed004's Note - I agree with the style of play comment. However, I was just showing how we aren't guaranteed success with either of the managers you have mentioned. Currently, I think LvG is doing a decent job, exactly what he has been tasked to do. If he gets third and competes well in the fa cup I would be happy with him staying next season as I think we will continue to buy players who will play the way he wants them to (ie I think it will be the 433). However, at the end of the season if he is replaced, as long as it is by a good manager, I will not lose any sleep. Last year Klopp would have been my first choice. Now a days I have my reservations about him. Though Ancelloti could be a possibly}

I did originally say unless Ancelotti is available, he would be first choice, as I do agree any manager can be a risk. I don't understand why he can't play his 4-3-3 at the moment, I don't wanna put a team up as it can congest things but a front 3 of rooney, falcao/Rvp and januzaj then a mid of fellaini, Herrera and di Maria looks fine to me.but I'm just an air conditioning engineer lol

{Ed004's Note - I think he needs to decide between Rooney, RVP and Falcao who plays as the striker. Di Maria and Januzaj out wide. With Blind Herrera and Mata. Plenty of energy in that team. Hindsight is wonderful, but I if I was to go back to deadline day I wouldn't want Falcao}

I like falcao but he isn't doing enough, he's another Forlan, which is a shame, I'd play rooney and januzaj out wide as wide forwards if it was me, cutting in like reals and bayerns wide men do (although it may not be with similar effect) I don't even know who we could sign to compliment LVG's system now, unless we got vidal and another striker or wide forward

{Ed004's Note - I think a big problem is still Rooney. There seems to be an unwritten rule that he has to start. I think we should be playing him as a striker but gradually replacing him over next couple of seasons. Sign a cm, lm and striker. Sell Rvp and don't sign falcao. There's about 400k min in wages saved.}

Totally agree on the Rooney debate, he needs to be weened out of the team. I put him in just because he's captain to b honest

{Ed004's Note - Shame Moyes decided to keep him. Ferguson had played it so if he was sold there wouldn't have been much of a fuss}

Diego, I was merely explaining that in the past 18 games we've lost one game and to sack a manager under these circumstances is ridiculous. Surely you can see that?
On the subject of luck, we've had good and bad luck. Burnley away, we should've had 2 pens. Southampton at home, mata missed two sitters. Swansea at home, we missed a hatful of chances. Spurs away, we should have scored 4 goals in the first half.
All other teams have had the same so let's stop believing all the rubbish you read in the papers about us being lucky. And let's get behind the team and manager.

If we sacked the manager now whilst in 3rd place and still in the cup I wonder whether another top manager would want the job as they may conclude the club will not adequately support the next manager. It needs to be reviewed at the end of the season. I agree with much of what the Ed has been saying.

16 Feb 2015 07:19:22
Sorry mate, please tell me where I tried to insult u? I honestly didn't even attempt any insults so quite where u got that from I don't know? If u felt insulted I apologize that was not remotely in my thinking when posting.

Shesh way to many people are over sensitive on here now!!

I still disagree with the notion we are lucky, we have had a little here and there but to claim 1 loss in 18 is down to luck is laughable. Yes stoke could of nicked a goal but likewise if we would of took one more of our chances we could of finished it comfortably 3-1, likewise the arsenal game was a typical game against a team where every top club has figured out how to beat.
I'm not claiming we have been amazing but I strongly disagree with the notion we have been lucky.

I think Goetze leaving had a big effect too.In matter of 3-4 seasons they lost one of the most exciting and effective attacking forward formations there has been in European football: Lewandowski;Goetze and Kagawa. That's very hard to replace. Look how we struggled after loosing Tevez and Ronaldo.If Rooney had gone too and not properly replaced, we would of really struggled. Klopp is a class manager.Maybe he needs a new challenge?
I still rate van Gaal, he needs to get to grips with the English game. Unfortunately he seems to think the English game needs to get to grips with him. I hope he puts Rooney upfront just behind Falcao tonight and Herrera, who is rapidly becoming this seasons Kagawa, in central midfield.

So rooney is still the problem.
I think some people really do have an agenda .
He is being played out of position week in week out.
There seems to be a rule rvp plays and rooney must play cm to prove lvg is right and the master tactician.

As I read somewhere this morning, "LvG will be looking for a creative midfielder this summer but maybe the priority is a creative manager".

Big Lewandowski

"Unfortunately he seems to think the English game needs to get to grips with him."

Perfect way to put it.

Nice one Herbie, if van Gaal could just get over himself a bit he'd be a much better manager.
GDS, I agree with you about Herrera, he can give the ball away a lot but this seems to be the norm with our midfield at present. But he should be in there nonetheless with Rooney upfront at in the number 10 role.
Should be a good game tonight, not going unfortunately, never been Deepdale before. Is Beckford playing tonight?

15 Feb 2015 17:21:14
Scocers looked very good and effective last night. And they were playing 3-5-1-1 formation. It works for two reasons. One is that they had sturridge up front as a lone striker making all sorts of diagonal runs and always on the move. And secondly is that they played 5 in midfield and one behind the striker.all the midfielders were interchanging so they were more difficult to pick up if you're the opposing team.
We have all the players here to play in this system, we need lvg to actually put the right players in the right position.

{Ed004's Note - I really want to see a line up consisting of Rafael, Shaw, Blind, Herrera, Mata and Di Maria. All creative, quick on the ball and have good movement. Play one striker or two if one is Rooney. Our two centre backs Smalling and Rojo are quick enough to play a high line}

Agree ed4. Liverpool looked full of threat playing this system. But we have to ditch rvp as this system requires a very energetic lone striker. Then we can play the players you mentioned behind him and rooney supporting the striker.
We have the players so we need the manager to slot them in the right position.

{Ed004's Note - After spending over 150 mill in the past couple of windows we are still massively short of the likes of Chelsea, City, Madrid etc}

15 Feb 2015 09:09:54
Louis, Louis, Louis your hypocrisy and downright ignorance is really starting to bug me.

LVG has now stated that 'Rooney may be his best striker but he must play in midfield to accommodate others". What happened to this 'strong character' who would pick his own team and wasn't afraid to drop under-performers and star names? He seems to be the complete opposite.

On another note, Radamel Falcao is suffering big time in this team. Here we are as supporters with this legendary striker in the box, who we all want to see at his best and we are being robbed of it because quite simply LVG sets up his team not to fail rather than win.

We need to play with tempo and movement. Push Rooney forward and let the tiger out of his cage!

His admissions are quite concerning, when he admits to sacrificing his best forward to a different position to accommodate other players that's when you know/realise he is not the right man for the job. If the reports are correct of course.
Stubborn egotist.

15 Feb 2015 12:38:26
Having given lvg over 6 months already the situation's concerning to say the least, there seems to be three camps those who want his head asap those who think he can do no wrong and those who want to see how the season pans out and to see what we achive, I would be happy to see us finish top four and make the fa cup final , anything less and for me lvg is in a precarious position. But we must be aware of loosing our stability as a club going from manager to manager every season is unsettling, having said that look at Chelsea.

LVG's thought processes really are a concern. I don't know of any other manager who would admit who their best striker is and then say despite this I will play him in midfield.

I really am fed up of seeing two very similar strikers up front, it just doesn't work. Van Persie is slow with no movement, and Falcao is slow with a little bit more movement. It is time to play 4-2-3-1 or something like that and drop LVG's love child, play Falcao up top and Rooney behind as a number 10.

My major trouble is that I can't see what the manager has done to warrant more time. It's all well and good for those saying "wait and see", but do we really want to run the increasingly likely risk of having another season out of the main competition and our stock falling even lower?

This season has been horrible to watch and especially to wait for our games to come around, if he does get top 4 and keeps his job do we really want to see more of the same next season? Believe me if he can't manage a season effectively without Europe just imagine when he has to juggle domestic and Europe, plus the obvious massive player turnover we will see in the summer, how does he sort all that out when he still hasn't done it this season?

More than happy to give anybody time if they show signs of progress, that is the key point here - If they do and say the right things, he isn't even saying the right things.

If you are in a taxi with a maniac driver, you get him to pull over and get out if you have any sense. I get the impression a lot of you would just stay in the taxi hoping it will be ok because at the end of the day it would offend the driver and be a hassle for you to sort it out and get a new taxi sent, better to bury your head and hope it turns out ok - meanwhile risking everything for the sake of ignoring the obvious danger! For the record I have been guilty of doing this myself in the past and afterwards I think what a plum I was!

And for those of you saying we shouldn't turn into a club that sacks a manager every season, you don't marry somebody just because the other date you went on was bad, the number of dates you have been on has nothing to do with it. It's all to do with finding the right person, or them willing to change the things you don't like and demonstrating that they can and will. Its just the same as finding the right manager, its give and take but most importantly we can't act like a desperate spinster, we are a catch and our manager should appreciate that, otherwise they should take their contradictions and bizarre methodology elsewhere.

I am inclined to agree somewhat Beast. What exactly would we be waiting for. He has had two windows, in which he has bought players that realistically don't go together. He is playing players in poor positions and his vision/philosophy or whatever it is changes weekly.

15 Feb 2015 13:59:07
I read this morning that United are top of the PL form table over the last 15 matches, therefore ahead of both Chelsea and Citeh!

If the Glazers sacked LVG at this point then it would go down as one of the most bizarre footballing decisions of all time.

{Ed002's Note - What a ridiculous statistic.}

OK beast and fresh. Let's say we sack lvg tonight having lost once in 18 matches and only conceded 9 goals in the process. So he do we bring in? Klopp? Simone? Ancelotti? Conti? Pep? None of these are available.
And let's say we sack him now and the new manager comes in and plays attacking football but we start conceding goals and losing matches, would you still be behind this plan?
1 match lost in 18, and we're complaining? I agree with you wholeheartedly that the football has been boring to watch, but we've got to be careful what we wish for. Sacking lvg now will be an absolute disaster as Giggs is nowhere near ready to manage and I'm not even sure he'll ever be. So who do you suggest we get in to manage for the rest of the season?

{Ed002's Note - Two of those managers are expected to move this summer.}

Nicely summed up Fresh. Many of us seem to be waiting for the day everything just clicks, but in reality you see this in stages, everything just doesn't go 180 degrees overnight. Old Leopard Van Gaal isn't the type to change his spots, in fact those spots are getting darker and darker as time goes on.

I am not against LVG, and I too hope he turns our playing style around but I just don't see it happening based on what he has to say.

Ancelotti would bring an attacking style of play and I was also advocate Blanc who also would do a good job.

With every press conference LVG digs himself into a deeper hole, and he is not the type to back track.

No-Mid - I honestly think Giggs would do a better job holding the fort until the Summer - just letting the players play. I don't see Giggs anywhere near ready and doubt he will be full time (not strong or intelligent enough for me). But this team should be winning the league with no Europe (look at Liverpool last season), not scrapping for 3/4th place and frankly looking like we will end up with 5th or 6th. No manager would be better than this manager in many ways - move McClair up even, anybody that will let the players play their natural game.

LVG treats every game like we are in an away tie against Real Madrid - that is the fundamental problem. Scrappy performances are acceptable from time to time just to get the result, but not every time with the players he has at his disposal and the time he has on the training ground.

16 Feb 2015 10:36:53
I must admit to being baffled by what he said.

If RVP and Falcao were on fire I could understand Rooney being moved into CM. Thus it is a no brainer for me: play the man in his best position.

As much as I want the manager to do well, he isn't aiding his own course.

15 Feb 2015 00:08:31
all the best for your trip to PRESTON on monday night lads, the big boys are going to paris on tuesday, maybe yous will get abroad next season ?

15 Feb 2015 02:02:35
Is this serious?

{Ed007's Note - I felt sorry for her.}

In spite of the user name, please don't associate him with us other Chelsea fans. Stupid troll.

15 Feb 2015 09:25:42
Wowwww, did u write that all by yourself?

And I think your team are going to MBE done by PSG.