Manchester United Banter Archive April 29 2015

29 Apr 2015 22:23:47
I was just wondering if it came down to a straight choice between Angel Di Maria or Mesut Ozil who would most fans choose?

Both came from Madrid at the peak of their powers, both came for inflated fees, both were marquee signings, both play in similar roles, both are of similar age and both haven't set the world alight in the EPL yet.

For me I would choose Ozil simply on the fact he gets the basic work done before anything else. He can pass five yards and doesn't stop running the whole game. Ability wise I don't think there is much in it but I feel Mesut Ozil may just have an extra nugget or two in the intelligence department than his Argentine counterpart.

29 Apr 2015 23:01:50
ADM every day of the week, I can't believe people are writing him off this soon, he's had a difficult start to say the least plagued by injuries and loss of form and he's not had a chance in the team whilst we've been playing best. Give him a fair chance and I'm sure you'll be eating your words.

29 Apr 2015 23:09:10
anon
on the money my man

29 Apr 2015 23:09:36
I think it's a bit shortsighted to say Ozil hasn't set the world alight. He has suffered from injuries, but he has one of the highest chance creation rates in the league for the last two years. He was never a prolific scorer, and if Arsenal had better strikers he would be far more effective. As far as I'm concerned he gets stuck because he doesn't chase the ball and 'get stuck in' like a 'proper' player should. Ozil's talent is in creating space and ghosting into dangerous positions where he can do real damage. He has done this fairly consistently for Arsenal.

Di Maria, on the other hand, has created goals but wasted so much possession, and generally looks disinterested. Di Maria needs to get on the ball to have impact on the game, but for every goal he creates, he wastes ten chances.

Ozil for me every time.

{Ed025's Note - very much of a muchness for me danny, 2 players who wish they were somewhere else..

29 Apr 2015 23:15:14
Both should be sent back to Madrid and apologise for the money they cost,Real Madrid should be done for fraud cause they know what their doing,if they want DDg they should be held ransom to 100mil.play them at their own game

{Ed025's Note - im with you leahy mate..

29 Apr 2015 23:22:38
I read he has been hitting the gym like de gea has to get stronger so we could see the real di maria next season

{Ed025's Note - for the money paid he should be hitting the back of the net not the gym daz..

29 Apr 2015 23:35:40
If you were given the choice of Ozil or ADM 2 years ago who would you go for? I would of gone with Ozil.
Although I agree with you Anon I just don't think ADM wants to be here, hope I'm wrong and he proves his worth next year.

30 Apr 2015 00:38:11
Evidently the majority didn't watch ADM too much for Real Madrid, and are basing our opinions off of ratings. If you watched Madrid often with ADM then you should already know he wastes tenfold of what he creates, but the chances he does create are amazing.

Every Real Madrid fan you could ever ask who watched them week in week out would tell you this, and I think too many people expected Ronaldo when we were getting nothimg of the sort.

The people who are complaining the most about Di Maria, are the ones who knew him by his name and a couple Classico's, Madrid Derby's and a Champions League Final, and most of all Youtube videos.

Di Maria should adapt better next season, with a full pre-season under his belt, and hopefully a heck of a lot of protein put into his system mixed with a heck of a lot of gym time. Should he adapt, he will still lose possession a lot of the time.

He is a player who will p*ss you off so much to the point you think we need to get rid, but then one week he will make you fall in love.

ADM hasn't really seemed to click with anybody in the team yet, and Ashley Young hitting the best form of his life certainly hasn't helped a struggling player. Give him time, give him support, because when he signed every United fan adored him, and only wanted to see him play, now he's struggling the majority are hating on him, and not supporting him.

And where does that sound familiar? Madrid.

{Ed007's Note - I said it at the time and I still believe it, Utd didn't sign ADM for footballing reasons, it was more a show of their financial muscle in another wise disastrous year. Real Madrid must have been over the moon to get the money Utd paid for him, can anyone really say he has been value for money?
As you say, MPez anyone who regularly watched Madrid (even Argentina) would have known that Utd were signing a very inconsistent player. All the talk about settling in periods etc is just bollox, that's just a generic excuse used by supporters for signing big money flops. With the Utd squad the way it was last summer was ADM the best way for around £60 million to be spent, that's Madrid had the majority of the Ronaldo money back, so hypothetically does ADM + £20 million = Ronaldo?
If a player costs the kind of money that ADM cost he should be hitting the ground running and proving his worth, has ADM justified being the 5th most expensive transfer in football, who got better value for their money last summer, Real Madrid with James Rodriguez, Barca with Suarez or Utd with ADM?}

30 Apr 2015 01:02:08
Both very different players. I think Di Maria, when playing well is exactly what United need. He accelerates play and torments defenders 1v1. However, I think Ozil is overall the better player and his awareness and final ball are second to none. A player like Di Maria is more vital to the team in my opinion, as we have the likes of Mata, Rooney, even Fellaini who can operate as playmakers.

30 Apr 2015 05:58:23
It was an awful lot of money for a very inconsistent player. I'd rather we hadn't bought hm and I don't see him being here long.

30 Apr 2015 07:55:10
Ozil for me as he is the type of player that suits Van Gaal system more. Di Maria loses possession way too many times trying things that are not there.

30 Apr 2015 09:34:05
Although both attack minded players they are very different players, I would say Ozil is more like Mata, a clever player who uses movement and vision to open teams up. Where as ADM is more like Sanchez who uses his pace to beat people.

I said last summer when we started chasing ADM that he was a left footed better version of Nani. But once we signed him I backed him as I do all players who come to our club. Unfortunately I may have been proven right. Incidentally since Nani left our club and supporters have been left to only see Nani's highlights for this season many seem to have forgotten how often he gave the ball away or would be a complete passenger in many games and feel from his highlights that maybe he is worth another chance.

As to who we should sign of signed from Real Madrid i'd go with no one. If we aspire to be one of the greatest teams in europe then we need to stop buying the cast offs from those teams we aim to beat. we need to accept that for many players playing for Real Madrid will be the pinnacle of their career, so no matter how talented the player is we sign from them there is a strong chance that the player in their mind sees a move away from the Bernabeu as a step down in their career and how that effects them on the pitch can be quite apparent. If Real Madrid sign our best players and we sign their cast offs then how can we ever expect to be able to beat them on the pitch?

As for ADM, true next season he will probably be better placed to play better than he has this season, but let's not forget how poor he has been this season. He can't get into the team ahead of Ashley Young, simply because Young is playing better than him. He will always create chances but at the same time he will never have a better pass completion rate of 75% because he isn't an intelligent player. He will always be inconsistent. If PSG want to give us a significant sum of money for him or even a straight swap for Cavani I would take it, as quite simply the longer we keep him here the more his resale value will drop and the more we will have invested in him in wages.

{Ed025's Note - good post that shappy mate..

30 Apr 2015 10:00:43
i think di maria is a better player than young.
he showed at the start of the season what he is capable of,
im sure we will see a much better di maria next year.
how many people had young down as "not united class " now he is flavour of the month .
people are very quick to write players of on this site

30 Apr 2015 10:26:04
Shappy I can kind of see what you are getting at by not signing players from Madrid but they are most definitely not all cast offs. Some of them want to leave for pastures new for footballing reasons and I for one would not hesitate in bringing in a number of their potential 'cast offs' at the moment.

30 Apr 2015 12:51:35
Higuain, Sneijder, Huntelaar, Garay have all done well since, I wouldn't call them cast offs, just that club is a merry-go-round

30 Apr 2015 13:51:45
add robben to the list

30 Apr 2015 05:24:21
Completely agree with you 007 on the show of financial power point. I don't think he was a player the club watched too often, because he isn't what we needed last summer, and especially where we have had him playing. A few big games out of him, and the world took too much note. Last season i'd have paid 60 to take Modric from Madrid instead of Di Maria.

Put me in either the Madrid or Barca teams and i'll get you some assists and the odd goal haha! I do think he is a great player, but do I see him here in the long term? No. If he doesn't go this summer, then it will be next. Here's hoping he prooves us all wrong and is unbelievable for us in the near future.

I'm all for waiting to see next year, but if the option was presented to move ADM on and take Bale from Madrid, I would do much more than bite your hand off, i'd be taking the whole bloody arm.

{Ed007's Note - It's not a popular opinion but I always felt Bale was no better than playing a 100m sprinter, really all he had was speed/pace but he has shown he has a bit more at Madrid BUT nowhere enough imo to warrant the kind of money it would take to get him, what happens when he loses his pace, does he have the technical ability to change his game when it happens? I'm not so sure and again I think there is more important positions Utd need strengthened unless of course Utd could get Real Madrid to take ADM back as part of any deal.
I'd love to see Maro Goetze in a Utd shirt, but I can't see that happening any time soon.}

30 Apr 2015 14:36:29
Slipped my mind jred ;)

29 Apr 2015 18:16:47
Anybody care to have a guess at what may happen in the summer on the following. Degea stay or go. di Maria stay or go
Rsvp stay or go
Jones stay or go
Evans stay or. Go
Young stay or go
Rafael stay or go

29 Apr 2015 18:47:32
De gea - stay
Di maria - stay
Jones - stay
Evans - go
Young - stay
Rafael - go

29 Apr 2015 19:15:16
De Gea - Stay
DM - Stay
RVP - Stay
Jones - Stay
Evans - go
Young - stay
Rafa - go

29 Apr 2015 19:28:30
rafael goes, Evans goes, The rest are staying. Should offer dimaria to PSG for verrati and Matuidi. we have been sold a plum

29 Apr 2015 19:36:38
Agree with FZZ. I want RVP and ADM gone though, but I doubt it will happen.

29 Apr 2015 20:33:38
Is nani going or staying,rafel Evans,go,is di Maria going to get one more season to prove himself,I'd also let rvp go,lvg go or stay.

29 Apr 2015 20:35:22
beast
so you want rid of rvp rooney and di maria .
but you want to keep raf because a few years ago he looked a decent player under fergy

29 Apr 2015 21:07:35
Yes mate and Rb isn't as crucial.

29 Apr 2015 21:18:36
They can all go apart from de gea and young.
I can't see adm being much better next season but we might have to give him a chance. Though if psg want him then we can get verrati and matuldi off them!

29 Apr 2015 22:24:16
Still think De Gea may leave

29 Apr 2015 23:50:16
De gea - I think will unfortunately go.
Di maria - Can not see him going after 1 season.
Jones - Stay but I'm not convinced by him
Evans - Bye Bye
Young - Stay
Rafael - Time to cut our losses, too many injuries.

30 Apr 2015 00:00:50
Im quite surprised and worried how quick some have written di maria off. This season we've relied on possessiin football. Something that does not suit di marias game. We need to play the ball fast paced, great width and quick counterattacking which will happen once we are comfortable in defence and bring in another quick winger. i'm sure we'll see the best of di maria next season.

30 Apr 2015 00:47:32
Agree 100% with Herbie's predictions,good post

30 Apr 2015 01:07:12
De gea - stay
Di maria - stay
Jones - stay
Evans - go
Young - stay
Rafael - stay

29 Apr 2015 17:12:35
I really needed cheering up today. I don't normally but thought that I'd have a look at the lfc banter page and it did not dissapoint. One thread was discussing the best and cheapest place to buy rope to place around your neck. Don't go to b & q, Instead search the net for the cheapest. all tongue in cheek but I thought things on here were a bit negative but that page cheered me up a but for other reasons.
nice to see ed002 making a couple of comments. All the ed's pay a great service to these sites away from their more important job(s) I expect. We are all the richer for it who frequent these pages and a few need to remember their manners and search functions.

29 Apr 2015 14:00:37
I want to raise a question.

There is a divide on here still about Rooney and how best to use him.

We have played our best games with him as a striker, but is he good enough? Should be be playing deeper? For me he is one of our best players and ought to play - maybe even the side should be built around him so he can play his best week in week out. But what formation do you see him suiting best?

He has only ever broke the 20 goals in the EPL twice in his career with us - is that good enough for our main striker or is he better off playing behind a striker and linking the play?

In my opinion he is at his best playing somewhere between the midfield and striker. But that would mean dropping a central midfielder for him which LVG is unlikely to do. It's a real poser.

{Ed025's Note - a great No 10 for me fresh scores goals and can link the play, your best player by a country mile mate, but you have to keep him motivated by putting better players around him imo..

29 Apr 2015 14:54:35
If we manage to bring in a natural leader this Summer I would sell Rooney in a heartbeat.

The team has looked better without him in midfield. It's too easy for people to say we are playing better because he is up top, but it's really because he stops inhibiting our midfield when shifted out of the way - I would like to see how we play without him in the team as I think we will be better collectively.

I can barely think of any games where he has stood out in the past couple of seasons. Maybe Newcastle (when Tiote was missing).

I think that is the key. He is an above average striker (25-30 better than him off the top of my head), he is not technically good enough (passing), intelligent, or quick enough to play as a 10 and he doesn't deliver enough for such a key role in the team. He is below average in midfield and brings the rest of the midfield down when he plays there as well.

It is hard to judge fairly because of how poor we have been and frankly any striker would struggle with the service we provide. However he doesn't create for himself anymore, he is easily dominated by strong CB's and I don't think he deserves to start every week no matter what form he is in as he holds up our midfield when in there and I think we can by a better striker in the summer.

He is on too much money to be on the bench and we are in danger of falling into the usual trap of judging a player on what they could contribute rather than what they do.

Rooney had his day for me, he will break all records, but that is on account of what he did before and how much of a key role he takes up in the team - most half decent strikers given his game time for Utd would have done just as well.

{Ed025's Note - you never know what you have until you lose it beast, carried united for a number of years for me mate, and dont get sidetracked by his wages he is on the going rate for a player of his calibre..

29 Apr 2015 15:23:31
I appreciate that Ed, he has been a great servant but with players like Rooney they can often live off their past exploits for too long (not his fault of course, just easier to stick with him than make the tough call).

I am talking about his wages simply because I think we need a better striker if we want to win things again, he is a hindrance anywhere but upfront for me, so to have Rooney losing value and costing a fortune sitting on the bench isn't ideal, which is where he should be if we buy a better striker. (We will probably have RVP sitting there to for his last season as well, but that's another issue - Wilson?!).

It's obviously a bit of a gamble, but I think this is the summer we should cash in as he isn't as good as he used to be and we shouldn't be starting him just because of how good he was and who he is media wise.

If Rooney isn't sold then he will play as LVG has said, and I think we need better now especially if we want to be in the top 5 clubs in Europe.

{Ed025's Note - i dont think his sell on value will be as high as you may think beast, hes 29 and on massive wages so only a handful of clubs would be interested to be honest..

29 Apr 2015 16:40:00
IMO Fresh Rooney has only ever played 1 season as a 'main' striker and that's the year he got 20+ goals, most of which came in the box I also remember there being a lot of headers, on his day up top he's Shearer-esque, all the other years where he's notched around 13-18 goals he's been playing second fiddle to someone else whether it be RVN, Ronaldo, Berbatov or RVP he still gets there or there about the 15 goal mark plus a handful of assists.

I absolutely adored Rooney up until he handed that transfer request in and since then as a person I haven't really liked him but as a player I am still a massive admirer and I think he is still one of the best strikers in the league when played up top. His biggest downfall is his ability to play anywhere, if he was one dimensional I'm sure he'd have broken both our top goal scorer record and Englands years ago. You never saw Shearer or Henry getting dropped into midfield, maybe that's because they were so indispensable up top or whether they didn't have the ability, that's a whole new debate though.

Maybe in a few years people will realise his contributions to both us and England and he'll get the legendary status I feel he deserves.

29 Apr 2015 16:57:28
I think he hax been let down by the club nit bringing in top players 2010 onwards Until now. He has done an awful lot if work grafting for club and country and subsequently i don't think we have had the best out if him. His goalscoring record should be better. Whilst technically he's not brilliant his enthusiastic and gives his all fir the team.

29 Apr 2015 17:37:55
The only other two forwards on rooneys money(messi,Ronaldo) score around 5 times as many goals a season. Going rate it is not.

29 Apr 2015 18:20:32
You're right, Rooney's problem is his versatility and his willingness to be versatile. That really does give him a problem as managers feel they can play him anywhere.

I would love to see Rooney in a flexible front 3 again like he was with Tevez and Ronaldo, could we see Bale, Rooney and Depay?

But equally, would Rooney beind a top class striker be better?

The most likely out of the two is getting players for a more flexible and mobile front 3 with Rooney as the main striker and RVP/Wilson back up.

29 Apr 2015 17:56:35
The acid test is how many strikers would you pick ahead of Rooney worldwide? If your life depended on it I am confident 99% of people could name at least 10 strikers that would play better and score more.

Personally I would rather have at least 25 other players than Rooney, he was one of my favourite players, but for the past 4 years or so he has been mediocre.

We need to realise that if we want to be the best we need to have world class players in the vital positions - striker is one of those positions.

29 Apr 2015 19:57:32
beast
you just want a new shiny toy .
people watch a fancy name in a different league and find them exciting .
people wanted kagawa to replace rooney (player of the season in germany ) was poor for united .
ozil was a name everyone was shouting about a couple of years ago to replace rooney ( most assists in europe with madrid ) been very average at arsenal.

cows and fields you should be careful what you wish for.

30 Apr 2015 01:01:10
Beast wants to sell Adnan, Rooney and buy a new flashy striker who's definitely going to outperform Rooney in the Prem.

And he calls our manager clueless.

Footy manager stuff Imo.

29 Apr 2015 12:22:08
Brendan Rodgers, the verbal media gift that just keeps giving.

29 Apr 2015 11:49:01
Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid may be hit by FIFA with sanctions similar to that of Barcelona - I think we would definitely be keeping De Gea if that is the case!

29 Apr 2015 13:48:29
any info on why?

29 Apr 2015 17:03:36
Something about Signing minors.

29 Apr 2015 20:53:13
But they will appeal as Barca did, which will see them have one transfer window to do what they would within the next four.

I can't see them going to January 18 with Casillas and Bravo as their keepers, so either they a) Do everything they can to get De Gea, or b) Panic if we begin to hold out and go for another.

If they are hit with the ban, 002 would I be right in saying it will come into effect January 2016 after they appeal, giving them this summer window? Or does it take longer to come into effect?

They'll have a big window soon anyways, that's for sure. Reus/Muller/Alaba/Danilo/GK/Asensio and no doubt others could potentially be on their way. Could Bale be moved on cheaper to make these moves easier?

29 Apr 2015 09:56:21
To be fair to Hummels last night, Kagawa gave the ball away with a terrible attempt at a pass, and within 3 seconds of the ball leaving his foot, it had been played over the top, and Sokratis had lost his man. The yard advantage Lewa had on Sokratis wasn't relevant in the scheme of things. Criticism is a bit harsh me thinks

29 Apr 2015 10:44:53
If we hold out for a "perfect" defender we will never get one. Hummels has its faults but he is a very solid, leader defender who is in the mold of Vidic - exactly what we need.

29 Apr 2015 10:53:10
i wouldn't say he is anything like a vidic type player really

29 Apr 2015 10:55:58
hes far more composed on the ball than Rio, I'd say more like Terry.

29 Apr 2015 11:29:06
For me he is very similar to Pique. Alas Gerrard Pique if only we didn't let you go for buttons.

29 Apr 2015 11:49:29
I meant Vidic above, must have been my subconscious telling me he's more like Rio

29 Apr 2015 11:49:45
Why not Jred? He loves a battle, is strong, excellent in the air and very commanding and if anything, better on the ball.

29 Apr 2015 12:50:44
fresh
i honestly don't think he is anything like vidic .

29 Apr 2015 02:24:47
002 I looked at your page tinyurl.com/c6j7t2m ?} an left a message.

Not everyone needs to ask what they see in the papers for you to confirm. Maybe when we log in some users should have a pop up saying before asking please use the search function as repeated posts won't be published.

Or how about

Giving constant offenders infraction points leading to bans?

Here in Ireland Boards.ie use the infraction system and it's brilliant because all spam and nuisance posters are no more.

Ed002 like many I value your info and come here to see what info you have posted simply by searching ed002.

If others can't be arsed to do it then ban them

Respect and total appreciation to you 002
Regards
Reddevilfan

{Ed002's Note - It is not my page RDF, but a fan page, in the same way as Ronaldo probably has a fan page as well. We'll see what happens.}