21 Dec 2013 13:54:27
Can't believe the arrogance on this site at times which I believe is born from fans only knowing success.
United will be top by November they say, arsenal will drop of United will finish above Liverpool, they tell us week after week.
Yet here we are at Xmas with all the same problems.
Moyes was always going to take time to settle.
Our back 4 isn't great
Our cm is awful
Our wide men aren't good enough.
We are probably missing 2 top quality players and a couple of others.
And our tactics look a bit out dated.

So far this season there have been Better team's why should that change?
Why should United suddenly turn in to a great team while all others become poor?

Is it because we are United and we always finish 1or 2
?

1.) 21 Dec 2013
I don't know if this is a reaction after watching other teams play some great football but I'll have to agree with you anyhow. The worrying part for me is not the results but the type of football we are playing.

2.) 21 Dec 2013
Yeah you are right jred why don't these people just stop complaining and accept mediocrity we are only Man United not like we are a massive club or anything!

3.) 21 Dec 2013
It's called optimism and it's called supporting your team, it's not arrogance. If you have such little faith in your team that you believe Liverpool will finish higher than us then that's your prerogative. However I believe my team will accumulate more points than Liverpool this season. If you do not believe we will then that's your opinion, not fact. Us optimistic lads have just as much right to be on here as you pessimists.

4.) 21 Dec 2013
Jred

I am assuming you are referring to what I said down the page. If anything I have never been that bullish about this team and even last year believe City should have won the league if not for instability at that club. I am also not as pessimistic when we lose or drop points.

I never predicted points margin against any rivals or old foes:) I still believe a healthy united team with RVP, Rooney, Carrick is better than this liverpool team. We have had the misfortune of new management, injuries, awful schedule all arrive at the same time and hence why we are where we are.

Let's wait and see where we are in early/mid January and nothing to do with arrogance. I also see glimpses of some sort of form coming into the team with other players besides rvp and rooney.

I posted this the other day, out of 25 games this year rvp has started 8, we have won 7 and drawn one. That is an interesting stat and although I don't necessarily subscribe to stats, in his case I think it is relevant.

I also do agree that we need to bring in players in January and told 2 mids are on the way, with one being announced the first week of the window. so let's see if true.

5.) 21 Dec 2013
"Why should United suddenly turn in to a great team while all others become poor?"

Why have United 'suddenly' become a poor team when we won the league with the same squad just six month's ago? United do not have to become great, they need to get the confidence and belief back and rival teams (Arsenal/Liverpool) need to play their difficult fixtures for this half of the season, IE City & Chelsea like we already have. Both MU and Liverpool will drop points between now and the end of the season, I am confident that my club can drop less. That's not arrogance, that's belief. I believe we will get out of the rut we are in and I believe we will start to put some winning runs together.

6.) 21 Dec 2013
God created
Your actual one of the last it was directed at, I think you normally give a balanced view of all teams.
But read some of the replies above says it all really.
And it's the same attitude every week, people suggesting arsenal aren't title contenders but United are etc etc.

Imo city, Chelsea and arsenal have better players better managers with better tactics at the moment and are more than capable of finishing above us.
Liverpool for me for a number of reasons are capable of finishing above us, not saying they will but they are capable of it.
Does having what I think is a balanced opinion make me less of a United fan?
Or should I believe we are better than everyone else no matter what?

Syd
It's not optimism it biased blind faith

7.) 21 Dec 2013
Sydney, remind us how many points you said we would finish ahead of Liverpool. You know have revised that view but say. We will still finish above them. It's not about being optimistic or pessimistic but realistic. We have been generally poor this year and Liverpool, amongst others, have been playing well. There's optimism and there blind faith. As you know, I genrerally give the doom mongers a hard time, particularly the drama queens but right now, we are not in the game. To keep denying what your eyes tell you is plain silly. I'm with Jred

8.) 21 Dec 2013
Jred, agreed. I posted last week and I said the worst thing any club, team, manager can be is apathy.
I think some are expecting is to start tearing teams apart, when the truth, is we are a team who I have 6 or 7 excellent players but the rest are below average players.
I don't think Moyes's tactics have helped, and I don't think his training methods have either.
I don't expect Liverpool, city, chelsea or arsenal to be dropping too many silly points like we did against wba, Everton, Newcastle, Cardiff. Southampton.
So I think it is a battle for 4th spot at best, and I think that is highly unlikely outcome in view of the teams above us, who are all big teams with resources.
Things have changed. Other teams have strengthened considerably, brought managers who know how to win, while we have stagnated and brought in Moyes.
I don't think we can just buy a couple of players and be back to normal, the competition is greater and more wide spread. So winning the league every year is no longer a reality. I think if we are being honest with ourselves, we are the 6th best team at the moment. We have some very good individuals, but we're not playing as a team.
But the biggest positive is the quality of our youngsters, we really need to start playing these guys, enkangeme, Perreira, Wilson, Pearson coupled with powell, lingard. These have all got fantastic futures. If you're good enough, you're old enough.
So why do we insist on playing nani, young, anderson etc? I think the manager has got to be brave and start axing the deadwood we've got. It is disappointing to see these useless players playing week in week out, when there are so many excellent youngsters waiting for their chances.
Syd, as positive as you would like to be, we will not finish above Liverpool this year. That is the reality I'm afraid.

9.) 21 Dec 2013
Syd
Every year I've listened to Liverpool fans say this was there year and laughted at them, I respected the ones who said no where not good enough.

You believe this will happen but why blind faith?

United aren't a poor team but as I have said before one of fergys best achievements was winning the league last with this squad. I haven't seen anything that would change my mind.

10.) 21 Dec 2013
Can AJH and Jred please explain to me how it's 'blind faith' that I think MU will finish above Liverpool? There are 21 more games (63 points) after this one and there are eight points separating us and Liverpool (if we win today). They play City and Chelsea AWAY. We play Hull & Norwich AWAY. Liverpool need to come to OT.

So why is it blind faith to think we can overtake Liverpool? Utter nonsense and pure negativity.

11.) 21 Dec 2013
Jred

Same here as I find your views quite balanced and quite honest and in many ways agree with lot's of what you say. I got a lot of flack last year for not being the most optimistic guy when looking ahead :)

I think we are better than what most here think but it is drastically different to the United we are used to from yester years and that is what I believe most struggle with. I don't think besides city there is any outstanding team in the league.

I don't think this is a league winning team but still believe our first 11 are better than everyones but city and donjt agree with your view of chelsea and arsenal being better and would say we are on par with arsenal and chelsea. Where they have weaknesses we have strength and vice versa. It will all come down to injuries and form when the top teams play each other.

I think the January window is quite significant in terms of finding a couple of missing pieces and can make a big difference as the season goes on.

12.) 21 Dec 2013
Syd
Was it 20 points you said we would beat them by?
Remember we had this discussing 2 month ago and look where we are now Liverpool are top!
Same goes with arsenal how you can argue they are not title contenders and we are is beyond me .
No matter how well Liverpool play and how badly United play this year it's the same rubish and where are United where are Liverpool? You have been wrong all season .
United will be top by November 5, based on What?
United will be top by December based on what?
United will be top by Xmas based on what?


Tell me look at your post today have you give 1 football reason why over the next 21 games Liverpool will drop more points than United.
Or that arsenal will because your last argument was " they always do" .
What did you base your opinion that we would beat Liverpool by 20 points on?

13.) 21 Dec 2013
Whether SAF was managing or not is irrelevant Jred. It's still the same squad therefore those same players are capable of playing better.

14.) 21 Dec 2013
Syd, we have played 17 games and lost 5 of them. We bought 1 player in the summer who can't get in the team. Our older players are now even older. With the occasional exception, we struggle through games. Rumours are rife about RVP wanting off due to DM. Let's be honest, would we have won the league without RVPlast year? Possibly not. We now have him injured with niggles and allegedly unhappy.

Putting all that aside. if we were playing well and being unlucky then I would share your optimism but on the whole we are not. We lost at home to West Brom, to Everton, and to Newcastle. This ism about more than confidence. I respect be your view and love your optimism but I have seen nothing that says we will get back into the top 4 this year. I'd be delighted for us to go on a run and make me look foolish but after 17 games, we have lost nearly a third of them so the current evidence says something needs to urgently change.

15.) 21 Dec 2013
Syd
At the start of the season would you of though Liverpool would be top and United 7 by Xmas?
Imagine the stick you would of given a scouser if he had come on the site saying that . 20 points maybe.
But you would of been wrong!
Yet nothing you have seen over the past 4 month has changed your mind?
Blind faith .
You often get it wrong yet always think your right . Blind faith

16.) 21 Dec 2013
"What did you base your opinion that we would beat Liverpool by 20 points on?"

We finished 28 points ahead of them last season and our two squads are almost unchanged. I still do not believe Arsenal are genuine title contenders, just like I do not believe Liverpool are. I believe both will fade away and City will win the league this season.

17.) 21 Dec 2013
21 Dec 2013 17:17:04
NoMid Moyes knows who the deadwood is, not much he can do till next week. The main thing is trying to find buyers. 6 weeks ago who would have been interested in Young? Now scoring crackers in consecutive games might make a few desperate managers think. Hence playing them.

And you want to throw in a load of 18 year old kids? Into the pressure of a battle for top 4? Its too much for them. If their good enough their old enough you say, only none of them are good enough yet.

18.) 21 Dec 2013
Syd
R u that daft yes it's the same squad which for arguments let's say is as great as you think but the problem is has it got better especially after losing fergy because arsenal, Liverpool, city and Chelsea have.

You may be right but to dismiss teams like arsenal and Liverpool who are playing very well while your own team is not setting the world alight really is the most annoying type of fan.

19.) 21 Dec 2013
Tbh, I agree with syd. I don't see liverpool finishing above us. Even though they are eight points ahead I still believe we will finish 10+ points ahead of them. The only teams I see winning the league are utd chelsea and city with city being favourites, but with the way results have been going and the inconsistency of every team don't put utd out the race

20.) 21 Dec 2013
And you said Fellaini would be our Yaya Toure, do you still believe that Jred? I said he didn't suit our style of play and guess what? He doesn't.

Did YOU believe we would be 7th and and Liverpool would be 1st? Of course you didn't. It's not blind faith. I believe we will get our mojo back and we will finish above Liverpool.

21.) 21 Dec 2013
MrE

100% agree. No way he can play the best 11 with the fixture list and our young guys are not ready or good enough.

We are like the walking wounded at the moment with Welbeck now looking like he is out and Johny evans looks like he he might have picked up a knock and horrendous tackle on Hernandez and hope he is ok.

We should be congratulating the manager for playing guys like young which looks like a great selection given his last 2 games and not criticize him. We need the squad who by many opinions is one of the best in the league to show their worth and carry us until we get people back.

Kudos to Cleverly as I have not been his biggest fan but he has really played well the last 2 games when most needed.

22.) 21 Dec 2013
AJH

Chelsea was gifted a draw to wb at home. Fellaini has joined late and struggled for fitness and then has had injuries and not fit for selection. God knows there would not be many players with the current team if we judge them on their first 6 or 7 games.

I am not worried about the losses to everton, newcastle, wb as what is done is done and believe we will win the return fixtures with a semi available best 11.

I do agree we need a fully fit RVP because he is lethal when he is on form and different to anyone else we have in the squad.

I do also agree it is not about confidence but more about key players being available.

I hope rvp's groin injury does not turn into something more serious that requires surgery which is the case with many of them when they are serious.

23.) 21 Dec 2013
Syd
Clutching at straws again.
For about the third time I said last Jan Fellaini would move to a top team and play the yaya role .
But I've enjoyed winding you up I'm stuck with the kids and bored.

Out of all our arguments I really hope the one you finally get right is this.
Enjoy the site I'm finally of out for a pint

24.) 21 Dec 2013
"Syd
R u that daft yes it's the same squad which for arguments let's say is as great as you think but the problem is has it got better especially after losing fergy because arsenal, Liverpool, city and Chelsea have."

LOL, you call me daft yet you think losing 'fergy' makes our squad better or worse? That is a very dumb thing to say in itself. How can a manager of a club make a squad better or worse LOL.

I have never said our team is great, I have always said we are 2-3 top quality players away from being where we needed to be.

25.) 21 Dec 2013
I don't get wound up Jred. I am always a happy and positive person. I actually enjoy our discussions and I look forward to trying to decipher each of your posts. Enjoy your pint, and remember to drink responsibly ;)

26.) 21 Dec 2013
Lol this really is my last post.
I honestly don't enjoy them syd, you post your views as facts and offer very little football knowledge to back them up . Through this whole debate of arsenal United Liverpool your argument has been "I think it will happen so it will" or "it happened last year "
Have a look at God created or shappy or few others that actually back up there points with a bit of football knowledge.
Have a look at how many of the questions you actually answered rather than just give an other point of view .
Have we had discussion where u have actually been right?
Not that you will admit to being wrong;)

Although today I have honestly found the whole thing funny

Look forward to your snide remark and lasted statement
I will read it in the morning should brighten up my hangover.
Also there is no fun in drinking responsibly

27.) 21 Dec 2013
21 Dec 2013 19:19:05
Have to say i'm with syd.
I strongly believe we will finish above liverpool.
Its not that hard to see we have had a very poor start and theirs been excellent with suarez on fire. But we are starting to gain a little momentum, defence and mid starting to look stronger and more confident. If we can pick up another couple wins over xmas(more than doable) and add a couple signings in Jan (inevitable) and get carrick and rvp back then it all starts to look different.
Also we've played city away and chelsea. They have city and chelsea away next 2 games, have to come to old trafford and suarez will not stay at this level all season and there is also a very likely possibility he will serve a ban of some kind when things aren't going his way.
All points to a higher placed finish than them in my opinion.

28.) 21 Dec 2013
Jred, I guess we agree on something. There is no fun drinking responsibly.