Manchester United Banter Archive March 10 2014

10 Mar 2014 23:22:56
Did anyone watch the under 21s today Pearson, Pereira, were good as were others and Wilson was outstanding he bagged a hat trick in the second half, we have maybe an even bigger talent than Januzaj in Wilson he could be in two or three years time the best striker in world football and there is a few other good youngsters coming through, we do need players in the summer but I can see some thing amazing happening from the youth system

11 Mar 2014 00:06:50
Easy there mate. Not every player that scores a hat trick at U21 level is going to be the best striker in the world in two year's time.

As a matter of fact, I would be rather surprised if he becomes a frequent starter for us in the next 2 years. He looks a wee bit ahead of Welbeck at that age ( and Welbeck was very, very highly regarded here ) and has much more to his game than Macheda ( having similar finishing abilities is very high praise ).

I've watched a lot of youth games in the last 5 years, and apart from Morrison ( and arguably Petrucci upon joining, before his 5 year injury merry go around ), Wilson is the most talented. Up there with Januzaj, Pogba and co. The fact that he just turned 18 is also a big plus.

But he has Chicharito, Welbeck and Henriquez ahead of him since it can be argued that he has already overtaken Keane's spot. Still a very long way to go to dispatching Rooney/ Van Persie, and it's unlikely he will ever be as good

Mick1 I have watched Reserve football for more then ten years been to plenty of games and have watched Wilson first hand, he is not just good he is amazing and he is hard working off the pitch, he came back after illness to score that hat trick he is prolific at every level he has played and is much better and way faster than Macheda in fact he would be the fastest player at the club and by some distance and I am shore he will be of Rooneys or Rvps standard which is world class, I thought the same about Januzaj and and I also think Pearson and Pereira will be making the step up at some point in the next two years, there is talk round the club Wilson will be in the first team squad next year no loans for him he because the club see him as a world class talent which he is

Don't think we have to knock posts when people are taking the time to watch the youth team do you?

Its great to see someone being positive and looking to the future!

I get there myself as often as I can and as always we have got a couple of tasty players out there.

Be interesting to see how they pan out. With all young players its only time that will set them apart but fingers crossed.

Katef, he's a great talent no doubt but playing in the u21 league is much difference obviously, as you'd know. It's the step up that a lot of players have failed to do well enough to convert their potential. It usually either makes or breaks a bright youth prospects career, especially if it's not done right by the club.

Yeah, watched it last night, Kate. Very impressed with young Pearson. It's the first time I've really sat and watched his performance, and he's a real pocket rocket. All action and no fear in him.

Wilson didn't really get a sniff in the first half, but when he does get a chance - wow! His first goal was stunning in it's simplicity - good first touch and hit it early. The keeper was diving after the ball flew past him.

Perreira's ball control is mesmerising, but he flitted in and out. Though to be fair, he's still probably getting used to the step up.

Honourable mentions to Varela - as exciting a full back as I've seen in a wee while, though needs to make sure his attacking verve doesn't come at the expense of his defensive duties, and Janko and Rothwell. Some of the attacking moves down the right were great to watch.

Wilson is an amazing talent. Best of the current crop. If he develops properly and is handled well, we will see him becoming one of our top players in 4 years' time.

I have no doubt that if the likes of Pearson & Wilson were at Arsenal, people would be raving about them now.

Apologies if I sounded condescending and/or appeared to be insulting. What I meant to say is that despite his obvious potential, I do not see him becoming as good as you say in just 2 years.

He is superior, or equal, to any talent we have produced in recent years bar Morrison, but he has not yet reached the excellence and consistency of Januzaj at U21 level ( despite better statistical numbers).

I think he has the potential to be a first teamer here, maybe even a starter, but he will need plenty of time, and prove to be equal or superior to 2 world class players, and a reasonably talented and more experienced 2. He also has Henriquez, who is more likely to get starts next season and with Powell and Lingard in need of starts, it makes it all the more difficult.

Fact is, I think Rothwell will end up getting more games in the next couple of years ( unless of course we end up buying 2 youngish midfielders ).

Having said that, I think he will get a couple of loans, and shine at any club lucky enough to get him.

10 Mar 2014 22:01:41
If we could cover the three squad places (LB, CB, CM) we desperately needed, with only English players, who would everybody's choices be?

I would go for
lb luke shaw

the cb 1 is tricky gary cahill

cm adam lallana

I'd go for;
LB: Baines/Shaw - Both top draw.

CB: Shawcross - best English CB imo.

CM: Gerrard - brilliant in the scholes role this season.

Shaw, Cahil, Barkley/Wilshere.

I'd guess some may prefer Baines to Shaw but highly doubt too many would disagree with Cahil and pick someone other than Barkley or Wilshere, other than maybe Henderson at a push if he sustains his current form.

Shawcross? FFS Moon.

Quie1989, I omitted Lallana purely as I considered him a bit more attacking than than what we need but would be delighted if we signed him.

Shawcross and Fellaini in the same team? hmmm

Shaw, Cahill & Wilshere without a doubt. When we were originally linked with Cahill I thought it would be an awful move and I was delighted to see him go to Chelsea - he is now one of the best in the EPL for me, I think we missed a trick there.

Moon

Are you taking the piss or what gerrard and shawcorss?

Shaw, Cahill and Lallana.

Ben80
i just think with fellaini he would be perfect busy type midfielder we need and very creative would love to see us get him in the summer

GAGUS & GCU.

Shawcross is a top CB, a real old fashioned warrior type. If he played for a bigger club he'd be an England regular.

Gerrard has been sensational this season, it's the best season I've seen him play since the 09/10 before the WC.

He's doing for Liverpool exactly what scholes spent the last few years doing for us. pulling the strings.

Despite the fact I can't stand Liverpool I don't think many English CM are better than him.

Moon

The guy making Liverpool tick is Coutinho. Gerrard has a good deadfall delivery but he is no Scholes mate when it comes to passing the ball. I am not saying this because of him being a scouter but the truth. If the scouters get an injury to Coutinho they will struggle.

10 Mar 2014 18:26:45
Mata has come out and said that 'he is not a proper winger'. The way we played against West Brom hopefully will suit in better because that was looking more like a 4-2-3-1. I think everyone will improve when we get in a proper midfielder. Mata needs to be playing in and around that number 10 position though, that's where he wants to play and is where he will be happy.

He's not an out and out winger like Valencia. That's why with players like Mata and Adnan, you need very good fullbacks to provide the real width. Fullbacks like Moyes had at Everton (Coleman and Baines), like Rafael was like on Saturday and what Evra used to be like.

Things will improve dramatically with a new left back and a central midfielder. Mata and Adnan will be even better when we can get regular width and quality fullbacks on both sides.

Nope Syd, Mata specifically said that he wants to play in the number 10 role, and that he feels far more comfortable when he plays in the centre. Sounds to me like Mata is happy to play on the right for the rest of the season but he expects to be a number 10 in the long-term.

It will be interesting to see next season if Moyes keeps giving Rooney a free role behind the main striker or if he pushes him up front and sells RVP. One things certain, a lot a players are being limited this year so Rooney can play the way he wants.

Danny, Van Persie with Mata behind him is much stronger than Rooney upfront with Mata behind him. Moyes will be making a major blunder if he sells RvP and moves Rooney upfront. We will not be any stronger next season.

Yes, it would seem that Mata does want to play through the middle. I'm not sure how this will all pan out. He did say in his interview that he likes to cut inside so starting wide by not as a winger would be a good way to use him.

Danny, either that or Rooney's new salary will compensate for him moving to midfield next season? Although I have to say it's unlikely given the monster wobbler he threw about not wanting to play in midfield.

Quite a few clubs manage to play three mobile "Number 10's". ?

Sydney

Rooney is a lousy midfielder and I have no idea why people here think he can be a jack of all trades. He will lose the ball over and over once pressed by any decent midfielder.

He is a number 10 and does not like playing upfront as a lone striker because of the physicality of big centre backs.

He likes to roam around and have the freedom to drop deep. Our biggest issue with him being the lone striker is that he will not stay up there and when asked to do so can get marked out of games.

Shahram, I couldn't agree more.

Why does there have to be a fixed number 10. surely an interchanging roo, mata and adnan would be a lot more creative and harder to mark

We have to play with three number 10's as Ben says - that's the only way to keep Rooney & Mata happy.

To get the best out of Rooney, he needs to be played as a second striker. There is a bit of a difference between a second striker and a number 10. A second striker is someone like Del Piero, who can score a lot of goals and assist when needed, while a number 10s biggest strength is usually his passing and his vision. Here lies the difference between Del Piero and Totti. Del Piero is better at scoring goals, while Totti is more creative, but not as good as a goalscorer.

A second striker usually plays best when partnered with a physical specimen, who will run beyond the defenders, go wide when needed and push defenders back, giving the second striker more room to operate.

The best example of this in the league is Aguero and Oscar. Aguero is the superior goal scorer and a more destructive attacker, while Oscar is the better passer, and better at creating chances for others and helping out the midfield. Suarez is another example of a second striker while Kagawa, Mata Silva and Nasri are number 10s. Again, better passing, not as good goalscorers.

And you cannot use both, unless you push the number 10s wide ( Silva and Nasri ). Silva played his best season in a City shirt when he had just Aguero operating as a lone striker. Mata had Drogba and Torres ( only one of them starting ). Ozil had benzema/ Higuain, and struggled when both are playing.

All in all, a second striker can play equally comfortable as a front man, but will struggle in a deeper more creative role ( again, Del Piero ) and Totti did not really play his best football in an Italy shirt where he was moved a bit to the left.

Unfortunately for us, Van Persie cannot play with a second striker. He is not someone who can move wide, bully the defenders, push them back or even run beyond them. He is suited to play as a front man, which is where he had his best season ( granted, his only injury free one ) for Arsenal, where he equaled Henry's goal tally. And last season, Ferguson made Rooney drop further back than usual, allowing Van Persie more freedom. Now, Rooney is playing further forward, thus limiting Van Persie's role in the team. We will never see the best out of both players.

Now looking at Rooney's best seasons for us, we can see he played as an out and out striker in 2009 and scored a career high, or in 2012, where he had Chicharito and Welbeck pushing defenders back with their pace and allowing him more room to operate.

He also played reasonably well when partnered with Berbatov, who is a fine second striker himself. Rooney had to move a bit further up the pitch and play as a striker, while Berba dropped back a bit.

So, all in all, Rooney is either a second striker or an out and out center forward. He can do a decent job as a number 10 because he has a good engine on him, but will never be a world class number 10. Van Persie plays as a number 9 with freedom to drop back, thus making it nearly impossible to get the best out of the 2 . both of them need players to either create room for them ( Rooney ) or to create chances for them ( Van Persie and Rooney ).

Now, on paper, the partnership does not work. I thought they do not complement each other from the beginning, but I thought that 2 world class players can/will adapt. Suarez and Sturridge do not work on paper ( though they complement each other better than our current bunch ) but they adapted to make it work. I thought the same would happen to Rooney/ Van Persie, but the inevitable clash of egos came to the fore.

Now Sydney said more than once that Rooney playing off of Van Persie is the way forward. I beg to differ and both the tactical and real arguments prove they do not work to their best together. With Sir Alex, Rooney played as a number 10 to get the best out of Van Persie, while under Moyes Rooney is in his favorite position, and Van Persie is struggling.

The way forward for me was to drop Rooney, and sell him at the end of the season, and use Van Persie as an out and out striker with 3 attacking midfielders behind him. But, from Moyes' view, Rooney is the star man at the team. Considering he is younger, stronger, faster and works harder than an injury prone aging Van Persie, it does make a bit of sense ( even though I consider Van Persie a superior striker, Rooney's qualities outweigh Van Persie ).

So I think it's very reasonable for us to expect Van Persie will be off this summer ( hope Juve or a team of similar ilk ) would be his destination and despite losing a world class player, the team will be better for it.

We might end up replacing him with Cavani, whose pace, power, and ability to push defenders back would make him an ideal partner for Rooney but Mata, kagawa ( crossing fingers ) and even januzaj might struggle because of it. So I say go out and do everything we can to buy one of the german wonders ( Reus and preferably Draxler, with Max Meyer a decent less expensive option ) or promote Lingard to add more pace to our technical attacking 3 ( Mata, Januzaj and Kagawa ) when needed and play Rooney up front with Welbeck, Henriquez and maybe even Wilson as choices for cover ( I would not mind losing Hernandez tbf. He seems like a genuinely nice, down to earth, religious person and deserves to go to a team that will cherish him/ play him more than we do, and same for valencia ).

None of the options in the attacking third are undroppable especially for squad rotation. Mata would warrant a starting place, but resting him to give a chance to the likes of Powell is not unthinkable, and he seems like a down to earth guy intelligent enough to understand that he is not being dropped because he's not rated by the manager, but because a young player deserves some experience.

Januzaj and Kagawa have been squad players this season, and would relish a more important role, but they would also expect to be dropped for squad rotation/ tactical reasons. Zaha, Lingard, Draxler hopefully and maybe even Janko would come in when a more pacy/ direct option is needed.

Draxler is of course a world class talent, and will expect to play most weeks. But having 4 frequent starters in the front attacking 3 will ensure that they are all given plenty of opportunities with 3 additional squad players ( Powell if he does not go out on loan, Lingard same, Zaha and maybe keep one of Valencia, Young and Nani until said players are ready for a first team role).

Draxler would start frequently on the left, Mata often through the middle, Januzaj often to the right ( which is where his long term future should be imo. We get the most out of his ability on the ball and creativity that are limited on the left ) while Kagawa would either start ina narrow position on the left, or through the middle with one of Mata/ Januzaj on the right in a narrow role. The football this bunch would be able to play is magnificent, and with Rooney dropping back at times pushing one of said players forward ( in the middle of moves ) ensures we get the most out of their goal scoring abilities ( Kagawa, Mata and Draxler have brilliant goal scoring records for their previous clubs and Januzaj will develop his finishing ) and we keep Rooney happy by involving him in the play. His ego would also be boosted by the fact that he is the star man, leading the team from the front and everybody is working to get him to score goals ( he is not a very brilliant man, and keeping him happy as a striker should be a relatively easy task ).

Such attacking options would need a deep lying midfield two to sit back and cover the fullbacks when needed, but would also offer a lot of protection for said midfield ( despite the fact that none of them is defensively sound, the sheer numbers in midfield would limit the space for opposing teams to function ). Fellaini would most probably be the most consistent choice selection in midfield. he is a good tackler and good header of the ball, and his physicality would ensure he is capable of nullifying the opposing attacker, at least until the full backs get back in place. He has the ability to carry the ball forward and give the attackers a helping hand when a more physical player is needed too.

These players' passing qualities makes it less important for us to get a very creative Pirlo type midfielder. We just need midfielders who can get the ball to them quickly enough for them to use the open spaces. People have their doubts about Kroos and his defensive qualities, but we should not forget that he has mostly played as a number 10 in previous seasons which is why he never really had to defend. But he is a very capable tackler and a magnificently intelligent footballer, showing he can play as a box to box midfielder and as a deep lying forward on more than one occasion. Plus with our future lineup, and with so many good passer, we can expect to have very good possession stats, insuring we would not need to defend as often as we do now, but we need to hassle the opponents off the ball.

Not to mention that in a similar formation, we can just as easily use another defensive/ box to box midfielders next to Fellaini ( who will be first choice next season imo ) making Axel Witsel a realistic partner. They would act as a double pivot ( similar to their performances for belgium where they have been very solid ) and Witsel is better on the ball than Fellaini and can join the attack to an even greater impact. His pace would make sure we are not caught on the counter especially if we play a higher defensive line.

Carvalho is another option but I do think we'd be a bit short on technical ability in midfield if we use him, but with the fulbacks pushing forward creating passing options, that might be such a big miss. Cleverley, Fletcher and Carrick would hopefully be just squad players, and they all would function well in such a system. Cleverley would have people to pass to, Carrick would be the dlp sitting back, covering the fullbacks and spraying intelligent passes around the pitch, and Fletcher who would make a decent double pivot with one of Fellaini/ Witsel.

When it comes to the defense, there are plenty of options for left back. Shaw is good on the ball, defensively sound and very quick. Too expensive imo.
Rodriguez is a different beast, tall strong, quick and good on the ball, his ability to cross makes him a must-buy for Moyes.
Sandro is the most attacking minded of the bunch, and he has a magnificent skillset.
Moreno is an outside option, but he seems to be Madrid bound.
Coentrao is most probably the safest option, but there are more talented options out there.
My personal favorite is Lyvin Kurzawa. I never mentioned him in the past because we,, he plays for Monaco. They would not want to lose their most consistent and arguably talented player. But he has a brilliant attacking return ( 5 goals and three assists this season ), rarely if ever gets dribbled/ outpaced, tends to lose the ball in attacking areas, but that can be ironed out and will learn to known when to attack. He still does not pick his moments well, but it's clear he is very capable at both ends, and his attacking instincts would not go amiss in our hopefully narrow future system. He recently said that we are his dream club, and offering Chicha/ Nani for Monaco would be tempting, especially with them trying to raise their profile world wide and Chicha/ Nani are reasonably high profile players.

In central defense, Garay is the most realistic option, and with his positional intelligence and pace, he would ensure we are not caught on the break often and partnering him with Jones would bring the best out of both ( Jones' pace while running back and tackling ability would complement garay ).
Vermaelen seems like an option according to some reports, but I'm not sure Arsenal would like to lose 2 captains to us in the space of 2 years. He is a reasonably good defender despite his occasional brain fart and is quite vocal and experienced. His tendency to get injured would not be too destructive for us since we have 3 other defensive options all needing opportunities.
My favorite though would be vertonghen. His ability to play at left back would also give us cover for any left back that might come.

So to recap.
Attack: Draxler ( 37 mils ).
RVP, Young, Valencia, Chicharito, Macheda out for about 40 mils.

Midfield: Witsel/Kroos/ Gundogan ( 20-35 mils )
Out : Anderson ( 5 mils )

Defense: Kurzawa, garay ( 40 mil )
Out: Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Buttner ( 4-5 mils) .

It would make for a net spend of around 60 million, which would, in theory, leave us in a better position financially and in terms of the squad quality should Moyes fail to get us competing next season ( a top 3 finish is a must imo ) We would also trim down the wage bill significantly.

And then we can concentrate on blooding in the youngsters, knowing there is enough quality is the squad to give them opportunities.

We can also promote/ Loan out Petrucci ( hopefully to the eredivisie), Lingard, Zaha ( it would mean he does not really have a future here, but we need to seel him for a decent price ), Varela, Vermijl ( maybe to a premier league team thia time around, or as cover for rafael ), Powell ( premier league ), Rothwell, Henriquez ( championship/ bottom premier league imo ), Lawrence ( another championship), Will Keane, and plenty of others.

So we do not need to spend 200 mils to improve the squad. With the right purchases, we can keep some money as back up if Moyes fails and we need to give the new manager ( who would then have a very young, very capable team on his hands ) some funds to buy the payers he sees as musts.

High defensive line, defensively sound midfield, attacking fullbacks, technical playmakers and a free scoring striker. Also young, and ever improving team.

What do you guys think?

Mick
On Rooney and rvp I disagree I think on paper it does work how ever I don't think the partnership has had a good run , once they get a few games together one gets injured.


The only issue I have with rvp is that it really is all about him, you rarely see rvp form a partnership with an other player . He played well with song at arsenal but that was because they operated in different areas of the pitch and songs job was to feed rvp often with long balls over the top.
But when you are playing with one up top in a 4-3-2-1 the role of the 1 is very important, if it's a rvp type player the whole team play is about creating chances for one player. But I think when the 1 up top is a Rooney type more of a focal point tasked with bringing people into the game it gives the team more options.

Rooney/Rvn
Rooney/Hernandez
Rooney/berb
All worked IMO I also think kagawa best games have come playing off rooney.
I think rvp/Rooney will come good

{Ed004's Note - Great post from Mick1 a lot of effort put in. I reckon this summer we will see very few big names leaving the club as we are already losing Vidic, rio, Evra and most likely Giggs, so I can't see RVP or Rooney going. My thoughts are, that if we sign a more capable midfield say Carvalho along with Gundogan/Kroos and a cb who is quick and an attack left back do you still think it impossible to play RVP and Rooney in the same team. Essentially a 4222 formation with Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj, new signing?! Playing behind Rooney. Push up and crowd out the midfield with the 2 behind the strikers playing centrally very attacking full backs to push forward and press higher up the pitch. Rooney can drop into midfield when we are struggling.}

10 Mar 2014 14:54:25
Rafael has come out and said attack should be the only way and the team needs to stop sitting back worrying about the other the and just do waht we do best. Well said. let's hope the formation and the second half performance we had at the weekend is what we have for the rest of season. If so 5th is a cert, and who knows 4th could start to look more amd more possible. let's smash the scousers steamroller olympiacos and just motor on through till the end.

10 Mar 2014 12:55:45
just reading kroos comments just can't help but think he just trying for better wages

plus I have been trying to think of top class cb targets that we might be going for but there just doesn't seeem to be the quailty that there was let's say 6-8 years ago
dont get me wrong there is a couple of world class players but at clubs who are unlikely or need to sell

so eds who would be the most realistic targets for united in defence
thanks

{Ed007's Note - Read through the posts to see Ed002's notes about defenders.}

10 Mar 2014 12:21:08
Evening guys

2 things one football related one not,

Kroos has come out and said anything is possible regarding a move to the premier league, but I believe he is just hinging at a new deal with bayern

Secondly, my mrs is in labour as we speak!

Congrats Unitedlad!

Grats hope it goes well.

Keeping up to date on here even during labour, DEDICATION! Best of luck mate and buy the little one a shirt.

Congratulations lad, I seriously hope all goes well for u mate

Good luck mate. Hope all goes well. Should have a little one here just in time to see his/her first United win against the scousers :)

10 Mar 2014 14:49:15
Very Much appreciated lads
Thought I'd let my united family know

his united shirt is already bought and hanging up ready for Sunday!

Congratulations, lad. Going to be the start of a very big week for you!

Enjoy :)

Congrats mate, how about Thurman for a boy or Gertrude for a girl? Joking of course :)

All the best mate. Hope it all goes well!

Congrats m8. Although I wouldn't advise you to tell the missus your on here posting.

10 Mar 2014 17:05:01
Thanks again lads!

All the best matey. My Mrs was in a 3-day labour with our first during the August 2013 window and this website was the only thing that got me through the hard parts when I needed a breather. Let us know how you get on.

10 Mar 2014 09:51:59
Had a very nice relaxed weekend away from all the stress and technology of modern life. Delighted to hear about the result? Did we play as well as the result sounds? Anyway, I've heard good things apart from RVP. You have to remember though that he is having a poor season but is still our top scorer and he is probably playing through the pain. We can't say for sure whether he is happy or not, but if he isn't, and we can replace him with Cavani then I would. In fact I would probably snap off PSGs hands if they offered him even if we has a happy RVP.

Thoughts?

I don't understand the complete unrest with RVP - this guy is a world class striker - this time last season he was leading us to the title.

There seem to be problems with him in the dressing room/ his attitude doesn't look the same but this isn't the same united - Moyes doesn't know what tactics to play and that is pulling the team all over the show.

Why sell him? he's having a poor season? compared to last season. yes but he's still our top scorer - we are better with him than without him - we would be mad to sell him.

I wouldn't sell him unless we had Cavani, Falcao or Benzema in the bag. I love RVP, he was instantly one of my favourites but if he is not happy then it is not good for both the team or him. I'd be sad to see him go but sometimes you have to let players go if they want out.

Well Fresh Mata and Jones were very poor first half, much better second. Apart from our own defensive errors we handled West Brom very easily. Second half we were much better. Fellaini's movement, into space, off the ball was great, hope it rubs off on others.
Really hope we stick with this formation now.

Watched Inter V Torino Nagatomo was average and Freddy Guarin, who some have linked with us, was very poor.

You don't sell your best players, you try to get the best out of them.
On this site there seems to a train of thought that as soon as a player hits a bad patch of form we should forget how good the player actually is, sell him and replace him with some foreign super star, who never has a bad game.
Rvp has been out injured once he gets back match sharp he will be fine

This time last season RVP was not leading us to the title, he had a great first half to the season then dropped off to the levels we are seeing now - it coincided with Scholes playing less. It's too easy to say he was great all of last season, he simply wasn't. Formidable up until Xmas no doubt, but afterwards, hmm.

He is getting goals but he is rarely in games, he does very little at the minute but this has been the case for the past 12 months for the most part, this would normally be ok but one up front means we need a bit more from a striker than scoring now and again or assisting from set-plays.

I'm concerned about this fitness and his work ethic, he isn't mobile enough in my opinion and he is obviously having some problems with the new regime and certain players.

RVP has a face like a smacked arse he isn't happy with the training I think.
I would prefer him to stay and be happy .
Rumour I heard from an "ITK" said he has agreed to go but join a side out of the PL, United refusing to sell to any PL side

Lets hope he comes around and starts to enjoy playing for us like last season

I don't think Van Persie will be sold this summer. I think we have too many other areas to improve this summer and replacing Van Persie would be an inconvenience that we don't need. When he has a year left on his deal we may decide to cash-in, but I doubt this summer he will be sold even if he wants to be sold. Van Persie is a goal machine, why would we sell our best striker? If there's any player who could score a goal a game, it's Van Persie. On paper Van Persie and Rooney should be a frightening attack, last season Rooney was p!ss poor, this season Van Persie has struggled with injury, let's hope next season they can form a formidable partnership.

I'd give all the time in the world to get fit, but if he doesn't like the staff and isn't happy then that's harder to overcome jred.

And thanks for the match report, not seen it yet. Don't rate Nagatomovone bit.

RVP seems to think of himself as bigger than the club and is too mouthy. Fergie would not have put up with this. Apparently he was shaking his head yesterday with the substitution, to me things like that are not on. Even if you are disappointed to go off you shouldn't show it. I hope he can change his attitude as I don't think he will out last the management.

Did you see the celebration when Jones scored? Wasn't RVP leading it? At times he looked frustrated but he should be if he isn't playing well, at least he was throwing himself into challenges and looking interested.

I agree 100% with jred's post, when a player hits bad form loads on here think we should sell the player, it is ridiculous.

Beast, what would YOU do if you were isolated upfront? What could you offer? What do you expect Van Persie to do? He's a word-class striker, he's not a magician. If he doesn't get the ball, he cannot do what he does best. It's simple really. If we had a better midfield we would get the best out of him. I think we will see a better Rooney and Mata too.

Surely it's safe to assume that RvP is mainly frustrated because he knows the team is far from the best in the league, yes there are good players but for him he hasn't got many years left at the top I don't think he's liking the idea of being involved in a "transition". We'll see a much happier RvP if our form improves towards the end of the season and also depending on which midfielders we can bring in during the summer.

Fresh, are you serious? A player unhappy at being taken off. Who would have thought. "Mouthy" says who? Where is all of this coming from? "thinking he's bigger than the club" again where have you gotten that from? Did you get all of this info from a substituted player shaking his head?

I want to see a fit and firing RVP again as there aren't any better. I hope that we spend the summer sorting out the midfield and investing our time into signing Kroos and Shaw which would go a long way to fixing the midfield and the defence. Also liking the sound of Vermalen - always liked him.

Fresh
It's nothing new, rvp moaned through out his arsenal career and through out his international career, I think it's a Dutch thing.
Last year was the first year I've seen him happy but we won the title and he was injury free and scoring goals for fun.
This year the team aren't playing well he's been injured and isn't playing at his best, I'm glad he isn't happy.
Once he is match sharp I don't think people will be as happy to sell him.
Mind you some people seem to get board with the players we have and just want to buy the latest big name

Jred, I agree completely with what you're saying, but I just have a horrible feeling he'll be off in the summer.

I seriously hope not, though.

Sydney - did he or did he not have a sharp decline in form during 2013 and has the form of 2012 been sustained for more than 2 games since? He has been playing this way for 12 months now. I agree our midfield is not very good, and he lacks support. However, he isn't mobile enough to lead the line for our current crop of players. He is on a different wave length and do you replace 8 or so players to get one (injury prone) striker to play better or do you take out that player to focus on the strengths of the team and try and lift the total performance?

Just because RVP is a great striker in the RIGHT team, he isn't doing much now and hasn't for 12 months aside from score now and again. We lack a Scholes and we lack pace on the wings (final ball), RVP needs space and he has none when we play such a stretched game and he isn't fully fit. We are too slow for him and lack the creativity/movement around him.

I love RVP but he is no longer suited to this Manchester United team - the question Moyes needs to be thinking about is, is it worth building a team around RVP or is it better going in a different direction with his nect acquisitions? His age, visible/hearsay petulance and injury problems are all things that don't add up to a long time plan for me.

Furthermore you shouldn't see a UTD players shaking his head as he comes off the pitch - it shows disrespect to the Manager, Evra told him as much and he is just feeding all the negativity. Of course he is going to celebrate the Jones goal he is still a passionate player, but he has lost faith in the Moyes plan and those around him - time for him to be moved on as getting that faith back isn't worth the journey if you ask me. 3 years younger and maybe it would be, but not now and not now Rooney is back to being the main man. It's sickening but it's a fact.

Steviek
He might leave at the end of the season after all he walked out on arsenal but that's a different argument to the he should be dropped/sold one.

11 goals in 15 league games is a good return in my book and people want him dropped or sold .
The lads just come back from a injury and isn't even match sharp yet.

He might leave but I hope he doesn't

StevieK, it seems Rooney and his past actions have gotten MU fans paranoid. As soon as a player looks unhappy, the media are on it and he is being sold. Whenever Van Persie has been fit, he's started. Moyes didn't want to sell Rooney and Rooney is still here. If Moyes wants Van Persie then why would be sell him? Like I said there is too much to do this summer without adding this mess to it, I think he will be forced to stay even if he doesn't want to. And there's no evidence to suggest he wants to leave.

Beast, Van Persie prolifically scores whether he's playing at a 7, 8 or 10. The problem with Van Persie is the service he is getting. I wouldn't say Van Persie had a sharp decline at all, I would say that he didn't get the service he was getting at the start of the season. I would say he isn't getting the service he deserves this season either. He has missed a couple chances in the past ten or so games, but they are only highlighted because he hasn't had many opportunities. Give him five chances a game, like our previous strikers had the luxury of and he would get an hat-trick.

I'm no drama queen when it comes to media speculation, lads, just a gut feeling. I can't back it up with anything concrete.

I agree, jred - far too much fickleness on this site when it comes to our players, and I wouldn't dream of selling the fella. Like you said, the Dutch are a very plain-speaking, forthright people, who tend to tell it like it is in interviews.

I'm just hoping the emphasis on Wayne from Moyes, isn't to the detriment of RVP's position at the club. Keeping them both happy at the same time, seems to be a job in itself.

StevieK, it's easy to keep Rooney and Van Persie happy, give Rooney a pay-rise and and promise him the captaincy and he's happy to play in the hole, let Van Persie train his own way, bring in better wide players (Mata and Adnan), buy a top midfielder, allow him to play upfront on his own and he will be happy. In all honesty I think a number of players were not happy with all the change at once. I imagine certain players are now allowed to train their way. As the older players should be allowed to do. let's see if anyone wants to leave when we sign a worldie or two in the summer.

I still don't think Wayne's touch, positional discipline and vision is good enough to be a number 10. Just my view.