20 Aug 2013 16:58:56
Big big mistake if we go in for Baines at anything above £10 million. He is a left back for god's sake and the one we should be getting is Shaw from Southampton who looks the real deal and is about 10 years younger. I just don't rate Baines that much higher than Mad Paddy.
1.) 20 Aug 2013
Shaw will only move to Chelsea and that will happen next summer or the summer after. Evra of 2007-10 was better than Baines. Baines is light-years ahead of Evra now. If you want MU to improve the team, then Baines replacing Evra is a very good start.
Another thing to think of is RvP currently takes our corners. He should be in the box and Baines would allow that to happen as his delivery is top quality.
Sydney!
2.) 20 Aug 2013
Luke Shaw would be a much better option IMO. The lad has bundles of talent; and he would be a very good understudy to Evra. That said, I do like Buttner.
3.) 20 Aug 2013
Baines doesn't represent value Sydney, he's a quick fix to a long-term problem. Considering the state of our midfield, overpaying for an aging left-back makes even less sense.
4.) 20 Aug 2013
Sydney Haines light years ahead of evra? Are you serious? He is worth 10m at most and no way is he that much better. Better maybe maybe not but certainly not at 20m. Alba who is actually light years ahead of both only went for 12m euros. Waste of money strengthen our midfield and left wing first? Left back isn't a problem really with Evra, Buttner and Fabio!
5.) 20 Aug 2013
YeR I would also go for Shaw
Jred
6.) 20 Aug 2013
Rumpelstiltskin hits the nail on the head.
Why sign Baines now when we would need to replace him in 3 years time? He's only going to go downhill from here and is not that much better than Luke Shaw at the moment.
If we're going to spend money on a lb - I'd rather it be Shaw. Personally I hope Fabio can up his game to the same level as his brother. When the two came to the club Fabio was said to be the better of the two and were it no for us having Evra in the team during a crucial point of his development he would likely be one of the best young lbs in the world right now. I'm not sure if it's too late for him - but he is still young!
redseven
7.) 20 Aug 2013
Southampton are loaded right now, don't need the money, the boy is happy there and starts every game and when he leaves he is highly touted to be Chelsea's replacement for A Cole.
Shaw is pretty much the only LB I'd prefer over Baines but in my estimation it's almost an impossible transfer to pull off for the above reasons. Which is why I will be happy if we replace Evra with Bale, who is younger and much more effective in the final 3rd IMO.
£14-15m is a bit steep, but should we really care too much about that? Right now I'll be happy to see some money spent. And after CM I'd say this is the next most urgent area to strengthen.
8.) 20 Aug 2013
Redseven, why would Baines need replacing in three years? Just because Evra went to sh1t earlier than expected, it doesn't mean Baines will.
Luke Shaw isn't an option. He is a massive Chelsea fan and long term Cole replacement. Even Chelsea will have to pay through their teeth for him. He wouldn't be cheap. I think £20m+ in a year or two's time.
Sydney!
9.) 20 Aug 2013
Sorry Sydney but as I posted last night Shaw is far better value than Baines. At 29 I believe £12m is top price for his age and as a left back. However a good start is buying a top quality central midfield player and that is not Fellaini.
I agree with Rumpelstiltskin, Baines is a quick fix to a long term problem, but would also feel that as seen with Evra's decline Baines may also turn out to be a short term fix given the amount of work expected in that position.
10.) 20 Aug 2013
Red Man, I agree about Shaw, but he isn't an option. When he leaves Southampton it will be to Chelsea.
Baines is 28. He has a good five years ahead of him and by then we may have a LB in the academy that will take over from him.
Five years is a long time in football. Five years ago Ronaldo was a year away from joining RM. Baines would be a good signing.
Sydney!
11.) 20 Aug 2013
Sydney
On the rumours page you said Baines was worth an offer of £17m, sorry but that is madness and desperation, I would keep Evra if that was the fee and add the £17m to the Fellaini fee and aim higher in midfield. I wonder how Southampton would react to a £17m offer for Shaw. {Ed007's Note - They would laugh it out the door. Add another £8m and you would be MAYBE get them talking.}
12.) 20 Aug 2013
I never pay to much attention to " he's a massive Chelsea fan or arsenal fan" don't know the lad but if we agreed a deal with Southampton this summer and agreed to treble shaws current wage do you think he would turn United down because he's a Chelsea fan
13.) 20 Aug 2013
Sure I saw a stat somewhere about Baines getting the most assists in Europe last season. He is much less dodgy with his positioning at the back too. Paddy upgrade indeed.
14.) 20 Aug 2013
HoneyBadger
If we can get BALE for less than £15M then I would say yes! ;)
15.) 20 Aug 2013
Personally I would also prefer to sign Luke Shaw, but I think Alex Sandro or Felipe Luis may be more realistic options. They would both cost around £15 million but they are both young, fast, very fit, can cross the ball well and work hard and tackle well. Plus Porto are always happy to sell at the right price. Kloot I disagree about spending on a left back though. Every position is as important as any other.
16.) 20 Aug 2013
Jred, Shaw would reject the move and Chelsea would come straight in and gazump us. Like I have said he will replace Ashley Cole. It's going to happen. If ourselves or anyone else went in for then Chelsea will move. That's been made clear.
Red Man, Southampton are not poor, they want to sign Damiao and Lamela. It would take a mega offer to get them talking and he will choose Chelsea as he is a massive Chelsea fan. It is a none starter for more reasons than one.
We need a left back badly, Baines is the best available option who Moyes knows very well. He is suited to the EPL and has a great left peg. Will take corners and free-kicks. We will also be relying heavily on fullbacks for now on and other than Coentrao, he is the best option we have.
Why does it matter how much we spend? As long as other areas do not get sacrificed it shouldn't matter how much he costs. Baines, Fellaini & Cesc/someone similar would fix our main issues unquestionably.
Sydney!
17.) 20 Aug 2013
On the creative side Baines is light years ahead of Evra plus he looks after himself so he'd easily be good for 5 years plus. Whether he's worth 15m I have no idea but he would get many assists even though he is more of a defender than Evra
18.) 20 Aug 2013
Sydney -
Having been blessed with players like Giggs and Scholes we often take for granted the fact that most players tend to end their careers by the age of 32/33 (at least at the highest level). Full-backs and wingers especially so.
What makes Baines a good player is his ability to get up and down the pitch quickly - meaning that he's a great attacking threat without being caught out of position defensively. Once Baines gets past thirty his pace will begin to decline and he'll lose one of those elements of his game (defensively reliable or attacking threat) as a result of his inability to get up and down the pitch at the same rate.
Of course it's possible for players to adapt their games to compensate for their declining speed - but it's impossible to say whether Baines has a good enough footballing brain to do this.
Evra actually did this last season when deciding when to go forwards and when to stay back to great effect. Imo - he performed a hell of a lot better than the two seasons before. Not a patch on his best; but good enough.
I'm then looking at your figures. £18m for Baines seems a lot when you consider the following transfers;
Chadli - £8m
Paulinho - £17m
Capoue - £10m
Jordi Amat - £3m
Wanyama - £14m
van Wolfswinkel - £9m
Leroy Fer - £4m
ALY CISSOKHO - LOAN
Willian and Lamela (potentially under £25m each)
I appreciate that Baines has Premier League experience which these days counts for a lot - but the above are all younger and IMO either better or have the potential to be better/ more effective than Baines. Obviously hard to make too direct a comparison given they play in a multitude of positions - but that's my opinion. We need a good midfielder more than we need a new LB!
Taking Amat as an example - I watched him play three or four times for Vallecano last season and caught him a fair few times while he was at Espanyol too. He's by no means the finished article but has bags of potential and is only 21.
Now I personally can't see any way of justifying spending six times as much on a player who would potentially play for one third of the amount of time for the club (assuming Baines did play three/four years and Amat played to the same age).
It would be different if Baines was world class - but as it is he's just a very good player.
I know Shaw is a Chelsea fan - but there are plenty of players who play for clubs they do not support. If we offered him first team football this season I can't see him turning it down without at least considering it. As mentioned by somebody else; Southampton do not need money - but the shrewdness they have shown in the window so far makes me think they could do a lot with £18m (if that's really how much we are prepared to spend on Baines). A bid of that amount would again, I believe, be considered and probably be accepted assuming they had time to spent the money.
redseven
19.) 20 Aug 2013
Redseven, I do not think Baines is worth £18m. I think he's worth £15m, but would understand if the club paid £17m to get the deal done. There is simply no way of knowing that if Baines hits thirty his legs will go. Everyone's body is different. Baines should be good for five years if he is not overused like Evra was.
I have explained the Shaw situation above. He is not going to happen and £18m would be laughed at.
Goodnight lads.
Sydney!
20.) 20 Aug 2013
Syd
You can't possible know that .
I'm pretty sure you can't see in to the future .
Shaw will cost a lot of cash maybe Chelsea will have other priorities and won't want to spend big on a lb. In fact there are loads of maybes madrid might come calling or even Barcelona's who knows what the future holds.
so while you are looking in to your crystal ball and telling every one what will and won't happen remember you don't really know what's going on and are often wrong.
An awful lot can change very quickly in football.
Jred
21.) 20 Aug 2013
How has baines not been over used
Jred
22.) 20 Aug 2013
20 Aug 2013 22:34:52
@ Sydney
I have been reading this site for over 3 years and always appreciate your views. But atm you are continuing to champion cleverley who in my opinion should only be a squad player and would barely make the bench of any other top 6 team. Also you are pushing for the signing of an aging baines when we already have evra, fabio and buttner. You say you are all about giving the youth a chance so why not give buttner and fabio their opportunity? baines is worth 12m tops but this money could be spent better elsewhere like midfield.
23.) 20 Aug 2013
Sydney - I'm struggling to think of ANY player who hasn't lost both speed/pace after passing 30. Of course Baines could be different - but looking at the way pretty much EVERY OTHER PLAYER EVER has degenerated - I think it's fair to say that by 31 Baines will more than likely be a slower player than he is now.
I find it a little ironic that you've spent the summer saying that Rooney's age means he is on the decline in terms of ability and I even seem to recall you writing that once Bale's pace leaves him he would be 'average' (pretty sure you used the 30 years old mark as an indicator for when that would happen too). Given that Baines' game relies on his ability to get up and down the wing at speed - I find it odd that you're willing to defend him at such a high fee although guess it's down to your hatred of Evra?
Apologies about getting the figure wrong re Baines. I'm sure somebody mentioned £18m - but £17m is still a ridiculous amount.
On Shaw - where are you getting your information from? It's well known that he is a Chelsea fan - but other than that you seem to be basing your insistence that he is Chelsea bound on paper talk.
I've been told by a few people (although admittedly they worked for the same company) that both us and Chelsea made inquiries earlier in the summer but that the player wanted to stay with Southampton for the immediate future in order to play first team football.
Unless your source is his agent or from within one of the involved clubs - I fail to see how you could be so certain or know any more than that. I also doubt he would have ruled out a move to the premier league champions before a deal with somebody else is agreed.
redseven
24.) 21 Aug 2013
I saw a stat (cant remember so may not be entirely accurate) didn't he complete the highest number of crosses in the top 5 leagues last year. now, if you put a certain dutchman on the end of the majority of those then it adds another attacking dimension to our play. Will be similar to the Beckham/RVN partnership that formed where a number of his goals were from crosses. Baines would be a great signing and stil has 5 or 6 years left at the top.
Locky
25.) 21 Aug 2013
How do you think I know Chelsea's plans for Shaw? I read the editor's posts. He will replace Cole either next summer or the summer after. Chelsea are happy for him to be at Southampton right now getting more experience. I would choose Shaw over Baines, but it's not going to happen.
Baines doesn't rely on speed as he isn't particularly that fast, same with Evra. The difference is Baines is better at positioning himself and he drags his arse back to defend when he needs to instead of letting the LB do all of his defending work or Vidic/Evans. It would be nice to finally after three seasons to have a fourth defender in the back four, instead of three when Evra is playing.
Sydney!