Manchester United Banter Archive April 10 2013

10 Apr 2013 21:01:39
what do people think of lucas moura what a player he looks for me its an awful shame we didn't go the extra mile and sign him?REDWILL

10 Apr 2013 20:28:36
watching the psg barca game, mourra looks a player, shame we missed out on him

steve

Verratti on work rate alone was amazing

Jred

He is a fantastic player for being 20.

Would you swap Rooney for Verrati and Pastore? :)

shahram

10 Apr 2013 21:59:22
I'd swap Rooney for just Verratti.

To be honest no, I've yet to see verratti have a bad and would love him at the club but not so sure about pastore to be honest, good player but not sure how he would do at United and in the EPL.

10 Apr 2013 20:02:52
Just a hypothetical Question not saying either or will happen but just interesting hearing about rumours regarding Falcao.

If Rooney left this summer would you rather Falcao or lewendowski?
I would rather Lewe as he's younger and still has potential to get better.

Sulei

Falcao as he is the better player

10 Apr 2013 20:37:36
Personally i'd prefer Lewandowski. Like you said he's younger and has the potential to get better. Plus he'd cost 20m tops where as Falcao will cost over 50m so signing Falcao would probably be our only first team signing. Where as Lewandowski would still leave money left to sign other players.

Depends. If we had 100 million transfer budget for the summer then Falcao obviously as long as we bought some midfielders.

Shahram {Ed004's Note - I would only go for him if Rooney is sold and tbh I'm not sure we should play RVP any deeper. I wouldn't want to risk him getting injured and tbh he doesn't do as much defensive work as Rooney so we may be left a bit exposed in midfield}

10 Apr 2013 19:09:52
No messi for barca. this should be quite an interesting evening. also expect Juve to make it interesting.

Shahram

Lucas Moura is going to be one hell of a player. PSG giving barcelona all they can handle.

Moura is a (very) good version of Nani! Shame he went to PSG for something like 40m Euro + astronomical wages (meaning no chance for us) because he would have been class in our team.

10 Apr 2013 18:13:17
Great season IMO. Mickey Mouse cups aside I think it's pretty fair to say we were unlucky over 2 legs to go out to Madrid.
Since that 2nd leg defeat we have looked a little deflated but it won't ruin what's been another good season for the 20 times champions.
We could do with a little spring cleaning this summer, everyone will have an opinion on this, I'd say it might be time to cash in on a player that could still raise us a lot of funds (no name needed).
I think we could do with 2 quality world class midfielders both creative. personallly I'm not sure the holding midfielder is going to be as relevant anymore. Just my opinion. I'd also like to see another striker that's Rvp's class.
Would love Welbeck and Hernandez to stay.
Are width has been poor this season, not sure who I'd like to see go first to be honest.
We will beat Stoke and West Ham and that will be enough to take the title.!

We can't win the title just by beating stoke and west ham, even if city lose at home to Wigan which they won't. I wish people wouldn't call us 20 times champions, yes we probably will win it but only when it's mathematically safe are we champions and that's when we celebrate like city did last year!

10 Apr 2013 16:34:36
Did anyone think Buffon's performance against BM in the first leg looked very suspect?

Sydney!

What as in something to gain from the bookies?

Supasub

No, but could have sworn the ref for the inter atalanta game was up to no good.

Lost a bundel on it.

Shahram

10 Apr 2013 14:53:31
Sneidger played brilliantly against Madrid, I know its an old story, but why didn't we go for him before he went to galatasaray? Obvious reason is he's not a winger, and we only buy wingers!
Nomidfield

Apparently Terim wanted Kaka, so Sneijder wasn't even his choice. There is no doubt we could of signed him if we had any interest. We could of done with him in my opinion.

Yeh the winger thing.

Or perhaps the extortionate wages had something to do with it?

Get over, it I'd say. Glad we didn't squander so much money on such a flaky guy who's not that young either.

HBadger

Not that young at 28? unlike our midfield maestro on monday night at 40years old
johndenton

Johndenton

Giggs already plays for us so I don't understand the comparison TBH.

Sneijder at 28 wanted £200k+ and Inter wanted a transfer fee. If we're spending huge sums on one player I'd rather we get someone who is younger and improving - Goetze, Isco, Oezil whatever - rather than someone who played his best football a couple of years back and has question marks over his motivations (money?)

Not sure what Giggs has got to do with it at all. Whether we bought Sneijder or a younger version Giggs would still be here regardless.

HB

I have to admit I am a fan of him.

All this wage stuff is here-say and we don't know that. Young is on 120,000 and when you consider that sneijder at 150,000 would be worth it. Gala got him for something like 7 to 8 million Euros that is less than what we paid for bebe lol.

Look at rooney at 250,000 for another 2 years do you think that looks like good value at the moment.

Shahram

Are you serious young is on 120k a week!! I don't believe that. {Ed004's Note - He isn't on any where near that}

Sharham

I rate Sneijder too. I thought he played really well in a couple of the European Cup matches last year and have to admit I was still tempted by him at that stage.

I'd still rather get Goetze or Oezil though, I think they would be younger, hungrier and less likely to fade out of form/become a celebrity.

We are all guessing at wages I suppose, but we do know they were a huge stumbling block with Sneijder - otherwise why was Galatasaray the only ones willing to pay them?

I honestly don't think Young is on anywhere near that. I'd be disgusted if he was on more than around £80k.

Rooney's wage is not good value, I agree. Unfortunately we are stuck with that though and if we had the choice to sign Wayne now on his current wage - I'd say there would be no chance.

Sydney or some of the other guys can jump in here but I saw an article on our wages and they have him on 120,000. Rvp on 200,000 and Rooney on 250,000. they had quite few other players there too. I think cleverly is on 75,000k now and so is welbeck. valencia is 65,000. powel is on 5,000.

I was also shocked to see young on that sort of a wage.

Shahram

HB I agree with oezil, goetze if we could get them. But the transfer fees for those 2 would be significant.

Shahram

Too many people read too many papers. Cleverley is only on around £35k a week. Powell I would imagine is on around £15k. Valencia on £65k is believable. Welbeck will be on around £60k a week. It's believed Rooney and RvP are on £160k a week with big bonuses. Ashley Young will be on around £75k-£80k a week. The papers got the £130k a week figure as they heard that his salary was going to be doubled by United. Villa offered him £65k a week to stay, but he was on closer to £40k when he left. So they doubled the wrong figure. There is no way United would be paying Young £120k+ a week. Not a chance. United have a wage structure and it usually begins at £15k/£16k a week. Then it goes up to £35k-£45k. Then after that it usually goes to £60k-£90k. it depends on the player. Rooney came straight in on £50k a week, then it went up to £90k a week and now he is on a basic salary of £160k with mega bonuses. I said for months that Nani and Anderson are in the second bracket as they have both only had one contract extension. Papers were reporting Nani is on £90k a week and he wants £130k. But there is no way the club would have jumped from £15k/£16k a week straight up to £90k a week. There is a reason why Nani signed a deal in March 2010 and then less than a year later wanted another new deal which he was refused. He was and still is on a low salary compared to some at the club.

Sydney!

Sorry cleverly on 40k and welbeck on 75k and valencia on 90k.

Just got the article and it is 120k believe it or not and I am inclined to believe it is not too far off. Ed004 you don't seem to think so is that factual or just a view.


shahram {Ed004's Note - Just a view I can't see it being that much}

Shazza,

I think I may have read the same article but some of those figures are well off IMO, particularly for Young, Cleverly & Welbeck.

My guess would be:

Young £65-85k
Cleverly & Welbeck £40-60k max.

Syd would know better though.

It's all rumour, supposition etc etc, but sometimes little nuggets of info are released, then there's the wage structure and perhaps a bit of common sense. I can remember when a couple clubs trying to loan United players let slip about Diouf & PIG being on £16k a week. Sunderland (I think) mentioned Welbeck's salary being £16k a week. I wouldn't be surprised if Buttner is on £16k. It seems to be the starting amount for most.

Sydney!

Shahram, I don't know for certain obviously, but Young is not going to be on anywhere near £120k a week. Why would United offer him £120k a week when he was getting a mere £35k-£40k a week at Villa? I believe it will be in line with what Valencia is getting, but not quite as much as Vidic is getting (£90k).

Anyway, laters lads.

Sydney!

Sydney the same article reports Buttner on 15k a week. and Nani and Valencia and Evra all on 90k a week.

Shahram

I don't think Evans or Nani are on £90k p/w either. The article sounds like bull to me.

Hb if we had strengthed the midfield as we should of done giggs would probably of been retired by now and wouldn't of been on the pitch mon night.
johndenton

10 Apr 2013 11:57:27
Just read that Rangers legends will be playing Manchester United legends at Ibrox on Monday, May 6th at 2pm. I'm a Rangers season-ticket holder and also a Manchester United fan, so I'm absolutely delighted!

Our legends team played AC Milan Glorie at Ibrox on a Friday night last March, not long after we had entered administration, and there were 48,000+ fans at the game. It would be fantastic to get a big crowd again, with proceeds going to UNICEF, a charity which both clubs have partnerships with.

Will anyone else be going to the game?

s20c

10 Apr 2013 18:09:10
im a united fan my mate is a rangers fan so I think we will both be going, should be a good night

10 Apr 2013 11:25:58
Well this Falcao thing has surprised me, according to Marca we have already started talks and made a down payment? Could this be another case of 'this guy is too good to let go elsewhere' like RVP? We couldn't let Falcao go to Chelsea or City, that would be terrible I think. I wouldn't want this though to just mean that we spend £40 million on Falcao and nothing elsewhere.

Having said that, got a feeling that this will be the biggest summer we have had for some time. Money will be raised and money will be injected into the squad. Its probably SAFs last season and he will want to go out on top.

I'm not convinced by this story, however he would be a great signing, but would more than likely spell the end for Rooney. Not convinced though.

Sydney!

Cannot see this coming off at all we would be outdone by wages

Don't believe it at all TBH

HBadger

If its true, then it looks like Rooney is off, although he's inconsistent Rooney will be a big loss, I think he's the heart of the team but maybe it's for the best for united and Rooney. If we could get 45 mil for Rooney I'd go for gotze and lewy personally.

TRUMORS

I don't think wages would be an issue, especially if he was Rooney's replacement. What United struggle with is greedy agents.

Sydney!

Like someone said down below (Sorry, can't give anyone credit because I forgot who it was) Marca is very pro madrid and seeing as I can speak a bit of Spanish, I sometimes look on their website and I also believe it is just something to mess up Atleticos confidence and try and unfocus them for a 2nd place finish!

Tommy;
While your right about marca being pro real madrid, I dnt think its there to unsettle them for 2nd place, rumours of falcao leaving has been banded ariund all season, so linking hjm to us today wouldn't unsettle them anymore imo.

Chris the REDman

Tommy, I doubt Marca saying that Falcao is in talks with us would affect Atletico at all. The club are the only ones that know the truth at the end of the day.

Nothing to do with finishing 2nd. Everyone knows he is leaving, the question is where is he going?

I think he might end up at City, Chelsea or PSG

Shahram

Would you honestly want to pay 40 million pound for a 27 year old striker who has had two good seasons? I think he is well over rated and there are better options.
For one I wouldn't swap him for Rooney. The money should be spent on two midfielders, a winger and a left full back not another forward. I would sooner sign Lewondowski and pay 15 million pound less if it's ANOTHER forward he wants?
The options up front arn't the problem it's the midfield.

Simmo

Simmo, Rooney is 27. Difference is Rooney peaked years ago, Falcao peaked last season.

That being said I very much doubt he is on the cards.

Sydney!

10 Apr 2013 10:11:27
It's rumoured that SAF will retire at the end of next season. If true then what does that mean for team rebuilding? Should SAF go ahead asap meaning the new manager would inherit a team that maybe isn't to his liking, or should rebuilding be delayed until the new manager is appointed. The third option is SAF leaving at the end of this season giving a new manager a clear run.

I think now Pep has moved to BM, the manager will stay on one more year. Hopefully we do a lot of rebuilding this summer so the new manager has a good base of players to work with.

Sydney!

Not sure it matters too much TBH. Every summer players will leave and other's will join, it is an ongoing and continuous process. SAF has added some excellent youth in recent times i. e. Jones, Smalling, Rafael, Fabio, Powell, Zaha, Henriquez etc. so this should leave us in good stead for whenever the new man comes in. Whenever we change manager I would expect them to make 2/3 big changes to put their stamp on the team but also to make the most of our talented youngster's, as is the United way.

HBadger

I can't see us appointing a manager who's style is radical change anyway (one of the reasons I don't see Mourinho joining) so I don't think it makes much difference.

TK-Red

I think this summer will be big.

Seeing as all the rumours lately have consisted of a few Dortmund players, I wouldn't be surprised to see Klopp come in, he knows what players he already wants if behind closed doors OT know he will take over and SAF might even be helping Klopp early so he has a squad to come into that already has some of his former players? Just a thought

10 Apr 2013 09:58:17
Mario Gotze’s agent Dirk Hebel has revealed that a number of European clubs are interested in his his client. Mario has been referred to as one of the hottest prospects in Europe since he started playing for Borussia Dortmund in 2009.

“I think in Europe all the top clubs are interested in Mario, ” Dirk Hebel told calciomercato. com.

“I can confirm that I have had contact with Juventus and Manchester United, but not only them.

“I don’t know if he’ll go away after this season, you should ask Borussia. But I think that they will not let him leave for less than 40 million euros.

“He still is very happy at Dortmund, though now he is injured. ”

Manchester United have already began the work on their squad for next season. Wilfried Zaha will join United in the summer as his deal is final and he will be trained with the squad to play.

On the other hand, the addition of Gotze might give United the required creativity in the midfield.

Fergie sign him up. imo a future Ballon d'or

Perfect buy for this summer.

Given what Moura and Hazzard went for 40 million Euro's is not outrageous for a player of his quality especially given his age.

I actually think he is better than both of them and the type of player that can change the game for us, which we are lacking at the moment. Carrick, him and Strootman/Bender would be a great midfield 3.

Fergie get the cheque book out :)

Shahram

10 Apr 2013 06:58:37
Ferguson "knew the problems " after the first Barcelona game four years ago yet we still went up against a superior City packed midfield with Giggs in a two central midfield role, why?

Red Man

10 Apr 2013 07:36:57
Because he was unwilling to sacrifice a forward player to stick an extra man in midfield. One of Young Welbeck Rooney or RvP would have had to been dropped to put Cleverley (his only other midfield option) in. He decided to try and catch City on the break and went with the four attacking players for him to do this. Imo this shows that he was still going for the win. Personally i'd have dropped Rooney and Young and put Cleverley and Kagawa in pack the midfield and try and hold them for the draw and maybe try and nick it on a set piece. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

On our midfield issues.
Maybe his preferred midfield targets were not available till now?

Lol 5 years is along time to wait for your targets. In the meantime we have seen one after another get signed up by various teams.

Shahram

He shoulkd drop rooney for good we carry him a smuch we do giggs sometimes.

ms85

Honestly can't give a good answer to this one.

As far as I'm concerned if we're going to set up to 'soak up pressure and counter attack' then playing with 2 wingers and 2 forwards makes little sense. If we're guna spend most of the game defending then I'd have packed the midfield a bit, either with 3 in there or at least someone with more energy and stamina than Giggs (Cleverly only option Mon night).

If I was a Roberto Mancini, considering the way City set up, to see Giggs start in a 2 man midfield up against Yaya, Silva etc. would have made my day!

HBadger

Shahram, you do realise that the Barcelona final was less than four years ago don't you? Back then we had a 20 year old Anderson, Hargreaves, Carrick, Scholes, Fletcher and an emerging Gibson. I do not think a central midfielder was really needed until the summer of 2011. That was the summer Hargreaves was released. It was apparent Anderson was going to struggle with weight and fitness. And Scholes was showing signs of slowing down considerably. It was the summer of 2011 that we should have went out and signed a midfielder. The summer of 2012 it seems Nasri was set to join similarly to the way RvP agreed to join, but at the last moment he listened to what City had to offer. Then the club was a bit desperate and went all out for Sneijder, but as we know Sneijder was unrealistic in his demands. But for me "2011" was the summer we should have got in a midfielder and ever since that position has been neglected. So when you say "five years", I think it's more like two years personally.

Sydney!

Are nasri or sneijder really cm's both can play their if required but I wouldn't label either a cm imo

Agreed jred, I think Kagawa has come in as an AM which Nasri or Sneijder would have been IMO. None of these 3 are suited to playing in a 2 man midfield as far as I'm concerned.

We need a deep lying midfielder, someone who can play but can also put in a tackle.

HBadger

Neither were Cleverley, Anderson or even Powell, but that's where the manager has been playing them. Scholes was even a CAM before SAF moved him deeper. Rooney has been earmarked to move there when he "slows down". What is the manager's motivation for moving attacking players deeper?

Sydney!

Nasri's best ever season was his last season at Arsenal. He went on a big goal scoring run when he replaced Cesc in central midfield (Cesc injured). As soon as Cesc returned AW moved him back to the wing position and his goals and assists dried up. I think Nasri would be playing next to Carrick now had he signed. However I agree that we should be looking to play tougher players in central midfield, someone like Strootman or Bender.

Sydney!

Hb
I agree, I think fergy was looking for a AM and that man in the end was kags.
I also think this is where Rooney will end up not cm

Fair point Syd but I still think that either Sneijer/Nasri would have been used in the Kagawa role rather than the Cleverly role.

I also think Rooney would be terrible in a 2 man midfield and considering his huge wage that would be a big mistake for us IMO.

HBadger

Sydney

I realize when the final was but even in 2009, I thought we were light in the middle and it was all really about Scholes had clearly lost his legs and could no longer influence the game like he used to and never gave ourselves a chance in that final.

Besides Hargreaves was injured and there was talk of him never coming back which the club denied but as it turns out now true.

Anderson and Gibson I was never convinced, so when you break it down we had an aging Scholes, Fletcher and Park.

I think the biggest loss was Hargreaves as he could of been our rock in the middle and with him in the side in 2009 we might of had a chance.

I was sure when we sold Ronaldo that summer, it was to buy 2 major midfielders and have been amused by the lack of signing for 4 summers now.

I think we need midfielders who can contribute 8 to 10 goals a season and at the moment we are getting nothing from that area and overly reliant on our strikers scoring 25 a season. We seem to have no plan B when the strikers are misfiring.

How many big goals has Scholes scored over his career for us and since his demise the goals have dried and no one has picked up the mantle from him.

That is why I think the manager is after an attacking midfielder since last year and would be surprised if we don't buy a top boy this summer.

Come this summer it will 5 windows.

Shahram

Jred

Some people pointed out that we pulled out of the hazzard discussions for whatever reason and signed Kagawa instead. However when we made the bid for Moura, Kagawa was already signed. I think he is still looking for a creative/advanced midfielder.

Shahram

I disagree Syd.

Nasri's best form was in the no. 10 role not as a traditional CM. He had 2 CM's behind him (any 2 from Song, Denilson & Wilshere), 2 wide men either side (2 from Arshavin, Walcott & Rosicky) and one forward ahead of him (RvP). Then when Fabregas returned he took his place and Nasri moved back out to the left AM position.

I've never seen him play in a 2 man midfield.

In our system I think Nasri would have fulfilled the exact same role Kagawa has been brought in to do, in fact it seems pretty obvious to me.

Nasri fell through, Sneijder fell through, so we got Kagawa.

HBadger

Shahram, believe it or not, but both Gibson and Anderson four years ago were highly thought of by the club. We also had Carrick, Fletcher, Hargreaves, Scholes, Giggs & Park that could play in midfield if needed. Whether you or me believed we needed a new midfielder then, the club didn't. The club always thought there was a chance Hargreaves would recover, especially in 2009 and 2010. We had more than enough cover there, although in hindsight it never panned out that way.

Sydney!

Think you got your years mixed up there sydney as it was summer 2011 we were after nasri an sneijder as 2012 was the summer just gone

I know because we always expect the young guys in the system to be our stars of the future but it happens a lot less than people like to admit.

Take today, whilst everyone is talking about Zaha and Powell, I will only be convinced if they can produce the goods on the big stage and will grant them time an the same goes for Welbeck.

However do not prescribe to the theory of hanging on year after year hoping they will come good because using age as an excuse can only go so far and there are plenty of players at a very young age that either have it or don't.

The reality is one out of probably 20 high potential youngsters will be good enough to make our squad and you can triple those odds when it comes to being a genuine starter in the first 11.


Shahram

Sharham
I see hazard and moura more as attacking wide men I think fergy was after a kags type player as well as a hazard type.
Both players could play each other's role but I do think they are different types of players
Hb
I agree

Noname

We were after Sneijder in summer of 2010 after his world cup showing and Mourinho leaving Inter and going to Madrid.

Nasri in Summer of 2011 but never been convinced on this one and if we really tried that hard.

Shahram

I'm with you there again, jred.

Hazard and Moura are best suited to the wide role in a 4231 whereas Kagawa is better suited to the central role. I'd like to think we were after both but now we've signed Zaha I do worry that another wide man will not be forthcoming. Kagawa can play out wide and Hazard can play centrally but IMO we were looking at Hazard/Moura for the wider role as they can dribble past people for fun.

Hb
I think hazard would of been a great signing can beat a man and has an end product I think it is something we are missing basically a better version of Valencia nani and young.
I hope fergy has something lined up along those lines as I don't think zaha is any better than what we have.
A top cm'er and a top class wide attacking player and it would be a great summer imo

"A top cm'er and a top class wide attacking player and it would be a great summer imo"

Couldn't agree more with that, jred. I'd even be tempted to blow most of the budget on these 2 positions. Any money left over I would look to spend on a LB or another CM'er (ideally both!).

10 Apr 2013 03:23:03
I tend to keep of the site for a couple of days after a loss and my biggest problem with the game was the failure to bring hernandez and kagawa on as soon as city went 2-1 up :/ Surely more influential and likely to make an impact than gigs and young! i'm not sure if this has been discussed but does anyone think this was SAF's pride in his selection? Or an old man straight out of the cuckoo's nest? I joke!

10 Apr 2013 01:04:51
Also I would like to add where are all these Nani, Ando and Evra supporters now they are not playing their 2-3 good games a season?

Seems people with short term memories like to jump on bandwagons when all is going well eh!

10 Apr 2013 07:47:15
I've never been much of a Nani supporter, he just always looks like a headless chicken. Not even he knows what he's gunna do next.

Ando on the other hand has such talent, I think i've probably run out of patiance with him though. I've given him chance after chance but he just can't lose weight or stay off the treatment table. And I think its time to give up on him unfortunately.

With Evra I said it was a lack of competition for his place which led to his poor performances. And since Buttner came in his performances have certainly improved, I think know its become more obvious to all that he's always been abit defensively lacking. I think this summer would be the best time to move him on after he's had a decent season rather than keep him until he has a shocking season and be stuck with him. As he is only going one way and it isn't up. But I expect to see him as first choice next season too.

Evra has had a decent season imo. Anderson has had too many chances and has to go. As infuriating as Nani can be, he has more ability than most around him. SAF may have decided that he too has had enough chances though.

Shaddy are you picking the team chance after chance. I don't think it matters about you. ;-)

Jono I'm sorry mate but that's a load of old tosh. Anderson and Evra I can't speak for as I've never been a great defender of them but, although I still rate Nani, we aren't playing in a style that suits him and his form this season has generally been poor. There is no coincidence that Nani's run of good form a couple of years back came when he had the right wing to himself for the whole season and wasn't shunted from right to left though, like I said, his form has been poor anyway. I still believe he'll go elsewhere and be a very good player for them. i'd see Spurs as a side that would suit him tbh in place of Aaron Lennon. Besides mate I don't see much DDG bashing from you of late seeing as he hasn't had his 2-3 poor games a season. ? ;)

TK-Red

Touché TK

I have been far more impressed with the overall quality of DDG but the main gripe I'm having here is he has progressed and improved in 18months whereas Nani and Ando have had 5 years and still are not good enough squad players! Evra was a top talent but seems to be lazy as fook getting back and costs us umpteen goals even if he popped up with a couple himself for a change! None should IMO be hear anyway but hopefully 2 out of three will be off this summer.

The point I was makin though was about bandwagons and how sooo many were bumming Ando after his 70min salvos in a couple of games and Nani after a couple of games when they have been non existent or gash for the rest of the season! It's probably the same folk that are moaning at rafa when he has a bad game or carrick or erm DDG ;)

10 Apr 2013 00:16:50
The best signing we could make this summer is Jose mourinho or Juergen klopp. Or at the very least a tactically aware number 2 to assist fergie in matches he can't handle.
I respect him, and will never forget all he has done for our club, but in my opinion the game has evolved and he hasn't, we haven't played good football since quieroz left. With the exception of a handful of games. Ie. the 8-2 against arsenal

We already have a very good #2. No, not Phelan. Its Rene Meulensteen