Manchester United Banter Archive March 15 2013

15 Mar 2013 20:12:34
ed's do you really think moutinho could be a possibility I think he's realistic would suit the premier league and we could do wit someone like him
paddy the irish man

Would love to see united make a double swoop for moutinho and rodriguez

Ya
paddy the irish man

16 Mar 2013 10:26:11
Sorry but Moutinho isn't all that. At this stage in his career he's never played outside of Portugal. that's rare for a Portuguese player. Look through the national team and previous other Portugal teams at tournaments and most of them were playing abroad at the start of the tournaments or moved afterwards. I remember us being linked with Moutinho when we signed Nani. Nothing came of it. Years later and all he's done is moved from Sporting to Porto. No big club from another country has signed him and it can't always be down to Porto over charging. I'm sure Porto would probably rather sell. Something must be lacking somewhere for him to still be in Portugal at this stage of his career when all his contempories play in Spain, Italy, England etc. I'm not saying he isn't a good player but I find it curious how he hasn't moved. There must be something that isn't publicly known. Maybe he gets homesickness like Navas or maybe he just doesn't want to move. Whatever it is I don't think he's a likely signing.

I agree, no name - Moutino is pretty good, but he's not 20million+ good, when you consider who else might be available in CM for that amount.

TommyH

15 Mar 2013 13:22:56
Ed, is it true that Bale was a guest of Manchester United at the Madrid game and Gill has made contact with Levy? Quote price of 80 million Euro's though? Rediculous. I'd give £35 and Nani at a push. {Ed002's Note - Bale attends all of the Manchester United games wearing a false beard and dark glasses.}

£35 is a bit low don't you think fresh?

JK92

Fresh, we wouldn't spend £25m on Rodriguez last summer, why would we spend £70m odd on Bale?

Sydney!

Syd, 35 mils and Nani is hardly 70 mil. I would say bale is worth around 50-55 mils. And since Bale is significantly better than Rodriguez, it's quite natural we'd have to pay much more to get him.

Mick, I am referring to the "80 million Euros" quote. I would also completely disagree that Bale is considerably better than Rodriguez, he is having a better season. Bale is certainly not worth twice as much as Rodriguez.

My point was there is no way Manchester United would pay 80m euros for Bale when they turned down Rodriguez for £25m.

Sydney!

Bale has already said he won't be moving and when he does it will be abroad!

Syd

Bale is a lot more talented than Rodriguez.
I would pick Bale over him any day of the week.
If we managed to get Bale at United we would have probably one of the best players in the world in a year or two. The kid has got everything.

Simmo

Sorry Simmo mate, Bale is a good player, but I am not going to jump on this Bale bandwagon. I would take Rodriguez for £25m over Bale for £50m. The penny has dropped for Bale. Rodriguez is still a couple years away from reaching his potential. In a top team like United, RM, or even in a team like Spurs Rodriguez would be an exceptional player.

Sydney!

Bale is premier league proven and on current form, is on par with the best players in the world ( not counting messi and Ronaldo obviously ). He is also young, proven in the premier league and is looking likely to reach Cristiano Ronaldo's level.

Whilst Rodriguez is very talented, he is nowhere near bale.

As in terms of price, 80 mils is wayy too much for Bale. If a young Cristiano Ronaldo, fresh from having won the ballon d'or, costs 80 mils, Bale is not worth more than 50 imo, and Ferguson would not pay that sort of money ( if availabl ) for anyone other than Cristiano

Sydney do you even watch football? You come out with some absolute belters of statements lol. You seem to think you know EVERYTHING.

To say James Rodriguez is even close to the level of Gareth Bale is a ridiculous statement. Just as ridiculous as people saying Bale is on Ronaldo/Messi level.

Bale is doing it week in, week out in the toughest league there is. Rodriguez is a good player, but the Portuguese league isn't a great standard and even at that, he is not a total stand out.

Think before you type!

Bale is by far the better player that's not jumping on the bandwagon that's knowing something about football
Mufc

There is always one no named keyboard warrior.

I have said Bale isn't worth twice as much as Rodriguez and I stand by that.

Leave a name you sappy little girl.

Sydney!

Bale at current is better, he's more accomplished and playing in a better league, Rodriguez however, for me has the greater potential than bale, bale for me with peak early and then dwindle out at a team like villa or a lower Spanish side, Bilbao, Valencia maybe, but James will be one hell of a player and in 4 years time when ronaldo and messi have slowed down a bit and start to deteriorate he will be the best there is in my opinion.

BvB, I guess my original point was £25m for Rodriguez is better value for money than £50m+ for Bale. More to the point United were interested in Rodriguez but were not willing to meet the £25m price, so there is very little chance United would spend 80m euros on Bale.

Sydney!

Cant believe levy would ever allow bale to join united

Syd! is absolutely right. Bale has found that little extra something of late but I refuse to get carried away with the rest of the media led public. I would also much rather have Rodriguez for £25million than Bale for £50million.

I would question whether no name has actually bothered to watch any Portuguese football this season to make such a judgement on Rodriguez, because some of us have so know exactly what kind of player he is and could be.

TK-Red

TK, exactly, I think Bale is playing well this season notably the past couple of months, but I will not jump on the media led Bale bandwagon or become one of the Bale brigade. No one can tell me Bale for £50m is better value for money than Rodriguez for £25m. Good player, but he is not value for money and that's why Manchester United will not be interested in signing him.

Sydney!

Tk
Media led public
I think quite a few on this site rated bale a good few years ago and said he would develop in to the top player he has. I wouldn't really call that media led.
I've watched Rodriguez a good few times Been difficult this season as he's struggled with injuries I think he has only played about 10 league games and isn't very happy at the moment as he can't get in to the starting 11
Good player but there is a reason United were not willing to pay 25 for him. I'm pretty sure we would of payed more for hazard or Lucas which tells you a story.
As for 80 mill for bale well I wouldn't believe everything I read in the paper to be honest I don't think he will go for that much but he will go for a lot and the reason he will go for so much is because he is a very good player, even if some people either can't see it or can't bring themselves to admit it.
Also if bale leaves spurs I would be amazed if he stops in England to be honest.
Syd
your views aren't that surprising to be honest it wasn't that long ago you thought he was only good enough to play lb for united

Jred, nobody is saying that Bale isn't a good player but, even on current form, there is no way he is worth the money being mentioned. When Bale has a FULL season playing as he has been for the last few months then perhaps we can start talking about him in that sense. Of course we wouldn't pay £25million for Rodriguez as he is still work in process but there is no way Bale is worth twice as much as him. As for the Bale issue being media led, there are a few players that have played as well this season as Bale has including Mata and, dare I say it, Suarez and yet we scoff when the scousers say Suarez is worth £50million, and rightly so. Bale seems to be the media darling at present and with that the price tag seems to rise every week and, although I'm referring to you or anyone in particular on this site, there is a tendency for people to buy into the idea that the more expensive a player is, the better he must be and vice versa.

Whomever buys James Rodriguez, if it turns out to be an EPL team, in 2 years will have someone just as effective, IMO, as Gareth Bale is now and for much less money.

TK-Red

Yeah I see the logic in that syd, however I saw someone earlier up the post saying bale has greater ability and potential etc. But for me James has it all to be the best and although he isn't everyone's cup of tea he's certainly mine with 3 sugars added, fantastic little player great feet and great end product which Nani doesn't have neither does Toni of late, so I'd pay that £25m for Rodriguez because everytime I see him he gets better, but I'm not a regular viewer of the Portuguese league so not on a regular basis just in Europe and an occasional porto vs benfica on first row tv, but anyways it's a matter of opinion and the type of player posters desire and like and for me James fits the bill, perfectly.

(not trying to add confusion to anyone but I aren't a Dortmund fan, Black Veil Brides is a band, and it's quite precarious when I tried to use bvb as my sign off as people would of thought I was a Dortmund fan but hey hoe haha!, new poster anyway!, read loads for a few years, ready to add my opinion to posts on a regular basis, thanks for the response Syd, nice to be noticed haha ;) )

Who's to say that bale has reached his 'potential' the fact is he could be even better over the next few years! and there is no 'bandwagon' bale was touted as a possible future world class player 5 years ago which is why united tried to sign him! now that he's starting to play at a level many thought he could reach its suddenly a bandwagon? the quality is there to see there is no disputing that! united payed 30m for berbatov a proven premier league player and didn't work out as we all hoped 10 years ago they paid 28m for veron, at the time everyone thought he was one of the best in the world! there are no guarantees in football every transfer is a risk 50 million pound for bale seems like a fair price to me given how he has improved year after year! united payed 25m for anderson they paid 25m euros for nani they paid 7 and a half for bebe a player fergie never even seen play! Ronaldo went for 80m pounds is he twice the player bale is? I don't think so! bale has improved year after year in the premier league and he deserves the high praise he's getting at the moment! Bale could come to united and completely flop and you'd have people like sydney saying I told you so or he could come and get 25 goals next season and these same people would say it was a steal at 50m nobody knows what's going to happen but it would be a calculated risk based on the fact that he has improved immensely over the last few years in the premier league! Rant over

That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. You're talking about Bale is if he was touted as potential world class and he has now reached that status but this is the first season Bale has been consistent (he has had good patches before but never done it over an entire season) and in my eyes it takes more than a top class 6 months before someone can be classed as such and certainly more than that before you can justify spending £50million plus on someone. Ronaldo was sold for £80million because he proved himself as the best player in the PL for atleast 3 years between 2006-09. When Bale adds another year or 2 of consistently performing at a high level then he can be considered as part of that elite group. In the meantime I would rather us spend half that amount of money on someone younger and who possibly has more potential, of course that's just a matter of opinion.

It always amuses me that people get so sensitive when the term bandwagon is mentioned, as if the person using it was addressing those people directly. You may very well have rated Gareth Bale since he played for Southampton under 9's, who knows and quite frankly I don't care but the fact is that there are a lot of people who are actually jumping on a bandwagon. I even know Spurs fans who are doing it. It happens every time any player hits a some form.

TK-Red

Perhaps there has been a bandwagon but that is inevitable from the fickles when a player hits such top form. I've been saying for at least 2 seasons that Bale is something special, for me he has been consistently very good but has hit a patch of form recently where he's been up there with the world's best. Still only 23 so scope to improve too.

Granted I've only seen Rodriquez a couple times but from what I've seen he's got some catching up to do in order to match Bale. He may or may not be better value but there is no guarantee that either player will improve (both are just as likely to) but at this time Bale is better. So Rodriquez may be cheaper and better value but you may never end up with a player as good as Bale.

Last point - EPL experience is worth a hell of a lot in my book and Bale has bags of that.

p. s. I'm actually dubious that we will stretch to Porto's valuation of JR let alone Spurs' valuation of Bale so I wouldn't be surprised at all if we end up with neither!

I see some people constantly referring to the fact that "people fall for the media led campaign" for a player. Rooney, Bale and others for that matter. Just a little bit of clarification, I and a lot of others watch football matches. We base our judgement on what we see and not what we hear. The media can overhype anyone as much, but I guess thanks to TV/Live matches, we can decide for ourselves. Bale is a fantastic player and has been for quite some time. His new found consistency has made him one of the most feared players in the league.

If someone is good, it doesen't always have to be jumping on the bandwagon. May be the player is that good?

Deeps.

Interesting debate. Being a regular watcher of the portuguese league, Rodriguez is not worth 35 mill and he is no Ronaldo or even Bale. I think the bandwagon thing is more close to the Rodriguez discussion as Bale is a top top player.

Big players show up in big games and spurs play through bale in every big game and he has proven he can play at the highest level against all comers. If anyone watches Porto games Rodriguez is not their main guy and Moutinho and Jackson martinez are the key guys for that team.

I will not comment on valuations as I really don't understand how these guys are valued but I can see why there would be a big gap between the valuation of each player.

Shahram

The thing is we didn't want to pay 25 for Rodriguez and the ed has said porto are looking for 30 plus which is why they raised the release clause in his contract.
So at 30+ mill I don't think he is great value for money.
I don't think any player is worth 50 mill and I don't think United will ever pay that sort of cash for player but if hazard and Lucas are going for 35 I would have to say bale is on the next level up

Jred, I would rather have Rodriguez as a left winger than Bale. Bale is too easily taken out of the game on the left. And for the last time I said Bale as a wingback, learn the difference you plum.

Sydney!

I don't think you can judge a players worth on whether he is his teams 'main guy' necessarily. Is Mata Chelsea's main guy? Is Silva City's main guy? Also don't forget that Rodriguez is 21 and very few 21 year olds are the centre of the team. Bale certainly wasn't at 21. A very good player but not the main man.

As for Rodriguez being worth £25 million, I agree. But I also don't believe Bale is worth £50million. I've been saying that Bale isn't worth twice as much as Rodriguez but let me clarify that I don't believe he is £25million better than the young Colombian. If Rodriguez was worth £10million and Bale worth £20million then I would have no argument but a full £25mill? I don't think so personally.
Someone said further up that all transfers are a risk and that Bale could go on and score 25 goals next season and that £50mill could be classed as a bargain but I would argue that you don't spend £50million on a player unless he is going to guarantee that level of performance, whether it be 25 goals, 25 assists or domination of other teams, as Ronaldo did, and I'm not personally of the view that Bale has proven he can do that season upon season.

TK-Red

TK, I am nor convinced Bale would get 25 goals in a United team or a RM team. The only reason he is getting so many goals at Spurs this season is because they are struggling for goals from other areas in their team. Bale has also been playing pretty much as a striker/2nd striker of late. He wouldn't play there for us or RM.

Sydney!

Oh and just to address something Deeps said; nobody is saying Bale isn't a good player but the bandwagon jumpers are the ones, in my view, that think after a short run of condistency he is up there with the Ronaldos of this world and is worth £50million when IMO he is worth around £30-35million at most.

Like I said, football fans get a little overly sensitive when someone talks at a bandwagon as though their footballing knowledge is being questioned.

TK-Red

I agree Syd! Spurs may rely on Bale but that says as much about the quality of their strikers as it does Bale. Also let's bare in mind that Bale played well on the left and gradually got found out, an example of which is Rafael. So Bale started tucking inside and has found his form again but I would like to see him show that he won't be found out again before I start talking about him as a £50million player.

TK-Red

I don't think you're being fair to Bale at all Syd. This is a player who has clearly improved dramatically in the last two years, and is still improving. I don't think it's a bandwagon, it's a case of people seeing how good the lad is getting. Whether he would get 25 goals a season or not, I can't think of any young attacking player that I would rather have in the team over Bale.

The reality is that we have no chance of buying him because we would have to pay vastly more than any non-EPL club. Therefore Bale is a moot transfer topic. Fantastic talent but never coming here so long as he remains at Spurs.

Danny Pughnited

I don't think you're being fair to Bale at all Syd. This is a player who has clearly improved dramatically in the last two years, and is still improving. I don't think it's a bandwagon, it's a case of people seeing how good the lad is getting. Whether he would get 25 goals a season or not, I can't think of any young attacking player that I would rather have in the team over Bale.

The reality is that we have no chance of buying him because we would have to pay vastly more than any non-EPL club. Therefore Bale is a moot transfer topic. Fantastic talent but never coming here so long as he remains at Spurs.

Danny Pughnited

Danny, my point was we would never pay £50m+ for Bale when we wouldn't pay £25m for Rodriguez and Rodriguez is better value for money. That was my point. I have not once said Bale isn't a good player, he is a good player. But would he be playing as a striker/2nd striker for us? NO, is he worth £50m as a left winger? Not a chance. Could he play in the hole? I think so, but is he worth £50m for that position? I'm not convinced. I don't think he is worth that sort of money, but more to my original point I do not think the club would see him as value for money at £50m.

Sydney!

TK, another thing with Bale is he plays well on the counter attack when he has space to run into. United get games where lower league teams park the bus and there isn't space to run into. What use is Bale then? I am not taking anything away from Bale as he is a good player, but on the left he is so easily taken out of the game and nullified. To be fair since Adebayor went to the ACN, Bale has been the furthest forward centrally making him a striker at times. He wouldn't play there for us. I do not think he is good enough on the left wing so that is why I am not bowled over by him. I think he is a better player centrally, but I would take Rodriguez for the left wing every time. Rodriguez can beat a player whether there is space to run into or not.

My original point was United didn't pay £25m for Rodriguez so there is no way we would spend £50m+ on Bale. Rodriguez at £25m is much better value for money and we refused to pay that. We have gone off the point slightly, but I have no doubt in my mind that Rodriguez is better value for money.

Sydney!

Danny, I agree with your 1st post, but not your 2nd ;)

Sydney!

TK don't agree. If anything top teams always have a main player who produces on the big stage and those players have silly valuations.

I guess it all comes down to personal preferences, so if we as a club were contemplating paying 35 mill for Rodriguez then bale is definitely worth the extra 15 million and a better buy because he has proven that he can play at the highest level not just domestically but also in Europe. Our track record of buying overpriced players from portugal is not exactly great and that does not include Ronaldo as we did not pay a stupid price for him.

BTW bale was 21 years old when he ripped who at the time was considered to be one of the best backs in the world Maicon.

I think you will be surprised come this summer with the money that will paid for various players and bales valuation might not seem so crazy then.

This is all pointless as Real will probably get him and most likely will use Higuain/Benzema as a trade to make it happen.

Shahram

Shahram, Maicon's legs were gone. Great goals by Bale, but Maicon's best days were well behind him and it was the Inter president who said that. He said they should have sold him the summer before to RM as his legs had gone and they would never get a big fee for him again.

Sydney!

TK

I haven't seen one post on here saying Bale is on Ronnie's level. Correct me if I am wrong mate.

Lol, yeah bandwagon is a sensitive subject, just like my post drew a response only from you. Few of us are shall I say a lil touchie ;)

Deeps.

Deeps, to be fair when I said bandwagon I am not talking about you or anyone else on here for that matter. I am talking about the media really. Compared to other club pages I have to say the United fans are the most clued up and are no sheep.

Sydney!

Deeps your post could've only been in response to Syd! or I so of course I responded. Unfortunately for the point you are intimating there was nothing touchie about my response but nice try ;)

'Shahram'

You've just pretty much said what I have been saying all along. That while Bale is better at the moment and on form, he is not worth twice the amount of Rodriguez. Rodriguez isn't worth £35million though, he is worth around £20million IMO so in that case, yes, Bale IS worth £15million more at around £35million which is a valuation I said in an earlier post.

I won't be at all surprised by any of the fees come the summer as we know they will be astronimical and if we go for any of those players then I will make my opinion on how much they are worth at the time but for this discussion we are talking about Bale and I don't think he is worth £50million. I don't think there is much more I can so. Like I said earlier we will all just have to agree to disagree.

TK-Red

15 Mar 2013 12:36:36
congratulations to big dave on his call up to the spain squad, he's slowly but surely proving his doubters wrong, keep it up dave.

phil

15 Mar 2013 08:22:01
A paper today has said Liverpool are tracking Diego capel, I've said for a while We should buy him He's a Spanish international so can't be that bad,

Torres is a Spain international.

TommyH

So is Valdez

15 Mar 2013 06:21:33
Mick, I concede. You are quite right. With proper analysis, it's only on defence we have significantly more depth. I guess the ability of the 1st 11 in '99 made the rest of the squad look thin.