Manchester United Banter Archive June 16 2012

16 Jun 2012 20:14:54
Being reported in the FT that Morgan Stanley have refused to get involved in the Glazers plans to float United. Not good reading and states the Glazers are desperate to pursue this.

In amongst all the rumours on the possible incomings, the dark spectre of the Glazers looms large and their stranglehold continues to drain the blood out of our club. The changes have been clear to see over the last 3 years and it frustrates me that we are no longer the healthy, financial force that we
Once were.

I wish they would either come clean on their intentions or better still leave.

Their intentions have been clear from day one. Buy the club for nothing, while injecting zero cash, before selling for £1.5billion. I fear they're going nowhere until that happens.

G.A.G.U.S

As a United fan i hate them but as a money lover myself you have to admire them for being clever businessman.... as soon as the debt has been cleared they will either sell for mega profit and we will end up doing the same again or they will keep the club and just make silly profits still

16 Jun 2012 22:33:09
Now Gareth Bale seems to be making alot of apperances on here in the last few days so i thought i'd do a bit of a piece on him.

With any player there are lots of ways for which to judge a player, the one that is most commonly misused is looking at a players stats.
Stats only mean anything if you have ALL the stats otherwise they can be very misleading. For Example:

Player X has 10 goals and 4 assists last season.

Is that any good?

You don't know as you don't know things like what position he plays, what tatctics are the team playing he plays in, how many games he played, how many minutes he played, how many of those goals/assists came from set plays, how many shots he's had, how many key passes he's made, how many chances he has set up thats been missed, ect ect ect.

So this is a very poor way to judge a player, stats have a role to play in judging a player but only a small part and only if you have all the stats.

The only real way to judge a player is to watch them. So i will only judge Bale here on what i've seen of him and not on what his stats are as i don't have them all to paint a fair and true picture.

From when i've watched Bale the first thing you notice is his speed but if you look closer you see that his speed is his main weapon as he doesn't have the best footballing brain and will often run down blind alleys and will cross the ball either too soon or too late. On a technical level he has alot to work on, his touch and control of the ball isn't up to standard for a top winger. You never see him use his feet to beat a man, it's always hit the ball past the man and beat him for pace. He is a strong lad who tackles well, his defensive side is good but he needs to learn to read the game better to improve his defensive contrabution.

So my conclusion is he will always be an inconsistant winger due to his lack of attacking thought(this isn't that he doesn't like to attack he just doesn't know what to do and when enough to be consistant) and his limited technical ablity.
That being said he does have some very good qualities that lean to making him a very good full back/wing back. I would say at the moment he would make a better wing back than full back but once he improves his defensive reading of the game he will make an excellent full back.

So to put it into context with Man Utd, if we were signing him to play Left Back then i would be happy but if we were signing him to play Left wing i would have reservation.

The problem comes with his probable cost, he'd cost at least 25m imo which on a full back is alot of money especially when you consider we wouldn't be buying the finished article and we would have to work on improving his reading of the game. Plus we have some very good young LB's coming through atm. So i can't see him being signed as he certainly wouldn't be value for money and there are other players we could sign who imo would be as good for less.

Shappy

Good piece Shappy, nice to see a little thought going into a post judging a player rather than just slating him

I do have a couple points...

1) You mentioned price tag in relation to Bale as a LB. Well for me this is a no brainer. IMO there is no need to spend more than £10-15m on a full back and if we were to do so it would HAVE to be on a finished article (which as you state Bale is not, defensively). So, for me I wouldn't want Bale at LB as I feel it would be a waste of money

2) You mention Bale is inconsistent as a winger. I must agree. But then I would say the same for Nani and for Di Maria, as 2 further examples. (Some) people rave about Robben & Ribery at Munich but are they consistently good? My point is - can you name ANY top class winger who is very consistant? Valencia can be relatively consistant but even he has very quiet games where he doesn't produce much and cannot affect the game. IMO winger is the most naturally 'inconsistant' position on the pitch as it is the position where you are most likely to find yourself isolated from the rest of the team. It is easier for CM'ers to appear consistant through 90%+ pass completion rates etc. whereas when the winger gets the ball he must try to take on the defense and put the ball on the head/foot of the striker, which is more of a 50/50 situation. Perhaps we are too hard on wingers sometimes?

Gav

Gav i agree that the role of a winger is by nature a incossistant role bearing in mind wingers are based on their end product and if the strikers are having an off day then it will appear the wingers haven't done a good job which isn't always the case.

But with Bale he is a very limited winger in that he doesn't have the ability to mix it up. I'd much rather have Nani who can beat a man on the inside or the outside and he can play on both wings with good effect where as Bale can only beat his man on the outside and is only effective on the left. In some way's Bale is like Valencia but without the consistancy that Valencia has(this is due to Bale's poor technique compared to Valencia). So ask yourself would you pick Valencia ahead of Nani if he was only as consistant as Nani was? This is the reason i wouldn't buy Bale as a winger, infact i highly doubt anyone would be interested in signing him if he was right footed.

There is a hang up that we need a left footed left winger yet most teams play with a right footer on the left and a left footer on the right now as tactically you'll keep more possession if the winger cuts inside rather than just whipping in a cross. So i see no reason why we can't play with a right footer on the left if we just adapt our tactic's alittle.

I think spending a fortune on a incomplete LB or a poor winger is a bad investment which is why i wouldn't sign Bale. Blackett has more potential as a LB than Bale and Brady has the potential to be a more "complete" winger than Bale.

Shappy

16 Jun 2012 21:56:28
Just heard from a reliable source United have agreed a deal for Athletic Bilbao's Markel Susaeta. Tribal football has the the scoop and it will be released tomorrow on their site. Keep a look out for it!

N

Was it ed02 who posted this 2 hours before you ??

lol

HAHA

Gogo Ed 002

Definaetly copied Ed002... Anyway I wouldn't believe anything on tribal football and why are we buying a winger surely centre midfield is far more important

fearny

Damn just posted same rumour in the rumours site (Thats what happens when you think you are a clever git) ha

Pardoe

16 Jun 2012 20:31:05
Fergie is buying and building his team for THE TOMORROW.
He's often said he wants to leave a young and winning formula for whoever takes the hotseat.
These are players 23yrs & under either bought or promoted.

DeGea, Smalling, Jones, Kagawa, Powell, Henriques.
Plus with Cleverley, Welbeck, Fabio, Rafael and the likes of Amos, King, Petrucci, Brady, Fyers, cole, Lingard, Tunnercliffe & the Keane twins all pushing to play for the
first team.

I'm worried these players may not be in the "new" managers plans in 2 seasons time. Most high profile managers have their own ideas about building teams or bringing players in that they can work with.

I understand that Fergie will have a lot of say in who his replacement will be.

"I understand that Fergie will have a lot of say in who his replacement will be"

I guess that's the key...the new manager will be one who will be seen to carry on the legacy IMO. We will put a lot of time and effort into making sure we get the right man, we certainly won't be bringing in someone who will want to make a number of 'world class' signings to build a new team around. It will be someone who is happy to build on the legacy and someone who Fergie will have given his blessing to

I guess the obvous choice bearing that in mind would be an ex player but would Solskjaer be ready by then? Can't see Hughes coming back or Keane. Perhaps Giggs or Sholes will get involved, in coaching at least, by the time Fergie retires

Gav

Blanc maybe?

Or Blanc! Thanks no-name

Gav

16 Jun 2012 20:22:49
So assuming I AM KLOOT has another meaning should we assume RainFishTrombone is also another anagram.

I have been out all day so havn't been on the site but at fisrt glance nobody seems to have a clue what I AM KLOOT means - or does somebody know?

Marky Mark {Ed007's Note - RainFishTrombone and a few others know what I AM KLOOT means.}

Ed oo7

Any chance of you spilling the beans?

Marky Mark {Ed007's Note - I don't eat beans and Ed002 shouts at me if I make a mess of our house.}

I AM KLOOT is a manchester band, thats where i know it from {Ed007's Note - Maybe they are all passing a laptop between them and posting..}

Ed, just seen on google that KLOOT means "testicle" (in dutch) so is it " I AM TESTICLE" ?

JK92 {Ed007's Note - I said that earlier on. It also means a clown with no feet. In ancient Mayan scriptures it also describes a fish with no knees.}

Is it
IM A TOOL K

Named after Manchester rock band from the 90s....maybe he is an ex member.....am i right!

KAMIL TOO
camel toe lol

TRUMORS

Or maybe its I'M A Klot with a stutter

Pardoe

16 Jun 2012 20:06:54
I just am wondering what a lot of people are making of the Bale rumours/the Bale situation. There is no doubt that we have interest there, a few years ago we made attempts two consecutive years in a row to sign him, and if he is available then i don't see why we wouldn't go for him.

To be honest, i think that he would be an excellent left back...some may laugh at this, but why not? We have a hard working squad, and Bale is no slouch, he can get up and down that side very easily. Having perhaps Bale and Fabio in the future would be good options..

Signing Bale would give us that left footed player that we so badly want, and would also mean we have cover for the whole of the left hand side. I think possibly we would be willing to pay more for Bale than we would for Modric due to the age gap. Thoughts?

RedDevil19

Why not?

Can you see United paying £30m+ for a LB? Especially with Fryers and Blackett coming through

Gav

Would you pay 30 plus mill for a LB
jred

Bale is a left back and left winger rolled into one. Perfect fit for us IMO.

Selling Nani to part-finance the deal would be great business.

Halesini

100% agree with you, he'd be a great addition and be a great left back as he is accomplished there!

U.T.I.D

Halesini

You say Bale is both LW and LB rolled into 1...trouble is he can only play in one of those positions at any one time. So if you're talking about selling Nani too I truly hope we wouldn't be playin Bale at LB (with I assume Young at LW) as that would hardly be a step forward at all!

Gav

16 Jun 2012 17:31:20
I am kloot, does it have anything to do with bribery ED? ;)


Anon {Ed002's Note - No, of course not.}

16 Jun 2012 19:00:00
Hi again, just wanted to know of the eds can give me any info on the player Criscito (spelling)?! Hes about 24 I think, and looks really good at left back, I've based this on clips on YouTube but he looks to have real good potential to be the next evra but better!

U.T.I.D

Hes under investigation for match fixing tho

16 Jun 2012 17:15:01
Or 'TOOK MAIL' of course.

Fred {Ed002's Note - No banana for you. Be at one with it and try to think on multiple levels (which is a real big clue).}

Is the 'OT' at the end of KLOOT short for Old Trafford?

I have no idea what the name means tbh but it's fun guessing

Which regulars actually now?

Does the 'K' stand for Kenny or Keane?

haha...I'm probably a long way off

Gav

IM A TOOL K?

JK92

Is i am kloot an anagram for talk i moo ?
sparky

Is it based around the word klit ?
tommy {Ed002's Note - And the Manchester United fans tell me they are bright.}

Ed002 I've come to the conclusion you don't know what it stands for...you don't do you? ; )

I can't believe you've been having us all on all this time.....

Gav

(reverse psychology, or is it?) {Ed002's Note - Or is it? A very apt thought.}

Ed002 you're such a tease...or are you?

Right, I've lost myself now, time for bed!

Gav

16 Jun 2012 17:09:12
All I got from I AM KLOOT lately, Ed002, is 'TOOK LIAM' but I wouldn't know what that means. Is that closer?

Fred {Ed002's Note - Closer than what?}

Sorry, should have been more blunt. Is that correct? You're really enjoying this aren't you?!

Fred {Ed002's Note - I didn't start it, but no it isn't correct.}

This is all balls

16 Jun 2012 16:33:59
Does anyone know when the players playing at Euro 2012 and the Olympics will return to the squad for pre-season?

fearny

Depends when they get knocked out I guess. They will need a break/holiday too before coming back

Gav

16 Jun 2012 15:45:05
How much game-time do folks think Nick Powell will get next season and where would you see him fitting in best ?

Have said previously I think Kagawa will be a first choice Attacking Midfielder / In The Hole player behind Rooney. I see Powell being his understudy though in 1213 season.

Give him a chance to shine when coming off the bench and a first choice when we are resting players before the European games etc and when playing in League/FA Cup.


Halesini

If he doesn't get loaned, then depending on the cup draws i think he'll play in almost all the League Cup and probably the early stages of the FA Cup

Mort.

How much game time did pogba get
Jred

How good where the cup draws we got? Would you have played him in the 2 fa cup games against City and Liverpool?

He got time in the League Cup, not a lot but he got as much game time as mst kids age usually got.

"How much game time did pogba get
Jred"

Fergie tends to give more playing time to youngsters we have bought e.g. Smalling, Jones, Rafael compared with players who come thru' the academy e.g. Pogba (don't ask me why)

I also have a feeling Fergie was a aware of the upcoming issue with Pogba staying/going last summer and resultantly put less faith in him because 1) he thought he should sign first before being rewarded and 2) he didn't want to put Pogba in the shop window for clubs to go after him for free this summer

Gav

16 Jun 2012 15:21:23
Hey guys first time poster long time reader
First thing i have to say is why does everyone repete everything that has been either posted on the manutd website or from the papers? I can understand one person repeting the info but 10 people saying the same thing... Come on guys use dont need to post a rumour from the gossip section of the site as im sure everyone on here checks the site daily
Secondly has anyone got any info regarding berba? Is he staying or going? And how much would we get for him, if he does go do you think macheda will get another crack in the first team or will we bring in another young striker
Cheers keegz10

Surely your suggestion would to a certain extent make this site obsolete? Is its sole purpose not for people to post rumours? With reference to the frequency the site updates periodically, several people may post a rumour unaware it's already been posted. Finally before getting hostile with people on the site from regurgitating rumours perhaps go to the source and tell the papers not to as well if it concerns you that much!

LUKE CHADWICKS LOVE CHILD

Keegz10 I make you right this site should be about stuff not in the papers or on sky sports news. What is the point in repeating sky. I have seen several journalists repeat this site so I know it gets read. Love Child you need to do something about your anger. I AM KLOOT

I don't mind people sharing reported stories on this site at all. In fact it's good because it will tend to spark a debate as to whether we agree with the article or reported targets etc.

However, I do agree the repetitive nature of many posts is annoying. Surely you would scroll down briefly to see the previous 20 posts on Hazard (for example) and think, there's no point in me repeating this!

The number of different people who tried to claim they 'broke the Kagawa news' on this site was a chuckle...you can't have all done so

KLOOT - I too have noticed 'rumours' from this site ending up on some of the less reputable online 'sources' a couple days later...very susicious!

Gav

16 Jun 2012 14:39:47
2 names ive not seen us linked with but would be great signings, however unlikely

Philip Lahm-great player, good at right back, brilliant at left back. Good in the tackle, comfortable on the ball and can attack too. Available? Probably not, may fancy a change after years at bayern and at 28(i think) could be his last chance.

Jack Whilshire- My ideal signing. Brightest young english talent out there, has everything to become a top top player. Available? No chance but if their biggest players keep going and wenger gets lured away who knows, we should be there if he becomes available.

Neither will be happening i know but id take these two above all the names we have been linked with over the past few months..............


Parks.

Ideal. But will never happen i'm afraid. Wilshere especially would complete our team.

REDFAITH

Lahm hasn't ruled out a move to Madrid this summer

Serioulsy doubt Lahm would leave Bayern and what would Madrid want him for?

As for Wilshire don't you think he's just a little injury prone. After the Hargreaves fiasco i think we should stay well clear of players with repetitive injury problems.

Ill be honest im not well up on what the details of the injuries he's had are, if they are the same injury over and over again then it would be a concern but wasnt one a broken foot? If so cant really label him injury prone, could happen to anyone at anytime. As for Lahm, ive never seem him linked with anyone, seems the kind of player who will see out his days at bayern, pitty as he'd be great.


Parks.

I think Wilshire's injury's are a real worry he just doesn't seem to be able to recover fully, which is worrying. I'm not convinved he will be ready for the start of next season but that's just a hunch

That aside - I would agree these 2 players would make us a great team in an ideal world

Gav

16 Jun 2012 14:01:25
"Mali Otok - a small town in Slovenia..

Or that band.

Joe {Ed002's Note - Work around the letter "K".}"

___________________________________

I'm sorry to say Ed002, I do not understand.

Joe {Ed002's Note - Not to worry Joe.}

Okay then!

Joe

16 Jun 2012 11:49:33
i for one can't understand where all this talk about baines is coming from am i the only one who doesn't think he's good enough for utd !!i also hope that saf doesn't come out with the old chesnut that "we finished 2nd in the league lost out on the last day and by the last minute " 'cause most utd fans KNOW this current utd squad ISN'T good enough !

16 Jun 2012 09:39:26
laurent blanc has realised very sooner that evra is no more the player he was, so he quikly played clinchy there in next match and result a clean sheet!!! i hope fergie realise it too now.. and spare us from same agony again and again.
rodio17

16 Jun 2012 09:15:38
End the interest in Benzema & Lewandowski.
They are both 23 nearly 24. In 2/3 yrs OUR DANNY
will be superior to these two.

21yr old England International, playing upfront with a World Class player in Rooney. Will and can only get better.

Quick feet, decent control, pace, got a trick or two.
Needs to work on his finishing. 15 goals next season please.

1st Team Rooney (in the hole) & Welbeck
2nd Team Kagawa & Chicharito
Extras Powell or Petrucci & W.Keane, King or Henriquez

We got some firepower for the future.

Kagawa will be first 11, but I hope alongside Welbeck and Rooney... Somehow ;)

DodgyBanter

2nd team Kagawa?? Are you serious? We have been crying out for a midfielder who gets forward and gets goals and links play and when we pay 12-17m for one you think he'll be 2nd team? He will play either behind rooney or wide on the left, Welbeck will be benched.

Parks.

Kagawa is currently a better player than Welbeck (I know they don't play I the same position) Rooney is currently a better player than Welbeck so Rooney up top with Kagawa in the hole should be our first choice. Also Welbeck will most likely be better than Lewandowski but saying he will be better than Benzema is IMO far fetched. Benzema is world class he has scored plenty in many competitions, Welbeck has a long way to go to be as good as him IMO

Rjmanutd

Can't see Kagawa being brought in as anything else but first choice. So if playing 4-4-1-1 its Kagawa in the hole and Rooney reverting to out-and-out striker.

I'm still not convinced by Welbeck over a seasons performance though admittedly his cheeky finish for England was a nice touch of class. I thought he came across very well in his interview afterwards btw.

Benzema is a definite no-go and I dont think we are in for Lewandowski either.

Uncle Fergie starts every season with 4 strikers and we have that now if classing Kagawa's 'in the hole' as a striker, i.e. with Rooney, Welbeck and Little Pea too.

Appreciate there's Powell too as a further attacking midfield option though think we are buying him for the future.

Whatever cash we have to spend now will surely be spent on a Central Midfield berth.

Halesini

Wellbeck will be better than Benzema?!

Did anyone else notice Danny had a poor game last night apart from his goal? His close control is suspect at times and he spends to much time doing 'linkup' (uite often losing the ball) rather than trying to get on the end of something. I do rate him and think he will develop but some fans put him on WAY to high a pedastal at this point in time

Gav

16 Jun 2012 06:09:23
Why are so many people criticizing Welbeck? The Swedish defenders were very precise with their tackling and he made a couple of great runs after turning on his marker and it took, great tackles to stop him. His finish was not lucky at all, i don't know where people get that from! It was completely intentional and a true striker's instinctive finish. Give the lad credit where its due. He certainly isn't the finished article but has time on his side and is progressing every year.

Ed007 makes a case saying would you buy him if he wasn't at United, and my answer is yes, he is at the same level of the likes of Lewandowski. Are there any other strikers of his age that are developing so well? Not many out there. I would rather ask people, would you be criticizing Welbeck for all the small flaws in his game which will vanish with experience if he wasn't at United? We have a chance of developing a good young english striker but it seems people or obsessed with fancy foreign names, or are expecting him to be at the level of experienced complete strikers who are a lot ahead of him in terms of age and playing time.

Walcott finally seemed to have added a footballing brain to the pace to burn that he has got. Much better than the absolutely horrible Milner, not that Young was any better. Rooney will be back, so seems quite good right now. If only, Cleverley and Wilshere would have been there...

REDFAITH

I would say from my point of view that were Welbeck not playing at United I wouldn't buy him. For the same reason that I've never been interested in Defoe, Bent, Sturridge. They don't appear world class, and they didn't come through our youth system. I'd either be looking to buy Benzema or to promote someone already at our club.

I don't have the best footballing brain, and I am not too proud to admit that when a striker isn't scoring many goals - I don't rate them that highly. I am very pleased that Welbeck is at United, and hope that he continues to flourish as he has done recently, however were he to be playing at Sunderland I'd probably see him as someone who Liverpool might end up buying. I do hope he turns around next season and scores fifteen plus goals - but if not then I'm not sure we can be building up to the level of world class.

Just to talk about Walcott for a second as well - I agree obviously that he was a good substitution but his goal was a huge goalkeeping error - no idea why Isakson is falling over. 99/100 that'll be saved. And he played a decent ball into Welbeck for the third goal, but really didn't do a lot apart from drag some defenders his way. Were it not for the skill of Welbeck, that was never going to be a goal. By no means was it a world class performance, it was just a great substitution. Bring on someone with pace, against tired Swedish slow-pokes..

Joe

Totally agree with you about cleverly and Wilshire

Mad Hatter

If Wellbeck was at another club I wouldn't be saying 'sign him up' and I honestly don't think may others would be. I certainly don't think he would be starting for England

My critisism of Wellbeck has always been constructive though as he IS at United and has come thru' the ranks so I really want him to succeed with us. But some people are just seeing the good in him without seeing the bad IMO

His positives - pace, athletisism, vision and linkup and of course his youth!

Negatives - inconsistant first touch (was terrible last night), lack of presence in goal scoring areas, lack of 'clinicalness' including header's I've noticed

Do I think Wellbeck will be 'good' in the future? Yes. Do I think he will be 'great' in the future? Not convinced YET. Should he be in our starting XI next season against the top teams. NO, not if we have ambitions of getting the PL back form City and competing in the CL

The OP states that lot's are 'critisizing' Wellbeck. Well for me it's just that I don't think he's good enough to start, YET.

For me - many have come on here a heralded his 'great' goal last night! (It was great TBF) but I ask those of you to watch the game back and see what he did apart from that finish? If we played Barca or Bayern or Real tomorrow in a knock out CL game...could we depend on Wellbeck to help us overcome such opponents?

Last question - if Wellbeck was a Liverpool player...what would people on this site be saying about him and his performance last night?

Gav

p.s. sorry for long post