Manchester United Banter Archive March 24 2015

24 Mar 2015 17:30:28
I've seen it said on here by a couple of people that we only beat two top 4 contenders etc and not title hopefuls. Well I have to be honest but I'm sorry we have not had hardly anything to shout about this past two years and I cannot remember us winning at anfield so deservedly for a long time so everybody is entitled to get a little excited if you ask me.

We limited our arch enemies to 1 deflected shot on target on their own patch which is a great effort. I thought our style of play was very similar to barcelona in the first half the way we were up their arses and didn't let them play and forced them into a lot of mistakes because they simply could not handle us. LVG has got a lot wrong and I haven't been his biggest fan but you have to give him credit for the last 2 games and the tactics he has given the players. Its sweet to win at anfield as its only happended twice I believe in 8 years but we need to finish the job now but there is definitely at last signs of encouragement and all United fans I know are starting to feel that bit of excitement again for the future

24 Mar 2015 12:34:28
Hi eds, If you could spare some time on this. With all the discussions here going in about the incomings.Is there any talk of players on the way out. I personally thing one of Rafael/Valecia will be moved on. With all the rumours of CB's I also think two of Evans/Jones/Smalling could be moved on. If you have any info regarding Periera and Nick Powell situations.
Regards,

{Ed002's Note - No idea, sorry. Much will depend on other matters.}

24 Mar 2015 23:05:29
Apparently psg made a very good offer but Pereira prefers to stay in Manchester. We were due to go back with a final take it or leave it offer which is nowhere near psgs.

24 Mar 2015 11:03:34
Well that was a very satisfying win, and a well deserved one too. First off I would like to put to bed these ideas that we one due to long ball football. It is merely sour grapes. Only 17% of our passes were long balls, which compared to 14% for Liverpool shows we only played slightly more long balls than them, and considering how much more possession we had than them maybe it would have been closer than 3% difference if we had an equal amount of the ball?

Did we play long passes on Sunday? yes but certainly not enough to to brand us a long ball team, we played well, we kept the ball well, we linked up well and moved the ball with more propose and speed. Playing 433 with Mata drifting in and Fellaini playing between the lines completely confused Liverpool and they had no answer for it. Personally I would have preferred to see Januzaj come on instead of Di Maria but then we would probably not have had Mata's beautiful winner. So no complaints really.

What the main point of my post is though is the difference in recent weeks compared to what has come previously. So far this season if you were going to pick out our best performers you would come up with names such as Smalling, Young, Fellaini, Blind and of course De Gea. All of them are good players but none are world class, they are the players you expect to see solid 6's or 7's from but aren't the guys who wow you during a game and put on a performance. Up until recently our performances have been laboured but then only our labouring type players have performed. In recent weeks both Mata and Rooney have performed to a level we expect and suddenly we look a good team. We have several players who could be considered "world class" DDG, Di Maria, Mata, Rooney, RvP and Falcao. And over the season how many have consistently performed for us? Rooney has had a few games where he has had a 20-30 minute spell where he's played well, Di Maria has had a few good games at the start of the season. But what of Mata? of RvP? or Falcao? How can you expect world class performances when none of your world class players are performing? That is the key to us finishing in the top four and to perform well each week. We need at least one of our world class players putting in a performance that justifies that tag. Without world class players then we are only a functional team and can only expect functional performances.

So what do we do from here on? Well Falcao hasn't shown he is worth a start over any of our other strikers, which is a shame as he had such ability. RvP has been given chance after chance after chance and has only shown up once or twice at most if i'm being generous. That leaves us with Mata, Rooney and Di Maria. Well Mata has shown he should be playing in recent weeks, and Rooney is our captain and at the moment our best striker so they should both be starting. That leaves Di Maria, he should be handled carefully and slowly be reintroduced to help him build up his confidence. We have invested too much money in him to just cut him out now. Besides even if he is destined to move on we need him getting game time to try and improve his form and keep his value up. And as shown on Sunday even out of form he still creates 2/3 chances in a game. Januzaj also needs to be playing more, 433 should suit him well and he is one of our players who has the potential to become world class.

Onward and upward, we need to use these results and more importantly performances as the spring board to launch us as high up the table as possible and build confidence for next season. Not just confidence within our squad but confidence from players managers and fans outside of our club that we are moving in the right direction and on our way back to being a dominant force again. It will make Ed Woodwards job in the summer much easier.

24 Mar 2015 12:37:21
Fair point Shappy and some good analysis but when you speak of the no show from 'world class' players and the lack of 'world class' performaces this season I'll ask you this, what do you expect?

Rooney has been playing as a deep CM the majority of the year, Herrera and Mata have been overlooked on countless occasions, Di Maria (yes he has been horrid this year) has been shifted from wingback to striker to centre mid to number ten and then some throughout his first bedding in season. On top of that RVP could touch the ball once in 90mins and still be the first name on the team sheet the following week.

So if your theory is that 'world class' players on the pitch conjure up 'world class' performaces then who is accountable for those odd/poor/horrendous decisions?

24 Mar 2015 13:28:48
JMB, are you implying it is the manager's fault if our "world class strikers" can't put the ball in the goal when they have good chances, because that's been the situation with Falcao and RVP. The problem is the premise. RVP is no longer world class and Falcao has yet to reattain that status. Both have been very disappointing this season, even taking into account the not unreasonable criticism related to our tactics/slow build up play.

What I think is refreshing is that all of a sudden we are starting to see goals coming from our midfielders. That's the key to winning championships. Because once the rotation of attacking options becomes unpredictable, the defensive pattern becomes uprooted. That's the premise behind possession football. It's great to have a 25 goal a year striker, but if you get nothing from your midfield, it won't be enough. In the end it's a team effort, and we can but hope that finally, as we move into squeaky bum time, the squad as a whole will continue the improvement of the last 3 weeks (I'm including the arsenal game here because I thought we played quite well).

The best part of the whole shebang is seeing Dr. Phil so exuberant, slapping old Giggsy around.

24 Mar 2015 15:03:01
shawthing:"The best part of the whole shebang is seeing Dr. Phil so exuberant, slapping old Giggsy around."

. . .


LOL that made me laugh mate.

Giggs gave the manager a look that said: We have got these scousers by the short and curlys boss.

24 Mar 2015 15:57:37
Juan, It's not about stuffing all your best players on the pitch at the same time, its about finding a system to get the best out of them.
With all the injuries and lack of form it has been differcult to fully accertain what that is. Many people have had many different theories with formations, playing personel and tactics all debated. Should we play possession based football? Counter attacking? Pressing or sitting deep? Who should play upfront, Rooney? RvP? Falcao? In midfield, Di Maria? Mata? Hererra? Fellaini? Carrick? Blind? Januzaj? There have been so many opinions and so many options that it has been hard for anyone to truly point out which is best. I can't remember anyone coming up with the tactics/system/player combination we are currently using so we were all wrong.

What we have now is a system that in theory should get the best out of Rooney, Mata, Januzaj and Di Maria, while also keeping a balance between attack and defence So we can control games but also have the ability to open teams up.

Mata has been quality when he played as a No.10 but left us open in the middle, yet if played out wide he lost that ability to pop up and score or create that chance centrally. So now LvG has come up with a false winger type role for him where he doesn't expose the centre of the pitch with his lack of physicality but can still create and score those chances.

Rooney is back up top, mostly because of the injury to RvP and the lack of form shown by Falcao. Those two not being involved has allowed us to switch and play one up top which has given us more defensive balance.

Many things have come together at the same time which has led to us being where we are now. It's not as simple as getting your world class players on the pitch but putting things in place so they can make the most of their ability and therefore provide the most for the team.

24 Mar 2015 22:47:59
"I can't remember anyone coming up with the tactics/system/player combination we are currently using so we were all wrong."

Shappy I disagree. I think many, many folk called for this team and these tactics to be used, myself included.

25 Mar 2015 10:26:31
JMB,

You wanted Mata on the right side of a front 3? I have searched through the pages and can't see you or anyone saying that mate, show me I am wrong if you like.

24 Mar 2015 02:42:20
For all those who say we just hoof the ball upfield count how many passes were made in the build up to Mate's first ball. Note also that we retained possession under pressure and did not give the ball away. This is what LVG has been instilling in the team. We will need to play more like this not only to win here but to compete against Barca BM and Re in Europe if we get there.

24 Mar 2015 11:07:23
We were playing long ball though. We were just accurate with our passing and our midfield supported the big man properly.

We played some very neat intricate football of course at times as shown for the goals, but for the main our tactic was to suck Liverpool in, then hit Fellaini so our support players had space to operate in. It worked a treat. In previous games we have either rushed the pass, miss-hit the long pass or simply not been able to support Fellaini quick enough due to a lack of mobility or outlets out wide and inside. Rooney being mobile, wingers and Herrera are the reason it worked.

LVG got his tactics spot on, but anybody saying we did not play a predominantly long ball game is kidding themselves. It was a great tactic as it worked and Fellaini was awesome, but he is not picked for anything other than to be an outlet and to cause mayhem. Great, but it's what Moyes wanted to do and what us fans have been bitching about for ages.

24 Mar 2015 11:50:18
Depends on what you define as 'long ball football'. It's not like we stuck Fellaini on the last man and had him flicking it on to Rooney (I call this the Heskey/Owen tactic). Fellaini was just a hold up player, a tactic used by plenty of teams. Costa holding it up for Hazard etc is a good example.

For me long ball football is lumping it up to the top hoping you get a decent bounce or a defensive mistake and that is simply not what was done at all.

24 Mar 2015 12:42:29
It was most definitely long ball. A long ball is a long ball. The key difference this time around was the long ball was tactical. Felliani was pulling wide right, left, deep and forward to pull Liverpool defenders away from the central area so he could knock it on to a teammate in space. Those types of long balls I can tolerate because I can see the 'why' if you like.

The long balls against other teams this season such as the West Ham game was just hoof and hope which was quite frankly embarrassing.

24 Mar 2015 12:56:21
Beast, re:Shappy's post, 17% long ball.I didn't think we played a long ball game at all either .United won.They played well.If that's a long ball game, I'd be happy with that level of performance and intensity until the end of the season.

24 Mar 2015 13:10:59
TBL - definitely happy with it because it worked and it wasn't total long ball, but just making it clear what our primary tactic was. 17% stat doesn't tell the true story. We passed a lot of intricate balls deep, luring them to then hit it long, I was surprised it was as high as 17% to be honest.

How many saves did Mignolet make, hardly any? That stat doesn't tell the story about how we dominated either. Stats are pointless, trust the eyes.

24 Mar 2015 13:07:52
Well it wasn't like watching Barcelona or Bayern, or the old Swansea/Arsenal.

We outclassed them with our short game and took full advantage of the long game. But the key tactic was to lure and then clip it long and build 50 yards further up in one move. I would class that as long ball, but certainly not hoof ball, which is what we had been doing.

24 Mar 2015 13:57:31
Anyone who thinks that was long ball never saw graham Taylors Watford or the crazy gang.

24 Mar 2015 14:51:01
Different extremes MrE- I could say anyone that thought that was intricate football haven't watched Bayern or Barcelona!

24 Mar 2015 14:44:00
How long's a piece of string? I think we had 4 shots on target, 2 goals. Not a bad return. Just out of interest, does anyone know what Rooney's penalty record is? Who else do you think could take them? Carrick's a cool head, Blind maybe?

24 Mar 2015 15:15:57
Anyone but Phil Jones!

I imagine Mata would be ideal.

24 Mar 2015 15:35:09
Beast, how can you say Fellaini is only used for that tactic? Not like he ran in behind a spurs defence and neatly finished a good goal the other day? Also when he plays for Belgium do they use any sort of long ball tactic or have him as a target man? They don't. Considering Belgium have a bunch of decent midfielders I think it's safe to say there is more to Fellaini's game than you can obviously see even if you don't want to. Not saying he's a top quality CM but give the guy a break.

24 Mar 2015 16:01:21
Oz - I like Fellaini, he gives us so much that we lack. Aerial threat attacking and defending, power and an outlet to build from if we struggle to break teams down.

I have been calling for Fellaini to be played long before LVG did it. But let's not get carried away with what he is great at and what he is ok at.

He is not a holding midfielder and he isn't quick enough to cover the ground as a typical central midfielder, his passing and technique is poor for a possession based game, but his attributes far outweigh his negatives if used effectively. LVG is doing so and wigs off to him for that.

24 Mar 2015 17:02:04
Phil Jones taking a penalty, now that would definitely be long ball! He'd probably injure himself.

24 Mar 2015 18:20:39
No ones calling it intricate either. Again with using one extreme to back your own argument whilst trying to use the opposite to bolster said argument.

24 Mar 2015 23:17:38
Sorry beast but that wasn't long ball football! Long ball football is, as ed001 has compared us to Wimbledon back in the day! Hitting the target man time and time again for the flick on and nod down. This is totally different to playing a 30 yard pass to his chest to bring down occasionally. I suspect it's because it was Fellaini. Had it been say young we were doing this with everyone wouldn't be calling it long ball tactics. It's an excuse to use it. Gerrard and scholes are famed for hitting long balls all over the place . Drogba was used constantly for the same reasons. Didn't hear everyone call Chelsea long ball. There's a difference between long ball tactics and playing the odd 40 yard pass! Getting pretty bored of it all to he honest!

{Ed001's Note - sorry but you are wrong, it was long balls in the air for him to contest, and win, which is why it was long balls. If they were Scholes-like balls in to his feet, then that would be a pass. A ball in the air for a big man to fight and win, that is what you did. It worked, so I don't know why you are all lying to yourself trying to pretend it was any different. Oh and I do agree that Jose will also often use those tactics.}

23 Mar 2015 23:38:59
Not sure why I didn't post this earlier, as it occurred on New Years eve, and we're 3 months down the line but hey-ho!

I was at a family wedding in Donegal, Ireland in a fishing town called Killybegs. Seamus Coleman was born and raised in Killybegs, where his family still live. He owns a hotel in the town, which is now run by his father, forgotten his name.

I was talking to him about Seamus - fuelled by drink I must admit - and he told me how his son was a massive United fan, and it was his biggest dream to play for the club. He told me that where Seamus lives now would also be perfect, as he wouldn't have to sell his house/move house for access reasons.

Interestingly, he did tell me that should there be an opportunity for a move to occur, he believed his son would do what he could to get the move to happen.

As I said, not sure why it took me this long to post, but here we are. We all know he would be expensive, but could him trying to push it through make it easier?

24 Mar 2015 05:25:44
I very much hope this is the case Mpez. Splendid right back and not bad at getting forward either. He would be my primary choice for the RB slot and I think the lad has learned his trade well and is now at the perfect age to step up at United. I would very much enjoy a quality Irishman back in the first team.

24 Mar 2015 08:42:59
JMB/MPez does he count as homegrown?

24 Mar 2015 10:09:00
I believe he does MB.

24 Mar 2015 10:31:46
I don't think so MB. I think he played in Ireland until he was around 20 years old. I could be wrong though!

24 Mar 2015 12:54:19
You can check this on premierleague.com however he is not HG.