Manchester United Banter Archive September 28 2014

28 Sep 2014 23:51:55
Just wondering, who do people think we still need to get rid of? For me its Anderson, Fellaini, Young as well as those on loan i.e. Nani, Cleverley, Zaha & Hernandez.

I would say the first on the list should be Anderson - how many games has he actually played over the past few seasons? always struggling with injuries, not being fit. It seems he doesn't have the commitment/mentality to be part of the first team and should had been moved on a lot earlier.

Nani has had enough chances to prove himself but, he seems to have lost his confidence or has other issues.

Young/Valencia started off well but with injuries they seem to have gone backwards. Especially Valencia, who gets into great positions only to mess up his final delivery into the box.
Given their age and performances, both will eventually be moved on once we get some replacements.

Cleverley really hasn't kicked on from his good start and not helped with injuries as well as the managerial changes.

Hernandez, very one-dimensional - a great poacher. He will score a ton of goals if he gets the right service and would fit in a team who play direct football.

Fellaini/Zaha - Zaha has not had enough chances to prove his worth, although he has not done enough when given a chance. Fellaini - can't see him fitting into LVG's plans as of yet and really don't think LVG rates him enough to be part of first team.
Zaha might still get a chance if he does well at Palace.

Smalling/Evans - Although good in some games, they have been far too inconsistent and their frequent injuries hasn't helped either.
Might see both of them moved on if we find the right quality CBs.


Hope we do make some signings in January and are able to clearout most of the above players within next summer.

I agree on all the above. And I hope zaha does get a chance if he can sort his personal life and mature.
On the rest, I am in full agreement that all should be moved on if suitable replacements can be found either from the u21's or by buying better players.
I still like to see Thorpe, Pereira been given a chance, both play in positions that we are weak at.

28 Sep 2014 18:39:11
There is a discussion further down the page about united meaning more to a supporter if there from manchester.
whats peoples view on this and on the 2 comments below.

" I'm not saying anyone is any less of a United fan for living outside Manchester and I'm not saying they don't love the club. But having not been there, grown up with it, lived it, breathed it, taken socks off your die hard city fan mates from early school upwards etc, it is not the same experience, like it or not."

"i have no problem with out of town/country supporters, unlike some. But, for me, unless you have grown up immersed in the club and grown up along side other local united/city supporters and the huge rivalry that it brings, i don't feel you can understand it fully."

28 Sep 2014 19:26:13
Well personally Jred I agree totally, couldn't have put it better myself.

Jred

I grew up in the Manchester suburbs from the very early 60's onwards. Having those who support your greatest rivals close by every day can be challenging because you have to defend the club and its results every day both at school and at work.

I don't think United means more to a local supporter but the local supporter has to be more proactive every day, deal with the local rivalries. You immerse yourself in the great city that Manchester is and the rivalries. I have always found City fans to have a chip on their shoulder, always trying to play a oneupmanship game they couldn't win, they had a touch of arrogance I found hard to understand but I lived with it every day and it makes you deal with the rivalry in a sharper way. You have to remember through my youth there was no social media like there is now, things were sorted locally the next day at school or work where everyone else, if not United, was generally a City or Liverpool fan. Having taken daily stick you are more vulnerable to the results locally and that is probably why people say it means more. I know having lived away from Manchester for some time there is a different dynamic to daily life when you are not immersed in the banter locally.
Hope that helps answer your question

Redman
I see what you are saying and agree with most of it but the op discussion was more to do with what the team means to a supporter outside of manchester as opposed to a local .rather than united/city rivalry

28 Sep 2014 21:12:29
Exactly what I was trying to get at Redman, going through everything we did daily, the thought of anyone doing what Rooney and others have, is unforgivable.

On the other hand, most of the match going reds along with our superb away support keep singing his name. He even got a standing ovation after getting sent off. Rooney Rooney chants at the Chelsea game last year when people like Brendan wanted him sold paint a diff picture. Or may be Brendan is going to shift the goal post and say supporters from X locality of Manchester are the only ones who can understand the clubs culture and ethos. By the way, what Rooney done is far far better than saying that I am being treated like a slave. But then you can cut the player you like a lot of slack.

Deeps.

28 Sep 2014 21:35:45
Can I just add in my eyes to the end of my last post. Don't want to be misconstrued.

Brendan

Actually living in Manchester would make you more supportive of someone doing what Rooney did because you band together against the rivals trying to belittle the club. I was in Manchester when Cantona did what he did at Palace and we all got behind him because like Rooney he is or was one of our own. Social media has spread this wider than the locality of Manchester

99% of Manchester United supporter live outside Manchester.

Speaking as one of them I am appalled by any sort of spurious reflected glory based on residence or regional purity. Smacks of racial purity.

Old Trafford is not even in Manchester.

As someone who wasn't born and raised in manchester i have constantly had to defend my support of the club to friends and neighbours.

At times I have been ridiculed for supporting the club due to me not being a local lad. However it doesn't stop me loving the club any less than any other fan.

I saved up the money i earnt from odd jobs and allowance for almost 9 months to be able to afford that first trip to old trafford. To feel the atmosphere in the build up, the excitment on peoples faces, the smell of the city and to then see the inside of the stadium where i had watched my team on tv so many times are all experiences i will never forget and still cherish today.

I wil not stand he and say i am more of a supporter than a local kid and vice versa. I do know that if we win it makes my week and if we lose my partner knows to treat me extra sensitively for a few days.

I hope one day that these pathetic debates will stop as we all love the same team.

As any true fan I will however cherish the moment i get to take my son to the ground as much as the next father and even though he is only 1 week old i am already making plans for the trip and hope to be stood next to a number of you singing my heart out with my son in my arms while he wears his first united kit.

28 Sep 2014 22:02:07
More supportive of Rooney holding the club to ransom twice? Really Redman?

28 Sep 2014 22:04:39
Basingstoke you sound like a City fan.
Where were United founded?

As a Liverpool fan who was born and raised within a mile of Anfield I think you raise an interesting point. Personally I don't believe that those fans who were raised miles away from the city, and support the club for reasons other than citizenship of the city, can ever truly grasp the true feelings, passion and belonging one feels towards their local club.

They may think that they do, but they don't. This is not to say that they are not true fans, or that they don't love their club, but there is sense of community, comradeship and belonging involved with those who were raised in the middle of the local rivalries, and are born with it in their blood.

I think this is even more apparent in the poorer working class areas of the north, were a lot of peoples lives revolved around their local club.

{Ed007's Note - (puke)

I envy your football culture like most of the World. And despite being a fan of Manchester United since I was ten years old and Peter Schmeichel came to the club, I know that my love for the club cannot be compared to yours. In terms of being a genuine Unitedfan I am a *******.
That said I too have to argue against Liverpool and Arsenal fans every day.

Brendan

Whilst Rooney tries his hardest for the shirt I will back him. Selective memory operates with Rooney because for example both Keane and Rio agitated (to get better deals), it wasn't a new phenomena.

Let's not forget some of manchester uniteds biggest rivals are not just teams local to Manchester. I'm not from Manchester but I've supported them all my life and honestly feel my love for the club can not be topped by anyone. I get to games whenever possible and spend a considerable amount of money in doing so with having to travel. I've grown up with day to day rivalries with Leeds United fans because of the area of Yorkshire I'm from, and trust me it's not just your normal footy banter with some of them, they genuinely hate anything Manchester United with a passion. I know where worlds apart in terms of football now but the rivalry is still massive, mainly to them of course. There is of course still a large population of man utd fans in my area and also Liverpool, so to say just because someone lives outside Manchester means they haven't grown up with rivalries and stuff is completely false. Obviously there are no city fans I know of though haha but the banter with Leeds and the scouse is enough for me

What a ridiculous argument, I wasn't born in Manchester, but lived here since I was 8. So does that make me some sort of second rate supporter? Ask my wife and friends about my love for United, and they'll all tell you that I become some sort of mad man when united are playing or any conversation about united. I have got two children both of whom support united. I've got on grandchild living in London and he's only 2 years old and I have nicked the arsenal gear that his dad bought him and replaced them with united gear.
Alex Ferguson wasn't born in Manchester, but have we not all seen what United mean to him? Same goes for a lot of the ex players who have come from elsewhere, they all love and defend the club at every given opportunity.
To try and differentiate between supporters is counterproductive and actually it is sad in the extreme.

29 Sep 2014 08:43:30
And both lost my respect when they did Redman, Rio meeting Kenyon was a disgrace, we should have told him to do one in my eyes, Keane lost my respect as a man years ago too. I just don't get how anyone can say they love a club but then are happy to ignore things like that. Results are obviously more important than the history and integrity of the club, not for me.

29 Sep 2014 08:58:30
Everyone is taking what was said out of context, in ores to have a rant. Here is what I said

'It's not difficult watching Deeps, as I support everyone on the pitch 100%, doesn't mean that off it I am happy with every player though. I suppose it depends how much the club mean to you. If, you grew up just a few miles from the ground and were surrounded by it day in and day out, in school and out, and would have given your right testicle to play for them then a player doing what he has twice is unforgiveable. No matter what you think of him on the pitch. In that sense I agreed with K loot, even if he ranted a lot :-)'

Everyone, please note the full stop after the 'I suppose how much the club mean to you' but. The next sentence was nothing to do with that statement. What I was getting at was that if the club mean absolutely everything to you, then how can you accept someone doing what Rooney has done twice, and others have done, when we would all play for nothing and he is getting paid ridiculous money anyway.

The next part was just my opinion as someone who grew up just miles from the ground, immersed in it every day since a toddler, at home, at school, out of school, everywhere. It was a daily battle with City fan mates, going to watch the reserves just to see United, going to watch the reserves at Maine rd because it was still a derby in our eyes. Everything for us as was United and everything for our mates was City, and being from the same city it makes it so much bigger and intense. I hate Liverpool as much as Liverpool fans hate us, but with City it is on another level, for me anyway and that is because of my experiences since I can remember being on this earth. It is totally unforgivable for me, whether anyone agrees or is upset by that, I don't care, that is how it is.

Never did I mean any fans not from manchester support the club any less, just that their experiences are different. As mine would be if I supported the NY Yankees as I said.

28 Sep 2014 15:14:38
Don't know if this has been done?? But what are people's thoughts on the ronaldo banner?? Just a bit of fun or did it seem desperate?

{Ed007's Note - Desperate isn't the word, try mortifying. It's one step up in the cringey stakes from half & half scarves or fans wearing captains armbands - it takes cringe to an all new level. How would Utd fans feel if PSG/Man City/Chelsea fans done it with Di Maria? Think of the stick you'd give LFC fans if they done something like that with Suarez at Barca.}

28 Sep 2014 15:51:53
Pathetic in my eyes, just as pathetic as the d*cks who organised last year's banner.

We're starting to seem like a cringy ex boyfriend who just can't let it go

Is that where fresh is ?

{Ed007's Note - (rofl)

28 Sep 2014 16:30:22
Which person keeps paying for these. The last Ronaldo needs help with is his ego. And now its made us as a fanbase look desperate. As bond said if that had been the red scouse we'd rip into them every chance.

The bunch of losers did it to get publicity for themselves why else have their twitter handle on it, embarrassing and pathetic

28 Sep 2014 12:49:16
SUBJECT: January Tranfer Window '15.

Alright,
As all United fans know, a quality central defender is heavily needed in order to bolster the defence and ensure there is a stable platform for the solid midfield and stunning attack.

I was writing to simply ask any Eds or any active members on this site who they think is needed in the defence and possibly the midfield?

Possible defenders (rumoured)
- Gerard Pique
- Ron Vlarr
- Mats Hummels
- Antonio Rudiger

Possible midfielders (rumoured)
- Arturo Vidal
- Paul Pogba
- Kevin Strootman
- Sami Kedhira

Any thoughts, comments and opinions are very welcome,
Cheers.

In defence:

Pique(Not sure if he would want to leave Barca)
Hummels(likewise and he is now the captain as well)
Miranda/Vlaar/Rudiger/Van dijk/Inigo Martinez can be attainable but, might have to pay a premium

In midfield:

Vidal/Strootman(first choice, would again have to pay a premium to get either)
Pogba(not likely with the huge price tag)
Khedira(not sure if LVG would want him)
Moutinho/Hamsik/Lucas Silva maybe other alternatives.


CB will be the priority given the frequent injuries as well as a lack of quality/commanding presence at the back.

We will also need to move some players on and a lot will also depend on how much cash will be available to spend.

28 Sep 2014 11:42:27
Slightly off topic.
Well there is always this talk about how physical and fast the premier League is and that many players can't handle it. This brings up an interesting point. How much does this nature of the league affect the National team in the wc and the euros? And how much does it affect the pl clubs in the champions League?
We generally tend to think that many players from spain, Germany and italy tend to struggle here and yet the last three world cups and euros were won by these countries. Is there a relation here?
The pl clubs almost invariably change tactics for the champions League. They always go for a very defensive approach. While the clubs from the other big leagues almost still play like they would in their respective leagues. Or at least the change is much much less drastic in their cases.
Another aspect is managers like big sam. You could say that he manages team with a low budget so he plays a certain way. Well now he's managing west ham and yet its the same old. Its like Blackburn with better players. Its taken for granted that possession football doesn't do very well in the bpl. isn't that a little counterproductive as the same teams/players struggle in anything outside the country? Players like cattremole get praises for ridiculous tackles and bullying and yet technical players like ozil and kagawa and criticized for not being manly enough. What's the use cause the moment you play in any other competitions, half those tackles will get you a booking.

Totally agree mate

28 Sep 2014 14:45:42
This is the biggest problem in English/ Scottish football, too much emphasis on the physical and not enough on the technical. This is a huge problem at youth level, where there exists a win at all costs mentality so its a case of lump it up to the big man upfront. Until this changes we will continue to experience failure in international tournament's

Great post. I would always wonder the same. Every other player who moves from England to some other league comments on how tactical the game is every minute. No wonder, PL clubs get found out in the UCL.

At the age of 19 I can tell you its not getting any better, I played with so many players who were not offered scholarships or contracts at clubs despite being good enough purely based on 'not being big enough', if you're not over the height of 5'6 by 16 you've basically got no chance of making it unless you're a top top talent.

28 Sep 2014 18:44:34
You'd think with so many foreign managers and coaches over here it would start to change. This is what I want the van gaal legacy to be. A much better youth set up and a stream of players coming through. I know we haven't done too bad but we could also do better.

28 Sep 2014 19:00:12
This has been going on for decades. It's not a new problem. I played at a good level when I was younger and a saying I heard whish I despise is "get rid". Also when you have to run around the perimeter when warming up why not each person do it with a ball at their feet?

28 Sep 2014 09:31:31
I haven't had the benefit of seeing the game on TV, just live in the ground but we dug a result out in an unexpected way.
We scored two good goals and should have had more in the first half, particularly the DiMaria chance and played some really good entertaining football.

What happened at half time? It looked like we had the half time tactics talk about keeping the ball and dragging them out of shape but not the Churcillian up and at them one, because we were so much slower and more circumspect at the start of the second half. Then the fun started, it looked a handball before the Rooney sending off, similar to last week where the referee somehow missed the first offence. At the time it looked like Rooney was trying to trip the West Ham player who was in his own half. Yet I don't think it was that that made people angry at the referee, just the inconsistency because when one of their players took out Herrera it was only a booking. The ref did get one thing right and that was to book the WHU player after 3 mins for persistently fouling DiMaria in what looked like a preconceived attempt to get him.
Once Rooney went off our team spirit shone through and we battled brilliantly for the remaining 35 minutes including injury time. I have to mention the excellence of the defence, McNair on his debut actually reminded me of a young Alan Hanson especially when he carried the ball forward a couple of times. I thought Rojo had an outstanding game with Shaw and Rafael not far behind him. When our backs were to the wall I watched Blind giving everything but also organising.
I didn't herald the goalkeeper because when WH scored in the first half we didn't clear the second ball and overall I was a bit concerned about DeGea not commanding his area yesterday, it needs working on.
One thing I didn't agree with was making RVP the sole striker, I believe LvG was wrong with that, he doesn't have pace to run beyond the line nor did he hold the ball. It seems LvG has too soft a spot for RVP because Falcao would have been a far better bet to do that and in fact I was saying later in the game that LvG would have been better putting someone with pace up there as an outlet, a DiMaria as it would have given us the option to put balls over for him to run on to and hold waiting for support. It showed me that LvG has a blind spot with RVP.
Yesterday I said about the crowd getting behind the team when we need it and we did, I was hoarse after the game, a game that showed we can battle and it made me more hopeful than before it for the rest of the season. LvG trusted a young lad to make his debut in the centre of what has been a rocky defence, what a great message for the young of our club. Lastly, whilst not a great win, score wise, it was a significant one yet the concern after it is that referees are not giving us a fair playing field. It was tense but we showed the determination needed to win and that is very confidence building.

28 Sep 2014 09:52:53
Would particularly agree with your thoughts about lvg and rvp. We should be playing Falcao in the same sort of role as Van Nistlerooy. Play him right up top looking for space in the penalty area to do what he does best, score goals. Don't ask him to drop back and link up play. Rvp has been brilliant for us but should no longer be regarded as an automatic pick imo.

Totally agree watched it in the stretford end and the ground was right behind the team all game espesh those last 20 mins? But I came home ready t watch motd and see the bad referee decisions but we didn't see the countless fouls on angel, the handball before Rooneys foul and the biggest 1 Adrian handled outa the area and ref gave yellow card which should b a red and I thought was as big a call as the Rooney one but motd didn't even show it? We've had 2 bad refereeing shows last 2 wks but unlike at Leicester we kept our heads n the crowd was brilliant for wat seemed like the longest 20 mins of my life.

28 Sep 2014 10:06:45
Red man I agree with everything you said apart from your view on Falcao being substituted and RVP left on.In an ideal situation with height in defence and midfield,Falcao who was having a tremendous game dropping into midfield,holding the ball up and bringing other people into the game and also chasing down defenders would have been the player kept on. However in the situation we found ourselves in ,crosses coming into the box from set plays on a regular basis, I feel that RVPs ability to defend his own box with his extra height was the reason for his reprieve.

28 Sep 2014 10:41:43
United99,

Handball outside the area by a goalkeeper is only a red card if it stopped a clear goalscoring opportunity. If he hadnt handballed it then it would have been a corner, so a yellow is the correct decision.

I actually think the ref got most of the big decisions correct yesterday, we just seem to be on the end of 50-50 decisions going against us at the moment, but I am sure that will even out over time.

United99. Totally agree. The ref was abysmal. And the cynical trip in Shaw in first half when he was clean past the right back, didn't even get a yellow card. The lunge at Herrera by a player already booked, didn't get a second booking. The handball before the Rooney sending off didn't get a mention, the handling of the Adrian outside his area only got a yellow card.
How long is it going to be before referees actually start getting punished properly for this kind of "cheating". And I firmly believe it is cheating as the ref was there on every occasion but failed to make the right calls. Maybe a 3 match ban should help matters.
It is a shame that Phil Neville didn't have the balls to mention all these on motd.

Raffa

I appreciated the height issue and felt that may be the reason for the decision at the time but West Ham pushed up to play a higher line because of RVP lack of pace. We couldn't put a ball behind them, also RVP didn't harry as much as I would have expected of a lone forward or retain the ball.

28 Sep 2014 11:17:17
I agree on Ddg actually. Quality young keeper with lots of promise but still has lots to work on, there are certain situations where he lacks confidence or does not come across as commanding enough. hopefully when we get a settled back 4 it will help him but for now I think he is slightly overrated by our fans at times.

I didn't feel the ref got the "big" calls wrong I.e Rooney off but it's the "little" things that lead to them like the handball b4 Rooney kicked out and last week the push on rafa before the pen? I just wish the refs had consistency? On a + note how good was rafa yesterday and Rooney before his sending off he looks like he's loving playing with the new quality signings?