Manchester United Banter Archive March 31 2013

31 Mar 2013 23:33:14
Evening. How do you think we'll approach tomorrow's match? Two wingers and a two man midfield with Rooney playing just behind the striker, or would we be better off flooding the midfield with welbeck played in a wide position in front of Valencia at right back.
I think Hernandez is due a game, but I hope he is not played as lone striker, as he does not excel in that system.
Nomidfield

Why would we play Valencia at RB?

DDG
Rafa/Rio/Evans/Evra
Nani/Carrick/Jones/Giggs
Rooney/Hernandez

Switching between 4-5-1, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2

IHaveNoName!

Raphael went off early against Sunderland with a groin strain. If that is the case, then he won't be fit. Unless saf is pulling a fast one!
Nomidfield

31 Mar 2013 21:15:13
Some folk on here need to switch off Football Manager and switch themselves on to the real world!

s20c

Definitely, but they won't.
DHK

31 Mar 2013 20:03:13
Just wanted to get a few peoples' opinions as it seems a lot of posters on here are under the assumption that Lewandowski will certainly sign for United this summer. I do rate him as a striker and I think he would suit the EPL just fine, but is he really a priority? I see a lot of people saying that out of the strikers we have, they would like to see Welbeck or Hernandez go and Lewandowski come in.

Personally, I would be pretty disappointed if this happened. Welbeck is still very young, and while his finishing obviously isn't quite up to par, he does exceptionally well in other departments of the game. He works tremendously hard, and he's United through and through. He'll play any position, and he's performed well in big games. Besides, our team isn't lacking in goals, and I'm sure Welbeck's finishing will improve with time and a prolonged period playing more centrally. The quality of Hernandez' finishing is unquestionable, and the kind of movement he has around the box is fantastic. He hasn't been playing consistently or been receiving great service this season, yet he's still chipped in with a fair amount of goals.

So why purchase Lewandowski? Rooney and RVP both offer much more with their all around game in my opinion, and Dortmund would demand a pretty significant transfer fee. Some people point to Rooney shifting from a striker to a midfielder as one of the reasons for looking at a high profile striker, but I don't see it happening. Rooney is fantastic at playing in the hole, as a frontman, and on either side of a front 3, and you could say the same about RVP. Unless Rooney himself is sold in the summer, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, I don't see Lewandowski being bought.

But what do you guys think? Would you gladly get rid of Hernandez, Welbeck, or even Rooney to see Lewandowski brought in? And potentially at the expensive of bringing in one or two of the midfield players we desperately need?

I wouldn't say that he is a priority no, and I would hope that other areas are strengthened as a matter of urgency. Lewandowski is a class player though, got a niggling feeling that he will end up at Bayern though, not sure why.

___________De Gea
Rafael___Evans___Vidic___Evra
_____Strootman__Carrick
Welbeck____Rooney_____Kagawa
____________RVP

Still think that is highly likely to be the way that we line up. Would love Baines in there though. Valencia will pick up again if he gets fully fit and Young is a good squad player. Can't see us spending big on Rodriguez. Begovic & Strootman are the msot likely signings. Plenty of others are plausible though. would be delighted to see Thiago join. Would be dissapointed for Garay to repalce Ferdinand though, I think he has another good year left in him. Fabio will be like a new signing as well I think. {Ed004's Note - I'm hoping for Wanyama, Strootman, Baines and Rodriguez, though would love to make a move this summer for Gotze}

Would be happy with that but I do like the look of shaw at southampton and would love bale as well------------phil

Ed004 those 4 you named (not including Goetze) I think would be a fantastic summer for us, on top of Zaha. It's what I would do TBH seeing as Bale is a bit far fetched. The only one I'm confident will actually arrive at OT though is Strootman, the other 3 I'm not so sure unfortunately.

Think Kagawa would be better in the centre rather than the wing but expect there would be a lot of interplay between the 3 'secondary' forwards behind RVP. I can see us signing Lewandowski as long term replacement for RVP hence recreating the Lewi and Kagawa partnership. Personal view is if we sign Lewandowski this summer Rooney would be on his way out. Appreciate there's talk of Hernandez moving on which would be a real shame as he plays the Ole role so well. I believe there's potential contract talks with Rooney this summer and suspect if say PSG made a £30m+ bid and Rooney looked to play hardball again on a new deal he would definitely be on his way out.

31 Mar 2013 18:48:03
Shahram that Viktor Fischer is off to spurs in the summer and if you think Eriksen isn't that good then you really need to get a to take a good look at yourself.

Gingernuts

Not my cup of tea and if Fisher does end up at spurs I would be very disappointed, cause he is the type of player that we should be buying before his market value skyrockets.

I know Eriksen aspires to play for Barcelona or Real, but nowhere near good enough and as someone posted earlier a good fit for liverpool. He will end up going for about 12 to 15 million pounds.

Shahram

You should stop reading and believing all the hype in the papers. Did you know he failed 2 try outs at Chelsea.

For an attacking midfielder I can think of a lot of players that I would take before him. Good player but nothing to go gaga about.

Shahram

Eriksen has the potential to be world class, but he's not there yet. I don't think he knows what his best position is and he is no where near robust enough to play in CM but he is not as good as someone like Rooney or Kagawa behind the striker.

Since when was Fischer off to spurs, last I checked he was staying with Ajax, and shahram has a point, Eriksen has failed to perform at a high level at international level especially major tournaments, a very good player, don't think he's what we need.
Nat

Nat

Compared to what we have at the moment he would be an improvement but I am hoping we better come this summer.

He does not have the pace of a hazzard or ozil or gotze to cut through the midfield of an opposing team and hence not I want.

Shahram

31 Mar 2013 17:13:34
Liverpool fans on twitter are saying that they need not look for players to take over from Gerrard like Cristian Eriksen as Shelvey, Allen and Henderson will replace him. Apparently Henderson is the next big thing LOL. At least we can see our teams faults.

Fresh!

Eriksen is not that special in open play. He has a great dead ball delivery and they can have him.

Shahram

He's better than Shelvey, Henderson and Allen put together though LOL.

31 Mar 2013 16:54:44
For the people who slated our performance yesterday, you have to remember several details.
All of our attacking four had played a part in 2 international games, Valencia and kagawa especially had racked up some incredible air miles!
Also, it wasn't a strongest line up at all, young and Anderson are squad players, and I feel kagawa links up better with Rooney. People moan about only winning 1-0, but if young had supplied RVP with a better pass, it would have almost certainly been a goal right at the end.
One last thing, i've seen some posts where people say Rodriguez is over hyped, not worth the quoted price etc, I cannot understand this, Rodriguez is already a fantastic player with huge potential! We need someone of his flair!
Nat

Why was Young's pass not good?

Is he worth £40 million though? I'd argue no.

Is he better than say Hazard, Mata, Ozil, Gotze?

Again i'd say no.

We do need a winger but not at that sort of cost, higher priority is 2 central midfielders to replace Scholes, Fletcher, Anderson.

Young's pass was short and too late, RVP had to stall his run.
Rodriguez wouldn't cost 40 closer to 30, and he may be better than all of those if he came to united
Nat

We won't sign Rodriguez, I am pretty certain of that. Welbeck will become a winger next season and therefore we might be able to keep Rooney, Hernandez, RVP and Lewy as our 4 strikers.

31 Mar 2013 14:47:50
Can't believe the abuse referees put up with in football these days. Gerrard's rant at the ref after that yellow card was absolutely ridiculous. Total lack of respect for the official that will be copied up and down the country on kids pitches.

This isn't just a bitter rant at a scouse player either, our players can be just as bad-Rooney often berates officials.

Can't understand why they don't just get back to yellow/red carding players who clearly hurl abuse directly at a match official.

It seems like the refs are concerned that sending off a player for decent will be viewed as them losing control? I think players sense a weak ref and know they can shout anything at them and they won't do anything.

31 Mar 2013 16:09:00
Should be like in rugby, yellow card and you go sit in the dug out for ten minutes. See how many petty offences happen then. I think the whole system needs sorting out. I'd bring in a third card for stuff like first offences, then yellow and the sin bin for a second and leave red for only the most serious of offences. With teams getting people binned they'd start to see sense.

Dodgy, don't get me started! Pulling shirts, wrestling at corners, appealing when you know you touched it last, edging forwards at free kicks so the wall ends up about 7 yards away, screaming in the face of linesmen who flagged for a foul, and my personal favourite, excessive time wasting. It's time the authorities got a grip

Come off it! I agree that something needs to be done, but MU are one of the worst teams for surrounding the ref, berating officials etc. Even your manager can't help but try and intimidate officials! And if we're going to sin-bin players for foul language then Rooney might as well have his own seat on the touch line!

If you check my post noname I included MU in my critisism, and specifically Rooney!

I'm particularly annoyed by this growing trend of berating a ref when he's just given out a card. It seems no ref is brave enough to brandish a second yellow and send them off.

Biggest concern is the damage to the grass roots game. Rooney, Gerrard et al are heros of young kids growing up. So what are they going to do when they play and don't agree with a refs decision.

Red cards are too harsh a punishment, so refs won't give them. Agree that maybe sin binning would work, but would completely change the dynamic if the game - so can't see it happening.

Oh yeah, when did we last berate a ref like Gerrard did today?

The same respect shown in rugby union should be the norm in football and all other sports. It is only when managers stand up and demand this level of respect from the players that they pick will players behave themselves.

J Bones.

When did you last berate a ref? Champions League - Real Madrid - Ring any bells? What Rio Ferdinand did after the match was ok was it? What short memories you have!

Your manager was so eager to have a go at the officials he almost ran over his own kitman! Respect for the ref starts at the top and its clear your manager has no respect WHATSOEVER for officials. Get your own house in order before complaining about other teams.

Sorry I didn't leave my name in the last couple of posts. i'm glad that you've brought this subject up, it's good for debate and affects ALL clubs.

BELIEVER

31 Mar 2013 14:06:20
I have extensively followed Lewandowski.
Beleive me I feel benteke offers more than him in every department and has more potential than him.

DEFINITELY worth a punt from united

Happy Easter, maybe lay off the wine a bit. Benteke is good, but nowhere near as good as Lewandowski. And unlike yourself (no name) I actually have followed Lewandowski ever since his name was associated with united. A cross between Dzeko and drogba IMO. Although Benteke is still a very good player, he offers less.

Lol funny thing is, that's who benteke has been likened too aswel, I think he is a very good player in a poor villa team, whereas lewi is a very very good player in a very good team. I agree he would be worth a punt but at wot price?
Chris the REDman

You're a day early mate, April fools is tomorrow.

31 Mar 2013 17:27:13
Well my friend, I don't mean to be condescending but that's like saying Caulker is a better defender than Vidic. Lewandowski is a couple of classes above Benteke.

Mick

He is

31 Mar 2013 12:04:08
The one thing that annoys me about this site is the people who come on after every game and just moan. Yes its your perogative. But its every game. During the game and half time are the worst as you just make yourselves look silly. We're winning games, haven't conceded in six, top, fifteen points clear, won at liverpool, city and chelsea. Ok playing style hasn't been brilliant but i'll take points and prizes over pretty and winning nothing like arsenal. And the constant picking and kicking of players. Its not needed. Yes there are players we've signed and i've raised my eyebrows. Yes there are players I think we should sell. But whilst their on the pitch in a red shirt i'll back them until their time at United is ended. Look at the abuse Carrick got over the last four years on here, strangely gone quiet this season when he's been our best player. Evans got it loads the last couple seasons as well but gone quiet now he's had a season where he's reaching his potential and has been our second most consistent player. Rafael also has had abuse look at him this season. Fletcher probably got the most abuse of anyone but now your all moaning about the need for a Fletcher type player. De Gea got abuse, we all know the faults with his game, it looks like he's working on them, hasn't conceded in six. Now its Cleverley and Welbeck. Its pretty much almost guaranteed you'll be having a large helping of humble pie if they progress like the others. I'd start trusting in Ferguson's judgement he hasn't messed up too many times and seeing these players everyday i'd say he knows more than anyone on this site. My point is how about backing the players. I'd say that it was all the spoilt younger generation playstation fans who have only known success and don't know any different and didn't see the rubbish we had in the eighties. But its not though is it and some of you saw, like me, players like Brazil, Birtles, Davenport and so on wearing red and playing poor. that's what I don't get. You've seen much worse players at United and still have to attack players who if they had been at United back then would have been quality. All this talk about people not being United standard. Garbage what the chuff is United standard because from 1973 to 1993 there was a lot of players who were nowhere near this mythical ideal either. No I don't want to go back to those days, but the club is bigger now and the majority of the players attacked over this mythic standard didn't turn out too bad go the end. By all means have an opinion but let's have less of these pointless attacks on players and remember we are United! Not some small and bitter club. MrE

Best post I've seen on here in ages, mate, if not in the whole time I've been using this site.

You are very welcome to join me and AJH in a little, old man's menage á trois :)

MrE, I salute you

Post of the day.

I've seen united in 60s 70"s 80s 90s and the last 13 years. Being positive is the best thing you can do. And we all want to see our team win, and win they will.
However, we also want to see us competing with the best in Europe and is that asking too much. Have u really been blown away by Valencia nani Anderson cleverley young this season?
Most of us who tell the truth haven't been impressed by the above, but the rest of the team have been superb. I've never slagged carrick, Evans or Raphael, but some of the players we have are simply not good enough.
If we can't say so, then how will we improve?

*prerogative

No name, nothing anyone says on here will change the manager's thoughts or opinions on a player. People are entitled to their opinions on players, performances, tactics etc, but those opinions will not alter the manager's thoughts even remotely. Evra has been lacking defensively for three years, but he's still our first choice LB. People will disagree with the manager's opinions or choices as that is inevitable, but what happens will always be his decision as long as he is in charge, nothing anyone says on here will change that.

31 Mar 2013 13:19:32
Cheers lads i've been simmering for awhile and finally cracked after yesterdays game. Its not been vintage we can agree on that, but having watched United for three decades and seen a lot of players and teams I can see the direction we're going in and what we're trying to achieve and my instincts tell me we're on the verge of something special. This season is the midpoint of the transition. Next season will see us heading into the last part. Two seasons time we'll see the end results. MrE

31 Mar 2013 13:46:24
No name as I said there are certain players who I think we shouldn't have signed, or that I would like to see sold, maybe because their in decline, or as stated aren't upto it. However moaning about them three months before the transfer window doesn't achieve anything. The manager will know what needs to be done and has always worked on an evolution not revolution basis. We don't have the resources of City or Chelsea to throw half the team out and replace them. The manager works within his means. This summer will see a mini clear out of those not deemed good enough and a strengthening of the midfield. Patience is required. We're still winning unlike many of our rivals. MrE

Top post MrE, fully agree.

Great post mrE. Love the alias too!

Mr E

I did not watch the club in the 60's, 70's but have been watching them in the 80's 90's and 20's. I am not sure what you are trying to say that just because 40 to 50 years ago we had some poor players that it ok to have players who are not good enough for today's team.

I mean are you kidding me, football today is very different and United is different beast to the club you watched 40 to 50 years ago.

FYI some the players that you mentioned I have always rated and you will not find posts from me criticizing them, however since my post was about Hernandez and Lewandowski, I would get rid of welbeck for lewandowski in a minute.

Shahram

31 Mar 2013 16:35:01
No shahram i'm just saying players should be supported rather than constantly attacked for faults. They've managed to do something we'd all kill to do. I know you've supported players like Carrick previously. that's my point he's a player that's had pelters over his United career but he's been our best most consistent player this season. All of the players I listed have come in for criticism and all have taken strides towards improvement. I expect the same from Cleverley and Welbeck in the coming years and feel there is nothing to be gained from attacking young players who can and will improve. I never said anything about having poor players decades ago means we should accept poor players now. I think if people think the likes of Young and co are poor then they should get a time machine and see some of the crap we saw under big ron. In football your never going to have the perfect side there'll always be weak points in every team. Its in identifying and improving the weak points that we will get better. I'm just saying fans now are spoilt with success and keep picking on players without giving them a chance whereas we had no success and had to endure players far worse than what we have now. If the internet had existed like it does today then players and fans would have been having breakdowns. MrE

Mr E fair enough and point taken.

I was not slating Welbeck but also think people here make certain players a lot better than what they are.

I honestly think he was better a year ago and hope he is not another one that year over year we wait on the promise that he will come good.

Funny thing is I have liked carrick from the day we bought him and always thought he was better being the playmaker but not great playing as second midfielder to scholes.

Shahram

Seems funny how u are jumping on the backs of people just because they wernt alive or old enough to remember utd in the 70-80s, I think my standards are the same as anyones on here, but just because u are old enough to remember watching utd in the dark days your standards are some what lower? I dnt get what u are trying to say? i'm sure u want to see the best players playing for our great club yes? I can totally except we are in a transition and atm we are not blessed with players like previous teams we have had, saying that, is it wrong to expect a better performance for from top class international players i. e Young? Valencia?
I take on board your point on humble pie normally being eaten when a quick judgement is made without patience i. e fletcher but at the same time we have seen wot Valencia can do, we are getting what we thought we would from Young when he was signed (inconsitency) but just because we have had worse that does not mean we should just settle for what we have. The reason utd are wot we are and won as much as we have is because we don't stand still, we move out the duds and replace them either with the youth system or signings. i'm more than prepered to give certain players time like clevs and DDG but there are players at our club that wouldn't be there if we had even a sprinkle of players from 20 years ago.
Yes winning is the best feeling in the world and one as a utd fan we have come to expect on a regular basis but to my mind we have not always played so slow and tbh mediocre football at times, if it wasn't for our top players we wouldn't be 15 points clear, take RVP, vidic and Rio for example these are real top draw players, Then add a Michael Carrick playing his best ever football and we have 4 of the best players in the prem in there positions but what about the rest? most of them wouldn't be starting in most other teams in the top four, yes we have young players that will take time to devlope and i'm more than willing to give them time to turn into the finished artical but what about the supposed finished players that should be top of there game, young? rooney? evra? valencia? anderson? nani? they are not, not utd standard they are just not top standard! tell me in 3 years where will oscar be? hazard? bale? mata? aguero? wilshire? etc, ill tell u, prob hitting a higher standard of performance than our so called top players i. e Young, Valencia etc, that's what worries me the most, not the now, but the future and that what is what we have done so well in the past, but while we have people just excepting it, is when we turn into liverpool or arsenal, because I tell football is not slow moving it will bite u quicker than u think just look at arsenal and chelsea and further back liverpool. Will I support the team no matter what? of course I will there is no question about that, will my love for united dampen if we fade? never! But it doesn't have to happen and if fergie makes this up comming window a priority window it wont. but while it seems the manager can only do patch up jobs in the market we will!

Good post MrE.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's football! I have my moments being a United fan but ultimately whoever crosses the line gets my full support. Constantly slating players before during and after every game is hard to comprehend sometimes. Young players are exactly that, young, inexperienced but in the case of Cleverly and Wellbeck, they're full of enthusiasm, they love the club and they will give their all. Cleverly for me is neat and tidy, he's busy and he has this terrible habit of passing to his teamates. Talk about Pogba all you like, he may well turn into a world class player but how can he be judged as the messiah after one decent season in a poor league. He was offered a good contract and simply had to bide his time because Sir Alex has proved for many years if you're good enough you're old enough. Cleverly, Wellbeck and Evans are reaping the rewards of being patient and learning their trade. De Gea is repaying the faith shown in him and will be a better player for his early season experience.

Carrick is an exceptionally good player, despite the constant moaning of some, he doesn't just pass the ball to the side or backwards. He does on occasion but that's what I would call retaining possession! He tidies up in front of the back four, he doesn't shy away when he makes a mistake and he's the complete professional, no histrionics, no demands and I would imagine a joy to play with.

I've no doubt Kagawa will be the next victim of the snipers. He's not scoring left right and centre so he's a waste of money etc etc. Again for me he has improved as the season has gone on, he's been sacrificed at times when others could have been taken off. He played well on Saturday and personally I think he links up very well with RVP. Next season I'm sure he will kick on and become a constant in the side.

Ultimately football divides opinion, players, managers, chairmen, they all divide opinion. Everyone is entitled to theirs. Perhaps this generation of United fans are used to constant success and expect United to spend tens of millions on big names because city and Chelsea etc do. For me the outstanding image of the season is the obvious spirit in the United dressing room, they play as a team, for each other and for me that's what Manchester United is all about.

Big G

Chris, I'd be very surprised if any of those players you've mentioned like Oscar, Wilshere etc, will ever win as many trophies as Evra, Rooney, Valencia, Anderson etc.

And that's down to SAF and his so-called 'patch-up jobs'.

31 Mar 2013 11:09:54
Does anybody know if we are signing a top midfielder in the summer ie Strootman? I'm worried that we are not being linked to anybody in midfield!

31 Mar 2013 11:58:15
I wouldn't worry about it, the press at this stage of the season are looking for stories rather than truth. Its a better story to link us to players in positions that would have a casualty. Such as signing a striker like Lewandowski must mean that Hernandez or Rooney will be sold, or signing a centre back must mean Rio or Vidic are leaving. By linking us to these players they are creating a story that isn't there and they can sell more papers with headlines like "Rooney leaving?" than they can by linking us with a much needed midfielder which would have no casualties meaning they can't make a follow up story for it. The press is 95% rubbish. Use your own judgement and comkon sense and you'll be closer to the truth than any of these rags.

31 Mar 2013 07:01:18
Well if you believe what Fergie says, he says he will not even entertain offers for Hernandez and I am so glad.

If true, how does Lewandowski fit into the current squad. I do hope we buy him and prefer him over Welbeck any day.

I honestly can't figure out what is it that Welbeck is good?

He is so un-coordinated, clumsy and poor with zero composure around the box.

If it is for his defensive work in the middle of the pitch, I would rather see a proper box to box Midfielder.

Shahram

You should watch what he does for the team, RVP has scored 1 in 10 if you give him yesterday's but does anyone question his contribution to the team? No because he links play well, holds the ball up bringing others into play.

Welbeck has contributed a lot this season to the team and the wins, he can turn defence into attack when he runs the ball out from the back, his link up play is actually decent in attacking areas, quick 1/2 touch play.

I maintain that strikers improve with age because of maturity and composure and Welbeck will but he also contributes in other areas and should be more appreciated.

What nonsense Wellbeck is a key player in both our squad and England's, if that's our highly you rate him then I wonder about your understanding of what makes a Utd player.
Lewandowski if signed is a completely different player and if he does sign don't be thinking Wellbeck will be going anywhere, I suggest you read Gary Neville's article in today's Daily Mail.

Shahram, I'm glad Hernandez is staying. However, we need to play him more and we need to be able to change our style a bit when he's on the pitch. The only way we can do that is thru having a good midfield and decent winger/s.
Hopefully saf will sort both these areas in the summer.
Nomidfield

Rvp carried the team in first half of the season and scored 19 goals in the process. How many has welbeck scored?
He has no clue what to do in the box as he never looks up.
It might be that he will be better suited to be a midfielder due to his hard work. There again, u need someone who can pass, and he can't do that either.

31 Mar 2013 11:51:51
Well no name I think the reason you don't rate Welbeck is because you don't watch him play. His passing is one of his best assets, he has one of the highest pass completion rates of any striker in world football. Last season he finished with a pass completion rate of 89%, the majority of prem midfielders didn't have a pass rate that high.
Then your other "observation" is he doesn't score because he doesn't look up in the box. Well this shows your total lack of football knowledge. The best strikers never look up as they know where the goal is and aren't thinking about passing it but shoot on sight. Welbeck's problem is that he ALWAYS plays with his head up so when he gets in the box he looks to see if their is someone to pass to, then if not then he looks to shoot. Unfortunately normally by this time he has been closed down and the oppertunity has gone. If he played with his head DOWN more he would score more goals. that's why I feel his best postion is either as in inside forward or as a second striker where his vision and passing are more important than shooting and movement. People on slate him as they have labeled him a striker which he isn't, and people only judge strikers on their goals.

No name, England are rubbish and him being part of that team means nothing. Barry, Milner and a host of other players are also part of england, which I frankly don't give sh. t about or rate.

Please enlighten me what makes a united player because if that is what makes a united striker god helps us and thank god the other forwards are not following his cue or we would have about 10 goals between the lot and 10 assists.

You are truely clueless if you think he is integral to our makeup, he is being used as a makeshift defensive midfielder on the left wing because we are short of personnel. Leave a name next time.

Ports

I watch every game and RVP scoring 1 in 10 has nothing to do with Welbeck. RVP's control and passing is class and he is most times in the middle and crowded by a lot of defenders. Welbeck sitting on the wing the least you expect is to be able to hold the ball up. The only argument that might be a saving grace is that it is an age thing and he will improve a lot, but at the moment for me he is clueless and a headless chicken and one goal and good marking job on Alonso in the RM game does not change that.

Here is a question for you, if he was not from our youth setup and was playing for another pl team, would you be happy if we went out and bought him.

Shahram

Sharam

The point about RVP is that even though he has only scored 1 in 10, no one is questioning him because of what he offers elsewhere. Welbeck offers a lot and is a great outlet for us when we win possession because of his work rate and his defensive duties is a bonus. If you think all he did against Real Madrid was a defensive job on Alonso then this is a pointless debate as you clearly only see what you want rather than looking at the bigger picture.

Technically Welbeck is decent, as for the rubbish question that people always come out with that if he played for another team would we want him, well he went on loan to Sunderland and done a decent job, enough for SAF to bring him back and make him a regular in the match day squad. If he was at another club he'd probably be playing up top game in, game out and would be scoring more often but he is not a "goal scoring" striker like RVP or RVN or Shearer, so don't compare him to them. He is an unorthodox striker who offers the team something different or are both SAF and Hodgson clueless?

31 Mar 2013 14:18:51
Shappy, Ports good posts. This is exactly what I mean. People just having a go without appreciating what players do. MrE

Ports who said saf is clueless. He is a youth player that has cost us nothing and useful to do a defensive job and rotate in squad.

Hodgson is clueless and sorry to say next year will be another year of bs hype by the media before the wc however England will be send packing early.

You call him an unorthodox striker who offers the team something different, lol I agree because he definitely does not offer any goals or assists. Whilst the argument goes that he is young so is benteke, lucaku and they are miles ahead of him in terms of touch, control passing, shooting and ability to finish.

If we had a decent left-winger I can't see how he gets into the side and where he plays. I hope he does come on as you say but at the moment he is poor and just a body to throw out there in the last 10 minutes to defend.

Shahram

Ports and shahram what planet are you from the players you say are better than our Danny are regular starters in their respective teams yet if all these players including Wellbeck became available I know who would have the top clubs chasing them and in which order.
Sir Alex is the most ruthless manager going and if a player isn't up to our standard they are soon moved on now get back on your fantasy football sites and give us another dozen players ahead of Wellbeck and Cleverley

There are too many reasons not to get rid of Welbeck at this stage, regardless of his scoring IMO. He does need to improve his composure, first touch and finishing but I still admire his pace, linkup play and work ethic. I think he gives us a good squad option.

For a start he's still young and has plenty of time to improve. He's on low wages, has the club at heart and is willing to play in any position or even to sit on the bench.

We could get Lewandowski instead but would he be willing to sit on the bench? Could he give us the same option at LW? I'd say no to both and he'd also be on much higher wages than Welbeck. No doubt Lew is a better striker but then RVP is better again in this position whereas Welbeck offer a 'different' option.

Sharham - you mention Benteke & Lukaku but we'd have to pay over £20m for each of these guys. The fact is that we already have Welbeck as he came through the academy, he's on low wages and we don't have to pay a transfer fee for him. He's versatile and offers decent options as a 3rd/4th choice striker or 2nd/3rd choice wide forward. And then there is always the chance that he'll develop into a top player over time.

No Name how old are you 10?

What utter rubbish. Really, Anderson, young and few others are also in our squad and you still think any of the top teams would be chasing them if they became available? We have had a for sale sign on some of these guys for 2 years and nobody wants them for what we think they are worth.

I am sure they can play for a mid table/lower table team but no chance any of the top 10 clubs would be in for them and the same goes for Welbeck.

We can't even get a top team to bid on some of our players and when they do go we end up selling them at bargain basement prices just to get them of the payroll, because thy are overhyped and overestimated by the average united fan.

If you believe that players like Welbeck, Cleverly are good enough to play for teams like Bayern, Chelsea, Juve, PSG, Barca, RM, City, BR, which I consider as our peers, you are deluded and need a head check.

Shahram

HD

I agree with the low wages and the fact that he has cost us nothing in transfer cost. I brought up lukaku and benteke not because I think we should go out ad buy them, although Luakku will be some player in a few years.

Everyone keeps saying how young Welbeck is. Well he has been around and played a lot more pl games than those 2 and they seem to be head and shoulders above him. I think he has actually gotten worst compared to last year and I see very little progress and we might have another Anderson on our hands.

I would still take Lewandowski over him and pay the 20 million pounds for lew and yes he can play out wide if needed as he has all the necessary tools. I guess my beef with Welbeck is if you are a striker by the nature of the job you either score or set up a lot of goals and he does neither, and he is so basic in many of the things he does that a lot of other player can do the same. I also honestly think once we sort our left side with a proper left winger, he will struggle to get into the side.

Maybe he will read this and score a couple against Chelsea tomm as I expect him to start and everyone can jump on my sh. t lol :)

Shahram

Shahram I'm sorry mate but if you consider PSG, City, Chealsea & Juventus to be our peers then you clearly are a deluded fantasy football manager we are fortunate to support the greatest run club along with Bayern & Barca we all have a policy to give our own youngsters an opportunity and be patient (something you don't seem to share)we are not run by a ego no idea fantasy football billionaire trying to please people like yourself in supplying you with the so called Marque signings you dream of.
Our consistency over the last 10/15 seasons surely as to be admired if you can't see that we are in the process of putting together the best squad ever at Old Trafford then I give up

You seem to confuse ownership with clubs who are going to be vying for top european honors over the next 5 to 10 years.

You also seem to base your views on some ill founded romance of home grown players should be given judged differently. I personally don't care where they come from and if from our youth system then great but if they are not good enough then off they go.

You also seem to forget that our greatest years in winning trophies have also coincided with going out and buying some of the best players out there.

Shahram

Please explain our peers criteria

We cannot and don't carry any passengers when it comes to our own kids, I am not suggesting that for one minute.
Please understand our consistency over the years is down to balancing homegrown which gives us our heart and soul and our major signings like Van persie/nistletoy etc giving us the cream.
The clubs you believe to be challenging for European honours in the next 5/10 years won't live with us Bayern and Barca trust me.
My only concern is when Sir Alex retires.

I agree with noname that the balance of homegrown & bought players, as well as a consistency of staff and environment has been the cornerstone of our success over the years. I think it's important that we always have a nucleus of british players and if they're homegrown all the better - because they have the club in their blood so to speak.

I'd say both Welbeck & Cleverly deserve to remain part of our squad for the next few years, for this reason and because they are good squad options. The fact that we don't have to pay a transfer fee and that they're both on relatively low wages is a big bonus (as I've said) when putting together such a large squad.

Sharham, I understand what you're saying and yes those other players are better right now but I think there's too much value in keeping hold of our homegrown players until they've been given a good opportunity to mature, for the reasons I've stated above.

We will be in a dog fight with the likes of chelsea and city just for the pl next year and Arsenal can be incredibly good if Wenger loosens up the purse.

Where we have excelled this year is by grinding out results against lesser teams but not great to watch. However you can only race that horse so many times before it breaks down. The clubs I have listed are all going to be there and I would argue clubs like Chelsea's with their youth and players on loan are stronger than us and going to be challenging for major honors for many years. If I am not mistaken they have won nearly the same amount of silverware when compared to us over the last 10 years.

PSG and City due to their backing will only get better, Juve is not too far off and RM is not going away. AC Milan is also not going away and some will argue they have just as rich a tradition as we do.

Last with the exception of the class of 92, which homegrown players are you referring to as the current squad and all key players have been purchased in the transfer market.

Shahram

That is a good point shahram! The answer is probably no! But as u say, he's young, so there is hope! I actually think he's done well in the middle when he's been given a task.
During the first half of England's game v Montenegro, he had lots of opportunities to pass to oncoming attackers and not once did he pick them out.
However, I think the most worrying aspect is his lack of finishing. Let's hope he can work on that.
Nomidfield

HD

No argument with having squad players and if they come through our system even better as you said it cost us very little.

This whole thing started with me saying that I would take Lew over Welbeck if you believe lew is coming and The manager saying hernandez is not for sale. Even as squad player how is he going to get games if lew came on board and how does he develope sitting on the bench.

People seem to react overly anytime someone mentions a player upgrade as everyone has their favorites.

Shahram

I respect your opinion Sharham. Just to clarify, Welbeck is far from a favourite of mine I just appreciate his contribution. If it were a straight swap with no other consoderations I'd take Lew all day long. But when you consider things like wages and willingness to sit on the bench I think it's a harder decision to make. I could only imagine Hernandez leaving to make way for Lew personally which makes SAF's comments all the more baffling to me, if true that is!

31 Mar 2013 00:45:51
Say all you want about our midfield but I honestly think Carrick has been our best player this year and for me the best midfielder in the league. He was excellent today left and right foot, played some beautiful passes and when motd showed his passes again it actually shows you how talented he is. Just imagine if we had someone like Gotze in beside him or wilshere we would be destroying teams. But we can't just depend on him, he needs someone world class beside him.

Caol�n.

I concur :)

I agree that Carrick has been our best player in terms of consistency all season. When this was mentioned a month or 2 back some people laughed it off and said RVP was clearly the most important player of the season. But, when RVP has been missing Hernandez and Rooney have stepped up with the goals whereas Carrick has provided a stellar service from our midfield that nobody else has managed to provide. In short, we would have been screwed without him.

So Carrick has been our best and most important player over the course of the season so far IMO.

I also agree we need to parnter him up with a quality player. However, Goetze is more of an attacking mid and Wilshere is unavailable for now. I think we should go for more of an all rounder like Strootman. Ideally we'd get Wanyama too then we'd have a bit of everything amongst our midfield options.

I Agree, game in game out he has been the best performer for the team. Has my vote.

Shahram

Totally agree, carrick has been the best midfielder in the league. name that is all we're wanting, just another couple to play alongside him and we'll be sorted.
Nimidfield