Manchester United Rumours Archive October 15 2010

15 Oct 2010 23:21:56
Manchester United Rumours
In reply to:
"Manchester United Rumours
Sorry, I know I just posted, but I just got an email from one of my sources.

I'm only posting this because of the number of rumours on this site concerning this player. I don't want any angry replies.

Apparently Steven Defour is on his way to Liverpool - wait, I know what you're thinking "that b* * * , he's practically already a Utd player", but the new owners of Liverpool John Henry/NESV are keen to make an impression on the Kop and will buy 3-4 first team players in Jan that are on Roy Hodgson's wishlist.
Now, it's no secret Hodgson is an admirer of Defour and he's willing to pay a fee of 10-12m.

I've been told that if Hodgson is sacked (which looks inevitable) the deal won't go through"

There is absolutely no way Defour will choose Liverpool. SAF has been tracking him for 2-3 years and the letter sent to him clearly shows he really wants him. Forget NESV, even if Bill Gates was the owner Liverpool wouldn't have a prayer of signing him. The ONLY way he will go to Liverpool is in the highly unlikely scenario that SAF chooses not to make a bid at all. New owners or not, the decision about Defour's new club rests in the hands of SAF. Period.

15 Oct 2010 21:55:43
Manchester United Rumours
{ed's note - I don't think I am, I have been obsessed with football since I was tiny and have been involved with it as much as I have been able to all my life. What I see when I look at United is a team in transition, a team that has lost its heart and it needs to be replaced. Scholes is playing because you have no one capable of playing his role, Anderson has been tried and failed miserably. Fergie of old would have rushed out and bought someone, Fergie of now just keeps playing him and hoping one of the kids will turn out to be the answer.}

If Anderson has failed miserably then its down to injury not ability! He can play Scholesy's role, he has immense potential and will show it tomorrow i am sure, in fact ed not even Scholesy plays the role he used to play, he plays a more defensive role in the pocket in front of the defense, he has been playing this role for two years now when he used to be our attacking midfielder. {ed's note - yes and you look all the poorer for it, you need someone to provide the killer passes he used to provide. But not from deep, from the opposition half, the ones that really hurt the opponent. Anderson has the ability to do it, but not the mentality, the application or the fitness.}

15 Oct 2010 21:37:58
Manchester United Rumours
{ed's note - Scholes is playing well? For the first half maybe, but you can see him visibly tiring in matches when you watch them. All of those players were bit part players when they left the club, they had all been relegated to the subs bench, in the main, not first choices like the Scholes et al are now. You may be too blinkered to see that your players are not being replaced with players of the same quality as in the past, but I am sure it is obvious to most of the fans. Rio barely plays a game these days due to injuries, Fletcher is just not in the same class as the likes of Keane, Ince and Scholes, he hasn't got their quality, though he does make up for it a little by running around a lot. Rooney is struggling with the weight of expectation heaped on his shoulders and he is not exactly an old head on young shoulders anyway, that is why he has to be left out when you face Everton. So that leaves Vidic and Berbatov, who has now played well a couple of times at least. Hardly a strong spine you have is it? You raised £80m selling Ronaldo, it was clear that money was desperately needed to invest in the squad but it is still in hiding. Fergie can't even sell to buy anymore, he sells and the money vanishes, you are going to struggle until that changes. Even Fergie can only do so much to keep you are the top, how much longer do you think he can go on?}

Come on Ed, how can you tell me that Bruce, Pallister, Schmeichel etc were experienced players? Of course they were domestically but in Europe they had little experience, which is why they always failed. Players like Rio, Vidic, Fletcher, Rooney & Berbatov have way more European experience than those lads. I am far from blinkered, the main reason Fergie has kept Scholes and that on for a final year is to help the younger players with their experience, Fergie never expected Scholes to play most games, he has been playing him because he has been playing very good.

Like i said this January & Summer is very important, if United fail to buy any decent players or keep Scholes & Giggs on for longer then i will start to panic, the reason i am not panicking now is because we have two more windows left to replace our legends, if we fail to then i will worry.

But let me ask you this question ed, does any of the Arsenal team have experienced league winners? Does City? Does Spurs? No they have squads full of players that have never won the Premier League or European cup, bar Yaya, Balotelli & Tevez, although the latter two spent 90% on the bench.

You ask if i think United will do okay this season, well yes is my answer, we will finish first or second, its just our defense that has let us down this season and with Rio back we have been solid, in fact i do not think Rio has conceded in any game that hes played in this season.

Valencia 0.1 United
Sunderland 0.0 United
England 0.0 Montenegro

You may think i am blinkered but i seriously think we will be okay, our team is stronger than last season and we finished ONE POINT behind a very strong Chelsea and we went out on away goals to Bayern Munchen which we were comfortably winning before Rooney went of and Rafael got sent off. We would have had to beat Lyon in the next round to get to the final. Oh and we won the Carling cup.

We have the same squad this time round ed with Anderson & Owen both fit and we have Smalling & Hernandez. I think you are overreacting. Could you be overreacting ed? {ed's note - I don't think I am, I have been obsessed with football since I was tiny and have been involved with it as much as I have been able to all my life. What I see when I look at United is a team in transition, a team that has lost its heart and it needs to be replaced. Scholes is playing because you have no one capable of playing his role, Anderson has been tried and failed miserably. Fergie of old would have rushed out and bought someone, Fergie of now just keeps playing him and hoping one of the kids will turn out to be the answer.}

15 Oct 2010 20:54:34
Manchester United Rumours
Sorry, I know I just posted, but I just got an email from one of my sources.

I'm only posting this because of the number of rumours on this site concerning this player. I don't want any angry replies.

Apparently Steven Defour is on his way to Liverpool - wait, I know what you're thinking "that b* * * , he's practically already a Utd player", but the new owners of Liverpool John Henry/NESV are keen to make an impression on the Kop and will buy 3-4 first team players in Jan that are on Roy Hodgson's wishlist.
Now, it's no secret Hodgson is an admirer of Defour and he's willing to pay a fee of 10-12m.

I've been told that if Hodgson is sacked (which looks inevitable) the deal won't go through.

15 Oct 2010 20:10:00
Manchester United Rumours
"~Agreed, but the problem for United is things would have to get a lot worse before they would accept a bid from a buyer. A lot worse. The problem for United is even if the Glazers do accept a Billion pound offer, the new owners would still be lumbered with the bonds. So United would still be paying 40m a year in annual interest payments. A buyer would effectively need to invest 1.5bn in United, the problem is the Glazers want 1.4bn for United which means an investor would have to invest 1.9bn.

Unless things get real bad the Glazers are never going to accept 900m - 1 Billion. And then whats the chances United will be bought without a leveraged debt? UNLIKELY.

What do you think Ed? {ed's note - I agree, unless their other businesses continue to collapse and leave them with no option but to sell United to raise funds.}"

That is rubbish. Utd's debt currently stands at around the 500-520m mark. The bond was taken out to repay the 500m odd taken out against the club, maturing in 2017. The remaining 220m in PIKs is the Glazers' personal debt, not United's. Granted they do use money from the club to pay it off but it is not Utd's debt, never will be.

The 1.5b price quoted would include the 500m on the bond. A potential buyer would now only have to pay around 400m-800m to buy the club, in addition to taking on the bond debt. This max figure alone would give the Glazers a profit of around 500m+ as they only put in 200m of their own (personal debt). The total price would be nowhere near the 1.9b mark as that wold give the Glazers a profit of around 1b! Even they are not stupid enough to actually expect that.

Their refusal to sell is not because no buyer can match their asking price, it is because they just don't need to.

15 Oct 2010 19:46:05
Manchester United Rumours
Ins next summer:
defour-10m
gourcuff-18m
ninis-5m
neuer-12m
lindergaard-5m
benzema-16m
total:66m
outs:
kuszak-7m
brown-4m
berbatov-16m
anderson-10m
carrick-8m
chester-1.5
drinkwater-1.5
total:48m

Why would United get rid of Berbatov, Brown & Anderson?

Who could you buy for 16m who's better than Berbatov?

How could you replace Brown with just 4m? Is there any other RB/CB better than Brown that you can buy for 4m? Reece Brown will replace Wes when Reece is ready.

And how many Anderson type players can you buy for around 10m? A decent all rounder central midfielder who is just 22 years old.

These guys will stay put and rightly so, Casualties will be Carrick, Park & Possibly Gibbo.

I would not expect more than four Jan/Summer signings, Defour & Lindegaard will be two of them.

15 Oct 2010 18:47:34
Manchester United Rumours
Ed another good thing about this takeover is people will start hating Liverpool again instead of pitying them, is there anything worse then footy fans pitying you? {ed's note - what will you do if they turn their pity towards United fans? You are right though, there is nothing worse when they stop seeing you as rivals and just feel sorry for you.}

15 Oct 2010 18:20:08
Manchester United Rumours
Y do people keep going onto the man u rumour page and posting things about liverpool isn't that wat the liverpool page is for?? ywna or ynwa pops to mind

15 Oct 2010 17:27:31
Manchester United Rumours
I remember when this sight used to be about Manchester United rather than debating the amount of money that Liverpool have or will have in the future. Who cares, seriously?

15 Oct 2010 16:52:03
Manchester United Rumours
So by saying the acquisition debt is now gone still doesn't tell us if they paid it with borrowed money or not does it? Ed what happened to the other debt as it was 357m in total? Or was that what the Bellends owed? {ed's note - that was owed to the clowns, that will be wiped out mate. As for if they borrowed the money or not, no one knows for sure just yet how they raised the funds.}

Ha ha ideal, i take it that bit of debt was the 140m they were talking about losing?

357m - 237m = 120m? Don't they mean 120m ed?

A good victory for football. {ed's note - there will be costs involved in paying off the debts, a bit like the one off costs United incurred with the bond issue, I think that is why there is extra losses. Now if only the Glazers could suffer a similar hit football would be all the better!}

15 Oct 2010 16:36:20
Manchester United Rumours
Ed when asked how they paid for Liverpool, Henry replied; "with pounds" is that a snub?

They also said that debts that have plagued Liverpool with annual interests of 20-30m will now be costing Liverpool just 2-3m, wasn't Liverpool paying over 40m altogether? So does that mean there is still some debt which will cost 10-20m in interest?

If Liverpool are completely debt free then they will be in good shape, but will Liverpool be debt free? {ed's note - that wasn't a snub, he was meaning they were using their own money not making the club pay for it. I think he means that the only debts will be the standard business operating debts, overdrafts etc, rather than the huge debt the former (oh how good it feels to type that!) owners had placed on the club. I doubt the club will be paying the amounts you are referring to.}

15 Oct 2010 16:13:25
Manchester United Rumours
What do you think Ed? {ed's note - I agree, unless their other businesses continue to collapse and leave them with no option but to sell United to raise funds.}

But ed is it possible for the Glazers to claim bankruptcy with their malls but keep hold of Tampa and United? Didn't hicks do that with his NFL team? {ed's note - it is very possible, unless they have any kind of personal liabilities to cover. That is the problem with the way business is conducted - the rich can do what they want, take all the money and run none of the risks.}

15 Oct 2010 15:57:43
Manchester United Rumours
What do you think NESV will do Ed? {ed's note - it is me who is the original ed mate. NESV will borrow a percentage of the money, there is no doubt that they will have to do so, but they had to agree not to have it all secured against the club. They have stated themselves that the only debt will be operating costs, ie the club operating with an overdraft, but that the stadium costs will be similar to Arsenal. So yes, it will be very similar to Arsenal, but we have a much lower wage bill, much lower overheads and so should be able to cope with the costs slightly better than they have been able to. In other words we should still have money to invest on players, without any investment from the owners, unlike Arsenal who are having to sell to buy.}

~I do not think Liverpool have to do a great deal to their team, i would buy a striker, Left winger & a right winger. I would go for Afellay, Ninis & Pava.They would cost less than 20m and will give the club exactly what you need.

_ _ _ _ _ _Reina
Johnson_Carra_Agger_Konchesky

_Ninis_Mereiles_Gerrard_Afellay

_ _ _ _ Torres_Pava

Would you entertain that team ed? Although i must add i would prefer Afellay at United. {ed's note - it does look a step forward, though I would prefer to spend it all on Honda myself. He is not just an outstanding player but a marketing man's dream as well. He would provide the funds for another player on his own.}

15 Oct 2010 15:27:33
Manchester United Rumours
{Editor's Note: The reason is the experience NESV have in the field. They have had success running sports-based business. Lim is an experienced in making investments. The choise was based on what was best for the club.}

~I have noticed you are a different Ed, the original one if i am not mistaken? My first argument with the first ed was i think NESV will borrow money to buy Liverpool, either a percentage of the 300m or all of the 300m, but i did say that it would not be secured against Liverpool, it will be secured against the Parent company 'NESV' I also said that the yield will be very low, similar to Arsenal's.

What do you think NESV will do Ed? {ed's note - it is me who is the original ed mate. NESV will borrow a percentage of the money, there is no doubt that they will have to do so, but they had to agree not to have it all secured against the club. They have stated themselves that the only debt will be operating costs, ie the club operating with an overdraft, but that the stadium costs will be similar to Arsenal. So yes, it will be very similar to Arsenal, but we have a much lower wage bill, much lower overheads and so should be able to cope with the costs slightly better than they have been able to. In other words we should still have money to invest on players, without any investment from the owners, unlike Arsenal who are having to sell to buy.}

15 Oct 2010 14:57:55
Manchester United Rumours
~But ed they have only accepted one offer and that was from NESV days ago. Lim has never had a bid accepted. {ed's note - what is your point? No one said Lim had a bid accepted, I said he was the PREFERRED bidder initially.}

~I see what you mean now Ed, Up until NESV's bid was accepted by Liverpool, Lim was the favourite for the takeover? But NESV done something to get ahead of him?

Are you certain NESV offered to not use a leveraged buy-out to get ahead or is that what you are assuming? Also could it be possible that NESV have offered to only borrow a percentage of the 300m rather than all 300m?

Was Lim going to buy Liverpool outright? Seems a bit unlikely when he only has a estimated personal fortune of just 950m sterling. Could he have been lying about having the money right up until the last moment? Which is the reason for NESV jumping ahead of him?

{Editor's Note: The reason is the experience NESV have in the field. They have had success running sports-based business. Lim is an experienced in making investments. The choise was based on what was best for the club.}

15 Oct 2010 14:23:59
Manchester United Rumours
Sydney! {ed's note - I would agree, except that NESV were behind Lim until they changed their plans to remove leveraged buyout from the equation. That is apparently when they moved to pole position and became the preferred bidders.}

~I heard that Lim was never in pole position, that he was never even considered, Lim himself said that the Liverpool board refused to meet him, so i am not sure where that info came from Ed, a Liverpool spokesperson also laughed off the Lim bid saying that he tried to get Liverpool on the cheap and come in with an offer at the last hurdle, the spokesperson said he was a chancer who had plenty of time to bid but left it to the end to try and get Liverpool on the cheap.

And like i said, Lim released a statement saying Liverpool have not even met with him or his people, they have completely snubbed him. Where did you hear that Lim was in pole position Ed?

Sydney! {ed's note - you are misreading completely everything that has been written. Lim said that he was in pole position and the preferred bidder until late in the day when NESV jumped ahead. He said that Liverpool's board refused to meet with him to discuss his IMPROVED offer, not that they had refused to meet with him. It was his IMPROVED offer that was referred to as the actions of a chancer and that was not said by any representative of the club at all.}

15 Oct 2010 14:00:56
Manchester United Rumours
Guys

Rooney is going absolutely nowhere. He doesn't want to move, which is the difference between him a cristiano. Rooney will come good, a contract will be signed and this will all blow over. Expect to see him in the goals this weekend. End of. . .

SAF will not be held to ransom which is what Udinese are doing for Sanchez. Yes there was interest but a quoted price of £25mill was laughed at. I agree Defour is a given and i susepct we will see a new keeper i believe likely to be akinfeev.

We don't have a great deal of money but what we do have we need to use wisely. Forget Aguero, Diarra, Gourcuff etc etc but i may have a wee flutter on Afellay as he is available on the cheap and is a quality player who is versatile.

Leaving OT will be certainly be Carrick and probably Owen. Gigss, Scholes and Neville will retire. Pogba and Cleverly to feature next year. Berbatov will NOT be sold.

Thanks

Stu

15 Oct 2010 14:00:36
Manchester United Rumours
Just because it doesn't have to be, doesn't mean it won't be. The loans were restructured ahead of maturity, remember. I don't expect there to be another restructuring ahead of 2017 unless the club finished outside the Champions League spots a couple of seasons running - which is far from impossible.

Darklard08 - Darks this is precisely my point, United will not have to restructure the debt until 2017, as they will not fall out of the top four before then, can you seriously see United finishing 5th?

Sydney!

15 Oct 2010 13:38:33
Manchester United Rumours
Actually thought a lot about my post- was my first and felt and fear that history is repeating itself here-doesn't anyone see a pattern with players that want to leave but can't come out and say it?(Ronaldo any one?) At least Fabregas said he wants to join Barcelona- Ronaldo wanted to leave for Madrid but never said it publicly. All i'm trying to say is that if Rooney never wants to leave then he wouldn't have stopped contract negotiations for any reason at all.Fear Madrid will make another mega take it or leave it offer in January or summer when- provided he hasn't signed a new contract- he will have one year left! Agree Hernandez is a good lively striker-one for the future-but we need a goal machine now!

@Look mate you have made the first mistake straight away by saying Rooney has called off contract negotiations the truth is they have not even began yet mate, all this originated from Spanish paper who are very close to Real Madrid, the stories you are reading in the sun & Mirror etc are just quoting from this Spanish newspaper.

Its time to grow up people and start using common sense. Rooney is going nowhere, at the very worst its his agent trying to get him a better contract. Vidic's agent done it, its pretty common.

15 Oct 2010 13:26:51
Manchester United Rumours
Just a quick thought on the root of the Rooney stories in the media at the moment. .

The stories are being pushed through Spanish sports paper AS, which is often no more than a propaganda paper for Real Madrid. The stories in the Mirror and the Star were taken directly from the AS article. AS (along with Marca) are often used by Madrid to "test the water" with targets or to try and break up their relationship with their existing clubs. Their stories rarely have much basis in reality.

I don't think there's any need to panic just yet!

DarkLard08

15 Oct 2010 12:39:15
Manchester United Rumours
Actually thought a lot about my post- was my first and felt and fear that history is repeating itself here-doesn't anyone see a pattern with players that want to leave but can't come out and say it?(Ronaldo any one?) At least Fabregas said he wants to join Barcelona- Ronaldo wanted to leave for Madrid but never said it publicly. All i'm trying to say is that if Rooney never wants to leave then he wouldn't have stopped contract negotiations for any reason at all.Fear Madrid will make another mega take it or leave it offer in January or summer when- provided he hasn't signed a new contract- he will have one year left! Agree Hernandez is a good lively striker-one for the future-but we need a goal machine now!

15 Oct 2010 11:05:34
Manchester United Rumours
Let Rooney go i say-hes been off the boil and if he wants to stay away from the negative publicity then get as much for him as we can! My ideal replacement would be Luis Suarez- pace, power , skill and goals- i wish we would buy him anyway to be honest! As far as the goalkeeping situation-i'm sick of hearing all these targets to be honest- long term probably go for Stekelenburg or Akinfeev- short term(because of the finances- and don't laugh- hes been a top class keeper in a mediocre team and would probably jump at the chance to finally win some silverware would be. . Jaaskelainen! )
Finally , this Liverpool saga- do you think it could end up being a test case? Maybe the Glazers feeling slightly more nervous now?

@First off, Rooney is World class whereas Suarez is not, nowhere near in fact. Hernandez is a better striker than Suarez. If United let Rooney go then the Glazers would get a very harsh time, they would struggle to sell 30,000 season tickets next season. Rooney must stay at United, or just for confidence reasons alone it would be devastating to the United team spirit.

Time to think before you write mate.