07 Mar 2012 22:55:06
So last August, when we didn't sign any top-class player, it was because there was 'no value in the market-place'. But that was ok because we had s**t-hot youngsters coming through the ranks who were ready to explode onto the football arena, especially two players called Morrison and Pogba, who were going to fulfill all all our midfield needs. 'Don't panic' we were told, SAF knows what he is doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least some posters like Oxred and others have their eyes open and can see that we are going in the wrong direction. Things are not right at this club!
J Bones.
Yes that's right let's panic and cry because 2 players who have done absolutely nothing in the game have left for more money to rubbish league's . Norwood is better than the troubled west ham boy and was pogba gonna take cleverly's place ? Any kid going to other clubs wouldn't of made it anyway
No name
Pogba is apparantly going to Juve for less than what Utd offered.
J Bones
Worrying times ahead for us maybe, I cant figure out whats going on but we do look as though we are going in the wrong direction. No value excuses have become tedious after 3 years of hearing it and not convincing the youth that this is the place to be is a big concern now. I guess we will see the bigger picture on the 31st August, I hope me, you and the other concerned posters are wrong about this ....
HERBIE
No name seems bitter. We were told that the reason we didn't buy anyone was because it would hold back the youth, well, the best has left, and the second best is pretty much gone. And no wonder! We see players like Gotze and Eriksen getting their chances and making an impact at international level. But what did Pogba and Morrison get? 3 Carling cup sub appearances. SAF showed he had almost no intention of playing them regularly when he started Rafael ahead of them in midfield, so I can't say I blame them.
Percy
Herbie percy
i agree with you both, im not a football fan who just wants a 30 mil pound signing for the sake of it , i just want our team to improve cos wer not even stayin at same level we r declinin. 1st excuse no value in the market 2nd excuse young player r money grabbing waiting for the 3rd excuse this summer. i tot if we wernt gona sign big players we wer gna develop the youth yet the players who we expect to be in the team for the next 15 years we wont even offer them the right money or playing time. our policy is youth yet we renew a 38 yr olds contract and bring a 37 year old out of retirement and ppl responce to this is that the manager dusnt think they're ready well both morrison and pogba clearly disagree with that and looks like the 2nd is on his way out. rumours sayin fryers is leaving too ppl sayin on this website that pogba and morrison situations were rumours to at the start, no fire without smoke, how long before petrucci, lingard and cole patience runs out yet will play park ji sung as captain or rafael or jones( gd player but bought as a cb) giggs even rooney in midfield , they're is clearly runnin the club badly 1st no money to buy players now no money to pay players i really home im deluded and wrong.peace
sulei
Lads,herbie,percy,sulei,
I feel your frustration and i agree that our financial situation is diabolical at the moment it looks as if we have to sell our up n coming produce and holding on to old wood.now I do feel part of it is that we need the money but did any of you think that
Fergie just didn't feel they where good
enough to go on and be rising stars like
Giggs and beckham and scholes were.and apparently pogba and Morrison have Bad attitudes backed up by their agents.trying to force the club to get more wages isn't the smartest think to do when you havent even forced your way into the first team.sir Alex is a legend he has massive experience in bringing players through,some have come through and some have not being good enough for Manchester united.and as far as bringing hot talent through he hasn't made many mistakes there.so maybe we are better off without them..now if fergie doesn't buy smart in the summer or buy at all,then I would be really worried.i do think we need to sell on a few players too such as,
Owen,park,berbatov!kuszczak
How can we be in decline when we're well on track for a +90 points season? Even if we do finish second to City, we're likely to have accrued more points than its taken us to win the league in previous years. If both clubs get over 90 points, then its just unlucky for whichever team finishes second on this occasion.
Incidentally, wasn't it actually Tunnicliffe that won the Jimmy Murphy award last season ahead of Pogba and Morrison?
All is not lost, we still have some fantastic prospects coming through at the club, and we have never been a club to cry over the fact that a player doesn't recognise what a privilege it is to wear the shirt. I for one, only want to see players giving their all for the shirt, win lose or draw, anybody who doesn't is welcome to leave.
'Bones'
You are talking out of your a$$, SAF never once said in August that there was no value in the market. He said there was a few players that he wants to bring to the club, but at this moment in time they are unavailable.
Sydney!
'Percy'
United never once said that they will not buy anyone because it will hold back the youth, that was a reporter putting words into SAF's mouth regarding Pogba. If buying a new player would block anyone's progress it would have been Cleverley he used as the example. United were actively looking for a midfielder in the summer so your post is kind of irrelevant.
Sydney!
Ashley Young? De Dea? Like it or not, these are top class players and both are proving it right now. It's easy to say 'oh, i dont want a marquee signing for the sake of it, but...' The fact is that you guys clearly do want a marquee signing. Why? So you can bitch about them being overlypriced like you most likely have about Berba for the past few years.
Manchester United are not heading in the wrong direction at all. When money needs to be spent, it gets spent. The fact is that there is new competition, the fact that City have the money to buy every player in the world twice does not speak to Manchester United's detriment. Som,e of youw ill bitch and moan all the way to the Premier league trophy (which by the way, we will win this year)
MDJ
Agree with Syd on this one don't usually though.but we did try for nasri and we did try for Wesley they didn't happen cause off greed
Dan210
Once again Sydney you cannot have a grown-up conversation without insulting someone.
You have raved more than anyone else here about our youth and how SAF was creating a new team. So now 2 of our brightest prospects are gone, but that's ok because one is only trouble, and the other has a greedy agent.
You constantly defend SAF, regardless of what happens at the club. So you say the only players that SAF though could improve the club in the summer were unavailable - rubbish. Does that mean for the last 3-4 years there was no player available anywhere that would improve our midfield? C'mon - wake up!
I take my hat off to SAF for what he is achieving this year, but the Champions league is where we need to be, not the Europa Cup.
J Bones.
'Bones'
Again you are talking out of your a$$, I never once said that "It's OK" that two of our brightest prospects are gone because one is trouble and the other has a greedy agent. I would have loved for both to sign, but it wasn't to be for whatever reason.
We haven't needed a central midfielder for 3-4 years, we have needed a central midfielder since the summer of 2010, but needed one far more urgently in the summer of 2011 when we offloaded Hargreaves and Scholes retired. In the summer of 2010 we tried to sign Oezil, but he chose Madrid, in 2011 we tried to sign Nasri, but he chose City. We contacted Oezil's agent in the summer, we spoke to Dortmund in the summer regarding Goetze and met with Sneijder's reps a couple of times during the summer. United tried hard to do business in the summer, if we never had funds for a midfielder do you think we would have spent £50m+ on DDG, Young & Jones? Don't be silly. Think about it logically, we could have signed Stekelenburg for £5m, or we could have made Kuszczak our number one and used Lindegaard as back-up or the other way round. We could have kept O'Shea instead of spending £16.5m on Jones. We didn't need to buy Young as we had Nani & Valencia. Are these the actions of a manager who has his hands tied? THINK! The money was there to buy a midfielder, the problem is who was available to buy out of the shortlist that SAF had?
Sydney!
DAN210
I think that Mr. Nasri will be cursing his Agents greedyness now. Nasri would of been a perfect signing for Manchester United but instead went chasing the money like so many of these stupid arrogant footballers tend to do.
Believe me when City make another load of signings in the Summer Mr. Nasri will fade into the background at the Etihad and you will only be seeing him sat on the substitutes bench.
Simmo
I still think the guy Fergie wanted all along was Modric and out of respect for Redknapp, Fergie let it go until a time when he may be available. He knew there was no chance they were selling him last year, which was proved right by Chelsea's failed attempt
There was two clubs looking at Modric last summer and even though Modric's first choice was Chelsea because he was settled in London, Jamie Redknapp has said on numerous occasions that United keep sniffing around. The problem is Modric is overpriced by Spurs, he is a fantastic player at what he does, but he does lack the goals and assists that a £30m+ player should give you. A player plus £25m would be good business IMO.
Sydney!
I've followed the club for over fifty years and can't remember a time (not even when relegated) when the outlook was so bleak. We can no longer compete in the transfer market and we can't hang onto players coming through the ranks.
Forget guardian Angels, the Glazers won't sell.
They're waiting for the day when English Clubs are able to negotiate their own TV rights package, as in Spain, and the subsequent increase in our Share Price.
We'll still compete in the EPL for a few years but as this year's early dismissal from Europe shows, no longer cut it on the bigger stage. Every fan who follows the team could have identified the weakness in midfield. Failing to rectify this and failing to do what we have been best at, the nurture of emerging talent, is a failure at the very heart of the club. Eyes have been taken off the ball.
Every body here have some valid points. But for me, losing Morrison and now pogba supposedly our two brightest "prospects" is going to be a blow to us the fans and the club. Youth do get a chance here but not as often as other clubs ie arsenal and barca. The most important thing for the club right now is to concentrate on the title and Europa league. This summer is going to be crucial in what players saf bring in, in terms of quality. Players like berba, Owen, kuz etc are not needed. I think two quality prospects like gotze and munian should be bought alongside an experienced payer like Martinez although he is only 23. We have enough British players in the squad to satisfy uefa quota system. There is no excuses left and waiting to see what happens in the summer.
I agree with Sydney to a certain point. When a player is required, be it a midfielder or a goalkeeper, most managers will draw up a short list of players they think are of sufficient quality, available & can be acquired for a reasonable price. If all these players become unavailable where do you go? Stick on FIFA 12 and see which young player seems to fit the bill in virtual world? We're talking about millions of pounds of a business investment with every player purchase & sale. You don't make an investment based on panic or on a whim.
I think the Pogba development is very worrying, just from a psychological point of view. If other young players think that Man Utd isn't the place for young players to get a start in their career then they will leave also. I do think SAF could have given Pogba a few more appearances in the first team but then if he wouldn't commit there's not much you can do.
RedMonkey
'RedMonkey'
I agree about Pogba, I think if he had committed in the summer he would have played far more often. The last thing SAF wanted to do was put him in the shop window so to speak and draw more interest in him. That would have made it much harder to secure him to a long term deal. You are correct about the shortlist too, you can bet your bottom dollar that Sneijder, Nasri, Goetze, Oezil & Modric were on that shortlist, but what do you do when only Nasri & Sneijder are available and Nasri chooses City and Sneijder asks for ridiculously high wages? Like SAF there is no point bringing in a player that is not much better than you already have, SAF made it clear that he would not be pressured into panic buying. I do trust SAF, but this summer will tell us the real story behind the scenes. It's imperative we sign a midfielder this summer, perhaps even two now Pogba has all but gone.
Sydney!
Syd
so what is your stance on united, you seem to think that everything is ok there is no problems we are doing fine, the glazers are having no adverse affect on the day to day running of the club and the team is progressing.
the thing is myself and others seem to think a bit differently.
i have a worry that the game has moved on and we can no longer afford the top players i dont think we can compete with barce madrid city psg in the transfer market.
im not sure united will pay over the odds when they need a player now like we have done in the past with players like ferdinant
nasri sanchez aguro pastore and sneijder were all available in the summer , all would of improved us.
there are a lot of good players out there surly a club of united size could do more.
of course players like gotze and martinez aren't available, but i have a feeling they will be once someone like city decide were buying him this year and put in a big bid.
we might of tried for nasri in the summer but wouldnt pay his wages , if rvp becomes available i dont think we could get him city madrid will offer more
when your best 2 young players leave that is a concern.
never mind what we read in the papers or hear as rumours we have still not been able to improve the midefield and for a team like united thats a worry.
but my main concern is that for me the team on the pitch is not as good and is going backwards. Yes we are second in the league but the whole EPL is going backwards look at the results in the CL, we are further away from barc than ever and madrid.
none of us really know what is going on at united but looking at the club from outside there does appear to be some issues,
ive been a united fan for a long time and to me things just dont seem right.
if i had of posted on here 12 months ago that we would not buy a cm in the summer , would lose pogba and morrison , would get knocked out of a very easy CL group , knocked out of the cc by palace , got stuffed by city at home and knocked out of the FA cup early on what would people of said
jred
My stance on this is of course we cannot compete with the likes of City & PSG as they are being funded by a sugar daddy on unlimited funds. I also understand that Barcelona & RM have more pulling power than us because they have a better climate, more cash and they also have the status of being two of the best teams in Europe.
If I was told all of that in the summer I would have been very disappointed about the kids. I would have been disappointed about the CL too, but we were knocked out by Liverpool away in the FA Cup and we fielded a reserve team against Palace so you win some you lose some. I believe we would have done better in a better CL group, because it was so easy on paper that is why complacency crept in. I think the City game was a one-off, three goals scored in injury-time because naively we kept pushing forward. We did beat them at Wembley and we beat them at the Etihad in the cup so we have a little revenge.
I know we haven't got mega funds available and I know we cannot get into a bidding war with City, RM etc, but we do pay decent wages and we do pay decent transfer fees. We were in a less impressive way financially when we signed Berbatov for £30m in 2008 and Hargreaves, Nani & Anderson in for £50m 2007. We are in much better shape financially, interest is down from £68.8m down to £40m this season. Our sponsorships have increased, we are due a staggeringly high new Nike deal in a season or two. I am not a Glazer apologist like RFT says, I just think they wouldn't cut off their nose to spite their face. If SAF needs a player for a certain position they will supply the cash, I have no doubt about that. They supplied £50m in the summer so why doubt there is any cash when needed? SAF has said he has never been refused cash by the Glazers, why can't we just believe that? If we never spent £50m in the summer and never bought a midfielder, I would say RFT is right, but we did spend £50m in the summer. If we were skint and only had £50m to spend SAF would have spent it far more carefully and budgeted for a midfielder which he wanted to bring in.
Sydney!
Syd
the thing is syd and im not being rude you have no real idea what is going on at united so are in no position to tell people they are talking out there arse.
you cant keep repeating paper talk and rumour as fact
it doesnt matter what we have in the bank it matters what we are going to spend it on.
i hope you are right , i hope everything is perfect at united but im not so sure and a lot of fans feel the same .
i was really surprised when we sold ronaldo and never invested the money , people said then this was the glazers cashing in but i didnt believe it i thought it was just a matter of time untill we spent the cash but it looks like the money did go on debt.
i was 100% sure we would of got a midfield in the summer and was very surprised when we never. (can we really compete for the tops players ,in the past i would of thought there would be a real chance of getting rvp but we couldnt even afford nasri).
when i first heard the rumours of morrisons and pogba leaving i thought no chance but look how that turned out.
if you had of asked me at the start of the season if by xmass scholes would be making a comeback i would of laughed, his done well but its not a step forward
our net spend over the last few years is awful.
I think we are a worse team this year than last that is the most worrying thing , we have a good team but im not sure it has the potential to be great. and we should be great.
you make a lot of arguments or you could even say excuses as to why everything is ok but its starting to wear a bit thin.
if someone had told me this time last year that pogba morrison CL etc i wouldnt off believed them but i am starting to wonder if we are really begin to see the cracks.
would you be happy if we never bought this summer but did try
on a lighter note should be a good game tonight
jred
On to some of the points here
"Dan" quite correct Nasri must be choking into his cornflakes every match day morning (If he isn't reading his bank statement)
Unnamed bloke who supported Utd for 50 years well so have I. Tell me were you a real happy bunny when we were watching the s**t in the 70s, relegated in 1974 if I recall correctly now thats like being a scouser
Onto morrison and pogba now the first is a dinlo who cares if he left the second is he like most footballers thick? He has an agent that is supposed to look after him,cynical me I think he's looked at the 2m euros that he will get and had a punt that is my opinion, again pogba couldn't have been that spectacular or he would have played more hence forgoing a reason to leave
Also bear in mind he only did exactly the same thing when we poached him in the first place, do we deserve loyalty? I think so but maybe he doesn't ..good riddance
All too often when we think we have great players coming through they often don't work out if pogba and dinlo were that good why did we need nasri or sneijder? oh and we bought Jones who everyone said at the time could play in pogbas position.
Now the Glazers are they best for Utd? Lets look at facts we are making more money now than ever before the success has similarly been pretty epic we spent 50m in the summer tbh that is more than enough money to spend in one transfer window did we get everything we wanted no! Did we try to get the 2 mercenaries yes! So there was more available.
Would we love someone to own us who spent 200m a year on new players, maybe I'm undecided on that
Lastly when have Utd ever been able to get the Messi's Ronaldo's and their like never its only ever by buying when young (Not Ashley lol) We stank in europe this year ,yes! We can only surmise what will happen in the summer but at least bear in mind Cleverly looked every bit a proper player when he got his chance would he if nasri had joined us from what I have seen nasri doesn't look very special atm
Apologies for the mountain of text tried to break it up so no ones eyes Glazered over (sic)
Pardoe
I told Bones he was talking out of his a$$ because a) He misquoted SAF, b) He misquoted me. I do not know 100% what his happening at the club, only a handful of people know that and most of them are American, but I do know what I never said and I know what SAF never said so that is why I said he was talking out of his a$$.
Like I said we cannot compete with City unless the player himself chooses to play for us (Ashley Young, Berbatov etc). City will outbid us in salaries, transfer fees, even agent fees, but they cannot buy everyone so when someone becomes available he may want to move to United or if he isn't fussed if he plays for us or City, City may not want him. City cannot bid for everyone.
Our net spend has been awful because we sold Ronaldo, if we never sold Ronaldo we would have him in the squad and would have net spent £60m more in those years. The net spend doesn't look so bleak then. I wouldn't be happy this time round mate, but this time SAF has had more time and he wouldn't have put all of his eggs into one basket like he did with Nasri. He could also increase his shortlist this time round. Also remember our average net spend might be x amount, but our net spend was £50m last summer.
Sydney!
Syd
There's no need to leap to the defence of United at every opportunity, we're just pointing out that the club is letting us down as supporters. And letting the youth down. You won't change our opinions by calling them irrelevant, etc, you'll just make yourself look bad. Because our posts are entirely relevant.
Percy
'Percy'
Sorry mate I should have been clearer with my 'irrelevant' meaning. What I meant is people saying SAF said we wouldn't buy because it will block the youth, well we did try and buy, that's what I meant by irrelevant. I didn't mean your whole post was irrelevant mate sorry.
'Pardoe'
Great post. On the £200m part, I wouldn't like to spend a sugar daddy's cash, but I wouldn't mind a sugar daddy clearing our debt and letting us use our own funds to buy players, it would be around £50m a season (net), after dividends are taken out. If the owner wasn't interested in dividends at first, then perhaps finish the stadium and make it a 95,000 seater. With the Glazers gone we would easily fill it.
Sydney!
On the whole suger daddy cash point.....someone put it to me a while back, would I not be delighted if the Qatar royal family bought Utd and we had unlimited funds to compete and win trophies. My answer was no, i'd be very unhappy. I am a traditionalist through and through and the thought of my beloved Utd going the way of Chelsea or Man City would disgust me. The values of coaching youth and bringing them into the first team, with the aim of winning trophies with them is what football is about. The likes of Borussia Dortmund & Athletic Bilbao are the most recent "perfect" template for success. (I know Athletic Bilbao haven't won anything yet but they're almost there)
IMO football in Europe is heading for a mighty fall financially. I don't think UEFA's Fin Fair Play will solve the problem of Player wage inflation/Agent price manipulation and it may take a Chelsea/Man City/Real Madrid to go out of business before it is taken seriously. Football revenues will not rise forever to cover salary inflation. We are already seeing this in Tevez's case.....he can't find a club because his salary is so high. This will be repeated more & more over the next few years.
Hate to be a prophet of doom, i just don't like the way football is going.
RedMonkey
Totally agree RedMonkey.
J Bones