08 Jan 2015 03:23:32
I found it interesting when Jred posted that Moyes and Van Gaal were on very similar points at this part of the season.

Without opening up a can of worms here this makes for interesting reading in regards to not only Van Gaal spending a shed load of money compared to the chosen one but Moyes did have to compete with a rampant Liverpool and an inspired Arsenal last year along with Chelsea and City. You could also throw in a free scoring Everton into that pot as well. Plus David Moyes had CL football to contend with.

If Arsenal or Liverpool hit the early season heights of last year this season would we still be sitting pretty in third place under these LVG's performances? I am not having a go at Van Gaal, as I have said previously I am not one for advocating the sacking of a new manager less than a year in the job (anyone who does has a poor understanding of our game), but it sure does provide food for thought.

1.) 08 Jan 2015
First off welcome to the site, great to have you here.

IMO Moyes did'nt have the credentials for the job, it was always going to be to big for him, unfortunately it was Fergie's last mistake to put his name forward.
Having said that who knows what he could have done if given the resources LVG got.
LVG has a better CV for the big clubs, he has done ok at this level in the past but he is very stubborn IMO, will he deliver the goods? Yes, eventually but we as fans are in for a bumpy ride trying to figure out his "philosophy", in fact I think he's still trying to figure his philosophy out.
Not my choice but he's here so has my backing.

2.) 08 Jan 2015
I agree completely Herbie, SAF had my backing through his tougher seasons, Moyes had my support until he left and I will give LVG the same backing. Although I will say in terms of 'credentials' I think Moyes has the foundation in place and after a year or so at a 'big club' (Everton are a big club) he would have adjusted. It wouldn't surprise me if another elite club take a punt on him in the future. Even now I hope he does well, gentleman on and off the pitch.

3.) 08 Jan 2015
Its not my intention to compare the 2 but it brings in to focus where we are in terms of last season.
Both managers had difficulties for varies reason.
I do wonder if the likes of arsenal and liverpool had played as well as last season and we where sat in 5 or 6 along side westham and southampton if people would be happy.
I think the difference this season is the club have bought well the excitement is back and when fit we have a good first 11.
Last year i think it was an average first 11 which also had injuries, we had 2 real good players in rvp and rooney.
But rvp only played 21 league games in the whole of last season, he has played 17 allready this year

4.) 08 Jan 2015
08 Jan 2015 08:43:06
What most of us seem to have forgotten due to our poor form last season was that we had a really good CL campaign under Moyes, better than we had done in 2 previous seasons under SAF.

We demolished Leverkusen both home and away, were unbeaten in our CL group with 4 victories and 2 draws. Nearly managed to beat the holders Bayern had it not for momentary lapse of concentration after Evra's goal.

And all the points you've made about Arsenal, Liverpool, who's to say Moyes wouldn't have done any better if he was our manager now without CL and only 2 teams firing at the top.

So, I don't think LVG has done extraordinarily well as some have made out, the performances were good at the start, but have been really inconsistent since then. It was the same with Moyes beating swansea 4-0, leverkusen with something like 4-0, etc. Maybe Moyes would have got results as well if he had been given a full week to prepare and 160 million to spend.

Which bring me to my next point that regarding performances and results, we've not done anything significant. But the team atmosphere seems a lot better now, and the confidence LVG has is showing. That's the only thing different from last season as Moyes was clearly out of his depth dealing with the press and being a manager of a top club. But maybe that would have come with experience, who knows.

P.s. The likes of Ferdinand and Vidic clearly didn't like Moyes's methods, and had LVG come straight after Fergie who's to say they wouldn't have liked him either.

5.) 08 Jan 2015
Resources LvG got? Moyes was given the $$$ but was probably overwhelmed by how much he could spend. He just doesn't have what it takes to attract big names to a massive club. All high profile targets were wary of uncertain times at utd. As such they chose safer bets, Alcantara being a typical example, Cesc even. Lvg even without the lure of the CL and inheriting a 7th finisher not the defending Champions has been able to bring players in. He has also brought out the best in Young and Fellaini. Moyes had my support until the home defeat by liverpool. It just doesn't seem right that his old team did better than us! Good Riddance!

6.) 08 Jan 2015
08 Jan 2015 09:35:48
Adey,

Show me a post that says 'LVG has done extraordinary well'. There isn't one. I think people appreciate in terms of results we are not a million miles ahead of where we were this time last season, and if we have the same points under LVG after 21 games we will be just about holding on to the Champions League spot and Southampton will be above us, but there is just a feeling this year that we are heading in the right direction.

At this stage last season I was still backing Moyes to succeed despite some major flaws in how he was managing us and the fact he looked like he was a million miles out of his depth. From this point on we lost a lot of games including 3-0 to both of our nearest rivals at home with no fight and no improvement at all.

Like jred said, comparing LVG and Moyes is pointless really, everybody knows LVG is a better manager, his CV proves that, it is just whether given time he can get the players playing how he wants them to be playing whilst also building the youth setup how he wants it and creating a strong position to leave us in when he does go.

Fergie should have spent his last 3 years preparing for the future and to some extent he tried to, buying players like Jones and Smalling who he would have expected to be top players by now, but unfortunately he kept too many players who were at the end of their careers just as he was leaving, Vidic, Scholes, Rio, Giggs, Evra, all players that needed replacing but never were.

Moyes had an extremely difficult job and did it badly, LVG has an extremely difficult job and is doing it better, but not amazingly. Given time I would think LVG could do amazingly, where I think Moyes would have only ever done OK. Obviously, we will never know this, but that is how it felt at the time and still does looking back.

7.) 08 Jan 2015
MDB you are being over critical of Moyes in my opinion.

The money that LVG has had was not available to Moyes at United (well respected journalists have repeatedly said so) and the players he wanted ie Cesc/Bale/Banies for example are of better Premership quality than Rojo/Blind and even Di Maria. The club simply didn't back Moyes with cash because he inherited a winning squad.

LVG has the backing because after a disappointing season last year the club knows that it simply cannot afford financially to miss out on the CL places again. To be honest I think the owners needed the disappointment of last year as a reality check.

Again not having a go at LVG but to berate Moyes for taking on a poison chalice without much help is pretty poor.

Ps. Your saying LVG has got the best out of Young. Yes that's true but Moyes got the best out of Januzaj and I know who I would rather have on top of their form in my team.

8.) 08 Jan 2015
08 Jan 2015 10:23:52
Its almost impossible to compare the two as there are so many different factors. Moyes took over a team that had a lot of confidence and knew how to grind out results when not playing well, by the time LvG had taken over the confidence was shot and the moment the team would concede a goal their heads dropped. Moyes had to contend with more teams playing well, and the rigours of a european campaign. But then some believe like me that playing in the champions league is of a benefit to a team. It means you have no time to dwell on a bad result as you have another game in a few days and you need to rest, train, prepare and travel to your next game. Where as a week between games is a long time to dwell on a poor performance.

I think you need to compare everything when considering how well a manager is doing. Not just points on the board.
Are the players happier and more confident this season?

What is the feeling within the club on a match day?

How are we coming across in the press?

ect ect ect.

For me the players seem much happier and far more confident both on and off the pitch. There is a fighting spirit back amongst the players too.

There is also a better feeling in and around the club, on match days in and around the stadium there is a feeling of excitement again, which has replaced the tense feeling of last season.

And there is no stories of ill feeling leaking out of the club, the media have moved on from their constant Man Utd bashing that was a daily occurrence last season.

Last season the months between August and December felt like a dismantling of a side and a club. The tearing down of what we had built over the last 20 years, regression and general backward slide.

This season it has felt like we our building and progressing again, you can see it in the way the players hold themselves on and off the pitch.

How far LvG can take us in that is yet to be seen, but we are moving in the right direction again. That for me is why LvG has my backing, and he will continue to have it until it becomes apparent that he has taken the club as far as he can go.

9.) 08 Jan 2015
08 Jan 2015 12:55:49
Chelsea weren't as good last season, nor Southampton. We also still had Vidic, Evra, Rio, Giggs experience. If posters are going to highlight ways in which Moyes had it hard then perhaps we should look at it from both points of view? These comparisons are a little arbitrary tbh, people will tend to use the points they think back up their opinion and ignore others.

10.) 08 Jan 2015
I for one can't see any comparisons between Moyes and LVG. Totally different circumstances for starters. Moyes took over a title winning team and eviscerated its soul, while LVG has taken over the mess Moye's left, and has us in third place and unbeaten in 11 games.

No comparison IMO. Not even close.

11.) 08 Jan 2015
Juanmatasbeard,
I stood by Moyes and was berated alongside him. How do u know he got the best out of Januzaj? I am just asking bcos that was his debut season, how can we possibly know what his best is, unlike Young who has had many seasons. You were silent on the fellaini, bit. He was one player we'd have thought Moyes would know how to utilize.

12.) 08 Jan 2015
08 Jan 2015 16:04:36
mbd, I think he's comparing Januzaj's form last season, to this one, when he talks about getting the best out of him.

13.) 08 Jan 2015
It is quite silly to compare as each had very different circumstances but also the criticism of moyes is unwarranted as he took over a team with arguably his star player Rooney wanting out having fallen out with Fergie.

Through out the season RVP was injured and our 3 key defenders all looking like they were on their last legs and many here calling for their heads, Now you lot are shifting where the wind blows and talking about losing all that experience. Fellaini and young had injuries most of the year and hardly played and sae goes for Nani and evans, smelling and evans did their usual 2 weeks fit 4 weeks out and took turns and same with rafael.

I should pull up some old post by almost everyone asking for Evra's head and Rio and Vidic being finished and should never play for us LOL.

I think it is interesting people blast moyes for finishing 7th with a shocker of a summer transfer business but happy to finish 4th with a 150 mill spent.

BTW shaw and herrera were Moyes recruits and the caretaker manager said so in Jan when they are out here and said shaw was a certainty in the summer. Blind, Rojo are definitely LVG recruits.

We should all move on as the 2 circumstances were so different and we will never know what was going on. One thing for sure was a very ageing squad with many key players in their last year of contracts and the team Moyes took over was grossly overrated evident by the fact that we can't move anyone on 2 years later and still trying lol.

14.) 08 Jan 2015
I can't think of one redeeming feature of Moyes's time in charge. Maybe the introduction of Januzaj but that is it. Everything else was as bad as it could get.

15.) 08 Jan 2015
08 Jan 2015 18:22:49
Gcu, I totally agree. As I said in my post the comparison is arbitrary at best. I felt I had to mention the loss of experience and other factors purely because others above me had chosen to mention the pro-Moyes factors without mentioning the anti-Moyes factors, if that makes sense.

I do agree tho, we should draw a line under thus one and move on.

16.) 08 Jan 2015
Interesting it was mentioned that we can't move people on, when the arch problem is Nani and we still have to pay his £5m a year wages even when on loan after someone gave him a new 5 year contract.

Sometimes I read posts and wonder if myth is replacing reality. Nice man Moyes, insufficient acumen, rightly sacked and no warm thoughts will make it different. Move on.