Manchester United Banter Archive October 22 2013

22 Oct 2013 22:18:28
SAF's latest book is misguided and unnecessary. Whilst some will pore over every detail and revel in the salacious detail, it is not helpful that private conversations are revealed in so much detail. There is little mention of the racehorse debacle or the dealings of his son so we get a 1 sided view of the world according to SAF. It feels alittle like payback time and point scoring. Legend, but perhaps now living in his own persona.

I am looking forward to reading it. I am assuming there is a lot more than the juicy tidbits that the press is reporting and agree some of it is better left alone.

It does give you some insight into what goes on behind the scenes. The Van Nistleroy stuff is quite interesting and the Keane stuff is just a can of worms.

I think the Gerrard, Lampard stuff is unnecessary as both have been great players and servants for their clubs.

Like everything, I think we need to read the book in it's entirety as the press has a habit of choosing part of the story that suits them and sells paper.

Oh shut up you girl.

Its a book about his career, involving key moments in his career.

Do you really think he would reveal certain stories without consulting the people involved in certain stories.

Its a fascinating read into the great manager to ever live.

He may be the greatest manager ever but from the snippets I've read he's starting to sound like a very bitter little old man! He seems to be taking this opportunity to play down the importance of some of his biggest stars therefore making himself seem more superior. Had it not been for the luck of the beckham and co era he may not have had so much success, and so much money to then support the team in future, he sounds very ungrateful!

Happy.

Fergie came in a totally transformed our youth system enabling the like of the scholes era to flourish, is certainly was not luck and to suggest otherwise is if i'm honest a wee bit disrespectful to him.
I agree with AJH in some sense but its his book so of corse its going to be one-sided mate, but tbh I couldn't care less if he brought a billboard and printed wot he thought of every1 its his choice and a book most have waited a long time for!
Theres nothing really new from wot I can see that we didn't already know anyway.:-)

For a manager who almost invented the siege mentality and promoted the what happens in the dressing stays there attitude I'm surprised at some of the things in the book.
Kean can be an arse but I think he made a couple of good points about the book

Jred

"No one is bigger than United", is a very popular phrase in footie forums. Its been used for Keane, Becks, Rooney etc. While I hate to say it, but I can't help but feel this way, Fergie sure thought he was as big as United if not bigger. I was initially excited about what was there in the book, but it indeed does come out as bitter and "his side" of it. He is a genius "no doot abo that", but a FLAWED one. I specially feel for Becks, he has always been respectful toward the club, the fans and Fergie, yet Fergie never let's a chance go by to somehow malign him. "He was the only player who played for me and chose to be famous". Hmm

Deeps.

For Keane to slate Fergie for badmouthing people in a book, sort of reeks of hypocrisy.

StevieK

Deeps
I though his criticism of Becks was a bit harsh .
Don't get me wrong I think it will be a great read and interesting, gives the fans a good insight into some of the things that have gone on but some players may think he has broken an UN written rule

Stevie

Agree with you on the Keane bit. However, SAF hasn't quite covered himself on glory considering the fact that he has done exactly what he had once banished. Imagine anyone else coming out with a biography(United staff/player) discussing things or conversations that happened in the dressing room.

Deeps.

I agree Deeps. Whilst I have revered the man since he came to Utd, I can honestly say, he's always been a hard man to like. Suppose it's what they always say - nice guys come last.

StevieK

22 Oct 2013 21:35:55
Reus of for a defender. See not just moyes who does this when we need a win

Away from home in the champions league versus home to Southampton, when I saw this happen I knew some smart Alex would post, but if you can't tell the difference between the two then there's no hope.

22 Oct 2013 22:07:56
they are 2 very different managers with different style's, kloop does not play longballs and is a better coach then moyes. thenew52

Zee

Klop has the players and moyes does not. The average age of Klop's team is 24 and they can press and chase every ball. We have almost no one who can do that all game long.

GDS2

If you think away from home or at home is what matters in the context of the game and what any decent manager does, I wonder who is the smart alex.

22 Oct 2013 23:12:05
they are 2 very different managers with different style's, kloop does not play longballs and is a better coach then moyes.

The difference is klopp still had dortmund pressing high up the pitch whereas moyes had us dropping deep.
same substitution, different tactic

Babyfaced

Have you ever played football. We are not a pressing team, for that you need young players and and pace in the middle of the park. Unless you can press collectively as a unit you can't play that way and we are not a pressing unit. If we tried and played that way with the current players, we would get killed and concede too many goals.

Try making 5 to 6 changes to the team with new players before we can play that way. BUT if it makes you feel better yep it is moyes fault.

GCD

You'll use all the possible vocabulary to justify the mighty Moyes for what he did on that game.

But just think a bit outside of the box. Do you really want to compare the situation?
Kloop was winning an away game against the unbeaten the BPL top team atm, he defended but never backed down and won. We did not.

For you it's the same to defend an 1-0 against Madrid or Southend(not to disrespect).

I get your point, Moyes is not to blame for the poor season so far.

Nick86

Moyes will ultimately take blame for a poor season but the players are also culpable. Everyone seems to be bent on blaming him for everything, which is bs.

My biggest issue with him is he screwed up in the summer transfer window but also believe the Rooney situation must have been very difficult to manage and allow him some slack. I prefer to wait and see how he goes over the next 8 months.

The stuff with Out with Moyes is Ludicrous given the fact that we have played 8 games and a win tonight probably secures CL qualifications and still in all other cup competitions.

The next 8 weeks will see us hopefully get back up the table in the league, the other leaders will ave their own problems.

22 Oct 2013 16:19:19
Hi eds. just wondering if you're aware of any interest from other teams in any of our players for possible January sales/loans? Cheers! {Ed002's Note - Not really at this time.}

22 Oct 2013 18:40:59
Now there's a surprise Fergie doesn't discuss the rock of Gibraltar or the 99 questions in his book. Wonder why

Terrified of the coolmore mafia that's why he gave up his case against them fo shares in the horse he's hated by all those at the stables in ireland

Be interesting to see spud faces reaction after fergie repeated the I want to leave conversation, he's not done moyes any favours releasing this now, for everyone who thinks fergie only did what was best for utd think again.

John

He has launched into a lot of people. Keane has already shot back saying Fergie does not know what loyalty is. I think both of them are prickly characters and in this case not sure if he has United's best interest in mind(Fergie). What is commendable is how Becks has never been party to such mud slinging. He just loves the club and shows it in every walk of life.

Deeps.

Thank you Johndenton well said

Surely the settlement included a silence clause? That would be pretty standard I believe.

I don't think it is a big deal as most people who are not too biased one way or the other were never in doubt about that and in the long run the outcome will probably be the same.

Even now his general response is to never deny it and just go with the line "he is concentrating on his football".

He is still here and has worked quite hard on his fitness and general play. I still think he will end up leaving and his dedication is more to do being ready for probably his last WC and he loves playing for England. I am happy he has regained his form and hopefully can keep it going.

22 Oct 2013 16:14:32
Boys, reports and quotes coming out that Fergie has absolutely ripped into "The fat Spanish waiter" in his autobiography. This should be fun!

He covers ROG, Keane, Becks and Rooney. I just hope it does not end up upsetting the apple cart. But I have to admit it, I am looking forward to it.

Deeps.

22 Oct 2013 15:48:11
Over the last weeks there have a number of educated debates about what is going wrong at Utd but the question that has never been address IMO is why the board appointed a manager who lacked personal ambition.
His loyalty and his achievement at Everton is to be admired but a look at DM CV and you wonder why after 5 or 6 years he never tested his managerial skills further by either going aboard or taking the Celtic job and a chance to playing the CL?
It has been suggested that the club wanted to hand over the job to a safe pair of hands unfortunately that safe pair of hands got rid of the back room staff with the experience and know how to help DM succeed.
We have a very good squad that only needed strengthening in certain areasnot a major overall so failing to get transfer in the summer was a mistake but even so we should be playing better and remember even if win on Saturday will still be 8th with a quarter of the season gone.

22 Oct 2013 15:05:40
Someone who watches ligue 1 could you answer this please. how do psg set up when they play both Ibra and cavani at the same time? Think we could take a leaf out of their book since nowadays you don't see many teams play two strikers? Surely they don't play 4-4-2
Thanks

They have Matuidi and Verrati and just a host of superb players all over the pitch. Just a team of very good players and those 2 midfielders are both awesome players. If we had those 2 life would be so good :) {Ed004's Note - Matuidi is in the last year of his contract I think}

MCS; PSG like to play 4-3-3 with Lavezzi, Ibra and Cavani up front. The reason it works for them though is they have Motta, Verrati and Matuidi in the middle 3 who are all far better than we have and the minute!
For RVP and Rooney to work we need 3 in the middle. Carrick, Fellaini and Cleverly are decent players but too similar. Two of them together with a real, pacy box-to-box CM would work better. Preferably 2 new faces and one of three is needed in my opinion

Ed004

Are you sure on Matuidi contract, he would be an incredible buy. Engine like no other and just a very good all round midfielder. {Ed004's Note - I can't remember were I read it}

30.06.2014 is when his contracts up ED, i'd take him on a free for sure {Ed002's Note - That is not going to happen.}

Never said it was, just saying I'd take him

22 Oct 2013 23:11:39
That means he can negotiate with a club come january and leave on free this summer. Ed02 have we ever been interested in him and what is his likely destination? {Ed002's Note - How come "That is not going to happen" is not absolutely clear to you. What makes you think he is going anywhere? You need to step back from all of this fantasy football.}

22 Oct 2013 13:16:37
I really hope the team can re-group over the coming few weeks. I still think Moyes' has the time to turn it around, although I don't think he will. I am willing him to succeed as I think the man is a decent person and a good Manager; but he is definitely in over his head at the moment, and needs to make some big decisions both on and off the pitch, starting with changing the formation to a diamond type system - or a 433 - with a holding CM and two attacking CM players'. Rooney needs to be told that he is of more use to us playing the deeper role, until the club can sign some top centre-midfielders'.

Moyes' needs to realise that he has some exceptional attacking talent at his disposal, and needs to utilise them, starting with bringing Kagawa back into the team. He also needs to get his first choice centre-back pairing sorted, which will go some way to giving us more continuity and solidity at the back.

Moyes' cannot lose the players' at such an early stage of his United tenure. That would invariably be the undoing of his Manchester United managerial career. He needs to work with the experienced players' and try and bring them on board. He needs to be clear about the direction he intends to take the club in, and endeavour to ensure that his vision manifests in the best possible way. I for one am not adverse to a new way of playing; but ATM, we look totally disjointed, not to mention a bit clueless.

I believe Moyes' has until the end of November to turn things around before the powers at the club start panicking; for when they panic, it will be the manager who will ultimately take the blame.

22 Oct 2013 09:40:43
for anyone who's interested in the youth teams like me saidy janko now has his international clearance so he is cleared to play tomoz, he looked the dogs in the blue stars looking forward to seeing him, he is a right sided player at the back or midfield strong fast and technically gifted.

I have never seen him play, the U17 world cup in on at the moment and watched one of the games the other day and some very good young players.

Does anyone know who from our scouting might be out here for it.

22 Oct 2013 02:44:43
I have to say in the last few days of doom and gloom, I am happy to see Cleverlys praises finally being sung. He deserves recognition of what he has done in the last few seasons, and i'm sure a lot of peoples opinions on him have rightfully changed.
Of course he is not exactly the type of player we need right at this moment, but IMO he will soon become the centerpiece of our midfield.
Now a lot or people are still clearly bitter about how we let Pogba go, but I believe the reason was primarily because SAF saw something in Tom Cleverly but without the attitude.
We all know that SAF would never let the club be held to ransom in any way, whether that was for money or playing time. However he also wasnt stupid, if he knew that Manchester United could not have survived without this player then he would have given him what he wanted Ala Rooneys 250k a week.
I think SAF saw something special in Tom Cleverly, his drive, his determination, his reading of the game, his movement, his quick accurate passing, and knew that in some way he would play a big part in the future of the club. Therefore he let Pogba go. don't forget the breed of player we have always produced, the ones who never think they are bigger than the club. Scholes, Giggs, the Nevilles, Nicky Butt, Ole Gunner Solksjaer, Rio Ferdinand. the list goes on. And the ones who think they are bigger than the club eventually get shipped out and never get to play there testimonial at Old Trafford. For example David Beckham (Not that he isn't a Manchester United legend)
Anyway my point being that yes Pogba may have been the kind of player we needed on the pitch, but if he wasnt the kind of person that would have fit into our squad on other levels, then I can understand why he was shipped out. Same goes for Ravel Morrison.
However, Cleverly on the other hand, despite even being underestimated by his own fans, has given absolutely everything for Manchester United, and also for England. I think in the future he will come into his own, and be an integral part of our midfield.
On a similar note, I read the other day, a few people saying that once a players hits a certain age they don't continue improving. I have to say that is the biggest load of nonsense that I've ever heard. Players are always learning, that's ultimately what experience is, their understanding of the game will naturally improve, their link up with the players around them will get better, I mean look at how Rio and Giggs have adapted to losing their pace, players are always adapting and learning. Tom Cleverly will continue to improve and IMO will prove all the doubters wrong, and hopefully become the player we have been crying out for.
Anyway guys this is just my opinion, but I have carried it for a while now. i'm not saying he's going to become the next Scholes, but I would rather a player like Tom Cleverly, than becoming a team such as Man City, where every player is the new Messiah, and they are all fighting for the limelight. That in my opinion is CLASSLESS, and not what Manchester United is all about.

I agree that atm our midfield lacks energy that cleverly would give us but the fact most people are now saying we miss him in midfield shows how poor we are in that area more than how good tom cleverly is.
We definately need players who grew up around the club in the squad but we need better players than cleverly and welbeck against the better sides if we want to challenge in the EPL and UCL IMO.

I agree no name. Although I'm not sure he will be the answer long term, recently we have actually missed him and can see the difference when Carrick is partnered by Fellaini. We are way too slow in the middle and haven't got the legs needed, so hopefully he will be back soon to add some much needed energy. We did win the Prem last year with him in the middle last year and everyone gives him a pretty hard time and go way over the top IMO. Like you said, he loves United and I would rather have someone like that playing for us.

The OP was my post by the way, I had obviously forgotten to sign in. Sorry eds.