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21 Oct 2013 17:18:28
A few posters seem convinced and keep saying we all need to accept moyes is going nowhere for at least the next season and half at least and I just wondered why theyr so confident he will be given that length of time?
I certainly don't think he should be sacked just yet but things need to change quickly or he's in trouble IMO.
Im not having a go at anybody but iv yet to see a decent arfument as to why he will definately get at least 2 seasons like some have claimed.
The 6 year contract means nothing and even if you argue that he needs to bring in his own players and be allowed to put his own mark on the team then from what iv seen so far its a worrying thought.
I know this moyes thing has been done to death but i'm genuinely interested to hear why some posters are adamant hel be here a long time even if we fail to improve.
Im actually worried that by the time january comes if things haven't dramatically improved then the glazers may have lost a little faith and don't give him as much financial backing as he needs to fix our problem positions

1.) I think at xmas if we are still midtable, and 8-10points off fourth then he might be gone.
Even the glazers know we need CL football every year to keep the money flowing into their pockets.
I agree 6yr contract means nothing, i'm sure there are lots of clauses built into it.
I also think that moyes might be losing some of the players, I think they realize that this guy just isn't up to it.

2.) I think Moyes' has until the end of November to turn things around. The club will no entertain the possibility of finishing outside the top four, IMO.

3.) I think he will get this season at the most, but if come 1st jan we are seeing no obvious improvement and are not competing on all fronts then I can't believe the yanks will give him a shedload of money to spend.

19 Oct 2013 17:28:49
So after the city game myself and a few others questioned whether moyes was good enough and a few others insisted he needed time and our next 6 league games were winnable and we should get some momentum going after our 'difficult early fixtures'.
Well, 2 of those 'winnable games' have now gone and we've won none and tbh probably didn't deserve to win any so when do we get to the point when enoughs enough?
Dont bother telling me to support united no matter what and we were spoilt under SAF because Iv supported united since the 70s so know exactly what it was like before our success from the 90s onwards and don't tell me moyes needs time and is getting to know his players because he took over a team of xhampions and should know EPL players inside out after 10 years with everton.
This isn't just a post match reaction I honestly haven't seen ANY improvement since the first game of preseason and that's a big concern for me so where do we go from here? i'm not saying sack moyes but are any fellow posters concerned at the lack of improvement? And if so where does it end?

1.) 19 Oct 2013 17:51:52
About 90% of the fans never wanted him. But we had to give him a chance. But there is two much going wrong. From dismantling the back room stuff, binning the original transfer list, poor team selections, Rio, young, giggs, no kagawa, no zaha, no Hernandez, the wheels are coming off. The only positive has been januzaj.

2.) Agreed. moyes must be kicked out before its very late.

we r not attracting big players, and if we finish out of the top 4, a few will also not come. and clubs will sell us players like fellaini as triple the price

3.) 100% agree, get rid of him, nothing he has tried as worked.
Failed to attract any top player in summer and if we don't get champions league next year (and I really fear we wont) then the top, top players won't be interested.

4.) My biggest worry is we probably need to spend £100m+ over the next 18 months to replace ageing players and recruit the 2 top quality midfielders we desperately need and I seriously doubt moyes can be trusted to identify these players and spend wisely what's needed to keep us competitive.
Look at what we ended up paying for fellaini. I actually don't think hel end up a bad signing but even moyrs must know he payed at least £10m too much especially when you consider he cost almost 3x more than wanyama did.
Even if we went out and bought a world class creative cm i'm convinced we would never see the best of him because of moyes' negativity and obvious lack of attacking tactical nous.
We look like a rudderless ship atm with no idea which direction were heading and after 5 months we should be at least showing some kind of improvement but were actually looking increasingly like an average mid table side and if things haven't improved dramatically by xmas then there needs to be changes.
Unfortunately moyes is a defensive minded manager and i'm not sure someone whos been around as long as he has can change that mindset especially as we haven't seen any evidence of it so far even with the likes of rooney, RVP, kags, janujaz, zaha etc in the squad, half of which have barely had a chance {Ed004's Note - Over the next few seasons we need a centre back to replace Rio and partner Vidic, a left back to replace Evra, a minimum of one central midfielder to play beside Carrick and I think two wingers, with Nani, Valencia and Young being sold. That's not taking into consideration Vidic, Carrick and RVP will need replacing in next 2-3 years}

5.) Ed004

Exactly. Would you trust moyes to basically rebuild half the team over the next couple of seasons? I certainly wouldnt. {Ed004's Note - No}

6.) Ed004. We may have to replace Vidic this summer if he doesn't sign a new contract. It looks like carrick will sign a new deal tho. Also if we don't finish in the top 4 then rooney will be gone I would of though. {Ed004's Note - I think Vidic will sign a new deal and Rooney going wouldn't bother me as much. He is a very good player however, I think Kagawa would be fine in behind RVP as long as we got two wingers who play at a fast tempo}

28 Sep 2013 16:55:23
I posted yesterday that the next 6 games would tell us everything about what life under moyes would be like, well judging by today we are going to struggle badly IMO.
A home game against WBA shouldv been perfect to go out and show some intent but the fact is that for 70mins we created very little and in moyes' first 6 league games we've looked like a very average mid table team and that's a disgrace as far as i'm concerned.
Yes we were unlucky not to equalize late in the game but it was too little too late and we shouldv shown more intent from the start.
We have gone from the leagues leading scorers to a team who haven't scored from open play in 5 games and have had our worse start in 24yrs. That can't be a coincidence. Disgusted

1.) Again told you lads about moyes.but I don't think you will go down.

2.) How long do you think it can carry on like this until he's sacked?

3.) 28 Sep 2013 17:14:57
moyes and his staff are 2 blame 4 it

4.) I feel physically sick. How can West Brom come to Old Trafford and look the better team, Sessegnon looked far better than any of our lot? They used the exact same tactics that we used (and we were at home), and did it better.

We didn't create much at all yet again. Kagawa looked good in the first half, should have brought Hernandez off, pushed Rooney up top and played Kagawa behind with Nani and Jianijuz on the wings. RVP clearly was off the pace.

Nani looked much better, but still no end product. Time for Rio to hang up his boots.

I don't think Utd deserve our attention at the minute, we seem to care more then them lot. I'm off for a bit.

27 Sep 2013 19:48:11
For the last cuple of days we've been talking about moyes and his tactics, team selection, style of play etc and whether he fits what we all think a MU manager should be and tbh a lot of good points were made by everyone. Another thing MU have history of is bringing young players through and this is a point which I think is equally important.
Over the years we've had quality players come through into the first team and a lot more who may not have made it with us but have still had good careers in the EPL but in over 10 years at everton apart from rooney who has moyes brought through? This isn't and anti-moyes rant but I can't think of many at all. At one point jack rodwell was the next big thing in evertons youth set up but never made the step up really and is now in citys reserves and before that bkg things were expected of james vaughan who is somewhere in the championship I think.huddersfield? Not sure.
Is this just that nobody who came through evertons youth in the past ten years was good enough or that their talent wasnt nurtured in the right way to fulfil the potential? If its the latter where does that leave zaha, janujaz, powell, lingard, the keanes and a number of other promisingyoungsters at our club?
Like I said this isn't an anti-moyes rant just wondered what peoples thoughts were and if anyone can think of a player moyes had as a youngster at everton other than rooney and perhaps rodwell who has really progressed. I know he had ross barkley but he's only stepped up this year under martinez so iv not counted him.
Thoughts anyone?

1.) That's a good point I hadn't considered before. But thinking about it which teams have had a good youth policy over recent years?

None of the top clubs have that I can think of, all of them bring in players just before they are about to hit the big time or when they are already there. Wilshere at Arsenal, Hart at City, there must be more but I'm struggling after that. Players like Ramsey, Walcott, Bale, Oxlade Chamberlain, all brought in just before they were snapped up by another prem club (us in most cases).

Are there any clubs that do this well anymore, I suppose everyone is struggling because of the need for immediate success?

2.) Sween,
There does seem to be an obsession with instant success and I agree its not just everton that have struggled to bring players through but they have had 2 youngsters in vaughan and rodwell who at 16 were considered future England regulars buy many experts but for some reason never fullfilled the expectations and now barkley who has been on the fringes for 12-18 months but has only stepped up since moyes left.coincidence or lack of faith in young players? I think klopp has proved at dortmund that with the right guidance and support young players can flourish at top clubs still even players deemed not good enough by other clubs such as hummels or or talented youngsters from smaller clubs suxh as gundogan

3.) Yeah maybe he doesn't have a great record if you look at it like that, but again not many managers do.

Dortmund aren't a good comparison because they are a massive club in Germany and throughout Europe - they tap players from all over central Europe. Much more so than Everton. I actually played for the Dortmund youth team as a kid and the squad was full of Turks, Poles, Czechs and this was the early 90's. I can only imagine it has gotten more cosmopolitan since then. If Dortmund come in for you as a youngster you go without question, if Everton do then you bide your time in case somebody else better does. Plus the German league isn't as strong as most people think, you can play youngsters in games where it's pretty much a dead cert you will win, in England those types of games are now few and far between - more risk of blooding them and losing.

Those young players at Everton may seem to have been wasted under Moyes, but maybe they just weren't ready, it happens all the time - Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain - they all have great starts and then drift for a while as opponents know their style after a game or two and they get back to the reserves.

4.) Sween,
I was just tryin to say that klopp has achieved success with little spend and a strong reliance on youth.
I know dortmund are a lot bigger in germany than everton are here but it can be done.
Im happy moyes has given janujaz a chance and that's a good sign and hopefully zaha can be introduced in the next few games.

5.) Rooney, Barkley, Rodwell, Richard Dunne, Hibbert, Osman, Anichebe. Not the most impressive list but they did come through their Academy.

6.) Good debate guys. However, moyes keeps on getting his tactics wrong and fluffing his lines badly. He played young in two of these important games while also having valencia on the other side. All the time, he knew that Liverpool and city were packing the midfield areas.
Our games against Liverpool chelsea and city have yielded ONE point.
So there is not much point in defending moyes. He has got it wrong every time.

7.) All good mate, we agree to agree. haha.

I hope Zaha gets a decent run of it as well, he will never improve otherwise. I also hope Anderson gets a few games, he can look really dynamic some games, if he can stay fit he could be a real asset as well.

8.) Sween,
maybe Bilbao would be a better comparison?
Similar size in their country and probably a similar pool of youngsterss available due to only signing basque. Herrera, martinez, munain, llorente, de marcos etc and that's just in the last 5yrs or so.If youngsters are given a chance they can do well. Time will tell but hopefully moyes will be aware of our tradition and try/be brave enough to give our youth a chance despite the pressure to get results

9.) Yeah Bilbao are a perfect example.

Some managers work wonders with the restrictions they have imposed on them, obviously Basque-Bilbao.

My wife asked me in bed what was going on with the banter site, made me laugh, and when I told her about this point she said - "Villa seem to be playing a lot of youngsters don't they?", looks like the constant bombardment of games is paying off on her, because I think they are the only decent sized team pushing youth out of necessity!

Financial restrictions on Lambert means he has been relying on youth for the past season or two and as a result in a couple of years they will be a lot stronger than where they should be compared to their rivals.

10.) Baby faced

If you are watching the spurs game, that is why I don't think it is wise for us to go out with an attacking line up against a spurs type team as I think whilst we will have our moments, they will carve us up and potentially give us a hiding as our midfield and back line will not be able to run with these guys.

So it is not a matter of being brave but wise. Does Mayweather greatest boxer of all time ever stand toe to toe with anyone because he is definitely not the biggest puncher but has kicked everyones ass, if you know what I mean.

11.) Shahram,
Judging by the first 45mins against WBA I don't think there's any chance of us showing any attacking intent against anybody let alone the likes of spurs, arsenal etc!
We were the leagues top scorers last season and yet we haven't scored a goal from open play in the league for over 400mins! That can't be a coincidence surely? i'd be interester to know how many chances we've created in those games too because I bet its not too many.
I expected some kind of reaction today but so far iv seen nothing soI might just take them 4 away draws myself atm buddy :)

25 Sep 2013 17:19:58
Not posted for a while.
Looking at tonights game I hope moyes' has a go and sets us up to attack but judging by our league performances this season I just can't see it.
After the disgrace on sunday its the perfect game to throw the likes of zaha, janujaz, hernandez and buttner into the team and at least have a go.Im not going to start having a go at moyes just yet like some on here have but there have been situations since the summer which worry me such as the transfer shambles and more worryingly the lack of attacking intent in most games and total lack of tactical nous in others.
Moyes has made a big thing of our difficult start and maybe that in moyes' mind justifies our negative tactics and team selection but its done with now and the game tonighr and the next 6 league games are definately winnable so I hope we see a different mindset from moyes.
I think we all expected a season or two of transition but it has to be a transition and not a period where certain players fail to impress over and over again and young, hungry players are overlooked, get disillusioned and leave.
Nows the time we find out what life under moyes is going to be like and while i'm not convinced about him I hope he proves me wrong.

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09 Jun 2014 17:37:02
Im with you brendan.
For all the talk of a young,attacking side full of pace I actually think its the worst squad England have taken to a world cup since the 80s and have a feeling it won't last long. 3rd in the group for me but tbh i'm more bothered about getting our team fixed than england (and i'm english)

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07 Jun 2014 21:05:54
Hope you're right but I expect you to be dissapointed if that's what you expect

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Shahram,
Vidals a beast but I don't see him being available and I think Gundogan would be the best option that could be available if we sacrifice kags to get him.
Dont know how much you know about Rode but he's another very good option but I think Bayern are looking at him.
I think a quality cb will be needed when vidic goes but tbh I can't think of any that would be available and tbh i'd like to see jones and smalling given a chance but they both need to step up a bit

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GRUND,
Id say rio, evra, carrick, giggs and maybe vidic need replacing in the next 12-18 months due to ageing legs and young, valencia, anderso need replacing with better quality IMO.
Thats a lot of money in a short space of time and i'm not sure the glazers will sign a cheque big enough.
Obviously we have Adnan, powell, zaha and maybe michael keane who could step up eventually but they need to be given the opportunity.I think its going to be difficult but not impossible with the right man management of the youngsters and 3 or 4 quality signings but those signings have to be realistic targets. I personally think Gundogan and Rode would be realistic, quality signings for cm add a quality winger and lb and things look a lot better IMO and allow jones and smalling to develop as a cb pairing for after this season or when vidic finishes

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Finally we agree shahrah! :)
IMO Gundogan is the player we should try for most of all as I think he's exactly what we need and if he can be convinced to sign then i'm sure there's a chance of doing a deal wth Dortmund maybe involving kags?
Id prefer we kept kags but its clear he doesn't fit moyes plans atm and with Adnan stepping up it could be a good deal for us.
I think Sebastian Rode would be another good option to add the midfield