Manchester United Banter Archive September 22 2014

22 Sep 2014 19:48:19
With Blackett out suspended and Jones/Evans injured we have no option but to play Smalling and Rojo as CBs and Shaw at LB.

I am not a fan of Smalling so the sooner Jones returns the better for us.

Also Fellaini is back and likely to be available for the West Ham game. Make of it what you will.

I hope carrick is ready, would rather see him play than smalling. He has composure and mature enough to keep possession.

{Ed001's Note - in a back 3, could Carrick be the calm head and leader required to hold it all together? He could play in the central position and step out with the ball easily, forcing the opposition to have to worry about him getting on the ball.}

I agree Ed.

Carrick could be that calm head and leader we require.

I really don't want us to go back to a back 3. 30 min of defensive madness asides, the diamond is looking promising.

The only problem with that is that carrick is only good when he has time on the ball if he is closed down quickly he is always likely to make a mistake

Ed001

I hate the back 3 Idea of a back 3 and you are correct that it will not suit carrick as he is not fast enough to move across the pitch and would like to see us play a back 4.

The pL is not the right league to play that set up. It is so compact and fast it leaves you constantly exposed IMO. Martinez at Wigan used to play it and they used to concede goals by the dozen even though going forward they were good.

City played it under the previous manager a few times and were also a mess.

Carrick in a back 4 is better than this group because she is positionally a lot smarter and maturer and will pose a treat with his passing.

I am big fan of him and always been and think he will be a starter in the squad when he comes back. He has never had this caliber of players playing alongside him in the last few years and we will see a different side of him.

{Ed001's Note - I am not a fan of a back 3 either, it leaves too many gaps to be exploited by the opposition and is not as well balanced as a four.}

Ed001

You still based in Dubai or moved back to the UK.

{Ed001's Note - still in Dubai mate.}

Ed001

we should have a drink if you are up for it.

{Ed001's Note - yes mate, whereabouts are you based? I don't really know a lot of places to meet for a drink, so pick soemwhere and we will sort something.}

22 Sep 2014 18:26:41
The back four were a disaster yesterday but hopefully they all can learn from it. I think LVG should take some of the blame in two respects: the substitutions were wrong and we could have sat deeper against Leicester's tactics and countered. Rafael's rashness made it 3-2. At that point it would be nice to see LVG stand up and make a few adjustments.

I would not mind if Van Persie gets dropped for now. After heading in Falcao's beautiful cross, he did nothing but get caught offside and blow his nose into the grass. Falcao, on the other hand, looks very promising. His technical ability and imagination look quite special already.

RVP and Falcao look a good partnership better then Rooney and RVP

Im sorry but on current form RvP should be dropped

22 Sep 2014 13:23:21
What are the chances that we'll be seeing no more more panic stricken 3-4 yard short of the man passes?

This is by far the biggest reason for us crumbling yesterday in my eyes, as soon as it was 2-3 things got sloppy and the fear set in.

Some of the the balls being played out from defence were awful and Leicester just pounced on every one. No thought or desire to slow the game from the back due to the panic.

LVG needs to assign the organisation of the backline to someone and sort out their bloody distribution of the ball

22 Sep 2014 16:30:39
We look like arsenal from the last 7 or 8 years.Soft centred can be bullied off the ball but great attacking.We need 2 commanding centre halves & a Roy keane type midfielder.At least it ain't dull as dishwater as with dithering dave

Hummels would solve a lot of problems. Hummels paired with either Jones or Rojo would be pretty strong.

22 Sep 2014 16:56:33
Last week Blind was the best thing since sliced bread, a week later we are in desperate need of a defensive midfielder.

A strong experienced cb . Maybe vlaar wasnt such a bad idea after all.
I would go for a rb as well, raf can not defend

22 Sep 2014 17:37:33
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we lose 6-3 to Southampton in 1996 (middle of three consecutive losses?) and still go on to win the league?
Paddy

Interesting that Leicester targeted blind as our 'main man' and that he was the one that needed to be stopped.

Jred

I would go for 2 cg's and get rid of smalling. I agree on rafael too as all rb nowadays go forward but they have to defend first and foremost.

I think we still need a Pogba or Vidal like player to play with Herrera in midfield.

Our starting fixtures last year were so much more difficult than this year so the results are truly terrible.

Gcu
I think smalling could do ok with a good player next to him, he is big strong and quick just doesn't seem to have a cbs brain.
I don't rate evans at the top level
Raf can't defend he gets caught out time after time.
i haven't seen enough of blind to be fair but i'm yet to be convinced.
A top cb would make a huge difference to the team

22 Sep 2014 19:28:36
Haha GDS2 you making stuff up now? Where did I say we needed a defensive midfielder? Where did I mention the midfield or Blind for that matter? Read the post before you comment. Did you leave your reading glasses beside your bed?

My point is that the defense panicked and fear set in and because of that they made sloppy passes 3-4 yards short of the man putting our midfield under pressure and Leicester capitalised on it.

I thought blind played well actually but if he can't receive a simple pass From your defender you're asking for trouble. Rio or Vida would slow the tempo from the back. Smalling and Rojo were reckless with their passing

Therefore. the distribution of the backline can be awful at times

Jred. I did say many times that vlaar would've been a good buy.

22 Sep 2014 20:53:31
Bgolgo,

My post wasn't aimed at you.

Nomid
I haven't seen enough of him to be honest, didn't really notice him at villa . Played well at the WC tho

22 Sep 2014 22:03:40
GDS2 my apologies dude I thought was aimed at a previous comment I Made about Blind

Jred

Smalling is not that fast. Watch the 4th goal and rooney sprints back past him trying to provide some cover and Smalling looks like he has lead in his shoes.

He is the worst of the 3 in passing and positionally just so poor. They are a collective group that is mistake prone and not good enough for the style of football we want to play.

Agree GCU Smalling is so bad can't pass and postionally is very weak Evans was always one of my favorite players but at 26 will either need to be first choice or be sold Jones still has a future and Blackett should be loaned out Hummels and maybe Savic who the editor has said we had an interest in maybe its gone know could come in with Jones and Rojo also it would be a good centre defence Rojo could also be Left back cover

22 Sep 2014 11:02:14
Further down the page a poster wrote about de gea needing to improve on commanding his box. i think this is 100%right.

De Gea has been brilliant for us but 1 area he definitely lacks in is this area.

The goalie is the most important part of the defence in the game now as basically he has to be an extra sweeper (nuer. excuse spellind!)

not only that but a keeper breeds confidence into the defence by commanding his area and a confident back line is a tight back line.

the last few games there has been times when the ball has been put between defence and the keeper and it should be de geas all day long but he dosent come to collect in turn the defender gets all in a flap and makes a hash of a cleareance putting every1 on edge. this needs to be addressed in my opioion

To me De Gea is a weak link not because he is not good enough but because his lack of leadership Casillas buffon and neuer have this

22 Sep 2014 18:51:20
Casillas is and always has been garbage. One of the most over rated goal keepers ever. De Gea has improved tremendously and will continue to do so. Commanding of the box, when coming from a Spanish footballing past, is not an easy thing to do. It will take a while, but he'll get it. He is an excellent young keeper.

Casillas always has been garbage? Wow nothing like a good old HYPERBOLE

Deeps.

22 Sep 2014 21:54:07
Not exaggeration Deeps, just personal opinion. He is hugely overrated.

23 Sep 2014 10:15:32
neuer is a liability ! i wouldn't want him, he reminds me of barthez

22 Sep 2014 10:50:11
I thought we looked really comfortable up until the penalty and I was starting to think LVG might have been taking advantage of his time on the training ground following the QPR destruction and his methods were finally kicking in. It will naturally take time for the wave lengths to be picked up but it looked promising again initially.

However I still have to question his tactical capabilities. He was out Foxed by Pearson, Monk, Dyson and Poyet, these guys are hardly management geniuses or experienced at this level.

Man for man we have far better players than all 4 teams obviously, so it comes down to tactics and how those players are used/integrated - granted there is a bedding in period, but the same goes for the teams we played, 3 of which have just been promoted to this level remember. Monk has been a manager for 5 minutes and those Sunderland and Leicester teams are made up of Utd rejects, unknown players or journeymen pretty much (not slagging those teams but comparing them to our Utd players is just a joke). Burnley are a team full of dream team untouchables even for their measly price tags.

The one team we batter is QPR who are managed by an old timer who is widely considered to be better at man management than he is tactical astuteness. I think LVG will out smart most old timers, but the problem is there is a new breed of managers that are outsmarting him and the league is full of them.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the one team who has come to Old Trafford in recent times fearing a hiding, end up getting a hiding. Most come to get 3 points now, knowing they can suck us in and then break.

You could literally see Leicester grow when they scored that first penalty and LVG did nothing to stop it, in fact he made the situation worse by making the wrong substitutions and not taking the sting out of the game, it allowed the crowd to get behind Leicester big time. He didn't amend the formation at all despite Leicester starting to attack properly and weaknesses being apparent to a Blind man (last 30 he was shocking).

We have time before this 3 months bedding in period elapses. I still can't see where this tactical genius is and what he has actually done productive aside from sign players we may not have attracted with Moyes in charge, who cares if you haven't actually fixed the problem (CB & CM of world class stature where are you)?

When there are two paths to take he is consistently taking the wrong one, that is nothing to do with philosophy etc, it is all to do with bad decision making and it is costing valuable points.

At least we are attacking teams now which is the Utd way, but with our midfield and strikers Felix the Fulham Cat could have us attacking teams with wild abandon.

Long term can't happen if you don't take care of short term. My initial hope that the corner had been turned has been dealt a big blow as our manager again seems devoid of ideas and is asleep at the wheel.

Don't get me wrong Leicester have performed well this season, but 3-1 ahead and in control, to then lose 5-3 against any team from that position and be so bad doing it is a management catastrophe.

The new breed of manager know LVG inside and out, he was studied by them. With the players at our disposal we should have better management than what we are witnessing on the side line - if anyone needs to up their game it is LVG and sharpish.

I'm not calling for his head, I just hope Woody is calling him into his office and giving him a wake up call. His tenure has been littered with very bad decisions, nonsense/mind game comments and a demeanour that doesn't suit the predicament/gravity of the situation or inspire confidence. Maybe that's why the players collapsed in the way they did, they know they have time because the manager knows he has time?!

Yesterday was a freak result imo. Lessons to be learnt and apllied on the pitch but with a central defence of Blackett and Smalling we're always going to be vulnerable regardless of the embarrassment of riches we have in the final third.

Beast
You ARE calling for his head. You just don't have an alternative ready. Why don't you just go ahead and say it so you can say "told you so" later if this goes wrong?

Old Trafford would be like the Red Arrows training ground if Moyes had performed like this with the investment and performances we have witnessed (against the leagues easier teams as well) - just not sure what makes LVG so special to avoid criticism - winning the league with top clubs a few times in a long career doesn't make him immune.

I was really excited when we hired him, but that dissipated during the US tour with some of the contradictory statements and strange decisions (only the results covered the cracks, and they were bad performances against unfit teams for the most part) - it has gone from bad to worse since then. Every team has injuries but there has been no progress.

Throw ADM into any team and it will make it more attacking, no management needed - if we removed ADM we would look just as dull and slow going forward, (look at what happened yesterday).

It doesn't make him immune, it makes him more credible when he says he wants time to build something. Otherwise you can take any manager or even no manager with a team full of superstars and expect to win everything.
Am i siding with him on everything? No. He's made some bad decisions but you in particular are yet to say anything positive about him. Can you tell me anything he's done right?

The club has really backed lvg and signed top top players.
i wonder how moyes would of done if we signed the players he wanted last summer

Some positives for you, but the barrel is being licked clean here.

He was able to attract ADM & Falcao to the club. I don't think Moyes would have, other managers would have though.

He moved on Cleverley, Nani and Hernandez.

He is confident and carries himself in some ways how I expect our manager to be.

He does come out and say when we haven't played well.

Aside from that I am really struggling for any positives. 20% positive 80% negative for me.

If he carries on attacking teams then I will be pleased because Moyes didn't. However I fear after shipping 5 it will be back to safety first.

Jred

Amazing no one wanted to hear the previous manager saying the team needs a rebuild and this time last year he had spent 28 million. The new guy with a 150 million of spend seems to be living a charmed life and talking 3 windows.

3 windows to win the league ok I understand but 150 million added to what was a decent squad should surely f. cking finish off a team like leicester when leading 3-1.

I watched the game last night and he should have shored things up after 3-1 but sat there and just watched it happen. Strange no one gets off their ass to give players some instructions on the sidelines.

Beast
Now wasnt that easy? Cheers mate. I enjoy your rants

Gcu
I think moyes would of got 4 th with a 150 mil spend

Beast, didn't you say Di Maria wasnt a very good player?

Jred

With the current crop for sure and I believe we would be 4 to 6 points better off. I do realise we are trying a new system but the defending is atrocious.

They were analysing the game last night and you have defenders who are not even playing a line for offside purposes and all over the place. Blackett on their 3rd goal is 3 yards behind the rest of defenders in the box and complete disarray.

This is a function of coaching and someone marshalling the back 4 or 3 as I honestly don't know what formation we are playing.

Muire - I said that Di Maria is not as great as we are making out and not worth £60mil. He has started very well and it does make my comment seem rash how well he has played, but let's remember who we have played so far. He has looked head and shoulders our best attacking player, but for £30-£40m I would expect that anyway with the way Rooney, RVP & Mata have been playing.

We paid a premium for him and its just as well at the minute.

22 Sep 2014 10:39:54
Guys what do you make out of Van Gaals recent comments about Wayne Rooney not as good as a striker as he is being asked to move I to midfield.

I think that maybe a good move as he will help out the midfield as well as allowing Falcao van persie and Di maria to be in more attacking positions.

Rooney is not a midfielder for me. Gives the ball away too much and close control not good enough either. He's a number 10 all day.
Still a bit dumbstruck about yesterday. I really rate Raphael but when will he learn? Evans is not enjoying his football, as for Smalling, looking all at sea. Not much to his game I'm afraid. Blackett looks a decent prospect but looked out of his depth yesterday and I expect more from Rojo, he had a bad day yesterday. Have to agree with the comments regarding Dr Gea. He's not a commanding presence is he. He is an excellent goalkeeper but really needs to find his voice and dominate the box. Spends a lot of time in the six yard area. Does he have the character, that bit of craziness that makes a top keeper?. I think a four man back four of Raphael, Jones, Rojo and Shaw could work well. Competition at right back and in the centre is beyond obvious.

22 Sep 2014 10:08:17
I'm going to hold my hands up and say I was wrong to state that Rooney shouldn't be captain. He should be droppable, but he is the only player we have that seems to really care, or shows he cares. His body language yesterday and his attempts to galvanise were exactly what you want from a leader. I looked around the team and genuinely couldn't see any other player coming close to the passion needed, Rafael has heart but he doesn't inspire.

I was just on another website and it showed a picture of RVP & Rooney about to re-start the game in the middle of the collapse. Rooney looked like he had been to war and frustrated (in a good way), RVP looked like he was on a cat walk fresh out of hair and make up, you couldn't get a more apt summation of our problem.

This season is going to be a real battle, only Rafael and Rooney seem to be prepared to put in the hard yard (too soon to judge the new players of course and I was impressed with Blind, Herrera, Falcao & ADM yesterday, Rojo was poor).

Herrera, Falcao and Di Maria in particular look top class. The jury is still out on Rojo but he is being played out of position, hopefully Shaw will be back and Rojo will move into the middle. Blind is tidy too. I have to agree with Rooney though, he is happy to give anyone a bollocking or a look of derision. He is a good Captain's choice and as Captain I suppose he is undroppable. Right now I would drop RVP for Mata or Januzaj to play number 10 and Rooney to move to a number 9.

22 Sep 2014 09:13:26
Just a thought, I might be wrong

We know that DE GEA is one of the best shot stoppers in the world but he
is always reluctant to move off the line during a set piece or corners.
he needs to improve this part of his game.

Another problem is on the other end of the pitch, RVP. He has lost his touch and
has missed around 5-6 clear chances in last two games. LVG should be bold enough to drop him,
would love to see Rooney with Falcao upfront and Mata in #10 position.

Just compare our defense with the players like Kompany, Terry, Cahill or even Fonte
for that matter and we are far behind them. They all close down the attack to quickly and on the
other hand we just give attackers too much room to work the ball around and rely on them making a mistake.

Our defence is very poor but our attack is fantastic. Not sure what can be done about our defense until January though unless Shaw and Jones coming back makes things a bit more solid.

22 Sep 2014 08:44:52
What we need to realise is that this really is only the start of a bumpy road. Their will be big wins, disapointing losses, frustrating draws and bizzare results. This season is about adjusting, rebuilding, and getting 4th place.

To put things into perspective we lost one game yesterday, but then so did all the other teams challenging us for 4th place so we didn't lose any ground.

We made 5 big defensive errors and were punished everytime. that's unfortunate. The Ref didn't cover himself with glory either but to say that's why we lost is just looking for excuses.

LvG will look to defend by keeping possession and we didn't do that well enough yesterday, maybe Mata who is one of our best passers not being on the pitch yesterday was a mistake. For me Mata really has to play and one of Rooney, Falcao or RvP need to be dropped. Probably one of Falcao or RvP. Strikers are known to not be the best at keeping possession.

But we need to move on and improve, and with LvG in charge you can be sure we will.

I thought Rooney was one of the worst players on the pitch yesterday, he gave the ball away numerous times and his first touch has just deserted him. Also RVP really slows the game down, he receives the ball on the edge of the box and then holds it up for all the defenders to get back. Falcao looked a lot better, still finding his feet. i'd play Rooney up with Falcao and Mata in behind.

Our defence is the problem, if it was me I would play a 4, and have have Rojo in the middle and bring Shaw in on the left. Didn't think i'd ever say it but we could do with Phil Jones, he is erratic yes, but least he has a bit of bite and determination

Wayne Rooney set the Di Maria Goal up and was involved in lots of decent play in the first half.
There were lots of players on that pitch that were worst than Rooney.
RVP did nothing apart from the goal.
Rojo and Blackett were terrible, all over the place positioning wise.
Blind looked like he was running in quicksand for the last 30 minutes of the game.
The collapse was dreadful and LVG has to take a responsibility for it.
What didn't he buy a center cabk and a stong central midfielder instead of buying another forward in Falcao that we didn't need.

Rooney didn't have a great game, but he was by no means the worst. He had passion and desire, which we desperately needed yesterday, shame he was the only one.

Mata & Janujaz - I again question LVG's decision making.

22 Sep 2014 00:46:39
The phrase 'You don't know what you have untill its gone' can never be more truer than it is at united. We didn't realise how big of a factor Fergie was untill he was gone and its only showing now and somewhat last season how much Vidic and Rio did for the team defensively.
I have to agree with Van Gaal when he says that we all look to the referee but our players are good enough and talented enough to not put ourselves in the position we did. We all knew Leicester were good at coming back as evident at everton and arsenal but yet we allowed them to even at 3-2 we didn't take the initiative to control and calm the game and some of the players started to look shaky, mistiming and underpassing and getting knocked of the ball easily.
Alot of people are saying we should go and buy a world class cb but the truth is they aren't going to grow on trees for us and there is nothing wrong with trying to buy solid Cbs who might be just a notch down such as players like subotic, Scha.

Actually fergie big factor why we Ares copyright now

Subotic, Schar, Godin, la Porte are proper CB and much better than our lot.

The issue is we tend to overrate our guys that everyone thinks if we don't get a Hummels or Silva or Mangala we are not improving the team, which is so not true.

What would evans or smalling go if they were for sale and what would the above 4 go for, that should tell you if they are a major improvement or not.

I have left Jones out of this as it is early days but remember Micah Richards he was also one who even looked better IMO at a young age but so injury prone that he never realised his potential.