Manchester United Banter Archive October 02 2013

02 Oct 2013 23:19:38
A point in the Ukraine is decent, so the result isn't a bad one but once again, our performance was demoralising.

RVP must have had 5 touches. He seems jaded, IMO. When I saw a 3-man CM, I was chuffed but yet again, we were out-worked and couldn't keep possession.

Vidic and Smalling are our best CB partnership IMO, they played well. But overall, it was a lacklustre, defensive performance - we lack any kind of creativity or spark, its worrying as hell.

Sunderland on the weekend, I would say let's give 'em a hiding but being honest, I can see a 1-2 victory with a penalty and an own goal. the result is all that matters right now, though.

I just don't know where we're going to get some class from, in our play, we're so disjointed and easily over-whelmed.

Maybe Zaha will start and inject some much needed va va voom I think the time must be right for DM to try the lad he could be our most exciting and unpredictable player so we need to blood him in at a game like sunderland I just hope Moyes goes for the kill with no fear

If Moyes continues to ignore Zaha in favour of our under-performng wingers (namely, Young), serious questions need to be asked of the man.

He's making some really inexplicable decisions.

02 Oct 2013 21:59:03
A scraped draw. Overall a satisfactory result at a difficult place to go. We didn't really look sharp enough to get another goal, Fellaini looks what some of us said, slow and cumbersome likely to give fouls away particularly in Europe.

We sat a little deep as the game went on and it brought their goal but there was no out ball, RVP hardly saw it and it was about 70 mins before he got a touch of any real meaning. I wonder if he is frustrated with the lack of service.

I would have taken a draw before hand and we got it but we need to play a lot quicker and more incisively to have an impact on the competition.

Redman

RVP got completely outplayed by their two centre halves. They kept knicking in front if him and Fellaini all game.

Concerns over Fellaini tonight, where was the player who we couldn't get the ball off last season?!

Can't remember Tony V crossing once.

Can't remember Welbeck retaining possession.

Cleverly actually looked good, says it all about his team mates.

Carrick was, of course, masterful. But he had nothing in front of him.

But all that said and done, has to be considered a good result. We played 4 full backs and sat behind the ball. Poor conceded goal, but they had very little else inspite of us treating it like an attack vs defense training session!

Decent result but not great to watch rvp put one over the bar and welbeck scored not sure we had any other attempts on goal.
The question is with this team could we if expected any thing else

1-1 is a decent result. I wish socidad and leverkusen had finished as a draw.

Onward to Sunderland now, 3 points is just what we need. Then we can go into the boring internationals with things looking slightly better for us.

DodgyBanter

Bear this in mind mate. WE couldn't get the ball off Fellaini last season. OUR midfield, the same one that was bullied and out-worked by a LOT of teams last season.

Fellaini played well against other teams too, so he's obviously a decent player but our midfield made anyone look above-average last year.

My main concern with him is how slow he is. the man looks like he's running in treacle.

RS, myself and Red Man and Pardoe I think expressed our opinions about Fellaini and his cumbersome ways. He will be a decent player for us in certain games, but a liability in others. There were better and cheaper alternatives out there. We need a Herrera type. SAF wanted Strootman, Thiago and Di Maria, we would look a different team with them signings.

I agree Syd, he looked very poort tonight against a fast team.
They passed the ball very well and the tempo they played at was top notch, Fellaini struggled big time and looked like a statue at times.
I really don't see how Fellaini will fit into our style of play.

Simmo, this was my argument for much of the last 18 months. He isn't a bad player, but there were better and cheaper alternatives out there who would be more suited to our game. That being said I do see him being very useful in certain EPL games.

Syd and Simmo,

Agree. A high-tempo, box to box midfielder would've been a much better signing. I thought Fellaini would do a job but I'm having my doubts now, he's just too slow and immobile and he's being knocked off the ball easily at the moment.

Cleverley is no world beater admittedly, but was Fellaini worth £30m more than him? Has he made that much of a difference compared to Cleverley? I think Cleverley and someone like Herrera could work better than Herrera and Fellaini/Carrick. Quick, one-touch football, always available for each other. Like I said Cleverley is no worldie, not by any stretch, but I think we will see more of him in the future than what people thought. He may suit the team better than someone like Fellaini. We will see.

From what we've seen Syd I agree.

Thing is, this is Fellaini - it's not Thiago or Herrera, where you could say "he's getting used to the EPL/the change of pace/the physicality"

He's a straight-up bully of a midfielder who had last season to get used to the physical side of things, and it's not as if we are playing rapid-fire football so we are playing to his pace. but he still looks lost.

If Moyes' first ever signing proves to be a £28million flop, what chance does he have of being given a 'war-chest' going forward?

Fellaini carrick as a pair won't work imo infact its a major gripe, it has to be one or the other for me

Sydney

I agree with your views on Fellaini but Cleverly when needed most does not want the responsibility.

I watched us last night soaking up pressure deep in our half and defending deep and just breaking up play which is I guess become our style ver the last 2 years.

What is annoying is even when we won the ball back and guys like cleverly get a pass, he does even try to bring the ball out and he passes it backwards to the defenders, who are semi covered and have to hoof it upfield.

He has no bottle and does not want the responsibility and I hope to god we are not banking on him for the future. He is good for games against middle tier premiere league teams. BIG player stand up in BIG games and not when you play nobodies.

In the first half I lost count of how many misplaced passes him and Welbeck had in areas where it looked promising and we could have killed the game with a second goal with just a little bit of quality and before people defend these guys, they are professional footballers on big wages and can't do the simple things.

Shaktar is a tough place to go away but a 10 yard simple pass is a 10 yard simple pass and has nothing to do with being away in Ukraine.

I really think that Moyes has dropped a clanger buying him.
He was never the kind of player United would buy, he just doesn't fit into our style of play (all though there isn't much style at the moment)
I will give Fellaini this year and next year and he will be sold, the only reason I say he will be hear next season is because Moyes doesn't everyone to see that he's bought a dud and will try and over that up by keeping him for at least two seasons.
In my opinion it was nothing more that a panic buy to try and please United fans and that's not happened.

Simmo

Not a panick buy mate. We bid on this guy 3 times. Always wanted him and called him Belgium's best player. Not even their best midfielder as witsel is better.

I expect him to get better than this because based on yesterday he is not worth half of what we paid for him.

02 Oct 2013 21:50:10
Why not bring on Jones for Felleani? Giggs was not the answer when your clinging to a 1-0 lead. I think all of us would have taken point before the game started.

02 Oct 2013 21:39:03
Does anyone see what Giggs offers to the team now?! nothing I can see. Jones was surely the man to come on if not kagawa. i'm dying to see Jones play at centre back. just don't get it.

In my mind we need two centre mids, a winger. and start using evans, smalling and jones a bit more.

I'd sell young and use cleverly and wellbeck as squad players. hernandez deserves more chances as does kagawa. maybe not the night for either of them .

Who the hell would buy Young? Maybe we could get some magic beans for him.

Flint, who the hell would by any of the rest of our squad (with a few obvious exceptions)?

02 Oct 2013 20:17:14
Hi Ed02,
Thanks for the insights and clarity you bring.
Do you have an opinion on why clubs like shaktar and porto get so many top players early in their career and sell them on at huge profits is there link ups with clubs in South America or just fantastic scouting? Why don't we get them earlier? {Ed002's Note - There is a significant base of Brazilian players in Russia and the Ukraine and the work permit situation eases players moving there. Portugal shares a common language and culture and again work permit issues are different.}

02 Oct 2013 20:58:37
If Kagawa had lost the ball that many times and played as bad as fellaini has, he'd had been already been taken off.
Finding it hard not to fall asleep, very boring football.

Cleverly, Welbeck, Fellaini have been very poor and so many poor passes. I agree it seems if kagawa had played half as bad as these guys had done he would have been yanked.

They are an average bunch (welbeck, cleverly, Fellaini) and just bodies to plug holes. We get nothing creative at all from these 3.

I think Everton have done very well to get 27.5 million for Fellaini. I have no Idea what moyes is talking about thinking Fellaini is Belgium's best player.

03 Oct 2013 07:41:54
What?. what about benteke?. is he not a belgium international?

02 Oct 2013 20:28:28
Why is Rooney not playing?

Injured in training mate

Injured his chin in training, jones was involved. I think those 2 seem to have a bit of MMA session in training :)

02 Oct 2013 19:03:35
Starting XI: De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Vidic, Evra, Valencia, Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley, Welbeck; van Persie.

Subs: Lindegaard, Jones, Giggs, Nani, Young, Kagawa, Hernandez.

Squad for today's game. Loos like 5 man midfield finally. WE will win and was waiting for the lineup before betting. Happy with the formation.

I would agree looks like a 5 which makes sense away from home in Europe

I wonder what our guys do in training, Rooney injured again. Would like to see kagawa on for welbeck at some point. You know my views on welbeck:)

Should have used this formation vs City

Been saying this for weeks. I would still prefer Kagawa to Welbeck on the left in a 5 man midfield as will bring that bit of creativity that we need.

Hope RVP gets a goal tonight

Well done Mr Welbeck.

Watching our set up it makes you think we need just 2 technically good midfielders and not far away from being able to play most teams and be very competitive. I just hope we don't start backing off and defending deeper and deeper as were towards the end of the half.

The boys are doing well but just need a little bit more creativity and speed in midfield and we can open these guy up. Very happy with the score and will take a 1-0.

God created United

You were right mate. We barely entered their half, 2nd half, and were bossed for pretty much 45mins.

I don't even want to imagine this team playing the likes of Bayern, RM, Barca.

Moyes just cannot seem to get out of the Everton mentality - after 2 humiliating league victories, we expected change, but no. A point is good but if we'd been more authoritative tonight, we'd be flying home with 3.

02 Oct 2013 17:27:26
I started supporting united since 1985. so I guess I did experience united struggling in the first few years of sir alex. not saying moyes will end up like fergie and I do question his claim to being appointed in terms of his lack of trophy achievements and european experience. Nevertheless I hope most united fans give him and the squad their unwaring support and time to put things right. This does not mean we can't voice our discontent. Its plain to see the team needs reinforcements. Until then, let's get behind the gaffer. Personally I would give him until season end before passing a reasonable judgement. Through good and bad times.
Mancunian dream

Couldn't agree more with the post. We all want the team to do well, what makes this site so good is that supporters can voice their frustrations with everybody knowing that we all want Utd to win. Brutally Constructive.

I'll judge Moyes Christmas 2014, he will need a few months after the Summer cull.

I am in 2 minds. I believe the football is down to the players and we have quite few average players and if he is good manager, why did he not deal with it in the transfer window and do not buy into this idea he did nit get the backing of owners.

Fellaini for us looks like a melon and unfortunately it might go down as another one of our expensive blunders in the transfer market.

So his first decision as our manager was the purchase of fellaini, which does not give me a lot of confidence. I want to be fair and maybe fellaini's performance is also due to the support crew around him, but he will never be our midfield leader.

02 Oct 2013 17:18:18
I am pleased janujaz is getting game time. hope zaha will do so in the next 5- 8 games.i think the 4-4-2 can only prevail if young, valencia are consistent in delivering dangerous crosses after crosses, taking on opposition fullback with speed or trickery on the wing thus stretching the opposition and they need to form a telephatic understanding with our
fullback to open up play from the wing.
There are games we can play a 4-4-2 but I think not for majority of games
Mancunian dream

02 Oct 2013 15:31:35
Its difficult to buy in January but I don't think its going to make a difference whether its January or the summer in case of Herrera imo if Athletic are going to force a buyout. I have watched him throughout this season and along with Ibai Gomez has been Athletic's best player. I can see why Moyes wants him, he is pretty similar to Fabregas and, again pretty easy to see why Barcelona may have wanted him in case Fabregas left.

Great energy, quick first time passes, vision to play passes beyond the defense, pace and ability to play in tight spaces, he has got it all imo. Sydney! said on one of the posts that he isn't quite worth the pricetag and I sort of agree with him but was Martinez or Illaramendi worth what they were bought for? I hardly think so. From what I have seen Herrera is a year or so away from hitting the peak of his ability. In 2008 we gambled the same sort of money on an inexperienced Anderson, Herrera would be a better deal. We are in need now and we need to slightly change the way we evaluate players and how much we are willing to go upto. Manchester United has always been bold enough to take chances on young players.

I think Herrera in January could prove to be a great deal and would increase the tempo and intensity of our game, bring the best out of Kagawa, Rooney, Nani who like to play with the ball at their feet and play good through balls into RVP. I think we need to forget about Baines, and try and get Coentrao too in January, Real Madrid may well be willing to let him go.

But most importantly, imo we need a central defender and the time is up for Rio. Garay is of interest and I hope we sign him.

Konoplyanka seems an interesting one. I have only watched him against England and he was very good that day. Can't be much worse than Ashley Young can he?

Finally, Moyes needs to use this mini crisis to his advantage and wield the axe on some of the deadwood and give youngsters like Januzaj a real chance. The likes of Young, Anderson, Rio and Valencia need to be moved on imo and Moyes should be doing that in January or in the summer. Some mid table clubs might be interested in Young perhaps if they are desperate enough in January?

Hoping for a good performance tonight.

I think we may look at Herrera again, but I think it may be in the summer. I think we will buy a LB or loan one this winter.

I think we'll sign both a left back and a midfielder in the january transfer window.

We will be limited as to who is available due to the impending world cup and club cup ties.

Ander Herrera is one of the few who we could sign, Bilbao will demand we pay his buy out clause regardless of when we sign him, his club aren't in the champions league so he won't be cup tied, and he is on fringes of the Spain squad so moving clubs is less likely to have an effect on his potential selection. If anything moving to a top european club who may still be in the champions league may enhance his chances of being selected.

Baines I think is dead now so we need to move on, Luke Shaw will cost a fortune and will he hard to prise away from Southampton. We could go back in for Fabio Coentrao, he isn't first choice for Real Madrid and he'll need games ahead of the world cup.

There is very few top quality left backs available atm, beyond Baines and Coentrao it looks like we will have to look at potential rather than proven talent. Maybe we could move for Alberto Moreno or Daley Blind.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in january either way.

02 Oct 2013 09:36:57
Arsenal fan in peace,

wondering what you have thought of the prem so far as a whole, you've not had a good start, but do you think you'll get back on track soon? or do you think this will carry on?

also the January window at the moment looks to be your hope of salvation, so do you think you'll spend big with this talk of £100?

last point, from an outside perspective I think you need a clear out, my list would be (correct me if i'm wrong or you disagree)

lindegaard, buttner, evra, anderson, nani, young, valencia and fletcher.

we did this in the summer with greater numbers, and the positive is, whenever we put a team out we are confident that they can do the job, with a few additions obviously (some german guy.)

not going to lie, its good seeing you struggle, but its horrible seeing liverpool in a good position.

COYG

Lol welcome to a real page mate.
Now please tell me these quality additions other than Ozil?
We will be on track soon enough mate dnt u worry. This season will be interesting I must sau

What makes me laugh is how the vast majority of arsenal supporters all of a sudden, after 6 games have gone from wenger out to title candidates, i'm not saying you won't be up battling for 1st spot but at least judge it after more than 6 games. i'd say your list of players to oust is pretty accurate although I still think valencia can do a job for the team.i think in january we will bring in 2 players, a left back and a midfielder.

We'll get back on track yes, by christmas we will be top 4 I have no doubt. I don't think January will be major tbh, I think we may try and get a creative player but that will be it in my eyes. Your list of players is quite accurate but I would add Ferdinand as he will go and it depends on Fletchers latest comeback bid. If it fails this time I don't think he'll carry on.

I would add that you have started well but I think you'll end up 4th, your depth isn't good enough if you get a few injuries. As I have stated previously my prediction this season is City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal/Spurs, Liverpool in that order. Good result for you last night though.

Keep Nani & Fletcher. Rest can go.

Akie

I think Arsenal have started on fire. Playing beautiful football. The kind of swash buckling style that people generally associate with United. So congratulations on that ya! I would much rather want Arsenal to win rather than the dippers/bitters/Chavs.

The only thing you might want to guard against is your form tailing off. The winning mentality and the grit is something that I think Arsenal of recent seasons has lacked.

By the way Oezil has been a brilliant addition. Given you guys a huge lift!

Deeps.

We do need a clear out, that much is true

But Arsenal as always don't have the squad depth to carry them through the season.

A quality signing as Ozil is, he can't carry you through every game

Chris, I never said we signed anyone quality, I just said a few additions, but ozil and flamini have both been fantastic.

I agree with most of you that you won't take long to be back up there, it's half the battle having the quality but knowing how to get up there and win titles is something you can't buy. United have always known how to do it while I've been alive.

Agree with you re the clear outs. Finding replacements at the prices Woodward wants to pay will be more difficult.
Arsenal have been very good to watch and I think they will be there or there about come the end of the season.
I am sure our form will pick up once our manager starts playing with the right team, personnel and tactics.

Akie

Credit where credit is due, love the way you guys play football and Wenger is a top manager. Your list of clear outs is spot except Valencia, I would add Ferdinand to that list.

If it's any consolation RVP transformed our season last year and carried us to the title and maybe Ozil and Ramsey will do the same for you guys this year.

cheers,