Manchester United Banter Archive December 03 2013

03 Dec 2013 20:54:03
Saw a post about Pedro on here earlier.

I just thought I'd give my opinion.

honestly, I think he's the best wide man in the world, you've got your Bales and Reus', but neither are real wingers.

The great thing about Pedro is that he can hug the touchline, play as inside forward, cutting in type winger. he's either footed, finds the net a hell of a lot.

he's a big strong guy, does more defensive work than he gets credit for.

he also does this great little thing, when Alves or Alba have the ball and are bombing from deep he'll run across the fullback and drag him slightly inside which allows the fullback to get to the byline without any form of challenge.

he was our best player in the Qualification round of the WC.

and if he ever ended up at United I'd be delightled!

IMO he's a terrific little player and I really hope that he'll grace OT in a red jersey one day.

I really like Pedro as well, good finisher lots of pace, top player

03 Dec 2013 17:17:42
this may be controversial but I think that come summer we should sell one of rvp or rooney. obviously I would not sell them to a pl rival but I think it would improve the team tactically in our set up and style with the remaining striker playing up top and as the recognised main man (would appeal to both mens egos and thus form would improve)
this would work as long as we (over next 2 window) use those funds gained by selling along with the usual kitty to strengthen where we need most, namely a lb, a creative and energetic cm and an attacking left winger/attacker
so say rooney signs a new contract and we sell rvp, we then buy baines, mata and herrera.
rooney would then play up top with a choice of powell, kagawa, januzaj or if were to come mata as no. 10 then one of the previously mentioned on the left with valencia or nani on the right.
a midfield two of herrera, jones, fellaini, carrick, anderson or clev and a back four of baines, evens, smalling and rafael with vidic, jones, fabio and buttner as back up then ddg between the sticks.
this would give us a balanced, much quicker team and one capable of really pressing high up the pitch, good ball retention whilst also having a fluid and dangerous attack one I don't think we can really get with both rvp and rooney on the pitch

{Ed004's Note - I agree. We do not play the right system to play 2 up top and our midfield is not good enough. Personally I think Ferguson was moving towards a Kagawa and Van Persie partnership and that's the one I would like to see. I just think RVP will last longer as he does not require speed as much as Rooney. Only way I'd consider selling Rooney is if the money raised for him and other sales goes towards two world class wide men and the rest of our budget towards 2 cm's and a left back. I think we need to inject more pace in all areas of our team}

Or just buy 2 cm .
Edd 004/dags after watching city score goals for fun would you also sell one of negrado/aguero.

Mark my words with kags Rooney Rvp etc up front with a top class midfield we would be a top team.

{Ed004's Note - Yes because didnt Bayern tear them apart a few weeks ago. There are times with 2 up front will work}

I would only sell Rooney if he wanted to leave or he let his body go to sh!te again which affected his performances. I only want to see professionals at the club. RvP is the better out and out striker, but if Rooney can compromise a little and play in the hole we could be a much better side. There will be times when we can play two upfront and there will be times when RvP is rested or injured and Rooney can play upfront, but we should be playing our best possible line up and that is RvP upfront with Rooney slightly behind. Add someone like Herrera to the midfield and Reus to the left and we wouldn't look too shabby at all. Selling Nani and Young could fund a Reus move. Selling Anderson could go towards the Herrera kitty. Then perhaps give Zaha the chance he deserves, give Januzaj more games. Play Jones and Smalling at CB, Rafael at RB and Fellaini/Carrick and Herrera in the middle. Then I think we will see the results we need.

Edd to be fair bayern would tear any team apart on there day no matter what formation.

{Ed004's Note - Dortmund seem to put the game to them every time they play each other. Also the most recent game was not a fair reflection on how the close the game was and that Dortmund were missing their back 4 and Gundogan}

Edd 004
City r proving u can play 2 up front, Munich on there day like beat any one and on that day city and heart where very poor .
Like syd said I think Rooney and rvp can play in the same team in fact I wonder where we would be if we hadn't had Rooney while Rvp was injured or Rvp while Rooney wasn't playing well.r you really suggesting having only 1top striker at the club.
For me our forward line is fine I would strengthen cm and our backline before I sold one of our best players .

{Ed004's Note - if it meant we strengthened our team with world class players in positions we need then I would sell Rooney. I just think he restricts the football we can play. City get away with it because of Yaya but there aren't many of those players around. We would need two midfielders who IMO cover a huge amount of ground and are excellent technically. I reckons Lars and Gundogan would be a good shout}

I think people think if we sold one of either Rooney or rvp we would have different tactics and be a better team.
That's rubbish in my opinion the issue isn't tactics at the moment it's the quality of the players, it doesn't matter what formation u play if the players aren't good enough.
Our wide men aren't good enough.
Our cm isn't good enough
Nor our lb, who is our rb
And what's our best cb pair.

Edd 004
Why do we need to sell Rooney to buy.
I take it you don't think Rooney can play in the hole then

{Ed004's Note - not as efficiently as other players. He lacks the awareness and he has a very poor first touch at times}

Selling Rooney would be a massive mistake we only need three new players to be at the most elite level just need the very best, sell Rooney and we need another world class player, it would be very bad business his the most marketable player we have on top of being our best player

Edd 004
This season who do you think has played better

{Ed004's Note - Rooney}

Sorry ed 004 - But if 10 goals and 15 assists in 18 games is not efficient, am not too sure who you have lined up? Are you sure, you just don't like him may be. In which case, it is fair enough.

Deeps.

{Ed004's Note - No I do not like him off the field and hate the way he has treated the club. I also think once he gets this new deal we will see his work rate lower and he will not maintain his fitness for more than a year therefore if we sell Rooney I'm sure it would go a long way into signing say Di Maria, Reus and allowing Kagawa to play his favoured position I think that would give us a far more balanced team and those players would replace the goals Rooney contributes to as ATM none of our wingers contribute and Kagawa when played in his best position I think gives us a better balance}

Have u gone completely mad? Sell Rooney or rvp? Why? They are professionals and they know that they must do what's right for the team.
What happens if we sell one and the other gets injured or loses form? Put welbeck in?
We need to improve the midfield and left back areas urgently.
Selling one of our world class players must never happen, its not like we have loads of them in the current squad.
Should we not be getting rid of nani, young, vs!encia, anderson first before we start selling our best players?

Ed004
How many good games do you think kags has had for United .
I personally like him and I don't buy into the he has to play in the hole I have seen him play left and right side for Dortmund very well also for Japan.
For me him and Rooney can play in a 3 behind rvp.
Nomidfield deeps agree with all your points.
People wanted to sell Rooney last year as he wasn't playing well, he has been our best player this season and the same people want to sell him, they have just found a different reason

{Ed004's Note - Well Kagawa other than the Norwich game has struggled out wide left mainly because he doesn't have a full back bombing past him and then getting back into position quickly. However, I still think he's more suited to playing centrally}

Well I did say it would be contraversial lol
i know on the face of it this seems like an personic idea but we have seen in the past that we can sell our biggest players and adapt our style accordingly, and let's face it if we let our team be carried by rvp and rooney then there is a definite shelf life there, and I feel we are already behind (tactically) with most european teams and dare I say it quite a few of the premier leagues too. teams know how to play against a 442, man city get away with it because they have the personnel, we don't have that luxury. honestly when was the last time you were even 90% sure we would beat one of the top 10? ignoring the bigger teams who you expect to be really challanged, teams like everton, swansea and southhampton used to be considered pretty easy points (would be a tough game but confident would win regardless) now I for one, do get worried we won't get the result

SAF recognised this and I believe was in the process of changing things, just look at the transfers he was lining up. how different would our season be if they had come off?

i have faith in moyes ability and believe he will change our style to a higher pressing quicker game, and only hasn't so far because of the players at his disposal
however though I think we should sell one of rvp or rooney to get the best out of the other and bring more balance to the team, I have a feeling moyes may sell kagawa and attempt to just fix the midfield and stick with the 442. my worry is that although this would improve our squad as it is now, we will still won't be a top, top european side and will be in a lot more trouble when rvp retires and rooney loses his pace AND also may mean losing hernandez who would get more game time playing in the other system (as could either play up top or come on to change things up if was not working)

dags

For me, playing rvp and rooney together is kind of like the gerrard/ lampard situation had with england. like rvp and rooney both are great in their position (gerrard and lampard probably the 2nd and 3rd best english midfielders of the last 20yrs. no.1 obviously being paul scholes) and although they CAN play well together, the team seems to play better when only one plays, as that player has the status and confidence from being the main man, and will then push forward with another player given a set job behind them,
unfortunately in club football it would cause too many problems keeping both players, so to get the best from the TEAM, you would realistically have to look at selling one.
Also, part of the reason SAF was so successful was because he was the boss, players had no doubt who was in charge. if moyes did have the bottle to sell one of the two, it would one hell of a message to the dressing room that the team always comes first.

I think the gaps are there for all to see. We have DDG who has been great this season, then there's Rafael who has come a long way. We have two very good prospects in Janko and Varela who could be his back up next season. We will need to replace Ferdinand in the summer with a ball playing CB. LB has been an issue for a very long time now and it looks like it may finally be sorted in the summer. So we need a CB and a LB in the summer. Midfield is obvious. We need a busybody in midfield, a busybody who doesn't mind getting back and putting a foot in. I think we will look at this type of player in January. We will NOT sign two midfielders like myself and others want as we have already signed Fellaini. We also need a left-winger which I believe we will go for in the summer or if like the editor says, if pushed we may go for him now (Konoplanka), not seen much of him, but a much better player than Young. So to recap, the areas which we will be looking to strengthen over the next two windows are CB, LB, CM & LW. This should be it unless we lose players IE Rooney, Hernandez, Kagawa etc.

So my question is who would people buy for these four positions to replace Ferdinand, Evra, Anderson & Young?

Subotic.
Moreno.
Gundagon/herrera
Rues, salah, Pedro.

Jred, some very good suggestions. I like Subotic. I think Moreno or Baines. I do not believe Baines is 100% out of the question yet. Gundogan or Herrera would be great. Both would be immense, but I think that is fantasy (sadly). Reus (I like), Pedro (I like), Di Maria (I like). Haven't seen enough of Konopylanka or Salah, but I hear we are interested in both of these two. It looks as though the penny may have dropped for Salah so would be a great time to buy him.

Syd, I'd probably say:
Subotic or Varane
Shaw or Coentrao
Herrera/Gundogan Schneiderlin/Dembele
Pedro/di Maria/Reus/Quintero

Apologies if that order goes wrong. I'm at work on my phone haha

Ed004
I agree kags has had 2 good games Norwich and last week, interestingly the only 2 times I can remember him playing of rooney.
He has played in the hole a number of times and not played well there.
He has like I have said before played wide for Dortmund and Japan and played very well there so imo it's not the position its the style of football and adapting to both United and the EPL.
It's all about opinions but I think Rooney is a better player than kags I think he has shown that.
Although I do think both can play in a 3 behind rvp

{Ed004's Note - the only way I can see a team with Rooney Kagawa and RVP is if we sign someone for the right wing who is quick enough to add width out wide and good enough to come inside and change positions Di Maria maybe, and two cm's who cover a lot of ground and are fantastic technically and positionaly, such as Gundogan and Lars/Vidal, and a left back who can provide width but also get back in time like Coentrao or Moreno}

Ed004 - I have an easier plan. Get Gundogan for Kagawa plus cash, buy any one of Koke/Herrera/Hamsik and get either a Konoplayanka/Di Maria, we are sorted. Rooney and RvP would run riot of this service.

Kagawa is a good player, but when its between Rooney and him, its a no brainer.

Deeps.

{Ed004's Note - so what two wide men do you have? Currently I don't think any of our wide men are good enough. Januzaj will be but isn't yet}

03 Dec 2013 15:16:48
Ngiak is fresh from many disasters around him
Both personally and proximally involved
But ngiak understands not the predictions for out position at the end of the season
It's brilliant. Tough open league
No bad teams. All hard games
Ngiak is loving the challenge
New players like januzaj and Felliaini blending in
Rebirth or Rooney and potentially kagawa
Old deadwood will be removed, personal favorites are none
More exciting players will be promoted or brought in
It's a great new start actually for a tremendous transition
Ngiak can't wait for every game
It's like a box of chocolates
Let's us fans contribute towards the unwrapping of the box
Don't dismiss it just yet
This season may yet be our greatest EVER
gan

Have you been at the Haribos again ;)

03 Dec 2013 14:29:34
Nick powell scored again for wigan in a 3-1 derby defeat.
Fletcher Completed 90 mins twice in and loking a bit sharp.
Zaha giving some outstanding performances recently.
Enkagamane can be one for the future as CDM.
James wilson scored 13 goals in last 14 matches.
All the positives to take from the young talents and Flecther.Future is in safe hands I guess.

As far as this season is concerned we will be in top 4 by end of Jan. Mata and Lucas Moura may be available
in Jan as Mata is not in Mourinho's plans and moura has hardly started any games these season.

03 Dec 2013 12:39:37
Nomidfield, Danny Pughnited and Red_Sky the three beacons of positivity and hope amongst us fans. Bloody hell guys lighten up, are we going to have this every time we don't win a match? I must have seen these exact same posts 5 times from each of you now, we get it:

We won't sign anybody in January
We won't sign anybody in the summer
We won't win our next 2 matches
Every time we don't win a match is a 'disaster'
The dark days are coming and we need to start worrying.

Each time you consider posting one of these things remember you have already told us all at least 5 times, it will save you energy typing and me energy reading it again and again.

I think the next 2 games are vitally important, 2 wins against teams above us would see us into the top 4 I would imagine looking at the other fixtures, then we go into a run of games before and over Christmas that we should hopefully be able to win whilst using the squad.

Arsenal are going to start dropping points sooner than later, after Hull tomorrow their run is crazy and their squad is not big enough to cope with it.

We need to improve and I am pretty sure we will sign 1, maybe 2 players in the window. I am sure Moyes and Woodward have learnt from the summer and also from the beginning of the season where Moyes has given everybody a chance to prove themselves (some much more successfully than others admittedly).

We are by no means out of the title race, I am still 99.9% sure we will finish in the top 4 and John Denton will be giving £50 to charity.

Pot, kettle, black?

How many times have you made variations on this post?

GDS I have to agree here, its ridiculous, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, we messed up in summer, it happens to many clubs, City did it last season where they really didn't improve.

I think we just need to keep going and give Moyes time to implement his ideas. But a midfielder in january who has the ability to speed up our play wouldn't go a miss, I really think one of our issues is we don't move the ball fast enough to pull defences into spaces they don't want to go.

But I'm positive, Manchester United won't just go away over night like some of these other posters would have us believe.

100% agree, although its there opinions mate and they are entitled to voice them.

We can loose or draw any of this games even at home. Right now we're are not that big threat to anyone. We need to improve a lot to be able to take any advantage from the possible points that the top teams canwill drop.

GDS2

Nobody is forcing you to respond you fool. I don't like what you write either mate, in my opinion it's nothing but blind faith whereas what I write is nothing but negativity in your eyes. Different opinions mate, but both are welcome on what is a board for opinions and discussion.

Covey,

Liverpool didn't go away overnight either mate, it was a decline, nobody said we'd go away overnight if the worst happened - we'd just gradually drop further away from the title-race.

Gds
The thing is it works both ways, I'm sick of hearing we will be top by November, December now January.
It's blind faith, arsenal are playing well and have been since January I think I read that since January they have more points than any other team.
City and Chelsea will both improve .
Any fan can see we are struggling in cm and have been for years and are also struggling to sign the players we want .

I actually think we will sign a top class cm but if we don't I think we could struggle for top 4.
Some people have continued faith that we are the best team in the league no matter what happens on the pitch these are the people who continued with the we will be top by bonfire night etc.they are also the people who have been continuously wrong.
We are 8 in the league and the league never lies .
You may not like it but a lot of the more negative posts are correct at this moment in time

Yeh but a lot of u do continually recycle the same crap over and over again, I feel that was more the point GDS was trying to make lads!

Jred,

I have never said we will be top by any time. I think we will be in a better position by the end of January, but at the moment you are right, the league is not lying and we are 8th. It is one of the most exciting leagues in years, anyone could win it with a good run of games and as Newcastle and Southampton have proved, anyone can get up into the top 4/5.

The site was getting a bit boring so I apologise for my deliberate wind up of NM, Danny and Red_Sky, just thought I would drop a bit of a grenade and see what people came back with. Not sure I needed to be called a fool but I have come to expect nothing less from some on here. Interesting how some fully agree and others think what I said was an absolute joke, football is all about opinions and this season is certainly bringing about a great mix of them from us fans.

Course you guys are welcome to your opinion, if I didn't like it I would leave, I just wanted you to bite and you did, it's what banter is all about.

What I wasn't expecting was the penguin to come back and totally overshadow my post with a load of drivel above it!

We all want the same thing, 3 points tomorrow, so let's hope we get them and move up that table.

GDS2

3pts against Everton at this moment in time would be a huge result. They're in decent form. If we pick up 6 pts from the next 2 games, things will look a lot more positive.

It's obvious that Gan is referring to Fellaini, Herrera and Coentrao (loan) in his first comment, IMO. Maybe we'll go all out to bring in Herrera in this window, it'd be a quality boost for our midfield options if it comes off.

What makes this site great is freedom of speech. Yes we are all entitled to our opinions, but what I can't understand is that, when your team is down, that is the time u need to support them the most. Look at our rivals Liverpool,, their fans get behind them even though they have not won a premier league title to date. The amount of pressure today on managers is far more superior ten even 20 years ago. How many managers have saf seen off during his time of reign?? Do all of us actually think that David moyes doesn't know our weakness and strengths? Ultimately, the owners have the final say as to who comes and who goes. Right now, teams like chelsea, man City, spurs even Liverpool have more freedom to spend than oir beloved man utd. What they don't have, that we have is "Passion and Heart". That is what made us the most successful team in Great Britain. Just some food for thought guys. All what I said, is what u all know, I am just reminding yourl. We maybe will lose the battle, but we will win the war.

Gds
I think there is a happy medium, and you rarely see that on this site.
We are not as bad as some make out but we are also no where near as good as some think imo

That's the most sensible thing I've read on here in ages, jred.

StevieK

All posts and posters are welcome. To be honest, I don't agree with most of what GDS writes as it is completely overoptimistic, however, I fully respect these are his views and he believes in them and is entitled to air them.
Are we playing well? No. Is the manager picking the right teams on a consistent basis? No. Are his tactics proving right for us? No.
Are his substitutions making any sense at all? No. Were his transfer dealings good in any shape or form? No.
Do we have to say we're great and everything is rosey when it quite clearly it ain't? Definitely not. So unless we can be critical, then the team, the club will never move forward.
And for what its worth, I don't think we'll get a result against everton tomorrow, not because I'm being negative, its because our midfield is useless and our team is not defending well as a unit. And everton come with form and a beast of a striker. Negative? No. Realistic? Yes!

This is a banter site, a place to air views negative or positive, I am somewhere in between, the place to support the team is in the ground on match day, forums are for honest debate not blind faith and critisizing folk for having honest views, we aren't going to win the league this season as it stands, maybe if we can hang on till jan and then sign a couple of players in the positions we are desperate we may ave a chance

Well said, jred.

Think it's safe to say you are spot on jred. I also agree with nomidfield in some ways I just choose to be more optimistic and positive about things. I agree moyes has made mistakes but I put it down to him learning the ropes.

The performance against Leverkusen showed we do have quality players and the ability to do what we used to do to teams. I don't think we will win the league as it stands, but like jred says, we are nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe and certainly not financially.

The only way the sponsorship deals work are if the club remains successful, so it is in the owners interest for the club to do well. They proved they are willing to pay big money in the summer, even if it was on a player who seems to have bottled it in his first 3 months.

I don't think I am over optimistic, I am just under pessimistic, I feel lucky to support united, my whole life we have been successful, so why would I not expect this to continue, we have had thought times in the past and come through them, so let's hope we can do so again.

Can't wait for tonight, it's going to be a tough match but we really need to beat Everton, let's hope we can, it will give everybody a massive boost and hopefully if we do win people will give the team the credit they deserve.