Manchester United Rumours Member Posts

• Login
• Register

MUNCH's Profile

MUNCH's Posts and Other Poster's Replies To MUNCH's Posts

To MUNCH's last 5 banter posts

MUNCH has no Rumours Posts

MUNCH's banter posts with other poster's replies to MUNCH's banter posts

01 Oct 2013 12:41:02
Hi all,

I have recently come up with a theory that in my opinion could help understand the Kagawa problem.

What if Dortmund are the German version of Manchester United? Not in the sense that the club sizes match; but in their manager.

In this case I would like to compare Klopp to Fergie. I believe Klopp should have replaced Fergie based on him being the new Fergie in my eyes.

When we look at Kagawa at United and Kagawa at Dortmund we see two completely different players albeit playing different positions, he did however play out left occasionally and it didn't hinder his performance as much as now for BVB.

So my point is does Klopp manage to do what Fergie did and get the best out of average yet good players? Does he make them overachieve?

Look at how Kagawa is struggling at Utd, look at how terribly Sahin performed away from Klopp and now he is back is outstanding! Bayern left Hummels leave their academy with little fight but under Klopp is rated very highly. Lewandowski and Piszeck (spelling) do not perform for Poland but are brilliant for Dortmund. It'll be very interesting to see Lewandowski away from Klopp at Munich. Before Klopp only Blackburn were interested in a time of despair after all.

I am by no stretch saying these players are bad I am just questioning is Klopp just an outstanding man manager much like SAF? and is that where the mistake was made, by not bursting a gut to get Klopp in?

MUNCH

1.) I said from day one that Klopp would fit the bil perfectly. He buys players cheap, which suits the Glazers, then turns them into a UNIT. Something we do not have at United. We look disjointed and disinterested. No heart and no fight.
In addition, the criteria was to bring a winner with European experience, again, Klopp fits the bill perfectly.
Before Moyes starts spending the mega millions that we are promised, I would like to see him play our current players in a modern system, but he does not do that either.

2.) We really need to get over this talking about other managers lads we have 1 now.

3.) 01 Oct 2013 14:16:26
Klopp has developed a system that plays to all his players strengths and covers their weaknesses, he has also moved on the players who didn't fit into this system.

He is also very good at spoting the players who he can mould into his system amd he can improve them as players.

Kagawa has moved out of a system he fits well in into a system that is new to him and he has to play in a position that doesn't suit his skill set.

Lewandowski would work well in a system where he plays upfront by himself due to his selfish nature, he also requires many chances as atm he only converts about 25% of his chances. Bayern should be a good move for him.

Klopp is a fantastic manager and someone i'd like to see at our club, but as to getting the best out of your players? All you need to do is play them in their best position in a system that suits them.

I was over the moon when we signed Kagawa as I thought it might mean a change of system and approach. But sadly we are trying to fit square peg in a round hole, and unless we change our system then Kagawa will never repeat the form he had for Dortmund.

4.) He is also great for Japan so he will find a way to force his way into the team given time

5.) I honestly think he is more or less telling kagwa he dose not want him ican see him leaving then moyes will push hair do further up and then its one step away from stoke football under pulis god I hope not

6.) MUNCH how as Goetze (spelling) move to Munich worked out for him?

7.) He plays well for Japan and he doesn't play the 10 role for them

8.) 01 Oct 2013 15:36:53
Kagawa has neither pace nor power so he isn't going to be any use when running at teams from deep.

What he has is quick feet and an even quicker mind, he sees openings and finds space like no one else in our squad.

But to be successful he needs to be playing in a team that not only has a lot of possession but a team that has that possession high in their opponants half. Dortmund do that and Japan do too. That style plays well with Kagawas skill set.

We seem to be adopting a more sit back and counter attack style, to do that we need three types of players, we need midfielders who can sit deep and are strong defensively, we need strikers who are strong and quick to enable a quick counter and be able to hold up play, and we need very quick link men who can either run out with the ball or quickly make it into the final third as reinforcements.

Kagawa doesn't fit into any of those roles, he isn't a quick strong striker who can lead the line, he isn't a strong defensive midfielder and he isn't a lightening quick wide man who can get up the field quickly or who can run the balk out from deep.

Kagawa has no place in a counter attacking style. Now hopefully Moyes fell back on a counter attacking style as he didn't know the players very well and he wanted to keep things tight in our very tough start to the season. If he keeps to this same style between now and christmas then don't expect to see Shinji he come September the 1st next year. As he simply has no place in that style.

I'm hoping Moyes will now look to try a new style of play, but i'm not holding my breath.

9.) Shappy
At last we agree on something I've been saying the same thing for a while now

10.) 01 Oct 2013 16:56:08
I know you have jred, I was hoping that the signing of Kagawa might be a prelude to a switching of style. But alas it looks more like another Anderson where we try and stick a squad peg in a round hole.

If we were to move to a more modern more european style then Kagawa could be a key player in making that happen.

My concern atm seems to be with Moyes seemingly trying to set up a team to suit a couple of players. He seems to want to play both Rooney and RvP centrally but is trying to keep the width, thus leaving and already weak midfield over exposed. I though he realised this when he was getting Valencia to tuck in when we were under the cosh to give us more numbers in the middle.

Unfortunately that just isn't enough. Personally with the players he has available and the poor form of our wingers over the past couple of seasons I would drop our wingers altogether.

A 4312 seems the best option imo. The three in midfield would consisit of Fellaini Carrick and Cleverley so as we can control the game. I'd then play Kagawa in something more similar to his natural position in behind Rooney and RvP.

Long term i'd look to replace Evra with someone like Coentrao and Cleverley with possibly Ander Herrera or Koke. For Carricks long term replacement i'd loom at Verratti but with him unlikely available i'd go for Jordy Clasie.

But I don't see anything like that forth comming. I expect to see more 4411 in a defensive set up that unfortunately has no place for Kagawa.

11.) Shappy
I've been really disappointed by the tactics and formation to be honest I would like to see 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 but there's no sign of that yet although that might change if the results don't improve

12.) Like the man says "All you need to do is play them in their best position in a system that suits them" and that's basically the nub of the matter.

One would hope the Manchester United manager has a footballing brain good enough to recognise this rather than unsuccessfully pursuing a dogmatic approach, trying to shoehorn players into a way of playing which doesn't suit them. Otherwise, what the hell is he doing as our manager?

Its seems there is a concensus on this site towards employing a 4 3 1 2 and fergie had some joy with this system last season with the same players we have now.

If Moyes can't adapt to make the most of the squads strengths then I think we have the answer as to whether he's good enough to be our manager.

An interesting hypothetical is whether Klopp would be flexible with his system to suit the players we have or would he have tried to impose the same system he uses at Dortmund, even if that wasn't suitable? {Ed004's Note - I still feel as long as we get a very good left back then Kagawa could play out left. He would need a full back who works very hard offensively and defensively as well as having the speed to get back into position. I can't think of many players like that available apart from Coentrao who seems to be a very hard worker}

13.) At dortmund and Japan, Kagawa has a lot of technical high tempo athletic players alongside him. Need we say more?

MUNCH has no Rumour Replies

MUNCH has no Banter Replies