Manchester United Banter Archive February 19 2014

19 Feb 2014 23:02:29
Quick question for the lads, having a fully fit squad for the remainder of the season. Which situation do you think would united pick-up the more points.

1)Starting both Rooney and RVP, with players like Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj playing out of their favourite position?
Or
2)Dropping one of Rooney/RVP to play one of Mata, etc. in their favourite position?

I started to think about this during last week when the papers were saying we were about to offer Rooney 300k a week/5year deal. Are we better off without Rooney? Is he stalling our transition by keeping him in the team, meaning creative players are played on the wings(playing badly), meaning not buying top quality wingers because those positions are flooded with playmakers?

I honestly think Rooney is holding us back, even though he's a very good player, he's forcing a lot of players out of there position. Is this because he's a better no.10 than Mata, etc.? probably more because of stature at the club. Anyways that's my two cents.

3) playing rvp up top with Rooney behind on the left, mata centrally and januzj on the right.

Rooney is not a great no 10. His energy and ability to cut inside at pace from the left would serve us well until the end of the season, but long term I believe we would get the best out of him by rotating him with rvp as the main striker.

Sulei and Andrewb

Rooney holding us back? Is this not the managers top player about to get a massive new contract and could even be our Captain? Our manager seems to rate him and I can't see him being rotated on that kind of money, can you?

Actually I think we have pushed ourselves into a corner where Moyes position would be seen as weaker if we lost someone of Rooneys level especially to a rival. SAF could have moved him on and attracted a replacement, but that will be more of an issue now. It also seems from the outside that Rooney has been a stronger supporter of his manager than the rest of the team and his manager seems to want to keep him so unless there is a change at the top imminently or even Rooney himself wants out I would prepare for more of the same and Rooney to be first choice.

Never in a million years are rooney and rvp going to be rotated, 2 massive egos and 2 massive talents who would no doubt look to jump ship if they wernt playing every game when available, I personally think it would be a correct footballing decision though because there is 0 chemistry between them as a partnership, occasionally rooney will pick rvp out with an awesome pass but other than that they don't work well together in my opinion.

I am with Andrew B. Looking at our current squad I too would play Van Persie up front with behind him Mata cental pulling the strings with Rooney (Left) and Januzai (Right) marauding around. This to me would allow interchanging roles and get the best out of Mata.
Lets see what they have been working on in Dubai. if its the same Wingers rubbish then it will be a waised trip!

A reasonably successful Utd team will play 60+ games a season. Having two main strikers for one position means plenty of game time for both of them.

We used to rotate between two of Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Solksjaer. All quality players and I don't remember anybody having a problem with this arrangement.

We do suffer when Rooney is No 10 so better to play him in his best position as a striker.

Frankly, if RVP has a problem sharing then I don't mind him being replaced with someone who is more of a team player.

At least this way, we don't have to suffer a drop in quality by playing Wellbeck or Hernandez

But van persie is the best striker we have by a distance, we would be mad to rotate him, I think a lot of people totally forget what he did last year in his first season. we would have not won the league without him that's for sure!

Stretfordender, it's not a choice of rotation, its an absolute necessity.

If rooney and rvp get 30 games a season each, it means they are both fresh and they cover each others injuries.

More importantly, it means the team is balanced and we avoid stupid mistakes like playing Rooney as a No 10 and Mata as a winger.

19 Feb 2014 22:55:54
Not motd fever as about 4 wks ago I said kroos was the player I would love at OT above all others, really is a class act, I don't believe for one minute bayern would let him go they just playing hardball, but he is a joy to watch, on another note with jesse going to dubai and us knocking back a reported bid from fulham for him, i'm really hoping he is given a chance to prove his class for us in the coming weeks, thanks.

You're right on both points. Kroos was superb last night, what I liked is that he hit short, long, left foot, right foot passes. But above all, he played one touch football a lot of the time. Something that our current side don't do at all. All our players seem to take three touches before passing the ball.
On Jesse lingard, I said at the beginning of season that he deserved his chance, much prefer him to young or nani.

19 Feb 2014 21:54:46
Toni Kroos absolutely magnificent tonight. If we can get him for £40m then we'd be really lucky, but why would Bayern sell him!

Paulo, the problem isn't his price tag. This summer he'd be on the last year of his contract, and anything above 20 mils would be a pretty good business for Bayern.

He's become disillusioned with his status in the club, with his position not guaranteed in the starting 11 ( now that both Martinez and Schweiny are back ) and more importantly his wages. He's nowhere near one of the top earners of Bayern, and even with a wage increase he'd still be paid twice less than the likes of Goetze and Ribbery.

It's certainly understandable, with other top clubs willing to pay him much more than Bayern are offering. I believe his first choice is to stay at Bayern and get a lucrative contract, but that's not very likely to happen now that the supporters are not fully satisfied with the public nature of his announcement. They retain a certain pride in their club's logo and world wide pull, and do not believe they should be threatened by a player ( not unlike our stance with Rooney )

Interestingly someone said somewhere there are 14 players on more than Kroos per week at Bayern, obviously most due to his new contract needing negotiating

19 Feb 2014 21:20:47
Kroos has been imperious. If anyone thinks he's going to play for us next year with no cl, then think again. Fantastic player. Great to watch.

19 Feb 2014 21:01:09
Oh Oh we are going to have Kroos MOTM and fever in a minute LOL. Great goal and did not realise he can hit them with both feet that good.

I think the sending off was BS but we all know how that feels.

19 Feb 2014 09:37:02
Ed002 mentioned Rafael may leave in the summer. What is the problem? Moyes does not rate him or the lad wants away? Very good player and at 23 can only get better. His contract has another 2 years to run in the summer and while he would probably be worth as much as a replacement would cost, unless He's determined to leave, it seems an added issue. We don't need to be looking for marginal areas to improve we have enough glaring deficiencies.

Moyes sees him as unreliable. I couldn't agree more. He has been in the MU team for five years now and has he improved that much? He is still impulsive, still gets caught out of position, still cannot cross a ball. Still hotheaded. I think he will make a decent back-up for both the LB and RB position, but I don't think he's good enough to be a first team player. Defensively he is starting to remind me of Evra. We are very weak at the fullback positions and in midfield and that makes the way Moyes wants to play impossible to achieve.

Would much rather Coleman ( partly because I'm Irish haha )

2 years ago he looked like an awesome prospect, he has stagnated a bit like all the other players that were meant to be world class now or in a year or so - Jones, Smalling, Hernandez, Nani, Anderson, Kagawa, Rooney (gone backwards).

Aside from Ronaldo we really haven't moved too many players onto the next level, then there are the major flops. Macheda, Bebe, Obertan, Bellion, Buttner, Fabio, probably a lot more.


You have to seriously questions our ability to improve players.

Yes Rafael is a hothead but he's doing a good job imo certainly not the liability Evra has become.

Lol so thanks for your replies to my previous question what about the Keane bros and Lingard and Powell?
Hey I'm lazy had to look up those 5's positions 3CM's 1AM and a striker.

Rafael has been poor this season, but has had injuries.
Last season he was brilliant, only maybe zabaleta was better in his position in prem.
I too think we have much bigger problems to address 1st. Cm, lb and cb.
Also Vidic is leaving, rio too, probably evra,
I think we need to keep him for a bit of stability, we don't want too many changes all at once.
Promote a youth player into 1st team squad, or sign a young promising rb as cover would be best imo.

I agree with Sydney in that rafa's decision making at times costs us. He is a good player but I would have expected him to have overcome his rashness by now. I appreciate he started as a winger but think we could get better players defensively that still add the same going forward. That said unless he himself wants to leave I would agree with the comment that he is a good squad player who still can work on his weaker elements and achieve greater things

I can't see rafael going this summer either way, we are already losing evra, rio and vidic. moyes won't get rid of him too, he might bring in someone else in and use rafael as cover but he won't sell him at least till a new guy is settled in.
besides which he is still only 23, and has the potential to be one of the best in the world

dags

Hands off. After last summer when Moyes pursued both Baines and Fellaini with derisory offers for the two of them (before having to shell out top dollar for the wig alone) Seamus Coleman is not for sale. At 26 he has to be one of the best right backs in Europe. His scoring rate this season alone is amongst the best if not THE best of any defender.
So if you think you'll pick him up on the cheap, then think again. The price would start at the £25/30 million mark should Everton consider selling which they are not.

30 million for Coleman. I've heard it all now. You can keep him, Rafael is and will be better than Coleman.

How I do love the everton fans that come on here with all there water tight info on players and such lol! Davey u ain't got a clue wot will happen my old mukka! i'm not suggesting at all that Coleman will leave but to state some of the stuff u do as if its a fact is laughable. Do I remember u mentioning the same about Fellani in the summer?

u will need the money in the summer too lol after all your loan players go back to the OWN clubs u will be left with Naismith as first choice striker lol

19 Feb 2014 17:45:29
coleman isn't united quality, neither is rafael, or any right back for that matter, alves isn't good enough, lahm might be but its a long stretch, nah forget it lahm isn't good enough for MANCHESTER UNITED, hello will, let's see, why is moyes going after coleman to replace rafael then? what doesn't moyes no anything? yep juan mata is crap, januzaj is terrible why play them, moyes is clueless, give over mate, rafael better than coleman? I've heard it all now, next you will be saying cleverley is better than barkley, coleman is faster (ask bale, jarvis, routledge, cole or di maria), he is stronger (ask kolorov and remy), much better going forward, and is a much, well, let's face it rafael has anger issues, he tackles like an 8 year old angry because he was last pick on his team, coleman scores more goals (thats a fact btw), works harder, can go all game and has the first name seamus, you can't beat that, rafael makes me think of some chubby red turtle being taught kung fu by a rat called splinter, coleman is better, stay away from our team, saying that none of our team are united quality, in fact do you want our motto? the way you man utd fans bang on about how players are not united quality i'm sure 'nothing but the best' would suite you lot, considering there is a total of about 6 players who are united quality in world football, despite chelsea on their own have about 7 players that would jump in to your team, really though, coleman, barkley, baines and martinez are ours, go sniff somewhere else for once, can't keep relying on us all the time, rant (is it a rant?) over

Mike-Ox Long

19 Feb 2014 18:06:39
well hi chris, we will need the money, especially after getting 40m for anichebe, jelavic and fellaini, and spending about 19m at most, barry will stay, doofy loofy back for another year, the other two can go, honestly, luakaku can go back to chelsea, we also have kone, mirallas, mcaleny and money to buy another striker, when our loanees go back, whatever, you know?, whatever, tbh only barry has made a big impact and he is practically ours anyway, so again, whatever it really doesn't matter, youse may aswell get lukaku on loan, more realistic than 'my list for the summer:
reus
gundogan
fabregas
vidal
cavani
iniesta
hummels
coentrao
and shaw'-oh yeah i'm sure you will get all them players, not like all of them play for better teams than Man Utd, oh wait they do, love you really chris, still haven't wised (not a word) up since you stopped posting on our site (joke, or is it?) :)

Mike-Ox Long

Haha funny how people's opinions change quite quickly on certain players, I remember last season when he was one of our best players. His goals against QPR and Liverpool did not look like the kind of goals a full back would score. Defensively, he lacks a bit of awareness and composure but he's great going forward and his passion is amazing, something we lack a hell of a lot in our current team.

Jesus Swan.
I think you have some real issues.
Coleman is having a good season. Better than Rafaels last season? I don't think so.
I believe Rafael will become much much better, while i'm not sure Coleman will. He has scored some cracking goals this season, and has been solid, but talk of 30 million is laughable.
And just because it says in a newspaper that Moyes is after him, doesn't mean he is.
I'm not sure what all your strange rant about moyes and other players was about as it doesn't make much sense so I won't even bother trying to come back at that.

What a lot of nonsense. Last year we was excellent. Mike a lot of our players this year he has been average. He is 1 to keep and develop, he has a huge heart and passion and has shown great potential. Some of the comments above are ridiculous

Did I just see someone write Coleman is better than rafel?, ill take what you've been smoking bud.
Rafael is head and shoulders above Coleman, one bad season does not mean he has become cr@p all of a sudden, also, that list you gave, we have more chance of signing them than you lot have of getting a decent striker that hasn't been borrowed for free

And for the others, I think Varela is a cracking player, him, Rafael and Janko should be good for the future, there are other priorities

19 Feb 2014 19:37:56
coleman is 25, rafael is 23, both will only get better, but the thing is, coleman has much more to his game, if he irons out the odd lapse in concentration, he will be the complete full back, rafael, needs to improve on many things, coleman was good last year too, pundits such as your nevilles, your carraghers, your redknapps (i hate him), your savages (thats robbie savage) all mention coleman, last season everyone mentioned zabaleta, well why? if rafael had such a good last season why isn't he getting mentioned? zabaleta, clyne, jenkinson (who has improved) and ivanovic were all mentioned a lot, I never heard a whisper of rafael, even from some of your fans, is he even the best of the the silvas? I seem to remember about 2 years or so ago everyone banging on about fabio, and his twin, er rafael, its all about opinions mate, I think rafael is not that good, I love coleman, most on here think the opposite, thankfully we differ in our opinions, my rant was about, I remember viewing this site when all the links to baines and that were going on, and god knows how many lists I've seen of people expecting youse to buy all these world class players, not wanting them, expecting them, mata, yes that's a good start, but expecting 10 world class players, some of whom are easily in the top ten in the world is just silly, but about seamus and the turtle, we will have to agree to disagree, fair enough, to the poster who put about him having passion, yes mate that's what every club needs, players who live and die by he shirt, we have it in goward, coleman, jags, distin, baines, barry, mccarthy, gibson, pienaar and oviedo, arsenal have it with wilshere, the ox and koscielny, how many have chelsea got? how many do city have? the answer to both? none, there is a difference between paying for the pay, and playing because you love the football club you are playing for, city and chelsea have none of the latter, do united? well don't think many since gary neville, vidic you can't really make an argument against, he would run through a brick wall for youse, in fact, he probably does kit for fun, you can want as many world class players as you want, they probably won't play for the shirt, they are more interested in the pay, that's were teams like us, youse and arsenal and have an advantage, you need class in any club, the fact we have so many (everton) is great, I wouldn't swap them for some big name, yeah he might be a good player, he doesn't love the team though, we won't play for us for anything other than pay or fame, think, if rafael has passion, good on him, there isn't enough of it in this league, its becoming catnip for money grabbing fools like the chelsea and city players, people say the british passion is the best in the world, its what makes this league great, that's all well and good, what would make it greater is if the players share that passion, if rafael does, I take my hat off too him, jeez got cramp now, that was a long point

Mike-Ox Lonf

19 Feb 2014 20:45:01
ouch, sorry did it escape your notice that according to a fellow united fan, 'we need money', if that is true then surely we cannot afford to buy a decent striker, the ones we 'borrowed' were not for free, we paid loan fees, stop smoking out your bong and elaborate, what decent striker have we borrowed? I said lukaku can go back to chelsea, he is a useless donkey, had you read my post instead of rolling up your next bit to smoke you would of realized that, don't think fellaini has been there for a year, your all calling for his head, and moyes', and evras, and welbeck and cleverley (the least talented footballer to ever play at professional level) oh some of you want rooney gone, some saying keep him and get rid of robben van pursie, is the term two faced or hypocritical? think I will stick with the latter thank you

Mike-Ox Long

Swan you sound and write like a 10 year old. Different fans have different opinions. After reading your posts I am still struggling to make out what points you were trying to make. Anyway isn't it past your bed time

Exactly, AJH. Most of our players this season have been below par. As long as the drive and passion are still there, they'll get a bye ball from me anyway.

19 Feb 2014 23:01:27
you know what ten year olds type like? is there that many on this site? or are you doubting it so much yourself that you cannot be bothered? I stated we have different opinions, in fact I was praising rafael and Man Utd, I now know not to, saying that, you probably saw me saying I think coleman is better and didn't bother to read the post then jumped in with that comment of me typing like a 10 year old, that in itself makes me think you are some angry kid, pizza on his lap with a bottle of sprite that's been there for a week looking to call people 10 year olds, you're acting like an 11 year old, does it make you feel grown up? I might go to bed now actually as I have work tomorrow, concentrate hard when you go back to school, year 6 is your last year in primary remember, na night :)

Mike-Ox Long

So Will Red what gives you the right to criticise a fellow Evertonian for having an opinion? To suggest that Mike "sounds and writes like a 10 year old" and that it's "past his bedtime" is both insulting and demeaning. To be honest I would have expected better from a Utd supporter or are you a closet Kopite?
I was the one who raised the initial question regarding Seamus Coleman with Moyes apparently preparing a summer bid. We lived through the whole of the last summer transfer window hearing pathetic offers for our players and my concern is that will all start again with Seamus. On current form (and that means this season) he is without doubt better than Rafael and indeed any other RB in Europe. His valuation should reflect this, hence the £25/30 million price tag.
Where Mike is absolutely correct is that we are sick and tired of your manager continually attempting to unsettle our players. "Everton are holding back their careers" etc etc. So hands off Baines, Jagielka, Coleman, Barkley, Mirralas, et al. This is called poaching; something the FA need to be looking into with your club being the worst culprits.

Davey, no offence, but 25/30 million is what I would have been offering for Lahm a few years ago, and even then it have been begrudged. And Seamus is no Lahm.

I think people are starting to pick silly numbers out of the air, for players who, let's face it, weren't good enough to play further up the pitch, so ended up as full backs.

The boy's had one good season so far, after a few steady ones. If that suddenly makes him worth 30 million, then I'd pass for now, and concentrate on getting a top midfielder in for the same money - players who can actually influence the game.

All I want is my full back to be a steady defensive player, who can get forward if need be, who has good positional skills and can read the game well. I don't expect him to be a goalscoring machine, or the creative cornerstone of our team.

There's a few of them about who'd cost a lot less than 30 million.

You've only recently benefited from another instalment from our, 'Keep Everton afloat' fund, so don't be expecting another contribution any time soon.

Stevie we have no wish to expect any more transfer business with you if all Moyes is going to do bid £4/5 million for Coleman in the hope that it's going to turn his head. We don't do direct transfers with the RS and I'd be happy for that to now apply to Manchester United as well.

And one more thing. How would you feel if Roberto was to come sniffing after Janujaz offering derisory amounts? A question of the pot calling the kettle black methinks.

Davey.
Coleman isn't and never will be the best fullback in europe and isn't worth anywhere near 30 million. let's get real.
Do you know for sure that moyes is bidding 4 million and saying everton is holding back his career or are you just listening to newspaper talk?
We don't want lots of everton players as we don't want to turn into everton. You should be flattered some of your players are getting linked with bigger clubs.
And if someone wants to come on and have a sensible debate about something then fair enough, I take your points even if I don't agree with them but to be honest Swans strange little rantings got the response they deserved, but its sweet you felt the need to stick up for him. A beautiful thing.

Will I'll stick up for any Evertonian at any time or place but it's your condescending attitude that bugs me."You should be flattered that some of your players are being linked with bigger clubs" is in itself insulting. We have no need to sell at present and it is debatable whether Utd are a bigger club anyway. You have little chance of even qualifying for Europe this season let alone winning the trophy. You're out of the FA Cup and were embarrassed by Sunderland in the League Cup semis. The little club Everton beat you at OT and will do the double in April at Goodison.
So look elsewhere for new players in the summer and remember there was 1st Division football before the Premier League and Sky money ruined the game by making the richer clubs richer.

{Ed007's Note - LMFAO @ 'it is debatable whether Utd are a bigger club anyway'

Isn't it too early in the day to be drinking?}

19 Feb 2014 12:49:54
Prior to the Barca match, Pellegrini chose to take a swipe at United by saying that City is now the only team in Manchester. The loss then, was all the more sweet, and a rather fitting Zen slap. The ridiculous and unjustified whining about refereeing decisions merely adds to the satisfaction inherent in their defeat.

19 Feb 2014 11:59:51
Does anyone know if the secret footballer is reliable or just a hoax? He is saying Rooney deal is £350,000 a week and part sponsored by nike

Very doubtful, the secret footballer I heard is 1 of 2 ppl, Danny Murphy or Dave kitson

Thanks for the info. Probably isn't true but if so the way it was written points to nike continuing to be our kit sponsors (I am unaware if a deal has been announced with them)

19 Feb 2014 10:25:57
Good Morning Guys
I have just started reading SAF autobiography and enjoyed the part where he said if a team scored first you could see the fear in their eyes because they new we would batter them.He said that when he tapped his watch it wasn't directed at the ref it was to get into the oppositions heads.We need to get this fear factor back.I remember watching the teams in the tunnel and where other teams would shake each others hands we would stand and show total concentration.Almost saying we are Manchester United and you will need to be bloody good to beat us.
It will take time but we need to get that aura back.

19 Feb 2014 03:45:51
I like many United fans are not happy with the way this season has gone so far. But unlike most, I do think that there is a bit of an over-reaction as well.

First, let's get something straight. Fergie's retirement was always going to be tough. Expectations of being the front-runners for the championship was being too imaginative. This season was always going to be a struggle, no matter who the manager was, in my opinion but having said that I also believe Moyes made it tough for himself as well with the summer transfer window and the change of the backroom staff etc.

Second, I feel whenever a new manager goes into a big club he needs the senior players and/or the leaders to be on his side. Look what happened to Mourinho at Real Madrid towards the end or to AVB at Chelsea. With the Ferdinand interview and the Rooney saga, Moyes had work to do in order to win the locker-room. There have been signs of a better atmosphere in recent weeks.

Third, Moyes' tactics this season have been debatable but we also have to keep in mind that because of players like Valencia and Young, he has been unable to modernize the style of play. The signing of Mata may point to a more modern 4-2-3-1 formation. The likely departures of Evra, Vidic and the deadwood will help Moyes to establish a different style of play next season.

Fourth, Wayne Rooney has been a great servant for Manchester United. Should he stay or be allowed to leave is another debate but what I admire is the fact that Moyes has been able to make him fitter and been able to get more out of him. Has this had an effect on other players?, i.e RvP. That is something that is behind the scenes and more than likely never to reach the fans.

Fifth, the future does look good if you look at the shape the squad is taking at the moment. The signing of Mata and Fellaini (Still to prove himself), the rise of Januzaj, the departure of Fabio and Anderson, likely retirements and sales of other players, that are not upto the mark. These all are signs that Moyes is looking to change the squad and replace them with better players.

Sixth, the likely arrivals that have got us fans excited. The Vidal's and the Reus' of this world. Will we sign world-class players for huge money or not, remains to be seen. But one thing is for certain, Moyes likes to be really sure before signing a player and that can only mean good things because he would have had a whole season to scout players and really make up his mind about who to sign come the summer.

Seventh, We all wanted world-class managers to replace Sir Alex Ferguson, but a decision has been made and we should support the team. Because remember, David Moyes if successful will remain for a long time unlike Mourinho or Pep. He is looking to build a dynasty, just like Sir Alex. And for that to happen we the fans have to patient. Just ask yourself this, Is it better to be successful in the short-term by spending huge money OR build a team to be successful for a longer time? Is it better to be the Chelsea of 04/05 (spent millions) or to be United of 99' (Built a team over a 4-5 year period)?

Lastly, the way our rivals for fourth place, are playing at the moment, it is highly unlikely that we will get 4th place. But could that be a blessing in disguise? I hate to admit it but look at Liverpool. The first season under Rodgers was not all peachy, but this year they have been better and are challenging at the right end of the table. I know a season without Champions League football is not desirable but it may be able to help us.

Whatever happens. History has taught us that United always comes back. We will be back again. Not arrogant, just better.

DB23, your well-written and balanced post deserved a response from either side of the Moyes divide, if only for the effort you made.

For what it's worth, I pretty much agree with everything you've written, but unfortunately posts like this get lost amidst the hysterical, lynch mob posts, and suffer from some people's inability to concentrate for more than a nanosecond.

Db23

I will support the team without question and have done so even during relegation however why do people believe we should just blandly wait for success to come back when it is far far from guaranteed because of the selection of manager? When SAF arrived at OT he had a winners CV, doing incredible things with Aberdeen, also he inherited our club in a poor state but we knew that he knew how to win, so deserved the time given.

SAF's winning experience meant he displayed the knowledge of when and how to take a chance and attack yet Moyes has never known or shown how to get over the line. Observing his teams there seems to be more about not wanting to leave the team exposed to losing. For me that is one difference between decent and top management, fortune favours the brave. Players and especially top players know what brings success they know pretty quickly whether the methods being used will work, have worked before, that belief in the managers skills is vital. The fact it appears two key players in Vidic and RVP are not happy should ring some alarm bells because once players don't believe it means they are not giving their all. It is all very well saying bring new world class players in, take Kroos for example, playing under Pep and then comes to Moyes. Will he believe in the methods that have yet won nothing? He may get a pay rise but he is a real winner and if Vidic RVP don't believe why do we think a Bayern player schooled under Heynckes and Pep will believe in someone with so little relevant experience?
I note your Rodgers comment, done well so far and from the start we could see the direction he wanted, more than could be said for us, yet he has won nothing yet. At the time of his appointment Liverpool were struggling in the league and struggling to appoint and attract a really top manager, a far cry from our position in summer. We should also remember how Liverpool decisively dealt with Hodgson when he had a disastrous start.
You mention about whether a dynasty is better than Chelsea's example, well Chelsea have done very well without sticking with one manager. Stability for stability sake will get us nowhere, a winning stable manager can be good if they don't become stale. For me we went for the stability option without proven ability and that is a very high risk strategy, just giving more time doesn't mean success is guaranteed.

Red Man, I don't see how it is a high-risk strategy.

He gets an 18 month period of rebuilding the team. If he fails, he's out the door, and we're left with hopefully a few good signings, and a good core of young players. Hardly a nightmare scenario.

One season out of the running, does not constitute a crisis, for a club in the financial position we are in, no matter what some of our more emotional posters think. Players will still come, even if we have to pay a bit more (it'll be karma to the Glazers for years of underinvestment in the team).

There will be very little long-term damage, if any, in allowing someone 18 months to rebuild and see if they can take us back to our previous level.

"just giving more time doesn't mean success is guaranteed"

No it doesn't. But I would suggest changing managers every 6 months, generally, does even less to guarantee success.

Nothing is guaranteed in football, that's what makes it such an enjoyable, unpredictable ride.

With all due respect, and I genuinely don't mean any offence by this, you sound like a businessman trying to equate the rules of football with the rules of business, which would maybe explain your frustration.

StevieK

You really seriously don't see how it is a very high risk strategy appointing someone with nowhere near enough experience to do the job? Would you let a surgeon operate on you without having the experience?
Then tell me how many successful businesses would appoint a senior position without the necessary experience or having demonstrated the skills needed at the level the job required?

Take a look at Liverpool post 1990 and see what can happen.

Changing managers has not done Chelsea any harm, however appointing the right manager, the manager with relevant experience in the first place makes all the difference.

If he fails then in 18 months we are suddenly a long way down the pecking order and let's hope the players he has spent all our money on work out.

Every further day with him at the helm is a continuing major risk.

You see, Red Man, comparing managing a football club to performing surgery, is the sort of over the top analogy, that has people getting their knickers in a twist.

It's really not the same thing, when you consider the potential of failure in both areas.