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30 Mar 2014 23:08:50
Betty I was referring to robben looking at medusa himself. I didn't quite put my sentence together brilliantly. I hang my head in shame.
And so you should! Been doing too many backspins mate lol.
Yes, well it was the weekend haha.
30 Mar 2014 21:54:59
Everyone has written us off already for the Bayern game, even the German players their selves!
Not it's the time the players put out a magnificent performance, work as a team and play their hearts out to win this match.
I think we should go full on defensive and catch them on the counter, boring yes but also effective (Moyes' kind of tactics). If we try to play a attacking team we will be ripped to shreds by Ribery, Kroos and co.
This in a way is a good game for Moyes because he is used to playing against stronger sides and his Everton teams did manage to get some wins out of it. So his tactics will actually come to use this game.
I hope for another 99 type finish the matches.
The same tactics were used away to Olympiakos. The rest is history =)
Weggy, u say Moyes is used to playing against stronger teams! But out of the 9 outings against the teams above us, we've managed 4points out of 36. Not a great record.
I think we should go out and try to impose ourselves and play with pride, not defensive full of fear.
We can only win if we believe!
NM,
Arsenal 1-0
Arsenal 0-0
Chelsea 0-0
These exciting matches actually got 5 points, let's give moyes some credit at least ;)
NM,
I agree with going all out, but it's Bayern Munich and with our current form I just see us getting ripped to shreds if we try to, either way I am hoping for a good game.
We don't have the players to play on the counter - not enough pace in the side.
Nomid
"I think we should go out and try to impose ourselves and play with pride, not defensive full of fear."
It has novice ring to it, but can you explain team selection formation and how we do that.
The best way to play them is we have to be very compact and stop them from playing. They are the best club side in world football and no shame in playing an extremely boring game to get some sort of result to make the return leg worthwhile.
I just hope we do not make stupid individual defensive errors early and concede as we might be in for a hiding if we go behind and have to throw people forward as our defines will get found out.
GCU,
Every time we have attempted to stay compact and defend against a top team this season we have been spanked. Bayern are the best team in the world and will have no problem breaking us down if we sit back. If City and Liverpool can do it at Old Trafford, Bayern will have no problem.
If we go out and attack them, however, they will have far more space to counter and are bound to out score us.
I honestly don't see any way that we can win, unless Bayern have an absolute stinker. So the only question is how does Moyes want to lose? Does he want to sit back and let them hammer us to submission? Or does he want to go out swinging?
I know which way I'd prefer.
Valencia and wellbeck on the wings. There both pacey for the counter and both track back well. Kagawa has to start and rooney dropping Into a middle 3 and putting Hernandez on for Kagawa for the last 15mins IMO could be effective. I'd be tempted to start Evans as playing rio or vidic is just going to drop us to deep. I also wouldn't be suprised if nani started I seem to remember he just came back from injury last year and had a decent game against Madrid. I'd take a boring 0-0 now
And finally I agree with one of Danny's posts :-)
You know what they say about stop clocks Brendan, well that goes for curmudgeonly keyboard warriors like me too.
Ha ha, very true Danny :-)
Danny
Why do you associate being compact with being defensive. There is not problem with being compact, the issue is the whole thing goes out the window when you concede stupid goals early.
I agree with quite a few posters that we will see welbeck and valencia start who will provide cover for the backs. The only question is who starts in the no 10 spot and I am inclined to think it will be mata and we will go with Giggs and Fellaini in midfield.
Going out swinging is an interesting concept and easier said than done. Would you be happy if we get hammered 5-1 being all gong ho or keeping it semi boring and be still in the tie.
Funny thing we need Giggs to be in inspired form again :)
GCU
Is Mata not cup tied?
GCU, everytime Moyes has stated we tried to stay "compact" it has been code for 'sit deep and defend'. I don't think our brand of compact is anything like Barca's compact play. So yeah if we do opt for a "compact" formation, then I think that means defending deep and trying to nick a goal on the break.
I also think that we have a much bigger chance of getting a hiding if we try to contain Bayern. Every game in which we've been soundly beaten this season we have started by trying to contain our opponents, dropped deep, allowed them to take control of the game, and then when they inevitably score, we find it really difficult to get any foothold in the game.
I think we will lose either way. But the simple fact is that our attack is much better than our defence, and if we play to our strengths we might at least have some chance of inflicting damage. If we try to play a compact containing game we will be beaten and be impotent in attack.
GCU
I am more in agreement with you on this about tomorrow. We need to stay compact and try to use Valencia Kagawa and Rooney on the break. Bayern can play different styles and Pep is canny but generally they rely upon width from Ribery and particularly Robben. I would play Young sitting deeper when we don't have the ball and he should be on the left rather than Welbeck because I feel Buttner is going to need help. Robben cuts in and if we can close that space inside of Buttner we may frustrate him and Young may be better than Welbeck defensively against Robben. Valencia should be important because they tend to push their fullbacks forward and we need to have some pace to use that space.
The key tomorrow is not to concede, nil nil is a decent score in these games. If we press then we could easily get picked off and they are lethal on the break. I wouldn't discount being more direct to Fellaini as a plan B as he used to do at Everton. Fellaini will need to keep his elbows in check.
A year ago we were one nil up against a brilliant Madrid team with Ronaldo until the sending off so it shows what can be achieved, if we get the tactics right. A one nil win is possible even though unlikely, we achieved that against Messi and Barca a few years ago but we need to be compact and get a break.
Red Man
You are right mata is cup tied. I guess kagawa in the hole but I have feeling we will see rooney in there and as you said maybe young and valencia on the wings with welbeck playing as lone striker.
Bayern although play ball possession game like Barca but they have so much more bite with robbery and Robben and Goetze. If we can somehow neutralise them we have a very good chance.
I think the back four is the biggest issue but maybe we will get a an inspired performance out of Buttner and whoever is playing right back.
Love the buzz of CL and shame we will not have his next year.
Danny
Lets just hope for a good performance, I think the players will be up for it and OT will be buzzing. We sure can pick them Real last year and Bayern this year :)
Gcu, I said we should try to go out and impose ourselves. I didn't say we should go and play kamikaze football. So stop putting words in my mouth.
I am in agreement with dannyP on this. We can't just sit back and invite them to attack us, because they will. I think our only change is to try and fight them, and impose ourselves over them. If we let them dictate the tempo, then they will win easily. If we can get at them and get the crowd behind us, then we have a chance.
My preferred choice will be to play, carrick, fletcher (or fellaini), giggs (or januzaj), kagawa, welbeck, Rooney up top. I think that will give us a good balance and will give us some support on the wings when we don't have the ball.
On thing we agree about, is we wish United all the best, I'm not one who think we're going to get thrashed, I think it will be tight.
30 Mar 2014 19:36:00
Interesting debate on Rooney and where to play him, for me l'd play him in a midfield 3, with 2 defensive midfielders. Up top mata & kagawa and rvp. What do think?
{Ed004's Note - I'd have sold him last season}
He's not a midfielder, nor does he want to play there. When he has played there, he gives the ball away far too often. We need to play players in their best positions instead of buying them and not know what to do with then. And I'm with Ed004, I'd have sold him
Rooney is not a good midfielder, whilst he is great at hitting 40 yard cross field passes he is not great when it comes to playing in a crowded area as his touch and the short passing let's him down.
Have to agree with Ed, not worth the wages being spent. Not better than RVP as an out and out striker, and doesn't have as a good of a footballing brain as Mata/Kagawa/Januzaj to play in the hole. It's a conundrum, a very expensive one, he should of been sold, causes more problems than solves.
I think Rooney is in his best position at the moment, up front without RVP and with fluid attackers around him. However he is not the best at it and there will be others with more pace and power. He also seems to score in batches which is difficult for a lone striker you rely on.
SAF aimed to move him on and yet we have now gone in a different direction making him the focus of our attack with a massive new contract, I can't see him playing in midfield on that basis.
I agree with AJH and GCU. Rooney is better off doing what he does best. Up front and scoring goals. In my opinion, Moyes has spent too much time and effort trying to keep Rooney happy. I still think United are a better team with Rooney than without him, but not if it is detrimental to other players and the team. Accomodating Rooney behind RVP has meant others being shifted out of position. I would keep Mata central behind the front man /men where he is best. If Rooney and RVP can't play together up front then Moyes has a decision to make. But he should make the decision for the team, not to keep individuals happy.
I don't think we need to have a debate on where to use rooney, anyone with half a football brain knows he's a striker and putting him in midfield is just going to take away his main attributes. I think too many people are fooled by the scholes like cross field pass he over does, it looks lovely but it dosent actually make him scholes, he had far more than that in his locker as we all no.
Well people may know my feelings on Rooney, but as Moyes has spent so much time/money to keep him here, it seems he is here for the foreseeable future. Therefore, the only positions he should be played in, for me, are either as a main striker with Mata/Kagawa behind as a number 10, or on the right hand side of a front 3 behind a main striker like RVP, with Mata/Kagawa as a number 10 and Januzaj/Reus on the left. I would have sold him though.
Main striker in front of a three or on the left of a front three with mata or kagawa making play behind.
For the medium term it has to be Rooney over RVP simply because neither can be a squad player, and both of them are better playing up top. Rooney is now the 4th highest scorer in the premier league and since there have been seasons when he's been played out of position, and also with fellow team mates like Ronaldo, this is a great record. Plus Rooney is younger.
Rooney's issues revolve around our abject failure to attract any top class midfielders or wingers in the last 8 years, and, yes, maybe he's paid too much, but he's most likely going to end up as United's all time record goal scorer and that deserves some respect.
If we sort out the core issues - poor defence, slow and uncreative midfield and wingers that can't cross the ball we would be fine with Rooney and Chicharito. Although, yes I accept it could be RVP too, except that he is just too injury prone. However also in Rooney's favour is that he is more adaptable.
I still believe we can play a 4231 formation with Rvp up top with 3 of Rooney, Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj behind him.
Rooney does not play as a number 10 in most games as he drifts all over the park. He is always hungry to get involved so he assists the defence at times and drifts out wide if needed.
People are so obsessed with players taking up a position and sticking to that position the entire game. I would like to see Mata/Kagawa/Januzaj all interchanging where space is available whether it be behind the striker or cutting in from a bit wider.
This would also be very difficult for other teams to defend against and allow these players the freedom to drift around creating opportunities from whatever space they find themselves in.
Guys! don't all of u think that maybe we should stop criticizing one of our best players and think about other position . I mean we have lots of deadwood and very few world class players and wazza is the reason we are not below 7th position(shamefully)
A world class midfield 2 in the summer along with exciting winger and I do believe Wayne will be able to grab 25 goals even from the hole
Sresthe, I don't think this is a thread criticising Rooney. Its just people opinions on where Rooney should play.He is best used as a striker so should stay there in my opinion. We have a recent history of playing players out of position. Now that we have Mata, there is no reason to play Rooney as a no.10.
30 Mar 2014 19:00:12
Predictions for Tuesday night boys?
Inverness C.T 3 - 1 Motherwell
{Ed002's Note - Morton 3-2 Dumbarton}
I predict that Buttner will be sent off after winning the ball from robben but following through slightly on robbens ankle. Robben rolls over 6 times taking out advertising boards along the way with hands on face screaming as if he'd just glanced at medusa himself. Muller pops up to slot home against 10 men giving bayern a 1-0 win.
We will then have a few weeks of ze Germans gloating on how English football has returned to ze eighties in terms of style and tactics.
I think we will lose, but not by the landslide some are expecting. I'd go 0-2 to Bayern.
Nice one, I am glad some have not lost their sense of humour.
Ed002 who do you think will win the league.
Unfortunately you will give the Germans that impression with Moyes's tactics, don't worry though Liverpool will be there next year to sort out England's UEFA rating.
Supasub, that post lost all credibility when you said "Medusa himself". Ridiculous comment!
Medusa was a woman! Get your facts right man lol :)
1-0 to United, I think we will park the bus and play on the counter attack, just like Chelsea did in the final a few years back.
Good one Betty and Ed!
2-0 Utd, Giggs double (or Rooney pen). We are more suited to Europe at the minute and the Deutsch have found their domestic league far too easy. We will capitalise on their over confidence.
Man utd 1-3 bayern munich.
Plymouth red English teams ratings are good in Europe due to uniteds performances over recent times. All Liverpool are good for is getting us banned.
Also, when Medusa looks at you you freeze, you don't scream. Glad me and Betty can clear the important stuff up.
Given the choice I'd look at Medusa before Ribery.
Getting to the bottom of this, if you look at Medusa you turn to stone ;)
30 Mar 2014 17:11:04
Any1 here seen William Carvalho regularly?
Is he worth 37million that would be required to buy him?
I know he's been our best player this year but I still think Rooney hampers out potential style of football. I still don't know what his best position is. He is not a no 10 as he is not creative enough. He is not a striker as he is not desiplined enough to stay in the striker position. I know he is enthusiastic and runs about a lot but what does he actually do. When people describe him as world class I can't see it myself.
RVP I think is world class.
I would like to see mata and kagawa playing behind RVP .with 2 cm box to box players behind. Play with two wing backs and 3cb.
What do others think of this
Ive seen him play quite a few times this year and I think he'd be a brilliant signing, there's nothing flashy about him, he won't get u off your seat with a raking pass across the field or a sublime piece of vision or anything but he's not in there for that, he's a defensive midfielder who breaks up the play, got good positioning sence, really stong and powerfull, there won't be no yaya toures coming to old trafford and making him look lyk a little boy that's for sure. when u pay 27 mil for big fellaini then I think 37 mil looks a bargain for this fella, hehe
I think it matters not. Rooney wants to play as a number 10. Moyes is poised to make him captain and it looks likely that any future Moyes team will be built around Rooney.
Our interest in Carvalho indicates that the plan is to play two physically strong cms in front of the defence and play an attacking trio of Rooney, Mata and one other behind the main striker. I would like to think that this could be a fluid attacking three, but I have seen zero evidence of that this season, except when Rooney has played as the sole striker.
{Ed002's Note - That'll be two windows, possibly three to get right. This is where folks need to understand that it goes beyond a first eleven and that fantasy football never really comes true. I suspect we will all be here in nine years time and you will be denying that Moyes was not the man for the job.}
I hope we don't end up selling Powell on and regretting it later. Get him back and give him a chance as well. Still looks a good player and scored 12 for Wigan this season so far. Not sure we will talking about moyes in 9 years time if we are we could be playing FC.
I'm looking at what Moyes has done since he arrived, and that is: (1) play Rooney in a free role behind RVP, whenever both are fit, (2) pay £27.5m for Fellaini, a strong physical cm, (3) bring in Mata for a club record fee and play him on the right to accommodate Rooney, and (4) target Carvalho, a strong physical cm.
I don't see why Moyes would splash out over £50m for two midfielders, our longstanding problem area, unless they were central to the way he wants to set the team up. Neither do I see why Moyes would fight so hard to keep Rooney at the club and offer him the biggest contract in the club's history unless he was pivotal to the way he wants to set the team up.
I think in 9 years time, the Moyes era will be a footnote in the club's history that most people will want to forget about.
There's more chance of me flying to the moon than Moyes being here in 9 years. If so, we'll be in Conference!
Moyes hasn't got 9 months IMO
Halesini wonder how many times people said something like that about Fergie in the first 4 years
Pardoe
Not much because SAFs CV was an excellent winning one from his Aberdeen days and we knew there was a major need for change. This is totally different and the present incumbent has rather less on his CV
Ed02, when you say three windows, do you include winter windows too? I know this may be the kind of question that stokes your wrath, but it seems very little happens in winter windows.
{Ed002's Note - Of course I include Winter windows. Manchester United purchased Juan Mata this last window.}
"I suspect we will all be here in nine years time and you will be denying that Moyes was not the man for the job"
If that ever happens he would have to win quite a few things. Off course people here would then claim that he has learnt from his wrongs and they we were all instrumental in making him a better manager.
As the saying going success has many fathers and failures and orphans in this world.
It is suppose to say
"failure are orphans"
30 Mar 2014 16:12:19
Wel just wonderin on reports in the paper today that shaw is going to united instead of chelsea in the summer. Any news on this
30 Mar 2014 17:47:58
don't think he's worth the money that's been talked about.
Will go on to be the best left back in the world in my opinion, he'd be worth every penny what ever the price is, he's young, can defend well, really quick, good going forward and whips in a brilliant ball, can't ask for much more really!
30 Mar 2014 14:02:15
Good performance and an excellent result. Benteke missed two easy chances at 2-1, but thankfully he missed them. We've got to go on and try to win as many as we can and see where we end up.
Chicarrito looked very unhappy when he scored. I like him and I think his attitude is fantastic. Let's hope Moyes has not allianated him. Where can we go to find such a finisher. In the right system, he's lethal.
One last point, as I said some time ago, I would love to see lingard, Wilson, perrera, enkangeme been given a chance as sub's from now till the end of season. What have we got to lose?
I doubt DM will try to hold on to Hernandez. I have the same view regarding youngsters. However since Moyes is under so much pressure, I doubt he will do that.
Agree on the youngsters PR. shame as Liverpool seem to have done OK with theirs, and we have some really talented ones.
30 Mar 2014 13:32:12
Have we made an agreement of some sort with southampton for Luke Shaw? Obviously its not a done deal but has there been any developments. Ed's or anyone got any news on this. Thanks in advance
{Ed002's Note - RTP.}
30 Mar 2014 13:25:00
I don't see the lad getting near the united 1st team, but I've got to say Bebe has been scoring some belters. Anyone get to see his recent free kick? as well as that outrageous back heel?
Always nice to see our loaned players doing well
And can he be as bad as young, nani or Valencia? Possibly!
30 Mar 2014 11:39:32
Regarding Bayern, Peps sides normally try and win games in the away leg in the CL. They look to win games and get at least a couple of goals. A 0-0 or a 1-1 would still be a good result for us for the return leg. The main thing I worry about against either Spanish or German sides is finishing a game with 11 men. Robben, muller, Martinez etc will be putting in the extra rolling around training as we speak.
I agree about the last bit Supasub. I feel we should be starting Jones at RB (pretty sure Rafael is injured after yesterday anyway), he's a little better at the tackling side of things. I would worry about Buttner up against Robben, he can be a little rash and his reactions (as we saw yesterday) to decision can be detrimental. Robben will lap that up for 90 minutes. Young needs to start on the left I feel to add an extra bit of defensive cover.
This will be one hell of a tough match against a side who are always in good form. We need a solid start, something we haven't seen really this season. If I was Moyes i'd hit them hard in the first 15 and really push for an early breakthrough, I think we will certainly score but we need to do it first IMO.
30 Mar 2014 10:34:50
The Bayern Munich game could tell us a lot about the direction that we need to go in terms of RVP. Rooney is doing well up front and the quality of football is better with Mata behind and Kagawa left and someone with pace on the right. With RVP our attacking play is slower and more methodical. It will be interesting to see whether we would we better off with Mata off RVP, Kagawa left and someone like Reus right instead of bringing RVP back into the team.
I think that is a little harsh on RVP. IMO you could take Rooney out of yesterday's team, put RVP in and it would work just as well. For me, the issue so far this season is that Rooney just isn't creative enough to play in the role behind the striker these days. He works hard but his choice of pass is far too predictable and more often than not he looks to spread it wide where as Mata can see different angles. Basically what I'm saying is that the issue isn't RVP or Rooney specifically, it's the both of them when played together; it just doesn't work very well.
TK-Red I agree with you. RVP up front on his own would work equally as well. The main issue problem would be if/would you bench one and play one and swap them around as when required or per game? This would lead one or both players becoming un happy. Kagawa mata and janujaz would be a great midfield three. But we would need two quality players behind them a top lb and another CB and definately another top player like Reus and then sell the deadwood and promote some youth players like Powell lingard Keane etc.
Mad Hatter, I agree entirely and those are exactly the areas we should be looking to bring people in. As for the Rooney/RVP debate I think it will be a case of RVP being sold. I cannot see either being happy with a squad role and as much as I rate RVP, David Moyes has quite clearly pinned his flag to the Rooney mast by handing him a new contract and talking about him as the next captain.
Fresh, it's just a coincidence. After the Olympiakos result, the players were always going to be a little more upbeat. I'm gutted that we were robbed of RvP, just as he was starting to get to 100%.
30 Mar 2014 10:14:59
Ed, have you heard anything regarding manchester utd & glasgow rangers setting up a bond where rangers will get some of our good youth players who are not ready for our senior team which will gain the young players good experience with their loan moves to rangers, I know that our manager & rangers manager ally mccoist are very friendly and have been talking about this for several months now, I've also heard that walter smith was instrumental in helping set this up as he has a lot of friends within old trafford, has anyone else heard this?
{Ed002's Note - I know nothing of it.}
30 Mar 2014 05:09:57
Well! There are not lot of things to cheer about but beside our victory against villa, we now seem to finally learn how to beat teams below us with comfort. Moyes has finally learned the way we should play against team below us. With our form even teams like villa, west ham, Cardiff should have given us tough times but we are winning with ease. Now he just needs to find the way to beat all the top teams who sadly ripped us this season. Next season with couple of world class signings may be?
The way to beat the teams above us is to play the same way as we do against the teams below us. Going out against the better teams negatively will only bring negative results. You can how much better Mata looks being played in his best position, positive tactics will bring victory.
30 Mar 2014 04:05:14
Hi guys, reading reports that United have successfully negotiated a deal for Luke Shaw. This would be the third 'done deal' completed so far according to reports, the other two being Carvalho and Garay. Do any of the eds know anything about these apparent deals?
{Ed002's Note - There are no "done deals". I explained the situation with Carvalho.}