Manchester United Banter Archive July 14 2013

14 Jul 2013 23:15:35
Surely Keisuke Honda has to be looked at? Going to be a free agent soon and he won't command a wage any higher than what we would have paid Thiago. Great at set pieces and can play anywhere in midfield, anyone who has watched him quite a few times will know he is a clever footballer. He scored twice in CSKA's cup final win over Zenit the other day. AC Milan looks like the club most interested at the moment. Thoughts guys?

Ozwald

I agree. Honda and Kagawa partnership would be deadly. Their link up play is class. Surrounded by quality players they would do well

MWRedArmy

Keisuke can defend quite well too, could play him deeper in midfield with Kagawa in front. He was class again for Japan in the confederations cup, him and Kagawa absolutely dominated Italy, who have lots of solid midfielders.

It would be really good business, he's easily better, more creative and more dynamic than Anderson + Cleverley. I'd love us to sign him!

Ozwald

14 Jul 2013 22:40:08
In a terrible mood, Bayern have officially announced the signing of Thiago Alcantara. Honestly thought he was going to be a great signing for us. Realistically speaking who else can we sign now instead? Thoughts?

Ozwald

Marchisio?

Oliver Torres, modric, gundogan?

Marchisio isn't nearly as good. There are maybe 8 elite cms in the world and it seems like 7 play for barca and bayern.

14 Jul 2013 22:33:26
Remember this
Missed out on Ronaldinho signed Ronaldo
Missed out on shearer signed Ole Solskjaer
Missed out on Hazard signed Van Persie
Missed out on thiago signed? We shall wait and see but history seems to suggest it will be a gem!

Missed out on Hazard, and signed Kagawa.

Missing out on Hazard had no influence on the signing of RvP!

Ozwald

Kagawa was signed before we missed out on hazard wasn't he? Might be wrong just thought kagawa was bought quite early in the summer.

GDS he was bought before hazard's transfer!

But that was when Fergie was in charge.

14 Jul 2013 22:08:08
Thiago alcantara has join Bayern for 21m. I don't think he is worth that much. We could sign fabregas for 4 million more. Thiago was still an acceptional talent that we missed out on though. Eds who do u think we can sign this summers? Sorry if this has already been asked a million times.

Dublin

Thats ok Eds don't answer on this forum in the most part

Hopefully Ronaldo will replace him we can always dream

Fabregas is only available at that price to Arsenal. Anyone else would have to pay whatever Barca think he is worth

Apparently we have unlimited funds to spend so the cost is irrelevant

Beyond price, the sale of Thiago makes Cesc completely untouchable. Barca's directors would be drawn and quartered if they let both of them leave. Shame bc he'd be the best signing for what we need.

14 Jul 2013 21:35:01
Gotta be a big name player coming in and has been worked on for a while, I'm still sticking with Gareth Bale he got united written all over him. Either that or woodwards comments are to keep the Glazer haters quiet for a little longer after Thiagogate.

Moyes saying thiago isn't a target is a bit like kids in a play ground its realy a big slap in the face we are supposed to of activated fellainis clause for moore money whos he trying to kid but still look on the bright side we have young anderson wellbeck and bebe all world beaters I was brought up when united came second or third to the scousers and we were moore ore les a cup side i'm getting ready for the same again but it won't be the scousers now most of the good players have gone or staying at there own clubs carnt wait for the no value speech now the season tickets are sold out but stil we played football then with flair with this squad we will be lucky to get in the top five heres hoping i'm wrong a red united fan

14 Jul 2013 21:49:22
Any truth in that United have triggered Fellaini's buyout clause? Cheers

I hope not!

Alex Fergusons Condom

I hope so as think he is a solid premiership player and will give the likes of Kagawa licence to dictate attacking play. I think if we got fellaini we would still need a modric type player to rotate with kags though. I also firmly believe big Willy zaha will get a lot of game time which he will earn through performance. Nice to note the depressive tone is easing on the site and thanks to brendan81 for saving me responding to some of the comments on here, more or less took the words out of my mouth mate. Bookedredmole

14 Jul 2013 21:36:51
Thiago was never a target for Moyes. He
plays in a certain position which will shortly
be filled by CR7 so cheer up its all about
to get really interesting. Think about it who
would you really want. people keep saying
its a pipe dream but there is no smoke
without fire and it is going to happen aug
6th 2013.

BFRO

No he doesn't do you watch football

Why August 6th?

Thiago does not play the same position as Ronaldo. Totally different players

14 Jul 2013 21:35:55
So sly say Thiago has signed for 21.6m and they agree a match as part of it? I still think we have Strootman and Baines tied up, but also think a big deal is on the cards? I still think it might be Ronaldo, but maybe it will be the massive signing of Messi? Wait and see?

14 Jul 2013 21:26:48
well that's the TA rubbish put to bed, even when the boss says he has no interest in the boy, u guys still talked about him signing.

so whos next then, I will start the ball rolling

Mats Hummels maybe,
or Mesut Ozil,
how about Stephan El Shaarawy?

None of which are central mid fielders so I hope not

14 Jul 2013 20:51:31
so utd are ready to run down rooneys contract, I think that's the best option, I still don't understand why rooney would want to ruin his eight year legacy at utd by joining our rivals, I actually feel sad because him and vidic have been my two favourite players for the last couple of years. honestly I would still love him if he stayed but with the way he has been acting lately it woulnt suprise me if he joins chelsea and kiss their badge when he scores against us

If we get the next two years of his contract we'll have enjoyed the best years of his career. I can't see him playing on into his late 30's at the top level.

Only problem is his attitude. Moyes won't keep him around if he'll be an unsettling influence. I would not like to see him lining up against us for at least a couple more years though!

14 Jul 2013 20:36:25
Thiago has been signed for 25million euros.

The release clause was somewhere around 18m euros.

Looks like the tax issue may have proved decisive then in the end. The tax increased the transfer fee about 30%. I really hope that this wasnt the reason we missed out on the player. i'd be much happier thinking that thiago just wanted to play for gaurdiola. That may actually be the case of course, but I can't help being suspicious with the way our transfer business is being done.

Looks as though we've tightened the belt with the strootman deal aswell.

We are already in the secondary market here for players, its hard to believe we are failing so badly.

i get the feeling the board will sign someone if they think they are marketable.

Van persie was a household name, and kagawa helped brake into a new market. let's stop messing around, and get on with it then. Fellaini or gundogen.

14 Jul 2013 20:28:04
" there is no value in the market" ( from last 5 seasons )
" And I m happy with current squad, it doesn't need much improvement"

SAF / MOYES.

14 Jul 2013 20:18:04
As much as I wanted thiago my preference has always been ilkay gundogan and really hope moyes goes all out for him

Discountdave

I highly doubt Dortmund will sell Gundogan and if they did it will be probably be outrageous.

14 Jul 2013 20:16:25
thats it thiago on the way to bayern another target gone yet again there is not much left in a scholes mould but I got a feeling we are going to sign either bale or ronnie

14 Jul 2013 20:02:33
Thiago to Bayern confirmed, at least we can put this to bed now, i'm not as gutted as I thought I would be, something seems to be going on behind the scenes and its good to hear moyes say were short in midfield so let's wait and see what happens.

phil

14 Jul 2013 19:51:29
Now thiago is confirmed as going to Bayern, what does everyone think is going on regards our transfer targets?

14 Jul 2013 19:49:08
So thiago signed for bayern, bit disappointed but that's life anyone any idea who wer after other than fellaini? Our midfield needs a couple of recruitments as we all know so anyone with any info?
Dr

Well days ago I saw we were after Ronny and Moyes interview said we can afford both who knows but would love Ronny back more than anyone else

Could almost forgive our utterly s**** midfield then

14 Jul 2013 19:39:49
Corby86, you are wrong mate BM agreed fee with Barcelona and he is off to BM.

A

14 Jul 2013 19:34:21
Barca and Bayern agree a fee of 25 mill euros for Thiago. another one bites the dust. can't see him getting much game time there

treble 1999

14 Jul 2013 18:41:50
Balague saying, Thiago will join Bayern and that United were willing to pay the buyout clause. However Moyes wasn't sure if Thiago would succeed in EPL. I don't know what to believe

SAF obviously didn't tell him about the goal he scored against us a few years ago, in his handover
AJ

Balague is a joke and knows nothing about Uniteds business I suggest you listen to facts and not the crap that flows from his mouth
ARB

14 Jul 2013 18:37:17
If Thagio wants first team football and barca don't want to sell why don't they loan him to say atletico or Valencia, he stays in spain, barca keep there man, and Thagio gets regular football then would return in there in a couple years when xavi retires? I'm not saying I want this to happen I'd love him at united I just don't understand why barca don't loan him?

14 Jul 2013 18:34:15
How dare anyone have an opinion in the positive sense when boarshawred is about, dnt u all know? Its all doom and gloom, hell I don't even know why I like football at all!
CTR

14 Jul 2013 16:15:58
Anyone know if we have any interest in Vidal? If not Vidal marchisio would be perfect! Cheaper and would suit us perfectly, also if juventus are still interested in Nani we should offer him as part of the deal, but I'd like Nani to have a chance until January because when he's on form he's one of the best wingers about bad maybe under a new manager he can rediscover his form?

14 Jul 2013 16:00:02
Posting from South Africa, Supersport united 2-0 Man city, and this was a squad missing only Aguero, Silva, Zabaleta and Navas

Although you may not care, I just thought I should post it regardless

TheInfamousNoName

Dreadful, Pellegrini was a poor appointment, they should sack him, it's a disgrace etc etc etc

14 Jul 2013 14:34:17
The best thing about having a new manager coming in is that the sentiment that SAF had isn't there and that he can see without bias what areas need to be strengthened.

Yeah, good point. Moyes will make his own views of certain players. Underachievers beware!
Nomidfield

14 Jul 2013 14:17:50
Manchester United fans hoping to see their club sign Thiago Alcantara from Barcelona might be encouraged by the news that Matthias Sammer is playing down reports that a deal to take the Spain Under-21 star to Bayern Munich is done and dusted.

14 Jul 2013 12:43:54
Interesting to see Moyes latest comments on Rooney. I don't think Wayne will enjoy reading them at all. Moyes too doesn't seem certain that he will be staying given that he said things like 'we need to see how we work together'. This is going to be a very drawn out and very boring transfer saga.

You would assume Wayne is well aware of this, I doubt he woke up to this news

14 Jul 2013 12:42:19
Morning all, just reading DM saying we need midfielders & that he can spend as much as he likes. let's hope this is true & that we get the class that we desperately need in the middle of the park. So without being silly who would you buy that is currently available? MIDDLETON RED

14 Jul 2013 12:10:59
Nice to see David Moyes come out and say 'were short in midfield' suggesting he will add to strengthen that area and I think he's saying all the right things about youth, budget and not revealing targets. I agree with ed007 I think it was who say Moyes is the perfect fit for United and I can't understand why after 1 pre season match 14 days into the transfer window a lot of people seem to be extremely negative about DM already. We all SUPPORT the sake team so stop bickering with each other and in the words of Sir Alex support your manager! and the team, have done faith an judge at the end of the season!

Welsh Red

14 Jul 2013 11:50:25
Just watching the 6-1 demolition of Arsenal from a few years back. Our midfield consisted of Keane, Scholes, Butt, Beckham. Up front, we had Yorke, OGS and then Sheringham. And of course cole and giggs did not even feature in that match.
How does that compare with Anderson, Carrick, Cleverley and Kagawa? And how does a young Giggs compare to our current wingers? The front four are marginally better than the ones we have at present. But the midfield and wing areas are worlds apart.
I think, this is where Mr. Moyes should be putting all his efforts. When we do buy, we have to buy world class to get our team back to where it belongs and so we can challenge especially in the CL.
Nomidfield

Im sure we won 7-2 against them at ot 2 years ago.

So pretty pointless post

SPB

14 Jul 2013 14:28:49
I just watched City and Athletico batter you from not long ago by a very similar score line. That's pretty much where you are.

Just watched arsenal winning the premiership at old trafford.

8-2, just saying

Thanks for your comment spb it was actually 8-2 two years ago.
Point I was making, is that it shows how short our midfield is in comparison to a few years back and the need to strengthen with top proven talent in that area.
Thank you for your patience!
Nomidfield

Did you even watch it

Ross

The team that destroyed Arsenal 6-1 also had some fairly weak players in it. And in all fairness the Arsenal team was a developing team which achieved quite a lot a few years after. So your judgement in history is based around one game? Respect where it's due not on one game. While we're here if wenger had city's money he'd be very dangerous. He's still a douche bag though. But we as UNITED should respect all teams.
Apart from Shii Tie. Red Scousers, Russki, Baa baas from Yorkshire. Anyone else from Yorkshire, The Turkish clubs, and that ref from the CL last 16 against RM. Oh and also The first person/team that you can think
of. Including Me!
SHANDY

14 Jul 2013 13:20:13
All rumours and conjecture at monent as man united fans we should know by now never to listen to newspaper rumours because they hacks will make up any old crap to flog papers. personally I don't believe anything until the player is wearing the club shirt

14 Jul 2013 13:11:18
Hey all,
Certainly has been a while since I last posted, it's all gone a bit quiet hasn't it.
I have a feeling we might be going in for Bale though, it is nothing more than a feeling but he really would suit us down the ground and the impression being given is that we are targeting the best players. I can see a bid going in for him of about £50 million.
Does anyone else have a guy feeling regarding transfers?
Paul

14 Jul 2013 11:11:42
Sunday Times has article on United this morning. The new CEO says we have unlimited funds and that we are finally (8 years late) after two midfielders. But (I. M. O) as the Thiago fiasco shows, top players are going to be hesitant to join us with a new unproven manager.
Also, we are keeping Evra, if we sign Baines? But. we are not going to increase our £12 million bid. So now, we are publicly tight and stupid?

Can someone please give me the source of Thiago apparent reluctance to join please. As I still feel we are very likely to sign him, he is after first team football. No matter what Pep says, he can't offer being Scholes direct replacement. I feel he shot himself in the foot when suggesting he could play in 5 different positions. Thiago would surely want stability, not tinkering all over the place.

14 Jul 2013 13:59:08
Twelve million is a fair offer, there's plenty on here that's complained any more would be too much. Also coming out with talk of an unlimited budget and world class signings has put pressure on for such signings to be delivered. Mort

The Thiago fiasco seemingly shows us nothing more than Thiago wants to join Bayern. And, quite frankly, in his position - who wouldn't?

I'd be happy with 1 or 2 midfielders and I'm pretty sure we'll get 1.

Ben

14 Jul 2013 11:00:24
Woodward coming out and saying Moyes has unlimited funds is going to put so much pressure on Moyes and make clubs hold us to ransom. It's a really stupid thing to say or a complete load of media s***. My bet it's the latter but if not, for god sake buy Vidal!

Red Joe

14 Jul 2013 10:16:58
I think people who say that the transfer window is there for almost two more months and we have time to sign players do not realize how difficult our opening fixtures are.

Gary Neville was correct in stating that we cannot start badly and fall too far behind City and Chelsea as catching up will be more and more difficult considering the quality even mid-table teams like Sunderland, Swansea and Norwich have been adding.

Personally I think we should finish all our first team signings (whatever we have in the pipeline) before 10th August.

14 Jul 2013 09:36:55
Here's something for you boys to think about. In Moyes press conference he spoke about how whilst he was still manager at Everton Fergie brought him to his house and gave him the United job. This of course is illegal and has meant that United have had to make a large payment to Everton to prevent it going any further.

Secondly I think most of you would be surprised if you were to find out what we really bid for Baines. We have actually only offered Everton 9 million for him no matter what the papers say.

Don't you think moyes knows exactly now much Everton are willing to accept for him? No point offering too much, pretty confident he will become a united player.

Well Baines isn't from Manchester, so should we be signing him at all?

Fred the red

Yeh every1 knows that Kloot, £9m is about right imo defo no more than £12

Wasnt Moyes in the last year of his contract
Also is Baines not the best left back in premier why shouldn't we bid for him. He
offers more than Evra Buttner and Fabio

What's so ground breaking about bidding £9m for Baines? I'm happy with that personally, probably with a view of increasing the bid.

KLOOT, isn't it possible that Kenwright gave him permission to talk to him and kept it a surprise to Moyes? I'm sure if they weren't allowed try wouldn't have done it, or at least Kenwright would have complained. Instead, as far as I can tell he gave him his consent.

Also is there any type of ruling giving them permission to talk given Moyes contract was up at the end of June?

MEF

Sorry forgot to leave a name on the post about a surprise to Moyes.

MEF

14 Jul 2013 08:57:47
my main concern from yesterday was how well adnan did, my concern is he hasn't yet signed up, worrying situation with i'm sure european teams eyeing him up

14 Jul 2013 07:25:15
With all the foreigners in the EPL I think it should be renamed as the International Premier League, or 'IPL'.

Problem with this is it may be confused with the Indian IPL. Moyes, without realising may then end up purchasing Kevin Peterson and playing him in a defensive midfield role. Jesus, I would have thought at least play him in attack.

This has got to be the worst bit of banter I have ever read. poor stuff no name

14 Jul 2013 06:50:09
lots of stick about Moyes at the moment, may be justified.
From Preston to Everton to Man U, big jumps. In my oppinion he will have a negative impact on the team, it is just a matter how long this lasts.
The team has been over achieveing for several years now and if you take RVP and Rooney out, not much left to frighten anyone in Europe.

What has Moyes won?
Nothing.
Winner or loser?
I don't get a good feeling about this, Singha All Stars (who are they?) defeat is not a good omen

Hey Clive Dunne, get real. SAF won major honours with this squad, because he created a team. Spending loads of money does not equal continual sustained success, look at chitty, chelski, the arse.

We always need new players to refresh the squad and add competition. Every year imo we should look at a new defender a midfielder and a striker. Some maybe the finished article and many will be young guys for the future. We do it every year and have managed to be successful.

Moyesee is an unknown as manager of MUFC. He cannot be judged on his previous roles, they may have got him the job but managing MUFC is the greatest management challenge in world football. This club is a monster in terms of size, history and expectation. He certainly cannot be judged on one pre season performance.

He is astute, he knows like many supporters have known for a number of years, get some proper midfield bite and creativity and this squad will move up a level. Whoever comes in, and we should expect a couple of midfielders, they will add value to this squad and see us compete on all fronts again this year. If we do not bring them in, because we have a great team ethic we will compete domestically again, its a simple as that.

Chelsea play Singha this Wednesday, let's see how they do

I think if you're going to argue the point with the original poster then your argument about Chelsea and city does not hold.
Yes, Chelsea have spent fortunes, but they have been as successful as united, trophy wise in recent times. In addition, city have come from nowhere and won the fa cup and the league. So if you are saying that just because they spend money it doesn't guarantee success, then you are right, but at the same time money has helped the rich clubs win trophies in recent times, Chelsea, city, PSG.
Point is no one wants to see united just buying anyone for a shed load of money, but at the same time, we need them to go for the right players, and if they become available, then we should be competing for their signatures. Apart from rvp, that has not been the case recently.
Nomidfield

I can tell you now that Chelsea will beat them comfortably. Make no mistake, our display yesterday apart from januzaj, was pretty poor.
Nomidfield

14 Jul 2013 06:27:20
I think yesterday was a poor result but if you think we will play like that in game that means something I don't think that will happen it was played like the first game of pre season I mean pretty much everyone looked rusty good to see zaha and januzaj settle quickly in the first team. I thought people have under estimated the potential of zaha I think he could be very good. But I wouldn't make any rash assessments off the back of that game I would wait till the last game of pre season see whose been signed cause I believe a minimum of 3 will be brought in and how we play with a full strength squad. Also wellbeck should convert to a winger if he doesn't learn to play as a striker very quickly he was really poor.
Browred

I don't think welbeck can be a winger as his crossing is not up to scratch, however, against Real, he showed that he could play in a midfield position, this might be worth a try on tour.
I don't think he's going to make a top striker as his finishing lacks composure. With the top strikers, they all have a knack of good finishing when in tight spaces. Welbeck, does not possess that.
Nomidfield

14 Jul 2013 02:11:04
This has to be said, and I'm actually disappointed that I have to say it, but the abuse of Danny Welbeck is a joke, calling him the new Heskey, that's a joke. Danny is a great player who needs to work on his finishing, his movement is good and he has blistering pace! If I recall in his first season he got around 15 goals when played up front, last season he played on the wing he isn't a winger he is a striker! It was the first game of pre season so he isn't going to be on the top of his game! Do you think if Danny welbeck was just another Heskey he wouldn't have been chosen to play ahead of Rooney and kagawa against Madrid in the second leg and he wouldn't have been nominated for young player of the season! I remember people saying the exact same for chicharito last tour when he couldn't hit a barn door yet look at the season he's had. Danny is still young and I've no doubt in years to come he will be one of the best strikers we've had. But final point if it was Van Persie who missed them chances would as much been made of it by the majority of the posters on here? The answer is no.

His movement and pace aren't in question nor is his work rate but his finishing is terrible for an international striker.
This isn't an anti-welbeck post because I like him and wouldn't want him to leave the club but he is never going to be a top class striker but in certain formations against certain teams he definately gives us something different.
just like heskey did for liverpool and england 10 years ago? ;)

BABY FACED ASSASIN

Well said! The tradition of this club is founded on young, local players. It's called 'soul'. It may not win the European Cup every year, but it matters. When we, or any other club, forget that, then football will have finally eaten itself. It really isn't just about winning.

Coalan_2

If you think Danny welbeck is going to be one of the best stickers we've ever had all I can say is what are you smoking?

He can finish, full stop! He is never going to be able to finish like chic or the like. He's clumsy and very indecisive.

Don't get me wrong he has great work rate and works his socks off, but he will never get us 25 goals a year, which is why in a few years hell either be sold, or moved to the wing IMO

Alex Fergusons Condom

Agreed this club is traditionally built on youth but welbeck and cleverley are no giggs or scholes or best or beckham are they? I agree every squad needs these type of players but certainly cleverley is nowhere near good enough at the top level against the top teams at least welbeck offers something. I don't think anyone would deny they are good to have in the squad but a regular team of that calibre of player would see us in mid-table at best.
and try telling sir matt or sir alex that winning isn't everything

BABY FACED ASSASIN

He's not a natural finisher and will never be. Look at chicatitto and he IS a natural finisher.
Welbeck however, has a lot of other good attributes, work rate is excellent, pace, aggression. Personally, I think he'll be very good in midfield. Might be worth a try on tour, what have we got to lose?
Nomidfield

On his day wellbeck can be great! u need look no further than adrid away, he ran the show.

14 Jul 2013 13:53:22
Welbeck will not be one of our greatest strikers! Yes he's quick and he works hard but his shooting is terrible. He often does the hard bit by beating his man, creates a bit of space, then shoots and the ball goes somewhere near the corner flag, or row z, then he falls over! Ok squad player yes, one of our greatest strikers - just no. Like I said, he has some good points but come on let's get real. !

Danny welbeck has scored 11 goals in 64 league appearances for us compared to hernandez 33 in 77 and RVP 26 in 38. that's how far he's is off being a top class striker.

BABY FACED ASSASIN

13 Jul 2013 23:49:51
{Ed007's Note - This is getting silly now, now you are saying Manchester United don't need to invest or compete for top players. This conversation is over. Oh and by the way, my 'fantasy manager' is exactly where I would want him to be. }

I seen you putting this to Dylan who is or should be in the loony bin. Out of interest who is your fantasy manager as very few actually wanted Moyes at United besides me.

George711
Give us your opinion would love to hear it?
Dylan

Dylan,
i admire the fact you defend our players when they're critisized or whatever but when you say cleverley and welbeck will prove us wrong I can't agree. both will never be more than squad players at our club unfortunately.
im sure we all want to see players come through the ranks but in all honesty if they played for another club would you be on here screaming for us to sign them? probably not. You say cleverley and welbeck are rated by the people that matter so why did SAF ferguson play giggs and even rooney there ahead of him last season? you talk of being impatient yet cleverley is 24 next month and hasn't improved for at least 18 months and although I actually like welbeck i'm afraid he's never going to be a top striker simply because his finishing is awful.
Sorry for the long post

BABY FACED ASSASIN

Baby Faced Assassin
The importance of squad players that can come in and perform is crucial to our campaign it's also more important that they are homegrown unlike your wishes or worry of Chealsea &City who go down the we, ll try and buy quality and hope for team spirit.
Togetherness is key at this level and we seem to have this in abundance, the only problem is Rooney who does not seem to look too happy.
Dylan

Baby Faced Assasin

Nice to hear someone speak the truth not blinded by united goggles just because these are local boys! That's all it is, reality is both are not good enough! Do you see the likes or barca. Real, buyern, miland etc trying to sign clevs and welbeck? Yet ye spanish kids the same age are already running the show, the likes of thiago and Isco are wanted by everyone! I for one would be happy to see ours sold

Alex Fergusons Condom

Dylan
im not denying the importance of squad players and if you read some of my replies to other posts you'l see that.
I admire your positivity but to claim the only problem in our team is rooney is ridiculous IMO. togetherness is all well and good but it doesn't give you that bit of magic when things aren't going well only the best players give you that and we don't have many of them infact in midfield we have none! squad players yes but no more than that. SAF knew how to get the best out of what we had and even he picked giggs and rooney ahead of cleverley at the end of last season so what does that tell you?

BABY FACED ASSASIN

Tbh A. F. C its not just us its every club in the country that struggles to produce great kids unlike spain or germany where they come through all the time you're right that for the very top level they probably aren't good enough and if they were at another club we wouldn't even notice them.
in all honesty since giggs, scholes etc came through nearly 20yrs ago we haven't produced any top class british talent which for a club like ours isn't good enough

BABY FACED ASSASIN

Guys, way we have to look at it is, we are one of the big five teams in the world, so will cleverly it welbeck make the starting line up in barca, Real, bayern, or juve? Of course the answer is no and they never will be.
We can all build our players as much as we want, but at the end of the day, can the above two along with Anderson, young, nani play for the top teams, the answer is no chance.
So like it or hate it, we have to face our problems and recognise we are way short of the quality of the top teams. Barca, real and bayern each have at least 7 world class players in their teams, we don't possess that. But with the addition of two top midfielders, a top left winger, we will not be far off.
Nomidfield