Current Avatar:
No Avatar image uploaded
No Avatar image uploaded
Manchester United Rumours Member Posts
Cherk's Profile
Correct Score Competition:
Not entered
Correct Score Competition
Not entered
Correct Score Competition
Flat Out Racing:
Not played Flat Out Racing
Not played Flat Out Racing
No Profile Picture uploaded
Team: Where from: Favourite player: Best team moment: Interests: Timezone: |
Cherk's Posts and Other Poster's Replies To Cherk's Posts
To Cherk's last 5 banter posts
To Cherk's last 5 rumour replies
To Cherk's last 5 banter replies
Cherk's banter posts with other poster's replies to Cherk's banter posts
29 Mar 2014 02:46:31
Guys,
We have to give Moyes a chance. IF anyone here is familiar with any organisation structure (and Manchester United is an organisation - whether we want to admit it or not), they will understand. Change Management is hard. Particularly when it comes to a huge fan base like Man Utd.
Man Utd will finish in the top 4 next season and the following we will be champions again.
Its hard to take what we have endured this season - for everyone, but honestly - you have to be realistic. Moyes IS the man for the job. He will lead us to glory if we give him time. We have been overloaded with success because of Alex Ferguson (he was a ferak of nature with the midas touch).
I do find it funny that the majority of people that want Moyes out are the same people who last season and the season before wanted Fergie out - but now fergie has left these people are lost.
A dynasty is not built in 1 season. If we give david moyes a chance he will bring us dominance, but not for one season - for a decade +
I would ask anyone who doesn't agree with this to google one caption "Change Management challanges"
Hoping we turn the corner soon! :)
1.) Cheek sadly I can't share your optimism. You're correct in saying a dynasty can't be created in a season but it can surely be destroyed in one.
2.) Sensible post. I agree that calling for Moyes' head part-way through his first season is a little hasty. He deserves to have the chance to make his own team.
3.) I have a lot of experience of change management and the handover was amateurish. However, when you look at what SAF inherited and compare it to what Moyes got it isn't in the same sphere. Moyes inherited the Champions chomping at the bit wanting to believe, however his lack of experience and not having won anything means it is impossible to believe in his methods both for us and almost certainly you can say that about the players given the commitment or lack of it they have shown this season. Moyes old club are showing signs of the negative shackles being released, his old players talking about the new positives and improved tactics, Moyes old club fans wouldn't have him back. Moyes knows one way and is good at getting the most out of relatively good players, but has never worked with top players and my thoughts are that he is struggling because he only knows one way. We needed a leader and got a workmanlike coach and that isn't enough at the top level.
He has to go to protect the future of the club whose football image is being severely damaged by his negativity right now
4.) Cherk,
While I agree with you to an extent, "change management" in a business organisation is very different to that of a football team. It may well apply to the corporate side of Manchester United, but the football side is very different. Do you honestly think footballers are interested in buying in to all that. Footballers want to play football and win trophies.
The responsibility for managing change lies with the management, not the employee (in this case the players). So far, it would appear that Moyes has not done very well at this. In my opinion, Moyes' biggest mistake was coming out and saying publicly that the squad was not good enough, and lacked quality. All this about a team that has just won the league at a canter.
He didn't have a good start in the job anyway, but what way is that statement going to motivate his players, and get them to "buy in " to his ways and methods.
There is saying which we all know, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Moyes did inherit a team that needed freshening up, but he has tried to change too much too quick in my opinion. A few new faces to go with the quality we already have was all that was needed.
The players have ability, but in all sport, application is more important than ability. These same players applies themselves under SAF, but they have not under Moyes. The players must take a fair portion of the blame for that. But Moyes has to take the brunt of it because he is the manager, and he has failed to motivate his players.
I've said since day one he should be given time, but he has showed nothing at all in 9 months. I know there is an argument that we won't see his vision until he gets the players he wants. But if he can't motivate these players, what's to say he can motivate the players he brings in? He is a decent, honest man. who did a good job at Preston and Everton. I'm not overly worried about the fact that he hasn't won trophies, but more so that he is not used to working with top players with big ego's. He just does not seem to have the confidence or ability to manage them. His whole demeanour is negative, and it has rubbed off on the players.
United do lack quality in some areas, but he should never have come out and said it in public. Have you ever heard another manager of a top team do that? We still have RVP, Rooney, Kagawa, Januzaj Mata (for a short time admittedly) Carrick, Valencia, Nani etc etc. Some have been missing through injury fair enough, but there is more than enough quality in that squad to be at least challenging for top 4. We have massively under achieved this season, and Moyes must take majority of the blame.
Going back to the original point, you are not the first person on here to bring a business argument. But like I said, the football side of things is very different. In business, how many people do you know that sign fixed term contracts, and then get the remainder of that contract paid up in full if they are dismissed for poor performance?
Also, how can you say that Moyes IS right for United, that we WILL be top 4 next season, and we WILL win the league the season after? If you do know this for sure, is there any chance you could give me tonights lottery numbers? :)
5.) Betty
"the responsibility for managing change lies with the management, not the employee (in this case the players). So far, it would appear that Moyes has not done very well at this."
Even though I agree with a lot of stuff that you post, on this one I have to disagree mate.
I have gone through two of these in my corporate career before going out on my own and had Mckinsey and PWC, who are renowned for this, riding shot gun and helping us through the process. A few things that change management is all about:
1. Management driven but the people in this case players have to buy in and it starts at all levels of the organisation and not just at the top of the organisation. Then you have the additional layer of complexity of fans and media that also needs to be managed in our case because of who we are.
We talked about flag bearers for the change at every level and one thing that is probably making it difficult for him is these players are not his and have no alliances or history with him with the exception of Rooney funny enough. I don't believe he has the support of every player but that is not relevant if there is desire to change things.
2. The average time required to see initial results in great organization is 2 to 3 years minimum, which is subject to constant reinforcement and total commitment during that process.
3. There will be those who don't buy into it and will be disruptive. In a football clubs case I am again assuming it is more complicated as you also have to consider the fans, the players and traditional media and social media, which can be very disruptive and makes managing the change extremely difficult in today's day and age.
I have personally experienced this and people who publicly say the right things but in practice are very disruptive and resistant to the change. Unfortunately they must be cut and let go no matter how important to the company.
I do agree with you about one thing that his statement are not helping when it comes to the players but not privy to what is going on inside the club.
In summary this is a monumental task for anyone and I can understand why we are so divided on the issue because there are those who believe he was the wrong guy even before he started.
If he is still here next year I believe we will see exits of players for footballing reasons and some for resisting change.
6.) Good post Betty swallocks.
7.) GCU, I take your point that the employees (the players) have to buy into the process. But this will not happen if he does not get the players "on side". I'm not sure he had the dressing room anyway, but I feel he certainly lost it after his public statement that the players weren't good enough.
I don't profess to know everything about business organisations, and what I do is more in theory than practice, attained from further education in Business Studies and Economics.
My main point though was that "change management", while relevant to business organisations is probably not a good model for footballers. Can you imagine your average footballer discussing it, let alone going through the process. Probably something along the lines of this:
Moyes: Right lads, were going to be doing something a little different today. No football, we're going to be talking about change management. Sir Alex was here since the Battle Of Hastings, but now he has gone. Things are going to be different, so I just wanted to talk to you all today about the new processes I want to bring in, and discuss with you how you feel about it.
Right, let's start. Wayne, how do you think we should manage the change?
Rooney: Erm, erm well I think we should put two buckets on the floor in the changing room. Coppers in one, silver and quids in the other.
Stoney silence. Steve Round giggles. Players all looking confused.
Moyes: Right lads, change of plan. Phil, you get the balls. Steve, go get the cones. Put your boots on lads.
8.) Betty
Made me smile. I think the magnitude of the change is underestimated by the average fan who just wants us to win no matter what.
It did agree with you on the fact that he should have not made that statement.
I have 25 bets on today and nice start to the day :)
I think he will keep his job until next week or not depending on the Bayern result:)
9.) CGU
In terms of change management the experts will tell you it may take a period to make the overall improvement required but they want and expect the client to see some signs of benefit in three to six months to retain the client belief they are going in the right direction. Each project is different and some longer than others but there should be early signs of it being the right direction.
Two points
1) We were Champions needing players being replaced and didn't need a major overhaul as SAF had to do
2) We have seen no such signs of benefit
10.) Obvious you just miss the whole thing if you think we were just fine and did not need an overhaul Struggling to get through group stages of Europe the last few years should have been enough warning for a club with 700 million fans and 3rd highest turnover in football, But hey we were just fine.
3 to 6 months really, maybe if you are selling kababs somewhere in kensington :)
21 Aug 2013 13:16:03
Guys,
We need to be realistic. We are not signing a big name player this year.
How many current first team players have come out and said they are happy with the current squad, we're good enough to defend the league title etc.
I'm not being pessimistic, but we have to read the writing on the wall. We are not signing anyone that will improve the first 11.
If fergie was still here, I would not be as concerned.
We certainly have a challenge ahead of us this year. But we will rise to this challenge. We always do best when our back is against the wall.
This is a real test for Moyes - i'm hoping we are not looking for blood when he goes through a bad patch (all manager do).
Lets just get behind Moyes and the team - we still have a great squad.
1.) I'm concerned the club are trying to stretch these deals out until the last minute, in order to get the cheapest price. This seems the case with both Felliani and Baines. Moyes' and the club are probably hoping that they will both push hard for a move, forcing Everton to sell to us at a lower price. Problem is, we could realistically end up signing no-one as a consequence of the negotiating stance United seem to be taking, which is worrying, considering we 'desperately' need a new Centre-Midfielder.
2.) I couldn't agree more samthered. I think that is the situation also, but let us remember that since we were distroyed in midfield by barcelona in 2009 champions league final - we have been fully aware that we need a central midfielder. we have not bought one. that's a long time to address a very obvious difficiency in our midfield.
I can't see it happening. The best we can hope for is that an upcoming youth player stands up and gets noticed.
3.) 21 Aug 2013 15:15:18
Sorry but I am definitely expecting a couple of class signings (Fellaini is not in this category) why shouldn't we for God's sake?!? We have an ok squad but by no means is it great, too much below standard dross in there. And don't give me the "We won the league easily last year" line because we were flattered last year and had a bit of luck as well.! That will not happen this year.! We need, and I am expecting, 2 or 3 "class" signings this window. If not we will finish third at best, more likely fourth.!
4.) Cherk,
we had Fletcher and Schole's still about back then. Even last season, Scholes still gave us options in the middle of the park, due to his excellent passing range. Problem is, we have no Scholes to rely on now, and no Fletcher, who we all could rely on to put in a shift. What worries me is the fact that we are basically pinning our hopes on Carrick playing at the highest level - all season long, and not getting any injuries, which is a bit of an ask for any player, let-alone one who is now hitting the end of his peak.
The good thing is, Moyes' does know this. SAF new it too; but his style of play was always dependent on our wingers and the quality of our centre-forwards, so it mitigated the lack of quality we had in CM. Moyes' on the other-hand, does not use out and out wingers, and prefers to use his full-backs to deliver the width. Even when he played his 4411 system at Everton, his wide players would play quite narrow. Last season, it seemed to me that he perfected that system with Everton: Pienaar and Mirallas enabled Everton to be a lot more expansive due to their positioning and movement, which often saw them operating as free-roaming attacking midfielders, as opposed to natural wide-men.
Anyway, I hope we get some good news soon. Some could really do with it by the sounds of it.
16 Jun 2013 00:51:56
We won the premier league with a squad consisting of depth in defence.
We bought Velera- which I understand- cover and competition for Rachael, but Garay?
Is he the same standard asÂ
Vidic, Â Ferdinand, Â Evans, smalling,
Jones?
Rumours of left back been bought also.
Probably the strongest area of our squad looks to being strengthened! Who in defence will leave?
will we finally get a CM that we have been missing since barca beat us convincingly (even with ronny)!
It looks to me that our whole style of play will be changed, let's hope it's effective!
1.) There's a woman playing for United?
2.) Since when did we sign women full backs?
MANCRED 99
3.) Rachel, love it. Bit harsh though
Well ed, I know when I'm going for a job I weigh up all the options and pick the best company. I'm sure footballers do the same. Stats are hugely important. They estimate the growth trend. I don't think players of bales calibre have wages being a serious issue. I'm sure he wants to win medals.
Just my opinion
And yes Dan I'd luv a pr job with man utd--are u offering :)
Well ed, Statistics can prove anything 90% of people know this :)
I just look at it from a winning point of view - if you fancy having medals on your CV. And working with Sir Alex, Is there anywhere else in Englsnd you'd want to go?
Ok-- il take off the tinted glasses, forgive my naivity and my excitement before the match :)
{Ed002's Note - So you agree they are of no relevance to the original question.}
The stats don't lie Ed, biggest following in the world, dominated premiership since Fergie took over.
Pretty straight forward in my book (not biased at all. Ha ha)
Im pretty sure you were being sarcastic. No :)
{Ed002's Note - What is the possible relevance of the statistics?}
I would think any player would welcome a move to us, the questions are 1) does fergie want him and 2) are we willing to pay the outrageous transfer fee that has been speculated.
I think he would defo have a first team place so would get plenty of game time and would really give us even more options-- can't see it happening though : (
{Ed002's Note - I am astonished that you think "any player would welecome a move to us". Are you a Liverpool supporter.}
Could not agree more
I couldn't agree more samthered. I think that is the situation also, but let us remember that since we were distroyed in midfield by barcelona in 2009 champions league final - we have been fully aware that we need a central midfielder. we have not bought one. that's a long time to address a very obvious difficiency in our midfield.
I can't see it happening. The best we can hope for is that an upcoming youth player stands up and gets noticed.
Seriously Sydney, I wouldn't have Nani near the squad never mind the team
Agree, we've been looking to sign a quality midfielder since we were outclassed in champions league final against Barcelona (first one) -- we still haven't addressed it for whatever reason (not complaining, I'm sure the master has his reasons), why not not get Rooney placed for the role? He is more than capable and we already have quality forwards apart from Wayne
Would prefer Welbeck on the wing instead of tony. But then who am I to question the master :)
COYR. 1-3 Man Utd