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14 Oct 2018 20:50:13
United today announced a strategic partnership with Saudi Arabia on the official website. I wonder if negotiations with this are the source of the rumours about the Saudi royal family wanting to buy the club. It doesn't sound plausible but this is a rumour site and there are rumours about a £4bn offer.

Agree0 Disagree0

14 Oct 2018 21:04:04

And if it happens I will find another club to support. Some things in life are more important than football.

14 Oct 2018 21:11:58
Think I would fall out of love with Top tier football if this was the case, I've fallen out of love a bit, since the money went insane so this would tip me over the edge.

1990s early 00s will always live on for me, yes we were great but since then the football has taken a back seat and money is the main thing now.

14 Oct 2018 21:16:25
lets face it, IF the Glazers ever sold up and that's a big if who has got 3 or 4 billion to spend on an investment/ hobby/ rich mans toy? its only ever going to be one of the oil rich countries, or a Russian shady character or a Chinese faceless conglomerate . hardly a great choice is it?

14 Oct 2018 23:43:47
Red Man in principle I agree with you. Selling out to the less than liberal rulers of a kingdom which funds how shall I put this. that allegedly funds soldiers of dubious ethics and morality. as well being rulers of a ki gdom that treats women as second class citizens. This is not what Man Utd should ever be associated with. But as pointed out Big Bucks rules in football now. Seems to me nobody cares much about the owners of our noisy neighbours and Barca. The Qatari regime is not exactly a paragon of virtue. So being pragmatic if our club prostitutes itself by being sold to the highest bidder if us the fans do not protest en masse we have no right to complain. Imagine banners all round OT with Saudis Out. It won't happen.

15 Oct 2018 07:54:05

WWE are rethinking their deals with Saudi and pulling out of a show to the tune of $45m, I can’t see why United would do business with them at this time after recent events.

15 Oct 2018 11:21:15
I'd rather the club be in the hands of people responsible for shady business deals, than those drenched in blood.

15 Oct 2018 11:36:08
Who owns PSG? Barca? Man City? Who have the most money to spend and win big? Barca? PSG? Man City? Grow with times folks. Its not the medieval times anymore. Its all about the money. And everyone knows where the money is. Its not like they had a choice to get the oils in their lands.
Its not like a 100 years ago where a millionaire was considered rich. A billionaire now "may" be considered rich and we all know where the money is right now. And its not like the Sheiks would be playing at OT. It will still be the players. The difference would be better facilities at OT. Better academies with modern technologies. Haven’t we been crying out for all these things for almost an eternity now? What's wrong with someone putting in their money and we get the overall betterment?

If we take your point and boycott any relations with the Middle East, should England not send a team to the Qatar World Cup?

15 Oct 2018 11:48:55
Damn straight Noucamp, my thoughts exactly.

15 Oct 2018 14:45:45
Shan, unfortunately it still is the medieval times in Saudi. But if it's all about the buck, then fair play to you.

15 Oct 2018 15:15:20
Stevie, you took the exact same words out of my mouth. Just because others are down in the gutter does not mean we should join them. Success does not come at any wtimes you have to be better than that.

15 Oct 2018 17:45:43
You sound like Trump Shan! I completely disagree with you, and your argument about it not being medieval times is a little ironic considering recent events.

15 Oct 2018 17:59:45
It is never EVER right to accept Blood money.
I hope it is a non starter but we're it to happen it's goodbye from me I would not even pause to think about it.

15 Oct 2018 20:46:29
Guys it would not stop me supporting manchester united.
How many garments in your wardrobes are made in sweat shops from the far east.
How much food do you eat from the same type of source? .
How much food do you throw away while people are starving?
Do you put petrol in your car or heat your homes with oil?
Do you use their airlines?
Or any airline fuelled by the same sources?
In some way everyday you support from your wallets those that you condemn. We all do.
I would rather we had different owners than the new ones being touted. But i will always support manchester united.
Its double standards to buy their products everyday but then not support the club you love because they own it.
Politics and sport don't mix well. I agree that sport boycotts can make a difference but its no good if its not backed up with worldwide financial boycotts also.
There is the moral dilema of course but we all choose everyday to ignore the moral dilemma when we need to get to work.
How many people on this site depend on those countries outputs to feed our own families? I think we all do in some way.
Just puts a different perspective on it i think.

15 Oct 2018 21:09:15
There's a difference between using those items needed for the basics of daily living, like clothes and food, and what is essentially a hobby. I think there's a lack of perspective in that comparison, Ken.

15 Oct 2018 22:13:51
I don't think so stevie. If we all stopped and thiught about every chioce we make routinely make daily we could use a lot less of their products. So what's your saying its ok at our convenience but not as a hobby?
There are lots of options of course they are more expensive in most cases. Buy bying those products mostly or often by choice because there are always options we support the regime's and businesses you detest.
Most people are appalled by the humanitarian issues in these places in the middle eadt I've spent lots of time in them and at times it is very uncomfortable to me personally. But no more so than places I've been in india china south africa thailand and many more.
So where do you draw the line?
All i know is we are very lucky to live where we do. But we have to live in hope that these countries records will improve like many of their european conterparts. Its only just over 100 years ago that the british empire was built by invasion raping and piliging and less than that when germany and italy were run by dictators so we can only hope that intime these countries will change their ways like others much closer to home have done.

15 Oct 2018 23:04:28
If your country is run by a medieval branch of any religion, change isn't coming any time soon.

15 Oct 2018 23:08:05
Also, for many, many people in these islands who are on the poverty line, or below, they don't have the luxury of picking and choosing where they get their food from. It's easy to have ethics when you've the money to back up your principles. I maintain that you can't compare concern over the essentials of everyday living, with a hobby.

15 Oct 2018 23:34:06
My point is that we all do it wealthy and non wealthy alike Stevie.
But it would be your choice whether you choose to support the club or not. I wouldn't deny myself the pleasure i get from supporting united by abstaining, and then fill my car fly all over the world and put my kids in primark socks and jocks lining the pockets of those same regime's.
I could afford to buy more expensive socks but choose not to. subconsciously i reckon.
Its double standards born out of convenience most of the time not by financial constraints. But of course we live in a free society so your free to argue otherwise😂😂😂
Personally i think anybody who would let the ownership change your mind on supporting the club would be mad.

15 Oct 2018 23:48:33
All it needs for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. I think that's a fair paraphrasing of a famous saying. It is true as has been pointed out above that we make choices everyday about items we buy and the cars we drive. The fact that we do not stop to think and act with more care about such purchases does not absolve any of us of our responsibility to others less fortunate than ourselves. It's blindingly obvious that a rich man will have far more choices to spend his money than a poor man on the breadline who can only afford clothes which are made in sweatshops. Even so each and every one of us has a personal responsibility to try and make the world a better place. It can be as simple as helping someone cross the road or as complicated as getting a Corporate Giant to change their policy about eg drinking straws. What is for sure is that we really do have huge clout if we act together. If the Saudis were close to buying out the club and all UTD supporters at a home match turned up wearing Saudis go home it would make world news and they would suffer a huge loss of face. In the Arab world such things matter. They would never be able to live it down. It would be humiliation on a global scale. It would also be making an important statement about us as fans. Yes we want success but not at any cost.

16 Oct 2018 00:08:43
Great post hedonred.

16 Oct 2018 00:32:54
I can't agree with that type of tee shirt but i take your point hendon.
I could draw a long list of preferred owners and would run out of ink before you would choose them.
But the glazers will sell eventually to the highest bidders that meet all the requirements to legally own a football club.
I would like to think that the glazers and any potential buyers would listen to the fans and public opinion but that may well not be the case.
Im not sure there is any truth in the rumour ed002 doesn't seem to endorse the rumour so its all very well debating the hypothesis but as someone pointed out above at 4bn there are likely to be very few bidders and walt disney won't be one of them.
Its a concern to all supporters thst the club is in the hands of good owners. We can only hope that turns out to be the case. We as fans will have options and choices to make. I wouldn't condemn any supporter for staying or any supporter choosing to leave. I wouldn't agree with them but that's the beauty of the society we live in. We all get to choose.
By the way Hendon
Ill be looking to do a good deed for someone tomorrow. Great post and reminder that simple things can make the world a better place for someone else every day. Cheers.

16 Oct 2018 06:29:28
great argument Ken. Had the exact same thought when I read "irony". You know, and this one might be more suited to the Conspiracy pages, but think it suits as a reply to some on her saying its blood money. The irony is that everyone deep down knows that whose thirst for oil started this war in the middle east. And that war is the reason for the situation we find ourselves in right now.

I will always support Manchester United, no matter if the owner is a Sheik from Saudi or a suited Sheik from the US. Its the game we love.

16 Oct 2018 07:55:51
SHAN i really do hope for a better life for those people. But its not so long ago that the british were invading other countries and indeed they still occupy a quarter of ireland and rule there.
How do you think they got those lands and hold power in what is effectively an occupied stste. They came and raped pilliged and stole the land with their superior wealth and army. The irony of a law enforcement officer in that occupied state arguing against modern day dictators is very evident. That only goes back to our grandfather's generation indeed mine fought for our freedom in the south of ireland.
Good overcame evil in germany only 70 years ago. There is hope that things will change in the middle east. But where do you draw the line is my question? Or how short does ones memory have to be to forget the awful atrocities commited by the british in only recent history.
Now the british are virtues of freedom and fight for other countries less wealthy and less fortunate which is very comendable but still a little ironic while they still occupy part of a country onland they stole from that countries people just over 100 years ago.

{Ed001's Note - you forgot about how the British were the ones who installed the regimes in Saudi Arabia etc, and the things they did in order to install them. Ranulph Fiennes wrote a book about some of the things he did out in the Middle East while with the SAS. Those things were so bad that he was very nearly assassinated over the revelations (which was the subject of a film starring Jason Statham and Robert De Niro) and they were not even the worst things that happened. The current regime in Saudi is making steps forward towards a more reasonable and fair rule, though they have a long way to go, it does seem unfair to hold the past under previous rulers against them. Surely we should be judging the regime on its own actions not those of the past? Otherwise anything to do with the USA has to be judged by the basis of genocide inflicted on the native Americans, anything to do with Britain has to be judged on their various actions, Germany on what the Nazis did and so on.}

16 Oct 2018 08:49:46
Bang on 001. people have short memories or are totally ignorant of their ancestors past.
Things will and are changing for the better over there slowly but it is improving.
People in glass houses and all that. Thanks for the bit of perspective.

{Ed001's Note - very welcome ken, I wouldn't be in England if it had not been for the English putting some of my ancestors in a concentration camp. Something the English invented, incidentally, even though they are now associated with Nazi Germany. No one's history is clean. Patriotism itself was only invented as a concept by medieval kings finding it difficult to raise armies to fight their wars of conquest. At the end of the day, we are all individuals and should not be judged because our ancestors did something we find distasteful.

You only have to look at the way we view certain historical people to see how judgement is flawed anyway. Alexander of Macedon is known as 'The Great' in western culture, yet he is seen as a demon in many cultures and used to frighten children into behaving because of the slaughter his men performed in winning their battles. Then there is Genghis Khan, whose seen as a demon in western culture, yet he was far less brutal than any of his contemporaries in the west. Quite the opposite in fact, he was even instigating state education for all his peoples for free, at a time when only the rich in the west were allowed it. So how can we judge anyone, when our perspective is skewed?}

16 Oct 2018 08:53:30
Ken. I agree with all you say that life is full of difficult and often unavoidable choices. eg Clothes from sweatshops are almost unavoidable, certainly without depriving the exploited people working in them of the the very little they do have, but we can ameliorate these choices by trying to support agencies promoting fair trade of all sorts.

In the case of Saudi Bin Laden money the choice is easy as it only affects MU and myself. Only I will suffer the deprivation of not watching. MU will probably not notice. Sometimes you just have to do the right thing. Hopefully it will never happen, but if it does, I will walk away easily and without regret.
Other views are respected, but disagreed with. That's probably enough politics for now.

16 Oct 2018 09:36:31
Britain. The only people to have ever committed atrocities. The bitterness is strong in this thread.

{Ed001's Note - what are you talking about? What a pointless comment and clearly written by someone who has not understood a word of it. Nobody has said that other than you. The most bitter things in this thread have been posted by you. You do realise that all anyone is saying is that judgemental people like yourself are in no position to judge others. Every country has a past steeped in blood. It is how they were created in the first place, via conquest. As for trying to differentiate shady business deals from people with blood on their hands, there is very often blood left on people's hands from shady business deals.}

16 Oct 2018 09:41:27
Great debate this, some really good arguments.

In my view it is totally out of order to knowingly support or endorse anything which is owned by Saudi Arabia and other murderous, torturing, slavemonging dictators. If the Saudi's buy Man Utd and you support their club then you also support them.

You can dress it up all you want and deflect from the issue with how we all unwittingly support these people but that's just conveniently muddling the issue because you don't want to face the awful truth.

The hideous truth is that Man Utd would be part of the House of Saud and by continuing to support the club you would be complicit in legitimising them.

If you think your weekend jolly to have a sing song and watch 22 men kick a ball is more important than denouncing the horrific acts of these people then that really says a lot about you.

16 Oct 2018 10:07:07
Ed001, my comment was directed purely at Ken's comments on Britain and Ireland. Nothing else. I'm not going to get into a historical argument on these pages, but some of the language used is the sort of thing that you would see on a propaganda pamphlet from An Poblacht. 'Raping and pillaging', 'occupied island' etc. I get my understanding from history from nearly 20 years of studying Irish and European history, from actual history books. Coming from that 'occupied' part of Ireland, I would suggest Ken maybe spends a bit of time north of the border, and see how the majority of people, especially our youth, have moved away from the outdated language and entrenched views from the past.

{Ed001's Note - like you should move away from an outdated view of Saudi you mean? I mean one of 'Medieval' times that bear no relation to the way of life there. It is (though hopefully that will be was soon with the changes being made under the current regime) more akin to the Puritan rule in Britain and nothing like the Medieval period of about a 1000 years earlier. I get what you are saying but you are just as guilty of judging on the past and not looking at what is being done right now to change it. It will be a slow process there but it is not like the west is much further along the path to equality as the #metoo movement has shown mate.}

16 Oct 2018 10:18:36
Ed001, I've also read back over my posts on this one and can't see where the accusation of bitterness has come from. I don't think anyone can argue that the particular religious sect that governs that country, could ever conceivably seen as in any way progressive. If supporting gay rights and gender equality, along with opposing capital punishment makes me bitter, then fair enough.

{Ed001's Note - the post I replied to of yours was bitter. The fact you call it a religious sect is bitter, as it is not any longer being governed by one, but by a royal family. Hence why it is progressing, not progressive. Yes there is a monstrously long way for the country to go and no I do not think their current laws and way of life are how I believe a country should be run. However, it is not something a new regime can change overnight if the changes are to last. It takes time and it currently has the support of the younger generation to make them, so it will hopefully come. They are going in the right direction though and should not be judged by what happened in the past but judged by the actions of the current regime. Some of which have been extremely questionable, but overall they have made huge forward leaps in regards to women's rights and allowing cinemas and concerts etc. It is what they do next that matters, not what they did in the past.}

16 Oct 2018 10:23:12
And I'll retract the 'medieval' comment, Ed001. No offence meant.

{Ed001's Note - I get you are not trying to offend and it does not offend me other than in its incorrectness offending my pedantry. I personally have a dislike of Saudi Arabia and how it treats overseas workers, but that does not mean I judge the current regime on that basis. I have friends there and the stories they tell you about how they are treated are seriously disturbing. But that is because of past regimes and hopefully it will improve under the new one.}

16 Oct 2018 10:31:06
What is history but a fable agreed upon. the other part becomes the conspiracy.

16 Oct 2018 10:44:08
Here's hoping, Ed001. I was referring more I suppose to the way the Wahhabist thinking is ingrained throughout their ruling class, as opposed to the Royal Family in particular. That could take generations to permeate, as I well know coming from Northern Ireland. I also appreciate, if the current ruler is genuine in his desire to reform, that he has to play a delicate balancing act.

And before anyone else starts on me, I'm well aware of the problems in successive governments of our own as regards human rights. They're no saints, and they've not represented me in their actions. But that doesn't mean I still can't give a considered opinion on a particular foreign government.

Good job this is all just a rumour, eh :)

{Ed001's Note - it would certainly be a surprise if they bought United. I think they have bigger fish to fry keeping the country on the tightrope they are currently on between the young that want to live like the west and the older generation that want it to stay as it was, though that is an overgeneralisation I know of the situation.

I am not sure committing billions to the buyout of a football club would be something they wished to do right now. They have tended to operate away from the limelight in the past, buying POTUS instead....}

16 Oct 2018 11:05:27
Oooh, controversial Ed001. But I thought the Russians had got there first 😉.

{Ed001's Note - good point, they got beat to the punch this time, so maybe that money could be put to better use buying Man Utd instead....}

16 Oct 2018 11:38:25
Though they have committed to a ten year deal with the WWE Ed, I know an upcoming event in November they are paying WWE €45m so putting a lot of money into sport and entertainment isn’t a strange thing for them to do, categorise wwe as you feel lol.

{Ed001's Note - I would prefer not to even think about it to be honest.}

16 Oct 2018 11:03:42
I am certainly not ignorant of our historical part in installing or supporting many dubious regimes. It is never too late to disassociate ourselves from them.

16 Oct 2018 17:08:20
Noucamp should be bitter and judgemental about those who are running Saudi Arabia. Nevermind the oppressiveness inside the country, what about the genocide and humanitarian disaster they are causing in the Yemen?

Also, all this argument that so and so was worse before is irrelevant. It's a not a race to the bottom.

Bottom line is the House of Saud and the misery they perpetuate is disgusting and they should rightly be ostracised in any way possible. I'm just glad I don't support City because I'd already have walked away from them with their Abu Dhabi owners.

Having said all that, I'm sure the vast majority of those from Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi are lovely people.

The more general point here is that football needs taking down a peg or two. Someone made the point that only a handful of people/ organisations/ governments can afford top end football clubs these days and very few who have that kind of wealth are particularly cuddly. The best you could probably hope for is a Bezos or a Zuckerberg or a Glazer ha ha.

We as customers need to start walking away from the excesses and the dirty money. At what point do we say enough is enough because it's been ruined and it's no longer the game we used to enjoy? It's only when the game starts losing popularity and money with it that things might change. If you keep turning up and switching on no matter what then it's only going to get worse.

16 Oct 2018 20:25:58
Great debate lads.

Tough subject nou, of course the youth of today are moving on from that 'oudated' language but it's a bit of a minefield.

Not sure if you've watched it, but take time to watch Brian odriscolls shoulder to shoulder on BT. Fantastic about how the sport or rugby brings us altogether that no border can disrupt.

16 Oct 2018 21:37:35
I did, mate. Great show, and BOD's just the sort of role-model all the young people on our island should be aspiring to emulate.

16 Oct 2018 21:38:24
And I hope 'minefield' wasn't a terrible pun, Angel :)

16 Oct 2018 21:47:37
Haha nou, honestly not intended 😂 should have really thought that through.

Yeah, it was brilliant. I wish some of those applied their logic behind supporting the rugby tema as one to everyday life.

16 Oct 2018 22:06:53
I'm an Ulsterman first and foremost, Angel, with my mother's side being native Irish, so I consider myself to be in the enviable position of having both an Irish and a British identity. Best of both worlds :)

19 Oct 2018 00:36:36
Good thread. The thing about northern Ireland now is the south couldn't afford to run it.
They can't house the people down here. i watched the bod. Documentary. Very good it was. Shoulder to shoulder the way it should be. english or Irish crap doesn't bother me. I have great friends from England lovely people. Even though I grew up around republicans. It only poisons one's mind.

Now what bothers me is. When I see a hungry child or adult. That does my nut in. Because theirs criminals, the worst in society in prisons like holiday camps. Fed 3 or 4 times a day by chefs. Doctors, dentists everyday all free. Education free. Learn a trade free. PlayStations. tvs. and what drugs they want. Does my head in that.
I have to break my arse working for those things.

19 Oct 2018 17:19:12
Good post leahy all though i don't agree on the economics.
I spend at least 1 day a week up north and have lots of friends and colleagues from every background imaginable up there and the same in the uk.
Ive no issue with england at all apart from the fact they have short memories. Their rulers in their history were the saddam hussains of their time. The invaded other ciuntries all over the world.
Of course they have not done it for years because they are more educated etc now but they still are ruling part of ireland in land they stole from the irish people.
In time i'm sure there will be a referendum. Its not the people that live their that are the problem at all. Its what happenex over 100 years ago that i have the issue with.
But the irony of stopping the likes of iraq invading kuwait is not lost on me while they still rule lands they stole like iraq was trying to do.

19 Oct 2018 17:31:23
You're ignorant of prison life. I am surprised you have not committed an offence to access the easy life, but frankly if you ever found yourself inside you sadly wouldn't cope.

19 Oct 2018 18:48:21
Agree to a certain extent, Leahy, though I would guess the thought of having nearly a million Protestants of various degrees of hostility within their borders, might be more of a nuisance than the economics. Does Dublin really want the problems that the UK govt has been trying to deal with for the last 40 odd years? It might be a nice ideal, and I'm sure the Dublin govt is always keen to make the right noises regarding Irish unity, but I fear the practicalities of it might put the wind up them a little.

19 Oct 2018 18:35:36
100 years ago. ow far do you go back, tho? Those friendly Scandinavians were invading Ireland and doing a fair bit of raping and pillaging themselves. Then the Normans in the 1100s. They weren't too nice to the locals either. I don't see to many anti-Danish or anti-French tirades on here.

Most of the time these foreign invaders were invited in by some native chieftan to help him fight another tribe or clan. The natives were also doing a great job of raping and pillaging against each other long before any foreigners arrived.

As for the slave trade that was mentioned, the Spanish and Portuguese were the first Europeans to start that game. Even those cuddly Swedes and Danes were involved. Back before that, the Arab peoples were trading Africans.

My point is, that just because your own country's history has it's low points, it doesn't mean you can't give an opinion on a state in 2018 that has over 50 executions a year, and is still denying women, religious minorities and members of the LGBT community, any semblance of equality.

19 Oct 2018 21:05:40
Dw20 my motto would be don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
I don't fell sorry for anyone that can't cope with prison life. If I put myself in a position to do prison I would have no other choice only deal with. Or I could sit in the cell feeling sorry for myself.
Did you ever hear the story about the man that died in the middle of a wilderness, he didn't die from starvation he died of self pity.

{Ed025's Note - im with you leahy, life should mean life, no parole, no getting your sentence halved for good behavior but doubled if you dont behave, feed them bread and water and lock them up for 23 hours a day...its not supposed to be butlins..

19 Oct 2018 21:32:55
Another thing DW. I grew up in one of the roughest parts of cork, known all over Ireland. I've been in many a place and situation that the ordinary person wouldn't cope with.
I could have took the easy route and did nothing only mess about like some of the boys I grew up with. A few of them not around now. But I chose to work my arse off and get me out of there which I did.
I have 3 girls now and I know they wouldn't be able to cope with growing up there cause it's still as bad now.

19 Oct 2018 21:45:38
ed 025 for president. You got my vote there ed 😀.

{Ed025's Note - i dont do sympathy for scumbags leahy mate..

19 Oct 2018 22:01:02
Either do I ed, make it hard for them.

{Ed025's Note - we must be from a different generation to others leahy,

19 Oct 2018 22:01:02
Either do I ed, make it hard for them.

20 Oct 2018 10:06:18
Yes stevie lots of countries have poor history but the swedes etc don't still hold power. They are gone.

20 Oct 2018 10:04:17
Im with you leahy and ed025. Cut sentence for good behaviour is a joke. Life should mean life and cut the privileges to basic rations. Just enough to survive. No tv no play stations no luxuries cut the costs of prison service and divert that money to help the homeless and struggling.

{Ed025's Note - absolutely ken, the law is an ass and you cant even defend your home home if a burglar breaks in these days...well try telling that to the cricket bat i keep by my bedside..

20 Oct 2018 13:27:18

Firstly I am 70++ years old (very much part of the lock them up and throw away the key brigade)
I am a regular prison visitor privileged to have keys and free access to most of the prison most of the time.

Unlike you I have views based on facts and observance rather than prejudices and Sun/ Mirror/ Mail - you should know how reliable they are from Football experience!
I believe in punishment fitting the Crime. I do not believe in unremitting Vengeance. Punishment is largely achieved by the segregation from friends family and Society.
Access to healthcare is often far more difficult often taking written application that doesn't get a reply for several days let alone appointments. What do you do if you can't write?

Leahy your Chef prepared food is of a standard that I am sure you might well send back if you were eating out - even in a greasy spoon cafe. Play stations do exist but are very much hard to earn, very old, and hard to come by even if you have enough brownie points to have one .
Pool tables exist but I have only seen them in use on a handful of occasions - mainly down to staff shortages (no one to supervise offensive weapons such as balls and cues. )

You fail to appreciate that if you the regime was a strict as you would wish the prison would become unmanageable for staff (whom I assume you would support) .
Much violence in prison is triggered by very minor (to us) things and whilst inexcusable is sometimes understandable.
Take the last summer's heat. You are normally on lock down say 1 day in 3 on a defined rota basis. It becomes 1 in 2 due to staff holidays and training then staff go off sick and your day "out" is cancelled sometimes with no notice after 2 days being banged up sharing a victorian cell designed for one, windows that do not open and only a low level vent in the door opening onto a landing that is boiling hot due to its glass roof. I dislike being on the landings on days like these! I imagine that if livestock were housed in similar conditions you would want the RSPCA to act.
Quite apart from this the more I visit the more I am exercised by injustices within the justice system.

Undoubtably some inmates are innocent some crimes only the “perpetrator” and “victim” know for a fact whether the accused is really guilty (eg was it rape or was consent given? ) .
Joint enterprise – some folk almost certainly were just in the wrong place at the wrong time or in the wrong company, and don’t start me on IPP convictions where a number are stuck in prison many years after the end of sentences that were supposedly only for a matter of months. Then there are the very elderly, those with mental conditions and learning difficulties who, perhaps, should never be there in the first place.

Enough. I respect your opinions Leahy, but please base them on rational fact. Also bear in mind staff who would face far more danger day to day if your regimes were implemented. I guess that neither of you would volunteer to work in a prison . I have seen as few as 3 staff on a wing with 120 prisoners. There has to be some semblance of normal life for that to work at any level.
Club wise we should not descend to Saudi standards in football and certainly not to inhumane standards in prisons. It benefits no one
Rant over – my last contribution on this subject.

20 Oct 2018 16:41:31
I do base them on facts I know people who were and are in prison. And I've heard from them some people who live in basic accommodation who can afford heating. Who live in flats get themselves locked up for the winter. And they come out looking a lot better than before they went in. It's a holiday camp.
I have a brother in law who works in a prison and some stories are unbelievable. And the some people working there bring them in what they want from the outside. Anything they want they can get and that's the biggest prison in Ireland.
It costs an average of 300,000 thousand a year per prisoner for their cushy life behind bars.

12 Oct 2018 13:16:57
It looks like the latest trend appears to be let's blame a combination of either the toxic fans or the owners of the club or both.
I think it's a lot more simple than that. Taking what Shawthing said, every organisation has a golden period and by logic after that period, there is one that isn't so good. To blame anyone in particular for this is a waste of time and energy. No board of a company has the perfect recipe for continued success over time, and no football club has either. The people who run the club aren't somehow gods of football that can do no wrong, they will make mistakes, just like everyone else. Rather than slagging one or all of them off, how about we be appreciative and thank them for the success and good times we have experienced in recent years, and get behind the club and team in the hope that they will pull it back round soon. We haven't been relegated, we haven't finished in the bottom half, and yes, I know 'it's United' but so what, more importantly it's our team. Support it!
The toxic fans that people are looking to land blame on as well, they are just unhappy fans, because they can't stand to see a change in fortunes, but that's not the whole picture. These fans are clearly easily led by the press (who we all know lie through their teeth to make a story more interesting) and pushed into a certain narrative that helps fuel the press even more. It is a vicious circle.
So to anyone looking to blame something, stop! Go hug a 'toxic' and suggest that they stop reading the gutter press and pick up something more soothing, stop looking for someone to blame for what is just life and get behind the team, whoever is in charge and love your club.

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12 Oct 2018 18:12:14
BB. Good post but i disagree with quite a bit of what you say.
Its been 6 years since we have competed to win or mount a serious challenge for the league title.
3 manangers in 2 out and a couple of dozen players through the revolving door.
Companies of our size rarely drop as far as we have from top spot to non challengers for such a sustained period without the board or ceo being questioned.
But you are right football can be cyclical and winning runs to come to an end but we expect to be still competing for top spot.
Its no 1 individuals fault. There is not just 1 problem and there has been lots more than 1 mistake made and lots more than 1 bad decision made.
The business and commercial side of the business is doing well the football side of the business is not.
The football side needs improving and fixing with a long term plan and strategy to be but in place. The money men know that the commercial side can never be maximised until the core product is in good shape.
I can't understand what the delay is in appointing a Dof. I don't understand why we have appointed a manager and given him a contract extention and be seemingly totally not aligned with him in squad requirements .
I don't expect to win all the time but i do expect us to be competing and i expect a manchester united manager and ceo or dof to be aligned the vast majority of the time.

13 Oct 2018 11:47:20
I think the issue with the DOF is a combination of, it's the first time we've done it, so no-one is really sure how to do it right. Who to appoint as well because let's face it, it would appear that most of the current management structure on the football side, don't have that much experience of football. Combine that with the old heads still there in an advisory function don't have any experience of working with a DOF means that they are concerned about appointing someone to a long term post who turns out to be a turkey. You're spot on Ken about challenging for things in the last 6 years, we should have been. I think the main mistake was letting SAF, Gill and SAF backroom staff all go at effectively the same time. There should always be a transition period in most clubs with a little of the old and a little of the new. Some bright spark must have thought we didn't need that. That is the reason the last 6 years has been below expectations. That said, it's done, nothing we can do about that now.

13 Oct 2018 11:47:20
I think the issue with the DOF is a combination of, it's the first time we've done it, so no-one is really sure how to do it right. Who to appoint as well because let's face it, it would appear that most of the current management structure on the football side, don't have that much experience of football. Combine that with the old heads still there in an advisory function don't have any experience of working with a DOF means that they are concerned about appointing someone to a long term post who turns out to be a turkey. You're spot on Ken about challenging for things in the last 6 years, we should have been. I think the main mistake was letting SAF, Gill and SAF backroom staff all go at effectively the same time. There should always be a transition period in most clubs with a little of the old and a little of the new. Some bright spark must have thought we didn't need that. That is the reason the last 6 years has been below expectations. That said, it's done, nothing we can do about that now.

13 Oct 2018 14:53:28
I know mate what's done is done but i think its extraordinary that a business of our size can't make a snr appointment such as Dof for 3 seasons. Its dithering.

10 Oct 2018 23:08:23
Made a bit of a mess of first post! pressed send before finished, not my fault, must be the machine! lol .
Anyway, was saying am very much on the positive side of things although some of present issues make it a bit difficult.
The main reason for posting now was to share some information I was given today regarding the current manager.
It would seem change is imminent and the replacement will be a Frenchman, not Zidane though, it will be a guy who shares his name with fountain pens and a mountain!
No idea if this is true or not but the source is a very senior executive (a football man) at a major club.
Time will tell, but seemingly will be very soon.

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11 Oct 2018 10:11:17
Welcome to the site. So your person itk is talking about Laurent Blanc I take it? Does your itk know if this is temp, permanent? And why would this chap be privy? Does he work at MU?

11 Oct 2018 12:05:52
Fuji Parker? Never heard of him.

11 Oct 2018 17:33:01
More likely to be Rushmore Bic.

11 Oct 2018 18:28:46
Lord biro snowdon?

09 Oct 2018 22:54:39
For the first time in years i feel like we won't make top 4 this year or atleast don't have the squad harmony compared to Chelsea, Tottenham, liverpool and City.

We have a squad capable of being in the top 4 but we don't have the team harmony and too many disruptions within our team.

These issues need to be ironed out quickly or else we are in for a rocky ride.

Agree2 Disagree1

08 Oct 2018 22:26:34
So David De Gea, best goalkeeper in the world, isn't nominated for the ballon d'or, makes sense after winning the golden glove last season and getting into the best World XI a few weeks ago. I laugh at these nominations, gone to absolute s***.

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09 Oct 2018 10:09:44
He was awful in the World Cup mind. Probably had some bearing on their thinking.

09 Oct 2018 10:42:48
Yes he was, but should 5-6 games have an overall bearing on the whole season?

09 Oct 2018 20:46:39
Courtous got the best goal keeper award but wasn't in the best 11.

It's a load of bull.

Dave the save is by far the best there is and we need to renew his contract asap.

10 Oct 2018 09:28:26
I agree Scholes, but that is probably their reasoning - grandest stage of all and didn't perform.

10 Oct 2018 18:07:17
Benzema didn't even in play in the WC 12 days lol.

11 Oct 2018 13:08:29
I'm not saying I agree! Guess I've been watching too much Mindhunter.

08 Oct 2018 13:39:28

Not sure how accurate the reports are, but if Pogba was consulted by Mourinho on tactics during half-time, doesn't that just mean he's getting others to do his job. Also, if Pogba has such an influence, why strip him off the captaincy?

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08 Oct 2018 17:44:28
Can’t see Jose consulting a man who is as ill disciplined on the field as Pogba, not to mention there differences.

08 Oct 2018 02:47:28
Don't think there is an MMA page anymore so just wanted to talk about the Khabib vs McGregor thing. Did you guys watch it? And what did you make of it both during the fight and after fight melee.

I think Khabib backed everything he said and Connor just tapped out and got what he deserved. And about the post fight, I don't understand why so many people, especially media, is offended by Khabibs actions but when McGregor ambushed the fighters in Brooklyn it was OK, when McGregor was hurling abuse and serious racial abuse at not just Khabib but his friends, his family, talking shot about his country his religion it was OK, it was just mind games and promotion. Well rubbish just got real for Mr Tapout.

{Ed001's Note - spot on mate.}

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08 Oct 2018 06:35:02
You can't talk that amount of 'trash' and not expect the consequences.

08 Oct 2018 07:28:50
If it was just about Khabib, OK you can say it's trying to get in the head and animosity and all but the things he did and said about Kabobs team and family and country and all, well something had to happen. I don't think Khabib was right in doing what he did after the fight but it wasn't the worst thing. He attacked a guy who was talking rubbish to him, a fighter non the less not any guy. Also people saying ohh Connor was attacked after fight and all, well look properly even that was started by that scumbag, he took the first shot.

But in all this Khabibs utter dominance has been overshadowed and overlooked. He not just out wrestled him (which was a known thing) he you boxed him and nearly knocked McTapout out. Now he has been truly legitimatized IMO.

{Ed001's Note - I was so glad to see it, I have been saying for years Khabib was the best there is.}

08 Oct 2018 07:53:37
Let's hope he has been humbled after that.

But for khabib there could be greater consequences. Attaching a fighter who was talking crap? Come on? His teammate, taking aim from behind, cowardly also. Could be a tough few months for khabib.

On the fight itself, McGregor was undoubtedly nervous and didn't fight like he has in the past. He actually did quite well on stuffing some takedowns and when on the ground. But when on the feet he was slow and ponderous, looking exactly like a man that hasn't fought and MMA fight in 2 years.

If he gets the rematch I believe he has the ability to make that fight a lot closer.

{Ed001's Note - he could also sue the UFC for huge sums for their condoning racial abuse against him. The UFC needs to be very careful how they handle this, because they were a disgrace.}

08 Oct 2018 08:29:23
Connor looked like he may be was OK on the ground and in the clinches because he was quite frankly cheating, for which he was not even once spoken to. An illegal knee was thrown, on that happens sometimes, but he was hooking onto the cage, pulling the shorts of Khabib, all those rubbishs and Connor got stacked only after he tried to punch Khabibs corner guy (cousin it was I think) . If jumping a cage to attack a guy who was saying nasty things about you, your family and all is going to land him in trouble then I don't think he cares. Khabib always mentions he fights in the Octagon for legacy and honor and not money ( though this does taint his legacy for a short while) . He has always said he makes money in Russia by all the endorsement thing and all. Also if Khabib gets anything more then a payout (I. e monetary fine) then it just proves the biasness of UFC, racism may I say against him. Connor got on a plane with a bunch of hooligans flew all the way to USA to attack a bus full of drained fighters well that in my eyes is a lot worse than what Khabib did. And the "cowardly" guy as you put it was defending his mate. What happened was wrong but put in that situation many would have done what Khabib and his team did. If I were a competent fighter I would have had a lot more fights for a lot less things and so would a lot, it's human nature when somebody attacks your pride again and again and makes fun of it, there's just so much you can take.

Also I think if UFC play it correct, this may just be the moment that creates a ton loads of cash for them for a long time. And Khabib if presented the right way will be the pinnacle of the sport until someone knocks him off the perch.

08 Oct 2018 20:52:30
You reckon that washes ed?

I'm not worried about how the UFC handle it ed, they've shown they only care about the green. It's the commission and law enforcement that khabib needs to worry about. Nevada have withheld the purse, I'm sure he will get it but it might take some time. There will be heavy fines to be given out. Khabibs dad already has issues regarding visas. It could be bad news for khabib, I'm sure the UFC will fight so that he is not on the banned list.

Despite the way they handled things, they might be khabibs best chance at not being banned from entering the US again.

I agree deeps, this is hug Box Office for the UFC now. This has a rematch written all over it.

When strike force had their Diaz incident, it propelled the promotions and the Diazs onto a world stage.

UFC only care about that, they have a 4 billion dollar price tag hanging over them.

{Ed001's Note - why would he care about entering a country that thinks it is ok to racially abuse him? If he has any sense he won't go back there.}

09 Oct 2018 07:33:48
Because he just earned 2 million dollars for a fight, I'd imagine that's a pretty good reason.

If he didn't want to go back, then why did he publicly apologise to the Nevada commission?

{Ed001's Note - he publicly apologised because he is a nice guy who knew he should not have allowed himself to be goaded into reacting like he did. It was not the way he conducts himself and he was ashamed of it. You know he doesn't need the money right? He is a national hero at home and can literally name his fee for anything he does. He chooses not to ask much because money is not important to him.}

09 Oct 2018 08:27:01
The fight went exactly as I thought. Khabib was too much for him. Conor was fighting not to lose. Not goung for the win. Khabib rocking him with the right hand put even more doubt in Conors head. It was a matter of time after that.
Everything outside of the fight, both before and after, was a disgrace. Both fighters should lose their purses. Send a message.
If a rematch happens it would be a lot closer in my opinion. But Khabib is the best out there atm. Ferguson is waiting though.

09 Oct 2018 13:41:12
I think as a fighter Connor is somewhat overrated - he's an incredible hype machine but Khabib is far superior. I agree with Ed that its unfortunate that Khabib was goaded and other than in this fight (before the fight too to be fair) carries himself a lot better.

07 Oct 2018 14:55:42

Putting the downers on straight away but Chelsea, Juve twice, Everton, Bournemouth and City in our next 6 matches.

Fantastic fantastic result in the end today but what happened at the start was again a farce.

Are we going to start these games with pogba matic and smalling as our back 3, I don't think it likely.

Mata for me has to play whatever we go with, I questioned today on here why he was not in the team this season and how he may be the key to unlocking Sanchez, Mata is a fantastic little player and is signifies all that is good about a footballer for me, had a big smile on my face watching his interview after.

I am a backer of Mourinho. I have been however I am fed up of him playing 2 big slow defensive midfielders.

It is clear now we need to play 3 at the back, imo for 3 reasons, a) the rbs we have are not good enough to play fb, b) any pairing of our 2 cbs are not good enough, c) if we don't play with 3 at the back we need to play 2 of these big lumbering dms.

Who do we play. I'm afraid rather than what we seen in the 2nd half tonight we will see Matic/ Mctominay in midfield again and Mata once more on the bench.

I had started to wonder if we had the quality but the 2nd half proves we do so although I've been in Joses corner and still am if we go back to this nonsense my patience will not last Much longer.

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07 Oct 2018 16:12:53

Ross. Our midfield is too slow and ponderous and is not in the same league as the top teams. But when he plays Matic and Mctominay or matic and fellaini as holding midfielders, our game grinds to a halt.

I'm watching Chelsea, new manager, bought a fantastic holding midfielder, jorginho, moved Kante to the middle to inject energy and revitalized Barkley. They are playing the best football in the PL at present. I am seriously worried for our lot when we play them, if we try to defend with 11, we'll be thrashed.

I am so annoyed that the club has wasted 6 years on moyes, lvg and Mourinho and we're nowhere near good enough. Trust me, the next few matches are going to show how far behind we are.

07 Oct 2018 19:12:31

Agree schmid.

I have just posted below on DLIB thread about defensive and MF options.

DLIB suggests matic as a CB which i think is a brilliant move. That then frees up a space for a MF player who might notmally be benched.

07 Oct 2018 19:17:42

We looked pretty good second half yesterday AAA. We got some movement into the team, and we created some good team play with movement off the ball.

What would be a good result from those games? Would people be happy with 4 wins and 2 draws from those fixtures? I would be very happy with that, so long as the togetherness of the team develops further. If we win/ draw with Juve and then win/ draw with City and Chelsea (doesn't really matter who we draw with) then that would be a good run considering the pressure we are under.

07 Oct 2018 16:46:53

I'd set the team like this for the next few games.

Keeper, obviously de Gea.

A back 3 of Bailly, Smalling and Libdelof. Bailly to attack everything, Smalling to mop up an Lindelof to build out from the back.

Shaw and Dalot as wingbacks.

Midfield 3 of Pogba, Herrera and Mata. We saw what Mata and Pogba did 2nd half.

Sanchez in s central role.

Martial as the striker.

Swap in Matic, Fred, Rashford as needed or in different games.

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07 Oct 2018 17:58:54

I think a valuable lesson can be learnt from yesterday's performance. We must approach future games especially at Old Trafford with courage and bravery.

Since SAF retired we have played without risk. We have paid too much attention to the opposition rather than concentrating on our own strengths. We have retreated behind the ball applying the mantra safety in numbers but this has allowed players to pass responsibility and allow others to do their job. Yesterday's second half performance was a throw back to the good old days. Marauding attacks, committing men forward, taking risks but more importantly playing without fear. We got hit on the counter a few times and against better teams we might have got caught out but it was a case of "lads it's Newcastle" type approach to the second half.

I actually thought Pogba's second half performance was immense. Maybe for the first time in a Utd shirt he took responsibility and dictated our play. He demanded the ball off the defence and had players in front of him. He threaded passes into Mata and got forward to back up play. He switched play and made runs into the box. He drove forward from midfield when space opened up in front of him. He was outstanding and demonstrated what a special player he can be.

I know Matic has come in for criticism but I thought he played well at CB. He's calm and composed on the ball and carried it forward intelligently into midfield. Jose has experimented with his CB pairings but I think it's time to move Matic into the back 4. He has the height and physicality to cope with the demands of the position and he's good on the ball. He's intelligent and positionally astute and might just give us the composure and experience we need. He's become slow and ponderous in midfield and maybe lacks the energy and intensity we need to press the ball.

I thought Mata was excellent and linked everything together. He pulled the strings further forward allowing Pogba the time to join the attacks from deep.

I think it's time Jose ditched his giants and moved towards more diminutive, technical players with a emphasis on fluidity and mobility. Lukaku's movement has been no existent and his hold up play even worse.

This would be my team moving forward (4-3-3) De Gea, Dalot, Smalling, Matic, Shaw, Pogba, Fred, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Sanchez.

I would give Pogba the responsibility of dictating the play from deep but with licence to run forward and join attacks. Our current approach is not working and we need to try something new. We may be vulnerable against the better teams but Liverpool, City, Chelsea don't change their approach why should we. Let's go toe to toe and find out how good our players really are. No more excuses, no more fear if we lose to the better team so be it.

07 Oct 2018 18:59:15

DLIB that first paragraph sums up how we approach most home games.

However, sometimes we need to approach a gamr carefully depending on league position time of year and what other cups we r in etc.

Also yesterday showed how certain players who we sometimes want rid of - can actually make a difference in a game. Example mata. I love the guy and want him to stay BUT i understand y some want him gone because he doesn't have a positive impact against all teams.

Admittedly only seen MOTD but shaw and martial in second half looked great too.

All in all a typically no nonsense sat game for us actually highlighted aspects of our game play that i didn't expect.

07 Oct 2018 20:30:36
Mort I agree with that team apart from mata i'd go with fred and I think matic could be a really good cb he's got great positional sense I wouldn't be fussed whos place he took probs smalling but other than that good team.

07 Oct 2018 14:58:01
When mourinho goes we need a total restructure of our club from top to bottom in 6 steps

Step 1 sack mourinho and his staff tho keep Carrick and McKenna

Step 2 move Woodward to the business side of club

Step 3 hire a director of football

Step 4 hire a young hungry manager who plays a pressing game modern day entertaining football

Step 5 sign the players who best suit the new managers philosophy instead of buying galacticos

Step 6 get rid of the dead wood smalling jones darmian feillini young mctominay even matic to slow and get the young ones in the squad if their good enough get them in the squad .

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07 Oct 2018 15:28:41
Rumour has it Woodward couldn't wait to be in charge of the football side and doesn't want to give it up.


Manchester United Rumours Other Posts 2

Manchester United Rumours Other Posts 3


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