Manchester United Banter Archive December 07 2018

07 Dec 2018 18:32:04
Hi all,
Thanks to the Eds as always.

I thought José proved a point against Arsenal and is now realising what his better options are moving forwards. A front 3 of Rashford, Martial and Lingard was way better than anything else I've seen from us this season. Jose then played Lukaku and Pogba late on who should have been fresh but were completely static. It was also brilliant to see Bailey back and in a back 3 he looks even better.

Hopefully this now kick starts a decent run for us with some more fluid, active performances.

07 Dec 2018 19:52:32
I agree, but bringing on Fellaini to play right wing was 5X more disruptive to our attacking play than Pogba.

07 Dec 2018 23:14:05
I’m not on the Fellaini criticism bus, Nathaniel. At least he does what you’d expect and he has had an impact for us over the past two years. Lukaku and Pogba need to stay out of the first 11 for me and perhaps even the squad. Front 3 for the next few games needs to be the 3 I’ve mentioned.

08 Dec 2018 06:05:09
KingGiggsy I don't think we are going to see the 3 in front you want for much long as our great leader thinks unlike sterling lingard and rashford can't improve on their finishing as they are not good enough. Then people wonder why players don't perform well under him, some really motivating lines there, nothing gets the best out of your player as publicily calling him not good enough even after a good performance.

08 Dec 2018 11:50:24
He has played rashford more than any other player forward over last 18 months csm.

08 Dec 2018 12:04:31
Where did I say he isn't playing rash enough ken, what i posted are his own statements made pre fulham game where he was asked after he talked about lack of goals from utd whether sterling is a good example of improvement that can be made in one's finishing for rashford and lingard and his response was its not about the hard work but about having the natural quality, if that isn't manager calling his 2 players who are working hard for him not good enough then i don't know what is.

08 Dec 2018 14:01:11
Do you think longard and rashford have the same natural ability as sterling?
I don't think they do. I would even say the 2 players in question think they do.
Their records suggest they don't.
They are different sort of players rash is inconsistent but that's natural for a young player. Sterling was more inconsistent too when at the same age.
Jessie has not got 50% of sterlings natural god given ability but has other very good attributes.
I don't see what your point is. Not everybody is a snowflake.
Sterling was heavily criticised by pep in the early days and was for sale as per 002 but showed good character kept quiet and improved.
He now delivers weekly. Rash will do the same if he works hard and listens to his coaches.

08 Dec 2018 14:29:10
Hands up how many of us laughed when City bought Sterling.

08 Dec 2018 17:14:14
Ken you are seriously saying that sterling was somehow a genius finisher that poor rashford and lingard can't ever hope to emulate. Sterling wasn't anywhere near as good a finisher and the question wasn't on ability it was a straight forward question whether rashford and lingard can learn from sterling that with hardwork you can improve your finishing, sterling was rubbishty finisher if you and nowhere near as good as he is today, but sadly mou worshippers can't see anything beyond all hail the God Emperor and anything contrary to that is a strict no.

Also please show me where Guardiola had as many digs at sterling or any city player for that matter as Mourinho has had at ours.

07 Dec 2018 09:14:30
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Burnley v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective

07 Dec 2018 08:30:13
"There are things that I cannot get from them, and I cannot say much more than this"- Jose Mourinho, Dec 2018.

This is a direct quote from our manager talking about our current results.

Is he admitting that he cannot motivate the players to give their all?

07 Dec 2018 08:44:14
Or that their ability is at their limit.

07 Dec 2018 08:54:09
That's one interpretation. Most definitely yours.

Could also mean he believes that they haven't got the quality to give more.

Either way, many of the players in the squad have been an embarrassment with their performances.

07 Dec 2018 09:50:50
It can be interpreted in a couple of different ways. Either he can't get the players to give their all, or that he doesn't think the players are good enough. Either way I think it's an interesting thing to say publicly. How would you react if that was said about you? I'm not sure what he thinks he is going to get from saying comments like these.

Personally I think its him insinuating that the players lack heart, fight and desire or at least maybe he can't get that from them. Which is in line with his previous comments.

07 Dec 2018 09:52:35
So, Jose is either saying he can’t get the best from the squad, or throwing his players under the bus again by saying they’re not good enough, again.

Yawn, it’s tiresome seeing the manager focusing on protecting his reputation, rather than trying to learn from his own mistakes and turn things around.

07 Dec 2018 10:22:55
Shappy did he not say just before that he couldn't fault the spirit etc, I don't have the quote. I think he was talking about the quality of some players. I think players like rojo and darmian, who were probably told they could leave in the summer deserve a lot of credit for how the performed on Wednesday. Particularly Darmian who comes across as a top pro.

07 Dec 2018 10:45:02
Caolan your wasting your time mate. Just shappy pushing his agenda again and again and again.
He feels very passionately that jose is useless and feels the need to tell everybody that every day in a different way.
The posts are better than counting sheep if you can't get asleep and more repetitive than uk gold and less accurate than lukaku on a good day😂.

07 Dec 2018 11:19:55
Its a combination. Some have the attitude but not enough talent whereas those with the talent don't have enough attitude.

07 Dec 2018 12:11:00
So players like pogba martial etc haven't got the ability to be higher than 8th .

People thought Jose was a born winner etc etc . Unfourtantlty that's clearly not the case, time to move on.

07 Dec 2018 13:34:54
Jred there is no doubting that we are underperforming. Martial has been excellent recently and has improved his work rate massively. This to me shows that he has got the right attitude (something I often criticised him for) for example when he came off against arsenal he was fighting for the ball, not something anyone would associate with his game. Now imagine Pogba and Lukaku, put in half the work of players like rashford, lingard and Herrera? No doubting their ability, tremendous talents, both Pogba and Lukaku should be the spine of this team for years to come.

For me if pogba had the urgency and determination that herrera has, then he would be unplayble nearlt every week. Imagine if Lukaku worked as hard off the ball as lingard and rashford with his movement, he would and should be scoring loads. I think the pair of them can be so important for us, and could fire us up the table, but they're both capable of so much more, and I think a bit more fight, especially when in poor form would make a massive difference.

Its impacted martial's performances for the better. Maybe our other talented stars need to do the same. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Jose, players included, I don't think there has been enough fight, passion and determination from certain players. Maybe the motivation of playing for United isn't enough for some, I don't know.

I do think that you are right Jred that it may be time for Jose to move on, but I think we are finding out a lot about certain indiviudals in the squad and whether or not they have the character to play at the biggest club in the world.

07 Dec 2018 13:49:05
Caolan
A bit like hazard and co before Jose got sacked at Chelsea.
Jose comments about Fred about sum up were we are .
We can't play Fred because we need to be solid at the back yet every top team defends from the front defends by controlling possession in the middle .
Jose couldn't or wouldn't play a Cm with the 2 silvas in it like pep, wouldn't give his strikers the licence to play like klipperty, he would need an SAS squad playing defence to be that brave .
Martial is a good example everyone wanted rid told me time and again he should get shot . Turns out he is a decent player same people have just moved on to the next target .

Imagine if we had a manager who could get the best out of the players he had . People overcomplicant things make excuses but the truth is, good managers doing a good job get the best out of there players the best out of there squad . When they do they get the plaudits when they don't they get the sack .

07 Dec 2018 14:46:06
100% get your point Jred. However, my post is more a gripe with certain players. In fact something which irks me in modern football if I am honest. Players who decide not to give everything etc. When at the end of the day there is no substitute for working hard.
In our scenario I think we have a split dressing room, some behind the manager, others not. I can't imagine SAF got on with all his players over the years, but they still gave absolutely everything for the club. Surely playing at OT should not require any greater motivation.

Whilst I agree on the style of play, let's look at the players Klopp and pep have brought in. Klopp needed a top centre half and it was made sure he got one, he got his man in keita and the keeper he wanted in Alisson. By no means am I saying Jose hasn't been backed as he has spent a lot and I feel he WAS backed, but Pep got to correct his poor signings. If jose is still here in January we will get a good indicator of whether or not he may be here next season.

I guess what I am saying here is, there are a few issues at this club, not all down to just Jose. I think that is a fair statement.

07 Dec 2018 15:11:40
Caolan
Salah has developed in to one of the best players in the world.
Van dyke in to one of the best defenders in Europe.
Mane, frimino and salah were probably the best front line in Europe.
Sterling is one of the best players in the epl got dogs abuse, stones part of the best defence in Europe got dogs abuse delph looks a good player .
2 managers doing a good job and getting plaudits. Rightly so

There are issues at every club but a major one at United is the manager .

At the moment he is doing a poor job especially compared to pep klopp sarri poch emery . In fact even Howe Silva and a couple of others .

07 Dec 2018 15:33:46
Lollllll.

07 Dec 2018 15:50:45
He's right though shappy. Those players are not doing their utmost for the club and he's right to call them out on it.

Jred, they are more than capable ability wise to be doing better than 8th, but it seems as though they lack certain internal qualities to do that.

Regardless of who the manager is, maximum effort is the minimum a person over 100k+ should be expected to give. For the club and for the fans.

07 Dec 2018 15:58:24
Jred

Van Djik was already one of the best centre halves just needed a bigger platform. Salah was always a highly regarded player, especially from his days at Basle. Klopp has improved liverpool, no doubt about it. But players have not developed under him. Players have not developed under Pep.

Jose is not doing a brilliant job, I am not disputing that. But a bigger issue in my opinion, is players being paid an obsence amount, not giving a damn about the fans and not applying themselves. Yes Jose is not doing great but you can't say these players are giving everything to help improve. Because if pogba, sanchez and lukaku had half the work rate of herrera lingard and rashford we would be just fine.


Sir Alex used to say you could win a game if no more than 3 players were having an off day. Unfortunatley for us we have some overpaid pre madonna's who through the arms in the air when they lose the ball rather than work back for their team.


Players are as much to blame as the manager in a lot of instances. But it's always easier to blame one person rather than a large group. Manchester United is not a quick fix and everything won't be solved by just getting rid of another manger. Players need to go, and the manager does too. But let's not kid ourselves and say the players haven't been rubbish.

07 Dec 2018 16:18:01
But players have not developed under him. Players have not developed under Pep caolan
I couldn't disagree more and you will find most football fans outside this page will feel the same .

Salah was highly regarded at Basel? Come on pal was bailly not highly regarded pogba Sanchez.

It is a managers job to get the best out of his players at the moment he is getting the best out of very few of them .
Unlike a lot of other managers .

Pep and klipperty are doing a great job Jose isn't.
By the way a lot of players are underperforming in an underpinning team .

What did you think of Jose 3rd year at Chelsea? Sometimes it stops working and it's time to move on .

You say players need to go, would you of said that about martial a few month ago .
If you could get a manager that could get the best out of
Pogba martial Sanchez lukaku Fred matic ddg Shaw lindelof bailly to name but a few . Do you think we could play attractive football and be higher than 8th.

07 Dec 2018 19:15:16
Jred you’re taking my posts as if I’m saying Mourinho isn’t the problem here. If you looks back you’ll see me agree that we need a change. But you can’t say the players don’t deserve some criticism, because that would just be ridiculous.

07 Dec 2018 00:32:57
An article in one of our daily papers questions why there is a lack of fan fury regarding our current malaise.

I felt like directing them to Jaime on the Live Chat 😁.

07 Dec 2018 08:45:10
One word; APATHY.

07 Dec 2018 10:01:30
In fairness, I say Jamie would probably throw the cup at your head if you didn’t make the tea exactly how he likes it.

07 Dec 2018 12:11:26
99
😂😂😂.