26 Oct 2020 23:28:28
With VdB back in the headlines but not for the right reasons just where does he fit into this Utd team?

It seems a shameful waste of talent to see such a young and intelligent footballer consigned to the bench and whilst Ole may have some mitigation he's hardly given the kid a chance.

I get the impression Ole principally sees him as a No10 and that's where he's operated in both League Cup games and his substitute appearances. Unfortunately he's simply not going to oust Fernandes from that position (nor should he) and Ole has shown little appetite to play either player deeper as part of the midfield pivot. His role in the squad at the moment does appear to be limited to a back up option for Fernandes as evidenced by his lack of game time.

Ole reverted to his preferred 4-2-3-1 formation against Chelsea and I just don't see him deviating from this system too often which beggars the question where does this leave VdB or even Paul Pogba?!

Pogba divides opinion, his inconsistency and attitude has angered large swathes of the fan base and with his contract running down not many will argue with Ole's decision to leave him out of the team. Having said that his route back into the starting 11 appears simpler than that of VdB. If Pogba can replicate the endeavour, energy, industry and selflessness of Fred or Mctominay, play for the team and be more positionally disciplined then his greater talent and ability on the ball will open the door for his reintroduction back into the first team.

If Ole doesn't shift his thinking and view VdB as anything other than a No10 than his game time will be restricted to domestic Cup competitions and the odd cameo appearance off the bench.

In my opinion I see no reason why VdB couldn't operate from the right similar to the role performed by Mata in recent games. Playing just inside in the pockets of space off the flank, linking with Fernandes and making intelligent runs into the box might just be a way of getting him into the starting 11.

VdB is a very mobile, intelligent, hardworking player and could be a real asset in that position operating in areas where he is very hard to pick up and running off the ball. In fact Jessie Lingard performed a similar role to great effect during Ole's initial winning run and I think VdB can bring us something different to the raw pace and power offered by Rashford on the opposite flank. He would bring a subtle quality and intelligence to our play with his movement off the ball comparable to that of Lingard yet with better end product.

I'd like to see Ole try harder to integrate him into the side and if Ole won't change the system or formation to accommodate another attacking midfielder than maybe a slight change in position for VdB could offer him more game time.

1.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 06:57:17
DLIB

Ole would have to move away from 2 holding midfield players in his preferred formation. As Neville says Pep coached it into his City team, but would Ole move away from the safety first of two screening his defence?

2.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 07:24:50
The question is why did we buy him and who made that decision?

3.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 08:14:24
Why can't he just be taking time to settle in to a new team and league, like bernanrdo silva or naby keita/ andy robertson did?

Red man is spot on that a transition from a double pivot to a single pivot would be helpful in fitting two attacking midfielders in the lineup with a front 3.

The problem is we don't have anyone in the team to do that role.

Matic as a single holding mid would soon get run ragged and be unable to cover the ground to shield the back 4.

Fred can cover the ground definitely and win the ball back but on the ball he is a liability as he needs 4/ 5 touches to control the ball and he looks like he's being electrocuted every time he receives the ball, hardly prime pirlo when it comes to on the ball side of things.

Mctominay just can't see the passes required to play that deeper role, he hasn't got it in his locker, would end up being too much sideways and backwards from him.

4.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 08:23:40
As much as I would love to see Donny VdB starting more regularly, I don't think this media scrutiny and calls from the fans would help.

It might be something as simple as allowing him to adapt to new surroundings and a new league.

Personally, I do agree with the point that we should start him with Bruno and they could both play the "8" role with one defensive midfielder shielding the defence a la Fernandinho in previous City squads.

I would have liked to see OGS use that system when we were chasing the win against Newcastle.

But like few others have suggested, the best way of having Bruno, Donny and Pogba (if he shows a bit more commitment) would be the diamond. Telles could provide the width and delivery from the wide areas which we will be lacking on the right side. This system would also negate the adverse effect of not having natural wingers and at the same time push the strikers to play better as there will be at least 4 of them vying for the two spots. Win-win if you ask me.

I would like to hear who you might choose as the deepest midfielder (or a DM) either in this system or the 4-3-3 with two "8s". My choice would be McTominay.

5.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 08:28:26
Spot on, DSG. None of the defensive midfielders that we have can play the role in a completely effective manner with each of them having at least one shortcoming which could go against them.

6.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 08:35:04
I'm all for the two eights and a single pivot. I think you can choose any two from Mata, vdb, Bruno and (can't t believe I'm writing this) Pogcrap.

Maybe we can play three centre backs with the single pivot to offer more protection? My choice for the pivot is Matic because of his forward passing.

However we get vdb on the pitch it's got to be an improvement on James.

7.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 09:07:08
I remember reading somewhere that the club have put DvdB on a training program to improve his core strength. They did something similar with Fred.

I would imagine the thinking might be that Donny lacks the physical strength for the heart of midfield in the EPL. So they are trying to build up his core strength in the meantime they will play him further forward in the No.10 role or as a nominal wide player where physical strength isn't such an important trait. I was told that Bruno hasn't been played deeper than No.10 because of fears that he is too easily dispossessed. Even though most of his previous managers agree that he works better when played deeper and allowed to roam forward.

How true this is I don't know. Just some speculation based off of a few snippets of information.

He might just take a little time to settle, either personally or tactically into the team. Ajax have a very specific way of playing, which isn't closely associated with how we play. There is a big step up in pace, power, quality and tempo when playing in the EPL as opposed to the Eredivisie. While as pointed out above many players have taken a while to adapt to their new teams and then gone on to excel. I just think more is made of it with us because we are Manchester United and we sell more newspapers and garner more clicks.

Donny was one of the players I really wanted us to sign in the summer and I am made up we got him. I just think we need a little patience.

{Ed002's Note - There is a push to try and get him out and to a better club - but the club who has been spoken to have other targets now.}

8.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 09:37:39
That's amazing news Ed002. So nothing to do with settling or improving strength, just Solksjaer doesn't know what to do with him.

{Ed002's Note - I didn't mention Solksjaer but the issue is (again) there is no clear plan on the way forward. The lack of direction at a footballing level makes life difficult for some players, and indeed the coach.}

9.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 09:54:57
So if I am reading that correctly 002 DvdB's team are already looking to move him on to another club a few months after signing for us? Obviously, that is pretty damning for the club but also surely shows his team to also be pretty flippant in their decision making?

{Ed002's Note - Donny van de Beek has been offered to Real Madrid and will be offered to Barcelona due to a lack of a plan or direction at MU. But both clubs have moved on and unless Manchester United would accept a long-term payment plan there would not be the spare money to buy him. If Pogba leaves there will be space - but MU seem intent on holding him hostage. I would not expect DvdB to move.}

10.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 10:45:43
The situation with Van De Beek is ridiculous. The guy is an outstanding player and he has shown so for Ajax across the last couple of seasons. Even in the very brief glimpses we've seen of him for United, it's clear his movement off the ball and link play is far superior to the vast majority of our squad. It's a crime that players like Fred are in the side ahead of him.

He may be a different type of midfielder than Matic, Fred, McTominay and Pogba but in my opinion he offers more than any of them.

11.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 11:14:16
To be honest it was mentioned on here before he signed that he didn't really fit in .
Many many people disagreed.
Decent player, decent signing adds depth.
if he has spat the dummy out after 5 games tho that has to raise questions about his attitude.
Young lad moving to a different league etc and already causing issues. Ed1 made some good points about being patient the other day.

{Ed001's Note - yeah but he should have some kind of hope given him by the coach. He was signed because he was led to believe he would play, only to find that he is actually been bought as a back up to someone the coach will never drop.}

12.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 11:19:09
I feel we have a recruitment dilemma here, once more.

I can see Donny play the Mata role to great effect, linking with Bruno and arriving in the box to complement Martial/ Cavani.

Unfortunately we only have competent wingers on the left flank, an attacking left back while we have a strong defensive right back.
It would be best to have an attacking fullback behind Donny/ Mata to provide width whenever they move infield or up to link play or try to finish the move.

So having a strong defensive left back and an attacking right back would go great with Donny/ Mata on the right and Rashford on the left.

Or having Telles on the left behind Donny (even better as he’s right footed) and a strong winger on the right to provide width there, while Aaron holds the back together with our CBs would be a fine attacking system in my eyes.

Unfortunately we only have strong attackers on the left hand side, so it doesn’t add up.

Possibly I simply don’t have a clue and the recruitment actually had a plan as it is and I simply don’t see it.

{Ed002's Note - Mata has played the majority of his games for MU as a RW and can also play as an AM - but that is the role of Fernandes. DvdB is a very, very capable CM player and that is where he should be played. The problem is that the club needed to move Pogba on but they didn't. They should have added a more versatile player for the left - Grealish was on interest but the amateurs spent the summer stumbling around making fools of themselves. There needs to be some significant changes - but playing DvdB out of position is not a solution. The club should be building around him and looking to bring players through.}

13.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 11:23:34
Ed1 he needs to take his chance when it comes .
Hows he been doing in training?

{Ed001's Note - well by all accounts.}

14.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 11:52:13
He won't be the first player not to walk straight into the first team after a transfer.
He has only started 3 of Holland last 6 games . don't forget he also went 7 month without kicking a ball.

{Ed001's Note - yes but when he was signed he was assured there was a place in the team if he did well. Now he has realised there is no place in the team for him no matter what he does as Bruno won't be dropped and Pogba won't be leaving any time soon.}

15.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:02:46
Agreed Ed002. The guy is obviously a quality footballer who should be starting a significant amount of games for us. Solksjaer's job is to work out how to best utilise the strengths of his squad on the pitch; something he is failing at week after week.

When we see James playing ahead of DvB then Solksjaer is either playing the wrong tactics/ formations or picking the wrong players or both.

If DvB is playing regularly then development plans are irrelevant.

16.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:03:26
Ed pogba hasn't been starting .
are you saying vdb he has now been told there is no place in the team for him, no matter how well he plays.

Surly the club will give him time to adjust to the league team etc before making a decision like that .

{Ed002's Note - I am not saying anything of the sort.}

17.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:09:39
Ed002 - Do you know how the Club view VdB and what role they want him to play?

Ole has shown absolutely no inclination to play him in a deeper midfield role as an alternative to Pogba and he's simply not going to play ahead of Fernandes at No10 however that's where he's lined up in the League Cup and his cameos from the bench.

It would appear to me that Ole sees him as a No10 and if that's the case he isn't going to play much?!

Could there be some truth in the rumours that they want him to bulk up so he can cope better with the physicality of the league and he will eventually play deeper as part of the double pivot?

{Ed002's Note - The club typically do not have a plan for individual players. As his agent has made clear the player wants to do well and will continue to work hard at Manchester United - but as I have explained he is keeping his options open. Playing him out of position or getting him fat will not help.

The club really need to address the bigger issues it has.}

18.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:22:49
I'm not sure he walks into the madrid or barce first team either.

{Ed001's Note - really? Have you not seen them this season then?}

19.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:25:47
Thanks Ed002 I fully agree playing him out of position isn't an ideal solution and I don't
prescribe to the idea that he needs to bulk to play deeper.

I was merely speculating where he might play if Ole doesn't fancy him in a deeper role and he obviously won't play ahead of Fernandes on a regular basis.

It looks like he'll have to be patient and take his chance when it comes.

Thanks for your reply.

20.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:19:15
Ed i was referring to ed 1 saying
" now he has realised there is no place in the team for him no matter what he does as Bruno won't be dropped and Pogba won't be leaving any time so"

I personally think the club should give him time to adjust to the league team etc before making a decision like that.
I said in the summer I'm not sure where he fits into the first 11 but he does add depth .

21.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:46:56
Jred, I would imagine he would walk into Barcelona's midfield atm. Being schooled at Ajax he would be a good fit stylistically and long term it would be him De Jong and one other as first choice midfield. At Real Madrid he could be seen as a long term replacement for Modric, while Kroos isn't getting any younger.

At United its clear what needs to happen, Pogba needs to be moved on, in January ideally, but if not then next summer. In the meantime Pogba should be an impact sub player. Have Bruno as first choice No.10 and have Fred and McTominay in the double axis in tough games, with DvdB as first choice in the others.

The thing with Donny is that he is a clever player, he reads the game and appreciates space better than any player we have bar maybe Mata. He is the sort of midfielder who can make a midfield "click". He makes space and passing options for others and suddenly the game looks very easy. The Manchester United player I would most liken him to would be Paul Scholes. While Donny has a long way to go to reach that level, while he doesn't have the same passing range or quite the same crispness of touch, he has a similar appreciation for space, he can be the creator and facilitate others or he can be the player ghosting in and scoring the goals himself. While at this stage of his career he is more suited to playing slightly higher up the pitch he might end up much deeper towards the end of his career.

Donny and Bruno should be the players we build our midfield around, and if we can and we get it right we will have a top class midfield for the first time in a long time.

22.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:37:57
Ed I sure have but who do you think he would walk in infront of in the system both teams play?
He is a decent player but i'm not sure he just walks into either of them teams . Even if there not playing well.
He doesn't walk in the Dutch team and their not pulling trees up at the moment.

{Ed001's Note - Coutinho. As for the Dutch team that is an irrelevance, they have a lot of midfield players to choose from.}

23.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:53:21
Coutinho has struggled been playing in a bit of a wide position of late . VDB wouldn't start in a 10 position imo not with messi about . i'm not sure where he walk into the madrid team either.
But each to their own.

24.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 12:58:51
Shappy whos place would he take in the barcelona team . Would he play as a 10?

25.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 13:00:05
It’s shocking that any club but particularly a club such as United can fumble around so blindly (or blithely? ) with a player of this quality. Pogba wants out, let him go. Take the financial if needs must but just move on.
Oh and get a DoF in!

26.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 13:16:49
Surely all 3 players could fit in the midfield especially as he's better/ more suited to a cm role? Either 41212 or a 3412, to me its glaringly obvious that they are our 2 best formations with our squad. No natural wingers apart from Dan James who's just not good enough! These formations are also easily adaptable in game and provide strong options from the bench in all areas.

As proven with psg 3 at the back is a good system for us in the big games against the so called lesser teams 1 holding midfielder should be adequate.

27.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 13:23:28
Derby
Maybe they will, we are only 5 league into the season.

28.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 14:13:46
DVB is a player for total football. A player with intelligent runs, quick 1-2, quick passes and fits in a team that presses all over the place rather than marking. In Oles system with two players at double pivot sitting in front of the defence unfortunately he has no place. But we must build the team around him in a 4-3-3 with DVB and Bruno as 8 and a holding like Fernadinho sitting behind them. When i see our midfield i think oh that a midfiled for Pep, but unfortunately Ole isn't Pep and is far more defencive minded.

29.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 14:17:27
I bet DvB and Bruno could play as a fantastic double pivot. Bruno has the mobility, work rate and tenacity of fred and mctominany along with the added skill and talent. Also, who's to say that DvB can't do all the ugly stuff in a deeper midfield role. He could be a massive upgrade on what we have already. Personally I'd stick Matic behind the two of them and that would give the best balance but hey ho.

30.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 14:21:02
Guys listen to the press conference.
Everything is put to bed.
The club is just ensuring he settles into a new environment and Ole has confirmed his time will come soon.

31.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 14:36:42
It really sad how the coaching staff and all people involved at utd can't see the abilities DvB have. There is no one capable of playing as CM at utd than him. Unfortunately he will spend much of time at the bench.

Thanks Ed002 and Ed001 for much detailed responses.

32.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 15:37:49
"When players come into a new league, to a new team, it's always going to be a time that he adapts. When he's played he plays really well. It says a lot about our depth and quality in the squad, that we don't have to use him every single game because we have other players as well.
Donny is going to play a big, big part this year. At the moment I realise the topic is Donny van de Beek, it's nice for some players or commentators to have a little go. I know you're short for time on tele and have to put your point across quickly, but you have to know you don't have to start the first three games to be a very important member of the squad. Ole .

We r only 5 league games into the season.

33.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 15:39:25
There's no time to panic for Donny, people can be so quick to come to an assumption that he's not played. Give him time, let him settle and let him concentrate on his season.
Mctom.

34.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 17:59:23
Absolutely embarrassing as a club with some of our decisions. We buy a class player that's doing well in training and should be one of the key players to build a team around but instead lied to him and play a uninterested, less talented Pogba ahead of him, ametuers on every level it seems.

35.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 18:29:33
Sorry ed, why don't you believe that solskjaer would drop pogba in favour of DVDB?

{Ed001's Note - the club are hanging onto him despite him wanting to go, you don't do that unless you intend to play him.}

36.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 19:06:22
You could argue you don't buy a player unless you jntend to play him .
We will see by the end of the season how much he plays . But I suspect he will do OK.
As long as he adapts to the league etc.

37.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 19:26:20
Thanks for the info ed001 and ed002. But despite you guys having a bit of inside info on what DVB was told, it's mad that some on the site like to dispute it 🙄.

38.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 19:43:11
Angle
It will be intersting to see if DVB breaks into the team then this season . In light of what you seem to think the eds have said .
I actually think ed01 made some very good points on the subject the other day which seem to off been back up by both ole and mc tom today.

39.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 20:03:44
Clear as day what the eds have said about Donny written above, all sorts of wrong and embarrassing.

The guy has come and and made an impact each time he's featured so dunno where this not adapting and good options in mf shows good depth nonsense Ole is spinning, that is equally as embarrassing.

Pogba won't be dropped permanently or sold unfortunately and clearly nor will Bruno, so it leaves Donny in a bit of limbo save the odd game, not what he agreed to and was told before he signed is it.

40.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 20:08:31
Jred,

Then points weren’t all negative though so some have forgotten they exist.

41.) 27 Oct 2020
27 Oct 2020 20:21:17
I would assume he is just not settling in as quickly as some do. On the face of it, it seems to be a unnecessary buy to be honest, but it does allow Ole to bleed him into the team gradually. It took Robertson and Fabinho months to force their way into the Liverpool team after they joined, purely because they took time to get the hang of the instructions they were being given. They would both revert automatically to their previous style of play once on the pitch, it might be that vdB is the same. He has come through at Ajax and only known one way to play, you have plenty of options in that position, so you can take your time and make sure he is fully ready to go when he does get starts
Welsh that is what thd ed said ties in very well with mctom and ole imo .
What is it your trying to say because I have no idea?