Manchester United Discussion

13 May 2024 16:39:50
ED002, any information on Carrington and Old Trafford?

{Ed002's Note - in terms of what?}

13 May 2024 17:33:10
The planned demolition date I presume.

13 May 2024 18:12:35
When it rains it pours.

13 May 2024 18:35:14
Think he’s after the address and phone numbers.

13 May 2024 17:50:41
In terms of moving away from Carrington long-term? What is the scale of the planned upgrades in the short-term?

{Ed002's Note - You will need to wait until they apply for planning permission in the years to com.}

13 May 2024 22:46:47
I think people have spent so much time in video games that they think things can be changed almost instantly with a click.

It could easily take 18 months to two years just to assess all the options and have a it planned out. Then another year to get planning permission all approved, another couple of years to build it. It'll be a miracle if we were in a new stadium in under 5 years.

13 May 2024 12:10:52
I know I'm going to get ripped by plenty on here, but here goes.

The more I hear the rumours of Southgate coming to OT, the less upended I feel.
I'm not entirely sure what that means - am I simply becoming conditioned to the idea, or am I actually warming to the idea? 😲

I mean, coaching-wise, he's apparently abysmal, but then again, we have Shteve who I rate highly as a coach and is a million miles better ten Hag.
So I wonder, would such an appointment be made not for the coaching, but for the decent attributes he would bring?

Now here me out before the dart board gets busy.

Firstly, Southgate is great with people and has an ability to appease an ego without looking like an invertebrate - there are many inflated egos at OT that need to be managed by an astute man-manager.
I know there are some who'd fear he'd allow Rashford to take the proverbial even more, but when was the last time he was given an easy in with England. The fine lines required to succeed at United demand the presence of savvy people, head coach/ manager/ noddy is no different.
Could Southgate be that guy?

Secondly, Southgate is media-trained and very articulate. While the attitude of the media does carry a far less respectful tone to a Man Utd head coach/ manager/ noddy than that which applies to the England boss, I suspect Gareth would conduct himself and handle that pressure far better than Erik.

Ultimately, I would rather we stuck with Erik for another season while watching England win the Euros under Gareth than bring the latter into uncharted, shark-infested, waters where he might well be exposed badly.
But I'm not SJR and am therefore only an ill-informed opinion.

For the first time in so many years, we're seeing tangible organisation - the formation of a footballing structure together with appointments of time-served individuals who offer all the things we need.
So, if we were to appoint Gareth as team boss, then who on Earth am I criticise?
My knowledge of Gareth's ability and limitations come from two avenues - his first foray into club management (managing egos at Boro that he played alongside previously) which came with a pretty unique set of issues, and the far better informed opinions of those he's worked with.

Who knows, maybe the dream team of Gareth and Shteve could unlock the potential that is certainly there in the squad.
I know that Southgate likes a 3 at the back - a defensive formation that works better for Maguire and Martinez, one that might unlock the relatively untapped potential within Dalot, one that could provide the defensive thuggery required for Mainoo to excel as the metronome his talent suggests he'll become.

Again, who am I but a fan starved of the good times I miss so dearly, a fan who can see the vivid potential the club has of one day returning to the top table of football, a fan who can now see round pegs being placed into round holes and is smelling that sweet whiff of optimism again.

If Sir Jim wants Gareth, then I'll go with that because, simply, who am I but a fan lacking the informed knowledge of what he'll be tasked to bring to the party?

In Sir Jim I trust, albeit with the pensive caution of a fan who has seen many a false dawn slap me round the chops.

13 May 2024 12:49:50
Jesus.

13 May 2024 13:03:08
jesus christ.

13 May 2024 13:10:47
Wazza

No, I'm not so sure about him.

13 May 2024 13:29:02
Really good post Ork.
I think Southgate has done a great job for England and made them relevant again considering England are a football minnow when it comes to getting to latter stages of tournaments. He has hot them closer to winning than anybody before him for 60 years.
Based on the style he plays with the national team Ihe would not be my preferred choice but he has some great attributes as youhave laid out above and surrounds himself with good knowledgeable people.
He has imo always eered on the side of caution and has lost out to better teams.
I'd liken the job he has done with England to the job arteta has done with arsenal in terms of making the relevant again and competing at the top table.
If he wins the euros I'd liken what he has achieved with England to what klopp did at Liverpool.
We know so little and there are so many unknowns and most Importantly we have no input.
I don't care who the next manager is because no matter who we get it's a compromise on pep who is streets ahead of all others right now, that's not to say we can't compete with and beat him, and I don't care what players we sign at all as long as they're is a strategy in place that leads to continuous and sustainable improvement.
I believe that sjr and team will put that strategy in place. They will make signings and appoint people and they won't all work out that's for sure but as only as the group as a whole are making forward strides then that's OK. There will be bulbs on the road but if the strategy is right then the long term future looks better.
Things are so bad right now that a real left field candidate like Southgate could be exactly what produces a positive response.
Thus is our worst ever season in the epl. So I think getting some improvement next year will be a doddle for any new manager coming in as it's hard to see it getting much worse.
Appointing an English manager is high risk considering an English manager has never won an epl title they don't seem to understand football as well as other nationalities and the game has progressed and passed them by to a large extent.
If Southgate does lead the team to a euros victory it would be the best achievement by any English man managing any football team since to 80s probably. I'm not sure that they will win I think there are a couple of teams that may pip them at the post again that are better equipped defensively. His squad is overloaded with good attacking players but it's slim pickings when liking for top quality defenders and gk and invariably that's where tournaments are won and lost Imo.
It would be great craic on here if he is appointed united manager I dare say the knives would be out before a ball is kicked but I suspect even Southgate won't lead us to 20 defeats in a season so we should see a modicum of improvement in results at the very least.

13 May 2024 14:24:04
You'd have the biggest knife ken, definitely the sharpest anyway 😂.

13 May 2024 14:32:02
I guess he’s a safe pair of hands during a transitional year or two but he’s just so dour and lacking sparkle.

Also, whilst he’s done much good with England squad, he surely should’ve done much better.

Has to be someone better out there!

13 May 2024 14:54:12
He lacks charisma no doubt Wallace but has more than 10hag.

13 May 2024 15:11:13
Wallace

There are plenty out there who are better, but how many are going to want to come to United?
That's the problem in a nutshell.

Irrespective of project rebuild, managerial tenures are generally short in the modern game and, where before credibility could be supported by persona, this era is wholly unforgiving at the top level.

I'd like Amorim, but what is there about the club that would appeal to a young manager who can ill afford to have his credibility absorb the impact of a wasted two or three years?
There's nothing tangible to draw the better names other than money and words. We're probably not going to be in Europe and, while some really can't deal with the term, 8th (our likely finishing position) is midtable.

Any prospective option will be well aware that the next two seasons will still be subject to plenty of troughs on the pitch while the expected exodus of those deemed not good enough is in action - there will likely be more players who fail and more battles with egos.

Next season won't see an instant solution to the problems on the pitch - that will take time.

So it's unlikely that Amorim or De Zerbi would really go for it, it's equally unlikely that Potter would really want to risk his career being scorched so badly again.

That probably leaves us with Southgate as the only realistic option, even if he is only there to firefight for a couple of years while Sir Jim and his team take the ruffled feathers to task.

He's certainly not the most inspiring name, but he might just be the tonic needed for some balance and team spirit.

13 May 2024 16:14:00
Solskjaer brought that and some fans still hammer him Ork. How long until footballs not to our expectations under Southgate then fans are calling him to be out?! Cycle continues to repeat itself.

13 May 2024 17:08:02
Ports it all depends on what the dof and team deem the style to be.
The new coaching team will be asked to deliver and implement that over a period of time while they furnish the coaching staff with the players required to deliver that vision.
It's straight forward in theory and can be in practise with good recruitment.
Like any good business in any sector your only as good as your strategy and recruitment. Get it right and things can get better very quickly. Keep getting it wrong and, well you've seen the consequences here for the last 10 years.
Fergie made loads and loads of recruitment errors as has pep and everybody in webber industry.
Thankfully the decision makers on recruitment for the last 10 years are nearly all gone. Just a couple of stragglers left till the session ends. So there is no reason to think the same mistakes are going to be repeated.
This whole rinse and repeat nonsense is simply that. They're are new decision makers at the club so it's time to rid the club of the end of those old decision makers and get on with fixing the mess they have made.
Why would anybody think that sjr and team will repeat the bad decisions of before.
People need to remember the awful decision makers that appointed ole moyes lvg Jose and bought fellaini loaned weggy bought Anthony are the ones that appointed eth who has just led us to our worst ever epl campaign.
We know their judgement is flawed. There is a litany of bad recruitment on their watch. Eth is just the last one.

13 May 2024 17:42:02
Yeah I actually agree Ken but the point is regarding Southgate and, I believe his inability to coach a style of football, us fans are hoping to see. And, if the dof and others are going to create our identity, I don’t think Southgate has the cv to do this.

13 May 2024 17:52:35
Wouldn't be my choice but that counts for nothing.

13 May 2024 20:26:40
Ports

Let's combine some factors we feel are pertinent to any appointment with some that are legitimate conditions of influence upon the realistic options.

We want -
1. A manager with a discernible style and ethos.
2. A manager who won't tolerant passengers.
3. A manager with a spine.
4. A manager who has the capacity to learn from his mistakes.
5. A manager who gives youth a chance.
6. A manager who might pick the odd average player because he fits the set up against particular opponents, but one who generally picks on form.
7. A manager with some charisma.

The club needs -
8. A man-manager who has an aptitude for dealing with egos without getting himself stuck in a hole.
9. A pragmatic manager who will set up for every game with a sensible approach.
10. A manager who won't be chatting it after a disappointing result.
11. A manager who won't arrive with unrealistic expectations and will respect the situation the club finds itself in currently.

I'm sure there could be more, but I'm a basic tit and I'm tired out from all that thought.

Which manager, from all those considered available, ticks all 11?
I don't think there is any such thing as a perfect option, I don't actually think there's a single manager/ coach on the planet who ticks all those boxes - the task at hand is so unflinchingly difficult.

The point is - no option is perfect.
Southgate wouldn't be my first choice and he wouldn't be my last choice, but it's ultimately not my choice so I only have an opinion.

As mentioned above, the knives will certainly be out if the fan gets busy, but we can't get so precious that we expect the much-required change of tack to deliver the factors we presume to be most essential.

All the appointments made since Fergie have been made with the intentions of ticking whatever boxes the Glazers and Ed have set out - and look at where we are now.
We had a fkn waterfall at OT today.

The change of tack we are seeing comes from someone with a plan, if that plan comes with Southgate then, for me, so be it.

13 May 2024 21:11:33
*yesterday*.

13 May 2024 22:06:55
I think it was Ed001 who made a good point a few days ago, regarding bringing in the likes of a Carrick in if they decide to part ways with ETH.

If there is a new appointment, sensible fans know the new guy will need time. I think the vast majority would be more prepared to give that time to someone who, first of all was good at his job, but also someone who the fans could get behind from the start.

For me, that man is definitely not Southgate. For all I think he's done a decent job with England, club football in the EPL is a totally different kettle of fish. He did nothing to convince when he had his last go at it. He's a nice guy, speaks well, but to me he's a clipboard manager and would be a wishy washy appointment.

10 May 2024 22:26:08
Gary Neville makes me laugh, saying United should keep hold of Ten Hag for another season especially if we win the FA cup, this coming from a guy that has sacked managers every season at Salford.

11 May 2024 07:05:45
I get the impression that Neville has changed his tune slightly since he did that interview with ETH last week, almost like he had some new info on what’s going on. Slim pickings out there for a new manager aswell, Tuchel will be available but reservations there, Potter i'd give a chance too but again reservations and I’d lose all faith in Ineos in one swoop if they appoint Southgate, but as I say it is slim pickings, what with Bayern struggling to recruit a manager I can see us sticking with ETH, either that or a swap of sorts. ETH to Bayern, Tuchel to us.

11 May 2024 10:00:20
Welsh, it definitely seems like Gary has shifted his opinions slightly since that interview.

There are rumours that he is an unofficial mouthpiece for the club, someone in the media who can say the things the club want while officially being detached and "non-bias".

I felt that the interview could signal a slight change or shift from the club. We haven't seen anything like that from the club before, an open and honest interview from the manager. It definitely seems to suggest the club are looking to be more open and communicate better with the fans. Something I think has been needed for a long time to try and bring the fans in and unite the fanbase. We have become far too divided and that makes it easy for the media to create controversy with negative reports and narratives.

We see it on here all the time, people unhappy with performances speculating why the manager didn't do this or that, when there is almost certainly a obvious and valid reason, we are just unaware of it.

Better communication from the club would go along way to shutting down that discontent.

Maybe EtH is just starting off something the club will look to continue. Or maybe the club have made the decision to stick with him, for now at least, and wanted to give him the platform to start to take control of the narrative and start to change opinions by explaining more of what is going on.

Neville definitely seems more open and even supportive of the manager, maybe in his chat with Erik he gained a better understanding of what is going on, and what the manager is doing behind the scenes to get the club back on the right path and Neville feels that the manager is aiming to do the right things and understands better what constraints he had been working with.

I think it's fair to say Neville probably had a better idea of what was happening at the club than most fans prior to his interview with EtH. Yet he will 100% know a lot more now than he did before the interview. Whatever he knows now seems to have shifted his opinion somewhat, it would be interesting to know what that is/ was and why it's caused him to seemingly change his mind.

There oddly does seem to be a weird sentiment held by many people that changing your mind is a negative thing or a sign of weakness. Yet that couldn't be further from the truth.

Everyone forms their opinion based on what they know at a specific time, be that a fair bit about a situation or very little. Only a fool doesn't re-evaluate their views and opinions when faced with new information that changes either the context or the content of what they are basing their opinion on.

Imagine you are sat on a jury and are presented with a very compelling case that makes you sure of a persons guilt. Then you are presented with evidence that proves that person to to innocent. Would you ignore that evidence and find them guilty because you didn't want to change your opinion?

You'd be an idiot and a pretty awful person to not change your opinion in that situation.

That is why for me very few of my opinions are fixed, the only ones that are fixed are ones based on morality of what is right from wrong. Everything else I'm open to changing my opinion based on new evidence or understanding of something in a new context.

In terms of EtH, I still believe he could be a success here with the right support. I've seen enough to see potential and feel he's managed aspects very well. He has also shown his ability at Ajax, a club that has an excellent structure to support the manager.

I still think it more than likely the club will look to replace him this summer. While I am also open to changing my mind about his ability to be a success. Firstly, regardless of his ability, in a media driven industry like football momentum is everything, turning things around can be akin to changing the tides. Once the majority of fans, media and general public believe you to be a failure it's almost impossible to turn it around. If/ when EtH gets to that point he will effectively become a dead man walking. Even an upturn in results/ performances will only starve off the negative feelings until the team next have a bad performances or result at that point.

If we get to that point my opinion will shift to us having to replace him, although not because I don't think he has the ability to be a success, but due to me believing that the situation means he can't be a success.

Likewise if I hear or see anything that shows what he's doing or has done in a different light, or new information that goes against what I think is best for the club, that will also start to make me shift/ re-evaluate my opinion of his suitability.

Either way my opinion is just that, a single opinion from one of the 600 million reported Manchester United fans, and just like the rest of those fans my opinion means very little in terms of what will actually happen at the club.

As fans our job is to show support for the club to help drive us towards glory. We get to have an opinion on all things about the club, however ill-informed that might be 99.9% of the time. Yet it is just that, the ramblings of an individual with no ability or power to alter that of which we hold that opinion.

12 May 2024 18:59:04
GN wants utd to win it all. as we all do! On tv I think his need to look impartial affects what he says. but as a fan, I think he just wants the best for us.

13 May 2024 09:02:17
Oh my God, the apologists and conspiracy theorists are out. Occam's razor. Most often the most obvious solution is the most appropriate. ETH is way out of his depth. His style of play and tactics were no better when we had a fully fit squad. It was the same last season. Sole reason for the limited success was an outlier season by Rashford.

Sack ETH and put McLaren in. The club clearly want a coach, not a manager. Rules out many. Seems an obvious move right now. Do it before the Cup Final.

13 May 2024 10:03:28
I don't think McLaren's reputation ever recovered after his England stint, and the interview in Dutchish.
But listening to some of his former players talk about him, he obviously knows how to coach a team.

13 May 2024 13:42:49
When was the last time McLaren coached those former players?

Nostalgia is a powerful drug, maybe McLaren's time is long gone and we would have been better off not bringing him back at all.

09 May 2024 17:53:29
Erik ten Hag walks into a bank to cash a cheque. As he approaches the cashier he says, "Good morning, Ms could you please cash this cheque for me? "

Cashier:"It would be my pleasure. Could you please show me your ID? "

Ten Hag:"Truthfully, I did not bring my i'd with me as I didn't think there was any need to. I am Erik ten Hag, Manager of Manchester United".

Cashier: "Yes, I know who you are, but with all the regulations and monitoring of the banks because of impostors and forgers and requirements of the legislation, etc., I must insist on seeing ID. "

Ten Hag: Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you. Everybody knows who I am. "

Cashier: "I am sorry, Mr Hag but these are the bank rules and I must follow them. "

Ten Hag:"Come on please, I am urging you, please cash this cheque. "

Cashier: "Look sir, here is an example of what we can do. One day, Tiger Woods came into the bank without ID. To prove he was Tiger Woods he pulled out his putter and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup. With that shot we knew him to be Tiger Woods and cashed his cheque. "

"Another time, Andre Agassi came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racket and made a fabulous shot where the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that shot we cashed his cheque. So, sir, what can you do to prove that it is you and only you? "

Erik stands there thinking and thinking and finally says, "Honestly, my mind is a total blank. there is nothing that comes to my mind. I can't think of a single thing. I have absolutely no idea what to do. I don't have a clue. "

Cashier: "Will that be large or small notes, Mr Ten Hag? ".

{Ed025's Note - good stuff Red Man..

09 May 2024 19:51:21
I enjoyed reading that pal touch of humour always helps to lighten the mood! Fair play!

08 May 2024 19:37:35
There has been some interesting debate since our latest defeat and whilst I don't want EtH to lose his job, I must accept that with each defeat and abject performance his tenure at the Club become more and more tenuous.

I've heard some unfairly try to lay the blame solely at EtH's door and attempt to absolve the players of any responsibility or accountability.

They argue many of the players on Monday night were either signed by EtH or had come through the academy, therefore not tainted by the failures of the past, however I don't believe this to be the case.

The biggest problem at Utd over the past decade has been the culture. This is not just defined by the manager but the Owners, CEO, Directors and Senior Managers/ Decision Makers.

They are all responsible for shaping the culture at the Club which is forged by their decisions and attitudes.

When commercialism is prioritised over sporting achievement, brand is championed over performance and standards are not adequately defined or upheld this harbours a place when toxicity can thrive and prosper.

When players are rewarded with lucrative, long terms contracts, often merely to protect their asset value, when the manager is unable to sell or move players on, when players want to move on loan rather than fight for their place whilst continuing to pocket their eye watering salary, when the Club cares more about generating revenue and attracting sponsorship than sporting success a culture of selfishness, entitlement, arrogance and apathy is allowed to infect and permeate into the very fabric of the Club.

It creates a culture where players understand there are no consequences for poor performance, they are protected by their huge contracts, they can't be sold, replaced or even held accountable. They bear no accountability or responsibility and ultimately it's the manager that always pays the price. They know this is a place of second and third chances, where past discretions and poor performance are forgotten, ignored or overlooked and a short periods of good form are lauded then rewarded.

Anyone who comes into the Club now is inevitably infected and overwhelmed by this toxic culture.

It transcends the players because the Owners and CEO have remained constant over the past 10 years. You can swap Sanchez and Pogba for Casemiro and Rashford. This has enabled player power to thrive and prosper so you can sack EtH but history tells us it won't make any difference and on Monday night those players are the product of 10 years of incompetence, bad decisions, apathy and malaise.

08 May 2024 20:37:14
Spot on DLIB.

08 May 2024 21:33:51
Good post DLIB but there is no room for intelligent conversation on here. The squad is the worse we’ve seen in years but also everything is the managers fault. Make it make sense.

We can only hope that that the SJR revolution is a full reset and the open heart surgery needed. Otherwise we’ll be going through the same process two years from now and everyone will be blaming it on the next manager.

09 May 2024 07:13:30
Great posts by DLIB and Wazza. Spot on.

09 May 2024 08:14:26
Nobody can lay blame entirely at ETH door. That would be totally wrong.

I was totally for giving ETH time and regardless of the fact I have admittedly jumped ship will “reset” and get behind him if he stays as that is clearly what SJR and far more qualified people than me deem the way forward.

Many people who called for SAF sack, for those old enough, were left with egg on their faces. Thankfully I was not one of them at that time but then his press conferences were not so “imaginative”.

But jeepers he has not done himself any favours with some of his tactics and certainly his press conferences.

If he stays, and I end up with egg on my face then fair play to him and I will give credit where due.

My only concern is how far into the next season do we go before we accept he is possibly, and I repeat possibly not up to the job as seems the case at this juncture.

09 May 2024 08:48:47
My issue with Eth is simply down to what he’s producing on the pitch.

Since last April we have been appalling. Yes the club has been a mess for a long time, but we can’t just overlook major tactical flaws and structural flaws in the team.

I keep going back to it, I’ve never seen a manager for us have as many excuses made for him. Injuries are tough, but the fact he’s not adapted once this season to try and set us up better with more of a defensive structure to cover deficiencies is ridiculous.

09 May 2024 09:47:11
Can it not be a simple case of the players take a lot of the blame and eth has to take some too. The players lack desire, workrate and in some just sheer ability but the manager is stubborn tactically has no in game management and has persisted with the same tactics all season that don’t work. We have a tonne of injuries but are some of these down to training methods? if so then why not change them. The blame can be shared around and absolving any side in this isn’t the right way to go. IMO!

09 May 2024 10:36:29
Really good post DLIB and I am aligned to Keefy. I was always on board with EtH and agree with a lot of what he has done, however as the season has gone on I have become more of the opinion that we need a complete reboot across all areas.

That being said, if the new ownership believe he is the right person and they want to work with him then I am on board with that.

What I want from the whole process is that they make the judgment away from the current run of awful results. If they see a good coach around the training ground, working and developing players and looking to bring youth through. If they see that with better direction and support he can improve the team from where we are then stick with him and make a strong statement that you are behind him.

If it does not work out next season then they can move on. I am ignoring all the rumours as I can't see the managers mentioned being right but only the new leadership know what they are looking for.

Regardless I am looking forward to the end of this sorry season and we go again next year.

09 May 2024 10:52:34
Good post Brad.