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01 Apr 2016 08:14:25
Hi guys,
Just been reading through the Memphis conversation and it got me wondering.
. why do we put so much stock into transfer fees and wages? It's not our money (unless you play the 'I bought a shirt and a duvet set this year therefore Memphis is wasting my cash' card) .
I love a transfer fee myself and I get more excited when we spend £20m than when we spend £150k. but then it's exciting when that £150k signing comes good and majorly disappointing when that £20m player ends up failing (and vice versa) .
But still, it's not my money so why do I care whether the expensive one or the cheap one came good? Why does the fee even come into the equation?
I'd love it if any of you guys could rationalise our feelings towards transfer fees and why they matter so much to us. Any budding psychologists out there?
1.) 01 Apr 2016 09:12:06
If you read the whole thing you will see I commented on this during the Memphis conversations. I don't really get it either, the club has plenty of money and will have a budget for transfers, it just seems to be to be an extra stick to beat the club with or an extra thing for people to moan about.
As somebody said down the page, the football world and the rest of the world are in a different league, JMB likes to compare United to other businesses and calls players 'assets' but it is on a different level to a lot of businesses, no other businesses pay employees £200k a week etc, but they can afford it, so it really is not an issue for us.
2.) 01 Apr 2016 09:41:12
It is evolutionarily beneficial to care about someone in your community overspending because communities with individuals who keep a close eye on spending end up lasting longer than communities with individuals who don't care. Caring about your football team overspending is an unhelpful misfiring of this helpful evolved trait.
3.) 01 Apr 2016 10:14:29
GDS2 - Giggs, Beckham, Butt, Rooney, Scholes, O'Shea, Neville. Are they all the same?
4.) 01 Apr 2016 10:53:53
Maze, yes they are all football players. Even though some would probably create a debate about rooney on that topic as well lol.
5.) 01 Apr 2016 10:57:59
I care because I hate the fact that hard earned consumer cash goes into this club and sometimes it is just p****d away. I pay for my sky package to solely watch Man United and buy tickets when I can to watch the team play. The money then in turn goes back into the club's budget.
The last thing I want to see is some overpaid buffoon prancing around the pitch having signed a multi-million pound deal and the club spending the supporters (consumers) hard earned cash on lemons who are supposed to entertain us supporters and yes even though it is difficult to believe football is part of the entertainment industry.
Finally, if you want to see what a club haemorrhaging cash looks like please see Leeds United or more recently Glasgow Rangers. It's easy to say that won't happen to us but I bet they never thought it would happen to them.
6.) 01 Apr 2016 11:14:35
The club is not haemorrhaging money on anyone. This regime/ ownership what ever you want to call it can be accused of many things but financial mismanagement is not one of them. The fact that they've taken out many millions from the club and were still paying high wages and large transfer fees is testament to that.
Also all this overpaying nonsense is overplayed. We are paying the going rate for most of the players we have with a few exceptions.
7.) 01 Apr 2016 11:15:44
Maze I don't think you understand the business, most of the money brought into the club come from sponsors such as Adidas and Chevrolet or TV money out of Rupert Murdoch's pocket.
Money directly from fans pockets in form of match tickets and merchandise probably make up less than 20% of the clubs annual income.
So unless you've just bought a Chevrolet or your Rupert Murdoch very little of your money has actually gone on players wages.
I don't get the money arguement, its only ever used to back up some negative view and is never an issue otherwise.
You feel Depay has stolen a living from you because he hasn't played well enough or tried hard enough in your opinion. So how do you feel about Luke Shaw who is paid more than Depay? His first season was shaky and he hasn't even turned up to training for 6 months, check out his twitter and instagram accounts and you'll see he is living a very similar life style to Memphis. Shaw has just got back from a holiday in Dubai.
Its a senseless arguement used to back up your view that you don't like Depay.
8.) 01 Apr 2016 11:40:42
Shappy I think you don't understand business friend. No money comes out of Rupert Murdoch's pocket and he would be offended that you said that. Where do you think Sky gets their money from? The magic money satellite in the sky?
I also don't know what you are talking about in regards to Shaw and Depay. You have just put a random statement together with a scathing attack on Rupert Murdoch's business credentials.
Let me add something else about transfer fees, does the transfer fee paid for a player not give an indication of what is or should be expected of him? You pay £25mil for a player shouldn't you expect £25mil performaces? When you sign the lad for £50k shouldn't you be expectant that £50k performaces may occur? Doesn't it give you an indication of where they are in thier career?
9.) 01 Apr 2016 12:02:03
MAZE,
When you go and your shopping at ASDA do you then check what they are investing in because your hard earned money is going to them? You are paying for a product, in this instance your Sky Television, what Sky then do with that money is up to them and what United then do with that money after that is entirely up to them, if you stopped paying for Sky would United have less money?
{Ed007's Note - So it doesn't bother you when companies like Sports Direct abuse workers with zero hour contracts or companies fill their staff with Workfare people instead of paying a wage to someone to do the job that is there? What about companies that use kids in foreign sweatshops to produce their goods, don't you want to know who they are so you can do your best to avoid them?
So yes, for me personally it's important where the money I spend goes, hence why I cancelled my Sky Sports and movies subscription and bought an android box. SLY claim to have 1 million SS subscribers in Scotland, thats about £25-30 million a MONTH being paid into Sky Sports, north of £300 million a year and yet Celtic get about £2 million for winning the league from SLY, I couldn't justify paying that to watch Stoke v Aston Villa. Especially when I can watch any game (movie or TV show too) for free.
I also stopped paying my TV licence 3 years ago because I refuse to subsidise any company that covers up paedophilia. They send me letters but that's it apart from once when a guy came to my door and I just shut the door in his face. I don't care if they fine me as I won't be paying it and I can sleep easy at night knowing I am not funding their cover ups.}
10.) 01 Apr 2016 12:30:43
Maze, Murdoch decides to pay a massive premium to get the rights to the EPL, of course the money comes from somewhere, and he makes a massive amount of money from his investment. that's business. But the fact remains that a massive proportion of the money our club makes every year comes to them via the EPL who in turn were paid by Murdochs compmany.
Moving on from that though I'll explain my Shaw comment in laymans terms for you. Your upset with how much Depay gets paid because you don't feel he has earned it. Yet Luke Shaw has been paid more this season than Depay has, and yet his work load has been significantly lower. Depay has made 5 or 6 times as many appreances, and has spent signifcantly longer training. So if your concern is value for money, then this season you should be more upset with your investment in Shaw than your investment in Depay. As for your gripe about Drpay's life style choices him and Shaw have a very similar life style and yet I haven't seen anything from you condeming Shaw. Its blantant double standards.
As for expectation on a player because of their transfer fee. I agree that people do feel that a higher fee should equate to a better player who performs better. But that just isn't the case. First off our club gets charged a premium because we are viewed as a club that can afford it. When Van der Vaart went to Spurs for 7m but we were quoted 20m a week or so earlier highlights this.
So many different factors are in play when a fee is agreed, the need of the selling club, the need of the buying club, the financial situation of each club, the competitive situation of each club, the length of contract the player has left, the age of the player, and yes the level at which the player is preceived to be performing at.
So big fee doesn't mean great player and it never has. We could sign Ibrahimovic on a free in the summer or spend 15m on a striker such as Enner Valencia. Does the fact we spent so much more on Valencia mean he is a better player than Ibrahimovic? Of course not.
On of the reasons Ed002 refuses to talk money is because so many of us on this site fail to grasp the fine differences.
11.) 01 Apr 2016 13:00:06
Isnt the age of the player an issue as well, the older the player the cheaper, and if we pay 30million plus for a player he needs to perform or else on your bike, wasn't demiara and Falco expensive mistakes, big money every week for Falco and a big transfer fee for di Maria, big disappointment when we pay big money for players to come in and flop, I thought we would be winning the league and challenging for Europe with them big expensive players.
12.) 01 Apr 2016 13:03:43
Its strange but the amount of times someone has posted about how much rooney is on you would of thought a players wage is a big deal on this site.
Maybe its just rooney?
13.) 01 Apr 2016 13:11:10
Shappy just to clarify - I'll put this in laymans terms - Murdoch gets paid by the United supporting consumer, he then uses this money to buy the rights to the EPL, This money funnels itself into United via the EPL's distribution of funds and Murdoch makes a huge return on his investment? So in essence the catalyst to this little game is the United supporting consumers purchase and really nothing comes out of Mr Murdoch's pocket like you claimed previously.
First off I don't have any gripes with Depay nor his life style just his application, dedication and ability (or lack of) on the field. That's it. Shaw is injured and doing his best to recover so I don't see where your going with this. Injuries happen that's life. Essentially your telling me I shouldn't criticise a player who has been terrible all season because he can make a game unlike another player who is laid up with a broken leg. What? I'll tell you one thing for certain if Depay broke his leg and Shaw played the amount of games Depay has we would be much better off.
Finally your transfer analysis is also baffling. United get held to ransom because they are willing to overpay, Levy at Spurs for instance won't it's as simple as that. Ibrahimovic is apparently demanding £600k p/ w wages for his next club which is essentially £31m and he is a depreciating asset in free fall. So tell me again how he will be cheaper than Valencia?
14.) 01 Apr 2016 13:13:53
Good point Leahy12 but certain players get a bedding in year and others don't you should know that. Very good point Jred, ironically we have all seen Shappy complain about Rooney's wages plenty of times in the past. In fact in one post he wanted him to get injured and enjoy his £300k a week at home.
15.) 01 Apr 2016 14:14:45
Lmao. Maze, I knew that laymans term bit would twist your knickers.
Have you considered that when you pay your subscription to Sky that you are paying for more than just United games? Your also paying for all the other channels, your also contributing to the financial health of all the EPL club, your investing just as much money into City and Liverpool as you are United. In fact as the prize money is distributed by finishing position then you will he investing more into every team that finishes above us than you will be investing into United by paying for Sky.
Of course your missing the obvious, you don't have to pay for Sky if it upsets you that much. There are other ways to watch United without financing Mr Murdoch. But I suspect you are happy to pay for it as its more convienent, and I suspect you probably watch as much if not more Sky TV than you watch United games. So I really don't see what your arguement is.
Also with my explaination of fees, am I to assume you would expect someone like Enner Valencia to play for free? You've come up with a wage for Ibrahimovic. But this is my point, there is no point dusscussing finances as people don't have all the actual figures, and they fail to appreciate all of the costs and where they come from.
If you want to slate Depay because you don't feel he is playing well enough then fine, if you precieve him as not trying hard enough then fine. But stop with the where his wages comes from and whether he deserves it and whinging about what he spends it on. You really do have no right.
His wages are his concern, what he spends his money on his his concern.
Someone might feel that you don't work hard enough for your wages, and they might not like what you spend your money on. They may even take offence to where the money you earn comes from. But its none of their business. Just like Depay's financial situation is none of your business.
Oh Jred, out fishing again. Funny how at the end of every Rooney debate you state you fine them pointless, then you try and start them all over again. How many times do we have to go around in circles. Rooney is a special case as he isn't human and is in fact a potato.
16.) 01 Apr 2016 14:43:41
As is also the case with government, the club has no money that it does not get directly (or however indirectly) from one customer or another or our sponsors.
Is anyone trying to suggest Adidas, Sky, BT etc etc. Just give money away no strings attached? Any cash they kindly "give" us is recouped by a premium on the price of the goods/ services they sell us.
I really don't want to get into the main argument here, the world is as the world is. Whinging will not alter a thing. However people do have a right to complain about how their money is being spent. It is their collective cash however circuitous the route from their pocket to the club.
17.) 01 Apr 2016 15:41:33
I don't particularly care how much we spend on players as long as the right areas are being targeted and the club aren't being wreckless with the companies future. Arguing over transfer fees and wages is just another branch on the tribalism tree. A way for rival fans of other teams to get one over on you and vice versa.
Sadly you have no say and no right to say what MUFC spends their money on. We are all consumers. If you have a season ticket and I go to 1 game a year, Dyou deserve a bigger say? Is your opinion more valid than mine? You willfully hand over your money in return for a product, you have a choice to do so.
The only thing fans have a say in these days is "should the manager stay in a job? " and even that's getting harder and harder to change. It's a horible way to look at something that engulfs your life but that is the fact of the matter is.
Sadly Maze your £50 a month sky subscription spread over the year and spread between English leagues, Scottish leagues, Spanish leagues. Golf, F1, Tennis, Cricket, NFL, NBA, Tiddlywinks, Carp Fishing and Boxing all amounts to Man Utd receiving proably about 3 cent of your money! After you give a homeless man a quid, you can't tell him what to spend it on!
18.) 01 Apr 2016 14:20:00
Bond - being a technophobe do tell me more about the android box. Can you watch football etc on it and how much does it cost etc. Sorry totally non football related.
{Ed007's Note - It's not really the box that's important, it's the software (KODI) on it but I bought a T8 box from HERE to save me connecting my laptop or tablet to my TV. I think it cost me £120 (about 2 months sports and movies subscriptions) and I can watch any football game I want, all your EPL games are on there live in HD quality, I see Celtic games live that aren't on TV and all the movies, documentaries, latest TV shows, classic TV shows you can shake a stick at. It's really simple to use as well, I wish I had bought one years ago.
We've got an ANDROID TALK page, Eric where there's a wee group of us that help people out with this stuff. Anything you want to know or any help you need just ask on there. A couple of the guys are really clued up on it all a lot more than me.
19.) 01 Apr 2016 17:53:06
Shappy
I thought that would twist your knickers .
Not trying to start a rooney debate this is about depay just shows how peoples opinions change depending on what point they are trying to argue .
Fickle fans.
20.) 01 Apr 2016 17:48:52
Ed007
I agree with the Sky thing however there are ways to reduce the price you pay sky the robbing swines! As a new customer you can get sky half price and as i work for Virgin i can usually get pretty good deals for NEW CUSTOMERS ONLY if people are interested.
{Ed007's Note - It's Virgin I'm with mate and as a company I'd recommend them to anyone over SKY/BT who I was with for years. I'm happy enough with the service and we've still got a TIVO box in the living room (lounge to all the Suvvern Softies) and in the bedroom but it's just the basic package. I did mention on the Utd Live Chat the other week that you get BT Sports for free with Virgin and somebody said you don't, so I must be getting it free by some glitch and I'm not telling - and neither are you.... ;-)
21.) 01 Apr 2016 18:20:56
Bt sport is free with xl tv pal or the Big Kahuna (shit name) and if you have got it on anything below that my advice to you when questioned would be to say, I'm saying nothing officer until I see my solicitor!
I'll find out exactly what our current mates rates offer is and let you know.
Your idea of basic might actually be our biggest tv package aside from sky sport and sky movies!
{Ed007's Note - I'll check with the Mrs as well exactly what's what.}
22.) 01 Apr 2016 19:44:32
Jred, you know I only wear knickers on the weekend. Lol.
23.) 01 Apr 2016 19:43:40
I am confused Bond. I want to get rid of sly to cut costs and the box option you describe sounds appealing but I don't understand why you'd need Virgin too?
I also couldn't care less what Depay does off the field. He's not set the world alight granted but he's never been a "get stuck in" sort and it's naive to think he'd turn into one overnight and dislike him because of it.
Ps I get sly for babe station. Some of the girls just look bored though, kind of like their hearts not in it and they're just in it for the money. I demand they do not recieve the share I fund by signing up to sly, and insist it is instead given to James Milner.
{Ed007's Note - I don't need to pay for sports or movies so I'm saving that which halved our bill. You can stream TV on it but the Mrs would be struggling to find all her programs that she watches and records when she's at work, soaps and such garbage, so it was easier just to keep the TIVO box for that. One of the lads on the Android-Talk page posted in earlier tonight about an add-on for streaming TV.}
24.) 01 Apr 2016 20:53:22
Bond the kodi app is a winner you can just get in on your phone and stream it to the tv.
{Ed007's Note - I know mate but it's just more hassle from 'Er Indoors. It took me long enough to talk her into getting the box because it wasn't exactly like Virgin/Sky TV guide and you want me to ask her to start connecting phones to the TV? We'd be back up to a full subscription package in minutes!}
25.) 01 Apr 2016 21:04:44
snappy stop confusing maze. He will just end up turning back into JMB or rollo!
26.) 01 Apr 2016 21:31:50
Ed007
My wife is the same whenever i show her something new and different from the norm. It never works and its always the remotes fault and not hers! Maybe we need to look at replacing them instead of virgin/ sky boxes!
{Ed007's Note - It's brutal mate. My Mrs loved playing golf on the PS3, if I was out she could sit and play to her heart's content. I bought a PS4 last year and bought HER the new golf game and she's hardly looked at it. Her excuse and I quote "How am I meant to to work that? You didn't even tell me what channel it was tuned to."}
27.) 01 Apr 2016 22:32:50
Well that digressed into a million brilliant outlooks into why money means so much to us with regards to football and the wider world. Thanks guys.
{Ed007's Note - Bloody international breaks!}
28.) 01 Apr 2016 23:26:07
Classic that! If pushed i'm sure your wife would say the ps3 is better than the ps4! As mine can only find the eject button and has still not worked out how to turn it on let alone the source/ tv/ av button on the tv, she thinks the ps4 is shit and doesn't work!
She even moaned about the new tv the other day and said its rubbish because she couldn't turn it on!
New wives it is then!
{Ed007's Note - I could go on all night, Ed001 says my wife is the blondest brunette he's ever met. How about going to the vet because the dog had spots on his belly only to be told that it was his nipples?}
29.) 02 Apr 2016 00:18:46
That last one about the dogs nipples is surely not true!?
Regardless please don't spoil it whilst i'm believing and laughing so much!
As for Ed001 (not that i'm stirring) didn't he say you know nothing about football!?
{Ed007's Note - Did he say that? Hahaha I'm fed up telling him not to sit that big bald head in the Dubai sun when he's editing. Never trust a guy that's claim to fame is that Eddie the Eagle was his neighbour.}
30.) 02 Apr 2016 00:42:23
Well you leave me no choice, despite the Eddie comment!
It was during a Roy Keane debate (i love him too) and he started a love in for Souness and slagged off Roy and said he wasn't hard? How dare he! If you are around Ed01 explain yourself young man!
31.) 02 Apr 2016 11:16:04
Surprised who so many people don't car how much we spend and where we spend it. Don't know any single business in the world that does well when they invest poorly. Your money or not if you care for the club doing well and wining things start caring about how much and who we spend money on or stop complaining when we but prunes.
We are not a bottomless pit and have limitations on how and where we spend. Given our current state of affairs we better spend wisely in the summer or might be in a state of abyss for a few more years.
The real question is would we have been better off this season, if we had spend the 275k in wages that Schweinsteiger supposedly gets or the 90k and 30 million on Depay elsewhere. From this season alone they have been terrible investments with very little return, let's see what the future brings i guess.
21 Oct 2015 19:21:24
Does anybody know what the rules are if every game in a CL group stage ended up 0-0? How would they separate the teams to decide who goes through?
1.) 21 Oct 2015 19:32:00
If all teams level then its the higher number of coefficient points accumulated by the club in question, as well as its association, over the previous five seasons.
2.) 21 Oct 2015 20:49:26
Thanks dude.
3.) 22 Oct 2015 01:07:30
Or if your club name has Real Madrid or Barcelona in the title.
18 Oct 2015 23:44:58
"He did great work for us. He is very important for England and also for us. When you have your captain in good form, scoring goals and if he is happy then it is very important for us. He is our leader, the best English player in history, so we have to enjoy him and it is going to help us a lot. "
That's from Herera on our official website.
I'm not a particular Rooney apologist or even a supporter of his (always club over player), bi"He did great work for us. He is very important for England and also for us. When you have your captain in good form, scoring goals and if he is happy then it is very important for us. He is our leader, the best English player in history, so we have to enjoy him and it is going to help us a lot. "
I'm not a Rooney apologist or even a slater of him (always club first) but I feel like comments like this sometimes make me understand the impact or influence he has on the club.
He's a bit **** at the moment and he's slowing down a bit but when you look at his record (and records) you think "f**kin* hell". Level with Andy Cole now and second behind the never to ever, ever be beaten Shearer record. I'm afraid, no matter how **** he is now, he's actually gone and matched those expectations that we put on him as an 18yr old.
It's a pity that his physique means he won't end his career with a bang. But once he's done Sir Bobby's Utd record - that's it - he's done it.
Long post. Thanks for reading :)
27 Sep 2015 10:32:11
Anyone seen Mata's stats since joining Utd? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read 18 goals and 16 assists from 55 games. That's really impressive. He contributes pretty much every game. He has a few flaws: lack of pace and acceleration, sometimes gets knocked off the ball easily. But I have noticed that a previous flaw of his (going missing for 15 mins at a time) doesn't seem to happen anymore.
If he keeps this rate up another 3/5 years - will he be a club legend? Or does he have to bring home some silverware or win some personal honours first? I'm interested in what you guys think.
1.) 27 Sep 2015 11:17:52
Mata does like a goal and assist which is handy as we've lacked that from behind the strikers in recent times. He's grabbed a few important goals too. Some don't like him playing wide right but the manager obviously likes what he offers there and what Blind offers at CB. They are two of his vital cogs for his philosophy it seems, both being good at keeping the ball ticking over and probing for gaps.
I can see Mata becoming a cult hero among fans if he continues to quietly contribute the way he does, he rarely gets the headlines. He might be one of those players who fans only appreciate fully with hindsight, towards the end of his time with us.
2.) 27 Sep 2015 11:33:54
This goes reletivly unoticed, but i think he could do with a fair few titles and trophies to help him on his way to being a club legened, he does still time to do it and hopefully this season he may add at least 1 trophy to his collection.
06 Aug 2014 08:21:31
Eurosport article features quotes from Chile manager saying LvG hasn't met Juve's 45M fee for Vidal due to doubts over Vidal's knee.
You can find it quite easy by googling it.
1.) 06 Aug 2014 08:42:04
Lvg's decision has to be wel calculated.
First he pulled out from rumoured kroos deal. now showing concerned over Vidal.
I know he wanted strootman only.
Now I hope all this 3 stories together work in good of united.
It doesn't mater to me who comes and who don't. I want to see united back on top. with the football united is famous for.
2.) You can also find easily by scrolling a few posts down. :)
3.) 06 Aug 2014 09:55:21
Funny. But my post was actually written 20 mins before Shappy's - just took longer to make it onto the site :)
08 May 2017 21:58:15
I just want to say that Beast's negative, and quite boring posts are putting me off this site. Worst fan I've ever come across. I actually think deep down in his sub conscience he'd rather we lost just to further his misery agenda. Beast - you're boring. Do one.
{Ed025's Note - beast is just being honest firebear and i know its a bit repetitive but he does make some valid points, if you are enjoying watching united then god help the sport, they have been woeful lately bar for a couple of games and after 20 odd years of entertaining its hard to swallow some of the dross we have seen in recent times, he is a passionate supporter who is not prepared to put up with united being also rans and to be fair to him he wears his heart on his sleeve and there is nothing wrong with that, i suggest that if you dont appreciate his views then you just ignore them and stop being judge and jury mate..
30 Aug 2016 18:13:59
Wayne always does the illuminati thing when he scores. Probably one for the conspiracy pages but I reckon the "powers that be" have made it impossible to drop him.
19 Jun 2016 08:15:35
I didn't see a single Mourinho quote in that article. Meaning the whole thing was probably made up.
01 Apr 2016 22:32:50
Well that digressed into a million brilliant outlooks into why money means so much to us with regards to football and the wider world. Thanks guys.
{Ed007's Note - Bloody international breaks!}
25 Dec 2015 23:47:45
Yep. Legend.
21 Oct 2015 20:49:26
Thanks dude.