Manchester United banter 3

 

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11 Dec 2017 09:44:57
Had a look at the goals again and is it me or could DDG have done a tiny bit more for one if not both of them? He appeared slightly planted, in shock that the man got to a free scoring position three yards in front of goal, rather than take action. I reckon some keepers would have rushed to smother both the ball and the man about to hit the ball.

DDG is awesome and my favourite player in the team so it's hard for me to criticise him, but he isn't the most aggressive keeper in situations like that. Not to excuse the terrible defending/ failure to easily clear our lines on both counts, where he was badly let down.

Agree0 Disagree6

11 Dec 2017 10:45:17
Maybe, he could of maybe he couldn't. It's swings and roundabouts. If he was a more aggressive keeper then no doubt that would lead to him making mistakes occasionally due to him rushing out and not assessing the situation in a calm and clear way.

11 Dec 2017 10:46:30
They were tap ins from 3 yards he had no chance with either.

11 Dec 2017 09:05:43
Sounds like a few still haven't come to terms with life after fergy .
Not guaranteed success, changing managers etc .

I'm sure everyone is feeling sorry for some of the spoilt United fans .

We will have to make do with a manager like Jose, playing in front of a half empty derelict stadium, watching players like pogba who we bought for a packet of chips, surrounded by semi pros who don't pick up the best pay packets in the league but do get a packet of crisps and half pint after the game .

Bottom of the league, out the cups?
Where's the plan?

Agree3 Disagree2

11 Dec 2017 09:14:56
You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer Jred, but I cannot help but love you.

11 Dec 2017 09:34:28
Its a relegation battle from here on in jred.

11 Dec 2017 09:59:59
We are doomed I tell ya doomed .


What chance have we got, all the other teams have better managers players money infrastrucre .
We are getting worse season after season .

11 Dec 2017 10:48:19
Jred,

We don’t always agree but I’m with you on this one, overreactions to defeats are the norm on here though so no surprise. We lost to 2 scruffy goals whilst missing our best defender and best midfielder but the world has ended. Anyone who didn’t think we would lose once Pogba got sent off last week is kidding themselves.

11 Dec 2017 10:50:42
What kind of post is that Jred?

We've just lost the derby where we got totally our classed and more worrying out fought by our fiercest rivals. I think people are entitled to give their opinions about what went wrong?

Once we start accepting performances like y'day and that City are better, we lose our winning mentality, cutting edge and everything Fergi spent building for 25 years! We then become all those things you've just listed.

There is no bigger Utd fan than me, I love the Club, I love going to the matches, I love talking and debating about football. We all know it's not the end of the world but it hurts after a derby defeat especially when it almost certainly means that they'll win the title before Christmas and we didn't even make a tackle or make it hard for them!

For the record I'm a Jose fan, I still think we're going in the right direction and in Bailly, Pogba and Matic I think he's made some excellent signings. I'm bitterly disappointed about y'day because whilst City have improved immeasurably from last season Jose still feels the need to play ultra defensive football (in the big games) asking two CF's to play as auxiliary full backs!

I just feel 3 at the back suits the players in our squad at the moment, we get natural width with Young and Valencia and Martial can play higher up the pitch where he can run with the ball and terrify defences.

I didn't get the tactic's y'day, we were sitting ducks and played the entire game hoping they'd make a mistake rather than trying to create something ourselves.

It's the only game when I've felt let down by Jose defensive mentality and it's now obvious from
his results against the big 6 that it's simply not working and he needs a major re think!

This City side are far to good to play like that and we got exactly what we deserved!

11 Dec 2017 11:23:21
United are second only to a team that has had the best start to a season after 16 games ever in the English game and have just put together the longest winning streak in the history .
That's better than any team under fergy achieved, any team under Jose that great arsenal team them great Liverpool teams .
United where sat 6th this time last season and only 11 teams in the epl had scored less. This season only a record breaking city have scored more or have more points .
Yet we have a poor squad no plan etc? Doesn't say much about the other teams in the league behind us

That last time we won the league we had just beat city at this point of the season to give us 4 more points than we have now.

The year we won the treble we had 6 less points at this stage of the season .
And yet we have a poor squad no ambition no plan etc etc etc .

Maybe we are doing really well just not as good as 1 team that has raised the bar after 16 games higher than it's ever been before?

11 Dec 2017 11:26:42
Danny fergy got beat 6.1 by city, it happens .
It doesn't mean the club has no plan poor squad no ambition etc etc.

11 Dec 2017 11:40:18
Anyone who didn't think we would lose cause pogba got sent off last week is kidding themselves.
So gds2 are we a one man team now.
And we should all be happy cause city are the best team in the league.

11 Dec 2017 11:48:11
Jred - I agree with a lot of your posts pal. I know it's not the end of the world and I actually think we're still heading in the right direction. Maybe the final piece of the jigsaw is not being so ultra defensive in the big games. I actually think we've got a good team!

The manner of the defeat hurt maybe I'm still a bit emotional!

Anyway decent draw in the Champs League, by no means a gimme but certainly winnable so lots to look forward to!

11 Dec 2017 12:58:08
Leahy,

Not a one man team but city are bloody good this season and it would take our best team to beat them which we didn’t have, our best midfielder was missing and we have struggled against much worse teams than city without him this season.

11 Dec 2017 07:55:04
The defeat doesn't hurt as much as the manner of it does.
40 minutes and we concede and then suddenly our players remember young etc remember that there is a thing called stepping out of the half-line.
City won because they created far more chances.
It was a scrappy game and on another day it could have been just a 0-0.
We missed Pogba, but other 10 were first choice players, and you can't always have the best XI.
The issue was the fight and the lack of appetite, why did we not press them, there were so many times when De Bruyne and Fernandinho had all the time in the world to look for a pass.
We really lack a leader, Herrera looked like he could be one, but has regressed. You know someone who'll probably be disappointed for a week. That's when I feel we miss someone like Ferdinand or someone who'll give the players a rollicking when they play shit.
We missed Pogba/ Carrick who can atleast pick a pass, when Lindelof came on the passing from the back wasn't dreadful and maybe it was a game where Blind, Lindelof and Smalling should have started centrally so that ball could be played from behind and not the master hoofer Rojo who just invited pressure. It was like a bottom of the league trying to escape the not that great attacking force of city. This should have resulted in a far better result.

Agree2 Disagree0

11 Dec 2017 08:31:47
When we don't have pogba we don't look like anywhere near the same team


One player doesn't make a team. But atm whenever pogba hasn't played we seem like we don't know how to play we don't attack with the same intensity.


I don't think city will drop 12 points they are just miles ahead the way they are playing.

11 Dec 2017 03:44:17
So apparently city and its staff and players were involved in a post match scuffle with lukaku was prominently involved in it according to Daniel Taylor from guardian and mourinho was hit on the head with a bottle.

If I were to make a guess I would say lukaku aimed for a city player and hit mourinho instead given his accuracy.

Agree3 Disagree0

11 Dec 2017 04:57:50
It is utd not it's.

11 Dec 2017 05:19:58
haha good one CSM, no doubt it wasn't his fault either because the bottle was not given to him quickly enough or at the perfect speed!

11 Dec 2017 05:45:34
Beast he has been so bad in last 2 games, can't score for us but had a hand in both city goals and had ddg scrambling with a near brilliant own goal against arsenal. Everton really mugged us.

11 Dec 2017 09:17:38
Haha very good Common.

11 Dec 2017 09:44:16
José complaining about City players' lack of respect in their celebrations. He shouldn't be complaining. Him and the players should have been forced into the City changing room, and made to watch the celebrations, to remind them exactly what this game means.

11 Dec 2017 09:53:51
Agreed Stevie, however I feel the players wouldn't have wanted to play the way Jose made them play. Jose has no confidence in himself and his players. He tried this at Real Madrid, players didn't have none of it and played their own way.

11 Dec 2017 00:37:48
What a poor result but I can't say I'm surprised. I was shocked at the line up and still can't understand why we changed from the 3/ 5 at the back formation that has worked very well previously. I would have understood if we had any sort of game plan but we didn't. There was no structure no fluidity and for most of the game no passion. We can all go crazy that we lost but the sad truth is that City have a younger better team than us with a fantastic manager. This City side doesn't look like it's only going to get better. With Peps style and the money he'll have to spend something drastic at United has to change if we have any hope of reaching their level. I'm afraid defensive football isn't going to win the league anymore. This City team is really starting to look like a title winning Ferguson team which seriously worries me.

Agree1 Disagree0

10 Dec 2017 22:50:51
The irony of us gifting two goals from set pieces is laughable. All I want to see is passion and determination from the players. It was a derby for Christ’s sake against our neighbours and title rivals. The players should have been harrying and pressuring city not giving them a moments rest. But instead we sat off and allowed them to play. We showed them so much respect and it is bitterly disappointing. The crowd played their part in creating a supportive atmosphere and the players and manager let us down today. What I saw today was not in keeping with the traditions of the club I love. City played the way we used to - with pace, creativity and passion. I have been Jose’s biggest supporter but today showed me that although we may win the league with him at some point, we will not do it in the United way. And that is not good enough for our great club. City have a long term plan and they are a club on the up. We have bought badly and our owners care about money. I would even say city are favourites for the champions league. What I saw today is one manager that lives and breathes a creative and beautiful brand of football. And I saw another that is happy to sit back and ‘hope’ for a mistake. That is the difference between the two sides. One manager see the beauty of the game whilst another see it in a more pragmatic way. We do not have bad players we have some fantastic skilful young players. If rashford and martial were playing under pep they would be flourishing like sterling and sane. It’s painful to admit but they have a manager who we should have signed after Fergie.

Where is our ambition? Where is the united of old? It died the day Fergie left. The club needs to take a hard look at itself if we want to get back to the top. We must invest in January and we must back the manager in the summer. I am sure after a few days I will be able to be less emotional and more objective of the situation. We must take each game as t comes and keep on winning. And then we must pray that our rivals do us a favour. Because that is what it will take for us to even have a chance.

Agree4 Disagree1

11 Dec 2017 06:08:24
I think that's a bit of an over reaction bud. Guardiola is no messiah and he has spent over 600 million pounds on a squad that was better than our when he arrived. We can't be great one week and and dog sh. t the next based on one result. sometimes in football the ball bounces right for you and that is the difference of a win lose or draw.

11 Dec 2017 07:35:01
Park

Aims and ambitions. City want to have the best football team in Europe and dominate, become the English version of Barca, money is no object. Utd’s want to be the most valued brand with the asset value in mind, goals (financial) can be achieved by getting in the Champions League each year. Fundamentally that is the issue and arguments over managers, players and style are driven by that.

11 Dec 2017 07:35:36
X Files - You are right, Pep is no bloody messiah, he spent outrageous amounts of money and got the players who fit in his system.

I think Mou was really brave with the line-up, I didn't think for a second before the line-up came that we will play with Rashford, Lukaku and Martial together with just Herrera and Matic playing in the middle, with Lingard roaming free.

From the first minute, the only thing that really pissed me off was that United weren't really going for the press on the city players, and I don't mean press the defence, but allowing De Bruyne and Silva 10-15 yards to run with the ball is just not acceptable. And they aren't running sideways, but they are running towards your goal. Heckle, them for Christ's sake.

Then, Rojo and Young hoofing the ball upfield towards Lukaku is just making him run for no reason. If they did want to play the long balls, then at least ping them behind the full backs, that's where the space is (coz of City's high press), no point pinging it in the middle because the defence will just sort it out.

Sometimes, during the game, I felt that United players are just scared of the ball or getting the ball to their feet and playing through the press. All you need is a bit of movement from the people around you and the press can be countered, instead, those players would receive a pass, and then boom! upfield it went.

City didn't carve us open the way people expected them to, they got two goals which on any other day, given the way United defend, would not have been goals. Yes, they had more of the ball, but that was expected from them and Mou doesn't play a possession-based game. So that's fine.

I think because we gave city so much space in front of us, our intensity suffered and we just weren't good enough on the counter and we always looked a little concerned with the press.

Lukaku should have scored that one and then Mata could have converted that, but that was some save by Ederson and I doubt he knew much about it. But, when you are the number 9 in the team, you are expected to bury those chances.

Pogba was a big miss, I remember him turning koscielny inside out for United's third goal last weekend and when he got the red card, the first thought that I had was, that we don't have players who can do that. Pogba would have made a big difference in the middle of the park, at least he wouldn't have allowed Silva and De Bruyne to run with the ball and City would have been vary of him on the break. But that ifs and buts and those will always be the case.

I think the title race is still on, maybe we have an outside chance of catching them (this is the fanboy in me talking, not the realistic one) but we really have to up our intensity and make teams believe that they aren't playing have-beens, we still are MANCHESTER F***ING UNITED and I would them players to realise this.


On a side note, make them watch the movie United, let them feel what it really means to be playing for one of the most successful club's in the world.

Come on Bournemouth, let's have you!

11 Dec 2017 09:47:00
I have to laugh at people moaning about City spending ridiculous sums of money. Did we get all ours on free's? The difference is, their manager knew exactly who he wanted, and in what position, and they spent what was needed to get them. United fans whingeing about another team spending money, dearie me.

11 Dec 2017 10:02:55
99
On the money there pal.

11 Dec 2017 11:17:56
Agree with that nou. Not as if we haven’t spent a huge amount either. We haven’t invested well enough. Lukaku was a poor signing and yes he may score get 20 goals this year. But he hasn’t done it in any of the big games. I saw a stat this morning that van persie scored 7 goals against the so called top 6 rivals. Lukaku has 0 in 5 games. If we want to win the league we have to be beating the big boys and not hoping to scrape a lucky goal on the break. The number 9 at united has to stand up and show that they are big enough to be there. Van persie did that. Lukaku has not and I do not think he has the personality to be our main man.

Going onto Jose. I actually think he has done a good job to get us to where we are at the moment. The improvement has been massive and we are a different team from the van gaal days. And pep inherited a better squad than Jose. But the style of football is not good enough. At least go for t and show some passion and have a go at teams. We looked scared yesterday and couldn’t string 4 passes together. That is not good enough for our club.

11 Dec 2017 12:50:07
Stevie,

By no means was I moaning about the money spent by City. Of course, we've spent an absurd amount of money as well, whether we were forced or whether Mr. Woodward wanted to spend that money is debatable. I just agree with the above post with regards to the fact that, Pep inherited a better City squad than us, a squad that even in Pelligrini's time was able to play those quick passes and now, with Pep, they are able to press opponents as well.

Our squad lost their identity and even now, we don't really know who we are. Are we the counter attacking specialist? No, are we kinds to park the bus, not too sure. Are we the ones who play free flowing football and strike fear into the minds of the opponents? Again, no clear answer.

We need to start playing with a direction, we need to counter the way the other team plays, not become defensive. We need to have a plan, an execution, not a knee-jerk reaction to how the other team is playing.

Again, sorry if I came across as a whining United fan, crying about the money, but I wasn't, I was simply trying to make sense of what I saw.

11 Dec 2017 16:01:54
Stevie

Never said we got our free and do you know for a fact that Jose is done with what he wants or maybe there are 3 or 4 players he would like to add but has some limitations where city and good old pep no matter where he goes seems to have an endless purse to spend.

I will take mourinho over pep personally and wait and allow the man to build the team he wants and then let's see who wins what.

11 Dec 2017 20:59:40
I was exaggerating to make a point :)

10 Dec 2017 21:43:33
What a cowardly display. From the 5th minute Young and Rojo hitting long ball after long ball, even Rashford 15 minutes into the game edge of own area just hoofing it up to Lukaku.

Good players can't be happy playing like that, frightened to death to have the ball for more than 3 passes -that was a gutless display, if JM thinks that's good enough then he's at the wrong club.

Agree7 Disagree0

10 Dec 2017 21:55:45
Lukaku wow not good today didn't win a header . I know he had little support but hold up play until it arrives worst game in a Utd shirt. Sorry 😆😆.

10 Dec 2017 22:07:27
Sadly can't argue with that Boyfromburrenway.

10 Dec 2017 22:16:02
Credit where it’s due, City were just better today. The work they do on the rare occasions they don’t have the ball is very impressive indeed. Harassed us, penned us in and forced the long ball tactics. Pep played us perfectly.

10 Dec 2017 23:26:09
Surely we need to start getting some real footballers in midfield in the kroos mould and try to gain a foothold against the better teams as we can barely string a few passes together and have next to no game control or possession against the better sides . We had a good start against arsenal but much of the game was like the last stand at the Alamo with the goalie performing heroics and today at home again unable to seize any kind of control .

11 Dec 2017 06:09:46
Agree for a big centre forward he is poor in terms of winning much in the air and most times does not even jump. Ottamendi had his number all day.

10 Dec 2017 21:10:00
Blaming everyone from the owners to the cleaning staff and the dinner lady, is a very convenient way of deflecting attention away from a manager who, with a win needed to close the gap on the leaders, sets us up try and soak up all that the best attacking unit in the league has to throw at us for 90 minutes, whilst hoping for a set piece, or a lucky knock on at the other end as the result of countless, aimless long balls up to the big man.

I'm sorry, but if Pulis or Big Sam sent a team out with those instructions, everyone, including us, would rightly be slating them. Why does José, after spending what he has, get a bye ball in this regard? He's now had two seasons to come up with something more sophisticated than lump it up to the big man.

The difference between the ideas and ambitions of the two managers, was laid out there bare, for all to see today.

Agree10 Disagree3

10 Dec 2017 21:49:43
Ive been one of Jose biggest supporter's but even I have to agree Noucamp, I think he got it wrong today! He reverted to type after two promising away performances at Watford and Arsenal! Maybe it's just a bit raw so soon after the game but I thought we were pretty dreadful! It almost feels as though the season is over before it's even began which I know is stupid. We're still in a fight for top 4 I wouldn't take that for granted either!

Another big game disappointment!

10 Dec 2017 21:50:47
We need a plan and we need to stick with it. I like the 343 and think it could work well long-term, with variations depending on opponent of course.

10 Dec 2017 21:34:37
100% correct. We can't expect to reignite the glory if we play like a damp squib. Out with the bus in with the Ferrari.j

10 Dec 2017 22:40:47
Danny, I've never liked the man, but I could see the need to bring him in, especially after the LVG years of anti-football. And once he's here, I'll back him. But that was pitiful today. On a par with the Liverpool game, bearing in mind we were at home today.

10 Dec 2017 22:45:54
Beast
Who would you get to manage us.

10 Dec 2017 22:52:24
I don't want to get rid of him, jred. Like you said, we're not sitting mid-table. It just doesn't feel like a comfortable fit, for the club or for him. Just how I feel about it.

10 Dec 2017 23:03:53
99
Like I said to beast tho pal, who else is there, I'm really not sure.

10 Dec 2017 23:28:06
That's why MU need a plan Jred, start targeting certain players in the youth structure, play a certain way and formation. Start buying certain players for the first team. Start playing a certain way, then you bring in managers who fit the style of play, not bring in a manager to change everything to play the new manager's style.

Doesn't matter who coaches the Barcelona side, they'll always adopt the same style of play. It's taught the same way in La Masia. It's a philosophy. MU need an infrastructure bigger than a manager.

10 Dec 2017 23:30:56
Who's managing Barcelona's B Team just now? 😀.

10 Dec 2017 23:52:08
Monaco manager said it numerous times mate. We need a young attack minded manager, all these "Winners" have had their day, the young guns have studied them, and improved on their mistakes. Give the Monaco manager £150m and we will have us playing like the Utd of Old. As you get older you get more defensive, even happened to SAF.

11 Dec 2017 08:49:34
The Monaco manager? Who has won a grand total of one league title in Greece and 1 in France.

11 Dec 2017 08:52:30
Syd
You mean like we did we lvg?
Fans didn't like it pal so we went down the same road as everyone else, get a top manager and give him lots of cash.
Also have a read up of what butt is doing with the youth team.

10 Dec 2017 20:59:18
I've been with Jose all the way since his appointment but even I can't defend that insipid, ponderous, dare I saw cowedly performance!

As soon as I laid eyes on the team it filled me with a sense of foreboding and Deja vu. We've seen this before and it's never worked. Have no doubts this was a defensive, negative lineup!

Martial and Rashford were always going to play as auxiliary full backs. Lingard was thrust into a No 10 role in which he's never excelled, Lukaku was always going to cut an isolated figure up front. Matic and Herrera outnumber in midfield.

A more accurate description of our formation should have read 6-2-1-1.

Rashford and Martial are both CF's! Neither are adept at playing so deep. It's square pegs in round holes. It's obvious that when two of your most attacking players are so deep it's almost impossible to get out, especially against a team like City. When Rashford or Martial get the ball deep in their own half what on earth are they supposed to do with it?

We'd played some exhilarating football at Watford and Arsenal, with Young and Valencia providing the width and Martial allowed to play in support of Lukaku. He's brilliant in the final third with the ball at his feet! When he drifts to the left and runs with the ball he's such a threat. With Lingard running from deep and Lukaku in the box we're a different animal.

The best formation for the players we have in our squad is 3-5-2! We don't need to play that every week but in the big games it simply gets our best players in their most effective positions. Arsenal was the blueprint yet he retreated and reverted to type. I don't care what anybody says we were beaten as soon as the teams were announced.

City won that game in third gear. The irony being we gifted them two goals from set pieces. Huddersfield, Southampton and West Ham gave them more of a game than we did!

Agree2 Disagree2

10 Dec 2017 21:39:44
Well said Danny can’t argue with that.

10 Dec 2017 21:48:29
I was hoping Jose would play the same formation as he did against Watford and Arsenal. I like it. I hope we play it against Bournemouth. I suspected he'd chicken out like he did against Liverpool. Never mind. We have to look forward to the next game now.

10 Dec 2017 22:05:55
I was so so disappointed with today Park. Not just the result but the manner of defeat. I thought we'd a least give them a game but they just coasted through in third gear. We hardly made a tackle, stood off them and simply let them play. We couldn't counter as we we're so deep and I lost count of the number of times Rojo just punted it forward. Ironically our goal came from another one of his hopeful balls. Surely there's more to our team than hoping for a mistake or a set piece? In another of the games ironies they won the game in a way that everybody thought we would. It was supposed to be them that couldn't defend set pieces. Having said that when you can't even manage to string two passes together in the opposition half it's hard to get on set pieces in decent positions in the first place. Sadly we got what we deserved!

10 Dec 2017 22:27:10
Beat by the better team today.

10 Dec 2017 22:38:53
Agree completely Danny. The irony of us gifting two goals from set pieces is laughable. All I want to see is passion and determination from the players. It was a derby for Christ’s sake against our neighbours and title rivals. The players should have been harrying and pressuring city not giving them a moments rest. But instead we sat off and allowed them to play. We showed them so much respect and it is bitterly disappointing. The crowd played their part in creating a supportive atmosphere and the players and manager let us down today. What I saw today was not in keeping with the traditions of the club I love. City played the way we used to - with pace, creativity and passion. I have been Jose’s biggest supporter but today showed me that although we may win the league with him at some point, we will not do it in the United way. And that is not good enough for our great club. City have a long term plan and they are a club on the up. We have bought badly and our owners care about money. I would even say city are favourites for the champions league. What I saw today is one manager that lives and breathes a creative and beautiful brand of football. And I saw another that is happy to sit back and ‘hope’ for a mistake. That is the difference between the two sides. One manager see the beauty of the game whilst another see it in a more pragmatic way. We do not have bad players we have some fantastic skilful young players. If rashford and martial were playing under pep they would be flourishing like sterling and sane. It’s painful to admit but they have a manager who we should have signed after Fergie.

Where is our ambition? Where is the united of old? It died the day Fergie left. The club needs to take a hard look at itself if we want to get back to the top. We must invest in January and we must back the manager in the summer. I am sure after a few days I will be able to be less emotional and more objective of the situation. We must take each game as t comes and keep on winning. And then we must pray that our rivals do us a favour. Because that is what it will take for us to even have a chance.

10 Dec 2017 20:13:06
Ed002

Walham green east wapping, carpet cleaning rodent and boggit exterminating association.

Charity - Seva foundation

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Hendos brother

Ed001

Just like watching brazil

Charity - macmillan nurses

Fornax
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IT's ON!
June 2018.

Agree1 Disagree0

10 Dec 2017 20:26:05
Looks good I will try and get down to watch.

10 Dec 2017 20:33:49
I could make a guest appearance myself, jred if I see you there I'll buy you an ice cream.

10 Dec 2017 20:34:46
Are you wearing your posters names on the back of your shirts.

{Ed001's Note - are you offering to pay for the printing costs? Only we need a sponsor with deep pockets to get Ed002's team name on the front!}

10 Dec 2017 20:38:28
Maybe sort something out nearer the time.

10 Dec 2017 20:51:46
Ed I will help out in any way I can, now my pockets aren't as deep as kens.

10 Dec 2017 23:17:43
Anyone else play much 11 a side?

10 Dec 2017 23:18:56
Just make sure Ken shirt says, Ken the Irish pirlo.

 


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