Manchester United banter 3

 

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16 Oct 2017 10:35:13
I always leave it at least a day or so before commenting on games to allow the emotion time to leave the system. Especially if I'm feeling disappointed by a result.

I was very confident before the game on Saturday, we have been playing well, while Liverpool were suspect defensively.

So a draw and what felt like a poor performance was disappointing in the aftermath.

So first thing first was is a poor performance? It's a funny thing that for most fans performance is linked to result and more importantly expected result. For example if you expect us to win and we don't then there is an automatic assumption that the performance was poor.

For me I think we have a tendency to judge a game by the standards and expectations we have rather than that of the manager, players and club.
If Jose told his players to sit deep, keep it tight, limit the space for Liverpool to attack, while trying to draw them out to create space in behind to launch quick counter attacks then how did the team perform?
I think that is exactly how Mourinho set the team up. He chose to drop Mata for Young. That was a decision based on pace and ability to spring counter attacks.
So did we play well according to how Mourinho set us up? I think we did. The players did everything asked of them bar being able to take chances at the other end. The Lukaku chance stands out. If he puts that shot away we win 1-0 at Anfield and everyone says what a clever tactical performance we put in. Bar one world class save from DDG which came about due to a momentary lapse of concentration from us Liverpool didn't have a sniff.

Now that's not to say that is how I would have wanted us to play, nor was I particularly "entertained" watching it. But every title winning campaign we have ever seen at our club has seen performances like that at least once or twice a season.

If it wasn't for City's scintillating form at the start of the season we would be top and the only unbeaten side in the league. Last season city started like this then ended up third. So let's not aware them the title just yet.

Anyone with half a brain knew that when Mourinho took over we would see some performances like this. Pragmatic defensive tight games particularly away from home against top opposition. So let's not whine about it now. And let's not forget we have put 4 past several opposition already this season, so let's not pretend we are being served up bore draws every week.

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16 Oct 2017 10:54:50
Good post Shappy, like you said we all knew he would do his which is why I am so bothered. If ever there was a time to go after then then it was last weekend. We didn't sit that deep first half and even parts of the second half, you could see the forwards trying to press when Mignolet was taking a goal kick.

I guess I'm just really disappointed with how poorly we played.

16 Oct 2017 11:08:32
AJH

I just as disappointed with how we played. It was Liverpool team that have been very poor defensively with chuckles the clown in between the sticks. You can understand if the first 10-15 minutes were steady to get our feet into the game. It was embrassing. We made Liverpool look good. I could have understood if we had gone to the Etihad and played against City and tried to stop them playing their football. With Liverpool we didn’t even do that.

16 Oct 2017 11:29:08
When Burnley had more of a go than we did then you see the problem.

16 Oct 2017 11:43:49
My concern with this approach (other than it being dreadful to watch), is that when you are in a league with only one team in contention for the title, parking the bus is a sensible and pragmatic approach with neither side extending their lead in the league. The problem now is that there are possibly 5 teams who play expansive football and could on their day beat us and finish above us in the league. If we go for parking the bus against all of these teams then we will likely lose 20 points and that allows the other teams to take advantage in the long run.

16 Oct 2017 12:11:02
9 times out of 10 United Liverpool are crap games .
We always say form goes out the window and are then surprised when form goes out the window .
We all know Jose can be a pragmatic coach and are then surprised when he is .
We have been playing some great stuff of late maybe not silky smooth footy people want but the the strong efficient way Jose plays .

Jose won't set up and get United playing the way city are but at the same time people keep telling me pep isn't that good a coach?

Jose is a top manager and we look like a Jose team this is what you get with him .

16 Oct 2017 13:09:31
Great post Shappy you always find a way to bring some perspective to the debate.

16 Oct 2017 13:33:29
We set up to let Liverpool attack us and then hit them on the break when they commited men forward, give them enough rope to hang themselves so to speak, but Liverpool never commited the number of players forward that we needed for this to happen so they were quite easy to defend against but also very difficult to counter attack against as there were always nunbers around Miki and Lukaku meaning they never got a kick.

Both managers were too cautious in my opinion but both will be content with the point and we move on to easier games with our unbeaten run in tact and an extra point ahead of Arsenal and Chelsea with a big away game out the way.

I disagree that United games against Liverpool are always boring, there have been some classics over the years, but generally they need an early goal to open up the game, if this had happened you would have seen both teams committing more men forward creating more spaces on the counter.

16 Oct 2017 14:36:05
Man United and Liverpool last games
0.0
1.1
0.0
1.1
2.1
0.1
Quite often over hyped rarely a great game of football to watch imo .

16 Oct 2017 21:34:04
Good posts gents.

Absorbing for the counter attack for me does not equate to lumping it up to the big lad up top, incidentally one that can't make it stick nor beat a man, not for a team as big and expensive as United.

Playing an overall weaker team in poorer form than you, and catering for their strengths whilst not exploiting their weaknesses, is also not something to admire particularly.

Lastly Sky, in their uniquely irritating way, have ridiculously overhyped the Anfield game for two seasons in a row now and it's ended up a washout. They need to chill out.

16 Oct 2017 22:11:27
Shappy, you've got to stop being so reasonable and I mean that in all seriousness. Please stop being so accepting of a poor performance by both the manager and the players by suggesting Jose might just have pulled off some tactical masterclass.

Jose complained after the match that we were outnumbered in midfield. Was it a surprise to anyone that they played the three guys in midfield that they did? and hey guess what; they overran the two guys we played in midfield. Who would have thought?

We know Mkhitaryan gets lost in fast intense games. Not surprising he was pretty much non-existent so why pick him?

Then there's just the whole negativity of the tactics. What must the players think when the manager shows he has so little confidence in them to beat what is a pretty average Liverpool team? Not exactly inspiring is it?

You say we shouldn't be surprised by Jose's negative tactics in these sort of games. You might be right but that doesn't mean we have to like it and say it's Ok because it isn't. Sooner rather than later you've got to show your mettle when it really counts; that's the mark of true sporting champions. Not hiding in their shell because it's a little bit difficult this week.

And to top it all, our manager is still living out of a suitcase and all but says he would prefer to work somewhere else. Nice one!

So, I'm sorry Shappy but with the greatest respect I don't go along with your pervertedly rational reasoning that all is ok.

17 Oct 2017 06:58:17
MancMan meet Beast, Beast meet MancMan.

17 Oct 2017 08:41:14
Lol AJH. I do find myself often agreeing with the Beast. Where is he by the way? Beast; are you out there?

17 Oct 2017 09:40:33
Wait until we lose a game ;)

Only joking Beast, you aren't MAZE.

16 Oct 2017 09:31:21
On a positive note following saturday. Did anyone see perieras goal last night? Also pogs don't look like he's too far off a comeback.

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Virgil van Dijk

16 Oct 2017 05:41:33
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new player profile about, Virgil van Dijk

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Premier League Match Preview Monday 16th October 2017

16 Oct 2017 04:30:09
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Premier League Match Preview Monday 16th October 2017

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15 Oct 2017 20:12:44
A lot is being said about how poor a performance it was. And it most def wasn't great, but even with a poor performance livepoo couldn't score (says a lot about them) Jose is always going to set up that way away to bigger teams. Lukaku needed a better game but he also needed more help.

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16 Oct 2017 03:31:43
Exactly as I mentioned earlier.
If we’re bad what makes Liverpool? 😂😂
And Kloppity and the players keep saying they deserve the 3 pts. Deserve? What a joke. You can’t break ya down and score when we’re not playing 100% so nothing you can say abt deserving 😂👍👍 what a bunch of losers.
I think with our situation we go there not to lose and if we can get the 3 pts great. We are not a mid table team this season and we need to position ourselves within catching distance and overtake City. It’s easy to criticize and by all means do but think abt it; if we play like last Sat we are bad but if we play entertaining and lose there will still be people saying wrong setup, bad managing and Jose still not good enough 😂😂😂. So best is do the job which Jose did and fight another day when team is back to strength. You can never satisfy yourself let alone everyone.
Onward to CL and as long as we continue positive run we can’t be that worse off. Bear in mind we will lose a game or two in time to come but that’s football right?

16 Oct 2017 06:39:02
How about we play entertaining and win.

16 Oct 2017 08:35:34
That would be the best AJH.
I feel it would be i the following manner:
1. Don’t lose
2. Win or at worst draw
3. Entertain
Obviously it will differ from many people but I can assur you if we lose there is more criticism than anyone can defend 😂😂.

16 Oct 2017 10:05:30
We've spent over 20 years winning and entertaining, why do we need to change now? I get trophies a E to mpirtNt but so is our identity. To be fair it was only one game, we have been one and expansive before that this year.

16 Oct 2017 13:36:25
AJH,

We spent about 20 years doing that under Fergie but very much not in his last 3-4 years, do you think we have won and entertained since Ronaldo left in 2009? This season is the most entertaining we have been since then so I am happy to give the benefit of the doubt at the moment.

16 Oct 2017 18:03:48
Fair point GDS, I did caveat a couple of my posts pointing out we had started very well. I guess I just don't trust Jose, don't really like him but prepared to accept and support him if he rebuilds us and gets us back competing. I think the second half against Southampton was just as worrying, we seemed to have no answers.

However, only 2 goals conceded, unbeaten, and generally playing well. Onwards and upwards.

15 Oct 2017 19:27:24
what does everyone make of Joses comments on managing elsewhere. Obviously I don't expect him to stay here for ever but I don't think it's a coincidence that the comments have come at the same time as a new contract being reported. Could be adding 2 and 2 together and getting 5 but it's just what I think. I'm wondering have the Eds heard anything regarding a new contract. Thanks as always.

{Ed002's Note - It is nothing to do with any contract Dan.}

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15 Oct 2017 19:39:32
I think he will prob manage Portugal at some point and then prob retire after that. Hopefully he’s at united for another contract after this tho.

{Ed001's Note - it is not Portugal that he is eyeing up.}

15 Oct 2017 19:45:43
Thanks Eds. So I'm guessing PSG is the next destination after this contract if he can get there.

{Ed001's Note - he is just not entirely happy with United and sees PSG as a decent alternative. He was opening the door....}

15 Oct 2017 20:06:15
Sorry to keep asking but whys he not entirely happy. I think most people thought it was the job he wanted for a long time.

{Ed002's Note - I dealt with the situation before, there is no reason to raise it again.}

15 Oct 2017 20:08:34
Good time to manage PSG, they are on the brink of dominating football for a few years. I also don't think Jose is happy that it's taking so long for him to assemble the team he's trying to build. Big season this one. I think MU will need to spend big next summer to keep Jose happy. I also think one more huge spend is needed this summer to be up there with best in Europe. We have a good squad, but our first XI could be better.

15 Oct 2017 22:23:40
Is this that some at the club still see a blue tinge around Jose, being away from his family etc?

15 Oct 2017 23:32:46
If your serious about Jose's attitude to Manchester and Manchester Utd then this guy really needs to get a grip.

Manchester is a fantastic international city with lots to offer anyone who visits or lives here. I understand Jose has family in London but it's only 200 miles away which is about 45 minutes in a helecopter.

Manchester Utd is one of the biggest clubs in the world with a fantastic tradition. Jose has what seems like an unlimited budget, great facilities and licence to manage how he likes.

Jose need stop being Alan Partridge and sort himself a Manchester home. How much are we paying this guy for this amateur approach? If you're really suggesting that he's still unhappy in Manchester then it's pathetic and I have no patience with it. I'd rather he sod off to Paris with his BS anti football and we get a manager who really wants to be here.

Jose has this opportunity to rejuvinate a below par giant. He has everything he could desire to achieve this. If he isn't excited by this challenge then he should retire from football.

16 Oct 2017 00:37:19
Well said good post.
I agree.

16 Oct 2017 04:48:21
MancMan. I think you hit the nail on the head. I've said before that Manchester is a fantastic city. The north west is a brilliant place. So if he's unsettled, then I think he should tell the club and move on.
But I think it goes deeper than that. I think he's not entirely happy with the way the club is being run. A lot of commercial demands and nowhere near enough attention or affection from the owners towards the football side. People will point at Pogba and Lukaku being big money signings and they were. However, you look at what psg and city are doing and it pales into insignificance. They are spending vast amount of money on players. Their infrastructure is vastly superior and more modern than ours (ed002 has mentioned this several times) . Their youth academy is superior to ours. City lost mendy to injury and they're going to spend big on a replacement in January. We've had no left back since Evra left and no wingers since giggs and Ronaldo. Yet we stutter along in the transfer market wondering if Perisic is worth £45m. City and PSG have a plan. They want to get all the best players into their clubs and will do anything to achieve it. Our lot have commercial interests first and football is a distant second.
I think Mourinho has found out the hard way that this club talks the talk but no longer walks the walk in footballing terms. I'll be surprised if he doesn't leave in the next 18 months.

{Ed001's Note - you have to remember that Pogba and Lukaku were signed because they were seen as being good commercial signings, whereas the players Jose wanted to complete the squad were not. Whether or not you agree with his desire to add Perisic, for instance, the simple fact of the matter is he is the manager and it is his decision. He lives and dies by those decisions. The problem is that he will get judged on the team assembled when he feels the club are not doing all they could to get the players he wants. Jose wanted Perisic, the club did not do all they could to get him, they simply refused to meet the asking price. That has irked him.

It is not really about living in Manchester, though that has increased the problems. It is about giving the manager the club's full backing.}

16 Oct 2017 07:18:20
It's quite funny really. I remember the reasons people didn't want Jose here as manager and they were that he plays negative football, he builds teams for short term IE wants players 29/ 30 and ready for NOW, not in the future and that he only sticks around for a couple of years. Well you have to say people's reasons were correct.

16 Oct 2017 10:08:21
That's pretty direct MancMan but I get where you are coming from, I thought his comments were out of order but not untypical of him.

16 Oct 2017 10:38:31
Maybe so AJH, but let me put it another way:

"So my girlfriend said that she's only keeping a few essential items at my house because she doesn't see much of a future in our relationship because I only bought her a Ferrari and a large diamond ring but I wasn't that excited about the luxury holiday she was proposing. Also, she prefers the look of the French guy down the road whose mansion is slightly bigger than mine with nicer carpets"

16 Oct 2017 11:30:57
The French guy sounds nice, do you have his number?

16 Oct 2017 13:39:24
Ooh I love a nice carpet.

16 Oct 2017 14:57:50
So does Jose by the looks of it GDS2, although he's probably likely to burn his knees on it.

AJH the number is 0800 GREED.

15 Oct 2017 16:59:03
Got to agree with Ed 004 further down, no one is going to be happy with the performance, we all know that. But a point away against one of the big teams is always a good point. Liverpool are a force going forward and who knows, we might of gone for the win and been beaten 3-0. I'm sure there would be a big meltdown on here if we did. Let's see how we play at our place now. Get Bailly and Rashford back to 100% and Pogba back and we'll be a lot better.

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15 Oct 2017 17:50:03
After cooling down a bit, i'm not as bothered now by it all we didn't lose, I just wish I never watched it and probably won't watch the big away games in the future.

15 Oct 2017 19:26:15
Feel for the fans who paid to watch this. A point is good and better than a loss but not looking forward to the big away games now.

15 Oct 2017 19:42:56
Does anyone actually believe that is Jose had a fully fit squad he would have adopted a different strategy. Maybe we would have been better on the counter and Pogba would be able to hold on to the ball but in essence the bus would well and truly be parked, just as it will against spurs, arsenal, city and chelsea away.

15 Oct 2017 16:44:23
Who else feels yesterday was a game prefect for Fellaini. We had no one holding up the ball. De Gea had to kick long and there is no one better at collecting those kicks than Fellaini. We could have had a better control in the second and final third with Fellaini than Mkhitaryan.

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15 Oct 2017 17:03:28
I feel Jose felt Fellaini was a huge loss Shan. He isn't a fan of Herrera.

15 Oct 2017 17:55:15
To be fair Syd, herrera has been awful this season. Yesterday it was coin toss between Mkhitaryan and Herrera on who was the worst player on the pitch. Fellaini does provide that option against a team that likes to press.

15 Oct 2017 21:56:21
Herrera did okay if you ask me? He made more tackles than all 4 centre halves combined, just didn't have many options when on the ball.

15 Oct 2017 16:07:30
There have been some disgraceful headlines, enemy of football being one and I think some seem to fall for it. Yesterday I thought the team looked jaded, players travelling on international duty minds elsewhere where they had clocked up air miles. It's not an excuse but preparation had to be affected, why play such big games straight after an international break?
Arsenal went there and were wide open, Liverpool sat back, picked them off enjoying all the lovely space. The tactics yesterday were almost right but we needed to break far better, it was going to be difficult because Liverpool were not expansive and were waiting for us to commit. We didn't score because we didn't transition the ball well enough from Defense to attack, didn't control the ball when it got up front. Martial and Miki were very poor and it probably highlighted just how good Pogba is at joining the team together, also shows how we didn't buy the wide attacker we should have done

We gained a point at Anfield, whilst rivals Chelsea lost at an easier place to go to and Arsenal did the same. It seems the media would be happier if we had played wide open and been beaten so they can hail the media darlings of Liverpool again, the bastions of all that is good. In all the bluster and noise about how we played it's another game of not winning by the Liverpool manager, maybe the noise deflects away from him but for how long? I am happy with a point from Anfield, but maybe next season our expectations should be higher, for now a point is acceptable.

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15 Oct 2017 16:33:37
I said similar RM, next season Jose will have all the players he needs so I expect him to go to Anfield and not shut up shop. It's fine doing that after we score or even whilst it's 0.0 for 75 mins, but expected more at some stage and it just never happened.

That being said Klopp too wasn't committing more forward so he was weary of the counter too. I feel disappointed because Liverpool's defence are useless and we didn't even try to have a go. Have to agree about Martial and Miki though, Martial looked far too casual and Miki was just bad.

Very important we beat huddersfield next week. get back to winning ways ASAP.

15 Oct 2017 16:41:32
Come on Red Man, its doom for us. Anti football anti entertainment and everything that's anti. One shouldn't back a team when we draw at Anfield.

15 Oct 2017 18:04:00
I agree Red Man and I posted yesterday that it as a strange old set of results so maybe the international break played a past. However, it I was still disappointed with our general approach. Southampton second half and yesterday second half were not great but over 8 games that's not a lot to worry about.

15 Oct 2017 18:07:07
Syd
Everyone said that last season but here we are again.
The fact is Jose has, does and will approach games like that again .
He has done it through out his career and to be fair most times it works.

15 Oct 2017 18:41:07
He hasn't always done this Jred, you are wrong.

And last season we were even further behind in transition.

This winter and next summer Jose should have his chosen team.

Left-back finally sorted, Right attack and probably a CM/ RB and CB.

This team is not complete yet. It was always going to take a few summers to get the team he wanted.

15 Oct 2017 18:55:33
Why would anyone visit an inferior team with a team you have assembled with hundreds of millions, to go there and park 10 players in the penalty area? Is that what Pep would do? I get doing it when you are missing 3-4 key players and not having the team you want yet (finalised team built by him), but you don't go to play an inferior team with the superior side you have built (chosen) and manage one shot on target. That would be embarrassing. Yesterday was embarrassing, but I could understand it with Bailly, Pogba, Fellaini out and Rash and Jones not 100%.

15 Oct 2017 20:18:13
Jose has always done it and will probably always continue to do it, he calculates that a point is a good result. He may be a great Manager but he picks games where he settles for a point.

15 Oct 2017 20:25:12
Syd
No pep wouldn't but Jose is not pep in fact both have very different styles.
He has done this his entire career in fact he has Been far more successful with the underdog statues than the super club .
He has always had a pragmatic defensive style to his game it a big reason some didn't want him at United.
Personally I'm a fan his record speaks for its self.

15 Oct 2017 20:26:52
By the way no football team is ever complete.

15 Oct 2017 21:23:08
You are correct, you can always improve a team and a manager will always want to add players, but we have holes in ours which Jose will want to fix this summer and if we had a sugar daddy owner would have fixed last summer. I think this time next year we will have a side Jose is happy with. Shappy mentioned Rose, Fabinho and Griezmann the other day. I think these three are players Jose wants and would go straight into our line-up if they were signed.

15 Oct 2017 23:44:04
Sorry to disagree Red Man but yesterday was crap and unacceptable.

16 Oct 2017 07:35:28
Mancman

It was horrible to watch but we had many visits there and got nothing so just putting a point in perspective. How dare we not lay down in front of the press favourites! The champions lost to the worst team in the league, Arsenal lost and City got 7 but it’s terrible Jose who didn’t let the Scousers play that gets the headlines. The fact Klopp held his team back is lost on most because he is still their darling, the press like him, so it has to be Jose’s fault. Teams come to OT and are even more defensive and when they got a point last season no one said their manager was the “enemy of football”. Personally I just like to get that game over with, not because I fear them these days but more because of the hype from the press riddled with Scouse sympathisers and ex players if they win.

16 Oct 2017 09:54:27
Sorry to disagree again RedMan but it's up to the manager to work out how to beat a team no matter how they set up and play. Jose's comments about Klopp not giving him opportunity to win the game because he kept a three man midfield were depressing.

Is this the future for playing half decent teams? Just reactionary? Liverpool have weaknesses and we should have got at them. For example, we could have pressed better from the front. Lukaku could have bullied and harrassed their defense more. We could have matched them with three in midfield so they were less able to control the game. I know we had midfielders injured but its up to Jose to plan for this sort of thing by preparing our younger midfielders such as McTominay and Pereira with better experience in previous games so they are ready to start at Anfield. Or maybe he could have bought another midfielder in the summer such as Matuidi. There are lots of things the not so special one could have done to try and win that match without playing into Liverpool's hands.

We were fortunate to get a point because Liverpool created more and better opportunities than we did.

16 Oct 2017 19:58:30
I think it is where we are as a team, we are still short of at least two players plus short in midfield. Matuidi? Didn’t I read rumours Pogba didn’t want to play with him?

We are 15 months beyond the end of a very poor period for the club, we rarely dominated at Anfield under SAF, sometimes scoring late winners after awful displays. John O’Shea as an example. Seems there are selective memories when everything was rosy.

15 Oct 2017 14:12:52
I see an average performance has brought out the 'jose out' brigade.

Embarassing.

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15 Oct 2017 14:29:55
It was poor performance, but a point away at Liverpool is a decent result.

I get the impression that certain people on here have been waiting around for the last few months for a chance to bang the I hate Jose drum.

15 Oct 2017 15:15:15
Who's asking for him to be sacked? There's nothing wrong with criticising a manager for playing disgraceful football in a match fans look forward to all season.

15 Oct 2017 15:55:26
Do you think he cares? If you had offered Mourinho a clean sheet yesterday and a great chance for lukaku do you think he would have taken it i know for sure he would have done.

15 Oct 2017 16:00:13
I certainly don't want Jose gone, however I do fear that even if he had all the players he wanted at his disposal, has his perfect team of players, I feel he'd still play that way and for me that is unacceptable and embarrassing for a club of our stature. By the end of the summer we will likely have a formidable and complete line-up of players to Jose's liking, I do not want to see the same next season. I wouldn't mind playing that way for a tight 2.1 win, or 1.0, but playing that way for a point is embarrassing. I hope it was genuinely because he felt we didn't have the team available to compete although I disagree with that, we will know for sure next season because we will finally sort the remaining issues in the next two windows. Hope this is only because we are still in transition and he wasn't happy with the selection of players available to him.

 


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