Manchester United Banter Archive December 16 2019

16 Dec 2019 19:28:25
If something gets said once on this site it becomes a fact.
So united can't break down teams that sit deep is the theme of the month.
If people actually look at spurs against us, it was a typical jose performances, sat deep played long stayed compact. Everton in the second half where wide open .

But the rule is every top six team play attacking footy against united and are wide open . Ever team outside the top 6 just sit back don't attack .
Just shows how many just read headlines .
Always amazed how much people judge a game solely on the score . My granddaughter is bad for it .

16 Dec 2019 20:50:38
If true then what happens if I say;

Jred is alway wrong

Or

Shappy is by far the most attractive and intelligent poster on the site

Or maybe

Ole is a managerial god and Pep isn't fit to lick his boots

Are they all now facts? 😂.

16 Dec 2019 20:52:03
Your tht old Jred. 😂😂😂🤪🤪.

16 Dec 2019 21:39:13
Shappy, you will of completely changed your mind in about an hour.
Singh
Had kids young.

16 Dec 2019 23:16:53
Nice Jred. Hoping everything okay with you and i should now pay you more respect as your older then me. 🙈.

17 Dec 2019 08:24:03
Nearly 12 hours later and I still think Shappy is by far the most attractive and intelligent poster on the site😋😂.

17 Dec 2019 09:13:43
Chapter 13, United and their issues with the LOW BLOCK.

17 Dec 2019 10:15:48
And for all the 'cynicism' of such posts jred, you did not add a counter to this view.

17 Dec 2019 11:50:21
Jred, there will always be the exception to the rule.

Yet if you look at the bigger picture we have beaten 6 of the top 7 and drawn the other game, while we have only won twice against the bottom 13 teams.

We average less than 40% possession in the games we have won, and over 55% possession in the games we have lost.

When team concede possession to us we can't break them down. While other sides have the ball we exploit the space and win the game.

Yes against Spurs they sat deep, yet we had 46% possession against Spurs the goals came from a wonder strike by Rashford and a penalty won by running into the space in behind.

We have won loads of penalties this season, and all of them have come from teams bringing down our players as they run in behind.

As a side we do well when we can attack the space in behind teams, when they sit deep and concede possession to us we struggle to break them down.

Yes Everton were wide open in the second half, and our poor finishing probably cost us that game. But again Everton have were the exception to the rule. Few teams have come to Old Trafford this season and been so open. The ones that have tend to be in the current top 7.

That isn't based on the socre, its based on watching 17 EPL games this season. Which is backed up by the facts.

17 Dec 2019 12:46:35
Shaps it isn't, its following the party line and not really watching t games .
Spouting tactical post after post that don't really add up and are based on headlines.
Some of the teams in the Europa couldn't of played more defensive and we scored plenty .
Good teams defend as a team control possession etc.
The top teams don't concede many .
But remember all the poor teams outside the top 6 just defend and the teams in the top 6 six ( who don't concede many ) are wide open.

16 Dec 2019 12:54:06
Sounds like Angel Gomes is on his way. In two weeks time he can sign a pre-contract with an over-seas club, with several interested in him, including Juventus, Barcelona, Dortmund and Leipzig apparently.

Yesterday he deleted all mention of United from his instagram account.

Pair this with Ole saying more players would benefit from having Mason Greenwood's temperament, then it appears that there might be a parting of the ways.

If Gomes does leave then I wish him luck, and hope he succeeds.

Unfortunately I feel he hasn't done enough with the chances he has been given to really push his way into the team. A few nice touches, but he drifts in and out of the game far too much currently at professional level. While as a side, we can't really afford to carry passengers at the moment.

When you compare Greenwood and Williams impact in the first team to that of Gomes and Chong it becomes clear while the former two of them are ready to play a part on a more regular basis, the later two need more games at this level or at the Championship level to kick on.

16 Dec 2019 14:13:33
Positive signs if players who do not show the right attitude are once again shown the door.

16 Dec 2019 14:58:37
Shappy. Both Chong and Gomes have not grabbed their chances whenever they have played.
If they do not have fight in them, it's better they leave.

Brandon Williams is an example where the manager is rewarding for his performances.
Yesterday Ole was gushing over Greenwood. Soon, he too will start.
The right attitude is needed from players to make their stake at the club.

16 Dec 2019 15:45:41
I said it before Chong and Gomes look too small and skinny in stature and i don't think they are ready for the prem league.

Good luck to them if they go.

16 Dec 2019 16:20:32
Singh, I think both need a year in the Championship. Play every week in a more physical league and they will learn how they need to adapt against physically stronger opposition. Simple as that.

But unless they sign long term deals the club isn't going to send them out on loan.

Both are super talented, and in a few years time might be top young players. But they seem to want it all now, they will need to get their head down and fight for it.

16 Dec 2019 18:21:25
there not good enough to play in our team.


they have had chances and looked no where near ready.

16 Dec 2019 18:34:11
If they don’t want to stay at Manchester Utd then they are all welcome to leave. Chong has looked woeful every time I’ve seen him play for the first team, and Gomes is a MOTD highlights reel player.

16 Dec 2019 20:58:22
Let's not get spiteful. They are talented young lads who rightly or wrongly feel they should be getting more playing time.

When Sancho moves to Dortmund and becomes a star at 18/ 19 the same age as these lads can you blame them for believing they are ready. Especially when their club is linked with a move for Sancho.

Are they getting the best advice, who has their ear. Plus it does not help when the side they are trying to get into isn't playing well. Do they look at Andreas Pereira and Jesse Lingard in their current form and think fair enough. Or do they believe in themselves to do better than those playing ahead of them.

This is made harder when Greenwood and Williams are getting regular playing time.

I hope they make it at the top level, either with us or elsewhere. Either way it's another success story for our academy.

Personally I don't think they are ready, I think they need a loan. But it looks like they try their luck elsewhere. I wish them the best.

16 Dec 2019 23:21:55
I don't think they have right attitude to succeed here. It is not like our club don't give youth chances.

They will get chances if they are good enough and it doesn't look like they are ready or they are just not good enough.

Look at Mason, Brendan and Axel they look the part.

Pereira waited years for his chance and he is getting it now.

17 Dec 2019 10:24:24
I don't think it is Spite Shappy. Macheda and Januzaj made more impact when they were given chances, it simply means not all are cut out for utd. G. Rossi comes to mind.

16 Dec 2019 05:02:32
Lot of rumours about Haaland and probably what we need at the moment to give the squad a boost in January.

He's just 19 and coming from a lower league, so it might be a risk but he could end up being a very good signing for us at the moment. He looks physically strong, mobile and very clinical in his finishing. He is high on confidence, hungry for goals and looking to prove himself and probably the right time for him and United to come together.

He reminds me a bit of Van Persie (not talking about the first touch) - the way he tries to get away from players and his finishing with his left foot is sort of similar. Also, it is incredible how calm and composed he is in front of goal at such a young age.

Sign him and another creative midfielder in January and that can really help us for the rest of the season in a big way.

16 Dec 2019 07:33:37
LPU.
I like 3 main characteristics in him.
First he is a "Natural" striker
Secondly, he is "hungry" for goals.
Thirs, he looks so powerful and therefore will improve our general hold up play.

16 Dec 2019 09:07:30
He would be a good signing but only if we sign a very good no 10 or pogba suddenly decides to show up and doesn't get injured after jan.

Unless the people behind them shape up, the forwards are going to come up empty more often than not.

16 Dec 2019 08:58:47
'Another creature midfielder'. A creative midfielder, you mean.

16 Dec 2019 09:02:46
Haaland is similar to Lukaku, looks strong, but his hold up play isn't great. Both live for goals, both are better at running the channels than being the target man, and both probably work better with a player near them rather than as the lone striker.

He looks a real talent, but I wouldn't say he will be a better player than Greenwood. For that reason I would look for someone who is closer to or in fact is the finished article. Someone who can play in a different way to Martial/ Greenwood/ Rashford who all look to run in behind or move into the inside channels and cut back in. We need a striker who'll play with his back to goal and then lay the ball off to runners either from midfield or from wider areas. We need a target man, or at least someone who can play like that.

Cavani or Mandzukic would be good short term options, if we wanted someone more long term I would look to someone like Maxi Gomez or Victor Osimhen although Osimhen is still very young himself.

16 Dec 2019 09:09:34
And he will put his head to the numerous crosses that our wingers play.

16 Dec 2019 10:08:22
I m sure that Fergie would have liked someone like Haaland - for his determination and focus.
While he s still far from being the finished article, he has the will to improve.

16 Dec 2019 12:00:00
Shappy, I don't think we need a target man. At the moment whenever we break on the counter we seem to be doing pretty well most of the time, although in the final third we seem to mess with our final pass or take hasty shots. With the inconsistencies in our forward line and the lack of clinical finishing when it matters most, we should be looking for someone like Haaland. Also, he's just 19 and has time to improve on his other areas as well.

I do however agree that someone like Cavani could really boost the team's performances and help some of the youngsters to settle down without too much pressure on their shoulders. But, we should be mindful of our recent history with signing big name players and how it worked out.

It is difficult to compare Haaland with Greenwood as each have their own strengths and weakness, but Haaland already looks physically ready and tailor-made for the premier league and would offer us a presence in the opposition box and against teams who defend in numbers and are physically dominating he could be a real asset from corners, set pieces and crosses. Greenwood looks a fantastic talent and is more of a skillful, technical player with a great left foot. If he keeps improving and playing the way he has, he should soon replace the likes of Lingard/ Perreira in the first team.

Shan, there is really no point in our wingers putting crosses into the box, if neither Rashford/ Martial are willing to make those clever runs and nor are they aerially dominant to put any pressure on the opposition defense either.

16 Dec 2019 12:45:07
LetsPlayUnited, Haaland is deceptive in that he doesn't get stuck in physically as much as you would expect for a lad of his size. In the UCL this season he has won 3 aerial challenges in 6 games.

He might well develop that part of his game and he does have the physical attributes to do so. But as of now he isn't that sort of player.

When I say target man I don't mean a goal hanger waiting for the ball to be pumped up to him. We don't need a target man to play on the counter, we have players who can run the channels and use their pace to win those balls in behind.

We need a target man who'll play with their back to goal, back into a centre back, hold him off when the ball gets played into them then lay it off to an on rushing attacker to create 1v1's when teams sit deep and apply the low block.

Currently that isn't Haaland's game. He wants to run the channels rather than have a dust up with a centre back.

Haaland will struggle to score against sides that play in a low block and defend in numbers as he won't have the space to play in and we lack the imaginative passer who can find a round the corner pass, or thread the eye of a needle kind of ball through a packed back four.

He isn't the kind of striker who'll offer us anything more than we already have bar being slightly more clinical than our current options. He would add a 4th and 5th goal against teams we are beating 3-0, but he won't be the guy to make the difference when we are struggling 1-1 against a side who are defending deep and in numbers.

He's a taller one footed Greenwood, who's a year further along in his development. If we didn't have Greenwood then Haaland would be a sensible signing. But why bring in a player who plays the same way, but is more limited when we have potentially a better player who just needs game time to develop.

16 Dec 2019 12:51:54
Right LPU, and that is the reason that we may look to someone who can do that. What a Zlatan or a Lukaku used to do. All our forward options right now are what the Barcelona team call the false no. 9. We do not have an out and out striker in our team right now. At this point, a Fellaini is what the team is crying out for, something different to all the "running in behind" that our sprinters do for 90 min.

16 Dec 2019 12:57:03
I think we need a creative midfielder, a clever number 10 before signing anyone else.

16 Dec 2019 13:27:44
Shan you clearly haven't seen him then, he looks big but he is as useless as lukaku in the air.

16 Dec 2019 13:36:21
Shan, the issue is running in behind is how Haaland gets 90% of his goals.

He doesn't add anything from that perspective. He might be a more clinical but that is hard to judge as he plays in a weaker league for a side that plays offensive football. he averages 4-5 chances a game while our forwards average 1-2 chances per game.

Although I'm not a fan of doing it as each player is their own player and with their own individual talents. But if we are to liken Haaland to another player it would be Lukaku, while Greenwood could be likened to RvP.

While both were consistent goalscorers, RvP was the far more rounded player. However, at 18/ 19 years old Lukaku due to being more physically advanced was making a bigger impact at the professional level. Yet by the time they were both 22/ 23 RvP was a far more talented player.

Haaland is big and strong, but he dozen't play to his size, like Lukaku he runs channels and is clinical so scores most of his chances. Whereas, RvP was two footed, used clever movement as well as running the channels and was capable of regularly scoring the world class goals Lukaku rarely managed.

In Greenwood we have a player who if he fulfils his potential will be a far better more rounded player than Haaland in 2-3 years time. He just needs game time to develop. So signing another similar player who will take that game time away from him doesn't make sense.

If we are to sign another striker (and we do need to in my opinion) then it should be a player who can play with their back to goal and offer us something completely different to what we have. A player who offers a tactically different option to players like Martial and Greenwood, not someone very similar who'll just take minutes away from them and offer nothing different tactically.

16 Dec 2019 15:18:37
Haaland actually scored 6 goals running in behind this season which is less that 25% not 90%😂.

16 Dec 2019 16:06:36
Shappy from what little I have seen of Haaland, he uses his huge frame very well to ride off challenges and take the ball forward and I see no similarity with Greenwood as I have never seen Greenwood do that - not in the first team atleast.

I understand your concern about Greenwood's development, but they both are different type of players - Greenwood being more skillful, technical and clinical while Haaland being more physical, can take on players and is clinical. You would also need to see the situation with Martial who has been far too inconsistent and recently getting injured every now and then and if he doesn't justify his talents with more consistent performances this season and the next, his future could be up in the air. Rashford also remains inconsistent so we do need options upfront. Anyway having the four of Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Haaland along with James would give us lot more options upfront.

I believe that Haaland could offer a lot more than what people think he is capable of. One thing I really like about him is his instincts in the box, always on the move and finds himself in the right positions inside the D. I guess Ole is the only person who knows him better than all of us so let's see where this goes.

16 Dec 2019 16:04:56
All this debating over how he is like or how he will play looks like it is going to go to waste, salzburg paper's reporting he is likely to end up at leipzig or dortmund.

16 Dec 2019 17:06:14
common_sense moyes, except for the Ed's insights everything else we debate means nothing to be honest. We have no control over anything else and debating is the least we can do to express our opinions.

All in all everyone on here does add value to this site one way or the other.

16 Dec 2019 19:19:17
Have people really seen that much of him.

16 Dec 2019 21:02:57
Watched every UCL game. He isn't a bully boy target man.

He might one day, but then the same was thought of Lukaku. Or that Pogba might use his physicality in his game. Not all big strong players rough and tumble their way through a match.

Personally I would be surprised if he came to United. My monies on Dortmund.

16 Dec 2019 21:43:36
So 6 games then?

16 Dec 2019 22:33:05
Yep, 6 games in which he won 3 headers. Real aerial threat is Haaland. 😂.