Manchester United Banter Archive December 05 2019

05 Dec 2019 23:29:54
Hey Ed001

Would be interested to hear what you think of the current crop of youngsters coming through at United and also England in general. Seems endless at the minute, got to be optimistic for England too

I for one a loving all these lads coming through especially those from harder backgrounds and setting such good examples eg Rashford.

{Ed001's Note - they are looking very good at the moment, the difficult part is keeping them on the right path once they break through. That is the bit that Rashford is particularly impressive on. If they follow his example, they won't go far wrong. It is good watching them getting chances. My worry is what happens if the club brings in some players, will they still get their chances?}

06 Dec 2019 05:49:14
The interesting point is that most of the young players are out performing the older ones.
McTominay for example is clearly ahead of Matic and Fred.

Dan James is the clear preference in RW over Mata or Lingard.
Tuanzabe over Rojo, Jones and Smalling.

Similarly Brandon Williams is ready to oust both Young and Luke Shaw for the LB spot.

However, some of the young players are not of the required quality if we want to compete at the top.
We need significant upgrade over Andreas and even Martial (who still just wanders off the ball)

Additionally, we need to increase the competion for places to keep everyone on their toes.

06 Dec 2019 11:50:12
Ed001, What do you make of the youngsters coming through at United atm? Particularly Williams, Laird, Garner, Levitt, Gomes, Chong and Greenwood. Which ones do you think will make it?

{Ed001's Note - I expect Williams to make it, because he is already better than the options and there are so many other spaces that need filling it enables the club to save money there.

I have not seen enough of Laird to really be sure on him. Liked what I did see, but I would want to see a bit more of him.

Garner has something for me. That little extra something that makes a player stand out as a talent. Whenever I see him I think he has everything needed to make it. The only worry for him is that the midfield is so weak United are likely to go and splash out for players who will block his route. If any of them can cope with that I would say he would. I see him as an international in the future with little doubt.

Levitt is like Laird, I haven't seen enough to be sure. Decent when I have but neither of them have that swagger and presence that Garner has that makes it easy to see the talent.

Gomes, Chong and Greenwood all look set to make it, but they are going to need to fill out a lot and grow into adults without losing their way. Out of them Chong I have fears for in that dept, he is very weak and the work on bulking up could well interfere with his development as a player. He desperately needs to pack on a bit of strength, but needs to be careful to do it right or it can mess with his balance, his touch and his control.

Greenwood is slightly ahead of the others for now, but that often means that he will end up behind, as those ahead at this age often fail to work as hard as those below them. The others have to catch up and that is why someone like Rashford has done so well, while the players who were ahead of him have faded away. That will take careful management of Greenwood to keep him focused on improving. He will need more first team football, and bad games, to remind him that he is not the finished product yet. It is the bad days which will focus him on getting better.}

06 Dec 2019 12:47:53
I get what you mean with regards to midfield signings blocking Garner and Levitt. But considering we haven't replaced Fellaini and Herrera and both Pogba and Matic want out I can't see us signing 4 players. I can see them bringing 2 in and using Garner and Levitt as a cash saving excuse which would for once be beneficial.

{Ed001's Note - I hope you are right Mort. They need to play. Sometimes you are better to leave gaps in the squad just to give hope.}

06 Dec 2019 13:44:28
Interesting Ed001, I think me and you have similar thoughts. My concern with laird isn't whether he will be good enough, he looks almost as good as Williams does in many games. I think the issue for him is we have AWB a 50m signing and only a 4 years older ahead of him and Dalot a 20m signing who is only 2 years older than him.
Unless Dalot's injuries continue I can't see him getting enough game time to make it at the club. If he can get some good loans and keep developing he stands a great chance of making somewhere else.

As for Garner and Levitt, I don't see two academy lads both getting the chances they need when they play in the same position. We will make midfield signings over the next couple of windows. Which means there probably won't be enough space for both to get the game time they need. Out of the two Garner does look a class above Levitt who I think will like Laird need to move away from the club to make it.

Chong and Gomes clearly have the talent, but there are questions over whether they have the temperament. Neither have really shown enough when given chances this season. Both look like they need a loan to play regularly at professional level. I think they stand a good chance of making it, but I'm not sure if that will be with us.

Greenwood looks a class above everyone else currently, and he has all through his youth career. He will need to be kept grounded if he is to reach his full potential.

What do you think of McTominay? He has surprised many with how he has developed in the last couple of years.

{Ed001's Note - I have said all along that I really like McTominay and think he was always better than he was given credit for. It is because most people only look at what he does on the ball, but he is one of those players who are particularly good because of what they do when they don't have it. Yes he is a good passer and has a cracking shot, he can drive forward with the ball too, but he doesn't offer the same obvious skills as some, nor the range of passing of others. What he does is put it all together well and uses what he has to great effect. You can also rely on him positionally and to offer an option when a player needs someone to pass to. He is going to be a mainstay of the midfield I believe.}

06 Dec 2019 14:53:09
Ed001, if we are able to (sadly I doubt we will) get Maddison and Sancho then in a few years time a midfield and forward line of Garner, McTominay, Maddison, Sancho, Greenwood and Rashford looks fantastic. Along with AWB, Tuanzebe and Williams in defence and Henderson in goal. It could be a top side made up almost entirely of British talent.

Most United fans are quite down about the club at the moment, and I can see why. But when you look at the talent we have coming through, and the fact that our current situation will likely create chances for those players that otherwise might not be there then it is also an exciting future we have with these lads.

{Ed001's Note - would you take Sancho? I am not sure I would want him. The talent is there but his attitude has been honking lately. Billy big time he is and he has not yet done enough to earn the right to think he is special.}

06 Dec 2019 16:29:11
He does need to sort his attitude out a little, but the talent he has it might be worth taking a risk on him.

Besides, I doubt we'll get Sancho, he won't leave Dortmund for any team unless they are in the UCL. We probably won't be next season. So he'll probably end up at Liverpool as Salah's replacement I would guess. Which might be best for him as he wouldn't be expected to be the difference maker every week and Klopp would sort his attitude out.

Maddison is the one I really want though. I think he would make a bigger impact on out squad than Sancho would.

{Ed001's Note - you might be surprised about him leaving, as Dortmund are wanting rid.}

06 Dec 2019 17:39:29
Thanks Ed for the reply and all the others in the thread. Nice to be optimistic for a change.

I hear amazing things about Laird and his attitude, he is apparently the reason Williams is a Lb.

Williams I love already, top attitude that has drifted out of the game. Proper throwback and love a right footed Left Back.

Tuanzabe looks set to be either a first choice or mainstay back up.

Levitt for me is quality, compared to Modric in style. I think a loan to someone like Bournemouth or Sheffield Utd or even Germany would be good for him. It would also allow the club to ‘churn’ some players out and while letting him play for the next 18 months.

Garner is class, all action, leader and I’m sure could make it without a loan. I think the right Pogba replacement wouldn’t happen his development.

Gomes I really enjoy watching, something of an Ineista/ Ronaldiniho hybrid. I think he’s pushing for first team guarantees before signing up and would be better going out on loan and signing a big deal with us but out of the way making a name for himself for 18 months. Similar to Welbeck but a better loan than Sunderland and for 18 months.

McTominay is fantastic- reminds me of Rio’s description of Carrick “he puts out fires before you even see them” or word to that affect which I think is down to movement and positioning.

Rashford has levelled up big time, really similar progression stats as Ronaldo and Messi. no pressure.

Greenwood looks ready for greatness just needs to work. I’m sure he’ll be steered right.

James looks a revelation and an actual decent player not just a pace merchant.

AWB looking like a gear signing. Will be a good choice of defensive or attacking with Laird and Dalot in the wings.

Andreas in my opinion is a fine 4th choice but nothing more, if he wants more he should be moved on.

Some others i like and see intelligence in are: D’Mani Mellor - great feet and hold up play, Galbraith - a bit like fletcher, Mengi - could be special. Plus goalkeepers Henderson, who I’d like to see fight it out with de Gea next season and Kovar we seem to be getting it right somewhere.

Largie Ramonzanie - is looking good too.

As for signings
I’d like see a Cavani, Erikson, Bale.

05 Dec 2019 14:34:16
Its clear that ole has stil got the support of the hierarchy and to a very large extent the players.
Given that jan is not a great time to buy players what do people think ole needs to improve the squad immediately and for the longer term.
A couple of shrewd loan deals for a couple of experienced forwards would be great.
Cavani mandzucic bale spring to mind.
If pogba and matic were to leave we would need a couple of midfielders too i can see matic leaving but maybe players in part exchange for any pogba deal in jan.

05 Dec 2019 14:53:27
Give the captaincy to Mctominy now, but like Henderson for Liverpool not necessarily the best but makes everyone else better.
If either hope Pogba can get his head straight for the rest of the season to play the am/ 10 role or bring someone In.
RM but think this will have to wait for the summer to get who we want.
Torn between an aging striker loan or cheap or hope that Martial/ Greenwood can manage but that may be too much.

05 Dec 2019 14:55:54
If isco and kroos are ready to come here a swap for pogba would be great, solves our midfield and no 10 problem.

Definitely need a striker, cavani would be a good short term signing, timo Werner would be a good young choice if he can be convinced. I hope we go nowhere near the golfer loan or not and mandzukic I don't think is that much of goal scorer these days.

Midfield and strikers have to be signed if we want to have any hope of playing in CL next season.

05 Dec 2019 15:14:38
Sounds sensible ken. even without considering matic our mid field is so week. when we played with Andreas and Fred we were outrun in the midfield. mctominay and Fred seem to come good in some matches but we rely too much on them. same as when martial/ rash gets injured we rely too much on the kid Greenwood it's important to address both these area. but the most important thing is to move Pogba asap. we really don't want to drag till next summer end and be a major problem incoming transfer plans.

05 Dec 2019 15:56:56
First of big shout out to you Ken for predicting last night's win.
What you said makes sense, if only it is possible. I also agree with Rivian, Pogba should be allowed to move on and reinvest his fee. Matic also seems to be on the verge of leaving so those two MUST be replaced, esp considering we have almost done without them this season.
We already have quite a young team, an experienced player on a one year contract of sorts will not be a bad idea.

05 Dec 2019 16:51:20
Midfield is the obvious area we need strengthening, as well as another centre forward as Martial is injury prone and Greenwood probably isn't ready to carry the burden every week.

However, I don't think we should sign players in January unless they are part of our long term vision. Quick fixes rarely work and we shouldn't sign players for the sake of it.

In midfield it might be difficult to get our long term targets in January and we might have to make do until the summer. Hopefully, TFM could come back and make an impact as a CDM, or one of Levitt or Garner could play a few more minutes in the second half of the season.

Up front though I think potentially a first choice target may be available in Moussa Dembele from Lyon. His off the ball movement, ability to link up play, and his clinical finishing means he would be an upgrade on what we have and would hopefully make us more potent in the final third.

We might be able to bring in a RW in the form of Steven Bergwijn or David Neres from the Netherlands in January. They would be good options for the RW as Sancho doesn't look likely unless we get UCL qualification.

{Ed002's Note - There are no plans to make Moussa Dembele available in January but they are trying to bring another striker in - which means at the right (very high) price something could be done.}

05 Dec 2019 16:54:45
For me the issue is midfield but I’m going to disagree with most of the posts. We actually need players like James Milner (as an example) . Solid experienced professionals that will bring experience to a very young dressing room without necessarily upsetting the current vibe. I remember when Sanchez arrived and it seemed to set back Martial and Rashford so I’m not sure I want to see particularly big names arriving. We need depth and experience, not just stellar names unless they are happy being part of a squad and not a guaranteed starter.

05 Dec 2019 16:55:08
matic can sign a pre contract with someone in jan, we should just let him go for free in jan.

sell pogba in jan


buy 1 or 2 centre mids and a striker


but only if they are the first choice players, would rather buy no one than go for 3 and 4th choices.

05 Dec 2019 16:57:54
Haaland- Striker,
Bruno Fernandes- No 10
Rakitic- Central Midfield

If an offer comes in for Pogba, then swap him for Isco, Bale and Kroos.
RW, no 10 and midfield will be sorted instantly.

05 Dec 2019 17:09:34
Apart from none of bale, isco ir kroos want to cone here its perfect.

05 Dec 2019 17:23:00
Ed002, that's the issue though. Hardly anyone will actively look to sell a player in January who is probably worth buying. Mostly the players available are either ones who aren't in a managers plans, or ones who could be labelled as "problem" players.

The only way to bring in top quality players in January is to pay through the nose for them. That said, if a top player who is a long term target can be bought, even at an inflated price then maybe the club should look to do something.

What is important though is to not sign players for the sake of it, or because they suddenly become available and aren't part of future plans of the club.

Personally, I think the January window should only be a loan window.

I know its a very subjective question, but do you see United being able to bring in a player or two in January?

{Ed002's Note - This is the big decision Manchester United have to make - keep throwing money in support of the second rate coach to address the issues he has with CM, DM, CM/AM, W/F needed plus possibly a S - or take a more measured approach and look to working on summer replacements. If the deired players are available then that is a different matter. Pogba wants out - see what is on offer from the suitors - although as I have explained they already know.}

05 Dec 2019 18:00:31
I agree with most above. Midfield is obviously am issue and the pogba and matic situation leaves us in a dilemma unless its sorted quickly.
Id love to see someone like cavani come in. He is an inspirational sort of character i think the fans would take to and he scores goals and works the line really well. He is 31 and has a good 2 sessions in him. We really only have 3 snr front players so there is plenty of football for 4 given their flexibility.
In midfield we need a player to play along side mctom and a no10 to compete with jessie.
Lots of possibilities taking into account what players may become available as part of any deal for PP.

05 Dec 2019 19:31:52
Hi Ed

Agree the decision on the coach is huge but if the organisation above the Coach was aligned as per Chelsea surely the transfer strategy should be lead from there?

Are they planning to offer for Haaland btw?

Thanks for you me insights.

{Ed002's Note - There are numerous sides following the kid but there is no point in him moving somewhere for significant money to end up on the bench.

The structure at Chelsea is clear and simple, although they are still trying to add a DoF - but the desired cbhoice doesn't want to commit. Manchester United have a very different structure.}

05 Dec 2019 21:01:49
Thanks Ed

Would it be fair to the structure in place is somewhat limiting for forward planning and transfer strategy?

Appreciate I’m stating what could be obvious but I don’t see how the club get out of this spiral without change up stairs.

If not Haaland would it be possible to get a list of targets when your time permits.

{Ed002's Note - They will continue as they are. The decision will be whether to continue with this coach beyond the summer with this coach or not.}

05 Dec 2019 07:55:25
IMO last nights game is just further proof that Ole is not the right man for the job. Why you ask?

It seems to me that the players play when they want to or need to prove a point. i. e. 1st 10 games after jose (just a fu jose)

Chelsea x 2, Liverpool (to an extent) and last night (again fu jose) .

We need a manager that can inspire the players to play with that effort every week and not just the games they choose to.

{Ed047's Note - 1st post Fabs or have you been on before?

05 Dec 2019 09:22:51
Fabs on the other hand I can argue that since he has done well against the top teams, he is the right man for the job. The point is the team has been under performing for a long time, not just under Ole.

Is Ole the right man for the job? I don't think anyone would say "Yes", because of his lack of experience at the top level. However, even with experienced managers nothing significant was achieved with some bad recruitment and thinking along the lines of short term success.

It is already a debate whether the players are to blame or the manager but, when there is a pattern of players under-performing under different managers it does say something about the squad. We still need to clear out some unwanted or not so good players and bring in quality to complement the squad. Any new manager coming in would have the same issues until the squad gets more quality additions.

I however do agree that the team can do a lot better week in and out and Ole needs to take the blame for not motivating the players enough to perform consistently.

05 Dec 2019 09:24:30
😂😂😂😂 this is hilarious is someone 🐠🐠.

05 Dec 2019 09:09:44
Ed047 where is the diagree button :)

{Ed047's Note - you mean you don’t agree with the OP? Why ever not 😉😂

05 Dec 2019 09:57:33
Wait, beating the good teams means he isn't the right man for the job? Interesting.

05 Dec 2019 10:21:06
Or alternatively we have a side that plays best when given the space to counter attack, something we get much more of against the top sides. As for the first 10 games under Ole, we were in terrible form before that and due to the previous manager parking the bus against sides that were recently promoted, ALL sides felt they could attack us and get at us. Then we went on a run of form, hitting teams on the counter and then the "smaller" sides reverted to playing in a low block and our best attacking players are denied the space they need to play at their best.

Without a clever No.10, or deep forward who can unlock deep defences we have struggled.

05 Dec 2019 14:13:36
Anyone spot which of the regular posters fab is .

05 Dec 2019 17:52:00
No jred i can't think who it might be?
Give us a clue to your suspicion. I've read it a few times but nothing obvious to pint to anyone in particular. Its annoying me now🤯.

05 Dec 2019 07:10:46
Been a unpredictable season for us so far, not a surprise however with the lack of quality and depth in the squad.

5 Wins, 6 Draws and 4 losses and we are in 6th at the moment and could end up in 7th/ 8th with both Arsenal/ Sheff Utd having a game in hand. If only we could have converted some of those draws into wins, we would had been in a much better position.

In January, we should dip in the transfer market and get a goal poacher. Our current pair of Rashford/ Martial are not alive in the box and don't make the proper runs to really put the opposition defense under pressure. There were times this season when James put in some dangerous crosses and required someone to just anticipate, make a run and tap it into the net. Unfortunately our forward players are lacking in that regard and the lack of quality in midfield is also not helping.

If we could possibly get a quality CM in addition to that, it would be a bonus. However the Jan transfer market is difficult and I hope Mr. Woodward doesn't make any hasty decisions to bring in average players on huge wages to compliment the squad.

{Ed047's Note - every single club can say if only LPU so it’s not a great argument.

05 Dec 2019 07:43:46
Agree Ed047 and it's a good thing for us that other clubs are not getting the results as well and we are lucky to be in the position that we are in the table at the moment.

{Ed047's Note - I wouldn’t say it was luck LPU as the table doesn’t generally lie but like us you’re in a bit of a mess and results will be up and down.

I said yesterday you’ve generally showed up against the bigger teams and you did again last night.

It’s avoiding the lapses back to the type of play you don’t want that’s crucial but under the current situation probably won’t be happen.

I think you, like us, go into games having no idea what the result is likely to be.

05 Dec 2019 08:20:15
Couldn't agree more Ed047. Right now it's more of hope that we do well and get a result rather than confidence going in to games, for the fans especially.

{Ed047's Note - it’s not great LPU but where we’re at right now. The only way as they say, is up. 🤞

05 Dec 2019 09:29:57
Hopefully Ed047 and can't wait for both these fantastic clubs to once again be fighting for top honors in the near future.

Thanks for your inputs Ed.

{Ed047's Note - welcome mate and me too!

05 Dec 2019 09:12:50
LPU.
We have seen several times James putting in crosses only to see nobody attacking it.
Martial doesn't smell goals. That's a reason we badly need a striker with natural instinct for goals.

Ed047, we could do with Auba or Lacazette :)

{Ed047's Note - stop right there TRD, what would we do without them 😱😂

05 Dec 2019 10:27:30
The table doesn't lie, we are where we are because as a squad we aren't good enough to be higher in the table. Injuries happen, we have been slightly unfortunate in that we have suffered injuries in our weakest area of the pitch. But then that is why you have a squad.

Stick three world class midfielders in our team and we would be top three right now given how the season has played out.

McTominay has been a revelation this season, yet he should still have at least one top quality player to fight it out for a starting spot.

We had Scholes and Keane as first choice, yet they had Butt and Veron nipping at their heels. The fact we signed the best midfielder in Serie A, while having Scholes and Keane as first choice shows the ambition we once had.