Manchester United Discussion

08 May 2024 10:50:28
Question @ wazza.
Do you think all the eth out folk should boycott their support until he has left like you did with Jose?
You critique people for wanting eth out but when you want a manager out you decide to boycott.
Do you think there is consistency in your viewpoint? Or is it a case of when you think you are right everyone should agree.
Why do you think you should boycott attending games until a manager is fired but I'd someone else wants a manger fired you think you have a right to tell them they are wrong? They hypocrisy is deadly
@ Jimbob does this make wazza a plastic fan? Is this another national disgrace?
Hilarious really 🤣.

08 May 2024 13:38:56
It's like a form of Tourettes.

08 May 2024 18:26:37
Lol Tony. I think Ken's lost it. Every bloody post these days 😂😂

This site would be nothing without you Mr. Tumble.

08 May 2024 18:36:46
angel he might have onset dementia and forgets he’s said the same thing many times a day day in day out.

08 May 2024 21:38:21
Thanks for the mention Ken.

I decided under Jose that I was no longer going to make the 2.5 hour round trip to watch some of the worse football I’ve seen anywhere, getting home at 1am with work the next day, and spending a fortune for the pleasure. I hope that’s ok with you.

If somebody else doesn’t want to go to games right now, that’s up to them.

Ken you are nothing more than a keyboard warrior with a bus pass. Give it a rest, and get a hobby.

08 May 2024 21:45:33
Thanks angel ajh and fizz try not to belittle people suffering from those issues it says a lot more about you than me.

08 May 2024 07:06:32
As it seeminly comes to the end of Ten Hags time with us, I will look fondly back on those early days when we all said its nice to have a proper football manager, someone who knows the game, can install discipline and set out proper tactics. How ironic that it ends like this, with a display reminiscent of the 4-1 loss to Watford.

At least when the next manager comes in, they can enjoy one decent year from the players before it all starts to fall apart, or will SJR finally be able go break this cycle we have been in for the last 12 years, who knows.

08 May 2024 07:16:52
Grim, the next manager and group of players we sign will be “exactly what we need”, until they are not.

08 May 2024 07:56:50
Precisely Wazza! Exactly what we need, until the toxic plastics jump out of their prams and start waving their toys about.

08 May 2024 08:15:16
They absolutely need to make sure they give whoever comes in a good template to work to. If they feel they have that and want to give ETH a fair crack of the whip, assuming they feel he has not yet been given that, then we must ALL accept the decision and have faith in the process.

Far beyond my footballing level to make that call.

08 May 2024 08:45:23
Are we seriously suggesting again the players have downed tools? Because that’s not what I see.

I see severe tactical issues from a manager refusing to adapt.

08 May 2024 08:54:02
Not sure I agree Caolan. Palace away was an even newer low point. Every player looked like they’d given up.

08 May 2024 09:49:05
They look on the floor Eric. I think they are deflated and have no energy for what's asked of them at this point, rather than downing tools. I think with the tactics, they are playing against themselves in a way.

08 May 2024 12:07:37
I still saw players running and trying.

Tactically this whole set up is ludicrous. Every stat indicates how absurd it is. Yet to some people that can’t be criticised. Nothing was different when he had a fully fit team either. Remember wolves, spurs at the beginning of the season.

It’s not good enough.

07 May 2024 11:58:22
Did a little research today as I can't understand some people's view on eth.
@ kurtis and ports.
Eth average tenure for a managers position is 2.3 years.
He has spent 645 m in his career on players.
Only 4 of these 105 players have a positive value increase post His signing. Martinez and Anthony being 2 of them.
How this guy got the job at united is beyond me. The more you look at the detail behind his good team at ajax the more it becomes clear that he has little foresight as a manager.
He is not build for longevity which is not necessarily a bad thing but we need to understand his average tenure is shorter than the likes if tuchel or Jose.

07 May 2024 13:44:35
He’s tactically naive and simplistic Ken, using injuries as an excuse is just lazy. Injuries or not we could be setup better. Seems like he’s persisting with the same tactics rather than adjusting to what he has available, and as for his signings…. most of them have been poor so why would ineos trust him with more funds.

07 May 2024 14:01:13
Ken, I don't think his average tenure is something you can judge him against. Each time he has left he has gone to, dare I say a bigger prospect. Who knows how long he'd have stayed at Ajax for if we hadn't approached him?

I can't get on board with the money spent argument either, you can absolutely look at the recruitment but laying the fees at the managers feet I don't think is right. We are renowned for being poor in the transfer market. Mourinho spent 100M Euros on Pogba, 85M Euros on Lukaku, how did they work out? 55M Euros on Fred who fans hammered for the majority of his time at United.

My view is this, no manager has made it work at United since SAF. Mourinho has said the best achievement he ever done was finish 2nd with this group of players. Van Gaal said we are a commercial club and ETH should go to a Football Club. Ragnick said the club needs open heart surgery. So we are judging a manager who is working in these conditions, how can you make a fair analysis off of that?

You constantly refer to leaving it to the experts, Barcelona wanted ETH, Ed has said there are 3 I believe, clubs who would take him should he be available. He clearly has admirers within the coaching world but I don't believe we have seen the best of him because of the lack of structure and off-field chaos at the club.

You said yourself that he can go elsewhere and be a success like some players have done. Question to you is why can't he do that at United?

07 May 2024 14:56:41
Ports.
That is not what ed002 said at all.
Barcelona made no offer to eth what are you talking about.
Of course he can go elsewhere and do well.
He is not a Manchester United coach or an epl coach. He will be leaving in the summer and he knows that.
He lacks charisma and he does not understand the epl his tactics are awful.
His eye for a player is awful.
Look through his whole career and all his signings.
He had a little success at ajax with a team and players he inherited.
No due dillehence or not enough was done in him and as we know it was done by incompetent people anyhow.
There is no compelling argument to keep him.
He has no pedigree at this level.
You have no faith inv the players Woodward and team selected for over 10 years. No faith in any of their previous managers.
Why to you have faith in this Woodward selection?
He is going he knows it.

07 May 2024 15:54:59
Catalunya Radio reported at the time Laporta wanted Ten Hag to replace Koeman. Now for whatever reason it didn't progress or it's just a rumour but that's all you can go on, I never said they made an offer? Where did I say that? I thought it was one of the Ed's who said there were clubs interested in him should he leave but I must have read it elsewhere.

I had faith in the managers previously bar Moyes. I had no faith in Woodward and their ability to successfully work within the transfer world of football and believe a lot of first and second choice players were missed out on and managers have, in general had to settle for 3rd and 4th choices whilst the club over payed for them also.

So I don't see an issue with him working under a better structure. He is absolutely in the last saloon and maybe at Christmas should be reviewed. He got his tactics ok last season in his first season in English Football. For every Antony there's a Martinez, he saw that Garnacho and Mainoo were ready for 1st Team football.

I guess essentially Ken, why are you worried, you keep saying he's going and he knows it so why are you continuing to harp on about him and worried what others think? I'll back the next manager as well if and when they come in and give him time to succeed rather than jump on him when things go bad which they will at some point. How long will you give the new manager you know is coming in? How long until you blame Solskjaer's coaching and Ten Hags coaching for the issues?

07 May 2024 17:47:43
Ports

We have to look at the damage ETH could do if here until Christmas. The club is on its knees, a laughing stock, because ETH has made mistake after mistake.

Why would we buy Onana and Antony unless ETH insisted? Or Amarabat on loan unless ETH insisted.
ETH keeps blaming injuries, many of which happened in training after he moaned at tough games.

You mentioned Mourinho, did he ask for Fred, like ETH clearly asked for Antony?

We are judging ETH work in coaching the team, his organisation or lack of it, how players he clearly insisted on are being fitted in. That first goal last night like many others was down to a lack of organisation or coaching, was it 50 mins before we had a shot? Then he singles out five players, two are Mainoo and Garnacho over the first goal. Putting Eriksen in the middle like that is not naive it was incompetence.

It is an utter shambles, you can’t say we didn’t buy what he wanted because who else would have gone for Onana, Antony and Amarabat.

I have absolutely no confidence in ETH and doubt very many would find any if he stays.

07 May 2024 18:04:20
Ports I will be behind any manager that has players improving and the team improving.
Technically we are miles behind, that's coaching. Team shape and discipline we are miles behind. that's coaching. Fitness we are miles behind that's coaching. Conditioning we are miles behind that's coaching.
Injuries to players does not mean the ones that are playing can't pass the ball 10 yards, cannot control a ball, cannot make runs off the ball can't retain a decent shape, that's coaching.
Building a team and style that the fans can identify with. A team the fans can be proud of win or lose. A manager that can pull the team the fans and the players together. A manager that earns and commands respect from all parties.
A leader who leads and one that has great emotional intelligence, compassion and understanding.
I support a manager who understands the power of silence a trait all the best leaders throughout history have, knowing when to speak and which battles to fight.
I will support a manager who everybody wants to follow because they trust and believe in him.
Creating that culture can be done its not rocket science and has been done all over the world its not difficult with the right leadership and its even easier when the company has a traditionand history of it.
You need the right players too of course. But even the right players under the wrong leadership have no chance.
In many cases we have the wrong players under the wrong leadership and that's when you see the carnage we are witnessing.
It starts at the top. Eth does not have the leadership skills etc in anything that I've witnessed for the job that needs doing here.
The only caveat to that is that I don't see what's going on behind the scenes. If wilcox and ashworth see something I don't then I would trust their judgement but I think it highly unlikely.
Continuous improvement on the pitch ports is what I'll support.
That does not necessarily mean better results immediately for a season or 2 as there will be a high turnover over the next 3 windows so it will take time but if there is a sense of improvement right across the board and a sense that all players fans coaches and owners are pulling in the right and same direction then that's when you know you have the right man. Eth will never achieve that at united in my opinion. Particularly as he only has 4 games to do it🤣.

07 May 2024 18:04:35
Ken, you're like a dog with a bone. In the words of Elsa, let it go, let it go, can't hold it back any more. Your passion is awesome but I think we all know how you feel.

07 May 2024 18:24:51
It’s not a passion AJH. It’s an obsession which is far from awesome.

07 May 2024 18:31:41
So where did it all go wrong for Ten Hag. Last season we were flying, we all thought that finally we were moving forward, then like a one hit wonder the dreaded second album came out and it flopped. Now the manager is fighting for his future, and the team play like strangers.

07 May 2024 21:26:21
Where did it go wrong Grim? Started with the FA Cup final where we stood off them too much, got the impression ETH set up and tried not to lose the final. I don’t have evidence but I suspect the players were a bit downhearted about his leadership on that. Then ETH did not inspire anyone with the summer transfer window.

08 May 2024 05:52:41
redman

You really have your own versions of everything. I was at that final. The entire industry including some of you here and pundits had us getting smashed 5 or 6 something playing a city team that was putting teams to the sword. There was not a fan on the train or in the stadium that thought we played not to lose and even though disappointing we gave them a game and almost took it into extra time hitting the post late on. My only memory from that game is there is no player like rodri in this league. A freak of a player imo and the difference maker and missing Martinez showed.

Guys like you and ken just make bs up as you go because you hate this manager and make it sound like you speak for the fanbase. you are a minority in reality given your extreme views on most things.

08 May 2024 06:19:23
Last season we dropped completely off the pace after beating Newcastle for the cup.
It's been a downward spiral since then.

{Ed025's Note - i would say more...falling off a cliff Tom..

08 May 2024 06:45:04
Maybe it's age, or maybe it's selective memory but some posters love to change history to suit their narrative.

Last season we did very well under EtH, yet the one complaint was that we didn't have a clear style of play due to the manager constantly making tactical changes to the team to try and suit the players he had and counter the oppositions strengths/ weaknesses.

He adjusted his tactics very well as we finished 3rd and made two cup finals, while a little unlucky not to make a third. Clearly a guy who understands tactics and can make those adjustments to get the best out of what he has.

This season it's different, the manager himself has said part of his remit from the club is to build towards a specific style, and he seems to be pushing that this season. Unfortunately when you play a specific style it will suit some players and it will not suit others.

There is no such thing as coaching a player to be able to play in a way that does not suit their skill set and ability at an elite level.

I'm sure Maguire could be coached to look like prime Beckenbauer in Sunday league football, but there is no chance any manager could coach him to look like that in the EPL or UCL.

If people want to see a definitive style of play, played consistently and to a high level then we will need to build a 25 man squad that is capable of that. That probably means replacing 18-20 of the current squad.

People talk about team shape and discipline, but those are the responsibility of the players on the pitch. You're told a shape to play in, how to change shape during different states of play. It's down to the players to have the intelligence and discipline to follow those instructions.

The manager is just a voice on the sidelines, he is not a 16 year old with a X-Box controller playing FIFA. The players have their own autonomy and have to take responsibility for their own actions.

It's not the managers fault when Maguire wanders out of position because he's ball watching and is then unable to get back to where he should be. Or when a player puts in a weak challenge, doesn't track back, loses a header or gives the ball away.

Looking at the fitness and conditioning, unless you're using illegal means you cannot quickly or instantly improve a squads fitness and conditioning. It takes time, it takes work and it is a hard road.

I've said previously that it is something that appears to be happening currently, and that it might even be the reasoning behind the injuries.

We have dedicated fitness coaches, we have a dedicated medical team. The planning and actions being taken are being made with the input and guidance of experts.

Just because we aren't privy to their plans it doesn't mean what they are doing is wrong.

I believe one poster said that it's best to leave decisions up to the subject matter experts, and to not be judge, jury and executioner on matters that we ourselves are not subject matter experts on.

But then I suppose that quote from the Dark Knight might carry some weight. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to become the villain.

08 May 2024 11:07:33
Nonsense shappy you can make huge moves quickly on fitness and conditioning.
Tell me where your came up with the theory it takes a long long time?
What is your area of expertise on this to come out with that nonsense.

08 May 2024 11:10:41
people losing the plot on here haha 😄 and none of us know F all.

08 May 2024 11:12:18
but shappy, 3rd, 3 Cup finals, the man hasn't a clue, he isn't even and EPL coach.

I have never read such crap on here Ken, you do crack me up pal, keep it up 😄.

08 May 2024 18:47:14
No ken you're right, most people could build up the fitness to run a marathon in a couple of weeks.

Improving a persons stamina cannot be done with a few simple exercises for a couple weeks and Bob's your uncle Fanny's your aunt.

You need to push yourself over a longer period of time to build up that resilience to the fatigue, to push those boundaries, to be able to run for longer, harder and recover quicker.

I've had conversations with personal trainers and with experts who work in the world of personal fitness, so I am merely repeating the words of those subject matter experts.

Maybe they are wrong, maybe from your position as one of the top physical conditioning coaches in the world you can explain to them how they are wrong with your extensive knowledge and experience.

Or maybe you're the one talking nonsense.

we have also seen this happen before at other clubs. Managers have come in, introduced a more physically demanding style of play and have had to increase the intensity of the training to condition the players to be able to play that style. This has more often than not resulted in a season or so of the squad suffering increased injuries due to that training. However, once they get through that they are capable of playing that more physically demanding style.

Another common symptom from that increase in the intensity of training besides an increase in injuries tends to be a drop off in performance later on in games due to the players tiring. With the physical fatigue also causing players to make more mistakes due to feeling tired.

Liverpool during Klopp's first and second season suffered with injuries, with them typically suffering more injuries than most other sides during those two seasons. Another common trait during that time was them conceding late goals to drop points.

Now looking at United we are hearing about an increase in intensity in training, with the players being given greater demands. The manager has said he wants us to be the best transitioning side in the world, that is a more physically demanding style of play. We are suffering more injuries than usual, and finally we are seeing our player fade later in games and are often dropping points in the final 20 minutes of games.

Now I'm no saying he outcomes will be the same, but it certainly looks like the methods and the aim is similar.

An increase in training intensity with the aim of conditioning and ultimately supporting the players in being able to play a more physically demanding style of play. Yet in the short to medium term we see an increase in injuries and fatigue, while the players do the work required to build up that stamina and increase base fitness levels.

It's just a case of seeing what is right in front of us. Or of course you could close your eyes, bury your head in the sand and scream "bla bla bla" because the evidence before you doesn't suit your narrative.

Personally when I see something happening that I'm unsure or lacking in detailed knowledge of, then I go and try and educate myself. Speak to, or read information from subject matter experts, I try to gather information to help inform my opinions as best as I can.

I try to not make an uninformed opinion, then try and shut anyone down who doesn't agree with my opinion by stating they aren't subject matter experts (something about throwing stones and glasshouses is playing in my head for some reason) .

But that's me.

07 May 2024 11:04:05
When was the last time united finished a league season with negative goal difference?

07 May 2024 11:28:18
89? SACK SAF? Something like that.

07 May 2024 10:59:31
Let's lighten things up a bit.
Quiz time.
Only 1 club has conceded 4 goals away from home more times than Manchester United over past 2 seasons
Who is it?

07 May 2024 14:16:16
Lol. What a question to lighten the mood Ken 😂😂😂.