Manchester United Banter Archive September 26 2018

 

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26 Sep 2018 23:14:16
We have two world class players and people on here want to sell one of them. Even when he’s been arguably our best player all season. Just insane.

Believable3 Unbelievable15

27 Sep 2018 02:11:52
Who is been our best player this season? To me it has been Shaw and close second De Gea. Pogba is a mercenary, he doesn't put in the effort. I still don't understand what people see in this clown. World cup winner? Remember Kleberson? Lol i just wished Keane would still be playing, i'm pretty sure he would have kicked and slapped some of these clowns. He would probably be in prison playing with this lot. Get rid of Pogba and Mourinho. Alexis as well. Get Howe or any other young, hungry manager. Stop with this "has been" appointments. We need a driving force in the middle and at least one speedy winger who can beat a man and can cross the ball and you'll see the difference.

Agree6 Disagree1

27 Sep 2018 04:15:04
When the best player in your team can't be bothered to run "just over there" for fear of tripping over his sulking bottom lip he sets the tone for the rest of the team.

Everyone should play to their maximum. If PP wants to stroll around and play as badly as everyone else because he finds everything so easy then drop him down to play for reserves.

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27 Sep 2018 07:39:39
When a player thinks he is world class but has not demonstrated it in 2 years after becoming the club record signing
I don't know what game you have watched this season where Pogba has been arguably our best player as Remanutd says above I agree it's prob been Shaw/ De Gea.
Can anyone name me 5 games where Pogba has truly been world class for United. I'm talking Keane/ Viera/ Modric/ Kante/ Scholes etc, I honestly can't. He's had a couple of good games where he looks like he potentially could be but none stand out, especially none of the big games.
And for the guy to be sat in the stand in a white tracksuit while his squad members around him who are also not in the match day squad are in their United tracksuit, this to me shoes he has no respect for the club, don't forget this guy has been captain numerous times this season, what sort of an example does this egotistical manchild set to Shaw and Pereirra beside him never mind even younger members of the club.

Get him out!

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27 Sep 2018 07:52:50
Rosspique, he has in every game he didn't play for united.

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27 Sep 2018 08:55:49
Everyone saying Pogba has been world class away from united, really? How many watched serie a week in and out, easy to look at someone’s best bits on highlights, for France Pogba has 1 good half and is raved about, Pogba in both of those teams is surrounded by better players than him, it’s false to say he’s done it bar at United, truth is he just isn’t that good.

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27 Sep 2018 13:36:33
Fred and Herrera would be my starting centre mid paring along with perreria.

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27 Sep 2018 19:45:30
I don't want to sell Smalling and Jones😆😆.

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26 Sep 2018 22:27:05
A few people still believe there is no breakdown and the Pogba and Mourinho stuff is the media twisting things. Surely.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

26 Sep 2018 22:44:52
Great article by Jamie Carragher on Pogba and Mourinho, regardless of who the manager is, we won’t see a different Pogba.

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27 Sep 2018 07:21:37
Of course he would say that but rubbish his pants if they could get him to play for Liverpool.

You guys have wool over your eyes. Funny enough Carragher has been slated for talking horserubbish but because it falls within the narrative you all want, it's all gospel now.

LOL.

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27 Sep 2018 07:41:42
Yaz are you one of pogbas cousins or something bro?

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27 Sep 2018 09:21:56
Yaz, he’s had two years to show his worth, we know he wants out, and if he was at liverpool he’d be a liability with there style of play. All i’m saying is read the piece and it makes sense, there’s no biase in it from carragher, he’s allowed an opinion that isn’t all Liverpool.

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26 Sep 2018 22:09:06
Much has been said about our club, manager and some players so I won't repeat that. I wanted to focus more on a couple of other players who have been complete waste and a couple who can make us better. Not that Mourinho will read this and apply in the next match but just how I would use or drop players.

Lingard - He's not up-to United's standard. Belongs to a mid table team at the most. He has zero creativity, he cannot finish and can't control the ball. His best asset is that he runs a lot and comes back all the way to defence during build up to pass the ball sideways and back. He normally has 1 decent game in 10 and still manages to be on the team sheet somehow. I've played during my college days and I wasn't any good but I can do whatever Lingard does, except for the crazy handshakes. He may have worked on some slick celebrations too but he isn't getting the chance to shown those off.

Young - Yes he marked Salah in 1 match last season but he's not a full back or even a winger now. I can't recall the number of times he tried to put a through ball for Lukaku from the left side of the pitch. Even usain bolt won't be able to reach his through balls let alone Lukaku. He doesn't want to get forward and tries to be Paul scholes with his passes. He does everything a full back should not. The best moment from his career in the last few years that I can recall is the bird poo incident. There was no support for Martial during attacks from Young and though Martial played well he ended up being blocked plenty of times with his passes as he had very limited options.

Bailey - Here is the thing, he is not suited to the kind of defence that just sits back and invites pressure whole match. He is a very good defender but gets carried away and goes out of position while trying to put pressure on the opposite player. He would be more suited in a defence that wants to get the ball back quickly. He can also be used as a defensive mid ( somewhat like casemiro ) . I know casemiro is much better but Bailey can do that job. He is great with the ball at his feet and can keep the ball moving with his short passes.

Dalot - We need someone on the right flank to let him show his true potential. Last game with Mata on the right he crossed the halfway line very few times. And can't recall if he crossed more than twice. Once his cross found Mata in the box who wasn't able to control it and second time Fellaini scored. Right now I can't think of anyone in the team who can play on the right side. I honestly expected Sanchez to play there when he signed but that was just wishful thinking.

Andreas Pereira - He is one player I want to see more of. He's not a bloody defensive mid but he still played there to get some gametime. Last I recall he came on against wolves at the end and was so dynamic though it was for a very short time. He has such a great ball control and eye for a pass. And he can put in a much better ball in from set pieces than any other player in our team. I would play him on the right to replace Lingard. He can't be much worse and we never know he might just make that position his own. Another option is to play him in a three man midfield but as a creative midfielder. He will make us better if he's allowed to play a more creative role.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

27 Sep 2018 07:50:18
Sailor good call for Andreas to be played on the right, mmm might be worth a try as you are totally right there is no one at the club who can play that roll at the min.
He certainly has more pace than Mata and more guile than Lingard.

Lingard is what he is, a grafter and a good squad option with 20 mins to go but a consistent starter he is not.
Young should only be played in the lesser competitions, I would play Darmian ahead of him as a 2nd choice to luke as at least he is defensively sound and gets a hard time from our support but is a decent player.

Bailly I just do not know anymore, a serious case of 2nd season syndrome that's carried onto his third. Think if we had gotten Alderwerield he could have pushed on. Needs someone to learn from and that someone is not Chris Smalling.

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26 Sep 2018 21:33:02
Whatever happens with Mourinho, I am firmly of the belief that Pogba does not deserve to wear the shirt and should be sold.
I also would not be against the idea of him never playing for us again. I absolutely hate everything about him.

Believable10 Unbelievable4

26 Sep 2018 21:54:17
Rosspique I'm a 100 percent with you on this one he's only interested in himself and his brand he isn't even a gamechanger the sooner we get rid of the him and mourinho the better sick of the 2 of them their dragging our great club through the gutter.

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26 Sep 2018 22:14:47
I think you may want to think that one through a bit lads, it's not a PC game, do you want sides like Barcelona deciding to make a bid and calculating you'll never pick him again and he's on massive wages, do you want peanuts for him to prove an expensive point or tell Barcelona or whoever what a fabulous important player he is to you then let them make an offer.

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26 Sep 2018 22:27:23
Slate151 the money side doesn't bother me its not my money if they can get rid asap ill be happy.

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26 Sep 2018 22:43:10
As a fan that's fine Scott but if a manager said a player with huge value will never play for the club again it wouldn't be the shrewdest move mate when club maybe negotiating a price for him in 3 months .

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27 Sep 2018 00:11:41
Couldn't give a flying and I'm not the manager. Pogba obviously won't be be rotting on the bench cause of my say so.
He is not a player that deserves to wear the United shirt and has no respect for the club.
Speaking of why was he not in his United tracksuit last night instead bud wearing his spiceboy white.
Name me 5 games where he has been world class for United.

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27 Sep 2018 01:23:53
I won't name any games u miss the point completely, if jm said pogba will never play for the club again he would simply diminish his price, it's like selling yr car and saying u won't drive it ever again because u dislike it so much then hoping u get a good offer .
I don't have any idea what yr wanting the club to do, you have stated a private view pogba should never play for utd again then when it's pointed out that's an expensive point to make you have simply replied well the club won't do as you say now name name 5 good games he's played and what colour tracksuit was he wearing at the match .

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27 Sep 2018 07:28:28
Slate what are u on about, obviously I completely get your point, like your staying the bloody obvious.
The club or the manager obviously aren't going to let pogba rot in the reserves when they can get 90m for him.
You've missed my point entirely, I personally couldn't care less about the money side of things, I don't rate pogba as a player, I don't rate him from what I see of him as a person and I think it is an absolute joke that he turns up in a white tracksuit whilst his the likes of Shaw and Pereirra who are also in the stands beside him are in their squad tracsuits.
This to me shows he obviously had 0 respect for the club. I can't think of another united player has ever done something like this.
He is I disgrace and it should not be tolerated.
I do not want this overrated brat playing for my club.

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26 Sep 2018 20:07:59
It's quite obvious now that there is a fraction in the camp, players management. Who's at fault we don't really know and can only speculate. Looks like Pogba is now trying to get fans in his side with his interview on old Trafford being attack attack attack etc and that the manager not of the same mind. Is this Pogba looking at Jose playing to the fans in the last few weeks and Pogba worried the fans were turning on him not Jose? In the mean time the fans are suffering!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

26 Sep 2018 20:49:25
It’s two egotists battling it out to ‘prove’ they’re not to blame for their poor form. Neither wants to be here, and both will be gone by the start of next season.

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26 Sep 2018 19:58:50
Just out of curiosity what do posters think should be done regarding the pogba mourinho situation?

1.) Keep Pogba, Sack Jose (in the hope pogba settles under a new manager) .

2.) Sell Pogba, Back Jose (in the hope mourinho can build a side in his own image with the money) .

3.) Sell Pogba, Sack Jose (fresh start under new manager and rid of a player who would prefer not to be here) .

4.) Keep Pogba, Back Jose (in the hope they can patch things up and we can find form again) .

Personally i don't see 2 and 4 as viable options.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

26 Sep 2018 20:35:26
Bring back Michael Knighton to do a few kick ups or peeping tom Martin Edwards, it certainly needs shaking up.

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26 Sep 2018 20:39:26
Neither really want to be here anyway, so 3 is the only real choice. Backing any player over a manager sets a very dangerous precedent - irrespective of what you think of that manager. Pogba is as good as gone already, so 1 and 4 are out of the equation. Jose clearly does not have the full backing of club management, sonthat also seems an obvious choice.

Get rid of both and start afresh. That would be best all round - but that is a big decision and needs to be taken with a long term view of genuinely rebuilding something that is clearly broken. The fans need to accept this for what it is. The 'demands' for instant success are what is undermining the club now. Mourinho is clearly not the man to rebuild the team, but let's not forget that this is not properly Jose's team.

Putting tactics and playing style aside, he managing a team of players assembled by 4 different managers, each of which had, or has a different philosophy, for want of a better word.

Whoever comes in next will want to continue their way, and that will including shipping some out and bringing new in - and that will inevitably take time.

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26 Sep 2018 20:44:00
If the club do anything other than back the manager over the player it sends out a terrible decisive message. A star player can run the club how he wants. It cannot be allowed to happen. The club have to back the manager right now.

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26 Sep 2018 20:44:53
Get rid of both and start a new. There is no guarantee pogba will suddenly become the world class talent his price tag suggests. He is very very gifted but his understanding and application of the game is appalling at times. When he is on song he is a joy to watch. But he holds onto the hall too much and tries to cruyff turn in ridiculous areas of the pitch. The wolves goal was his fault because he was pissing about with the ball in the centre circle. He should have been busting a gut to get back and remedy his mistake. Instead he casually jogged. It seems disgraceful to be honest. You can have all the talent in the world but if you can’t do the basics right and lack the work rate, then you will never be the best.

On Jose, I do believe if he was FULLY backed then he has a tried and tested way of success. I’m NOT saying he hasn’t been backed, because he has spent a huge amount and he is not getting a tube out of his own signings. That is unacceptable. But the signings of Alderweireld, perisic and Willian would have made so much difference to this side. Add perhaps a back up striker like perisic and you have a team to challenge.

Question is if the board aren’t willing to back him to the hilt, why offer him the new contract? They knew what they were getting with Jose, i.e a short term fix, then they should have understood all the baggage that comes with him. Now we have a key player who is publicly slating the manager, doesn’t want to be here and was signed for commercial reasons. We have a manager who again doesn’t not want to be here and is peeved off that he has not got what he wants. This is a recipe for disaster. The club need to cut their losses and avoid any further embarrassment and trouble that this will cause. It’s an utter shambles. Not sure where we go from here to be honest with you.

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26 Sep 2018 20:50:03
Shag Pogba, avoid Jose, marry Blind.

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26 Sep 2018 21:01:30
Tony epulf agree with the blind choice 🙂.

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26 Sep 2018 21:03:28
Haha brilliant Danny.

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26 Sep 2018 22:02:05
I really want to see the back of both of them now, leaving the game disappointed I can handle almost but these two clowns embarrassing themselves and more importantly embarrassing the club i can’t handle anymore. The should both be ashamed of themselves and remember which club they are representing.

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26 Sep 2018 22:03:15
*Tony would agree.

(Stupid fingers)

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26 Sep 2018 22:41:28
i can't see Mourinho beyond this season as Man Utd manager. Dude knows how to plan an exit!

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26 Sep 2018 17:59:28
Hi Ed,
Since Zidane resurfaces I‘d Lille to ask you one thing.
If I remember correctly he worked as Director of Football (or something along that line) before coaching the 2nd team and then the first team.
Is this correct and how much input did he have in assembling the impressive squad they have/ had last season?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I don't know what you mean by "since Zidane surfaces" but he was an adviser to the board initially (giving advise on transfers and the like), then an assistant to Mr Mourinho and then an assistant to Carlo Ancelotti, but he was there to learn not influence. He then took over the kiddies side. He is not credited with repsonsibility for assembling the firts team side as such.}

26 Sep 2018 21:58:41
I meant Zidane rumours resurface.
Thanks for the quick reply.
Was hoping that he was at least partly responsible for assembling the squad, apparently not.

Anything in the rumours he agreed a pay package with United? Supposedly to take over as from october at the earliest.

Thanks a lot. Have a great evening.

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{Ed002's Note - I had no idea Jonny - nobody has mentioned it hear today. Who has agreed a pay package? You mean Zidane?}

26 Sep 2018 16:39:21
How's Mou not backed?
How much money does he needs to make his team play a reasonable football for 4 matches in a row?

Mou has been here 3 years, how much he spent?
Which player he bought that has excelled at United so far? Is it Ed's fault?

Mourinho is ghost of himself. This job is too big for him, he's outdated. Always blaming the players in the press, the weather, the pitch, the money, the ref, the press, everyone is guilt but him.

We won the last EPL 5 season back and we are not even close to touch that trophy again never mind with Mourinho on the elm. Next season we'll be 6 years without the main trophy, and then the next year and the following year. How many excuses we'll come up with to always justify the mess we are in? Many will have to leave with the manager. We need let the deadwood go.

But stop with the bs about money. We spent money, it's was unwise but we spent.

I for one already lowered my expectations so I can be able to watch the games without sleeping.

This is how laughable we've become, successful outside of the pitch but mid table like team on the pitch.

Believable3 Unbelievable1

26 Sep 2018 17:15:00
We’ve become a laughing stock. Hundreds of millions wasted. Players on astronomical wages. The club is rotten from top to bottom. We need new owners who have a vision for the future.

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{Ed002's Note - What have the owners done wrong?}

26 Sep 2018 17:49:17
Agreed Ed002. As owners go, I think we have it pretty good. They are business people who are prepared to invest in the club and have done so with huge sums of money. I imagine their vision is to win everything they can. Why wouldn't they want to do that? They have made some errors of judgement with their appointment of the last three managers but at least they aren't slave masters or gangsters like owners of other Premier League Clubs.

What new owners do you envisage Blackpool Red? If the Glazers sell, who do you think can and will buy Man Utd?

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26 Sep 2018 17:59:43
We needed a vast overhaul of players when Jose arrived, was going to take a number of Windows. We all as well as the club knew exactly what type of manager Jose was before hiring him, we all knew he spends money. Either accept that Jose knows what it takes to get to the top, and it does take spending power unfortunately, and back him at every turn or don’t but if you don’t then he should not be manager. Don’t get the shock that he’s spent money, yes he has and identified we needed 1/ 2 centre backs that we all agreed on so the club needs to say ok Jose. Obvs some signings have not fulfilled what we thought when bought like Bailly and Lindelof so obvs he needs to be allowed to correct that or the club needs to say no this is the direction we are now going in, new manager as Jose is and always has been a chequebook manager.

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26 Sep 2018 19:37:01
The owners have employed the last thre mangers all of which have been failures.

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{Ed002's Note - The owners don’t pick the nanagers.}

26 Sep 2018 20:15:56
Mancman

These owners have not invested one brass bean in the club and they have not as you put it invested with huge sums of money. It was a leveraged buyout where the money comes from the club not them. Players are bought with money generated by the club, admittedly with their and Woodwards commercial acumen. You “imagine” their vision is to win everything they can, well it would be imaginary as they have never communicated. Take a look at their modus operandi at their US Football team and view their success under the owners model.

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26 Sep 2018 21:29:44
Redman, it doesn't matter whether it's their personal money or not. It's fairly earned income and they have authorised its expenditure which they didn't have to do so fair play to them. It make commercial sense for Utd to win things so as business people it would be illogical for them not to want that. Redman, I know you would prefer a dictatorial slavemaster as our owner or perhaps a Russian gangster would suit you, just as long as they were putting in their 'own' dirty cash instead of spending the club's legitimately earned (and taxed) money eh? . Well, no thank you to that as far as I'm concerned.

WRD, since Jose started 3 years ago, inflation on player prices has gone through the roof. The market has changed so I don't blame the owners for waiting to see how it develops before agreeing to spend even greater and more serious sums on individual players. For all they know it's just a bubble. Plus as Ed002 alluded to, their might be the emergance of more player swaps on response to the crazy prices for players.

There are many problems at Man Utd but lack of cash for players is not one of them.

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26 Sep 2018 12:28:34
Terrible result, almost as bad against wolves after given it was after the watford win.

Its a shame this site is rammed again, just aftwr 2 losses.

Posters dissapeared during the couple of wins we had but they are back in force now. Shows a true 'united' spirit.

Believable2 Unbelievable7

26 Sep 2018 13:22:17
It wouldn't matter if we lost actually trying to play football.

It's the fact after 3 minutes we sat back trying to play on the counter. 3 shots on target is a disgrace.

The football isn't improving. The marketing might be at a high but on field activities is declineing.

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26 Sep 2018 14:11:32
Ezrs, maybe those posters could see our weaknesses and negative style even in those games we won. Maybe we didn't want to praise the team for sub-par performances in those wins. And if we wrote anything negative after destroying the likes of Watford then the others would be mad at us. Another reason can be that it's human nature to vent out frustration and anger. And when posting here and sharing our opinions, it doesn't hurt anyone.

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26 Sep 2018 10:15:00
“When jones stepped up i knew we were in trouble”

Great motivational words there by jose, should do his confidence the world of good.

Believable8 Unbelievable2

26 Sep 2018 10:26:12
not really got to do with his 'quality' (which he severely lacks) but his body language, looked scared when he was walking towards the box.

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26 Sep 2018 10:32:55
He doubled down as well repeating the slating within the same interview! Also contradicted himself trying to pick a fight with the interviewer who basically summarised correctly what Jose had said just moments before, about him being disappointed with the attitude and performance of his players.

He is trying his best to look like he has control and everyone is friendly and all is well in the changing room, but by doing so he is blatantly lying. So he is getting caught out then throwing tantrums and repeating unintended criticisms about his players, to protect himself and to achieve the ultimate objective of portraying 'control'.

I have no doubt he didn't want to dig out Jones but he was too focused on trying to lie about the Pogba situation and trying to downplay the defeat. It's somebody talking that is not 100% focused, it's hard to lie if you are an intelligent person and the lie you MUST tell is so transparent. He seems all over the place and sadly this is reflected in our performances and the players attitude. Poor leadership is to blame for all of this.

he hadn't even thought through his reply about the captaincy issue, he looked at it from the point of 'I gave it, so I can take away', the world doesn't work like that Jose, makes sense logically, but it shows you made a mistake and you can't simply say it because of the ramifications. MESS.

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26 Sep 2018 11:39:43
This current situation is a mess, get someone young, hungry and with a modern footy brain ideas, i think Howe would be a great appoinment but not many here want to give him a chance, according to one of the eds the club might be looking at Allardyce ( i still don't understand how or why they would be even contemplating the idea) get Howe in, Pogba, Sanchez out. These are mercenaries. Bring players who want to play for the club. I'd rather see our young kids out there than this bunch of clowns. How the heck are we getting so many lucrative deals? I don't understand, we play horrendous footy and its been a long time already. The people in charge are doing a bad job. Why Ferguson picked Moyes is beyond me, our debacle started there.

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26 Sep 2018 12:03:03
When Jones stepped I knew we was in trouble too.

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26 Sep 2018 12:11:57
I'd give Howe my full backing. I imagine most Utd fans would as well.

We've gone down the route of 'born winners' who are now 'retiring boring losers', so a young, intelligent, passionate manager would be right up my street. Doing very good things with some very average players.

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26 Sep 2018 12:49:57
Tbh I felt the same. I thought he'd miss.

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26 Sep 2018 14:42:26
Jones would trip over before dating a hot blonde let alone putting the ball in the back of the net.

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26 Sep 2018 15:28:20
Moyes was doing some very good things with very average players too.
I am not comparing moyes with Howe directly as we all know Howe plays a much better brand of football.
Maybe keep in mind how it was said that Moyes did not have the backing of the players at United as he was not a big enough name and how some people also said we would never have made the big signings under Moyes either as he these multi-million players wouldn't respect him.

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26 Sep 2018 18:43:48
Imo Moyes didn't do anything good at everton nor at any other club he has been after that. He is just a horrible manager who at everton had a couple of decent players to not make him look incompetent (because that's what he has looked at any of the others clubs he has manage) Howe on the other hand has a more aggressive way to play footy and he is doing it with some very average players, just my 2 cents. Conte, Luis Enrique, Guardiola got their chance without doing much so why don't we give Howe a chance? Instead of another primitive minded manager like Allardyce? If we are going to compete domestically from now on we have to beat Klopp and Guardiola's way to see and play footy. Its as simple as that and we are really falling behind.

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26 Sep 2018 09:57:04
It has been apparent for several years that we lack true leaders like Keane and Neville. I like Mata Herrera and Fellini because generally they have passion for the badge but they are not true leaders. Pogba is not a natural leader. He is guilty of being too self focused but in the right team is fantastic. Jones and Smalling try hard but at the top level are not good enough. Matic is a good screen in front but he does not have the legs to consistently get up and down the pitch to help the midfield set up attacks. We need a midfield general who will dictate play and challenge and inspire the others. Pogba is just not that type of player. Blaming him for all our ills is unfair. Imagine him in City or Chelsea or Liverpool teams. He would be far more effective. We do not know what players Jose really wanted and could not get. As a commentator said last night he must have looked misty eyed at Frank Lampard who is exactly the type of player we lack. What is more serious is that with the first team struggling so badly he cannot take chances and blood our youngsters so their development will stall too. Long term the consequences of what is happening are troubling. Short term even Rashford is not progressing and he is undoubtedly talented and performs for England. The team showed desire last night when down to 10 men but the truth is that as a rule they just seem to lack a killer instinct. You can see how that frustrates Jose in his interviews. I really do not know how he can change this mess. If we go Gung ho with the defence and midfield not playing properly we will be picked off. If he tries to shore up defence it blunts the attack. I really do think we have a talented squad and need maybe two players to make the break though but don't know who is available.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

26 Sep 2018 09:40:37
Well the season is played out in my opinion. I don't think we will see anything different from what we've seen so far.

I mean why would we? We have the same players, the same manager and the same tactics. Jose will not change his ideas or style. There will be no Eureka moment.

We will win games when we are efficient with the few chances we create, we will struggle if we don't. We will look suspect defensively, especially at set plays or when caught on the break. Our style of sitting back and inviting pressure will mean defensive mistakes are more likely to happen and are more likely to be critical when they do.

We approach every game the same way whether it's a European champion side or a lower league side. Our approach doesn't change whether we are playing away or at home.

Sit deep, tight and compact and hit teams on the counter.

The problem is I don't think we have the players to do that effectively like say Atletico Madrid do. We also don't have the fans to accept that way of playing. As a club our fans have become used to playing a certain way. Acting like the under dog at home to a lower league team just isn't acceptable.

This means that every poor result will be blown out of proportion. It is a to of mix that will not end well.

I'm not saying we need to sack Mourinho now. But I am saying we should never have hired him in the first place. He was always a poor fit. If truth be told how many of us now would have been prepared to have LvG for one more year if it meant we got Allegri last season?

This is a terrible state of affairs the club finds itself in at the moment. A snap decision has caused damage to the club, that decision was brought about by the fans.

Yes Mourinho isn't the right man for the job. But the next guy absolutely has to be. That is a decision that shouldn't be rushed, that needs time and planning. And now as fans we have to be patient.

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{Ed002's Note - You don't want to lose sight of the fact that this was a one off draw with a progressive Championship club and no more than that.}

26 Sep 2018 10:08:52
It's a bit more than that now to be honest Ed. Three defeats to the newly promoted sides last season and defeat to Bristol City in the league cup, already an away defeat to Brighton, home draw with Wolves and last nights embarrassment demonstrate this was no one off.

The football is slow, insipid and unimaginative at best. I agree with Shappy we sit deep sit deep, have numbers behind the ball but show no desire to close down or win it back. We give other teams time and space and let them play. There has been no progression in the style of play and watching Utd theses days has become akin to watching paint dry.

I like Mourinho I can't understand why it's not working but as we've seen last night if Darby can play good stuff with fluidity and imagination whilst still working like dogs I see no reason why Utd can't do the same. The only conclusion I can draw is the players are following the managers instructions and tactics and he's failing to motivate them. We all know we've got no chance of winning the league already. We're now out of the League Cup. If the best we can hope for this season is 4th place then at least we can try to get there without boring us all to tears and tearing our hair out most weeks.

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{Ed002's Note - Whilst last season is of no consequence, this is all the result a massive self-inflicted wound caused by the toxic fans. You all knew this would be the eventual result of putting aside the well founded plans and making this appointment. It certainly does not help having a couple of players in the side who want out, but the club are going to smart at the cost of bring players in as prices are looking upward at the higher end. The worst possible situation would now to be price players out of a move - Pogba being an exaple.}

26 Sep 2018 10:16:33
And Saturday was a 'one off draw' against a mid-table prem team, a few weeks before it was a one off loss against relegation fodder in BHA. Also a dismantling at home by a Spurs team that looks out of sorts this season.

I strongly believed we would get beat yesterday pre-game - we were the worse team with 11 men on the pitch as well and the game played out performance wise how I expected - it shouldn't have surprised anybody that has been watching us for the past 3 years.

We got knocked out of last seasons CL by a Sevilla in turmoil at the time barely landing a punch. These performances are typical, but now even weak teams feel disappointed not taking maximum points from us (or dispatching us in cups), especially at OT.

We have had a favourable start fixture wise this season, yet look like going nowhere fast (compared to expectations) . I agree with Shappy 99% of us now could accurately predict how we will play each match and the same percentage will walk away feeling underwhelmed by the inevitable stale performance. A few will love it still, but they see the game through different eyes and are in the ever decreasing minority.

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26 Sep 2018 10:41:30
Ed of course last season is of consequence if the same mistakes are still being made and there is no evolution in our style of play.

I don't buy the toxic fan argument, we have no evidence Allergi would have fared any better than his predecessors, the stadium was still full every week accompanied by record turnover. If the owners took any notice of a few frustrated fans venting their frustration over social media then perhaps this explains perfectly why we find ourselves in our current situation. I have great respect for your input on this site and have no appetite to reignite old arguments but the toxic fan conspiracy just doesn't stack up for me. Sorry that's just my opinion based on my own judgement of the facts. We don't all have to agree and I'm sorry if I've caused any offence.

In my opinion Jose will remain in charge until the end of the season. Based on what we've seen in the past I fully expect him to leave if we fail to achieve a top 4 finish.

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{Ed002's Note - Last season is of no consequence at all - it is gone, history, nobody is interested. Of course you don't buy the toxic fan argument, Allegri is no doubt a hopeless manager and it was way better to give the contract to someone that doesn't see MU as a progressive club that will adapt to what he thinks they need; someone who doesn't like being in Manchester and don't forget there are those (two senior people) at the club that even now still see a blue tinge surrounding him.

Mr Mourinho made errors as I have explained - a major error in taking on Ibrahimovich - it is disruptive with the kids (with one specific issue having to be overcome by a third party) and of course he wanted to move elsewhere. I have explained that Mkhitaryan was a disaster waiting to happen, but he dealt with that. I have explained over and over that Pogba's career belongs in Spain or Italy - certainly not Manchester - but that is being dealt with.

This was not what the club planned or wanted.}

26 Sep 2018 11:01:18
Ed002 - Brilliant! - "it's the supporters' fault".

Of course it is, silly us.

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{Ed002's Note - I have been telling you this since the moment the toxics turned on the club and forced the club to abandon their plans. Perhaps you should go back and read what was explained long ago about what would happen, and then perhaps consider where the club is now. It is pretty hopeless explaining anything to most of the Manchester United supporters.}

26 Sep 2018 11:25:10
Ed I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think Allegri is an excellent manager.

What I don't understand is why the Club would shelve its best laid plans because of a few disgruntled fans venting their frustration on Social Media. I actually believe that if LVG had made the top 4 he wouldn't have been sacked and maybe their plans would have come to fruition. If your telling me that his dismissal had nothing to do with his failure to secure a top 4 finish and more to do with a minority of disgruntled fans than I must accept that you have more knowledge of the inner workings of the Club than me and are in a better position to comment. I accept you are only passing us information I just can't get my head around it. Like I said I have no intention of opening up old debates I fear I have said too much already. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my posts. Have a nice day.

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{Ed002's Note - You don't understand what was written about Allegri. I have explained repeatedly since the day it started why the club did what it did. It wasn't a few fans.

I will try and restrict what I put on the MU pages again.}

26 Sep 2018 11:47:00
Thanks for all info as always Ed, think a big trawl through past comments is in order to piece together the narrative.

To be honest, I do actually feel sorry for Jose st the moment / the ugh I don’t agree with the way he’s handling things by criticising players openly - should be kept within his office (unless someone is leaking the things that come out? )

He seems caught between a rock and a hard place:

1. Incredible pressure from fans used to success, from the media eager for a story from the world’s biggest club, from the board who need a successful product to sell to investors - and all with a team that he has only partially been all allowed to shape according to his preferred systems.

2. He’s got players who clearly don’t want to be there and who seen like a disruptive influence in the changing room

3. He wasn’t allowed to buy the defender we so clearly need

4. He’s having to rebuild after the fractious tenured of Moyes and Van gaal

5. He doesn’t like living on Zmancrster as his family is in London

6. Sounds like Woodward wants to bring in younger players also

Plus many more no doubt.

Yes he’s paid LOTS of money to sort this out but how can you physically make players play for you if they are determined not too or are just not good enough?

Personally, I think the only way forward is to remove disruptive influences and start from scratch. This might take a few years so whether Jose - or the expectant fans - can wait this long is another question.

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{Ed002's Note - (1) The fans are probably not bright enough to realise that success needs to be earned and other clubs have emerged as challengers over the years. If the club choose to appoint a manager and not entirely trust his opinion totally and were never going to give him what he wanted, they should not be surprised. You must remember that the club wanted someone else and had lined up a future that would have been very good - but that is all long ago and will never happen now. (2) Notably there is one who really wants to leave, but that has been explained to everybody here over and over - but they never believed it. Fortunately, perhaps, there was someone at the game last night who maybe able to facilitate a solution to that particular matter if an issue or two can be resolved. (3) Right, there is work needed on the defence but the "value" issue kicked in. In defence of Mr Mourinho will, probably rightly, deflect some concerns about the defence back to the club that would not give him what he wanted in the summer - and in their defence if prices had not spiralled so high then the "value" issue would likely not have been an issue. (4) Not an issue. (5) Of course not, have you ever been there? The grim, wet and cobbled streets Northwest of England where there is a significant cultural change, smog, dead & dying pit ponies laying on the street, little chance of football at the highest level and only chips and fried curry to eat. (6) Woodward is not the person making decisions about which players join - that comes from elsewhere. The "younger" issues arises for the "value" issue.

Mr Mourinho is paid to coach the football team, not to sort out the issues with the club nor the fans.}

26 Sep 2018 11:52:18
I've not been posting that long Ed I'll search the site for more information sorry if I've offended you or made you repeat yourself. I've only read about the Club wanting Allegri but shelving their plans because of the fans. I'll have a nosey through the site to improve my understanding of the situation. Thank you.

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{Ed002's Note - I am not offended.}

26 Sep 2018 12:16:23
Hi Ed, I always appreciate your opinions and insight. In your opinion what does the club need to do to get out of the situation it’s found itself in currently? Is it more an issue of the structure of the club and the beliefs within it that needs to change for us to become progressive again?

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{Ed002's Note - Recruit and empower a suitable Director of Football would be the absolute best thing to do to get back on track.}

26 Sep 2018 12:29:24
Ed002 - has explained the above situation re Allegri and mouinho several times and in a manner that all should understand: the only statement that can be added to what has been said is that not all fans were 'toxic' or thought in the same way.
Success is not a given based on many factors and must be earned but the first teamers underperforming, are not able to or in some cases are in the twilight of their careers; does not help the goal. This happens at a lot of clubs but man utd seem to have the monopoly atm. This has been the case before SAF retired and has not been addressed satisfactorily since. We have priced players out of a move through wages primarily and have simply put the club on the verge of self destruction of the successful campaigns we have come to have expected and this will not be sorted quickly. The fans are not privvy to plans within the club structure so I will ask Ed 002 if there is any thing in the pipeline that you know of that could see major change?

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{Ed002's Note - Nobody suggested all of the fans were "toxic" but it is the "toxics" who will always be vocal and louder. The club are continuing to try and find a suitable Director of Football - but that won't lead to an overnight change. If the club were to find the money and pay of Mr Mourinho then they would need a temporary coach, a new coach/manager, reconsider the various key targets as they are very much to suit Mr Mourinho's needs and choices, etc., etc..}

26 Sep 2018 13:06:44
Dear Ed002,

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain things on do much detail - just shows how little we know and how much the real narrative is occluded by other interested parties. Thank you for cutting through all the BS and telling it like it really is.

Your answer to No. 2 is very intriguing though! I’m guessing - or rather hoping - that a deal is being putting together to enable Mr Pogba to leave (hopefully Jan! )
I’m guessing the main issue is price, so maybe a cash plus player deal could be possible to make the finances more realistic.

Really hoping we get a Director of Football who can create a cohesive plan that can bring everything together for a brighter future at all levels.

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{Ed002's Note - So the situation with Pogba is pretty much unchanged. Manchester United are happy to move him on but will be reluctant to have a player in part exchange at all - but the cash price may put any transfer in jeopardy. Expensive, Barcelona will again try and include a player, work is continuing on trying to get a deal in place but there will need to be a message taken back to Manchester United that is at least worth considering - and don't forget that it is not simply a matter of the cost of the player, there are other significants fees that could make it difficult. Barcelona also have two other central midfield players they are keen to sign and circumstances could remove Pogba from the picture easily - they will only take two out of three at best having already made one significant midfield signing. Juventus have three high price central midfielders in mindfor the CM role but critically need to raise money through a significant sale. The other clubs asked about Pogba are not interested and in particular Real Madrid already have targets tehy are working on in midfield.}

26 Sep 2018 13:22:45
Ed002,
Are you aware if the majority of the players support the manager and his methods? Reports of him “losing the dressing room”.

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{Ed002's Note - I have no idea what these hip terms like "losing the dressing room" mean. There seems to be a thought process with the supporters and fans that everything was fine yesterday afternoon but after drawing a game and then losing out on penalties that there was some sort of paradigm shift.}

26 Sep 2018 13:25:40
Thanks Ed, I believe we have been looking for someone in that that role within the club for a while. Do you see a suitable person being recruited any time soon and in your view would the club be willing to empower the individual sufficiently?

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{Ed002's Note - Since 2016. I cannot sensibly answer "anytime soon" questions but the question about "empowerment" is very relevant. If they don't then they should forget appointing someone.}

26 sep 2018 13:44:37
can't wait for the club to do the wrong thing ed002, whatever you say, they end up doing the opposite. in a year's time, we'll still be saying the same thing 'we need a director of football asap', shambles, darmian valencia jones young rojo pogba fellaini martial out. glazers out! woodward out! it's a mess!

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26 sep 2018 13:45:14
toxic fans out! :)

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26 Sep 2018 14:17:06
Thanks Ed002, amazing insight and info as always. Have a good day!

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26 Sep 2018 14:20:58
Thanks for the reply ed002- much appreciated . The not all fans are toxic statement was aimed at the people who read but don't digest rather than yourself ; enjoy your day:)

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26 Sep 2018 14:37:31
Just to the people who don't think the fans can influence an entire clubs decisions, just look at Liverpool and how who MADE the club get rid of Hodgson for Dalglish.

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26 Sep 2018 20:39:59
Fantastic info Ed002.

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26 Sep 2018 08:56:26
I was at the game last night, fantastic free flowing for the first goal, exactly how we should be attacking and then that tempo and intent just went away, it turned into a mess of a performance after that. Loose passes, poor control, glaring misses from Lukaku, once again we only looked to pass forward when Fellaini came on the pitch and I never thought I'd say that. Truth is Derby outplayed us and aswell as they played it's a truly worrying sign when you get outplayed at OT by championship opposition. I honestly don't know whose to blame, those poor passes and misses aren't Joses fault, we should've been 3-0 up and game over before that wonder free kick but I was directly in line with the United attack second half and there was ZERO movement, if Lukaku didn't move there was nothing, the crowd made that second goal come when we lifted the team and so Jose must take a lot of the blame for the lack of any cohesion and style and attacking intent whatsoever, the players must take a lot of the blame for not killing the game off when they could have, not a great mix and one that's going to lead to a happy ending as we, jose and the players all grow frustrated with each other.
West Ham away Saturday is truly must win as this ticking bomb cannot continue.

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26 Sep 2018 10:02:28
The amount of passes behind the player, as in not enough pace, last night was incredible. Every second pass seen 1 of our players break stride, or even take a step or 2 backwards just to receive the ball? Is this laziness/ lack of concentration / lethargy or just down right sloppiness? ( or a combo of them all)

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Review Of The Day 26th September 2018

26 Sep 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 26th September 2018

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26 Sep 2018 07:07:14
Defending Mourinho is because near enough impossible now and I think a sacking is around the corner. It'd be a shame, I wanted it to work and I've always admired Mourinho for the results he's achieved over the years. Maybe this was a step too far, maybe the ethos of those involved doesn't fit, there's no shame in that. Zidane's record is exemplary and I think he would be my top pick of those available, alternatively Luis Enrique would get us on the track of attacking football. Not so keen on the Conte, Simeone or Allegri rumours and to have Carrick so high in the betting is ridiculous.

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26 Sep 2018 08:35:18
I think people will have to endure more of this i don't see any intent from the club to sack jose. Under lvg it wasnt till top 4 was settled that he was sacked. I think everyone needs to sit back n think its a long season and jose is going to be manager of it weather us fans like it or not.

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26 Sep 2018 09:23:40
This is the way for the rest of the season folks!
Even another change of personel and/ or manager will need time to get rid of dire habits.

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26 Sep 2018 09:47:16
Zidane yeahhh. No just no.

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25 Sep 2018 23:24:03
Does lampard deserve credit for how derby played but it the owners fans everyone but Jose fault for how u tied played?

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26 Sep 2018 10:19:51
Frank showed that he has been studying. I don't think Jose has studied for 20 years. It's what happens when ego-maniacs reach the top, they stop trying to improve and blame everyone but themselves. The few people that have the ego and still aspire to improve are the ones that are remembered for all time for their entire career performance, with a few exceptions.

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26 Sep 2018 11:44:44
Of course Jose has studied he's very tactically adept. The issue is now that the fans want attacking football which does not suit Jose. The fans cried for Jose to come in and now look its exactly what the football world knew all along an absolute mess.

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26 Sep 2018 00:00:41
Going out of the League Cup isn't the end of the world but the performance and manner of the defeat is very disappointing.

Some will argue that Derby were brilliant, that it was a fantastic performance, that they outplayed us for large periods and deserved their victory. The truth is we allowed them to play, we allowed them time and space on the ball, we allowed them to press and were sloppy in possession, we made them look good. One team played with their heart and soul the other looked disinterested. One team ran themselves into the ground, the other sauntered around the pitch. One team played with hunger and commitment the other treated it as a testimonial.

Make no mistake Utd are a better team than Derby but without hunger, desire, energy and commitment it's an uphill battle no matter who the opposition.

Throughout his two year tenure at Utd Mourinho has consistently failed to motivate his players for the mundane, less glamorous fixtures. Defeats to all the newly promoted teams last season, defeats at Bristol City and Sevilla paint their own depressing picture. This trend has continued this season with defeat at Brighton, home draw against Wolves and now defeat to a championship team.

I'm not sure the players have downed tools, a last minute equaliser with 10 men proves otherwise but the standard and quality of the football is poor. The tactics are dour and uninspiring. If Derby can play like 1970's Brazil then why can't Utd with much better players?

Mourinho is still a good coach but he's struggling to adapt at Club devoid of any real winners but refuse to play as underdogs. He has attempted to dampen expectation rather than embrace it. He's failed to impose his siege mentality. These current players don't want to fight the world, they refuse to go to war, the fans don't want to see dogged football. We aspire to be better than that. Winning at all costs or by any means are not synonymous with a Club than conquered Europe from the ashes of Munich playing with bravery, flair and imagination. We've seen tonight that it's possible for a team to play good football despite not having the best players. All that's required is a vision and commitment to play the game the right way and the bravery and courage to execute it. Since Fergi retired the emphasis has been about stopping the opposition rather than playing on the front foot. About avoiding defeat rather than winning, about not conceding rather than scoring, about defence rather than attack. We play with fear and self doubt rather than confidence and composure.

Mourinho is a winner but his methods are outdated and he's struggling to adapt to the modern player. The real men of football are a dying breed. Only the strongest thrive from constant criticism. Modern egos need massaging not provoking. They need to feel wanted and valued not used and abused, they are not a commodity to be cast aside so the manager can flex his muscles and score cheap points in the hope of provoking a reaction. All the mind games, relentless criticism, tough love must eventually become exhausting for even the toughest of characters.

Maybe Mourinho needs to leave Utd for the sake of his own career, for the sake of his own sanity and happiness. It's now even obvious to me one of his staunchest supporters that this marriage of convenience is coming to an end. There have been some good times, success even but it was never built to last.

For Utd the search continues.

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26 Sep 2018 08:21:54
DLIB

Excellent post covering everything. After dropping points at home to Wolves a home game against Derby is just what the doctor ordered to get Wolves out of your system. No disrespect to Derby but that Manchester United should be beating them at home and not allowing them play and dictate the game.

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26 Sep 2018 08:59:26
Great post mate.

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