Manchester United Banter Archive August 22 2018

22 Aug 2018 21:59:44
Over the last 5 year Jose teams have achieved the following points
2013/ 14 . 82
2014/ 15. 87
2015/ 16 . 15 points after 16 games
2016/ 17 . 69
2017/ 18 .81

Last season just about par for the course for Jose.

22 Aug 2018 23:07:33
In 09/ 10 we came second with 85 points.

In 10/ 11 we won with 80.

In 11/ 12 we came second with 89.

Last season was the highest total since then.

Jose doing what jose does. Back him and you win things.

22 Aug 2018 23:19:21
Bar has been raised.

22 Aug 2018 23:23:32
Jose has been backed. It's now time for him to deliver. Football management is not just spending money. It is also time for Jose to keep his mouth shut in public.

22 Aug 2018 23:59:49
The issue the club faced this summer is a direct result of what Jose needs to win things. Jose wants to bring in established players heading toward the latter stages of their careers because these are the players who do best under him. But this is a blueprint for short term success.

This summer his two primary targets were Alderweireld and Willian. Two older players that could only be bought by paying massively inflated fees. Potentially putting up £150m with no real chance of any sell on value. In tandem with this, there is no guarantee that these players would be enough to push us above City. So the club balked, and Jose stropped.

My view is that Jose is still capable of winning, but his approach is nowhere near as effective as it once was. It is stale, and managers have found ways around it. Furnishing him with an unlimited budget doesn’t guarantee success, and his success is always short lived and implosive. The club shouldn’t have extended his contract, there was no real need. So we ended up with the worst of both worlds, Jose tied to a long contract, and the club getting cold feet about where he wants to take the club.

23 Aug 2018 00:14:33
If Jose wants to leave he will. If it means engineering his being sacked so he gets compensation he could easily do so. The fact that his family are not putting down roots and living in Manchester tells us he won't be here for too long regardless.

{Ed002's Note - He will not engineer being sacked.}

23 Aug 2018 00:36:14
Good post Danny.

23 Aug 2018 00:50:25
Contracts mean nothing if we hadn't extended he would of been in the last year and there would be even more uncertainty.

23 Aug 2018 23:20:13
I think contracts do mean something of course they do jred as you argued when saying the likes of rooney has a contract and had every right to stay if he wanted to.
But most people accept that when 1 party wants out of that contract a solution can be found but usually on unfavavourable terms to the party that would like to get out of the contract.
The club were wrong to extend his contract if all parties were not in agreement on playing style and personnel and future targets. I would also say that jose was wrong to sign an extention if he had no guarantees on the above.

22 Aug 2018 14:25:00
Just watched the analogy of the 98/ 99 winning the PL title sends goosebumps on my arms.
How I wish we are in those times again. I'm really feeling a bit sad at our current situation. Hope we get better. Of course in those days there were no media and agents prostituting players for high prices. In addition there was authority given to SAF and full backing. Players do not come out on media talking about SAF etc (nobody really dared) 🤣🤣. How times have changed. 😔😔.

22 Aug 2018 15:28:47
Its like a parallel universe now, trappy players and the executive waltzing into the changing room while the manager faces the press, i doubt SAF would have let deadwoods' feet touch., but to be fair to ed, since he grew that beard, left the communards and changed his name from jimmy summerville he's done well, i bet he's still a right dodgy dancer though!

22 Aug 2018 16:38:59
Agents and the media have always been dodgy. Its just with social media and 24 hour coverage its magnified.

22 Aug 2018 18:39:27
Class, what utter tosh, Jose has had millions and appears not to be able to get the best out of the players he has bought. If Ed has done anything wrong it is giving him an extension.

22 Aug 2018 19:00:52
AJH, how do you know Jose bought all these players?

Could Pogba be a club buy? Yeh he was, his agent revealed he worked with Woodward for 2 years to sort the deal. When Pogba arrrived Jose was only here a few months.

Matic was of course a Jose buy. And Ibra. Others I am not sure about.

22 Aug 2018 19:15:47
Ed said Jose wanted pogba tried to get him at Chelsea.
But why is that important? The manager has a say on transfer nothing more it's his job to manage the players .
There are other people for scouting etc.

22 Aug 2018 21:27:37
Jred
You constantly post it’s up to Jose to manage the players, that many times I gave up counting.
Based on available players, do you think this team of players is good enough to win the league or the Champions League?
We are nowhere near for me, so therefore 2nd was a good result. No matter how good a coach he is if the players aren’t good enough we won’t win the big prizes.

You also just said “the manager has A SAY on transfer nothing more”. Nice of you to admit he isn’t to blame for transfer errors.

22 Aug 2018 21:46:27
Red man think they are good enough to beat Brighton.
81 points and second yet not playing that well would suggest they can do better .

They are imo a better team than Seville who knocked us out of the CL and a better team than 4 shots on tacked in 180 minutes against them .

Of course the manager only has a say in transfers sometimes not even that but what errors are you talking about
Sanchez? Great player
Pogba great player
Bailly looks a talent
Martial looks a talent
Miki very good player
Shame the manager can't get them playing to there potential . If he could we would of done even better in the league and CL.

22 Aug 2018 21:50:35
Redman
I know you think Jose can do no wrong and he is the best about it's everyone else fault etc etc.
But for me he is past his best has been for a few year .
I was a big fan still think he is a decent coach but he is past his best.

22 Aug 2018 22:15:02
Jred
Reading your list it sounds like you were the scout for some of the substandard players. My position was clear on Jose ever since I said we should have gone for Pep after LvG.

22 Aug 2018 22:27:00
Don’t always agree complatelet with jred but he’s on the money here. Good Manager but past his best. The Seville loss was a tragedy, losing to Brighton again was very poor, the style we see is just not acceptable.

22 Aug 2018 17:18:01
Agents aren’t dodgy. Their job is to get the most money for themselves and their clients. Foootball went down the commercial route decades ago. What do you expect agents to do?

22 Aug 2018 22:32:49
Redman
There all good players I could go on .
You position has been very clear on Jose we have read it .

22 Aug 2018 22:48:08
Jred
I agree with what Neville said about Woodward supporting the manager. I would add that when Neville is negative about Jose some on here are in raptures but when he made recent comments it was like watching tumbleweed. I don’t think there is this magic answer some seem to think there is.

22 Aug 2018 23:08:59
Redman
Some of what he said I would agree with some I wouldn't same as scholes .
Neville has also been very critical of our style of play in the past .
There isn't a magic answer but this blind faith in Jose isn't the answer either .
People on the site are obsessed with buying players it's the answer to everything .
Do you not think Sanchez pogba are top level players? Would you not be worried if you had a manager that couldn't get them playing well?

Or if you had a manager that didn't back young talent at the the club that many other people think are the real deal .

Are the club not right if they were to say we aren't going to spend millions on short term solutions?

23 Aug 2018 06:38:18
Jred
I don’t have blind faith in Jose, I am not enjoying our football. I also didn’t enjoy our football from 1986 to 1990 either, or 77 after Sexton arrived or about 2005, it was equally awful if not worse. In our previous difficult years we didn’t get to or win finals, we have recently. We needed to get two key players and didn’t therefore it makes it difficult to fully criticise the manager this season. If the club had bought the players and things continued I would start to be concerned but right now there is far more wrong with the club than the manager or should I now call him head coach. Also we have only played 2 games, a damp dire performance on Monday will be difficult to stomach, but let’s see what happens.

23 Aug 2018 10:15:10
Redman
Really? Because it has been constant excuses and everyone but Jose fault for 2 season now .

23 Aug 2018 12:39:57
Jred

Perhaps I can see the other issues in the club and don’t blame all our ills on the manager, nor am I a Glazer/ Woodward apologist.

22 Aug 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 22nd August 2018

21 Aug 2018 23:31:09
I was at the Brighton game on Sunday. What bothered me most was the fact that the Brighton team were set up in a very similar way to last season. Their tactics were relatively predictable. And in the first half Jose set up pretty defensively. Yet by half time, Brighton led 3-1, and this was almost entirely due to effort and endeavour. Hughton has drilled his team, and they played for each other. United did not. For me, this is the problem right now. It's not about whether Lindelof is good enough, it's about players caring about the collective. And this is largely the remit of the manager, and to a lesser extent the captain.

{Ed0333's Note - absolutely agree mate very well articulated.

22 Aug 2018 01:33:18
I think you’re right there. The central issue is that the players aren’t buying into the manager’s approach. In the best sides the players are committed to the manager’s plan. You could see it with us under SAF, and with City under Pep. Some of the blame lies with the players because they’re paid to give their all regardless of the manager, but the reality is that it’s hard to play at your best if you don’t believe in the manager or their approach. If enough players are not on the same page as the manager that presents a big problem.

The club had two choices this summer: back the manager by bringing in players who do believe in his approach, or bring in new manager. In the end they’ve done neither, and now I can’t see it as being anything but a slog of the season until Jose is ultimately fired.

22 Aug 2018 06:59:39
I too was at the game as have decided to only attend some away games this season. Brighton is a good trip and a fun city.

What needs to be said has been said and out Captain cane out and said his and our attitude was wrong. To me, that’s a huge dig at his manager and the fact the team are not backing him. We were too defensive, ponderous, slow and disjointed but we have been since Jose arrived.

Personally I’d make a change ASAP as he will clearly leave in the summer anyway.

22 Aug 2018 12:38:10
All those expecting a quick managerial change may be on for a shock. The Glazers and Woodward don't seem to be quick sackers. Moyes lasted almost the whole season just 4 games short and van Gaal went after the cup final. Based on this Jose should last awhile.

22 Aug 2018 12:57:17
Moyes went as soon as top 4 was not achievable.
LVG after winning a FA cup .
Jose will be given time.

22 Aug 2018 14:08:52
I watched the game and the reason Brighton were 3-1 up was because Eric Bailly had the worst game of his career and pretty much gifted them 3 goals, it happens. There were issues with attitude but I felt at 2-0 when we scored we would go on and win the game like we did a few times last season, unfortunately Bailly then decided to give a blatant penalty away for seemingly no reason and 3-1 was always going to be hard to come back from and swing the momentum. I like Bailly and anyone can have a bad game, but he needs to learn from that and kick on now.

22 Aug 2018 14:49:07
That's my point. Jose will get the time unless anything dramatic happens.