Manchester United Banter Archive February 18 2020

18 Feb 2020 21:50:48
That Simone, I'd love to see him managing united, what a manager, urging his players on, urging the fans on, kicking every ball, and after how many years the players still seem to respect him, I love little nutters bring him to united.

{Ed047's Note - apparently not for you Leahy, Shappy’s not a fan. Soz 😉

18 Feb 2020 22:10:21
He's a great manager, but I prefer for my football entertainment to be on the pitch not on the sidelines.

I don't think his defend first style would fit well with the club. His footballing philosophy is very much in line with that of Mourinho's.

Great managers, but United fans need to be entertained.

18 Feb 2020 22:18:18
Exactly what we need for a few year's, make a solid team, get rid of a few strollers, good solid defence, good midfielders, and for a defensive side they create a few chances, some of the football is ugly be effective, ti's the best ugliest football I've seen. 😂
And then the other tie, haaland, no further comment there.

18 Feb 2020 22:32:37
Ah yes Shappy, you don’t think Simeone’s defend first style would fit with the club, yet think Ole’s even more defensive style does. Little reminder Simeone has won things.

Simeone is an inspirational leader, just what we need. This season Ole is treading new ground, avoiding relegation.

18 Feb 2020 22:52:22
I completely agree with Shappy. No doubt Simeone is a fantastic manager but I just watched a team nick a fortunate goal from a corner then defend for their lives for the rest of the game. Yes they worked hard, yes they were organised, but I didn't see much of a threat or any attacking style to their play. They didn't counter with any pace or conviction and the game was effectively defence vs attack.

Whilst Ole is probably not the answer I'm not sure Simeone is either! Just my opinion and I could well be wrong but I just don't see him as the right fit for Utd.

18 Feb 2020 22:58:35
Absolutely love Simeone but anyone that can't see he's Mourinho on speed is blind. It's actually ironic because its exactly how mourinho used to set us up to play Liverpool and we all hated him for it.

19 Feb 2020 03:53:31
Redarmy that would be a valid argument if OGS wasn't similarly defensive. It's amazing how ole fans want nothing short of a 2nd coming of Matt Busby or SAF to replace the Cardiff legend, who is oncourse to lead us to our worst ever pl finish in terms of points. If only they had similar standards for how a manager should perform.

19 Feb 2020 05:25:16
If Simeone was to come, I believe he will have a huge language barrier.
At the moment, Poch seems to be the best one available as he has EPL experience and plays good style of football.

{Ed047's Note - the problem with Pochettino is he won nothing with what was hailed as Spurs best squad which you’d have to agree was a fairly big step up from the squad you have now.

So play some nice football and win nowt or properly compete?

19 Feb 2020 07:14:16
He's like an Argentine Roy Keàne. Oh sorry is that me saying Roy should be our Manager 😂😁.

19 Feb 2020 08:07:11
Moyes I never mentioned OGS. Obviously he is out of his depth, but simeone is not the solution.

19 Feb 2020 08:39:37
Hard to disagree with you there Ed047 regarding Poch's lack of trophies, but at United he can probably target top players which Spurs maybe couldn't afford.

{Ed047's Note - but getting top top players doesn’t seem to be where you’re heading.

It’s difficult to know where your going to go, is Allegri going to play the football you want.

Would they risk the likes of Tedesco or Bielsa or even Rodgers.

19 Feb 2020 10:04:54
I love how when someone who isn't screaming for the head of Ole says they don't think a particular manager is a good fit, other posters take that as backing Ole.

Ole is clearly out of his depth, and needs to be replaced. He is not the long term option. For me the sticking point with Ole isn't about replacing him, but about when and with who. The club needs a solid long term vision about where they want to go and how they intend to get there.

Just because Ole isn't the right man for the job that doesn't mean Simeone is.

I like Simeone, I think he is an excellent coach and has done very well with Atletico. However, I also feel has has managed to achieve more than he might otherwise be able to because of his special relationship at Atletico. I think he would be a good manager in Italy, or at another side that is often seen as the underdog.

Simeone often gets big results when his side are the underdogs, but can struggle when they are expected to win. His defensive counter reactive style suits that mentality.

That is why I think he would struggle at all the "top" sides in England bar maybe Spurs. His underdog mentality and defensive football would be too jarring for ourselves, Liverpool, City, Chelsea and even Arsenal. Teams that not only expect to be challenging, but playing well and in some cases with an arrogance as well.

For that reason I don't think he would work well at Bayern or PSG either. In fact considering Dortmunds last 5 or 6 managers he doesn't fit their profile either.

I can see him being successful at Inter, Roma, Napoli, AC Milan or Juventus.

I think the our club needs several key things from our next manager. First and foremost they need a clear and coherent club structure that enable them to have the platform to excel. They need a club who's vision of football is the same as their vision. Or in reality the club need to hire a manager who's vision/ style/ philosophy fits int with that of the club.

What that is or should be is open for debate, but in my mind when considering the squad we have, the style of football the club has historically played and the position the club finds itself currently. What we need is a manager with a proven track record of improving players and developing them.
A manager with a clear style. What I mean by that is a manager who always wants his team to play in a certain image, not a manager who'll chop and change every week depending on the opponent. I appreciate that certain tactical tweaks should be made depending on the opponent. However, I feel we should be a side that tries to attack and entertain, a side that looks to be proactive in how they attack not reactive. Fads come and go, tiki taka, gergenpressing, etc. But the first thought for any United side is how are we going to score, not how are we going to not concede.
Finally we need a manager who has won titles, it doesn't matter if that is several titles in a "lesser" league or a title in one of the top 5 leagues or even a European title. They need a rubber stamp that their approach has got results. However, that final point for me is dependent on circumstances. For example, a manager who has done great things in Ligue 1 but not won the title because of the clear advantage PSG have over everyone else in that league shouldn't rule that manager out.

For me people who should be under consideration should be Tuchel, Nagelsmann, Marco Rose, Erik Ten Hag, Nuno Espirito Santo, Giovanni van Bronckhurst, Rodgers and Andre Villas-Boas.

I'm not say all are perfect candidates, but all of them have created teams that play good offensive football, most have won a title or two, and all of them have improved the young players they have had under them. So all should be considered.

19 Feb 2020 12:13:54
Shappy - I think that's a brilliant a post although I'm not convinced by many of your managerial suggestions.

In my opinion the stand out candidates at this moment in time are Poch and Allegri.

Poch obviously hasn't won anything and there are question marks regarding his teams mentality. In terms of an overriding vision his teams play attractive football with an obvious and defined style. He has good experience of working with and improving young players and of premier league football. He has also proved himself to be a committed and loyal servant and somebody who could conceivably be at the Club for the next 5-10 years (results depending obviously) . With his record of top 4 finishes, his attractive style of play, his ability to work with youngsters and the potential stability he could bring to the Club I think he's the obvious choice for our owners. With the increased transfer revenue available to him at Old Trafford I think the decision makers would hope that this would help to bring silverware as well.

Allegri is vastly experienced and a proven winner. He has won trophies with two of Italy's biggest Clubs and is no doubt a class act. I think there are question marks however in relation to his style of play which is perhaps more pragmatic and defensive especially when compared to Poch. He has no experience of the premier league and doesn't speak the language and it remains to be seen how long he would want to remain at the Club.

In my opinion at this moment in time the Club isn't ready to win silverware. It requires gradually rebuilding, with a commitment to play attacking and attractive football and to be in position to take advantage when Pep and Klopp eventually move on which I think will be in the next few years therefore I would edge towards Poch.

If we already had a winning team like just after SAF retired I would probably edge more towards Allegri.

19 Feb 2020 13:49:09
Agree with Shaps DLIB and redarmy. Atletico play anti-football, but by far the best anti-football on the planet. And that term is a description of the style, not a criticism.
He's got about 12 0-0's or 1-1s this season.
Just because they ground out a good result against Liverpool doesn't mean you'd accept that football 50 games in a season!

19 Feb 2020 14:41:19
DLIB, I certainly wouldn't be against Pochettino. But I would be lying if I said I didn't have a couple of reservations.

Firstly, his teams have often gotten themselves into a great position to win things but then bottle it. Against Chelsea in the league cup final, Liverpool in the UCL final and against Leicester in the title race. He seems to struggle to get them over the line. It's easy to argue that Spurs aren't equipped to beat the best sides, yet three times he had Spurs either within 90 minutes or a few games away from winning something and its all gone wrong.

Secondly, I'm not sure how good he is at developing young players. Certainly he gives them a chance and to that end playing minutes will improve players to a point. Yet many of the young players he is credited with giving a chance either were given their chance by a previous manager (Kane), or have initially developed but then plateaued. Alli, Dier, Rose, Davies, Tripper, Sanchez, Winks and Wanyama. All young players either already at the club or brought to the club by Pochettino who initially did well, but in his final 18 months had either dropped out of the team or saw their performance levels drop. While several of his signings have been questionable and you could even make a case to say his signings weakened rather than strengthened the side.

All that said he is still clearly a talented manager, but one who it is clear he needs the right set up around. For a start he shouldn't be in charge of signings. Secondly, it might be prudent to have a specialist development coaching team working with our future managers who would work with young players to help further develop them and to keep them improving all aspects of their game and not just the ones the manager values. As we have seen managers don't always out last the players.

As for Allegri, I'm not sure he is the right manager either. While no where near as defensive as Mourinho, he is another defend first manager. In my opinion his teams lack of creativity despite having some very good attacking players is why his Juventus side came close but ultimately failed to win the UCL. He had great defensive players, with huge experience, and talent in attack. Yet they just were expansive enough to score the goals they needed to carry them over the line. I'm never quite sure what his teams plan of attack is, are they try to stretch a team, hit them quickly, over power them. It almost feels like he sets up the defence and the midfield to not concede then allows the attackers to figure out scoring for themselves. Now I know that won't be the case, but clearly his teams lack some kind of offensive identity and for me that has been his down fall in the UCL.

Looking at our young squad, especially in our forward line where Martial is the most experienced player, with Rashford, James and Greenwood making up the others. I think for them to progress they need to have a clear system of attack to work in as they don't have the experience to adapt and change in game by themselves.

While its hard to point to which young players Allegri has developed during his time. At both AC Milan and Juventus he has tended to work with top class older players or players in their prime. Dybala maybe? Although I think it would be fair to say that until this season since moving to Juventus he didn't really step up, but played at a similar level as before moving to Juve but with better players around him. Were there any other young players who played regularly at Juventus under Allegri?

Also although not a huge issue, but something to consider with Allegri is he has never managed outside of Italy, and he has been learning the language recently, but it would probably be fair to say he will not have mastered it yet and somethings initially might be lost in translation.

It would be a huge no to Allegri for me, while I would be prepared to consider Pochettino. I just feel he will need the right structure more than others possibly.

For me Tuchel is the obvious choice if available, while AVB might be a surprise outside contender. Ticks many boxes, and has had a good career since leaving England and has continued to grow and develop. He has Marseilles playing very well, and has over taken the likes of Lyon, Monaco and Lille in his first season at the club.
While I really like what Nuno has done with Wolves, I do wonder if his style will translate to an established "top" side.
The dutch duo (ETH and GvB) would be interesting if the club has a certain vision of how they want the side to play, while the German duo (Naglesmann and Rose) would offer a different style.
While Rodgers for me is similar to Pochettino, but having actually managed to get his side across the line to win something.

19 Feb 2020 17:05:51
Shappy - All candidates come with their advantages and disadvantages.

In reality the Club have big decisions to make over the summer and as long as there is clarity of thought and a vision for the Club moving forward there is no right or wrong answer. It's difficult to exactly predict how successful any manager will become but as long as the decision makers have a good understanding of what they what, a vision of how they want the Club to move forward and a clearly defined recruitment policy the chances of success become much higher.

I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with appointing managers with differing philosophies or visions of how they want their teams to play but there must be an appreciation and understanding that each manager may demand his own players to best fit his system. This route may ultimately prove very expensive and involve the movement of a lot of players in and out of the Club. A steady churn of managers and players isn't exactly the definition of stability but I don't think it can be argued this approach is not successful. Chelsea haven't historically employed managers with similar footballing philosophies yet have continued to be very successful. They have predominantly tended to favour experienced managers with a history of winning and this method has kept them relatively successful for over two decades.

Without a DOF maybe Utd should consider the route of always appointing the very best manager available. One with a proven track record of winning at the highest level and allow them control of recruitment. Back them in the market and hold them accountable for a high standard of performance. If expectations aren't met appoint the next man with the necessary credentials to get the job. Eventually the right combination of manager and players will be found and the team will be successful. This approach whilst inordinately expensive demonstrates the Club is committed to winning and whilst success is by no means guaranteed using this approach it's unlikely the Club would endure decades without winning. Giving the wrong men time, without the necessary experience or proof of success and the acceptance of mediocrity will only prolong the wait. The clock is ticking and the Club needs to decide which direction it wants to go.

In my opinion the Club craves stability, for it to continue to be financially competitive it must have Champions League football on a consistent basis. This in my opinion is more important to the Club than winning. Of course they would love the Club to be successful but from a business perspective it needs to be in a position to increase revenue, sponsorship and merchandise opportunities. This can all be achieved by consistently finishing in the top 4. Based on the analysis of previous performances Poch is probably the best man to deliver this. He has a proven track record, has good experience of the league and proven himself to be a loyal and committed coach.

If I was in charge and wanted somebody that I believed could get us back into the top 4 on a consistent basis but would also play attacking and attractive football whilst also having a chance of delivering trophies I'd appoint Poch.

18 Feb 2020 14:31:48
Great to have Bailly back, for me he is the best defender we have, I know that some people think he is to harsh, but for me he fits as a perfect United defender, with very little self care for his body, probably that's why he gets injured, but for me he is great. I hope he gets more minutes GGMU!

18 Feb 2020 15:11:04
He's a nutter, which sometimes is brilliant to watch. At other's he's a liability who will either give away a penalty or injure himself.

18 Feb 2020 17:09:39
He can learn by playing more games, how to be more careful in those situations. On the other hand the balls and passion he shows when he plays and his speed is way over our other center backs, and he is only 25 years old, so plenty of time to improve.

18 Feb 2020 17:39:12
A rojo upgrade.

18 Feb 2020 12:45:49
I never thought I would say it but Shaw was excellent last night. Sharp, incisive and bold.

18 Feb 2020 14:34:24
I agree Jodler his best performances this season have bizarrely come as a LCB. I really liked the way he had the confidence and quality to carry the ball out of defence and even made some brilliant overlapping runs.

18 Feb 2020 15:42:24
It seems that Shaw plays better as a LCB than as a left back while Maguire is better when playing with 3 at the back.

18 Feb 2020 19:43:28
Id like to see lindelof with bailly and maguire also. Shaw looks better as a lcb to be fair. Less running for him and he looks more comfortable.

18 Feb 2020 10:23:59
Great result yesterday. The only change I would recommend for this formation is to play bissaka in the back three instead of Shaw and play dalot as wing back. This would improve our attack from the wing back position while also solidifying our defense with bissaka.

18 Feb 2020 10:48:25
Yes, apart from the fact Shaw was excellent again.

18 Feb 2020 11:21:52
I think it should be

William AWB Maguire Bailly Shaw

If play that system again. Saying that the one we played yesterday worked so why change it.

18 Feb 2020 11:31:23
I'm really liking Shaw in that LCB role, he has been excellent every time he's played there. I think it suits him as he struggles to get up and down the wing for 90 minutes, yet he often finds himself defending in areas he is used to and makes use of his passing ability.

18 Feb 2020 12:17:47
You guys missed the point here. No body is doubting Shaw's ability to play the position. I feel dalot is more suited to the wing back role than bissaka. And since AWB is one of the best defenders we have he should shift to the back three in place of shaw. Although shaw is good, I think you will agree that bissaka is better than shaw in defence.

18 Feb 2020 13:01:55
AJH, Shappy - completely agree.

18 Feb 2020 15:24:52
FlyingDutchman, I agree on paper AWB looks like he would be a better full back to move into the back three. Yet what we are seeing on the pitch is Shaw's best performances in a United shirt and maybe him finding his best position.

AWB used to be a winger in his youth, he is quick, a good dribbler and can pick out a cross. The issues he makes is often picking the wrong choice. However, with training and coaching he could easily learn to be more productive in the final third and become a top wing back who can pitch in with several assists while also being phenomenal defensively.

I think the we need a clear long term vision for how we want to adapt and develop this squad before we start making signings.

Are we going to play with a back three? do we want to play with wingers?

For example, If we are going to play a 3412 long term then do we want to spend a lot of money on a RW if they aren't going to play most weeks.

19 Feb 2020 05:16:38
Ighalo would suit this formation coming in instead of James who was bullied and couldn't hold the ball up.

18 Feb 2020 08:54:43
The difference in Harry Maguire when he plays in a back 3 is massive, he's far better player.

Bailly excellent on his return bar one nervy moment of which a brilliant tackle from AWB but he returned the favour for Maguire with a brilliant block after Maguire lost out and miles out of position.

We play far better in this system and AWB had a good game and far better going forward this game and a quality cross for Martial.

Shaw did well.

I think Williams still positionally all over.

Fred was great again should've been a penalty from him winning the ball back.

Matic was decent won then lost ball few times.

Fernandes you can see his quality trying the passes we've missed and always looking for the ball to move us forward l.

Martial too hit and miss in the game but brilliant movement for the goal.

James. I like him. He works hard but for me still not worth the starting berth but we've got injuries so can only play with what you've got.

Been great if Ighalo scored.

Did we deserve the 2-0? No.

Were we lucky with VAR? Yes.

But I'll take a gritty 2-0 any day.

Hopefully we can use this win as a platform and get a good run together. Hopefully players comeback from injuries fully fit and not rushed and play for the team.

I'll also add:

I think the first goal for Chelsea should've stood I also think the offside rule should change were if the part you score from isn't offside the goal should count. So in future goals like Girouds should count, therefore giving the forward the advantage.

18 Feb 2020 09:04:36
Looked like a blatant 2 handed push in the back to me

On the offside, with what u are saying, the striker could have a metre head start on the defender because his right foot is behind him but his left is a metre ahead

Maguire did get lucky as apparently it was no different to the one Son of spurs got sent off for.

18 Feb 2020 09:22:34
Darv, Fred pushed Dave into Williams.

18 Feb 2020 09:25:27
We should've had a penalty aswell. The foul on Fred continued in the box, albeit would've been soft but foul was in box.

And I mean if the part you score with isn't offside at the time of a pass or cross your goal should stand.

Goals such as Girouds should count for me.

18 Feb 2020 14:09:08
As it stands, he was offside. Harsh, but not unlucky.

18 Feb 2020 14:55:37
Giroud was offside that's clear as day for VAR and is something we'll have to accept whether we like var or not. If there was not var I wouldn't be to disappointed about that type of goal standing. With the 2nd goal it's a clear two handed push, yes fred did move azpilicueta towards Williams but that would never be seen as a foul whereas the push is a foul everytime so 2 correct decisions for me and a missed on for Maguire.

{Ed001's Note - if Fred moved Azpilicueta, then that would be a push! I can't believe you are arguing that by describing him pushing the guy, but claiming it is not the same thing.}

18 Feb 2020 19:12:56
How is that wilbot? His foot was in front of the last man, clear offside, as I said, the striker could be in full stride but his trailing leg be technically onside and that's the one he scores with. In this case clear unfair advantage to the striker but because his right boot is the only part of him that is onside you think it should be a goal.

18 Feb 2020 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 18th February 2020