Manchester United banter 5

12 Sep 2026 07:39:01
{Ed's Note - HughesGetPhckd has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool 2 Atletico Madrid 1: A Victory of Character

11 Sep 2026 21:46:41
My first United game was 1979, I was 14 and a bunch of us caught the bus from Longsight. In those days it was pay as you entered, sometimes you wouldn't get in if too many turned up.

It was always the Stretford End, sat on the bar with our legs through the railings (remember that? ) so you felt close to the action. A few years later we moved to above the tunnel in the Stretford End which was often scary with the crush of people in a small space.

It was an FA Cup 4th round replay against Fulham, we won 1 nil, with a goal from Jimmy Greenhoff, I remember it snowed. There were only about 40, 000 in the ground, people forget that Old Trafford wasn't always full in those days.

I went to most most home games for about 6 years before becoming more of an occasional visitor, getting to about 10 games a year. Then when the Stretford End was rebuilt in 1992/3, I bought a season ticket. The year of getting soaked in an unfinished stand was well worth it as we won the title the year after, and man, I can't believe we gave those tickets up as they were in a perfect spot.

When Steve Bruce headed the winner against Wednesday, the ball was heading straight for us, happy days. In those days, people actually sat down for most of the game. We then went home and away thriugh the '94 season, when United fans were dotted throughout most awa grounds. How times have changed.

My most bizarre experience was when I got player complimentary tickets from a friend who knew Sparky, I arrived to find Bryan Robson sat in my seat, a steward quickly found me another seat.

I loved going to games, the hum of the crowd, the expectation of what was to come, applauding Paddy Roche for stopping a backpass, taking the p1ss out of Ralph Milne, applauding Colin Gibson sarcastically after another cross hit row Z, looking after opposition fans who found themselves in the wrong part of the ground, it was such an experience.

Nowadays it is so corporate and money focused and the fun has gone. I still get to the odd game and in the main I don't enjoy it. Winning is all that matters, that's what it's all about, but the fun has gone.

I'm probably an old fart but the game has changed so much, and for me, not always for the better.

12 Sep 2026 00:08:34
Ajh, I think that's just a part of getting older.
I remember my father saying all that to me in the 90s.
Your priorities change as you get older, things that used to excite you don't have the same effect anymore. Nothing is ever like the good old days.
You get older and wiser, more cynical, less tolerant, and more resilient. Back then, the fans could relate to the players, and the players could relate with the fans.
Players now, in the main, couldn't care less about the fans or the clubs they play for.


I now wouldn't cross the street to greet any of them. Very few of them inspire me nowadays. I'm not just talking United, it's footballers in general.
Harry Kane is someone I want to sit and have dinner with and talk to.
Rhodri, Mainoo, Haaland, Martinez would be others that I think I'd enjoy talking to. They all intrigue me for many reasons. I'd like to pick their brains on certain things and learn about certain sides of their character that I admire and identify with.

12 Sep 2026 01:49:11
Haaland is a good shoot, Ken, I think. Very underrated character.

12 Sep 2026 06:55:06
AJH, my story is similar to yours. The difference being, growing up in the late 80's, early 90's, I split my match days between Utd and Hereford Utd (getting to Manchester on Saturdays was sometimes difficult). The gulf between the two clubs was huge, but the matchday experience was pretty similar in terms of atmosphere.
A few years on, I stopped going to both, due to playing myself at a half decent level, and then getting married and having 3 boys.
2 years ago it had been 20 years since I went to watch either team, and my then 13 year old begged me to take him to Old Trafford. After finally getting some tickets, off we went to Manchester, and blimey, how a matchday experience had changed. Maybe I just picked the wrong game, but it was like sitting in a morgue, no atmosphere, people watching through their phones (someone please explain this), more interested in filling their faces, and God forbid anyone did shout and try and start an atmosphere, people just seemed to stare at them like they were from another planet.

Utd lost 2-1 and, somewhere around £250 later, I was left wondering what had happened.
2 years on, I took my now 15 year old to watch Hereford a few weeks ago. As we drove there I wondered what might have changed, and I'm pleased to say pretty much nothing had, apart from buying an e ticket, and my son absolutely loved it.
There's no way I'll ever grow away from following Utd, but that loyal, friendly, local club feel seems long gone, and I know I'm stupid to compare that to Hereford due to the gulf between the clubs, but if I had to pick which team to go and watch, there's only 1 winner.

12 Sep 2026 07:48:21
My feelings and experience as well, AJH. My first game at OT was in 1972/3 when I was living in Ashford, Kent at the time. The only difference is that I never lived in Manchester, so I invested a huge amount of time and money, with like-minded friends, travelling to OT and away games. TV only for me now. Nostalgic? Yes. Sad? Absolutely.

12 Sep 2026 08:25:07
I was over from Australia and got some "dodgy" website tickets. Ended up next to away Liverpool fans for an FA Cup game. Brilliant atmosphere, but I was sat behind a row of people either spending all the time on phones or knitting!!

Last game was the Stretford End, and it was almost exactly where my season ticket of close to 25 years was.

Sadly, just not the same atmosphere. I put it down to the people who had the passion can no longer afford to go to games, and the fans these days are perhaps a little more conservative.

11 Sep 2026 17:22:23
Seems like common sense, methinks!

I do post about Academy issues sometimes and this seems to be worthy of comment.

As we know, we mainly play a 4-2-3-1. There will no doubt be occasions when this is altered, but it is the default set up.

As of now, both the U18s and U21s will be moving to this system, changing from the usual 4-3-3.

This seems a perfectly sensible thing to do, instigating uniformity throughout the club.

It is part of the plan to increase the chances of Academy players succeeding in the transition to first-team player, clearly knowing what is expected of you should significantly smooth the path.

Would not be surprised to see J. J. making a first-team cameo before 24th October! That is the final day for him to be our youngest ever player in a competitive match.

He cannot appear (as yet) in ECL.

12 Sep 2026 00:29:50
He really does look special iwotb.
I don't think he is training with the 1st team regularly, but maybe a League Cup tie if we get past Brighton. If it happens, it happens. It's not a big deal. 5 min cameo and not seen again for months is not how the record was set, and I don't think it should be broken that way.


There is no rush with him, which I'm sure you agree with.
Hopefully we can tie him down with a contract and see him flourish over the next few years. Without doubt the best prospect I've seen at youth level since Ravel Morrison, and id say JJ is even streets ahead of him. He has the world at his feet.

12 Sep 2026 10:05:14
Is there any danger that he will sign for someone else?

12 Sep 2026 11:36:36
There is always that gamer, Patrick. He could decide to do that.
Fingers crossed he stays.

12 Sep 2026 17:51:05
Ken, yes I totally agree, there is no rush. It does seem to matter to some though!

I was told that it is more a case of appearance's sake, and showing JJ how valued he is.

He has been training with the 1st team a fair bit, again, much about making him comfortable in that environment.

Patrick, yes, he could sign for someone else, every big club in Europe is watching him, including Liverpool!! Barcelona in particular are trying very hard.

There is concern at the club that it could happen, indeed the summer before last was his first opportunity to do so and there was genuine worry it would happen. It was down, mainly, to Wilcox and Vivell that he was persuaded to stay.

There will be another opportunity next summer for him to leave on a free transfer.

Clearly we are doing our best to convince him where his future lies and that, in the future, the 1st team could be built around him. Obviously, subject to him achieving expected levels.

I believe his father, obviously, a massive influence on him, has been offered a couple of private boxes, free for life, in the new stadium.

There is also significant effort being put into keeping his feet well and truly on the ground. Imagine being 15 yrs old and having all the talk and expectation he is enduring and not succumbing to some of the pressure.

Remember what happened to Ravel Morrison! Although I do not expect him to go anywhere near that road.

I just hope, for his sake, he manages to navigate a safe passage through it all, and ends up being a Man Utd true great.

11 Sep 2026 15:39:28
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Ipswich Town v Liverpool - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

11 Sep 2026 14:10:01
Job done last night. Strange Bruno was taken off to rest up. I feel we have great players for when we have the ball and going forward, but you need workers when we don't have it. Hopefully Balaba is that player. Still worried about our work rate and closing down without the ball; it needs to improve all over the pitch.

Been really impressed with Kobbie so far he's just a class act. Wonder will we see a midfield 3 for tougher games, 4-3-3 to be more solid, but who plays in that team?

11 Sep 2026 15:44:00
I could see us playing a 442 diamond midfield with split strikers, especially if Baleba comes in, as he can cover a lot of ground.

Can't see us moving to a more traditional 433 with Bruno in the team, as I don't think he would want to play as one of the wide players, and he is so good as a number 10/second striker role.

11 Sep 2026 15:44:26
He was seen limping leaving the stadium.

11 Sep 2026 16:17:43
I get the impression that Bruno wants to play every minute of every game. Carrick needs to be a bit more proactive in resting him, especially with him being in his 30s.

Last night was an opportunity to start Santos and rest Tielemans. Then Carrick could have brought in Mount for Bruno at halftime.

11 Sep 2026 17:05:39
I thought Bruno could have come off around the 75 or 80 minute mark, once we had the win in the bag, tbh, but he's never been one to be injured or subbed, so not gonna happen.

11 Sep 2026 17:29:40
We do play 433 already.

11 Sep 2026 07:48:20
I spent some time talking to a Newcastle fan this last couple of days and he loved Eddie Howe, gutted he left and said the OT job is too big for him.

I recalled to him that I saw Malcolm McDonald live in the black and white at OT. I believe it was circa 1972 and from the Stretford End I just have this memory he had incredibly bowed legs. Have you seen and noticed something unusual or different about a player?

11 Sep 2026 08:58:17
Yes Onana had very slippy hands.

11 Sep 2026 10:12:24
David Beckham had more hairstyles during his Manchester United career than we have won major trophies since Sir Alex Ferguson left.

11 Sep 2026 10:17:38
He also had sharp studs in his boots apparently. ?

11 Sep 2026 10:32:15
You could drive a bus through the legs of McDonald.

The thighs of Mark Hughes were pretty impressive.

The weirdest of all had to be the comb over of Sir Bobby Charlton.

11 Sep 2026 11:07:55
IWOTB, I was going to mention Mark Hughes's legs. I've never seen such big legs on a man! The joke at after-dinner talks from ex-pros like Lee Sharpe and Ryan Giggs was that opposition players have broken their own legs trying to kick Mark Hughes, and he never needed shin pads; his legs were tougher than the shin pads!

11 Sep 2026 14:11:01
Mark Hughes was my fav player for a long time. Big game expert too.

11 Sep 2026 14:47:37
Ports, Sparky was one of my all time favourites also. It was tragic what happened to his son recently.

Talking of thighs, see if you can find an old picture of the inimitable and true great that was Duncan Edwards. He had thighs to match Sparky.

Don't forget that was the 1950s when training was endlessly running around the pitch, eating steak and chips, yum yum, going to the pub and smoking 20 a day!

Although, I have to say, Duncan did not smoke or drink.

He was a clean living boy. Besty certainly did not use him as an example!

11 Sep 2026 20:28:37
I think it was Sheffield United away in the FA Cup when Sparky lost his temper. After being kicked all over, he lost it and kicked one of them up in the air. We loved Sparky on the terraces. He had big calves, and I think, away at QPR, they kept going through the back of him, but he was immense.

11 Sep 2026 21:06:54
I always felt he was one of us, although later found out he was a Chelsea fan. He typified a United player - tough, no-nonsense, never give up, and he scored some critical goals for us. Cup Winners' Cup Final and FA Cup semi-final spring to mind. Selling him the first time was scandalous.

10 Sep 2026 22:50:29.
Clearly we will face tougher games, but you can only beat what is in front of you. That was emphatically achieved, without having to put huge effort in and considering the upcoming game on Sunday, that was a pleasing aspect.

Some decent performers, Kobbie was excellent and I thought Yoro had a good game, some of his anticipation of danger was good.

Think this could be an important season for him, he needs to step up. He seems to be stronger, both he and Sesko (who also had a good game) have worked hard in the gym over the summer.

A clean sheet, yay!

Atleti away next up, a good result there will certainly put us in good stead for the tournament.

11 Sep 2026 07:21:33
My only comment would be that perhaps Bruno should have been given an early bath. Always a risk of injury when the tackles start flying.

11 Sep 2026 07:59:47
I thought Zirkzee looked very good when he came on. He always looks really good playing against weaker opposition. The problem is he goes missing in games against tougher opposition, but I think he is arguably the best player in the squad for link-up play.



He reminds me of Nani; he either plays really well and is a nightmare for the opposition, or does nothing for the whole game. There is no in-between.

11 Sep 2026 11:12:19
Kurtis, at one point I thought Zirkzee could do the job with Cunha and Mbeumo that Firmino did with Salah and Mane. But for some reason he just isn't up to it in the Premier League, or certainly hasn't shown this yet. He showed his class last night, and I mentioned a while ago, when the discussion was around him, that I think he is a great player, just better suited to Italian football! If we can get that performance last night into the Premier League, he's a great addition to the squad.

It's strange, because he has a good physical presence also.

11 Sep 2026 17:26:49
Silky, but imo, he needs a slower tempo than he gets in the EPL to make the most of his skills.

10 Sep 2026 22:19:44
That was as comfortable a game as Utd will ever get.

When they speed up the passes they look so much better.

Defensively the usual deficiencies weren't punished and City will obviously be a very different proposition. I like Amass but he really needs to fill out physically as he was easily knocked off the ball.


Thought Yoro and Martinez were OK.

My biggest conundrum is Zirksee. Clearly a talented player. Very nimble and high football intelligence but how do you accommodate him and at whose expense?

Overall good night and let's hope the team builds in confidence.

11 Sep 2026 13:40:52
Don't think we need to worry about Zirkzee. I like him as an option from the bench and pleased he's sticking around a little longer.

10 Sep 2026 14:57:20
Champions League back at OT tonight, that's a positive.

10 Sep 2026 17:04:25
Absolutely, can't wait.

We played them this afternoon in the EUFA Youth League. U19s play a mirror fixture of the first team games in ECL.

A good start. We beat Sabah 5-0. A certain 15yr old, JJ, scored a hat trick! We had 44 shots. They had none.

Hopefully a sign of things to come tonight.

10 Sep 2026 18:24:30
Back in the Champions League, but still playing on a Thursday night.
Only us. ??

10 Sep 2026 18:55:22
Sesko starting. Yoro too. Rashford on the bench. Will be interesting to see how Cunha does on the left, because he hasn’t been playing well centrally. But surprised that Santos wasn’t given a start.

10 Sep 2026 19:52:13
The CL theme always sends shivers.

10 Sep 2026 22:45:29
Nice easy win. I doubt they will get a point, but what a story for them to qualify.

10 Sep 2026 13:44:31
From the Telegraph: Since SAF and Gill retired, City have generated almost £350m more in Champions League revenue (prize and TV rights) than us. That's 3 Elliot Anderson's.

It's really depressing how badly the club has been managed. Woodward's misguided arrogance fits the definition of hubris.

10 Sep 2026 15:54:11
Add to that, the interest we have paid on the leveraged debt to purchase the club, and you can see the impact that has been made on the success of the club over that period.

An average of £50-60m more a year available for player purchases, or even keeping the stadium up to date!

10 Sep 2026 16:57:31
Worst thing that ever happened to United was Woodward, not just for this appalling arrogance at the way he ran the club but also it was he that helped the Glazers snatch control.

Hopefully in a few years his stain will have been washed away.

In the meantime I just hope the penny pinching rat realises he will not win the bigger prizes shopping at Aldi and popping down to the market.

You need the best to compete at the top and we are still a fair way off that.

10 Sep 2026 19:53:20
Whilst Ratcliffe enables the Glazers and leaves the debt in place, we will not achieve the success most want.

10 Sep 2026 21:50:01
I'm always amazed at the pass SAF gets, he played ball with the Glazers every step of the way, and got 2 million a year in return, not to mention the fact that his greed over a racehorse was a large part of the reason we ended up with the Glazers in the first place.

10 Sep 2026 23:38:16
Red Man, what is it you're expecting Ratcliffe to do? The Glazers didn't want to sell out. They wanted an investor. At least he's wrested away day-to-day control.

The only way the debt can go down quickly is if the club is recapitalized. More shares would have to be issued, which would have the effect of further diluting the Glazers' control, which they seem reluctant to do.



It's probably going to take a total of £6bn to both buy out the current shareholders and then eliminate the debt. It beats me why anyone would invest that amount of money to buy a company that hasn't made a profit in 5 years, and is never likely to make more than £75m in the near future, even if things went perfectly. That's football for you.

11 Sep 2026 01:25:06
Redman wants a sugar daddy. An oil daddy, a tech daddy, to come in and buy the club, clear the debt, and do it all out of their own pocket.
Back in the early 2000s, that was possible. But three figures now are too much for that. It's hard to be patient, but until the right buyers or a restructure are in place to dilute them, then it's a case of make the most of what we have.
Step 1, page 1: get the house in order financially. Improve cash flow. Return to profit.
The difficulty with balancing that 1st short-term priority, and maintaining a competitive team in a market out of all control, is not easy at all.

It won't satisfy many; the spike in the market has made it near impossible. Their target this year is top 5, reduce substantial short-term debt, and be in a better financial position to push hard in key areas next summer.
It's not for the faint-hearted, and some would say gambles have been made; others will think compromises were made, but everyone should understand it is all in order to get the business's 1st short-term priority done, which is to get the house in order.

11 Sep 2026 05:50:17
Bilko,

Correct, all you said. No value in the market came from that acquiescence.

Newname, share sale money goes to the Glazers. It will not do anything for the debt.

TW, I knew you would defend them.
Yes, full sale, and it needs someone who doesn't want to rake profits out of it. The longer the disparity between our model and City's owners' model (without 115 charges exploding), the more they will disappear out of financial sight to us.

We have been over this, but again, you tell us to accept the status quo with the Glazers, and yet you don't want us to believe you are not on the payroll.

Overall, yes, full ownership with a City-type benevolent ownership, with no debt, has to be nirvana, and if that isn't your aim, I question why.

11 Sep 2026 08:45:58
Does anybody on here know of any person in the world ever who has bought a business for an amount of 6 billion pounds and not looked for a return on that investment?
Does anybody know anybody in the world that has 6 billion in cash to buy a business?
Elon Musk does not have 6 billion in cash.

His company, Tesla, may be able to raise financing, but they are a public company and will want returns to please their shareholders. I don't think you have thought this plan through with all your management experience.

11 Sep 2026 08:30:13
Redman i don't have an aim i'm not involved. You have an aim for things your not involved in? Your sim is irrelevant and I'm not defending i'm telling you what I believe their strategy to be.
Ill tell you what redman don't accept it.
Now what's your next move? What are you going to do Mr don't accept it?

11 Sep 2026 08:41:30
So let me get this right. You want someone to pay 6 billion for the club and not take any profit out. Your are delusional and you'll never be happy which is quite amusing actually it sort of pleases me that you'll never be happy, a fan like you doesn't deserve to be imo.


You think i'm on the pay roll ??
Brilliant so funny.
So Mr redman does not accept our owners so Mr redman now that its official and you don't accept them what are you going to do about it?

11 Sep 2026 09:25:46
Tw

You had to do 3 replies because, clearly, you desperately don't want any fans to even consider a future without the parasites owning the club.

11 Sep 2026 12:00:21
You can absolutely criticise INEOS. They've made plenty of mistakes. The management structure, recruitment, some football decisions and the cost-cutting are all fair game. But saying they're basically the same as the Glazers ignores a pretty significant difference in what they're actually doing.

The Glazers bought United using enormous levels of debt, extracted money from the club through interest and dividends, and spent years treating United largely as an asset to generate returns while the stadium, training ground and wider football infrastructure were allowed to deteriorate.

INEOS, whether you agree with all their decisions or not, have actually invested their own money, taken a financial stake and are attempting to restructure a football operation that was already in a pretty poor state. You can argue they're going about parts of the rebuild badly, but that doesn't make them the same people who created the underlying problems.

And this is where I think the argument about INEOS "enabling" the Glazers gets a bit confused.

INEOS aren't the owners of United and they aren't responsible for continually funding the club on behalf of the Glazers. They've invested significant money already, and their responsibility is to protect and increase the value of their own investment.

If you think that INEOS should simply keep putting another £100m or £200m into the club whenever more money is needed, that isn't really a sustainable business model for INEOS, especially if the Glazers do decide to sell up and INEOS are forced to sell also due to the contract and agreement that is in place. The objective has to be to make United financially sustainable, improve the underlying operation and increase the value of the asset.

That doesn't mean INEOS should get a free pass. If INEOS can buy out the Glazers or keep hold of their shares and role but with the Glazers gone, then if in five years we're still making the same mistakes, the football structure is still dysfunctional, Old Trafford is still deteriorating or the new ground isn't up and running or in progress and the club has made no meaningful progress, then absolutely, hold them to account.

But they've inherited a club with an expensive squad, a bloated wage bill, outdated infrastructure and years of poor football management. That isn't something you completely fix overnight.

So I think there's a perfectly reasonable middle ground here, INEOS can be doing a poor job in certain areas without being the same as the Glazers.

You can criticise their decisions without expecting them to endlessly throw their own money at problems they didn't create. And saying they should invest more and more simply because supporters want greater spending isn't necessarily the same thing as saying they're enabling the Glazers.

There's a difference between investing in a business to improve it and continually subsidising it to cover its existing problems. That distinction is pretty important when looking at what INEOS are actually trying to do.

11 Sep 2026 13:56:18
Ports

I see no reason why any United fan wouldn't want a debt- and Glazer-free club. Unless paid to say otherwise.

On Ineos, it is just my thought that when they came in, the Glazers had issues with their other businesses and needed a cash injection. Handily, Ineos gave the Glazers the cash they needed and enabled them to stay longer and milk more from the club. To a lot of people, that is unforgivable; certainly for me, it is extremely frustrating. Ineos own less than 30%, so the Glazers still own the club. Saying Ineos enabled the Glazers, to me, refers to them giving the Glazers what was it, £1.5Bn, but the debt remained.

So the Glazers were not forced out.
Ratcliffe doesn't have a great record at the French club, Wilcox seems to have caused notable issues with Amorim, and this summer important work was not done. So the jury is out on Ineos.
There is no doubt Ratcliffe has business acumen, but his football acumen remains to be seen. A total fresh reset with no debt seems the best option. I can't see a buyer coming in and allowing Ratcliffe to do what he is doing. They would want their own people.
Nirvana is a fresh start with owners like City's and no debt.

11 Sep 2026 15:07:03
Redman, it's true that if the Glazers sell their stock the money goes to them. However, if the company issues new stock, then the money goes to the company. That's the only way to reduce the debt quickly. Both options will reduce their margin of control.

11 Sep 2026 15:58:22
But what was the other option, Red Man? Absolutely agree, we all want a debt-free, Glazer-free club (apart from Ken, who is on the payroll. ?) But that offer wasn't on the table, unless you are to believe the offer from the Qatari. Fella was real, which is questionable. So I'll ask you, what is the solution for this outside the fans protesting and trying to force their hand, which I am a supporter of, but how long is a piece of string.

You want the solution now. You're no different to every United supporter, so you're not banging a different drum here, but your constant rants offer no solutions, just you want a full sale. If that's all it is, then we all agree. Constantly bringing it up on here, do you think a billionaire is reading and thinking, yeah, he's right, I'll buy United!

11 Sep 2026 17:22:50
Hi, Newname
They won't reduce their control, no reason to.


Hi, Ports

See above. I didn't start the chain, the first three posts were about the impact, so why shouldn't I respond?
When they allegedly needed money, they were enabled by Ratcliffe Ineos buying in.

Now, likely we will have to wait until they need more money again. It is not one shareholder but a number in the family, so consensus is needed, or enough at least. If they feel the squeeze, likely they will look again. Rumours were around in June that early 2027 may see that.

11 Sep 2026 17:38:26
You're right, RedMan. You didn't start the post, and obviously you have never brought this subject up before, or used posts to keep on about it, so it was silly of me to suggest you constantly do. I apologise.

11 Sep 2026 17:24:15
Redman would you like to make a clear statement online that I'm being paid by the gazers or ineos. I dare you.