Manchester United banter 8

 

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16 Feb 2021 14:56:53
Is it just me or do others feel we should have seen something of Amad Diallo by now?

I am very puzzled by the non appearance, if you pay £37M for a player (no matter what age, Rooney was 18 when we signed him), then he must be in the squad at the very least and making cameos but we have seen nothing?

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16 Feb 2021 15:17:09
We signed wayne rooney in 2004 for goodness sake lol, nearly 20 years ago. The only appropriate comparison for wayne rooney in todays football would have been kylian mbappe in 2017 when he moved to PSG for £160m.

Im sure Diallo will get some game time this season but hell follow a similar transition into the first team like greenwood did, bit by bit because he still needs to develop physically.

16 Feb 2021 15:36:32
Diallo, the next Rooney 😅

He was signed for his potential, not sure he has played many 1st team minutes anywhere. Although let's be honest, its Oles fault, obviously.

16 Feb 2021 15:37:56
Rooney's physique was almost twice that of Diallo lol.

Diallo was sick last week and wasn't available for selection for U23's.
I believe the club is building his match fitness.
He was an unused sub for Atalanta for almost 5 months. An occasional sub appearance here and there.

Considering his quality, we may see him pretty soon.

16 Feb 2021 15:40:10
Have you see his build? he looks like Harry Potters weedier brother.

16 Feb 2021 15:53:16
Not at all. He is a young kid who has played 59 minutes of senior football for Atalanta.

Yes he was a big money purchase, but he needs time to adapt to his new team, a new country, a new culture and a new style of football.

He's played only a couple of games with the under 23's, while he was impressive in those games it was still obvious that he has some developing to do.

16 Feb 2021 16:00:52
DSG, I was trying to make the point of £37M for a player not to automatically be a member of the 1st team squad, with very little first team football, is a hell of a risk.

16 Feb 2021 16:48:08
But you compared him to Rooney when the value 17 years ago is totally different. It’s like signing a £10m player back then, he’s likely going to be a star but we need to manage him right. He is pretty lightweight but I wouldn’t say he doesn’t have strength, I think he will surprise a few, it won’t be long.

16 Feb 2021 16:55:46
Just look at what we did with Martial Jred, that was a big risk with his limited experience and look how good he turned out.

16 Feb 2021 17:21:15
We shouldn't be pinning our hopes on such a young untested inexperienced player. Also it is unfair to put such a young guy under such weight of expectation. Good on the club for putting his long term career and interests first.

16 Feb 2021 18:48:58
No issue at all. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see him at all this season in the 1st team unless there is a dead rubber in the el or a fleeting few mins as a token sin before the season ends.
He looks about 15. Lots of ability but epl is like a different sport to anything he has played before.
If he develops like many experts and idk people expect them he will have a very bright future to be honest I wouldn't expect him to make any real meaningful contribution fit a couple if years unless his development accelerates ahead of schedule.

16 Feb 2021 22:18:12
Ed says don't talk about money so let's park that.

So with that out of the way and 18 yo kid moves to a new country and has spent 4 weeks settling in, been in the match day squad and will make his debut sooner than later.

He's also tore it up at U23 despite not training with the team.

We had to wait (for different reasons) for Rooney's debut.

Fingers crossed Amad bags a hatrick in a European debut.

17 Feb 2021 00:33:56
crimson are you having a laugh at how martial turned out.

17 Feb 2021 05:01:02
Well, looking at how our current forwards in Rashford/ Martial are performing I wouldn't mind anyone in their place. Atleast a young player like Diallo would atleast get us excited and entertained.

17 Feb 2021 11:25:21
So jarred? It is just you 😃.

17 Feb 2021 19:54:13
looks like it is, oh well it is all about opinions.

16 Feb 2021 13:43:16
The biggest problem at Manchester United is undoubtedly the board, the incompetent investment bankers charged with running one of the most famous institutions in Sport.

Following the embarrassing pursuit of Sancho and then the desperate deadline day supermarket sweep across Europe many of us speculated that a title challenge was impossible and even a top 4 finish improbable.

The summer transfer window was yet another excruciating calamity where none of the top transfer targets were secured and the manager was sent into the season woefully unprepared with a rag tag bunch of summer acquisitions hastily assembled some not even ready for first team football.

Whilst I have sympathy for Ole and think he's done a decent job this season there must be questions about his style of play, coaching ability, team selection, in game management and favouritism. The Champions League capitulation still irks and the football has generally been turgid lacking any real cohesion, innovative or imagination.

As the season progresses I think we all expect to get dragged back into a dog fight for a top four finish and the expectation of adding any silverware is low.

Some argue that Ole is out of his depth, should never have been appointed and will never lead this team to success. Time will probably prove them right but in my opinion Ole has done a good job of rebuilding the squad, cleansing it of the perpetually injured, mediocre and re-establishing some harmony and togetherness following the toxicity of Jose Mourinho.

I think we are in for a very difficult and turbulent last few months of the season and Ole now finds himself in another battle to save his job. Ultimately Ole's legacy might just be leaving the Club in a better position than he found it.

I don't think our Club will ever be successful whilst Woodward and Co remain in charge and replacing Ole will not change that. How long before we complain about the next managers style of play, lack of experience or in game management whilst our owners continue to syphon money away from the Club allowing Woodward and Judge to saunter around Europe upsetting the elite and not delivering on their promises.

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16 Feb 2021 14:33:53
I agree with most of that DLIB. I don't have any love for the owners or the board but we do spend money. I think a decent coach could have us matching City at this stage of the season.

Posters sound like abuse victims when worrying "what if the next manager is just as bad". That doesn't mean for one second that we should stick with a poor coach in Charge.

There's things I want to see as a football fan. I ultimately want to see us win the league, I want to see us winning cups, I want to see us challenging, I want the emotion of watching the last 10 games of the season dreaming we can win it. I want to see entertaining football.

Our current manager doesn't tick any of those boxes unfortunately.

Imagine a Manchester United manager sitting 6 points off the top of the table with 45 points to play for saying "We're not in the title race". Criminal.

The club has to do what's best for the club. Ole in charge is a waste of everybody's time.

16 Feb 2021 14:56:33
Great post DLIB.

I believe it's a combination of poor recruitment and average management.
While our team is strengthened with the acquisition of Bruno and Cavani, several recruits such as Maguire, Fred etc, aren't of United quality.

Our club should be having best in class recruitment department, but given the expenditure, the ratio of successful recruitment is poor.

I also believe this squad is capable of challenging for the title mainly because the clubs around us have serious injury troubles. Although I'm an Ole supporter, I acknowledge that he is not getting the best out of this squad under the current climate.

16 Feb 2021 15:05:28
Mumbles

sitting 6 points off the top of the table with 45 points to play for saying "We're not in the title race", just shows how defensive Ole is. He sticks to his trusted players just incase playing an untried / youthful player does not work or not having two defence minded midfielders opens up our slow centre backs. He is terrified of losing his dream job and because of his fear, he WILL probably lose his dream job.

16 Feb 2021 16:07:11
Agree jrred. Neither a ole in or out based on the guy, but good guys don't always succeed and imo it has a lot to do with his coaching staff. Phelan is defence minded and negative whilst carrick lacks experience in the role. His go to guy seems to be mckenna and now fletcher another good pro but lacking experience.
If we look at the ist team 11, we have a keeper who's confidense is shot but also on the decline. A back 4 where everything goes to the left because the whole team have no confidence in awb unless he is tackling because he is feared to go past the 1/ 2 way line and lack of discipline, awareness and pace at centre back with exception of bailly who is injury prone.
Midfield we have mctom, promising, fred full of energy but suspect and matic whose legs cannot last. Creatively pogba, who wants out allegedly, fernandes awesome but not a one man team and vdb who has been screwed over. Up front rashford who imo plays better on the left has been shipped to the right to accommodatemartial who cried on to be the striker he will never be and Cavani although top top striker is 34 and was brought in as cameo player. Greenwood has to bodyguard AWB if he gets a game but reduced game time this season for whatever reason.
The pundits all rave abought the brilliant bench: stop press so does my mrs but its the garden bench! @
We are not much further forward than lvg era which was eyebleeding stuff to watch and many cry at the board but as a club we have spent and big but not on the personel needed.
the next 3 weeks could define or have a major indication of where our season is going but it could kickstart by realeasing the defensive and negative playing style we currently have.

16 Feb 2021 16:10:59
Mumbles If you genuinely think our squad is comparable to Cities then your either delusional or drunk, don't be greed and pour me out a glass of what you're drinking.

16 Feb 2021 16:30:35
I never mentioned that we have a squad or manager on par with City. Neither do Liverpool, the squad anyway. And they won the Champions League and League because they have a manager that makes his team greater than the sum of their parts.

You think Ole is over achieving in his role after winning nothing. Nonsense.

I said that I think a competent coach could have us level with City this season. I stand by that.

And I'm drinking Lyons tea, no sugar, drop of milk, stirred to the left.

16 Feb 2021 16:58:45
I think you're right with that assumption jrred.

16 Feb 2021 17:02:30
Over the course of a season the strongest squad wins the league 98% of the time. City's second 11 is probably as good if not better than out first 11.

When looking around our current squad which players do you think might be remembered as a United great come the end of their career?

How many of those are at their peak now and how many are you basing that on them fulfilling their potential?

I would argue that the only ones other than Bruno are 23 or under. While it was fun to once shove his words down his throat, on the whole Hansen was right you don't win much with kids.

16 Feb 2021 17:10:38
I think our squad is comparable to City's, what isn't comparable is our mentality.

DDG v Ederson
AWB v Walker
Maguire v Stones
Lindelof v Laporte
Shaw v Zinchenko
McT v Rodri
Pogba v Foden
Bruno v De Bruye
Rashford v Sterling
Greenwood v Silva
Cavani v Aguero.

16 Feb 2021 17:34:37
Mumbles i generally agree with a lot of what you say but even with a good manager in charge this Utd squad is not as good as City's. They have really good players and backups for most positions except centre forward which they will surely address. probably by buying Haarland.

We are second because Chelsea and Liverpool have not played as well as they can and due to injuries especially in Liverpools case. We need at least four top quality players to even think about really competing against City.

16 Feb 2021 17:55:38
Grims, the comparision looks cool except Maguire/ Lindelof vs Stones/ Laporte/ Dias.

City's CB's are on a whole different level.

As you say mentality is a huge factor as well.

16 Feb 2021 17:57:30
Again Salford, I never said that we do have the same squad as City. I said "this season" a good coach could have had us challenging.

We play City in the league twice. The worst they can do to us is take 6 points from us. The other 36 league games we play have nothing to do with City. Us failing to beat West Brom has nothing to do with City. Our failings have nothing to do with City.

16 Feb 2021 17:58:24
Mumbles - I can’t deny we don’t spend money but it’s rarely invested wisely. I think this board has continually delivered players our managers didn’t want or even need and demonstrated incompetence in the market the like of which we have rarely seen for a so called elite Club.

I certainly don’t think we should be afraid of changing managers and I’m not scaremongering I’m just not convinced it’s the silver bullet some hope for. Until we have competent people at board room level making informed, reasoned, sensible decisions with the best interests of the team at the forefront of their mind I believe this dysfunctional cycle will keep repeating.

I see Ole as a decent manager doing a difficult job with one hand tied behind his back. In my opinion he plays safe, percentage football often lacking ambition and sophistication not unlike Moyes, Dyche, Allardyce, Southgate or even Mourinho. I’m not saying this style can’t be successful but it’s determined by the quality of the players rather than any tactical nous or innovation by the manager. There is nothing modern or exciting about our play and if we want to challenge the likes of Pep and Klopp I think we need new ideas and a more modern and innovative approach.

There were times under SAF when the approach was basic yet he often appointed new coaches and assistants to keep us relevant. Let’s not forget SAF was completely schooled by Pep and made to look like a dinosaur in two Champions League finals. In 2009 he left Tevez, Berbatov and Scholes on the bench. Like I said I think Ole has done well to restore some harmony following Mourinho and I think our current squad is probably as strong as it’s been since SAF retired. In my opinion I think we should wait until May and see where we finish. Despite the recent run of poor results and predominantly turgid football I don’t think we should sack a manager currently in second place and we need to wait until the end of the season and see where we finish.

16 Feb 2021 19:09:41
You judge and compare players based on current form and how they play now in a top managers system. They seem better in a proactive and well coached system and that's what a top manager does.
Was Fernandinho the world class holding before Pep arrived? I think at the time most people rated Matic higher.
Was Sterling a world class player before Pep? He was talented and had many similarities with Rashford but he wasnt a top player. He became a top player with the guidance of Pep in the training.
Were Stones-Otamendi Company (at his age and with his lack of pace) Delph Walker and Ederson a world class back 5? Would you see them and say wow?
Was Sane a world class player? He was a wonderkid a top talent and untested.
They had some good and some world class players and a very good squad but people make it like they had 11 world class players because they want to make a point and excuses.

17 Feb 2021 03:20:58
Our players are better then citys apart from our cbs the rest lf citys players aren't as good as ours.

We are where we are because of our coach and our cbs.

17 Feb 2021 10:00:12
Wow Singh, I'll have a pint of what you're drinking. City have Mahrez and Ferran Torres on the RW we have no one.

While are you suggesting we have better players than Fernandinho, Rodri, Gundogan and KDB in midfield, or that we have better forwards than Bernardo Silva, Sterling and Aguero?

City have a far better defence, as seen by them conceding less than half as many goals as us. Their midfield is far better, while they have forwards who are top class and in their prime.

Walker, Cancelo, Mendy and Zinchencko
or
Shaw, AWB, Telles and Williams


Dias, Stones, Laporte and Garcia
or
Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe

Fernadinho, Rodri, Gundogan and KDB
or
Fred, McTominay, Pogba and Bruno

Mahrez, Torres, Bernardo, Foden, Sterling and Agureo
or
Mata, James, Greenwood, Martial, Rashford and Cavani

Man for man City have better players.

17 Feb 2021 10:34:44
Shappy, you could argue that City's defence has conceded less goals but they have also had to defend fewer chances, the Premier League stats show how few attacks they have faced compared to other teams. This for me is down to the midfield who are better at retaining and winning back the ball.

17 Feb 2021 10:46:09
Have to agree with Shappy here, some of these comments are quite funny.

B. Silva, Mahrez, Torres all walk into our first 11 for the RW position.
Sterling is currently better than Rashford for LW.
Fernandinho, Rodri and Gundogan are streets ahead of McFred, and it's a case of take your pick from their centre backs. Maguire and Lindelof wouldn't make their bench. Ederson over DDG too.

From our 11 I'd take Shaw, perhaps AWB over Walker, perhaps Rashford, maybe Bruno depending what mood he's in, but KDB is probably the better of the two overall.

Best case scenario we have 4 players who get into a combined 11. City have a much better first 11 and squad.

17 Feb 2021 11:33:32
Not 1 city player would get into oles team. They want to play football.

17 Feb 2021 18:25:45
Ken you win for best posted reply although it is a tad unfair on Utd and Ole. Still funny though.

17 Feb 2021 18:52:09
Fernandinho, Rodri and Gundogan are streets ahead, really. Fernandinho needs a zimmerframe he is so slow, Gundogan has been at City of 5 years, but has only been any good for the last 6 weeks, the rest of the time he has been injured or sat on the bench, 45% of games played in 5 years is poor. Rhodri is just the non-scoring poor man's McSauce.

{Ed047's Note - Rhodri the poor mans McTominay! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

17 Feb 2021 19:01:57
and Ederson over DDG, Ederson has a decent defence in front of him and has only made 2/ 3 of the saves that DDG makes. Just look at the number of times he has made an error that leads to a goal, Ederson is averaging double DDG.

{Ed047's Note - 🤣🤣🤣

16 Feb 2021 13:03:03
Good news about Mason Greenwood signing a new contract today!

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16 Feb 2021 13:23:14
Very good news. I just hope he continues to get the game time he needs so he doesn't turn into the next Lingard.

16 Feb 2021 13:36:32
Really good news, his recent form has been encouraging after an almost inevitable dip after a great start yo life in the first team.

I hope he can keep himself grounded and fulfil his potential and go on to become a club legend.

16 Feb 2021 13:45:58
Yh its great news, lots of areas to criticise Ole and his management but they way he's handled Masons development so far has been really good.

Didnt rush him in last season before his time when we had the likes of pereira, lingard and james playing when it would have been expedient to.

Also this season when he had his rough patch off the field, he took him out of the limelight and let him gradually ease into the season and back into good performances.

Just needs to find his scoring boots again.

16 Feb 2021 15:39:58
Brilliant news.

16 Feb 2021 15:41:50
Totally agree DSG. Ole has dealt well with Greenwood situation when the media was all over him.

16 Feb 2021 17:16:41
£18million for his services over the next 4-5 years does seem ridiculously cheap these days. Its the same wages we pay Phil Jones each week to cruise around Carrington in his yellow Lambo.

16 Feb 2021 07:39:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 16th February 2021

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16 Feb 2021 04:32:26
United are going to make Newcastle look like Brazil's 1970 World Cup team this Sunday if they don't get their act together.

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16 Feb 2021 13:24:23
We will probably win 5-0 and make everyone forget about the core issues for another 2 weeks.

15 Feb 2021 22:12:37
We are going nowhere with mentality. Lost or draw a game and it is the "x" who let us down or "z" etc. But when we were so so lucky to win a game (almost) none said that it was the luck and the "x" or "z" who saved us.
The truth is we have the same problems like when we had the "good run". When some of us told that we got pelters and we were accused that "we were satisfied with nothing". This team is nowhere near where must have been as a team. No matter what the players are. We are lucky and in false position, we had 3-4 good games all year. The main reason we are where we are is luck and the Bruno effect. Nothing else.

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15 Feb 2021 23:13:18
Herrera.
As you know I'm not a fan of our current coach and coaching team.
I think to out our position down to luck.
We are 24 games in and sit 2nd and deserve to be there.
The team has been resilient and as you say have put in 5 or 6 really good entertaining displays this season. But the rest of the matches have been a complete bore fest imo. Plenty of good results many in games that could have gone the other way but its not all luck. Confidence grew and we rode our luck and game back in lots of games. Primarily through bruno who along with Shaw has delivered most weeks.
We have seen those runs before under ole but now we are on an equally familiar downward spiral.
I didn't feel right to moan while we were winning. I said I'm happier with crap football and good results but if it returned to crap football and crap results I'd be calling for his head again. They worked hard to built a buffer To our other top 4 rivals for me now its a case of hanging on and hoping they don't improve. I don't think liverpool are too far away from clicking.
I've absolutely no expectancy and no faith in ole but I'm hoping this dip will bottom out soon enough.
Newcastle Chelsea City West ham are our next 4 league games with euro games and a cup 1/ 4 final in that run too. Let's hope we come through with some of our buffer still in place. With 10 games to go.

16 Feb 2021 00:09:05
The only improve we have is in confidence Ken and psychology. Ole portects his players and they play for him . That alone suggests that we are a happier place than with Mourinho. To be fair being better than the toxicity of Mourinho isn't too difficult. The bar is too low.
We have seen 5-6 good matches? You can say the same for a single Premier League team too. This is not an improvement.
I see an overaction with results because everyone see we are second and say wow. Are they so good? We lost 4 semi finals. In first season when it was difficult to lose 4 place we bottle it. Second season we were almost tie with Chelsea and Leicester.
This season that you all say how good we are doing we have already lost Champions League football, we are tie with Leicester and 4 points above Chelsea. A team that is doing fine (us) with a team not doing well. And only 6 points above Liverpool who has a hell lot of injuries and bad fortune.
I never was a fan of judging a team only from the league position because you can only take care of your own team and its fortune. Not others fortune. So you can be fifth and in the right direction because of bad luck, others being better, others overachieving etc. Or you can be first or second and in the wrong direction because others underachieving you are lucky etc. Personally i don't see a team close enough to be a top team and a team that are really good to challenge. We are where we are because of luck.

16 Feb 2021 00:51:57
you win nothing with clowns they belonng in a circus. the next few games will see u drop out of the top four. the sideways and backwards will not change the only difference is the two clowns before won trophyies.

16 Feb 2021 05:01:40
Doomsday brigade on here.

The forward line is not clicking at all. We need to find a way to get it going. We should expect more from them. Sometimes giving them the ball in space quickly should be enough for them to create something. Martial is not the same player as he was earlier in the season even. Rashford is overthinking and need to get going again (check his goals and assist stats for the league if you doubt he should still be a first team starter) and we are learning how to play with cavani - an actual striker.

Then you have refs calls. Whatever way you look at it, we had a few that didn't go our way. From Maguire's non foul at the back post a few weeks back, to Victor being mugged this week. I'm sure they will even out eventually.

16 Feb 2021 06:37:42
I will write it again

The team has no pattern of play, the sole tactic, no matter how the other team set up is move it wide to the full backs and then go inside and slowly across. Then look for an opening, repeat ad nauseum. We rarely manoeuvre to get behind and crosses are greeted with surprise. At WBA I watched Rashford get a yard on the full back, our forwards in the middle ready, yet he went back, then beat the full back again and yep went backwards. It’s what used to drive RVN mad yet it is what we do. Scared to give the ball away. Bruno tries things so gets shouted at by Ole, the ones that pass safely back don’t get shouted at. That in a nutshell is what is an issue. Safety first, don’t lose football. It looks like the sole way of playing. Fine if the opposition actually come out but when they sit deep we seem stuffed. Tactical naivety.

No doubt we will have some good games, score goals again but the same inconsistency will be with us whilst we have the present one tactic manager.

16 Feb 2021 08:29:50
This argument again.

We are 2nd because we have the 2nd most points.

Granted we’ve been poor in a number of games, but the league table does not lie.

16 Feb 2021 09:14:06
Typical Red Man, says we have no pattern of play then goes on to discribe our pattern of play.

I don't think you actually know what you're talking about, you've grabbed on to a buzz word and keep trying to drive home a near pointless point.

A pattern of play is exactly that a bloody pattern. Look up what a pattern is, it is a repeated design. The key word is REPEATED.

So when you say we keep doing the same thing over and over again what you are describing is a pattern of play.

What we lack is variation of play, the ability to do something outside of the pattern which catches the opposition off guard and creates a chance because we have lulled the opposition into thinking we will do one thing then doing another.

The problem is and I will say it again, we lack the creative individuals who can come up with something that goes against the normal pattern of play. Our wide players are strikers, players whose first instinct is to cut in on to their stronger foot to fashion a shooting opportunity.

Other than Pogba we don't have any deeper midfielders who are capable of quicker more expansive passing.

We need a creative wide player, someone who will mix things up and play in a different way. Maybe Diallo might be that player, but it might be a bit much to expect a young lad with only a handful of senior appearances and none yet in England to change things.

I keep hearing it's the managers fault, he's clueless etc etc, yet none of these people saying this can actually offer a solution with the players we have.

16 Feb 2021 09:32:52
Shappy I have a solution. Sack all the coaching staff and give every poster on here 1 game to see what we can do. At least it would be fun and not dull and boring like the last 7 years. We just keep going round in circles.

16 Feb 2021 10:14:34
Red Man,

Got to admit that was a funny first line on your post, describing the thing you said we don't have, knew I would look down and see Shappy pointing that out as well.

I think we have shown we can be entertaining but unfortunately when we play attacking we can't defend and when we concentrate on defence it nullifies the attack, we don't seem to be able to put the 2 together in the majority of games. The form is poor and needs to change quickly. I read this morning Ole only has a contract until the end of next season, I dread to think what this site will be like if they extend it during our next awesome run of results!

16 Feb 2021 11:14:50
GDS2, I hope our decision makers wait till the end of the season before extending Ole's contract.

They must evaluate the progress, assess other coaching options (if there is no progress) best suited to the club.

16 Feb 2021 11:35:46
Rashford is driving me mad at the moment. He is constantly trying to do to much trying to dribble through 3 or 4 players with his head down when is has options to pass the ball. He is so frustrating to watch.

Martial is non existent and doesn't deserve a place in the first 11. His body language is dreadful, he looks like he's reverted back to the old sad and sulky Martial.

I would rather Greenwood play on the right, Rashford on the left and Cavani through the centre.

The defence is a shambles especially Maguire and Lindelöf. Every time West Brom went forward (which wasn't much) they looked like they were going to score or at least create a decent chance.

That was a dreadful watch on Sunday, it was embarrassing.

16 Feb 2021 11:41:34
I doubt they would extend his contract before its clear where the club will finish. That said the only real problem at our club is that from the top we are run by rank armatures, so it really wouldn't surprise me if they extended Ole's contract during a run of poor form in an attempt to boost confidence.

Some people are adamant that Ole isn't the right man, and I expect ultimately they will be proven right. I mean if you back a football manager to be sacked you'll be right 9 times out of 10. Just a matter of time.

Yet the reality is Moyes wasn't the right man, neither was LvG, or Jose now Ole.
So why do people think that the decision makers who thought these managers were the right fit for the club, or that Harry Maguire was worth 80m, or any of the other expensive flops they have signed were good players. Why does anyone have any confidence that these people will sign a good manager next time? Or back them with good signings.

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we sacked Ole, hired Southgate then signed Mings as our top signing in the summer.

Would that be Ole's fault too?

Yeah, Ole probably isn't the right man, but he finished 3rd last season when most thought we would struggle to get 6th, while he has us in 2nd currently. He isn't the sharpest tactician, but he doesn't have a great deal to work with to be fair. I would argue that based on a COMBINATION of Ole's ability as a manager AND the quality of players he has available that currently the team is over achieving.

If the manager is over achieving then how can he be the root problem? Maybe if the club was run properly, with a clear structure, with a clear vision and with top people in the right positions.
Then maybe we wouldn't see decisions like Phil Jones getting his contract extended, or Romero being messed about, trying to get a few extra million out of Everton for Rojo for them to pull out of the deal and the club pay Rojo to holiday in Argentina for 18 months before cancelling the final 6 months of his contract and paying him to leave. Maybe we would see some clarity in the players we sign, players bought to play a certain style, that fit a certain criteria, that might mean we build a squad that works well together giving the manager (whoever he is) the best chance of success.

If you are unhappy with where we are as a club then point the blame at the people who have made the decisions that have got us here.

16 Feb 2021 12:16:43
Don't know what's happened to Rashford. He carried the team last year pre lockdown, he's not the same player now.

16 Feb 2021 12:20:15
Shappy

We are using a tactic but are using the same one no matter what the situation despite knowing it won’t work. In the words attributed to Einstein “ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ”

Perhaps we should use the words successful pattern as with what Pep and Klopp set up

Is the manager over achieving? Semi defeats and out of the Champions League. Judgement should be made when results are totted up, not in between.

Personally I think the team could do a lot better, the individuals as a team could improve with a more successful pattern, better coaching, a pattern that works more consistently is better thought out.

Your argument always comes back to Ole overachieving, I can’t see that until he wins something and see improvement in style on the pitch. We have had a great chance to challenge, yet have been poor recently, Ole hasn’t learned from previous poor patches, that isn’t overachieving.

We still have a chance in the league, in the FA Cup, Ole can still prove me wrong, I hope he does but I can’t see it, anymore than I can see a successful pattern there either.

16 Feb 2021 12:52:32
Fearmongering Shappy. That's what you're doing. We don't know that the decision makers will make the right appointment, that doesn't mean they shouldn't?

I do enjoy your posts but the last few have been very contradictory in an attempt to absolve the manager of any blame.

We've a poor squad according to you. But the players that have arrived are Maguire, AWB, Bruno, VDB, Telles, James, Cavani and a few kids. Players that have left are Smalling, young, Herrera, Lukaku, Valencia, Darmain, Sanchez and Fellaini.

I think the squad is in a much better posistion that Oles predecessors squad.

Ole is certainly not over achieving! He's won nothing. Zero. Finished 6th and 3rd. He's doing the bare minimum to keep himself in a job. You can take all the snapshots you want of us topping the table last month, means nothing.

Title challenge was over before it began. Now we have the F. A cup and the Europa League, which you said you didn't enjoy winning. Maybe that was because of who our manager was. Maybe if Ole lifts it, you'll be able to enjoy this one.

Our goal was to close the gap on the league leaders. We were 6 points behind 1st place with 45 points to play for and the manager said "We're not in the title race" he should have been sacked on the spot for that comment and sums the man up.

16 Feb 2021 12:48:43
Bang on redman.
You just watch how tuchel does better with the players fat Frank couldn't organise.
Same players better coach better football better results.
Folk on here were laughing at the chelsea squad under Frank whirly under achieving. Exact same would happen here with a better coach.

16 Feb 2021 14:51:04
Shappy. Ole didn't finish 3rd last season Bruno did.
Without Bruno we wouldn't of had a sniff at finishing in the top 4.
I have lost count of the amount of times Bruno has pulled us out of the sh*t and saved Ole from the sack.

16 Feb 2021 15:25:48
Tony, Rashford has been pretty good in terms of out put, 1 goal and 2 assists in his last 4 games. I think there is a combination of him playing many games even through injury while he has also been shunted about a lot.

We say about how well Shaw has played recently but if we played him at RB for a few games to fit Telles in at LB and his level dipped would we be surprised?
Yet when Rashford plays well on the left then gets shunted over to the right to accommodate Martial is it really surprising to see his output drop?

Red Man, you keep talking about this successful pattern, but what is it? Are you going to play Mata in the No.10 with Bruno in a deeper role to add creativity deeper? Are you going to push AWB further up the pitch and tell him to hit crosses in the box?

If I gave you nothing but pasta and asked you to make a pizza out of it could you do it? Or are you limited by what you can create by the elements you have to create it?

People go on and on and on about how great a coach Pep is and how he's taught all these players how to play great football. But how many of those players at City does he play with who precede him at the club? Hardly any, 10 of their typical starting 11 have been bought to play Pep's style.

The same thing to a slightly lesser extent has happened with Klopp at Liverpool. With only Henderson and Firmino being regulars who weren't bought by Klopp, while TAA came through the academy.

As for are we overachieving? To be fair we will only know at the end of the season. Do you think we had the third best squad and manager in the league last season? If so then we were par, if you think there were other better teams and better managers and we finished above them then we overachieved.

I think its important to avoid arrogance and be realistic. We are a club with fantastic history, but we have very few Premier league winners in our squad (Jones, DDG at United, Mata and Matic at Chelsea) . That's it. Two are past their best, one isn't good enough and the forth is declining. We almost have as many League winners in our coaching staff as we do in our team (Ole, Carrick and Fletcher) . In fact if you look at number of EPL medals I suspect our coaching team far outweighs our teams.

In the league I would say we have an outside chance at best, if City win their game in hand we will be 10 points behind and even if we win our last 14 games we will need Man City to lose 3 and draw 1 game at the very least. A 14 game winning streak to win the league and Ole would deserve a new 5 year deal. Decent chance in the FA cup, although it does look at some point we would have to beat a vastly superior Man City side if we are to win it. The Europa league final is 8 games away, anything can happen in that competition. Personally I wouldn't stretch the team too thinly to try and win it as I don't think we have great squad depth, not in terms of quality.

Our First 11 looks good albeit it with some clear areas that need strengthening (particularly in defence and a creative wide player) . While many of our most promising players have yet to peak. However our second 11 looks distinctly mid-table. I think 3rd is about par for this side, any higher would be overachievement any lower is a underachievement.

Mumbles, its not fearmongering. It's about having an objective view on the decisions made at our club at a level higher than the manager. The manager can only work with what he has. What he is given is determined by those above him. Do you think the decision makers have made good decisions?

Is the squad better than when Ole took over? Personally I'd agree I think it is slightly better. Is it 300m better? absolutely not.
If we compare the players:

Maguire v Smalling - Similar if we are honest. Maybe Maguire shades it being a few years younger.

DvdB v Herrera - Herrera did more in a United shirt thann Donny has managed so far. But again Donny has more potential.

AWB v Valencia - AWB is a clear upgrade as he can defend, both a little lackluster in attack.

Cavani v Lukaku - fairly similar again. Lukaku is much younger though.

James v Young - Similar but James has some potential, both never more than squad players really.

Bruno v Sanchez - The one obvious upgrade.

Darmian v Telles - Telles is the better player, yet he is up against Shaw for a starting spot who is currently playing better, so he has had little real impact.

Pellistri and Diallo v Fellaini - This one will all be about how good the kids become in a few years time. Right now Fellaini would offer more impact, but the potential of these kids is fantastic.

So Bruno is the one big advantage, with a few other "upgrades" of aging players with younger ones with potential. Their impact though is more based on what they will do in a United shirt rather than what they can do currently. So a slightly better squad in my opinion but not significantly better. Just a huge impact from Bruno.

I enjoyed winning our last FA cup even if I had to endure the matches rather than enjoy them. The Europa league means very little to me, it's like winning the 3rd place play off at the world cup. You win the game, but no one considers your achievements because its a second class competition. I derided Liverpool fans when they sang about winning the UEFA cup as it was then, I'm now not going to cheer it like its some great achievement. For what you have to go through to win it, to then not even be considered as good as the team that lost the UCL final just doesn't make it worth it.

As for sacking managers on the spot for saying things we might disagree with in a press conference, we would probably go through 7 managers a season. What a ridiculous comment. Press conferences are just about giving the media something to write, keep interest and excitement up so that football draws in viewers and makes the big bucks. 90% of what they say is pure BS. They lie about decisions in games, they lie about players being injured, they deflect questions and attempt to put pressure on the opposition and take pressure off their own players. If you listen to what managers say in press conferences and take it as gospel then you deserve to be mugged off. If you want I have a bag of magic beans.

17 Feb 2021 01:26:11
Not allowed to speak to the teams results until their all totted up. Except that when they were last year, there were reasons why that suddenly was false. Now we have to listen to this droning negativity all season because assessing it model year is not appropriate.

Some people just will never be happy. Chill and enjoy the sport. It is a rollercoaster with many ups and down. The downs helps to exagerate the ups.

15 Feb 2021 20:44:17
Chelsea are going to catch us aren't they 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️.

Agree2 Disagree0

15 Feb 2021 21:42:51
The dogfight for the top 4 is going to be very interesting. We went from top of the league to potentially 10 points behind City in 6 weeks. Our tiny cushion we have being 2nd could evaporate in a couple of weeks.

15 Feb 2021 21:48:51
Definitely going to be an important game in two weeks time.

Thankfully our record at stamford bridge is amazing, don't think we've lost too many there in the premier league years.

15 Feb 2021 22:06:32
There is still a decent gap to 5th, we need to improve quickly though. I’d rather be where we are than when Liverpool are though.

16 Feb 2021 00:15:08
We won't make top 4 with this defence and this manager. Both not good enough.

15 Feb 2021 23:28:42
It will keep the league interesting for the neutrals that’s for sure. the title is gone but the other 3 places could be filled by any of 8 teams. It’s squeaky bum time lads 🤣.

15 Feb 2021 23:29:30
I'm more concerned with the teams closer to us than Liverpool. Although I have a feeling it ain't be long till they are breathing dien or necks too.
We have a little buffer. Luckily only chelsea and West ham have taken advantage of our dip.
At this stage it looks like 3 from 6 to full the top 4 spots behind city.
Leicester. Will they collapse again?
United. When will this dip bottom out can ole turn it around again?
Liverpool. Will they start a run can they click again, or will they surrender?
Chelsea. My tip for 2nd. Did they switch coach just in time to get more from their good players? Yes the ones some were saying were poor players under Frank. Maybe he had good players playing poorly it happens as some of us know.
West ham . Can they sustain it? I don't it but stranger things have happened and i'd be pleased to see moyes do well it would be a great achievement.
Everton. Again not chinchilla fit me. Not enough goals. Lacking in full back areas. Not a good bet.
Imo another Leicester collapse is our best hope unless we start another one of oles job saving runs.
It will be smithereens run up a cul de sac (like most of martials) but it might get us to a final and top 4 spot.
If not its good night Vienna.

16 Feb 2021 08:08:01
At a guess we will have another good patch and scrape into the top four, we will be less than 20 points behind Champions City and the usual suspects will declare progress, Woodward will extend Ole’s contract.

I suspect Liverpool will focus and go on a good run, would not surprise me to see them finish second.

16 Feb 2021 10:16:26
Salford,

This defence and manager got top 4 last season and are currently 2nd, so your post is a little odd to say the least and stuff like that just comes across as an overreaction and hyperbole.

16 Feb 2021 14:00:52
GDS2 i think my assessment is realistic. We got top 4 because others imploded or didn't raise their game.

Even with two defensive protective midfielders we arw conceding too many goals. Most of the goals conceded are because of primarily poor play by the centre backs and to a lesser extent De Gea.

Gary Neville correctly identified the problems on Sky Sports. And yes the manager is culpable too because he has not addressed these problems. When the same players make the same mistakes game after game and when the team starts most games stuck in first gear it tells me the manager is not influencing the teams performance.

Lastly if Ole got the sack tomorrow name one top team who would take him on if they had a vacancy? City/ Spurs/ Liverpool/ Chelsea/ Arsenal/ Madrid/ Barca/ Athletico/ Bayern/ Dortmund/ PSG. None of them would contemplate him. I don't think he is a bad guy or a terrible manager but all the evidence tells me je is not good enough to get is back to the top. Not hyperbole. just realism.

Leicester City v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective

15 Feb 2021 17:10:49
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Leicester City v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective

Agree0 Disagree0

15 Feb 2021 17:55:30
I agree having watched the game it was a bit baffling to grasp how Liverpool lost it. Poor finishing left them open to a come back, but the collapse to me suggests a fragile mentality in the squad at the present time. It was like the equaliser went in and the whole team knew they would go on to lose.

That's should be a bigger worry than who's currently injured or not.

As for Pundits, I'm not sure whether they actually know what is happening during a game or whether they are intentionally being obtuse.

15 Feb 2021 19:21:10
Good review Ed001. I too think the mistake was from Kabak, he made it difficult for Alisson to throw the ball away. I agree too that the performance was a "champions" performance.

 


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