Manchester United banter 3

 

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26 May 2024 22:33:30
Now the season is over and we've played our last game, we’re getting close to where we will start to see genuine links to players and deals start getting done. That being said, here’s my ‘realistic’ summer window.
I think we move on Varane, Lindelof, Evans, Casemiro, Eriksen, Sancho, Greenwood, Pellistri, Martial. Amrabats loan expires and Hannibal and Antony amongst a few lads from the academy go on loan. I think we sign Branthwaite, Tosin, Ait Nouri, Fofana, Olise. I’d like to think there’s a possibility of another midfielder or striker as well but that’s my realistic summer. Does this improve us as much as we need? What’s everyone else’s thought for how our summer goes?

27 May 2024 02:13:19
Squad for next year, transfers in CAPS.

Onana/ Vitek
Shaw/ Amass
Dalot/ HEINRICHS
Licha/ BRANTHWAITE/ DIOMANDE/ TOSIN/ Willy
Mainoo/ NEVES/ McTom/ Gore/ BARKLEY (if not already signed for Villa)
Bruno/ Mount
Garnacho/ Amad/ OLISE/ Anthony/ Rashford
Rasmus/ Greenwood/ GUIRASSY/ DAVID

Could easily agree with your Ait Nouri for Heinrichs. Fofana also. I went for more because I think we and more importantly INEOS understand we need a high churn this summer.

Any of current squad not named, assume they are sold on or contracts expired, basically surplus.

A couple of those signings improve our current ones, without needing a massive pay check and transfer fee to obtain.

I doubt I'll be right on all fronts, and welcome discussion!

27 May 2024 04:38:43
Jimbo. Stay off the drugs eh? Look after yourself.

27 May 2024 05:19:56
What don't you agree with DB? Interested to hear your views on squad for next year.
Much will obviously depend upon if EtH stays/ goes. I've assumed he stays and has an appreciation of what he currently has and has seen the highs (not many) and lows (all too often), of most of the current squad.
A new manager may still have the will pulled over their eyes by some of them!

27 May 2024 07:29:51
Outs:
Bayindir, Lindelof, Malacia, Casemiro, Eriksen, vdBeek, Sancho, Greenwood, Martial.

There are a few more who I’d like to go, but moving that amount on is going to prove tough. The above should bring in £100-£130m.

Ins:
Johnstone, Todibo, Hato, Amrabat, De Jong, Fofana, Olise, Haller.

Around £250m spent, so a net spend of about £120m-£150m, which doesn’t seem unrealistic.

27 May 2024 08:34:14
I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of a crop of players who have been mentally weak, leaked information, and haven’t worked hard enough.

Moving Rashford on will be expensive for anyone interested and therefore I think he will still be with us come September.

I would like to see Tosin and Olise signed. I’ve not seen Branthwaite have a good game yet. I don’t get the hype. But I must be in the wrong as he appears to be highly rated.

We definitely need a DM, that’s the most important position for me. Cas needs to go and we may get a half decent fee from Saudi.

Then the forward position. I like Hojlund and think he will eventually score 30 goals a season. I’d like to see a more experienced striker come in for a couple of years. Not Morata though.

We need a left back as well. Ait-Nouri is a good shout if available.

27 May 2024 09:34:33
I think Amos is ready for game time next season. Full preseason with the first team and some game time in friendlies will help.

We won be challenging for a couple of years but I think he will be part of a squad that in 3 to 5 years is ready to push.

I don't want us to bring someone in who hastens his development. Yes, he will make mistakes' youngsters do, but United fans are forgiving and supportive of youth as they develop.

27 May 2024 09:55:42
I’ve zero clue who will come in. More confident on the outs. If I was on football manager now I’d probably look at the following:
Tosin to replace Evans
Branthwaite to replace Varane
Olise to replace Sancho
Sesko to replace Martial
Kambawala promoted to replace Lindelof

I think Toby Collyer will be the next young player brought into the squad for next season, seemed pretty involved after the game Saturday. Maybe to replace Eriksen?

Casemiro obviously needs replacing and from what I read there are a number of strong defensive minded CM’s who could replace him so not sure who that would be.

Then Van De Beek, Greenwood, Hannibal, Pellistri all moving on.

Whatever happens though I’m quite excited for the window and looking forward to see how we conduct our business this year.

27 May 2024 10:06:41
Lots of movement and unfortunately the euros will mean the window will go quickly then slow down and go again after.
The majority of players we want to move on are not going so should help on that front.
Rashford is one that I think will stay if EtH remains but may go if the plan is to move more towards the possession based city model. Quite a few of the utd podcasters (sorry I know quite often just speaking for hits) have hinted that local rumours are he is off.
Excited to see how we go and for the new hierarchy they will be looking forward to actually being able to make some on the pitch changes.

27 May 2024 19:16:27
I think the outs will tell us if anything is really changing or its a slow slow change that ill test people's patients. we talk about it every summer transfer window and hardly anyone goes for whatever reasons. Very difficult to bring in new players if you have a bunch hanging around that we can't shift.

My only wish is we get proper CB and DCM and striker and LB. Branthwaite does nothing for me. Watched quite a few of their games and nothing stands out defensively or offensively. He is mid premiere league table material imo.

Rumours arsenal are looking at Rashford. They will pay a lot i reckon if its true. He will do really well there too. interesting decision for the club if true.

27 May 2024 21:14:58
As expected DB, literally nothing to add to the discussion, maybe you should lay off the drugs lad ?
To give you some justification of my selections. you have to bear in mind, we are in Europe now.
There seems a general consensus on JB/ OLISE/ TOSIN I think all three instantly improve us.
HEINRICHS has one year left, is quality and provides competition for Dalot and won't hinder anyone from youth coming through, which is something we need to ensure we don't do going forward.
DIOMANDE I just think complements Licha too much to ignore and we will need 5 CB's including Willy. This obviously assumes the rest of the CBs depart (varane, Maguire, Lindelof)
NEVES has been done, we just get him 100%
BARKLEY adds some experience and off the back of a great season at Luton, he could work. Kind of a wildcard to be honest, but CM is a difficult one because if we proceed with Mainoo/ Neves, you obviously need someone who is effectively a bit part role, hence McTom is still there and Gore promoted.
GUIRASSY is attainable and will provide experience and bolster the attack line instantly.
DAVID is also attainable and will again provide options in attacking positions, I feel we need 4 attackers again, hence I opted for 2 additions.

Ive kept the likes of Rashford and Anthony as I'm not sure if they will depart, or be given another season to prove their worth.

Again, happy to discuss.

26 May 2024 22:29:27
One thing really bugged me about the after match interviews yesterday. All the players and the manager saying this is not good enough for Utd etc, and we expect to be winning trophies etc. it's a narrative driven by the press.

Think we all need to calm down and honestly take a look at where we are right now in the pecking order. We are in full Restructure and rebuild mode, and this stuff takes a long time.

Let's not forget, we've not won the league since 2013. Pre Ferguson, who was an exceptional manager, we'd not won it for 26 years.

We are a club with a fine history and pedigree, and we draw lots of attention. But in the grand scheme of things, I think Erik isn't doing too bad, and frankly deserved a little more
Of our patience as the club finally gets its house in order (hopefully) .

27 May 2024 03:51:29
Well said Eric. This isn't, never has been, not shouldn't be, about the manager. They are one piece of the puzzle.
A puzzle, that up until this year, has been shaken around in the box by a bunch of petulant kids, hoping to take the lid off and reveal a finished article.
To all the fellow puzzlers, we know it takes time to complete a puzzle. Look at the bigger picture, zoom out, what do you see etc etc.
You can't just take piece after piece from the box and expect them to adjoin to one another, that's not how it works.

Anyway, the process continues, another trophy added. Let's hope the manager, and the deserved squad members stay together, and the jigsaw has a few more pieces added to it, hopefully in a timely manner.

Would really like SJR to come out and announce ETH stays, and here's the first of our summer signings, with Neves and JB holding united scarves above their heads! That will get the press talking about us again.

27 May 2024 11:02:42
The press will always talk about United. It is never going to be fair. To be at United you have to accept it and deal with it, not let it affect you.

Fergie and his teams understood this and used it as motivation. You will never stop it and cannot control it. So what you can do is use it to your advantage. To strengthen your bonds, to become that band of brothers, to give you a reason to try that little bit more, to fight for your mates.

This squad just needs more than anything a couple of players with this kind of attitude who won't shrink but will thrive under the glare and infect and carry the others along with them.

27 May 2024 12:28:56
That was kind of tongue in cheek Oakbark, I'm well aware they will talk about us, at every turn of the page.

26 May 2024 14:39:09
I'd love to utd to come come out and say ten hag is here next season and you can shove your anti utd agenda up where the sun don't shine. the gutter press have been appalling, they were desperate for a city win so ha ha ha ha ha.

26 May 2024 15:25:35
Welcome back Nick.

I bet you’re over the moon with how the season ended since you had us down for relegation earlier in the season ?

Fully agree, hopefully we will find out either way next week and we can put the whole saga to bed.

26 May 2024 17:19:41
Ten Hag in!

Disgusting how the main stream media were out for utd all season.

No mention yesterday of the 115, no mention of the questions that city need to answer.

They are happy to try to push EtH with pushy questions, they were talking about biggest ever upset if utd win, gave us no chance at all.

I will be disgusted in Ineos if we replace ten hag now.

26 May 2024 17:41:53
Shearer and Lineker 2 gobrubbishs.

26 May 2024 17:56:27
Yeah, a wonderful end to a horror season. Start was so bad I just couldn't see utd winning any match but they got a few good wins. feels so much like 1990, the results similar too, hope the next 27 years are similar too. But I'm over moon with yesterday, just can't stop smiling ?.

26 May 2024 19:54:01
Did like the Cheats follow A556 Jnc 115 diversion sign.

26 May 2024 21:40:34
I would be a strong stay for eth but I don't buy into any media agenda. It has been awful and yes there are injury and other reasons but I think pundits were well within their right to be harsh with us. The midfield that played yesterday could have played most of the season. I'm not sure myself about many of eth decisions and certainly would be critical of his signings but I still think its best he is given a shot next year and not use anything as an excuse. United shouldn't be looking for excuses, we never did in the past.

25 May 2024 14:29:20
Not ten hag's biggest fan but I think he deserves his final season.

26 May 2024 21:04:56
Wait a season and we could have Pep ?.

26 May 2024 12:15:22
We should remember that United has been one of the most hated football teams. That was the price of two decades of success. So, it's not surprising that our failures and decline have been greeted with glee. Everyone, particularly the press love to pile it on. Thus being at MUFC, as a manager or player, makes you someone with a target on your back. You have to be extremely resolute to withstand the constant glare, the derision, the speculation etc.

Having withstood 2 years of this, during which we have won 2 trophies more than Arsenal, and 1 more than Liverpool, and having inherited a complete mess, having dealt with an injury hit season, particularly in central defense, I think the board would be making a mistake to get rid of ETH. (Look how Liverpool and Arsenal fared losing just one key defender, then Van Dijk and Saliba got injured) . So if they do, it will be because he's not seen as the man to build upon his own achievements of building the foundation for the future. As far as I'm concerned his sternness was just what was needed at the time.

Thank you ETH.

26 May 2024 13:12:53
I do thank him for bringing us two cups and think he is a decent guy.

The problem is that whilst Arsenal and Liverpool did have key injuries too they didn't suffer so many awful losses as we have this season. Nor did their players seem to give up or make such basic errors like Utds did this season.

I know having so many players out especially in defence makes it really difficult for a manager but playing Casemeiro in Central defence when he patently was not up to it makes me question ETH. Not playing Diallo and persevering with Anthony who is technically gifted but more likely to succeed in Italy or Spain again gives me doubts about ETH.

Watching Sancho play so well for Dortmund but being so poor for us and falling out with the coach brings more doubts.

Not changing things in matched when things were so obviously not right adds more question marks

These are all points (and there are many more that) many of us have made over the season. One win against a tired off key City does not answer those points and fill me with justifiable genuine optimism for the coming season.

My heart wants ETH to do really well and prove all the doubters including myself wrong. My head is full of doubts. Complicating this is the fact that there are few genuine elite level managers available. I would love Mckenna back at Old Trafford because his work with the youth team was great and he gets the club and fans but he is surely better off going to a slightly lesser mid table team and getting more experience which will stand him in good stead long term. He is young enough to get the job in the future.

Poch is known to be a good man manager but is he good enough to build this team and lead us back to the very top. Very difficult to say that he is based on past coaching jobs he has had. He has had no real trophy winning success. (I don't count the french league as being of value) .

Are we as fans going to be realistic and realise that regardless of whoever has the job it is going to take a few years to build a squad capable of challenging for the league. Are we and are Ineos patient enough to allow the manager to make mistakes and suffer taking a few steps back and not finish in the top four of another season if the rebuild takes a while. If we chose another manager then we should surely give them at least two seasons to rebuild. If that's is the case with a new manager why should ETH also not have another two years to do the same? After all they would be starting from the same base line.

26 May 2024 15:43:22
Salford7,

Sancho has a known attitude problem. He often turned up to training late at Utd and when he was previously at Dortmund.

ED001, did a very good write up about Sancho.

EtH had to play Casemiro in defence. There wasn't an alternative due to the injuries Utd had. Of course he could have played McTominay defensively he is suspect and lacks discipline. His hands were tied.

EtH has appeared abit more last over the last few games and his in game substitutions have made sense. A season with so many injured players is difficult for any manager. The real issues is a lack of quality and a poor attitude amongst certain players.

This season has shown how key Martinez is to Utds success. Him and Bruno both are.

26 May 2024 16:04:15
When did Sancho play well for Dortmund? In one game you watched? He certainly hasn’t played well consistently for them.

26 May 2024 17:24:50
He has a better two year start than arteta. He has a history of building teams that win. He has won trophies in both seasons inspite of the adversity.

Ineos want to bring in a puppet to follow instructions. But what top level epl team has won with that model?

Show patience and we will win with the guy. Your favourite player might not play, but we will win. And that is what it is all about.

26 May 2024 10:22:28
I posted straight after the match aboutq keeping ETH. However the decision may have already been made to sack him, which begs the question, who next?

I would be happy for ETH to stay but if they do sack him, the only two I would entertain are Poch and McKenna.

Poch knows the EPL, he navigated the Chelsea madness and qualified for Europe, he's known as an excellent man manager. McKenna may or may not turn out to be the real deal, but he has consecutive promotions with Ipswich, where he has improved a number of players, he knows the club, and is well respected. I think either would make a good fist of it.

The worry is that we go for Southgate, or Potter, or even Tuchel, who seems to be a short term fix wherever he goes, I get the impression he could start an argument in an empty room.

Looking at the poll on here, it seems most agree with me, let's hope Jim is listening.

26 May 2024 11:26:26
I wouldn't go near either of them.

Poch has no proven record of success and only did well at PSG where they are expected to win everything and even then he failed. He also has a record of falling out with the board over direction and style of play.

I also think McKenna might be the hot prospect at the minute, but so was Graham Potter, and he was massively found out at Chelsea. He might become one to consider, but jumping from Ipswich to Manchester United is like racing a go-kart to Formula 1.

I'm not saying this because my preference is ETH, but I don't think there is anyone available currently I would take that I see being an improvement.

26 May 2024 11:40:36
ETH was fully disrespected by the media after winning the cup yesterday. The questions he faced in the press room were appalling, and Linekar and Shearer are facing a lot of backlash over their questioning and cutting ETH off when he rightly put them in their place.

You’d hope that a Manchester United supporters forum might be able to go 24 hours without yet another thread with the same line of questioning.

26 May 2024 11:51:23
Fair points Wazza, and as I said, I would keep ETH, but the reports keep coming.

26 May 2024 12:37:50
They do AJH. Disrespectful, offensive and repugnant are the media. They have bullied him recently, quick to forget what their colleagues did to Caroline Flack.

I applaud ETH for swinging back, good on him. Regardless of whether or not he’s our manager next season, I hope he goes on to have a fantastic career and prove every one of them wrong.

Now back to celebrating the cup win, and to enjoy the Monaco GP and playoff final ?.

26 May 2024 13:29:07
Yeah, apparently, we are going out for lunch, so there goes my afternoon.

27 May 2024 04:12:00
Keep EtH, McKenna in a few years if he continues his development and eth gets bored of continued success ?.

26 May 2024 08:15:45
Waiting for the view of Ken the oracle on yesterdays tactics and performance. Personally I saw a group of players definitely not lost by ETH. Still sack him given that he apparently has known for weeks that he's a dead man walking? Not for me. I think ETH showed his true colours and deserves a chance going forward. In fact I'd say we would be foolish to lose him to yet another rinse and repeat excercise. That has been my view consistently and not only in the euphiria of the cup win.

26 May 2024 08:33:58
Fizz, there are reasons for him to get the sack, and reasons not to.

Tomorrow he showed he can play a XI, that can beat Pep in a final.
Something we have never done as a team even under sir alex.

He has actually earned another season in my eyes,
2 major reasons:

That was a performance where it never looked like we were going to lose.
He would have stability now. We've always sacked manager and restarted again. This time maybe we stick by a man and see what happens. Weve done it with jose, ole, moyes, lvg, where they have a bad season and next year we get a new coach. Perhaps it is time we as a club ride the tide and see what happens next year.

{Ed025's Note - im not so sure backpass, yes it was a good performance yesterday against what looked to me a tired city side...but im taking nothing away from UTD who thoroughly deserved the win, but one swallow does not make a summer mate and the rest of the season was appalling so sticking with ETH would be a massive gamble imo..

26 May 2024 09:11:06
Match posts fizz. Never once do I fall to pursue any coach or the team when they win. Done within 20 mind of the game. Great win great performance. Why would you think I would think anything other than that.

26 May 2024 09:17:31
I know the recency bias kicks in.
And I am honestly 51:49 split on keeping him and letting him go.

But I'm not too confident about who comes next and if there is someone I could really back.

I do not like Tuchel, Poch would not be a huge upgrade and Mckenna is untested.

Of course we have to see what the board decides, but I could take another season of eth.

But I truly hope the medical department and injuries is given a second look.

26 May 2024 09:37:31
ETh needs to be kept and backed in the summer.

Allow him to bring in Todibo/ Bremer, Branthwaite, De Jong, O’Riley (nobody has mentioned him but for me he’d be a fantastic signing from Celtic), Olise, a cheap backup striker (Morata? ) and back-ups at keeper and left-back.

Clear out Lindelof, Malacia, Casemiro, Eriksen, Antony etc.

Hopefully no commentator’s curse here, but EtH cannot possibly be as unfortunate with injuries next season. Let him build - none of the other options to replace him are particularly exciting, either.

26 May 2024 10:04:18
ETH has won 2 out of the 5 major trophies since SAF left in the same number of years. Granted this was a terrible PL campaign, but despite this he still has the backing of the large majority of fans.

Its clear they will wait for him to return from his holiday so the buzz has settled.

If Ineos want to start their era off by ignoring the fans, it doesn't bode well.

26 May 2024 09:13:44
Ed025,

You make a good point. I'm a fan of EtH. I'd like him to have a other season, given that the current available options aren't that appealing. McKenna needs at least a season in the EPL under his belt.

{Ed025's Note - i think your right about there not being much out there MH..

26 May 2024 00:55:18
Congrats, Arsenal fan, I have enjoyed your struggles over the last few years, as I'm sure you have enjoyed ours. No players or coaches get to the top level without being talented, as fans we have favourives and players we dislike. You have some extremely talented players, espeacialy for me Matinez. Good luck, Maybe give him 1 more year. Reapect.

26 May 2024 06:09:08
Davy, at this moment everytime City don't win a trophy I am happy.

I wanted Arsenal to win the league this year, but your team could not do it. That aston villa loss cost u the title.

I just hope pep goes trophyless next year.

26 May 2024 00:15:31
Football has changed and for the most part the teams who control possession the most win the most. Most teams in the top leagues in Europe have players who have great technical skills so it stands to reason that the less chance they have to exercise that skill by virtue of less possession then the less likely they are to score.

Today we deserved the win but it has to be said that City were way off their usual standard and had 75% possession but failed to make it count until right at the end of the match. When Fergies teams were in their pomp they also controlled matches and it's something that ETH or the new manager will have to address by buying better players to have a better squad. Doing well at Wembley in a one off game was wonderful but the acid test will be next season.

26 May 2024 07:00:47
Stats are funny.

City had more possession, but it didn’t really feel like it. We controlled them without the ball. Mainoo said in his post match interview that we’d worked on controlling the middle of the pitch, forcing them out wide because of Foden, Rodri and De Bruyne.

Like with the ‘touches in opposition box’ stat. They beat us on that too. But how many of those touches were from Doku tippy tapping the ball? It’s misleading.

I think Doku changed the game for them and he looked their only threat, certainly Foden wasn’t his brilliant self, but let’s take every ounce of credit because all I can find online is that we “stunned” and “shocked” City, and “was that ETH’s farewell”. Nothing about how we controlled them really well and stopped them from playing due to good training leading up to the day, and good tactics on it. Praise where it’s due.

{Ed025's Note - i thought it was a good performance Wassa, but it does beggar the question...where have these players been all season mate?..

26 May 2024 07:10:00
25 that’s a whole different argument and one I fully agree with.

However, we can understate the importance of Martinez to the side and how the manager wants to play. He handled Haaland brilliantly yesterday (I thought Haaland eventually gave up), and he played a brilliant pass which Rashford should’ve taken on and scored.

As you know, some players raise the performance of those around them. He is certainly in that bracket.

{Ed025's Note - you do have some very good players Wassa and Martinez is certainly one of them, its the team ethic that lets you down for me mate and as much as some players can lift you some of them will also bring you down..

26 May 2024 07:39:20
Fully agree Ed. We’ve been through the same cycle several times now, where certain players throw the towel in during the manager’s 2nd year; not just ten Hag.

Our recruitment has been poor, we need to be targeting mentally strong players who are hungry. The problem today is that players get too much too young, and in the case of some of our squad, they know they just need to outlast the manager for a fresh start and a new contract.

I hope things begin to change with the new structure being built.

26 May 2024 07:55:33
It's funny wazza, but growing up watching football there wasn't the stats that we have now. It would be interesting to see statistics for previous teams of the 80's and 90's against today. I watch some games now and when I get the stats afterwards it seems unbelievable at times.

26 May 2024 08:12:29
Indeed Banjoe. We would’ve been behind on all of these stats in the ‘99 final against Bayern. Except the 1 stat that matters.

26 May 2024 08:37:28
Completely agree with your post on this Wazza.

26 May 2024 10:39:20
thought the defense played well today with awb and dalot standing up to silva, doku foden and de bruyne: not going to ground and puuting them out wide - key moments really - city had loads of possession 2nd half but goal was a bit soft and although nervy because they have the quality to hurt any team, they weren't allowed to. Heleva day and match
hope everyone got home safely and the hangovers ain't so bad today. enjoy the circus that is transfer window guys! have a great summer.

25 May 2024 23:19:29
Bruno was magnificent today. He's been crisiticed many times for his performances as captain but that today was a United captain from minute 1 to minute 90. His workrate and energy was infectious. Shout out to amrabat too, been excellent the last month, probably too late to convince us to keep him but shows that when fit and in his favoured position he has a lot to offer. So happy with that today!

26 May 2024 06:11:19
Bruno as a CF is working very well imo.
Even if he loses shape or presses high, it doesn't matter.
And time and again he just sprints back into midfield and nicks the ball and we counter.

I wish eth played bruno as CF early days, we always had players who could play behind the striker.

26 May 2024 07:11:12
Spot on Tim. He was, and is, superb.

If only we’d had a better candidate for the captaincy, perhaps people wouldn’t be as harsh on him.

26 May 2024 07:13:30
Bruno as CF only works in a counter attacking team, which will work only against the better teams.

 


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