Manchester United Banter Archive May 20 2018

20 May 2018 21:57:13
The club is at yet another cross roads. There are some huge decisions to make this summer and Woodward needs to get it very right.

Two items today, firstly toxic fans abusing our manager to the point he has to close his social media account. It is tough enough dealing with the opposition but our own, seriously? It seems too many are driven by the want it now, an overblown sense of false entitlement pervaded in the wider media world. enraged by a feeling that we should we winning playing Busby style football regardless of circumstances. You don't just see it in football. Abusing any person on that level, let alone our own manager is repugnant and disgusting. Perhaps the manager will walk away, giving some what they think is the answer, instead it can all unravel.

Secondly there are noises of dressing room discontent starting to filter out and this is where a decision needs to be made. We either support the manager or the players. Under SAF the players went, now in our overtly toxic world who knows which way the board will go. Maybe Beast will get what he wants and chaos begins. It needs a strong manager right now not a theoretical fancy coach. It's a big moment, for me five positions need resolving, 2FB, CB, CM, RW/ Attacker. We need churn, players bought, move on the ones with poor will to win, yes the ones going will be unhappy. The next few weeks will decide the next few years. We are here again, in this position and it's Woodward who is accountable. He must get it right.

20 May 2018 22:20:09
Thats thw attitude of some of thw fans today. They have no patience with the managers.

Managers train you but players are the ones that are on the pitch.

Good luck to those that want rid of Mourinho once he has gone you will realise what you will miss.

As some of these players have huge attitude issues.

Manchester United fans use to be known as very sensible and knowledgeable but since we are seeing the real toxics who are still living in the past and delving on past success.

People need to wake up this is just a sport. Although i love United two bits but you shouldn't go to such extent that you will send death threats or make your manager turn his social media off.

This is totally out of order and i am very sad to be called a United fan today because of what has happened.

Absolute disgraceful! .

20 May 2018 22:39:50
Good post Redman. Feels like a real watershed moment. My fear is the manager walks/ sacked and we get a new manager and in 2 years we are in the same situation. However, this time we are playing good football but not winning anything. Ed002 was right the fanbase is toxic and what’s to say these twitter idiots and plastic fans won’t turn on a Poch/ jardim because we are not winning? There is clearly a player attitude/ mindset issue at the club and if they survive and the Jose goes who is to say they won’t do it again? There are a lot of players there who do not have what it takes to play for united. I’m not Jose in but I would prefer to see him strengthen the team and finish his contract. I understand people’s view that he will cause more damage but realistically I cannot see many stand out candidates. For whatever Jose says or acts, he is the the Man Utd manager and he retains my backing until the day he walks out the club. It is hard at times on some days I want him out. But the fans turning on him after the press rip apart his character is not acceptable. We look after our own at united and for whatever digging out of players he does he is still the manager. The press is in full force right now as we lost the final so it is all feeling a bit raw and blown out of proportion imo.

20 May 2018 22:53:02
Over dramatic redman many fans simply want us to be successful but enjoy watching us trying aswell, playing good entertaining football isn't a pipedream just a different tactical way of good footballers playing .
You want 2 fullbacks a CB, a cm and a right side attacker, I don't disagree but what you don't mention is under Jose we have spent a lot of money on two CBS, and two for cm already . It seems to go over people's head the two CBS have been unable to dislodge what we already had, many of us may think Bailly and lindelehoff are better than what we had but come a big game Jose didn't .

20 May 2018 23:20:37
Too many of these players lack. the mentality yet here the still are. They really need to be gone this summer.

21 May 2018 00:09:26
Agreed Slate.

I am certainly not a toxic and my social media activities begin and end on this site. I love and support the club and always will, but what is totally unacceptable is the regularity with which we have entered a game and simply not turned up and played football. I mean literally not fulfilling the basics of the game at this level. Every time we did something positive it was invariably cancelled out the next game.

I am not a fan of his by any stretch, but I'm not going to come out and say "sack Jose" because I do not know of a perfect alternative. There are promising, forward-thinking coaches out there but the element of risk with them is v high; can we go on the manager merry go round again? I just don't know.

What I do know I want is the team playing to win and score goals, applying themselves every game, for BOTH halves of a bloody game. So on that token this season has been abysmal, and every fan has a right to criticise and moan all they want.

21 May 2018 05:29:56
Nothing like an over reaction Redman, Utd were here long before José and will be here long after José. Hasn't the chaos already started, our manager has signed numerous players for his style of football and they are simply not performing, whose fault is that? José has bought players to cover the positions that you mention, 2 of them can't displace Smalling the most criticised player at the club and presumably that's because José doesn't think they deserve to be playing. His stellar signing wanders around the pitch contributing every 5 or 6 games, the other games just pass him by.
Our current manager consistently throws players under the bus yet can't accept any criticism himself, after Sat he said he was happy with the game, well how many other Utd supporters were happy with the performance, were you?
Obviously if we had won on Sat the José serial winner posts would have appeared, justifying the boring football we have endured for the majority of the season. How many games have you actually enjoyed watching this season?
I don't buy into all this play football the Utd way, every manager has their own preferences for tactics, but what I want to see is a team that actually looks like it's trying it's hardest for 90mins and that is down to both the manager and the players. José has spent millions yet we look a worse team ending the season than we were starting the season, the players look lost with no obvious plan to the way we play. How many players, in particular Jose's signings do you think have played to their full potential, I can't think of more than a couple, isn't that the manager's responsibility?
In more than 40 years supporting Utd have you witnessed such an abject performance in a cup final, in 99 we had a magic few minutes but we were outplayed by a very good Bayern team, how well did Chelsea play Sat, in 76 we did attack Southampton not just go backwards, sideways. Most people I have spoken to have said Sat was the most boring final they can remember but José was happy with the performance.
From the start you criticised Moyes, well maybe some feel the same way about José, just because you think he's the answer doesn't necessarily mean that it's right.
Finally, I totally agree with you over the personal abuse, nobody should be subjected to the vile postings that have been made.

21 May 2018 12:17:31
You can't compare Moyes and Jose. Moyes had never managed a big club. Moyes had never beaten a top 4 club. Moyes looked out of his depth from day one. Moyes had no plan.

Ok so people don't like Jose's plan. Fair enough. We've all been frustrated this season.

Cases can be made either way on Jose. I just think if he can ship out the failures and get in the players he wants then its another stride forward. If he can clear out those who aren't good enough to be at the club and instill that winning mentality, which we have lost, then that leaves us in a better position for the next guy. And hopefully he gets more suppport.

21 May 2018 12:32:00
I cannot condone the behaviour of fans towards Mourinho, I want him gone, but death threats and abuse is childish and crude. Saying that, if these 'fans' are to be labelled toxic, then Mourinho should be too. His attitude is terrible and he's quick to point fingers and blame, but never looks at his own issues, it's always someone else's fault. Lose the final, it's because Chelsea parked the bus and because Lukaku couldn't play. It's becoming as tedious as his brand of football. I think there's a trickle down effect at clubs. You have sour management, it creeps into the players, into the fans, into everything the club represents. It pains me to admit that since Klopp joined Liverpool, their fans appear less bitter, more humble, as do the club and it's surroundings. That's what we need to be aiming for, under Fergie we had a feeling that there was fun to be had, there was a goodnatured spirit from management to the players to the fans and a confidence and trust throughout the club. Toxicity, whether LVG or Mourinho, breeds toxicity. Humility breeds humility. Confidence breeds confidence.

21 May 2018 12:40:03
Keanoooh

Again and again I have to explain Moyes CV did not merit the United job but Jose’s CV is on another level. I said before Moyes was appointed it would be a disaster and it was.

One thing to ponder, everywhere Jose has been he has won big very quickly, yet is struggling to replicate this at United. Easy to say he is past it but I suspect it is actually more an indication that it is a far bigger mess than he has encountered before.

21 May 2018 13:02:42
Yes Red Man the winning mentality had gone. Too many players who are either coasting on reputation, or slacked off because they're at United and have made it or just don't have the mentality.

21 May 2018 13:29:44
Good post, Ludwig. Mourinho has us competing but you are right about the style and his lack of character, with the blaming and lack of humility.

21 May 2018 16:07:37
Mort and Redman - where did I say Moyes was the answer, just because José is your choice doesn't necessarily make it right.
Too may players coasting, not got the right mental attitude, what about Jose's signings because they are comparatively bigger failings than all the Utd players that weren't good enough according to some.
Where is Pogba's mental attitude, what about Miki, sold, what about Bailly and Lindelof can't even make the team over the acclaimed useless Smalling. These are all players that José signed, are they the wrong players or are we picking the wrong team, playing the wrong tactics. Whatever it is Jose's record on signings for us is not good.

21 May 2018 20:14:18
Keanoooh

Have to correct you again, Jose is not my choice as you put it. I wanted Jose after SAF but we went for the useless one, I wanted Klopp to replace Moyes but when we went for lvg I said it must be with Pep in mind to follow him. When we dithered without a plan Pep went to City and I said the only option was Mourinho but to keep an eye on Poch.

I haven’t given up on Bailly, rumour is he blotted his copybook by crying off a game last minute claiming he was ill and turned up bright and early for training next day, which rightly didn’t please the manager.

I haven’t given up on Pogba or Lindelof even if you have but some have been there long enough to judge and it’s time tough decisions are made.

20 May 2018 18:46:29
Once the dust settles and the disappointment subsides we can reflect on the game in a more rational manner.

The game panned out more or less as I expected. A tense, cagey, unexciting spectacle which was always destined to be won by the odd goal or a penalty shoot out.

In terms of our defensive play I thought we handled them pretty well. I was surprised when they played an extra midfielder which effectively meant we only had Hazard to deal with. De Gea was a spectator for most of the game and they carried very little threat. Such games are often decided by the big players or mistakes and whilst Jones was culpable of some pretty awful defending I'd also have to question the shape of the team that allowed their only attacking treat to the receive the ball on the counter with acres of space to run into. Herrera's positioning must be questioned especially as he was tasked with the job of man marking Hazard or certainly being close to him in the transitions in order to stop the counter attack. Ultimately Hazard produced the games one moment of quality, leaving Jones for dead and expertly converting the penalty.

It's easy to label Jones as the fall guy but after returning from a long injury he didn't quite look match fit in either body or mind. The way Hazard effortlessly accelerated past him was embarrassing and he should never have been afforded so much space to run into. I think Jones is a decent defender but he's still prone to individual mistakes and I've never been convinced that the Jones/ Smalling axis is our best defensive partnership.

Since Sanchez arrived we have lacked penetration and he has played far too deep. He has often congested the midfield occupying Pogba's space and without runners in front of him he's been relatively anonymous. Yesterday was no exception.

What we desperately lack is width, somebody to make the pitch bigger, somebody that can dribble the ball with pace, commit and beat defenders and supply quality crosses into the box for Lukaku. To be honest Martial provides this threat and was our brightest attacking outlet when he came on but he's been marginalised, maligned and cast aside by a manager that seemingly has little patience for young players still learning the game and searching for consistency.

I've read press speculation linking us with a move for William but I think this would be a mistake. He's plays a very similar role to Sanchez, he likes to play inside, often dropping deep to receive the ball, this would congest the midfield even further and complicate Pogba's role in the team even more.

I'm not sure which direction Mourinho is taking us. I don't see an evolution in our style of play and whilst I think his signings have been good in terms of quality there appears to be no forward thinking about how they all fit together.

In hindsight I think Sanchez may turn out to be a poor acquisition, especially if it's at the expense of Martial. What we really needed is a right winger to complete our attack. That's been the problem position all season. If we'd have looked to recruit a really top class right winger, one capable of scoring goals and assisting Lukaku then that would have relieved the burden on the likes of Martial and Rashford, allowed them time to develop meaning their off days would less important as others take up the slack.

I expect more of the same next season. The only way we can judge Mourinho is by his results. We can be encouraged by a better league campaign but finishing 20 points behind City whilst playing some pretty dire stuff certainly isn't enough for the swelling anti Jose brigade to be placated. The success of our season ultimately came down to one game and the means didn't justify the ends. Jose failed to deliver and I think our season can be best described in these three words "must do better".

Wishing you all a great summer, hopefully England can provide us with some much need entertainment (although I won't hold my breath) and we'll see what the summer transfer window and next season brings. All the best.

21 May 2018 06:12:26
DLIB - I agree, as a team we look lost with no obvious plan to our game, we have so much possession but it's all in safe positions.
For the goal I thought Jones's starting position was poor and once he was squared up it was no contest, Hazard was through.
I think your judgement on Jose's signings is spot on, how many of them can be classed as a success.
With José at the helm I think we can sum up next season now, 'more of the same'. Will it be enough to see him as our manager by the end of the season, only time will tell.

20 May 2018 15:53:44
Interesting debate ab it the United way with a reference to the ‘99 team, but the United way can be traced back to the 50’s. In essence it is a focus on developing our own and entertaining the fans, you score 3, we'll score 4, and it’s all about the team. It is not a style of football it a state of mind. The selection of an odd game here or there to decry it is mischievous. Think about the 7-1 Roma game, the 2 thrashings of Arsenal, the 8-1 away at Forest, the away game at Arsenal in the ECL semi final, the semi against Juventus, I could go on. For every bad game I’ll name you 4 good ones.

You either respect it or you don’t. What we are seeing now is boring safety first football, the public haranguing of very young players, no clear style, and for me, a Manager whose heart isn’t really in it. Jose was never right for United and nothing I have seen since his arrival has suggested otherwise. Some people say results matter above everything, not for me, never have and never will. And yes, I was going week in, week out long before SAF took over.

Ed02 indicated that all was not well and that this was far from a marriage made in heaven. As I have said previously, the longer this goes on the more damage will be done. Jose does not seem a happy bunny, I don’t think he will see out next season.

20 May 2018 16:13:02
The best advice I can give you is to read what rival fans are saying, ignore the idiots, the majority will tell you the truth:

1 - We are not feared anymore
2 - We have wasted hundreds of millions
3 - We are more boring to watch than anybody can remember - consistently
4 - Our supposed World Class players look anything but
5 - Our respected heritage of advancing young potential has died a death
6 - Our brand is being damaged by this odious football

When our own fans try and call a spade a spade they are called toxic, just until a critical mass is reached and then they are preaching to the supposed converted.

Ultimately SAF didn't mop up in Europe like he maybe could have, but he brought entertainment and we all felt confident going into every game we played. We knew it would be fun to watch and there would be something positive to take from a game more often than not. Only one team can win the CL and there are almost 10 teams hard to separate at the minute, similar during SAF's time, maybe a few less, so it's hardly a massive criticism if you don't win it. Roma, Liverpool, Madrid all finished 3rd (or worse) in their leagues this year yet made the Semi-Final of the best cup in the world!

The board will be happy though as we still managed to get more than City in broadcasting rights - doubt that will last as people will be tuning out if this continues. Sponsors will offer less, good players won't want to come (or money will be their primary motivator which spells trouble) . Yes there is always room for improvement, SAF wasn't perfect, but this different is not the way forward, it's crippling everything we built up over a generation.

Too many of our fans are leaving the game feeling dejected too often - win/ lose/ draw. The answer is painfully simple to me and any other fan that cares about enjoying the game, it's only difficult for people financially connected, as change brings uncertainty. The fans that are happy for this to continue are over-complicating everything and looking for signs where they don't exist.

It's getting to the point where rival fans are almost missing Man Utd, for all their mock hatred (real in some cases I suppose), they respected us and enjoyed the games when we were on. Kind of like I will happily watch City or Liverpool at the minute as I know it will likely be a good game, with good football. A fun killing Man Utd is bad for football as a whole, it's like watching a King being humiliated at the minute every time you tune in, even if you don't like the King, the're something fundamentally wrong about seeing a legend crumble before your eyes.

20 May 2018 16:38:01
(Meant for Shaw below sorry AJH) .

20 May 2018 17:17:12
Just ask one question. Is Woodward or the owners happy? If not then you'll get your away and that's 3 sacked in 5 years. If they are then Jose gets next season.

20 May 2018 13:52:30
How many times do people say we want to see a team that plays the United way? Well, let's analyze this.

Since the 1998/ 9 treble winning year when we scraped by Bayern Munich having created nothing for 90 minutes, what has playing the United way accomplished outside domestic tournaments? One more champions league cup for which we needed a John Terry slip to win? Hardly emphatic. Since then playing the United way has been shown to be no match for playing the Barcelona way. In fact, as far as Europe is concerned, playing the United way has been largely unsuccessful when compared to playing, say, the Liverpool way.

In the league, we had one year 1999/ 2000 when we scored 97 goals, but other than that the most we have scored is 87 when we were 3rd. We actually won the title in 2008/ 9 scoring 68 goals, the same as we did this year. Half a dozen more goals at opportune times this year and we could have been 10 points better off and still have been a distant second to City, who scored 105 goals and achieved 100 points, both records, not playing the United way.

When supporters say they want to see us playing the United way I have to say why? The United way is passé and has shown itself to be second best on the international stage, geared mainly to slog it out through the bleak winter months of the English premier league. It's a fantasy. What we need is something else, a new United way.

20 May 2018 14:09:51
Go and watch Ronaldo Rooney scholes Beckham etc etc it was a great watch .

20 May 2018 14:25:11
Shaw utd way means attacking football and giving youngsters a chance, it isn't the fergie way or the Busby way. Tactics differ from manager to manager but the intent to score goals and actually try and win matches should remain the same, that for me is the utd way, also what the way outside cl achieved is 7 premier league titles, is that now supposed to be nothing now?

20 May 2018 14:26:58
Couldn't care less about the "United Way" or the "Sir Alex Years" anymore. I think the majority of us want to look forward to watching the game, thinking we'll play a slither of attacking football at the least.

Not just watch it because it's on, then be bored senseless after.

20 May 2018 14:33:54
We were fantastic in that CL campaign up to the final, we went into the final without 2 of our most influential players and 3 others out of position. Plus its a final, winner takes all, nerves, occassion etc etc.

We were again terrific first haLf in Moscow, missed chances then lampalrd scored a comeday goal on the stroke of half time.

The United way is still an entertaining way to play, high intensity play with wingers - nice to watch and we have had great success since Busby with it.

It could still be great if we had the players and the same mindest we had under Fergie, Busby . even that one relegation season and under Docherty we played some wonderful football.

I admit Liverpool play great stuff, but I remember the passing back from Neal, to hughes to clemence etc etc, slow slow build up then the long ball up to Toshack knock down to Keegan etc etc.

20 May 2018 14:56:57
Sepp Blogger -and there we have our problem. tactics, skilful players, big name players, youngsters. makes no difference if the manager is a defence minded coach, the chances of playing attractive, attacking football are very small. and a defence minded coach is very much what we have - he has had a few high scoring seasons in his career, but few and far between.

All the indications are he isn't going to change anytime soon.

20 May 2018 15:03:48
I think it was Evra who said sir alex told him to get the crowd at old Trafford going by getting forward in the early minutes by overlapping the winger and getting a ball into the box. The United way is exciting wingers, high intensity and attacking football. I miss those days.

20 May 2018 15:04:06
That CL was epic, the final we wasn’t so great but won it spectacularly, all the way along we was great to watch in that tournament.

20 May 2018 15:17:40
We can all cherry pick situations to try and make a point. But watching this Man Utd and that Man Utd is a totally different experience.

The old Man Utd had some sort of consideration to the fans desire and giving value for money - the fans had a voice, the club cared about winning, but winning in style.

This Man Utd is 100% focused on finances, performance is irrelevant so long as the financial targets are accomplished (top 4 by hook or by crook) . Such is the world unfortunately, but anybody saying that the garbage Jose is serving up is what Utd are known for around the world is in total denial. This is not what hundreds of millions of people fell in love with.

Furthermore anybody trying to play-down the entertainment value of Utd under SAF for the vast majority of his career with us, needs to take a weekend off and watch a few season compilation DVD's and check themselves! The highlights over the past 5 years wouldn't even make it in the bloopers section, they literally wouldn't waste the film!

20 May 2018 15:27:38
the united way isn't a formation or a tactic.

The united way in a word is to "believe"

Believe in youth, believe you can win at all times against anyone even if you are the under dogs, believe you can score a 95th minute equaliser or winner, believe your striker will control the ball so you make a run, believe you can thread a ball between 2 players so you don't pass it 5 yards sideways,

SAF didn't use the same tactics or formation every game for 26 years. SAF could be as pragmatic as anyone when it was needed.

But when SAF was pragmatic it was only normally in the big games and not against West ham in a dead rubber game and his pragmatism wasnt just how do I stop the opposition it was how do I stop them and exploit their weaknesses.

SAF didn't always get it right no one does but the intent was always there it was always positive.

He wouldn't be bashing rashford in public saying all the things he does wrong, he would be positive saying the things he does well but there are areas he can work on to be great even if SAF didn't believe it he would big players up make them believe that they can, not make them believe they can't by throwing them under the bus.

20 May 2018 15:36:44
We have certainly had some entertaining sides, no question, and this one is not. We had the most money and the best premier league manager. Before that we also had a quarter of a century in the wilderness playing the United way. But along the way the league changed from being predominantly British, and then northern European, to being truly international in its make up regarding players and ownership. The structural advantage United had has now disappeared. Tactics have changed too. So my question remains, what does the United way mean in terms of football today? Is it playing like City or perhaps Liverpool who scored 16 more goals than us but finished behind us in the league while making it to the Champions League final?

It's the age old debate. Is winning or style more important? With the players at our disposal and the ones we have been able to acquire 3 successive managers have been have felt constrained by the conundrum of either sacrificing attack to protect a less than convincing defence, or sacrificing a potential champions league spot by committing too far forward with players who are not Ronaldo, Rooney and Beckham and are not going to capitalize to the same extent on their opportunities.

{Ed001's Note - you have not had managers who have felt constrained. You have had 3 successive managers who have played the same way throughout their careers. Nothing to do with the players at their disposal, they played the same way everywhere they went.}

20 May 2018 16:18:26
Said in a post the other day I think Ed, baffling why a club with out history and style, ethos etc have then gone and appointed 3 successive mangers as far away from our ethos you can get.

{Ed001's Note - it is an odd set of choices.}

20 May 2018 17:15:39
Because Woodward is a finance expert not a football expert. Same as he chases signing who can sell merchandise but don't fit what's needed.

20 May 2018 18:50:56
Schnauzer, very good post, I agree with everything you say.

20 May 2018 09:21:58
Obviously everyones dissapointed with yesterday, but we've had a good record in cup finals in recent years and were bound to lose one eventually. I guess if you don't lose one, when you win it doesn't make it as special.

Chelsea beat us at our own game, nick a goal then defend like your lives depend on it.

I am really glad the season has ended for us now as it looked like jose was creating unnecessary problems with players like bailly, rashford, martial and lukaku. Good time for the players to get away from the manager and enjoy their holidays/ world cup in a different surrounding.

20 May 2018 09:54:09
I can't speak for everyone, but it was the manner of the defeat that disappoints me. I can appreciate losing to a better team, or even losing to an unlucky moment if you are the better team, but it's the poor football I can't stomach. The lack of urgency to correct the obvious failings in our play.

Even had we won yesterday playing the way we did, it still wouldn't have meant that much to me personally - when we beat Southampton last year I felt we had cheated them and got little joy from the success. It's like we are stabbing the beautiful game in the back and expected to be praised for it.

Man Utd has become the baddy in Gladiator - if victory comes with us selling our footballing soul then you can keep it thanks.

20 May 2018 10:57:53
I actually agree with Mourinho. If we had played the way Chelsea did we would have been panned for parking the bus. Chelsea played in a Mourinho style: scored a goal and then defended with 9 people behind the ball. Despite that, after a cagey first half when as expected no one wanted to give away an opening, we created enough opportunities to equalize, but we squandered them all. Pogba's miss was symptomatic of our problems and our season - a failure for our top players to step up at crucial moments. It was like watching many of our games against lowly opposition, but the dullness is at least as much to do with the opposition's tactics as our approach.

We obviously need to improve our ability to weave our way around opponents who are committed to playing not to lose, and better full backs would seem to be the obvious area to concentrate on, however Chelsea, despite their win, looked like a club more in need of an overhaul than us, especially if they lose Hazard, whose performance along with Jones's misread of the pass that led to the penalty, gave them the victory they hardly deserved.

20 May 2018 11:41:49
One of the worst cup finals I’ve seen in years but met my expectations as it was played by two very defensive and pragmatic sides (that’s a long winded way of saying boring)

20 May 2018 14:17:05
Chelsea played the Jose way he instilled that in them.

20 May 2018 15:39:36
No one criticizes good defending past Italian teams over the last few decades or even current ones. Since when has this defending in numbers and protecting a scoreline been something that Mourinho has created? The whole parking the bus thing has been going on for years. People love to drag people down in this country.

20 May 2018 18:55:23
In our treble year we played Forest away. We blew them away and were 4-1 up when SAF took off Yorke and Cole. Ole came on and scored 4 in about 20 minutes, no closing up shop or deciding 4-1 was good enough. Roma at home was one of the best halves of football I have seen. We played then like Liverpool are playing now. The best form of defence is attack, this continental approach of defending a lead is tiresome. Yes teams need to use commmon sense but I want to be excited, I want to jump out of my seat, I want to die trying.

20 May 2018 09:00:03
Right I didn't post yesterday because I was too gutted, I don't feel much better today tbh.

I've watched some of the most turgid garbage I've ever seen as a united fan this season and on the whole I've put up with it because jose wins.

I've seen players completely hung out to dry by the manager and I've put up with it because jose wins.

I've watched us fail to achieve over and over again in easy games and I've put up with it because in the end jose wins.

Well jose you didn't win mate you ****ed it right up then again refuse to show any class in defeat and proceed to throw arguably our most comited performer.

20 May 2018 11:45:13
Players meltdown and revolt by December If this carries on. I really don’t see how much worse it could have got if we didn’t just give the job to Giggs a few years back, a guy who lived and breathed the ckub’s ethos and wasn’t being groomed by Fergie until time caught up with him and he retired. Might have seen a few goals and some fun at least.

20 May 2018 08:22:50
Many fans are slagging on Jones, he of course made a bad decision and was very reckless.

However - almost everyone is critical of Herrera spending the first half man marking Hazard, everyone think about that for a minute!

Where was Herrera when Jones was in splendid isolation?

There was a hell of a lot wrong yesterday, one bad mistake shouldn't dictate the result in a game like that, there was plenty of time to correct matters. We created next to nothing all game, first half was as bad as the previous games, so we were not prepared for the cup final, we weren't taking it easy in those games to save ourselves for the cup final at all. That was a typical Utd performance - so there was no grand plan behind the Brighton, West Ham, Arsenal, West Brom games - that was what we have been getting as its the best the manager can have the players playing at the minute.

2nd half we upped it a bit and played with a little more attacking intent, but we were 1-0 down against a Chelsea offering nothing going forward - impossible not to look more attacking in those circumstances.

I have been very critical of Pogba but I thought he was our standout player yesterday. Off the ball he was always telling our players to pass it forward, he was often free for the forward pass, but Matic, Herrera, Young and Valencia would cut back and play the ball back to the CB's rather than looking for him. I watched him off the ball slamming into many of our players including Sanchez for being negative. He wanted to take the game by the scruff of the neck, he tried to play positive football - but the rest of the lads seem indoctrinated into playing the pass you see and keep it safe. Pogba is a showboater with little end product, but yesterday he showed me he had the right idea and I hope this positive attitude and drive continues.

Many of us knew the performance to expect and it came to fruition. We were the better team, but had we scored first I would have expected the exact reverse to happen that 2nd half, with us clinging on and Chelsea offering a tiny bit more going forward.

Shame for Jones as he will be picked apart, but on the whole he and Smalling kept an in form Giroud very quiet, Hazard whilst looking lively was ineffective aside from the goal and we coped well with the woeful attacking intent of Chelsea.

Kante was the best player on the pitch yet again - surely worth going for with them not in the CL. A performance that summed up our season in 90 minutes. Roll on 15 months time.

20 May 2018 08:52:55
Good post beast. I agree on pogba thought he was the leader yesterday on the pitch. Have to disagree on matic thought he was our best player yesterday and the rest of the team was very poor. Jose got team selection and tactics so wrong yesterday. Probably should have gone with 3 at the back and played to up top because rashford has been struggling whilst up top alone. Him and martial would have caused far more problems for Chelsea. Kante was everywhere yesterday as always and he is one hell of a player.

20 May 2018 09:00:02
Beast, you say we weren't prepared for the game and that we played exactly the same as we have all season.

I have a different take on it, we were prepared and we played exactly how Jose wanted us to play.

Jose has had two years with these players, training them to play the way he wants every day. He has bought in 8 players spending over 250m while selling many of the players he doesn't rate as good enough.

The reason we lost yesterday was because the way Jose wants to play. He wants to shut teams down, limit chances and nick a goal. He uses players who are physically superior to his opponent and hopes to out fight them with pace and power. While stifling the life out of the game.

That is how we try to play. In effect Jose's style of play is if not identical at least very similar to that of Pulis, Allardyce and Warnock. He is just better at getting results.

We don't play football, we play anti-football. 6 of his 8 signings have been over 6'2. Out of the two who weren't one of them (Mkhitaryan) has been sold already. People talk about Jose clearing the deck of players who are not good enough bought by previous managers, well he has had to do it for one he himself has signed. And he sold Mkhitaryan before the likes of Darmian, Blind, Rojo and Fellaini (who Jose actually really rates) .

Think about that for a second, Jose rates Fellaini. Think of other managers who rate Fellaini and they style of football they want to play and you soon realise that we ARE playing the style Jose wants. There is no it will get better next season when Jose signs another 4 players. The only thing that will change is we will get better at playing this anti-football style that Jose plays because he wants to play that way.

This isn't the Manchester United I grew up with and fell in love with. This is a rich man's Stoke.

20 May 2018 09:31:20
Good post that beast .
Shappy it's also a good point, people can't accept the fact that some of players they don't rate Jose does .

But that hurts the Jose can do no wrong argument .
By the way Jose said he was very happy with the game yesterday.

20 May 2018 14:20:03
Shappy - no mate wrong end of the stick. When we were playing dross in games of late 'defenders' of Jose were saying it was because they were preparing for the final - but it wasn't that they were preparing it was that is how they play (that is the point I was making)! I was basically calling out the people trying to explain away the bad games as it was leading to an expected better overall performance in the final, I knew this was BS and was saying as much ad-nauseum on this website for weeks.

Those people will likely be saying yesterday wasn't good enough, but were content with the recent performances, in short they were wrong!

I know this is how Jose plays, I've been calling it for a lot longer than almost everybody on here, asking for his head after around 10 games as I realised we had hired the Jose of recent Chelsea failure - the broken man!

I appreciate you have come on the Anti-Jose bus of late, but don't think you are the guy driving it mate, welcome on board and I'm glad you are seeing what I do and more and more people are jumping on board.

The man is not right for the club, neither was LVG and that was easy to tell after a few games. I'm not up for constantly changing managers, but if they are the wrong hire and it's easy to tell, then things need to change or we just keep plodding into the wilderness. Our fans want to be loyal and back people represented with the club, this is taken advantage of - sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

We were a lucky 2nd this season, that has papered over a lot of cracks and why we renewed his contract in the winter coming out of some truly horrific performances just adds to my frustration! If we stick with him this summer then it will be more of the same, allowing our competitors to get even stronger before we re-commence another stage of 'transition' I hate the wasted time.

20 May 2018 18:27:50
Beast, I was against Jose from the start. I never wanted him and always thought he was the wrong choice.

However, I was prepared to give him a chance. Support him because supporting the club is in my nature.

I've just can't do it anymore, Jose and his style of play has worn my good natured support down.

I don't care who is driving the bus. I just can't stand where he's taking our club anymore.

20 May 2018 05:51:53
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 20th May 2018

20 May 2018 07:07:31
As usual always nice to read the review though it leaves a bitter taste on the last story. Too frustrated to even sleep last night. Damn.
I think Jose should just keep quiet, accept the defeat and move on. Don’t even need to give excuses and open himself to criticism. Get a short break and start planning his next season strategy. He will need a seriously do well else he will be rubbish upon big time. I still back him simply because he is ManUtd’s manager but that doesn’t mean he is doing it right or invincible. No one is bigger than the club: not any player not even the manager. He really has to reflect during the break and get the confidence of the supporters back. More importantly the confidence of the players.
I urge the club to support him with the key purchases but should not hold back if he does not perform. My patience will be tested tbh. We are seriously lacking in defense and a few aging players need to be replaced even though they have served us well. Valencia and Young need to be backup rather than first team. Although Smalling did well he is not the ManUtd first team de facto. We also need to get rid of the various few who are not showing passion and hunger and also who are just hitch hikers. I’d rather a young and aggressive team than a lethargic senior team. We really need to change.
Five years years without a title is too long. No point being the biggest club in the world but not challenging the title let alone winning it.
There, I’ve said my peace and will stay away from football for 3 months (but not this site) . Have a great break everyone.

{Ed001's Note - I did think it sounded like he was deflecting, as that was not the issue at all and he did not need to throw Lukaku under the bus like that.}

20 May 2018 08:54:48
He did not need to ed001 but if after a loss a utd player isn't some how made a scapegoat for the loss how exactly would we know that jose mourinho is our manager. A trophy less season after spending the money he has, playing atrocious football. The 3rd season meltdown can't come soon enough.

{Ed001's Note - I just don't get him, it would have been so much easier to just say he wasn't fit enough to play, rather than say what he did.}

20 May 2018 09:25:23
Ed001 You are thinking like a rational man, it makes sense to just accept defeat and move on to you but mourinho isn't you and me, he is turning into a Wenger/ Lvg version of himself and everything is somebody else's fault and if there is no one to blame then he is afraid he will get the blame and that is something mourinho can't abide by.

{Ed001's Note - you would think with an ego that size that it is all about him. Odd that big egos only think it is all about themselves when things go well.}

20 May 2018 09:32:46
Done exactly the same with Jones and smalling last year and people backed him.

{Ed001's Note - true.}

20 May 2018 09:39:47
Exactly Ed. Sometimes the lesser said the better. Saying more doesn’t make you smarter. He should just keep quiet.

{Ed001's Note - that is something we all tend to struggle with though. That tendency to just say more than we should. Pride makes us respond when we should just walk away.}

20 May 2018 11:53:00
Pride sometimes coupled with stupidity 🤣🤣.

20 May 2018 00:28:03
I watched the game again,
We all know Jose likes big strong players.
That little kante is as good a player that's in the premiership.
I would go all out for him if I had anything to do with man United transfers.