15 Dec 2019 19:32:54
Another frustrating afternoon as a United supporter. However, looking at the game in isolation we had 24 shots to Everton's 8, we were a wasteful with some very good chances. While I'm still shocked and at a loss as to how VAR didn't overturn their goal. Although I agree DDG needs to be stronger in those situations Calvert-Lewin had his hand in DDG face. How on earth they can say that isn't a foul.
I would love to hear from someone who knows the laws of the game better than myself who can explain how putting your hand into the face of a goalkeeper when challenging for the ball isn't a foul.
However, this game isn't bin isolation. This is a repeating pattern.
While it's clear we struggle to break teams down that sit deep. I think we need more than just a creative No.10.
A creative No.10 will still need to players in front of him to make clever runs, and a centre forward who can make half a space for himself or a team mate.
Even the best No.10 is only as good as the options he has to make a pass to.
We know what we will be up against when we play teams like this. Although we have a weak squad we need to learn how to get a result out of games where we will face a low block.
I actually think there are lots of positives from the game. We tried, we created enough chances to win the game. Greenwood is really starting to knock on the door now.
But we need to start winning these games.
15 Dec 2019 20:43:01
Everton looked liked they wanted it more. Until we sort out our midfield this is going to keep happening. I still only think McTominay is a squad player. Yes he has improved massively but to some on here he’s the new Keane and Robson all rolled into one, not fit to lace there boots. Lingard and Martial need to be shipped out. We need a centre half 2 cm’s and a number 10 along with a right winger and another striker. That will take up to 3 transfer windows to address.
15 Dec 2019 21:21:32
In order to fix anything you can not only look for the positives shappy.
That's not looking at things objectively.
Your right we all know we don't have a no10 or the striker movement to unlock those teams that sit deep.
A different tactical approach is obviously required. Surely we can't just play the same system when we don't have the players to be effective. Its his job to figure this out but it just more of the same expecting a different result.
Why not try 442 stretch the play?
Or at least try to do something different.
If we don't have a player that can play the position then change the system or switch it during the game.
15 Dec 2019 21:50:10
Tend to agree Ken - sure we need better players, but we have one style of play and one formation and OGS and staff should be able to mix it up and try something else.
15 Dec 2019 21:51:38
Ken
I agree
We set up the same as last week, why when we are at home? Then when it isn’t working we stay the same. For me if OGS is staying then he needs a better number two who can vary things tactically. We were predictable, when space is restricted because the opposition sit differently we do the same things. Martial was useless, but we keep on the same path.
15 Dec 2019 21:51:39
We play the same system and tactics each game. Great against the bigger teams as they are more expansive and come forward, allowing us to play on the counter attack and our front 4 to get in behind and make them pay.
But when we come up against teams who soak up pressure and sit back, we are unable to break them down. That comes from the management and their tactical ineptness.
This will go around and around until this club starts to get serious. DOF and a proper coaching staff.
15 Dec 2019 22:36:39
Shappy - When you play teams that play a low block you have to move the ball quickly, have players that are prepared to run forward and make unselfish runs to create space. The defenders must show bravery on the ball and step into the space. The full backs must be prepared to overlap and run with the ball. You must play with an urgency and intensity to your game. You must suffocate the opposition and not them them breathe. You must have the ability to sustain attacks and be relentless in your approach.
I have come to the opinion that some of these players don't have the appetite or hunger to win these games. They don't work hard enough, they don't make enough runs off the ball, they don't concentrate, they treat these games as a day off and believe they can win without playing with the required work rate or intensity which they show against the better teams.
Some players have shown this attitude under different managers and been called out about it on several occasions. Now is the time for them to step up or be shown the door. Today was more about attitude than a lack of quality.
15 Dec 2019 22:37:19
Lets face it spurs left acres of space to exploit so did city so too did norwich because they came to have a go.
We caught sheff u as they were either too tired or too cocky to shut up shop and kept attacking.
15 Dec 2019 23:03:40
We created 3 huge chances in the first 20 minutes and should have scored them all, not being clinical isn’t anything to do with a ‘low block’. We missed too many chances, they scored a goal they shouldn’t have and then we missed more chances until we eventually got what we deserved. Should have won but we didn’t, unbeaten at home since August still, not far off top 4, disappointing but hardly the end of the bloody world.
15 Dec 2019 23:27:01
If we have a genuinely creative attacking midfielder or two then our attackers will make incisive runs knowing they will be found. At the moment they probably feel it is a waste of time to do so. We cannot always rely on our attackers to make something out of nothing. Also James Rashford and Greenwood are v. young. Most top strikers and midfielders hit their peak around 26. We don't have anyone apart from Lingard in that sort of age group in an offensive position. Let's see what happens in the January transfer window.
16 Dec 2019 00:46:03
Add Haaland, Erikson and maybe Sancho to the they squad and we will see big improvements.
16 Dec 2019 03:31:48
GDS, the world is round and there is no end to it. Within the week we travelled the world by beating Spurs, City and AZ and finished the entire circle by dropping points to a team that was 16th. Back to square one. We go again. But with him, we are 1 step forward and 2 backwards.
16 Dec 2019 04:24:27
Yes GDS2, We are not being clinical in front of goal too.
We should have finished off the game in the first 15 minutes.
We are also lacking a hungry striker who can meet the crosses and hold up the play.
Giggs summed it up perfectly, "Martial is just lethargic".
16 Dec 2019 05:03:16
UTD Road, i would not go for Haaland as we already have Greenwood, would rather buy an experienced striker like Cavani. This will leave plenty of room for Greenwood to improve. Our main focus should be creativity in midfield.
As for yesterday's performance shaw was a big let down and so was DDG, he he moved is head away before Calvert's hand came in like he was afraid to get hit. This season we have leaked in too many goals just because our defenders are inept while dealing with arial balls. 3 our of 4 are uncomfortable while heading the ball out of danger.
As for our attack, Martial goes missing in such games and Lingard just doesn't have the quality to create anything against teams that sit deep. Also Ole again has no plan when it comes to breaking defenses.
16 Dec 2019 08:10:53
Gds2 i don't think anybody is suggesting its the end of the world. We were not good yesterday i think some like myself are very frustrated by the jeckyl and hyde type performances.
No urgency and very little quality.
All teams miss chances.
We missed 2 good ones on the first 20 mins and did very little for the rest of the match except the usual huffing and puffing trying the same things the same way.
I can't understand why ole dues not try to mix it up a bit and at least try something different.
16 Dec 2019 08:46:21
It comes back to the same problems. Brilliant on the counter but struggle to break down teams who sit with men behind the ball.
We don't have anyone good enough to play no.10 who has the whole package. Lingard makes runs but lacks quality on the ball. Mata can play the pass but slows us down in transition. Andreas unfortunately not the answer. The other thing is movement from Martial. I never understand why he always looks for the ball into feet. He has pace to burn and never looks to hang on the last shoulder and score the kind of goals Vardy does. He has the ability no doubt.
Lindelof could do with a rest too imo. Give Axel a run out.
Ole has come out and said Haaland knows where he is going in Jan. So hopefully its to Old Trafford. He will enable us to attack in a different style. Hopefully add an Eriksen or Bruno Fernandes to knit it all together.
Ole is hampered with the players he has. i'm not sure just changing a formation is the answer. Its down to the mentality of the players too. They have to take responsibility and work things out for themselves on the pitch when its obvious things arn't working and a lot of that is down to experience.
A draw is not the end if the world. Everton are on the Ferguson bounce and it was a foul all day long on DDG.
16 Dec 2019 08:46:32
Personally, I think it is the lack of movement from our strikers and especially Martial that is the problem. It is very difficult for even Xavi at his best to pick ridiculous passes, unless the strikers in front are making runs. Watch Messi, Aguero, they are forever running across the two central defenders before darting to receive the pass. Unfortunately, Martial is incredibly lazy and he simply does not make these runs. If we want to break these low defensive lines, then a player like Martinez from Inter might be the right choice. He's quick, nimble, unselfish in the way he makes runs to create space, and he's incredibly strong for a small player. The new Aguero. He'll be my choice.
16 Dec 2019 09:23:39
For me Ole seems like a great manager when it comes to getting our players on side and motivated. They all praise him and they all seem happy to work hard for him. Where he isn't good enough is tactical acumen. Our style is very simplistic and lacks tactical depth and variability.
In many ways the same things had been said about Sir Alex, great motivator, but didn't have the tactical acumen at the highest level, this was always put forward as why Sir Alex didn't win as much in Europe as he should have done.
However, Ole is no Sir Alex. That said, he could learn valuable lessons from his former manager. Sir Alex knew his limitations, and as such he sought young hungry and tactically astute assistant managers, who he would then give a certain amount of freedom on the training pitch to implement their ideas. Carlos Quieroz being the most successful of those.
Unfortunately Phelan was probably Sir Alex's poorest assistant, while McKenna and Carrick are highly rated, neither have coached at the highest level.
If Ole is to succeed he will need better more tactically astute coaches and assistants around him to make up for his weaknesses.
DLIB, There are many ways to skin a cat. The high energy, constant running approach is one way (it works for Klopp), yet it isn't the only way to beat a low block. Controlling the tempo, varying the play, changing the types of runs our forwards make maybe horizontal across the goal rather than vertical toward the byline. Understanding your opponents weaknesses, and how to exploit them.
Yesterday for example Everton played with two up front, a strong physical player in Calvert-Lewin and a pacy runner in Richarlison, nothing new, a big man small man striker partnership.
Yet, Richarlison targeted Maguire and often pulled off into his space targeting our least mobile centre back, while Calvert-Lewin often moved into the space Lindelof was defending. So our least physical centre back was up against their most physical forward.
Again hardly rocket science, or reinventing the wheel. But it was effective. Everton caused us far more problems than they should just by giving two of their players a simple tactic to follow.
It is the lack of variation to our play that is the most concerning thing, and the thing that puts a little worry in the back of my mind about signing new players. New players won't fix anything if they are asked to play the same way as our current players. Which asks the question, which came first the chicken or the egg?
Do we play this way because we lack the players to play in a different way, or is this the only way our current coaching staff know/ want to set us up to play?
16 Dec 2019 12:57:06
Sorry Shappy, just have to do this. Ole and Great Manager cannot come in a single statement unless you are using the word "not" in there somewhere. If he were capable to getting them motivated, he should be able to do it for most games and not just the games where they feel like. We have no doubt been good against the top 5 but what defines us right now is our form and motivation levels against the other 14 teams. Not good enough.
16 Dec 2019 13:15:37
Shan, I don't see a lack of work rate or desire against any side. Our players are working hard and fighting for chances. Unfortunately tactically we are one dimensional and lack the game plan to beat the sides that sit deep.
I would also say that confidence and inconsistency has affected us more than you'd expect. However, when you consider the average age of our side it becomes clear that we are going to be more susceptible to inconsistency and drops and peaks in confidence.
We lack the experienced players to guide our younger players.
I said Ole SEEMS like a great manager from a motivational point as all the players say good things about him even when the side is struggling. The players seem like they are trying hard and are motivated.
So from that perspective he is doing a good job, he has changed the culture and the atmosphere around the club. Whether he has the tactical acumen or the foresight to understand his own weaknesses and do something about it remains to be seen.
16 Dec 2019 13:33:00
That's because some of these players know when ole gets the boot so will they. Nobody else will pick them.
16 Dec 2019 14:15:46
Like who ken? Young and Lingard who were regulars under both LvG and Mourinho both UCL winning managers.
The only one I would say doesn't look like he's giving 100% is Martial, but then I'm not sure if that is indicative of his actual effort or due to his languid playing style. Yet the only real other viable option to Martial is Greenwood.
For Sir Alex you didn't play unless you worked hard, it was a minimum expectation. Sir Alex regularly played Berbatov over Tevez. So, playing in a less than frantic way didn't seem to effect Sir Alex's perception of work work rate.
16 Dec 2019 15:22:50
No shappy they are all giving 100% but lingard young fred martial shaw all love ole i'm sure. probably because they won't be in the team if ole goes.
Imo they are nowhere near good enough to play for a team competing to win titles. But if ole stays we won't be competing to win the league so they will be good enough.
16 Dec 2019 16:26:09
Ken, they all played regularly under our previous managers bar Fred who was only part of the United squad for 18 league games under Mourinho.
But then who do you envision a new manager playing ahead of Fred currently? Pogba isn't fit, Matic is passed it. So Andreas Pereira?
I agree none are good enough to be regular starters for a top side. Fortunately for them a new manager won't arrive with 18 new players, so some of them will get a chance to play under our next manager.
